The “Limited Government” Laughingstock
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43 responses to “The “Limited Government” Laughingstock”
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Probably one of the most germane points in this excellent editorial is the simple fact that governments in other countries act on behalf of their citizens in trade and in all manner of things not the least to get the private sector out of health care so that businesses both large an small can better compete.
When Ford Europe sells a car, it competes straight up against Toyota – and in doing so is a fierce competitor – not just in Europe but in South America, Australia and getting a foot hold in Asia.
When Ford USA produces the same exact car – it has over $1000 in embedded health care costs – hard-bargained for by the unions – whom the conservatives in this country then blame for the lack of competitiveness.
The lack of competitiveness is not the unions – but our embedded health care costs that are twice as much as any other industrialized country.
A DOUBLE WHAMMY that kills our ability to compete on the world market and ENCOURAGES capital to leave this country and go to investments in other countries.
We can continue to listen to the right wing blather about getting govt out of our lives and the dumber among us can continue to believe that the US worker can compete better without govt but the facts argue otherwise.
we can continue to labor under the illusion that pure capitalism is the best economic system in the world – but China is going to whip our hiney's if we keep up this foolishness.
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Has anyone ever figure out that while the right wing says that govt needs to get out of our lives – at the same time we expect them to "create" jobs?
What is one of the benchmarks of a Governor in Virginia?
to "create" jobs – right?
why..if we think govt should get out of our lives – it does not include jobs?
are we supposed to be reliant on the capitalistic economy or not?
Why do we simultaneously want the govt out of our lives and blame the govt for letting jobs be outsourced?
I'm starting to think the righties in this country all suffer from split-personalities.
They want the govt out of their lives until of course they need it and want it in their lives.
The whole thing has taken on the dimensions of revival tent religion as Gooze correctly recognizes.
fire and brimstone… REPENT or really bad stuff will happen to us.. HORRORs… we'll end up like Europe … where folks pay 1/2 as much for health care, they are ALL covered and they live longer than we do….
but YE GOD – they are SOCIALIST and that's just one whiff shy of being a really gooey Marxist poop apparently…
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It is hard to argue with Mr. Gooze's perspective.
Larry G. is finding his voice.
Good jobs by both.
If one wants real laughingstock material, read the Elephant Clans 'pledge'. Even Hon. Mr. Bacon sees that comic book for what it is worth.
If one wants a concrete example of how a capitalist econmomy with a communist heart works see "China wielding power with 'rare earths.' in the Friday Wash Post.
One would hope that the Anger of Ignorance Tea Poters would be the first to suffer…
CJC
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If you are looking for an insightful look at the trap the Tea Pot types have fallen into, see Daniel Bells' 1976 book "The Cultural Contridictions of Capatilsm."
Freedom works?
Observer
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"Why do we simultaneously want the govt out of our lives and blame the govt for letting jobs be outsourced?"
Maybe because it was politicians who signed NAFTA, WTO and other trade concessions? The people said no then but it didn't matter. When the bottom fell out, the politicians once again fell in line with the corporations instead of the people. Now the politicians are the ones afraid of getting outsourced.
"HORRORs… we'll end up like Europe … where folks pay 1/2 as much for health care, they are ALL covered and they live longer than we do."
And they are quicker on the trigger to go to the streets when the politicians propose to cut the other social benefits that over half their paycheck went to. Now there is a brewing European tea party movement that basically says they want their money back for non-delivered services. This should go over well with the Germans who have been bankrolling most of the EU debt.
Frankly I'd be more concerned with the ongoing spat between China and Japan. These stupid little islands would make an ideal military site north of Taiwan. And if Japan backed down, it would embolden China to try another island, say the sparsely populated Yonaguni only 70 miles east of Taiwan. If the Chinese get crazy with super power ambitions, our mutual defense treaty with Japan could get us caught in the middle, playing the role of a declining Britain in 1939.
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I'm still wondering why the unemployment is blamed on the Govt if we say that Govt is the problem.
And in Virginia, when govt tries to get out of the military business – it was SACRILEGE !
How DARE the Govt START WITH VA to downsize, eh?
I just think people are pretty confused about this sometimes these days.
They blame the government for doing too much – at the same time they're blaming them for not doing enough.
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Either way government is going to downsize. They aren't going to have a choice. Calif. is looking for a pay day loan. Many other states are on the brink. Our foreign policy is being bankrupted by foreign debt problems. Heck, Norfolk just came out with next year's budget that is 44 million short. They still haven't figured out how to pay this year's light rail over runs much less higher transit operating costs. This whole boomergedon thing is going to happen sooner rather than later.
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I'm not sure that Japan has an economic track record we want to emulate. As for China… well, it looks like an economic superman now just like Japan did 20 years ago. We'll see how that works out over the next 10 years.
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I am in Japan right now. You people don't know what the hell you're talking about. Japan will be lucky to have four good economic years out of the last 20.
One sixth of the country lives in poverty.
If I espoused the same immigration laws for Virginia as are enshrined in Japan the libs wouldn't be able to scream racist loud enough.
The essential mental disorder of liberalism (i.e. self-hate) is on prominent display in this discussion.
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Groveton,
I assume Kaletsky doesn't know what he's talking about either.PG
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Peter:
Hop on a plane and fly over here. I'll be in Tokyo until Friday afternoon. This country is just plain full of Japanese people who can tell you how things work in Japan. I'll introduce you to as many Japanese as you want.
Or, you can read what a guy named Anatole who lives in Hong Kong writes in the New York Times.
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The govt model that is now being espoused for the US is a myth based on folks disconnected view of realities that are inherent in virtually every other industrialized economy in the world.
The model being espoused for us – for some – taken at face value would look like Yemen or Somolia rather than any in the G20.
In fact, if you would ask these folks to RANK the TOP 3 in the G20 in terms of capitalism – they'd not do it because they fundamentally don't agree with the realities of governance in the G20.
I'm never sure what the "self-hate" idiom is about.
It's almost if there is disagreement as to what the criteria of governance should be in the US and if one thinks self-governance in the G20 is not invalid and worthy of consideration – it automatically means that we hate Capitalistic America.
What are the criteria that would "prove" that a particular country' governance and economic model is "superior"?
It's certainly not intelligent in my view to simply claim that 20th century America is the correct model.
The 20th century is over with.
We're dealing with the 21st century – and talking about the 20th century has some serious Luddite aspects to it.
We used to be number 1 in education in the world.
We now rank no better than 15th – lower than most other industrialized nations.
We pay twice as much for health care as other countries yet they all have longer life expectancies.
They have nationwide rail systems. we have memories.
It's not self-hate to honestly appraise where we are and where we want to be as opposed to looking back and saying that's the right model.
The conditions for the previous model no longer exist.
We have to deal with the here and now.
and I'll finish with one question.
Rank the top 3 industrialized countries in the world in terms of LEAST DEBT.
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Name the top 3 agencies that you would cut to roll back to a more "limited govt".
I keep hearing that the govt is bloated, out of control spending and will enslave the next generation but I hear precious little from those who are saying this in terms of specifics.
And many who offer ideas – routinely do not understand that FICA is not Income Tax and that FICA revenues and FICA expenditures have NOTHING to do with the other 60% of the budget that is funded from Income and other kinds of taxes.
Social Security and Medicare are are not in deficit right now.
So what exactly is in deficit?
where are we spending "too much" money and need to slim down?
Like I said – when you ask for specifics – whether it is the Republican party, the Tea Pots, or the Right wing Blather Machine – specific are in the precious few category.
The Republican Minority Leader said on FAUX NEWS Sunday that the "specifics" will have to come after the elections because it is "complicated".
I cannot believe that we have folks out there that "buy" this.
They know what they don't like (or think they do) and they want Republicans back in charge – and they are willing to accept an unqualified "we'll tell you later" response to what we should be cutting.
this is indeed a LaughingStock any way you cut it.
Oh.. and it's self-hate when you make this observation….
The Republican Party – our very own political Taliban…..
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He further states (and I truly agree with this) that "if market forces cannot do something as simple as financing home mortgages…"
Considering how much government interfered in the housing market, we don't know that a deregulated market cannot finance home purchases. We would have to give the market a chance to work before judging it not up to the task.
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The laughingstock is saying that the level of government intervention in Japan has been proven correct based on the US housing bubble.
The Japanese had a housing bubble that put the US to shame. And when it burst it burst worse than anything that has happened in the US.
Yet some want to say that if we just had a more interventionist government we wouldn't have housing bubbles. And they point to Japan as an example?!?!
That's what I mean by self-hate. America today has a lot of people who hate themseleves, hate America and love anything and everything that is the polar opposite of America. They glom onto odd ideas about government managing the economy as practiced in Japan but can't admit the epic fiasco which the government managed economy in Japan actually faced. And this was in the 1990s not the 1890s. Everybody remembers the lost decade in Japan – especially the Japanese.
So, I guess it's not the success of the Japanese governemnt's economic policy that matters – it's the idea that Japan is so different from America they must be right – because, for sure, America is wrong. Always. That's the self-hate philosophy of the left.
Take a long look at the economice of Japan and the US over the last 20 years. Then, tell me that the heavy handed Japanese government approach is clearly better. You can't do it. In fact, the US approach is almost certainly performing better over that period.
When dealing with the left you always have to ask, "Do they really believe that the Soviet/Chinese/French/Japanese/etc approach is better or do they just hate America?".
I think the liberal philosophy appeals to people who generally don't like themselves. And that self-hate manifests itself in both a hatred of America and a love of everywhere else.
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I don't think it is self-hate to look at other governments and other economies and to measure the performance and the outcomes.
Japan, for all of it's flaws, is one of the better economies in the world – number 3 if not mistaken.
Pointing this out is "self hate"?
ha ha ha
you can accentuate the negative in all matters but it does not replace the simple truth and that is that Japan is among the best economies in the world supplanted only by a handful of countries including the EU.
I do not think it is "liberal" to hold people's feet to the fire on the realities.
Remember, the Conservatives love to HATE California – which is the 8th largest economy in the world.
and what is "hating government" if not "self-hate" anyhow?
Conservatives now days are political Luddites who keep looking back at the "grandeur" of our past and refusing to deal with the realities of the here and now – among which is the simple fact the G20 have more govt than the countries who are not in the G20 – better economies, higher literacy and longer life expectancies.
Little old japan cleans the USA clock on life expectancy and academic achievement and yet all Groveton can do is blather about the flaws (that all countries do have).
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The truth is that if Japan was a governance and/or economic failure – that Groveton would not be there in the first place to issue his self-hating governance tomes.
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Larry, Top three agencies to dismantle:
– Department of Education
– Department of Agriculture
– Department of EnergyWe can start now and move toward a balanced budget, or we can wait 15 years for Boomergeddon and have the decision forced upon us to do it then.
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The flaw is not with Japan. The flaw is with the twisted logic which holds that Japan's interventionist government prevents economic fiascos while America's does not. Simply false.
If interventionist government made great economies then the Soviet Union or Cuba or Venezuela would be ahead of both the US and Japan. But they aren't.
Even Jumpin' Joe Biden is getting tired of the self hate (which he calls whining) …
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Jim -thank you for stepping up!
This entitles you to go on to the next round.
What is the total budget of these 3 agencies and what percentage of the annual deficits do they hold?
I get 225 billion. What is our annual deficit?
I get about a trillion not counting the TARP & Stimulus.
agree?
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"self hate" = hatred of our own Federal Government?
How come the most intrusive and interventionist of the G20 – China is beating the socks off the most Capitalistic country?
is it "self hate" to point this out and ask for some explanation about why this is the case when Capitalism is said to be the superior economy?
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Larry, Of course, eliminating those three departments would save only a fraction of the budget. That's why weenie, panty-waste proposals like those you find in the House Republican "Pledge to America" are a joke. They will barely budge us off the road to Boomergeddon.
When you get to the end of the book, you'll see how I propose closing the budget gap by some $860 billion a year without trashing Medicare, Medicaid and other entitlements. The GOP establishment is not up to the job.
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Groveton,
I would love to go to Tokyo this week. I have good friends there. But I have to work. So I guess I'll have to believe some guy name Anatoly.PG
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Jim Bacon – you are an honest man.
I don't claim the Dems have the answers but now I know that both you and I know the Republicans are weenies and frauds.
🙂
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As Prof Risse said earlier this week:
"The core problem with the governance structure [in the US] is NOT that Agencies (“government”) are TOO BIG.
"The REAL problem is that Agencies at the nation-state, state and municipal scales … still reflect the economic, social and physical reality of the world in 1784, not 2010.
…
"The principle of governance (Agency structure) should be:
"Level of impact equals level of control.
"If there is impact at multiple levels they there must be shared responsibility, NOT highest level controls.
"It is hard to implement this principle when … there is NO Agency to represent most of the components of human settlement."
Observer
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It could be in order to better align the the control & impact paradigm that we'll have to do some destructive prep work.
but I would not guarantee it.
Just look around at the current local governances and ask yourself if people trust them and that local leadership is truly about serving the population rather than using the controls of government to line the pockets of developers wanting infrastructure paid for by others.
TMT, a frequent poster here as well as Darrell and Hydra have all expressed disgust with their local governance …..
Groveton thinks part-time legislators in Richmond are a menace.
Well.. how about part time legislators at the local level?
Local level legislators who make big time policy decisions at the MPOs who determine where and when mobility infrastructure is built.
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Larry:
NOW you are coming to grips with the scope of, and difficulty of, Fundamental Transformation.
But what is the alternative.
The problem has been getting worse and worse for 200 year and most do not yet understand the need for Transformation.
Can Homo sapiens come to grips with their individual AND collective self interest or will the genes that got them to this point condem them to Collapse?
Right not it does not look good, especially when some of the best and brightest continue to throw rocks as empty pigeon holes and grasp at simple answers like:
Tax cuts,
Smaller government,
Bigger government, or
Higher taxes.
Observer
Observer.
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to a certain extent – bigger government is driven by demand for uniformity in standards and processes and laws.
govt is why you have an interstate highway system that pretty much walks and talks the same way no matter where it is.
there are thousands …millions of examples like this that affect your daily life that would be chaotic – and grossly unproductive without them.
we forget simple things like why do cell phones work no matter where you go?
how come we don't allow the localities to designate the operating frequencies for cell phones?
tell me how you'd do this system differently so that locals had control?
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"How come the most intrusive and interventionist of the G20 – China is beating the socks off the most Capitalistic country?"
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They have plenty of cheap labor. Starting from a low base, a little bit of incentive goes a long way.
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" there are thousands …millions of examples like this that affect your daily life that would be chaotic – and grossly unproductive without them."
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Even such a simple thing as time. Time used to be calculated from local apparent noon. with the result that every town had a slightly different "time".
The coming of Railrosds meant that time was now a life or death issue: at a certain time you had better be sitting on the siding so the experss could roar through.
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there is available cheap labor worldwide.
if that was the only criteria then capitalism would beat nation-state involvement in economics – every time.
there are millions of people in the world that would gladly work for a dollar an hour.
what makes China's "cheap labor" superior?
do you think it has anything to do with govt?
Can a nation-state be a capitalistic enterprise and compete well against independent individual capitalism?
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there is available cheap labor worldwide.
if that was the only criteria then capitalism would beat nation-state involvement in economics – every time.
there are millions of people in the world that would gladly work for a dollar an hour.
what makes China's "cheap labor" superior?
do you think it has anything to do with govt?
Can a nation-state be a capitalistic enterprise and compete well against independent individual capitalism?
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Just look around at the current local governances and ask yourself if people trust them and that local leadership is truly about serving the population rather than using the controls of government to line the pockets of developers wanting infrastructure paid for by others.
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I think that is a gross generalization.
My local government is trying to use the controls of government to line the pockets of already wealthy people by preventing development and guaranteeing them a large supply of cheap estates.
"My plan for your property is to have someone wealthy buy it so they can put it in a conservation easement and nothing will ever be built there"
Fauquier County Supervisor, Marshall District.
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The question was how come China is beating the pants off the US, not about the rest of the world.
With regard to China and the US, China has cheap labor and US does not. China has low environmental expenses (not low environmental costs) relative to the US. China had a much larger stimulus package than the US. And, for the average Chinese, economically up is a lot farther than economically down, so they have less risk aversion and more incentive.
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The Conservatives conventional wisdom – and the policies they advocate seem to be premised on the idea that the more unfettered by govt that capitalism is – the better.
China is proving that a nation-state can operate effectively as a capitalistic enterprise and the Conservatives are saying that this is "unfair" because govt should not be "helping" capitalism.
The idea of govt engaging in capitalistic behavior also calls into question how a country can be "socialist" and "capitalist" at the same time.
In other words – the country is engaging in capitalistic behavior to benefit it's citizens? some would say but more jobs and higher pay is a benefit to it's citizens.
By the way – the EU economy is ranked right up there with the US and China and Japan and it has some of the strongest environmental regs in the world.
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In other words – can a nation be a "nanny state" by engaging in capitalism on the world markets – as a way to provide for it's people?
what makes non-nation-state capitalism virtuous?
Isn't Bob McDonnells idea of "privatizing" the ABC but in the process – putting new taxes on alcohol – "nanny state" also since he wants the taxes to pay for citizens needs rather than let capitalism operate unfettered?
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By the way – the EU economy is ranked right up there with the US and China and Japan and it has much higher taxes, as well as strong environmental regs.
But, lets not get too carried away here. The European lifestyle is comfortable but considerably more modest than ours in many ways. As a woman at the hotel remarked to me during a conversation, "I forgot, this is America, where you can get anything." She was talking about fresh seafood in Arizona, but the remark was telling.
For example, depending on whose list you follow, France earns about $5000 less in GDP per person than the US, and since thier taxes are higher as well, that has to have an effect on how you live and save.
Lower overall earnings meand lower overall savings and that means that government pensions are even more important.
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but the Europeans live very well compared to most of the world – including Asia and most of them do not die for a lack of timely health care and overall they live longer than we do.
Worse things could befall folks.
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Yesterday mrning my office mate came in to the ofice with a glass of orange juice, and he was immediately distracted by phone calls and visitors.
While he was distracted, I picked up the orange juice and walked out with it, and parked it near the copier.
Some time went by and I was in and out of the office several times. Eventually he cleared his ofice of visitors and looked or his orange juice. When I walked in he was in a state of great perplexion.
From his reality he KNEW that orange juice had to be there even theough the evidence of a casual glance proved otherwise. He even looked in his desk drawer and the wastebasket for it!
We had a good laugh when I told him what Ii had done because we had, just the evening before, had a discussion about brains in a state of denial.
Some conservatives take certain things as an article of faith, and nothing cand convince them otherwise. Just as my friend KNEW that orange juice WAS there, HAD to be there, or else his reality was skewed, they KNOW that the Laffer curve maximum has to be at 15%. They KNOW that every single thing the government does is not only incompetent but corrupt, and beyond that it is a fundamental natural law that whatever government does is disruptive of private enterprise.
Like my friend with his orange juice, when all the evidence proves otherwise, they resort to looking in the garbage can for the remnants of their beliefs.
To be fair, this is a universal trait of how the mind works, and liberals have their own versions of the same craziness.
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overall they live longer than we do.
Worse things could befall folks.
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We like to think they work less and worry less, andlive more easily if not better.
But we also have the stereotypes of the screaming Italians, the bureaucratic French, the long-suffering Britons, and the ascetic Scots.
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From 1999 to 2008, employment at the foreign affiliates of US parent companies increased an astounding 30 percent to 10.1 million
http://www.businessinsider.com
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You think maybe other countries treat their companies better? You think they have less government interference in France?
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do the Europeans treat companies better?
I doubt it.
their environmental and product regs make us look like the wild wild west.
But what they do – do is those companies do not have health care costs – and in this country – that issue hangs heavy on employee costs.
My understanding is that companies over here won't hire even when they need help because of the "benefits' issue.
and if you are selling goods and services to the rest of the world – all those other countries that don't embed their health care costs in their products have a competitive advantage over our companies.
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Hydra,
I know what you mean about the OJ issue. When Jim Bacon and I worked together at Virginia Business magazine some years ago, the staff would do the same thing with his cup of coffee.
He come out mumbling "I must be losing my mind."
There were signs even that far back.PG
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