Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

Kaine Establishes Sub-Cabinet on Community Investment

—

by

James A. Bacon
in ,

Gov. Timothy M. Kaine has issued an executive order establishing a Sub-Cabinet on Community Investment tasked with the goal of promoting “smart, sustainable growth” by ensuring that state funds are invested in projects that reduce “suburban sprawl.”

“Virginia loses 165 acres every day to development, and while we welcome growth and economic success, it is paramount that we grow in a wise and sustainable way with an eye towards conservation,” said Kaine in a press release. “The Sub-Cabinet on Community Investment will prioritize the state’s investments to make sure we protect Virginia’s precious natural resources for present use and future needs.”

The Sub-Cabinet’s will destribute grants, loans, matching funds and other discretionary funds to “incentivize desirable growth.” The press release identified the following principles:

  • Invest in innovation
  • Invest in the use of existing infrastructure
  • Invest in compact development
  • Protect and restore Virginia’s natural resources
  • Conserve Virginia’s limited natural resources
  • Invest in diverse housing opportunities
  • Invest in alternative transportation choices
  • Take a long-term view to planning.

“The Commonwealth will seek to invest in projects that promote compact development, consume less land, conserve open space, and minimize the negative social, economic, and environmental consequences of sprawl,” stated the press release.

The Executive Order is an outgrowth of an internal policy summit, facilitated by the Governor’s Institute on Community Design, which recommended policies for sustainable growth and open space preservation in the Commonwealth. The Institute is chaired by former Maryland Governor Parris Glendening.

“States that have been successful in protecting their natural resources, developing vibrant communities and improving mobility for their citizens have done so by encouraging cross-departmental collaboration,” said Governor Glendening. “The array of issues states face in addressing the impacts of growth and development demand such coordination and I commend Governor Kaine for taking this important step.”

The Sub-Cabinet will be chaired by Secretary of Natural Resources L. Preston Bryant, and consist of Secretary of Administration Viola O. Baskerville, Secretary of Commerce and Trade Patrick O. Gottschalk, Secretary of Finance Jody M. Wagner, and Secretary of Transportation Pierce R. Homer.

Bacon’s bottom line: This sounds like a positive step in the right direction, although the devil is always in the details. One thing that appears to be missing from the list of state “tools” for discouraging sprawl is transportation funding. I haven’t had a chance to read the Executive Order yet, so I shall refrain from further comment.

Share this article

ADVERTISEMENT

(comments below)

ADVERTISEMENT

(comments below)

Comments

  1. Rodger Provo Avatar
    Rodger Provo

    Jim –

    Gov. Kaine should be commended for
    taking this step.

    Our future needs for growth to take place in the cities and older suburbs – we need to rebuild those areas.

    Arlington County and Norfolk are great case studies how this will benefit all of us.

    Virginia needs to join a national
    trend of building new light rail
    and street car systems in such areas to encourage this development
    pattern.

    Upgraded passenger rail services
    from Richmond to Washington, DC and
    from Bristol to Washington, DC are
    also needed.

    New development should take place along those corridors near train stations.

    High fuel costs and global warming
    will generate more public support
    for this agenda.

    Our failed highway system should
    cause us to move in this direction.

    The state needs to require the
    location of new employment centers closer to areas of affordable housing.

    Virginia needs a state planning
    department to facilitate these
    objectives.

    It needs to merge PDC’s and MPO’s to reflect our new growth patterns into a new form of region governments elected by
    the voters – similar to the Portland, Oregon metropolitan
    government.

    Such a leadership role by the state
    would insure a better Virginia.

  2. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Welcome Back!

    I mirror Rodgers sentiments with one caveat – the same one that Jim alludes to, i.e. devils and details.

    Give Kaine credit for something Gilmore and many Republicans apparently cannot conceive of.

    All the Republicans have offered so far is a study commission to figure out how to outlaw proffers and force locality to accept growth with mandatory impact fees that will not adequately fund the expensive facilities needed by growth.

    Many years ago, there was a fella name Tayloe Murphy who said that Virginia needed a Growth Commission to deal with these issues

    .. a state level perspective on land-use and transportation…

    … I note here also, that some folks, including Groveton, seem not happy with the idea of the State handling such chores (i.e. Dillon Rule).

    .. or perhaps Groveton can distinguish the differences…

    Finally, is this edging towards the “Fundamental Change” that EMR is advocating?

    What would be useful is for EMR to weigh in on this with respect to whether or not this is a step in the right direction – and if it is – then what would be some specific strategies for this group to consider.

  3. the widow shelton Avatar
    the widow shelton

    Does anyone realize how many study groups, commissions and miscellaneous consortiums and participations to which these sub-cabinet members already belong?

    Think about it. The devil isn’t in the details. It’s in the priorities.

  4. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    well.. not the priorities but the non-integrated nature of many different groups working on many different parts of the elephant, sometimes as cross-purposes.

    …Like the proffer study group…
    who so far.. seems to think one size fits all impact fees should apply no matter where…

    ..which is really dumb.. if you think about it… because if this is done wrong – it will affect where growth occurs and where it does not.. which, in turn, could drive the need for more highways to carry traffic to outlying jurisdictions willing to approve growth for impact fees and past the areas that will not accept growth because the fees won’t cover their expenses.

    If anything, the proffer study group.. and other groups should be consolidated and JLARC and the Auditor of Public Account and the Virginia Dept of Taxation also involved to answer the potential impacts of prospective decisions BEFORE they make decisions that will result in screw-ups…

    We are trying to grow Virginia using Agrarian policies and it’s screwing up the state… and accelerating the divide between our urbanizing areas and the rest of the state.

    It’s making enemies of adjacent localities instead of empowering them as regions.

    dumb.

  5. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    All development requires public and private infrastructure to support it. Overloading a community’s public facilities in the name of stopping sprawl is hardly a positive.

    WMATA’s massive mismanagement is hardly a sound endorsement for more of the same.

    The mission of this group should be to ensure that all growth, be it in urban areas, urbanizing areas, suburban areas or rural communities matches the underlying infrastructure and pays for itself from proffers, impact fees, and future increases in tax revenues.

    We also need transparency in the process. All contacts with this group or its members should be reduced to writing, placed in the public record and posted on the Internet.

    TMT

  6. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “ensure that all growth, ……pays for itself from proffers, impact fees, and future increases in tax revenues.”

    I can’t believe this is a sensible goal.

    This implies that existing residents get NO benefits from growth and shouldn’t contribute a dime towards it.

    RH

  7. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Kaine is on the right track but faces serious resistance from the “descendants of Pocohontas”. What is needed is a series of amendments to the Virginia Constitution to devolve some power formally to the localities. Anything else is absurd. Kaine will be gone from the governor’s post soon enough. He can’t run again (at least not right away). His thorughts are good but this needs more than good thoughts. Virginia is a state where the entrenched “political class” always wins over time. No promises can be relied upon (witness the Dulles Toll Rd tolls). Only formal change (with the appropriate legal wording in the Virginia Constitution) is useful.

    Virginia’s Constitution has been rewritten 6 times since it was originally authored. The most forward looking (and best) rewriting was done by Yankees after the Civil War. The “decendants of Pocohontas” un-did those advances in the tragic state constitutional convention of 1902. History provides little hope that the “decendants of Pocohontas” can do more than memorialize their bigotry and lack of imagination in any new constitution. Maybe the diversity of Northern Virginia, Tidewater and Charlottesville will be enough to “turn the tide” in this fundamentally backward state. Maybe.

  8. Accurate Avatar
    Accurate

    Oh the evils of sprawl – along the same lines (after all we terrible people who don’t like to live in tiny, cramped quarters) people have to drive (unless you like tiny, cramped quarters and LOVE nothing but concrete) – take a look at this video about a new car from Japan that they have running on WATER. Now if they just up-size it to a SUV …

    http://www.townhall.com/video/News/926788

  9. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “Virginia loses 165 acres every day to development, and while we welcome growth and economic success, it is paramount that we grow in a wise and sustainable way with an eye towards conservation,”

    Translation

    It is paramount that we limit growth and development in new areas to something less than 165 acres per day. Conservation and sustainability take priority over growth.

    Fine.

    How much less than 165 acres per day?

    When do we decide we have enough conservation?

    What, exactly, constitutes sustainable? One definition is that you not use any more energy than falls on the area you are using.

    How much are we willing to increase the costs of growth and conservation to achieve these goals?

    How will the costs be allocated?

    RH

  10. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Ray – what do residents of Fairfax County get from development? A more crowded community, a continued downward spiral for quality of life, higher taxes, and business community that constantly urges even higher taxes on everyone but themselves.

    TMT

  11. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “Our future needs for growth to take place in the cities and older suburbs – we need to rebuild those areas. “

    Can’t argue with that, but in my opinion they need a lot more green in them: higher local density and less average density.

    RH

  12. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “Virginia needs to join a national
    trend of building new light rail
    and street car systems in such areas to encourage this development
    pattern.”

    Nonsense. Let’s build what makes sense where it makes sense, instead of blindly investing in dogma.

    On the other hand, if we follow this advice, lets recognize that it is an outright subsidy to certain areas, and allocate the costs accordingly.

    RH

  13. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “Upgraded passenger rail services
    from Richmond to Washington, DC and
    from Bristol to Washington, DC are
    also needed. “

    What is needed is transportation that covers its own costs. Given the recent history of AMTRAK and highly subsidized European trains, the outlook for this idea isn’t very bright.

    However, I’m open to the idea that there are very large benefits in the form of externalities. But, if we think that Virginia needs more rail of all types, then we should be able to estimate reasonably unequivocably what those beneficial externalities are.

    To simply say that such huge investments in capital and ongoing subsidies “are needed” is pitifully insufficient.

    RH

  14. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “New development should take place along those corridors near train stations.”

    Why do we think this is OK, but if the same effect occurs concerning raodways, we think it is a terrible thing: a gift to developers and landowners?

    RH

  15. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “The state needs to require the
    location of new employment centers closer to areas of affordable housing.

    Virginia needs a state planning
    department to facilitate these
    objectives.”

    I don’t like the words “state needs to require”. Aside from it’s command and control implications, “requirements” don’t necssarily consider costs properly.

    Encourage or faclitate is a better word, but then you have to adopt the idea that you may need to pay for what you want. If you go that route, then you need to modify a full court press opposition to all subsidies as necessarily bad.

    RH

  16. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “similar to the Portland, Oregon metropolitan government.”

    Surely, you are joking.

    RH

  17. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    How about incentives to firms that encourage telecommuting….

    I think I heard that CapOne moved to a new building that was smaller than the old one, whereby not all staff could be at the office at the same time, instead, they had a rotation sort of thing going on such that each person came to the office say 4 days a week or some such thing. I’m fuzzy on the details as told to me some time ago, but I think it’s an interesting concept… less space needs, less use of transport infrastructure. I wonder at the benefits of a 3/2 split.

  18. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    So what we have here is a plan to spend billions building new rail systems, and rehabilitating places that did’t work last time around in order to conserve open space.

    Now, if you just conserve the open space, then rebuilding the urban areas will happen as a natural result, which is what the clear edge idea ia all about.

    Open space is suddenly becoming much more valuable to produce biomass and crops. It might be a lot less expensive to just go pay for what you really want, in this case conservation, by making the land more profitable to those who own it.

    If we think preserving it is that valuable, then we should be willing to contribute more to help thousands of small farm owners who are already supporting the farm with off farm income. Especially if the current situation is making it more valuable anyway.

    It might not take all that much, compared to all these other red herring projects, which amount to a bribe to people who don’t live in the countryside, and could probably care less about it.

    RH

  19. Tyler Craddock Avatar
    Tyler Craddock

    For the record, I do think that over time growth pays for itself; the trouble is that the revenue growth creates is siphoned off for other things.

    But, it is funny to me how most of the folks who disagree with my assertion and want growth to “pay for itself” (through more taxes on top of what it currently contributes) already live here. By the logic of their argument, existing growth has not “paid for itself.” Thus, these are folks who have not by their own estimation “paid their own way.” Yet, they do not seem to see the hypocrisy of asking someone else to do what they have not done.

  20. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “How about incentives to firms that encourage telecommuting….”

    State of Florida just passed abill to promote massive flextime – aiming for a four day 40 hour week, and more telecommuting.

    Works for me.

    RH

  21. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    re: “take a look at this video about a new car from Japan that they have running on WATER. Now if they just up-size it to a SUV …”

    …”transportation should pay for itself”

    .. “how does growth benefit existing residents”

    I have absolutely no problem with highways paying for themselves especially by those that choose to not live in dense, cramped areas and CHOOSE to drive further distance to get the size/kind of home they want to live in.

    but the folks that do that should not expect those those have chosen to NOT to that – their choices – to live nearer to where they work – either at a sacrifice of more density/traffic congestion (like NoVa) or.. in places like Fredericksburg where by not commuting they earn less money but also in doing so don’t necessitate more/bigger/wider highways.

    The folks who want to drive should be able to drive but they should bear the financial and commuting consequences of their decisions.

    and Ray.. folks who live somewhere do have the right to decide how much growth, where and when unless you think the Comp Plan process and zoning ordinances, and the power to rezone or deny – by elected officials – is wrong.

    No community should be forced to accept more and more growth no matter how much or how fast and then to also have their taxes increased – without limits to pay for it.

    And in case folks are not getting the drift here -that’s what the developers are up to by outlawing proffers and requiring mandatory one-size-fits-all impact fees no matter how much the required infrastructure will cost.

  22. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Tyler:

    Well said. It is precisely the argument I have tried to make, and no where near as succinctly.

    RH

  23. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    I’d go a little farther and suggest there is an additional hypocrisy in suggesting that those who have preserved their land the longest, and paid the most taxes for the least services over time – often decades or more, suddenly owe big proffers for being “allowed” to do what their neighbors have already done.

    RH

  24. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Accurate:

    I guarantee that car doesn’t run on water.

    RH

  25. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    “Ray – what do residents of Fairfax County get from development? A more crowded community, a continued downward spiral for quality of life, higher taxes, and business community that constantly urges even higher taxes on everyone but themselves.

    TMT”

    TMT – I am not a Ray but I play one on TV.

    Fairfax County gets the highest household income in the USA. This may not seem that impprtant to someone who has always been between the middle and the top of the economic curve. However, economic opportunity is everything to people who have little. I work with disadvantaged children in Anacostia in Washington, DC. In that regard I spend time with the people who lead the community in Anacostia. They would happily suffer through commuter traffic jams as the people of Anacostia travel “to and from” their high paying jobs.

    I wonder how people in Buffalo, NY would feel about putting up with traffic jams in order to get economic growth. I wonder what the people of Detroit would say if the US Government offered to move to that city. I wonder what the “descendants of Pocohontas” will do once they’ve killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.

    It’s a shame that people struggle to appreciate what they have until they lose it.

  26. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    I’d go a little farther and suggest there is an additional hypocrisy in suggesting that those who have preserved their land the longest, and paid the most taxes for the least services over time – often decades or more, suddenly owe big proffers for being “allowed” to do what their neighbors have already done.

    RH

  27. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Ray – I generally agree with your “dubiosity” regarding the water powered car. However, if this is a hoax, it is a good one:

    http://www.vcw.se/forum/visa.phtml?id=1&inlagg=6380978&livehearing=0&live=&ref=

  28. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “I have absolutely no problem with highways paying for themselves especially by those that choose to not live in dense, cramped areas and CHOOSE to drive further distance to get the size/kind of home they want to live in.”

    How does the first half of that sentence connect in any way to the last half?

    If the highways (or any other transportation) are going to pay for themselves then there is no point in targeting anyone special to make more of the payments.

    I think highways (and other transport) are linked to commerce and it should’nt be too hard to figure out which ones will pay and which ones won’t.

    But first we have to put aside all our feelings about what we like and approve of and what we don’t.

    Statements like the one above are divisive, discriminatory, and unhelpful in solving the problem at hand.

    We should not have to worry about why a particular person or group is on the road as long as, collectively, the activities the road is used for generate more taxes than it costs.

    That should not be too hard to figure out. But first you’d have to agree that it is a sufficient criteria, and drop all the other crappy arguments.

    RH

  29. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “The car has an energy generator that extracts hydrogen from water that is poured into the car’s tank. The generator then releases electrons that produce electric power to run the car.”

    This is not a hoax in the sense that the car does work. But the descriptions are an outright lie.

    It does not run solely on water.
    There is no such thing as an energy generator.

    If there is, EMR is going to have to go back to the drawing board.

    Such hoaxes get life because people want to believe we can get something for nothing.

    You can split the water to get hydrogen, and use the hydrogen to run a fuel cell or generator to create electricty to power the moters.

    But you must put energy in to split the water in the first place, and whatever source that is, is what the car “runs on”.

    RH

  30. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4277

    Next Monday, I leave for two weeks in Europe. I’ll be meeting with business and technology leaders in a variety of industries.

    I will be touting Fredricksburg and Henrico County as absolutely prime locations for foreign investments – especially by the French. I will explain that the leaders of these areas are tired of the nattering nabobs of negativism in NoVA and will do “just about anything” to find a new source of taxes so they can give NoVA the “bronx cheer” it so richly deserves. Of course, the French will have certain …. requirements ….

    Guns are out. Shouting vague irrational insults while driving is in.
    The popcorn shrimp at Popeye’s will be changed to deep fried escargot.
    Rt 3 will be renamed “Avenue de Trois”
    The statue of Stonewall Jackson will be replaced by a staute of François Mitterrand.

    Laissez les Bon Temps Rouler

  31. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    re:

    “But first we have to put aside all our feelings about what we like and approve of and what we don’t.

    Statements like the one above are divisive, discriminatory, and unhelpful in solving the problem at hand.”

    I have absolutely no approval or disapproval, likes or dislikes with respect to the choices that we all make – only that we pay for them and not expect others to.

    I don’t see this as any different than one who chooses to put 100,000 miles on a car in 3 years and assumes the cost of it.

    Someone who puts that same amount of mileage on a road should also expect to pay 100,000 miles worth of the costs required to provide them for that road.

    The question comes.. when new/wider/better roads are needed for the folks who commute.

    I do not consider daily rush-hour commuting …”commerce” which helps those who choose to not do that commute but are expected to pay for it.

    Ray has a very confused idea of what “commerce” is and who benefits from it and who should pay for it.

    He seems to be just fine with “taking” from those who do have chosen not to commute to help pay for the commute of others who have chosen to commute.

    He thinks we need to account for the “benefits” of this.

    I agree. Who benefits and who pays?

    How does the longer commute of some “benefit” those that have chosen to not commute?

  32. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Very interesting that you specifically brought up Anacostia Groveton

    Anacostia actually is more built out than Fairfax is yet it has a much lower standard of living

    This proves growth by itself doesn’t bring anything to an area.

    Its more a product of schools, low crime, and most importantly a community that actually cares about where they live. No amount of government spending or intervention can increase the third point. And no business in their right mind will move into an area until all three criteira are met no matter how much of a tax break a locality gives.

    NMM

  33. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “The folks who want to drive should be able to drive but they should bear the financial and commuting consequences of their decisions.”

    I think Bob would argue that they already do. The idea that they do not is a vicious lie being spread by those who actually have another agenda – conservation that THEY don’t want to have to pay for.

    The zoning and comp plan process is a way to a) get land conserved (for their benefit) that they don’t have to pay the costs for and b)protect the zoning laws with a comp plan that can’t be changed but every 20 years.

    Zoning was a good idea once, but its purpose has long since been subverted to promote all kinds of agendas from conservation, to history, to architecture, to tax districts and with no compensation for costs imposed.

    No community should be forced to accept more and more growth and then to also have their taxes increased – without limits to pay for it. But they do not have the right to impose cost, without limits, on one citizen, when those costs exceed those the community is trying to avoid.

    That isn’t zoning or good governance, that is stealing.

    The community has then not avoided any costs, but merely transferred them to one citizen, and under a system that allows him no real recourse.

    The supreme court yesterday had something to say about systems that allow no real recourse.

    RH

  34. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “I have absolutely no approval or disapproval, likes or dislikes with respect to the choices that we all make – only that we pay for them and not expect others to.”

    And yet you think that confiscatory zning is OK.

    RH

  35. E M Risse Avatar
    E M Risse

    “I mirror Rodgers sentiments with one caveat – the same one that Jim alludes to, i.e. devils and details.”

    It is more than details.

    Without a “Wright Plan” for the Commonwealth and a rational plan and strategy for evolving functional settlement patterns in the three New Urban Regions into which land in the Commonwealth falls Kaines plan is DOA, no matter how laudable the overarching sentiment.

    Then there is the issue of resouces devoted to the project… (noted above re the “Sub-Cabnet”)

    Furterh, at least half of the comments in this string underline the realtiy that without a Comprehensive Conceptual Framework, a robust, articulate Vocabulary and tools such as Regional Metrics, there is no chance of success.

    And finally as almost all the comments in this string attest, unless there is broad citizen understanding there will be no support for the actions that are needed.

    Other than that Mr. Clinton…

    EMR

    PS: Jim hope you got to Celebration.

  36. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “I do not consider daily rush-hour commuting …”commerce””

    It does not matter what you consider.

    The guy who is doing it has made a choice based on commercial decisions, and the road supports that commerce. He is engaged in the business of selling labor to lartge downtown businesses, and in order to do that profitably he keeps his overhead low by making the appropriate trade offs between the costs of driving and the costs of housing.

    That is the commerce that is being supported, and it is no different than anyone elses business when they go out on the road for any of their own purposes.

    If we are not taxing the commerce conducted enough to pay for the road, then that is our decision and no fault of his, or any consequence of his decision.

    What you have is a totally contrived argument designed to deflect costs from yourself in a vain attempt to get something for nothing.

    We simply cannot afford to do the accounting to keep track of every individual activity cost, we don’t need to, and if we had the slightest sense, we wouldn’t want to.

    But that doesn’t mean that at some reasonable aggregate level we should either absorb excess costs when we don’t need to, or avoid additional costs when we should not.

    As far as roads are concerned, a reasonable aggregate level is the commerce they support.

    What we cannot do is ignore costs at the individual level when we are concerned with community benefits, and then turn around and demand cost accounting at the individual level when it comes to community costs. That is both insconsistent and unethical.

    RH

    RH

  37. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    NMM:

    Well said, as usual.

    RH

  38. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    EMR – is the Kaine initiative not a start?

    if you take what he’s done and use it as a way to have further dialogs is it not a potential way to start to evolve from point a to point b?

    Is not.. then is his approach totally wrong?

    and if so.. what should he have done?

  39. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    re: “The guy who is doing it has made a choice based on commercial decisions, and the road supports that commerce. He is engaged in the business of selling labor to lartge downtown businesses, and in order to do that profitably he keeps his overhead low by making the appropriate trade offs between the costs of driving and the costs of housing.

    That is the commerce that is being supported, and it is no different than anyone elses business when they go out on the road for any of their own purposes.”

    you forgot two important things and that is Commerce has to incorporate the costs of doing business and it must make a profit…

    .. or else it’s not commerce but a parasite…that depends on subsidies – taxes taken from others – to survive.

    If someone needs to drive 100 miles a day for “commerce” then they should be paying for the costs that they incur in doing that “commerce” and not expecting others to.

    The person who pays gas taxes and lives and works locally is entitled for their taxes to be used on the roads that they travel in their “commerce”.

    Why do you favor the “commerce” of commuters over the “commerce” of non-commuters?

  40. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Anacostia –

    Technically, it’s a pretty small neighborhood in SE DC. Most people use a broader definition. They equate Anacostia with the SE quadrant of DC. Politically, that would be all of Ward 8 and most of Wards 6 & 7.

    Growth?

    Ward…..1980……1990……2000

    6……77,312….72,486….68,087
    7……92,841….79,098….70,539
    8……93,358….83,194….70,915

    Total.263,511…234,778…209,541

    So, the population of SE DC has fallen from 263,511 in 1980 to 209,541 in 2000.

    Meanwhile, in Fairfax County –

    1980 – 595,754
    1990 – 818,584
    2000 – 969,749

    So, it’s a bit of a challenge for me to see how Anacostia is “built up” and Fairfax County is not. I think a more accurate statement is that Anacostia – a high density, urban location with relatively (repeat, EMR, relatively) functional human development patterns is economically failing while Fairfax County – a mid density, suburban location with dysfunctional human settlement patterns is economically thriving.

    And this is the big point:

    Functional human settlement patterns (as measured by population density) are related to economic health. The optimal density is suburban – not rural, not urban.

    And it’s not just DC. Where is the money around Richmond? In the city of Richmond? No. In the farming areas outside of Richmond? No. In suburbs like Henrico County? You got it.

    And this is the truth that some on this blog absolutely hate – the suburbs have grown in population and wealth faster than either the rural areas or the urban areas – across the USA. The fact that Virginia is among the last states to understand this is both predictable and sad. The fact that Virginia’s policies are designed to choke off the places that do the most to create wealth is both grossly incompetent and culpably negligent.

  41. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Groveton:

    Sorry to rain on your parade but you have again been hoisted by the petard of municipal border totals.

    If you break down the areas by orgaic component you find the opposite is true.

    Think Georgetown, think Old Town, Think The Fan.

    You need a good course in Regional Metrics.

    Alpha Zeus

  42. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Why do you favor the “commerce” of commuters over the “commerce” of non-commuters?

    Where did I say that?

    I said simply that roads support commerce, and the way to support roads is to tax the commerce they support.

    A non-commuter does not participate in commerce supported by a commuter road. But, there is a very good chance that the commerce he does engage in, trickles down along with the money that is generated in other areas. Therefore the non-commuter is not immune from receiving benefits from the commuter road, and he should not be immune from paying for them.

    The non commuter participates in some kind of commerce. We may not know exactly how much of his local commerce trickles down from other areas, but it doesn’t make any difference, since all commerce is taxed the same.

    If all his commerce is local then taxes on local commerce support local roads. If a large portion of his local commerce comes from commuters then taxes on his commerce support both local and commuter roads.

    End of problem, end of dispute.

    How do we allocate spending of the funds collected? We allocate them according to the commerce supported.

    The non-commuters commerce taxes will then be devoted to the areas that provide the most trickle down, and therefore the most benefit to him, even if his money is spent on someone “else’s” roads.

    We already do this with state universities, the fastest growing schools get the most money.

    This does not mean that the local road supporting entirely locally grown commerce gets nothing, only that what gets allocated is proportional to what commerce is supported, local or otherwise.

    End of problem.

    ——————————-

    “If someone needs to drive 100 miles a day for “commerce” then they should be paying for the costs that they incur in doing that “commerce” and not expecting others to.”

    Even if I agreed with this, then someone would have the job of figuring out what those costs are, and sending the bill. I think it is far cheaper to split the tab than pay for all the transaction costs. And it is porbably nowhee near as “unfair” as you describe.

    And you would be assuming that the driver gets all the benefit of the commerce, when the usual rule for measuring economic development projects is a multiplier of between three and seven.

    My plan only assumes that commerce goes wherever it goes, and the cost of transport is included. Therefore if you tax the commerce appropriately, you have already taxed the cost of transportation it includes.

    Even if the transport is out of state. The result is that you encourage local production and local transportation, in order to keep the costs of transportation and taxes down.

    Gas taxes are a special category of sales taxes which promote thrift and a cleaner environment. They should be based on dollars, not gallons.

    Income taxes are another special category of taxes on commerce, in this case the sale of labor. I see no reason why other services should not be taxed as well, just like any other commerce. And, based on Groveton’s excellent suggestion, I’d include lobbying services.

    In the end, you would have taxes from commerce in all sectors supporting roads according to the benefit produced for commerce.

    RH

  43. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    re: hating the suburbs

    Groveton – when that airliner that you boarded in Washington gets to it’s destination – do you think you are landing in “suburbs”.

    Why do those departure signs at the airport say:

    Cleveland
    New York
    Jacksonville
    Brussels
    Singapore

    instead of Lakewood, Secaucus, Cambon, Vorst, and Woodlands ?

    I’m not really disagreeing with your comment about the suburbs but are not these “suburbs” creatures of the urban cores?

    Would they exist as “economic powerhouses” WITHOUT proximity to urban cores?

  44. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “you forgot two important things and that is Commerce has to incorporate the costs of doing business and it must make a profit…”

    If the commuter isn’t making a profit, he will go bankrupt, or change his business somehow. We see that happening now.

    If we aren’t charging enough taxes on commerce to support the road system, then the road system will go bankrupt. We see that happening now.

    What’s your point?

    How have I forgotten anything?

    RH

  45. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Groveton:

    Observation of real world facts and pnenomena are hugely irrelevent to EMR AKA Alpha Zeus.

    I enjoyed your observations, though.

    RH

  46. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    re: “commerce”

    each “commerce” activity needs to pay for it’s own costs.

    this is nothing to “figure out”.

    local commerce pays gas taxes that should be used to pay for the roads that local commerce needs.

    “commuting” commerce pays gas taxes for the roads that it needs.

    If “commuting commerce” needs more roads and “local commercial” needs more roads – you don’t take the local commerce taxes to pay for the commuting commerce needs

    which is exactly what you advocate when the commuting commerce gets congested and needs more roads

    ..you want to take taxes away from the folks who do not commute – who are “local commerce”

    that is not “user pays” no matter what kind of a “special” tax the gas tax is.

    and that describes why the current road planning process – is not equitable.

    Because in the end – which roads should be a higher priority if there is limited funding?

    You would say the commuter roads.

    I would say that the folks who live and work local deserve to have their gas taxes spent to improve their community and not taken away to build more infrastructure for those that chose NOT to live and work local.

    It’s a simple matter of equity in who pays – proportionally and who gets proportiona benefits.

    You apparently believe that “commuter” commerce is justified in taking taxes away from local commerce.

    no?

  47. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Would the economic powerhouses at the urban core exist without the actual powerhouses and resources to fire them, located in the hinterlands?

    Would the economic power houses at the urban core exist for a week if they had to bury their own garbage?

    RH

  48. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    re: “Would the economic power houses at the urban core exist for a week if they had to bury their own garbage?”

    so .. this is how the suburbs become economic powerhouses?

    I never ever realized that garbage was so profitable…

    I wonder if EMR has caught on to this valuable insight?

    🙂

  49. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “each “commerce” activity needs to pay for it’s own costs.

    this is nothing to “figure out”.

    This is the same false argument over again, Larry: that location has something to do with costs. That we need to figure out every activity singly to assess every cost singly.

    It simply isn’t true, and it is a dumb idea to start with.

    ——————————-

    “…commuting” commerce pays gas taxes for the roads that it needs.”

    Who said that? I didn’t. Commerce should pay commerce taxes to support the roads. Period.

    We ahvce already agreed that gas taxes are not paying the bills. Don’t keep trying to pretend they do.

    —————————

    you want to take taxes away from the folks who do not commute – who are “local commerce”

    I never said that. The taxes are proportionate to the commerce they produce, and so is the allocation of road funds. how is that taking away?

    —————————–

    The user that pays is commerce. I simply pointed out that gas tax is one special tax on commerce, along with income tax.

    —————————–

    “which roads should be a higher priority if there is limited funding?

    You would say the commuter roads.”

    I never said that, I said roads support commerce and taxes on commerce should support roads. The priority would be to take best care of the roads that produce the most commerce. Since taxes on commerce suport the roads, that seems reasonable.

    Spending money on the roads that support the most commerce actually helps self-guarantee there won’t be a shortfall.

    There really is no “Higher priority” there is only one: how much money do you bring in? It is the same priroity that covers the taxation: fair is fair.

    However, I would not be surprised if commuter roads generate a lot of the funds.

    —————————–

    If there is limited funding, then commerce is notpaying enough.

    RH

  50. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Alpha Zeus:

    I’ll take that course in metrics right after you buy a book on statistics (and read it).

    Once you done that, do this:

    1. Take the whole US, by zip code
    2. Create a graph with population density on one axis and per capita income on the other axis.

    What does the graph look like?

    Your willingness to cite small areas brings into question your understanding of sample size. I know a guy who lives on a lake outside of Seattle. The per capita income on that 5.15 acre “oranic component” is a bit over $1B / year. From this, we may surmise:

    1. Economic prosperity is guaranteed by living on lake front property.
    2. 5.15 acres / family is the optimal lot size for becoming a billionaire.
    3. Nothing – a sample size of 1 is statistically irrelevant.

  51. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “I never ever realized that garbage was so profitable…”

    Where have you been?

    The entire environmental movement is a big put-up job by the mafia to move their old garbage collection franchises upscale into the realm of “Waste Management” and “Environmental Protection”. It uses the same marketing scheme as the old “protection racket” , and they have been so successful selling it that people will pay (out of fear) to wear their logo.

    RH

  52. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Alpha ZSeus is going to tell you that on a square foot basis, many tenements produce more income.

    He might be right, but it is still irrelevant.

    RH

  53. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    re: “Where have you been?

    The entire environmental movement is a big put-up job by the mafia to move their old garbage collection franchises upscale into the realm of “Waste Management” and “Environmental Protection”. “

    ahhh.. got it…

    so the next time Groveton talks about the suburban economic powerhouses.. it’s code for mafia enterprises?

    I’m learning RH.. it’s just that these ideas of yours sound so crazy…

  54. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    My original comment about cities burying their own garbage was meant to indicate that if they actually had to do that, they would exped much of their economic energy digging beneath the city.

    The cities, the suburbs AND the rural areas are co-dependent and symbiotic.

    That is why my plan to fund roads simply on the basis of commerce taxes works so superbly. Commerce redistributes itself sensibly, and we distribute tax collection and transportation funding accordingly.

    If you walk to the local patisserie and buy a croissant, then you pay tax on the croissant. But if the baker lives in SE and he is a reverse commuter, then your tax helps pay the road he commutes on. If you buy goat chees to put on your croissant, then you pay tax on the airfare from France.
    This creates a window of opportunity for the local gaot chees manufacturer.

    It is transparent, local and fair.

    New ideas seem strange because they are new, not because they are crazy.

    RH

  55. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    “Would they exist as “economic powerhouses” WITHOUT proximity to urban cores?”.

    Yes, I believe many of them would. Could they have come into existance without the urban cores? No. Just like a person could not come into existance without a mother. Yet, there comes a time when the person is no longer dependent on their mother. In fact, there often comes a time when the mother becomes dependent on her child.

    It seems to me (in the US) that the fastest growth in per capita income has occurred in places with population densities that would normally be termed “suburban”. There are certainly specific exceptions – Central Park South, for example.

    Or, maybe, people create mid density development once they achieve a certain level of per capita income – statistically speaking.

    Either way, Virginia has a problem when it seeks to stop “suburban sprawl”. If it’s the sprawl that creates the income then stopping the sprawl will slow / stop in the income growth. If the people with the income demand the sprawl, they will move out of Virginia if the state discontinues its “sprawl product”.

    What do you think would happen if the Pentagon, CIA, NSA, etc. were all relocated to Roanoke? All the jobs, all the support – all moved to downtown Roanoke. I’d bet that there would be a surge of suburb building around Roanoke. No?

  56. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Groveton said:

    “Alpha Zeus:

    “I’ll take that course in metrics right after you buy a book on statistics (and read it).

    Actually I have taught statistics at the college level.

    Let me know when you want to sign up for Regional Metircs.

    One of the things that first attracted many of us to the work of Dr. Risse is the fact that he has a degree in Math, and is conversant in a number of fields of science.

    “Once you done that, do this:

    “1. Take the whole US, by zip code

    “2. Create a graph with population density on one axis and per capita income on the other axis.

    Zip Codes are not organic components.

    “What does the graph look like?

    That depends on the area of the country where you are looking. Zip codes boundaries were set up by a political process in each of the “regional postmaster” territories. Some make sense from a settlement pattern perspective, most do not.

    “Your willingness to cite small areas brings into question your understanding of sample size. I know a guy who lives on a lake outside of Seattle. The per capita income on that 5.15 acre “oranic component” is a bit over $1B / year.

    We know that fellow as luck would have it.

    According to Regional Metrics there are 8 levels of organic components between the Household (Unit) and the Continent. (Add two for Subregion and Subcontinent where they are important like the Virginia Subregion of the Washington-Baltimore New Urban Region)

    At each level you can come to understand different issues.

    You blew your cover when you cited “Fairfax County.”

    Fairfax is not an organic component. The county contains, has as I recall from Dr. Risse’s class, all or part of 9 Alpha Communities. Greater Reston where you live and work is one.

    “From this, we may surmise:

    1. Economic prosperity is guaranteed by living on lake front property.

    2. 5.15 acres / family is the optimal lot size for becoming a billionaire.

    3. Nothing – a sample size of 1 is statistically irrelevant.

    None of the above. It tells you some things but not a lot.

    Now at the Dooryard, Cluster, Neighborhoods… you can lear something new at each one…

    Alpha Zeus

    (This post was veted by other memebers of the Z team to be sure I had it right.)

  57. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Alpha Zeus:

    I cited Fairfax County in response to this post:

    “Very interesting that you specifically brought up Anacostia Groveton

    Anacostia actually is more built out than Fairfax is yet it has a much lower standard of living

    This proves growth by itself doesn’t bring anything to an area.”.

    So, not sure how I “blew my cover” by citing Fairfax County. NMM cited Fairfax County and I responded.

  58. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    At 2:45 PM, Groveton said…

    Alpha Zeus:

    I cited Fairfax County in response to this post:

    “Very interesting that you specifically brought up Anacostia Groveton

    Anacostia actually is more built out than Fairfax is yet it has a much lower standard of living

    This proves growth by itself doesn’t bring anything to an area.”.

    So, not sure how I “blew my cover” by citing Fairfax County.

    NMM cited Fairfax County and I responded.

    You blew your cover (about having a grasp of human settlement pattern data) because the correct response would have been to point out that:

    The “density” of Fairfax County (or anywhere else) has nothing to do with “build out”

    Anacostia is part of a Community and that Fairfax includes many Communities. That is true if you use Regional Metrics or some other system.

    Alpha Zena

    (Alpha Zeus is on the road and checked with us on the prior post so we answered.)

  59. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Zena? The “Z” team?

    Gadzooks!

    re: zip codes

    they’re more granular than other boundaries though – correct?

    Are there other ways to …better delineate from census data?

    are there are data than census data?

    as far as government boundaries – which delineate potential settlement pattern outcomes due to different governance policies – depending on the state, sub-state governance structure….

    … there appear to be regions that cross these boundaries – economies and settlement patterns even that occur in similar ways regionally – in spite of such boundaries…

    but I would point out:

    “Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics”

    having worked a number of years in a place where a majority of folks where Mathematicians .. who usually snorted with some derision when someone claimed degree credentials in Statistics – a “soft” science.

    🙂

  60. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Groveton:

    I had a college professor who posed a statistics queston on an exam that could not be answered correctly with the information provided.

    As I recall it was something like this: you have ten fish in a tank with two chemicals X and Y. X is twice as toxic as Y. Given that two fish have died, what is the probability that they were killed by X?

    The intent of the question is clear, but in fact it would be like being killed by a mixture of two explosives, and the question is meaningless. The fact that X is twice as toxic as Y allows no assumptions about the combination of the two.

    When I pointed this out to him, he took it as a persoanl insult, and flunked me in retaliation.

    Having taken other statistics classes before, I knew I was right, so I took the case to the dean. The professor was ultimately fired. I still had to re-take the course (off campus), where I got an A.

    Stangely enough, you can teach and yet not understand a thing. To him, saving face was more important than being correct.

    I warned you that Alpha Zseus woud redefine the terms: zipcodes are not organic.

    RH

  61. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Now that we’ve solved all the worlds problems:

    Happy Father’s Day.

    RH

  62. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Alpha Zena:

    You seem to like avoiding questions more than answering them. You don’t like counties, you don’t like zip codes, you don’t like CDPs (Census Designated Places). No quantitative analysis can ever be performed because no categorization is ever good enough.

    Suppose someone said, “All active NFL players are better than average athletes”. I’d say “yep”. You’d say “the NFL has many different kinds of athletes – there are strength athletes like centers, speed athletes like receivers and specialty players like kickers”. In fact, every player in the NFL is a better than average athlete. In fact, every community in Fairfax County has enjoyed more economic success than any community in SE DC. And, on average, the communities in SE DC have more of the visible attributes of functional settlement patterns (population density, affordable housing, percentage of people using mass transit, etc).

    I knew a lawyer once who told me his secret of success:

    1. If you don’t know the facts, argue the law.

    2. If you don’t know the law, argue the facts.

    3. If you don’t know either, get emotional.

    “Anacostia is part of a Community…”.

    Interesting that you would write that. Anacostia, like Tyson’s Corner, has no widely accepted geographic definition. Some say it’s the small neighborhood formerly known as Uniontown. Others say it’s any part of the city of Washington located south east of the Anacostia River. So when you write, “Anacostia is part of a Community and that Fairfax includes many Communities.” you’d have to first decide which definition of Anacostia you wanted to use. Which brings me to:

    1. If reality doesn’t fit your theories, argue data.

    2. If reality doesn’t fit your data, argue theory.

    3. If reality doesn’t fit either your data or your theories, invent a new language.

  63. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Happy Father’s Day. My Dad, my boys and I are all going to an antique car show. I’ll be thinking of Jim Bacon driving one of those 300 MPG 3 wheelers as I try to talk the owner of a ’68 Chevy SS 396 into letting me take it for a spin. I hope to drive it SOLO on the beltway without paying tolls!

  64. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Whenever someone gets around to answering what size these settlement critters should be.. let me know how things like regional transit and the like are handled.

    who is responsible for planning, building and operating things that serve more than one community?

  65. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    I just can’t resist.

    “Virginia loses 165 acres every day to development, and while we welcome growth and economic success, it is paramount that we grow in a wise and sustainable way with an eye towards conservation,” said Kaine in a press release.”.

    Virginia does not lose an acre when it is developed. Virginia lost a lot of acres when the “descendants of Pocohontas” decided to fight a war to preserve slavery and what is now West Virginia bolted. But it doesn’t lose any acres when they are developed.

    Virginia has 27,375,360 acres.

    If the pace of development today (165 acres per day) had begun when Pocohontas was born (1595) and continued unabated through today – Virginia would still not be fully developed.

    Kaine gets my “Z Team” award for creative statistics.

  66. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    yeah.. I agree… it had a bad smell to it…

    “losing” land to development is divisive language… especially when it does not acknowledge that if development produces sustainable jobs and GNP.

    How about this.

    Kaine develops a policy of “no net loss of land” you know ..like “no net loss of wetlands” [snicker] and for every acre of land developed .. a parcel of land is set aside forever.

    We could start with Ray’s Farm.

  67. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Earlier Groveton made fun of my repy and so I checked with Dr. Risse.

    He said not to be too hard on Groveton because he has some good ideas but a bad case of Geogrphic Illeracy.

    So here is an attempt to help Groveton out.

    Groveton said:

    “Alpha Zena:

    “You seem to like avoiding questions more than answering them.

    I hope not but when two people do not have the same geogrphic framework it may seem that way.

    “You don’t like counties, you don’t like zip codes, you don’t like CDPs (Census Designated Places).

    It is not that I do not like them, it is that they are not organic components of human settlement so they distort the data.

    “No quantitative analysis can ever be performed because no categorization is ever good enough.

    I find that the ones Dr. Risse has developed work well, you might try to understand those.

    “Suppose someone said, “All active NFL players are better than average athletes”. I’d say “yep”.

    “You’d say “the NFL has many different kinds of athletes – there are strength athletes like centers, speed athletes like receivers and specialty players like kickers”.

    That is why having an organicly based set of nesting components is so important — you can look at all components in a community (NFL players) or a subset of them (centerfielders) without being confused.

    “In fact, every player in the NFL is a better than average athlete.

    If you say so.

    “In fact, every community in Fairfax County has enjoyed more economic success than any community in SE DC.”

    This is an incomprhensible statement because there are 9 Communities all or part in Fairfax County and there is only part of one community in “South East Federal Distict.”

    You started talking about Anacostia. The two Wards East of the Anacostia River are a small part of the Beta Community that includes the adjacent parts of Prince Georges County inside the Beltway.

    Lets look at the three Beta Communities that are in Southeastern Fairfax.

    These Beta Communties have are focused on Alexandria, Baileys Cross Roads and Springfield.

    One might find that they have a lot in common with the Beta Community that includes “Annacostia.”

    The Beta Neighborhoods along US Route 1 have a lot in common with those in Greater Anacostia / West Prince Georges.

    The neighborhoods around Baileys Crossroads have a lot in common with ones in Greater Anacostia / West Prince Georges.

    “And, on average, the communities in SE DC have more of the visible attributes of functional settlement patterns (population density, affordable housing, percentage of people using mass transit, etc).

    This sentence has no decernable meaning. Those characteristics are not “attributes of functional settlement patterns.”

    (We will leave out your lawyer joke, it does not contribute to the discusion. I doubt that it was told to you by a lawyer who said it was his secret to success.)

    “Anacostia is part of a Community…”.

    Yes, a Beta Community we might call Greater Anacostia / West Prince Georges for lack of a better name.

    “Interesting that you would write that. Anacostia, like Tyson’s Corner, has no widely accepted geographic definition.

    Here is the root of the problem. It is not constructive to talk about components of human settlement patterns without agreed to definitions and a map.

    “Some say it’s the small neighborhood formerly known as Uniontown. Others say it’s any part of the city of Washington located south east of the Anacostia River. So when you write, “Anacostia is part of a Community and that Fairfax includes many Communities.” you’d have to first decide which definition of Anacostia you wanted to use.

    No we already did that base on the criteria that are outlined in Dr. Risse’s work.

    We hope this helps.

    Alpha Zena

  68. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    The good Dr. Risse’s theories can only be suported by data that doesn’t exist, or which he invents.

    Get used to it.

    RH

  69. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    The good news is that thanks to Dr. Risse, and others that think the same way, we now seem to be embarked on a grand and expensive experiment.

    Dr. Risse (and I) won’t be around long enough to see the results, but the children and grandchildren he so often invokes will be here to text “WTF?”.

    Tim Russert died today. Was he 58 or 68? Whatever, he spent his life fully engaged in what he believed. Maybe he should have spent more time for himself.

    RH

  70. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    The good news is that thanks to Dr. Risse, and others that think the same way, we now seem to be embarked on a grand and expensive experiment.

    Dr. Risse (and I) won’t be around long enough to see the results, but the children and grandchildren he so often invokes will be here to text “WTF?”.

    Tim Russert died today. Was he 58 or 68? Whatever, he spent his life fully engaged in what he believed. Maybe he should have spent more time for himself.

    RH

  71. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “We could start with Ray’s farm.”

    Yes, you could, and be at it for a long time.

    I could go out in the back, where it is wooded and hilly, unsuitable for farming other than trees, and build a modest home on a half acre. Suitably engineered for the conditions at hand.

    It would produce more profit than the rest of the farm will produce for 200 years. This is NOT an exaggeration.

    I could afford to do that, every ten years or so.

    If I used half acre lots, then a hundred years from now I would have used less than 2% of the farm.

    But I would be 4000% richer.

    Why do you suppose it is, that I don’t think my supervisor and his cronys are looking out for me? Not to mention the public benefit?

    There is one farm owner on the Fauquier Board of supervisors today. he is the only one opposed to the current slate of “conservation” proposals. He is opposed because that “conservation” will come at the expense of farm owners, (and their grandchildren) exclusively.

    He raises the issue I have raised. At what point is conservation enough? When do we decide we can afford an infinite price?

    And he is an elected official. Too bad he is still in the minority. He is the only one with sense enough to run a farm, let alone a county.

    ————————

    But, I’m prevented from buiding a home every few years because:

    1) I’m prohibited. I don’t have enough land.

    2) I’m prohibited. I have land but I once had more land, so my rights are reduced. Large land owners get respectively fewer rights, in Fauquier.

    3) I’m prohibited. I have land and I had rights, but they were taken away.

    4) I’m prohibited, I have land and I once had more land which night have generated rights, but it was taken away under eminent domain.

    5) I’m Prhimited. I once had rights but they are now in the flood plain.

    6) I’m prohibited. The flood plain lots were once allowwed to be moved, under a “density credit”. Now, that is gone.

    7) I’m prohibited. I once had three “administrative lots” but now Ihave two.

    8) I’m prohibited. If I wanted to build one house on a half acre It ould cost me in excess of $100,000 in fees, just to go through the process of asking for permission, after which I would probably be refused.

    9) I’m effectively prohibited. Even if I was allowed the engineering requirements ar excessive.

    10) If I had any money left after taht exercise, I could then aply for any other “potentially alowable uses”.

    11) After I got turned down on ALL of them, then I would be “allowed” to sue. If I had an infinite amount of money for lawyers.

    My attorney has advised me it is not worth the effort. Not even if it is worth 4000% to me.

    That is the reality I face every day I spend on the tractor, for a net profit of $50, If I’m lucky.

    I once knew a man who got superlative service from his attorney. His attorney answered every call, and he won every case.

    I asked him how that worked.

    “Oh”, he said, I’,m close friends with his wife.”

    “And his girlfriend”

    Too bad my attorney is honest.

    Don’t make the mistake of thinking I’m bitter. Taht would not beginto describe my feelings.

    Maybe I’ll take Baracks advice and go console myself with my religion and my guns.

    RH

  72. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Apologies for the double post.

    I’m on dial-up, and things get weird, including my spelling.

    RH

  73. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Groveton:

    Good luck.

    At one time Bacon’s Rebellion allowed comments.

    After I undertook a massive, paragraph by paragraph rebuttal of Dr. Risse’s publications, that feature was removed.

    Subsequently, I was reduced to debating him here, mostly in absentia, and sometimes under pseudonyms.

    Lately, he will not respond to my posts, claiming that I have been disrespectful to one of his friends who is now deceased.

    I am not certain as to whom he refers, but I believe it is a former county supervisor who invited me to leave the county, if I didn’t like the county regulations.

    In public. In the county newspaper.

    If I’m correct, this particular gentleman retired from county service and sold a rather valuable home in Warrenton,

    He bought a substantial property, previously part of someone’s farm, in another county, and lived there until he died.

    There were once two county newspapers. One of them frequently published my letters to the editor.
    It was later purchsed by the other. That paper has yet to publish one of my letters.

    Take it for what it is worth.

    RH

  74. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    The Beta Neighborhoods along US Route 1 have a lot in common with those in Greater Anacostia / West Prince Georges.

    I grew up in the Beta Neighborhood along Rt 1. I go back there to see friends often. I also spend a fair amount of time in SE DC working with a charity.

    I am sorry but they are very different. The Rt 1 corridor is a razor thin vein of working poverty surrounded by middle class prosperity. Within 1 mile of every place on Rt 1 middle class prosperity can be seen. In fact, neighborhoods like Belle Haven are very wealthy enclaves right along the Rt 1 corridor. You could walk a long, long way in SE DC before you found a place like Belle Haven.

    The children of the working poor along Rt 1 can see economic possibilities every day. They go to schools with the children of middle class and upper middle class parents. The go to school in one of the country’s best school systems. The weakest academic high school in Fairfax County is still a great school.

    Poverty on Rt 1 is sporadic, temporary and reversible. Poverty in SE DC is pervasive, multi-generational and enduring.

    Have a look at the 2007 Murder Map:

    http://www.burgersub.org/murders2k7.htm

  75. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    RH Call Home!

    They have sent a small machine to dig up near the South Pole.

    It is a part of the conspiricy to keep you form making money from your Earthling wifes land.

  76. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Better yet RH, call AA

Leave a Reply

Read More