Jefferson and Madison Legacies Debated in Library Hearing

The Jefferson-Madison Library in Charlottesville. Photo credit: NBC29.

by Ann McLean

From the first comment of “Don’t burn our past!” a June 27th public hearing to discuss striking the names of the two Founding Fathers from the Jefferson-Madison Regional Library turned into verbal fireworks.

Two camps quickly formed. The first five speakers defended Mr. Jefferson, who most realize needs no defense given his revolutionary proclamation that “all men are created equal,” endowed by God with the inalienable rights of “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” This clarion call inspired freedom throughout the Western world and now around the globe.

“It was Jefferson who pushed to free all people,” said one speaker.

“Mr. Jefferson loved books,” said another. “His books began this library in 1823.”

Yet another noted, “The enemies of Jefferson may not realize it, but they would have no rights at all if Jefferson’s ideas were discarded, as they have been time and time again in world history by regimes led by people like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and now Putin. Jefferson’s ideas were truly inspired by God.”

David Plunkett, director of the library, and Thomas Unsworth, president of its board of trustees, allowed comments through the meeting’s Zoom link, with no apparent time limits.

Cynthia Alling, a long-time resident of Charlottesville, discussed in a soft and kind voice how Jefferson was “the saving grace of the Library of Congress” after the War of 1812, when the British burned the White House, which at the time contained the Library of Congress. “It was Thomas Jefferson who in 1815 gave his books for the new Library. My emphasis is on Jefferson and the Library.” Afterward, she quietly said to one of the women pushing for the name change, “We all need to get along.”

Then the other side spoke. Myra Anderson, a fellow at the UVa Equity Center and member of Reclaimed Roots Descendants Alliance, a Charlottesville-based group of descendants of enslaved laborers, stood up to say, “It is time to change so it will be fair for everyone…. Everything is changing, so we should do this because it is being done everywhere.” An entire row of supporters stood with her, some holding homemade signs.

Also firing back, a young educator “of the community” of Charlottesville and Albemarle stated, “Black and brown people suffer trauma from coming in here. … I can’t bring my students to this library…. I don’t feel acknowledged!” She was very angry and wore a mask.

One Zoom caller, identified only as “Christine” who had been recruited by the Reclaimed Roots Facebook plea to speak, offered, “I have a mixed-race marriage. I feel the name does not represent myself, my son, or my husband.”

A female Unitarian Universalist stated (incorrectly) that “Jefferson was not a fan of religion,” and, “We have a chance – Black America – to make a change. We want a library system that actually aligns with our new changes.”

Not quite the grand finale but close to it was retired University of Virginia Professor Bob Turner who calmly but forcefully made fact-based comments pointing out Jefferson’s beliefs.

“I am saddened because there is a lot of agreement here,” he said. Slavery was a horrible and indefensible institution. But slavery existed around the world in the 1700s, and exists even today in some areas of Africa. Jefferson did not create the institution, and he was a leader in restricting it. In 1778, Turner said, “Jefferson authored the law that made it unlawful to import new slaves into Virginia.” Jefferson also “drafted a bill calling for the emancipation of all slaves born in Virginia after the year 1800, which was never introduced because the votes weren’t there.”

Jefferson believed liberty was a “gift of God,” Turner said, but it was illegal at the time to just turn enslaved laborers out into the countryside without any way to feed, clothe or protect themselves.

Toward the end of the hearing, Plunkett stated that the library board does not have the authority to unilaterally change the organization’s title. The “Jefferson-Madison” name is part of a 1974 contract among the jurisdictions in the regional library system, which includes the city of Charlottesville and Albemarle, Nelson, Greene and Louisa counties. Plunkett noted that changing the name would require amending the contract with the approval of the governing boards of each of these localities, with any one city or county effectively having “veto power.” He further pointed out that the boards of supervisors in Louisa and Greene counties both have passed resolutions opposing the name change.

“We can work creatively” to change the name, Plunkett said.

Michael Powers, an Albemarle County member of the regional library board, noted that the board received over 100 written comments, one of which stated, “No matter how bad things may have been for your ancestors, you should thank God and kiss the ground that you live here. And you live in freedom largely due to Jefferson and Madison.”

The legal obstacles to the name change appeared to infuriate some library board members. “It feels like they are trying to corner us into a box,” said trustee Lisa Woolfolk, who represents Charlottesville. She also criticized the Greene and Louisa supervisors for passing the resolutions and questioned the locality’s commitment to a promoting a “diverse” community.

This prompted a rejoinder near the end of the hearing from Willie Gentry, a member of the Louisa Board of Supervisors, who had not spoken earlier. He said the Louisa board was fully aware of the positions put forth by the two sides at the hearing. “Did I hear any good reasons to change our resolution? To be honest, I did not.” (The Louisa board passed its resolution 7-0 on June 6.)

Thomas Unsworth, whose term as president of the regional library board concluded June 30, raised the possibility that the board would still fight for a name change, despite the “uphill battle,” as Plunkett described the move for alteration.

“I don’t believe that removes our voice from this process,” he said. “We are the Board of Trustees here. We do still have to be considered going forward to try to enact a change if the board so chooses.”

The next steps are unclear. The library board will receive more comments at its next meeting, now scheduled for July 25. Comments can be sent to David Plunkett at director@jmrl.org

Ann McLean serves on the board of The Jefferson Council.


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Comments

46 responses to “Jefferson and Madison Legacies Debated in Library Hearing”

  1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    Patrick Henry, once a resident of Louisa County, would approve of that jurisdictions board of supervisors resolution. Looks like the left has been outflanked by the 1974 contract. That name change wheel, however, will not cease to squeak.

  2. Wahoo'74 Avatar
    Wahoo’74

    Superb article, Ann. It would appear these zealots have been blocked in their insane attempt the remove Jefferson and Madison’s names. Terrific summary of this event.

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      I am sure TJ and JM would be thrilled that only their names are on this library. 🙄

      1. Wahoo'74 Avatar
        Wahoo’74

        Your smug arrogance is palpable. Perhaps the Marxists in charge could rename it “Eric the Half a Troll” library. Has a nice ring to it, don’t you think?

        Perhaps then all the paranoid, aggrieved people who are complaining would finally feel “safe” when entering the library.

        I don’t know what you do for a living, but sure hope you’re not a professor at UVA.

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          Yes, those with the audacity to suggest a library might not have to be named after TJ or JM are “paranoid and aggrieved”… smh…

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          TJ is not everyone’s hero. His attitudes towards blacks has been seen by some to be a pre-cursor to the thinking of racists and white supremacist.

          Not everyone, even in that time, though slavery was right. Even Jefferson did not and he said so.

          But he continued to own slaves and his views towards blacks were that they were not equal – despite his words claiming that in the Declaration of Independence.

          African Americans do find this to be deserving of memorials and honor.

          The question is why do some think this even though they know that African Americans do not?

          Is this a way to go forward or is it a continuation of the racial split we still have?

      2. Wahoo'74 Avatar
        Wahoo’74

        Your smug arrogance is palpable. Perhaps the Marxists in charge could rename it “Eric the Half a Troll” library. Has a nice ring to it, don’t you think?

        Perhaps then all the paranoid, aggrieved people who are complaining would finally feel “safe” when entering the library.

        I don’t know what you do for a living, but sure hope you’re not a professor at UVA.

  3. Carter Melton Avatar
    Carter Melton

    If we don’t stop the whiners, the crybabies, the uninformed, and the merchants of woke psychobabble and philosophy, from altering America’s arc….from our communities to our national legacy….we won’t have to worry about Putin or Xi!

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      It’s a library, ffs.

  4. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Thomas Nelson Community College is no more. The 4th governor, patriot, and cruel slaver has been expunged from daily conversation. CANCELLED! Don’t fret it Dear BR readers, Conservatives, MAGAts, or other white supremacists, his accomplishments are still part of our history.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      Can you even name one accomplishment of Nelson without cheating?

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Yeah, he sacrificed his home in Yorktown, which I guess put Cornwallis in a cave, and his signature is on the DoI. Other than that, no. Maybe the barista will give me a cuppa joe?

        Who knows, maybe someday they will rename the newly named Virginia Peninsulas Community College to, oh say, Trump University. Cancel cancelled.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          I just looked. I had believed he set his house ablaze before abandoning it. Apparently, he directed an artillery barrage on his own house. Minor discrepancy.

          1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            Huzzah! I give you an “A”…minus. He supposedly offered 5 guineas to the first gunner who successfully hit his own house. Not bad for a signer of the Declaration of Independence. Happy 4th!

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Ah, yes. supossedly. And John Paul Jones supposedly said, “I have not yet begun to fight.” I don’t recall off hand his response to an offer of quarter, but whatever he said, it was followed by powder. He supposedly said his famous reply based only on a newspaper article** many years later. FWIW, he did respond to the Serapis’ hail to identify with “Come closer and I will show you.” Those words and some others are found in the Bonhomme Richard officer’s logs.

            **newspaper article — the source of much history that sure sounded good at the time, usually decades after the event. “When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.”

          3. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            I thought he said, “would you happen to have any grey poupon?”
            Stephen Decatur’s heroic deeds at Tripoli need no embellishment. With 60 men armed only with pikes and swords, Decatur recaptures the Philadelphia, burns it and sails away without losing a man. Lord Nelson declared this as the boldest act of the age.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3572195e44bb19151a11f8e1420ae623afb2be2fdca82f8724f2eb295117ad71.jpg

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            What? No mention for Farragut?

            Speaking of Decatur, I love it when people (liberals and conservaives alike) declare that we need to stop being the “world’s police”. It’s a role we stepped into in the 1790s. 230 years with nearly as many foreign military interventions. With the possible exception of the Brits, you can just call us Officer Krupke.

          5. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead
          6. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Great movie. I saw it, went out and bought two DVDs and sent one to my brother, the Captain.

          7. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            The sequel is in the works.

          8. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            They’ve been saying that for 10 years. I can wait.

          9. Thomas Dixon Avatar
            Thomas Dixon

            Why do you hate this country so much?

          10. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Why do you love it so much but hate half the people who live here?

          11. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Here’s the thing. Some of us not only believe in the promise of America – we want it to live up to that promise for everyone.

            Others seem content as long as it works for them.

  5. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    A fundamental issue that is being ignored is how do black people feel about Jefferson.

    The back and forth debate here , like most of them, seems to be between the white folks defenders of Jefferson and the ‘woke” critics.

    Does it matter how African Americans view Jefferson?

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Whyever would they speak up and surely draw the ire of both groups. It is more to their benefit that the white folk squabble among themselves.

      Now, if we can just get the cops from making Swiss Cheese of ’em, then they’ll chime in.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I note when i ask the question : ” Does it matter how African Americans view Jefferson?”, there are crickets from the usual Jefferson defenders. Zippo.

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead

          You can’t have the man on the left without the man on the right. Their destinies were always inextricably bound together.
          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/88fa96986287bfe7ff3e5912a3f8e5dec8f8b408636a7aa5cb6d3de13f5dab9d.jpg

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Well, if you believe what the man on the right was purported to say- the man on the left would not have been born in America but back in Africa. TJ wanted slaves once freed, to be deported, right?

    2. walter smith Avatar
      walter smith

      So Larry, let’s take your stupidity to another level and ask the opposite – does it matter how white people feel about Jefferson?
      Lefties engage in racialism – it is racist, divisive, unproductive.
      Here’s a better question – how many humans have contributed more to liberty, to freedom, to democratic ideals than Jefferson?
      Jesus would be #1.
      After that, TJ has to be in the Top Ten.
      The Marxist destruction has to stop. America isn’t perfect. Gee, what a shock. TJ wasn’t perfect. Another shock.
      Now let’s do the critics…their contributions are… (still waiting).
      And it won’t stop with TJ…they want Washington ultimately. Little people can only look big by tearing down the great. And their promised utopia will never arrive because it wasn’t about that…it was only and always will be about power and power alone, at all costs and by any means necessary.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        “…how many humans have contributed more to liberty, to freedom, to democratic ideals than Jefferson?
        Jesus would be #1….”

        Lol!! That is rich in so many levels…. I’m dying here…!!

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          When it’s a white guy saying that and all the heroes they revere – are white folks – and they’re not heroes of black folks , sounds a lot like white supremacy to me.

        2. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          Yes you are. Of your own free will. Meanwhile, you can continue to live in fear of the theocracy…
          So scary!
          Hey, have you ever actually made a non-troll comment?
          Has inflation hit troll pay yet?
          What has the Full Troll done to improve the world? You know, that you are qualified to judge? Typically, the only Bible I ever hear from you guys is “judge not,” so why are you judging and by what standards? So far I’ve got Book of Larry, Book of James (McCarthy) and now Book of …(would you prefer Eric or Troll?)

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “Typically, the only Bible I ever hear from you guys is “judge not,” so why are you judging and by what standards?”

            I am laughing at you, not judging you… roflmao…

          2. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            And it hurts so much that Eric the Full Troll is laughing at me…boo-hoo-hoo…

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        It DOES matter how people feel about Jefferson but it ALSO ought to matter how people feel about blacks attitudes towards TJ.

        If TJ is not the hero of blacks and others insist it does not matter and should be ignored and continue on with white-only love of TJ – what does that mean about longer term race relations?

        When we have memorials that mostly only white folks revere and are insults to most black folks, isn’t that the definition of White Supremacy?

        In other words, we white folks have our heroes and if black folks don’t agree, tough cookies! right?

        1. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          No Larry. Is it possible for you to look at anything NOT through a racial lens?
          Jefferson is a giant of world history. For the better. The only reason you are able to live in freedom to spout your either evil or stupid nonsense is because of people like him. He wasn’t perfect. So what. I’m not. You’re not. But I at least can have thankfulness for the positive contributions and gratefulness and enough humility to not judge him by today’s Marxist, unforgiving, devious guidelines.
          And I know – if you lived then…”I trust my government. How dare anyone say slavery is bad. You’re wackadoodle!” So spare me your moral judgments when you wouldn’t honestly look in the mirror.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            TJ was looking at things through a racial lens from the get go.

            right?

            I did not say TJ needed to be perfect.

            What I ask is if TJ is your hero but not black folks why would you want to impose memorials of your heroes on those who they are not?

            TJ’s views were clearly racist. He thought black folks were inferior. He wanted them deported after they were granted “freedom”. His views towards blacks became the views of white supremacists and Jim crow.

            And in his words : ” We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

            He did not advocate that for blacks at all. He did not consider them “equal”. (nor apparently women either).

            Why do we insist that such a person who really did not support equality for blacks be memorialized in public places where the people he did not believe should be equal also use?

            This is why I ask – do you care how black folks feel about these issues?

            And you’d impose your white heroes on folks that is not a hero to them?

            If that’s not “racial”… what is?

            It’s basically saying to black folks – F – you, no?

          2. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            No it isn’t. You are a waste of time. Have you read anything of his efforts to end slavery? Of course not. You just repeat the Dem (Marxist) line. I have always wondered… do people like you actually believe the lies or are you evil? If the former, then at least you are absolved of evil by being the “useful idiot.” But at some point, you have human agency. Being wrong forever is not really excusable, unless you lack the mental faculty to discern, which I do not believe is true.
            But, to show how ridiculous your racialist assertions are…
            So, in Larryworld (which by definition in the Book of Larry means it is not wackadoodle) blacks have a veto right over anything because it might offend them. So blacks can veto many great things because they are offended by who did them. And why can’t whites do the same arbitrary things Larry, for no good reason, just because the person was imperfect? So can we get rid of MLK day? All the roads, etc. We already need to rename everything in WVa. Kennedy School at Harvard? And I can’t wait to look back 100 years as medical progress continues to show the undeniable humanity of the BABY from the moment of conception. What kind of “good” people kill babies ask the future unforgiving absolutists of today with no understanding or forgiveness or humility. Are you one I can wipe out of history now for those beliefs?

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yes. He said he hated slavery – but he also said he wanted freed slaves deported, that they were inferior and could not live in peace with whites.

            You need to be honest guy and read ALL OF HIS WORDS and admit the truth.

            Jefferson’s views are not that different than white supremacists IMHO and I can clearly understand why he is no hero to black folks.

          4. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Do you know why his slaves weren’t freed?
            Was wanting to put freed slaves in Liberia out of compassion or hatred?
            Seriously, I am honest. You are not. And you are incredibly unfair. You should hope people don’t judge you in the same manner. And, even if he was the world’s biggest racist and hypocrite, did he not set up a system leading to liberty and freedom? Ungrateful and unfair.
            As Dean Wormer might say “Ignorant, ungrateful and unfair is no way to go through life, son.”

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            What’s “unfair’ is not acknowledging the entire truth about Jefferson and his attitudes towards blacks. More than unfair.

            It matters a lot what his attitudes were towards blacks – to black people today. That’s a reality we must acknowledge IMHO.

            If his attitudes towards blacks mirrors white supremacy/Jim Crow attitudes towards blacks, is it a surprise that blacks have less than wonderful feelings about Jefferson?

            To be a white guy who idolizes Jefferson but refuses to recognize the complete record of Jefferson towards blacks AND how that affects African Americans today is being willfully blind and/or showing that one really doesn’t care how African Americans feel.

            Where do we go from there on the black/white divide if your attitude is that you really don’t care how African Americans feel about Jefferson?

          6. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            The way to end racism is to end racism. Not to engage in it Larry. He did not have Jim Crow attitudes – you and the rest of your Libs do! Witnessed the vitriol aimed at Justice Thomas? Yeah, if a black guy leaves Massa’s plantation, you guys really hate it…
            There is no “feelings” veto. Jefferson was a giant, and you and his critics are Lilliputians. No more – all you do is look at everything through race colored or CDC colored or offical Dem party line glasses…and everything’s sucky now…
            Hey…did you know Joseph Robinette Biden’s ancestor owned slaves? So did Kamala’s. And Joe used to say he was against abortion before he was for it. When can the cancellation begin? You know he cozied up to Klansman Byrd and Wallace, right? And he is a midget. Can we cancel him first? Start small and work our way up? Will you voluntarily self-cancel? I wish to use my feelings card.
            (And your whole black people’s feelings non-argument is an indication of your racist white savior infantilization of black people who need the white savior to protect them and to tell them how to feel – amazing that the statues existed forever and nobody cared…or about names… but Lefties gotta stir up division to sell their poison)

          7. “To be a white guy who idolizes Jefferson but refuses to recognize the complete record of Jefferson towards blacks….”

            Who refuses to acknowledge Jefferson’s “complete record”? Anyone on this blog? Be specific. Provide evidence. Put up or shut up.

  6. This discussion would be very different if TJ had given freedom to the slaves he owned. Putting his money where his mouth was so to speak, but he did not. I do not look to remove his name from the library system or anywhere, but the lack of any admission or understanding from the Jefferson Council that this is a difficult subject, and an extremely sensitive one, is ridiculous. The core of this is not ‘woke’. No doubt it moves to that position for many, but if you can’t acknowledge the core issue, you aren’t looking for serious discussion.

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