It’s All Over But the Name Calling

The special General Assembly session on transportation collapsed in a heap yesterday, with no one agreeing on much of anything. None of the three major proposals for raising revenue to fund transportation improvements managed to get any traction.

There were three major proposals on the table, one submitted by Gov. Timothy M. Kaine, one by the Democratic-controlled state Senate and one by the Republican-controlled House of Delegates. (Actually, according to press reports, the House trotted out a couple of different ideas.) All died. Predictably, Democrats blamed Republicans, Republicans blamed Democrats and editorial writers wrung their hands at the inability to achieve a consensus.

Here’s the reason that consensus is so difficult to achieve: When the debate is about raising taxes, the issue quickly focuses on who pays. While most of the constituencies involved want more money to spend, they all want someone else to pay. The real estate industry opposes grantor’s taxes. The auto dealer’s lobby oppose car titling taxes. Defenders of the poor oppose the gasoline tax. Richmonders don’t want to pay for roads in Northern Virginia.

As I’ve noted before, politics is all about getting someone else to pay for what you want. With the terms of debate framed the way they are, a consensus is unachievable. The tax hikes are a zero sum game. If someone comes out ahead, someone else loses. When there is no electoral groundswell for higher taxes and the agitation comes overwhelmingly from business interests , the debate inevitably pits one set of business constituencies and regional interests against another — a recipe for gridlock.

The only way to create a political solution is to craft legislation based on user pays principles: If you pay higher taxes or tolls, in return you get improvements to infrastructure that you use. Voters aren’t willing to raise a bunch of money and hand it over to the government — either at the state level or the regional level — where it disappears into a black box where only the special interests can influence how it is spent. Citizens want ironclad guarantees that they get something in return for their money.

As I’ve preached over and over, the first place to start is with the gas tax. The problem with the Saslaw bill is that it would raise a whole lot of money and distribute it via the same arcane and opaque funding formulas and project-selection processes, subject to manipulation by the special interests, that exist today. To win voter trust, we need to set the gas tax not at some arbitrary level but at whatever level it takes to do two things: (a) maintain state roads and bridges, and (b) provide state matching moneys for federally funded projects. And nothing else.

In the short run, such a measure would actually provide citizens a tax cut. That would make it easier to sell politically. Over the longer haul, as maintenance costs escalate, the gas tax eventually would float higher than the 17.5 cents per gallon charged today, bringing more money into the system than we have now. But citizens would be willing to accept those increases because they know that their tax money was paying for their share of road maintenance, not funding boondoggles.

How, then, do we pay for new roads? I’ve explained it all before. Toll roads, whether operated by the state or by public-private partnerships. Congestion pricing corridors. Impact fees. Community Development Authorities. If road projects can’t support themselves in the open marketplace, there is no economic justification for them and they shouldn’t be built. Virginians would soon learn that the transportation “crisis” isn’t a crisis for anyone but the rent seekers who feed at the government trough.


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Comments

  1. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Or you could just raise the taxes on everybody enough to ensure that everybody gets what they want.

    RH

  2. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Hey.. didn’t they try that with abuser fees, and grantor’s taxes, etc and found out they were wrong about what people wanted?

    How do you know they want higher taxes?

    It’s a good think youse in not a politician…. cuz your political lifespan would be measured in nanoseconds.

    🙂

    Name the top 5 URGENT projects that you’d build with higher gas taxes.

    That’s essentially the argument you’d have to make – to be able to raise taxes and hold on to your seat.

    right?

  3. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Put ALL the projects anybody wants on the list. Then raise the money it will take to fund them – ALL.

    You can’t claim that someone wants a project they aren’t willing topay for, therefore they must want new taxes.

    Then when they see the proposed tax bill, offer them the option of having THEIR project taken off the list, and having the total tax bill reduced accordingly.

    Now is the time to act, since most of thel egislators are going to get fired anyway.

    RH

  4. E M Risse Avatar
    E M Risse

    Jim Bacon:

    Good post on the money side of the issue. All good points and all well stated and, as far as we know correct.

    However, as we have noted elsewhere:

    “There are no transport facility solutions that will solve traffic congestion on the Regional basis, NONE. It is not a matter of money or source of money.”

    It is a matter of physics not policy, politics or even intra Regional selfishness.

    Name one Region in the First World that relies primarily on Autonomobiles for Mobilty and Access that has spent money on facilities and improved the overall performance of the transport system without Fundamental Change in settlement pattern.

    We have also said:

    “There are settlement pattern strategies that result in a Balance between existing and affordable improvements in transport system capacity and travel demand.”

    Until citizens understand the need for transport system / settlement pattern Balance there will be no concensus to support any money scheme.

    All the points you make concerning the need for citizens to believe the money is well spent, etc are true but they will not carry the day.

    EMR

  5. Jim Bacon Avatar
    Jim Bacon

    Ed, I agree with you, of course, that no financing system can “solve” Virginia’s access and mobility problems all by itself.

    But I do think it can be part of the solution in three ways.

    (1) Instead of subsidizing Vehicle Miles Driven, a user-pays system will create economic incentives for drivers to change their behavior: drive less, carpool more, avail themselves of mass transit, all of which are necessary though not sufficient conditions for a solution.

    (2) A user-pays system is a key piece of creating a system of charging businesses and households their location-variable costs.

    (3) As people begin paying their location-variable costs… as they understand the impact of transportation on their personal pocketbooks, demand will increase for more transportation-efficient human settlement patterns. That demand in turn will pressure developers and government practitioners to pay more attention to such things as Transit Oriented Development and the evolution of balanced communities.

    As long as “someone else” is paying for transportation improvements, citizens will never demand balanced communities.

  6. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “It is a matter of physics “

    Fine, but in the human world, physics is inextricable from money.

    Conservation of Matter, Conservation of Energy
    and the Laws of Thermodynamics, including entropy, translate directly into the laws of economics.

    RH

  7. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “…a user-pays system will create economic incentives for drivers to change their behavior: drive less, carpool more…”

    So why are we specifically designing the HOT lanes so as to allow people to buy their way OUT of carpools. To allegedly expedite traffic, to make it easier for people to drive more – even if it is more expensive?

    How is transit oriented development going to work when transit becomes a user pays system? If it was user pays today, it would shut down tomorrow, and you know it.

    Garbage ideas. At least be consistent. Garbage.

    RH

  8. E M Risse Avatar
    E M Risse

    Jim Bacon:

    You are right on all three points but as I say repeatedly:

    If it is not also stated in the same breath that there are no facility solutions (short hand for our longer statement above) then those who want to avoid reality will have someone to blame — those who do not want to find a way to raise the money.

    EMR

  9. A first-rate analysis that really disappoints in the finale. The biggest problem is this:
    “If road projects can’t support themselves in the open marketplace”

    What marketplace? Toll roads are about as far away from being a free market as you can get. It is a government sanctioned and enforced monopoly. In the case of VA, you can add “government subsidized” to the list as well. Let’s not forget: the contracts are written to deny competition, not to embrace it.

    The current system is user pays, and everyone is a driver. At least 95% of the population drives — this is the single biggest constituency you could possibly come up with. The fundamental problem is the money stolen to subsidize the 3% who don’t drive. That’s the cause of this bogus transportation “crisis” sham.

    If balkanizing funding is the main objective, how about simply stating that NOVA gas tax money stays in NOVA. Or break it up by county or whatever. The spreadsheets to do so are out there already, it’s easy.

    But that’s not what this is all really, is it? It’s about finding ways to stop growth and prosperity. NIMBY with fancy phrases and big talk.

    And where are the “defenders of the poor” when it comes to Lexus Lanes? I’ve never seen a more let them eat cake idea in my life, yet where are the lefties?

  10. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Non-facility solutions take money too. It is a law of physics.

    It is just as Bacon says, everyone wants someone else to pay, and this boils down to a question of property rights: Do I have the right to my money or do you?

    Governments should not limit individual freedom. But, when individuals take advantage of market failures to limit each other’s freedoms, then the government has a role in correcting the market failure. I should have as much right to decide how much clean air I am willing to pay for as you have to decide how much you are willing to pay to pollute. I have as much right to agitate for more road spending as you have to agitate for less.

    The market system that EMR holds so dear works if ALL costs and benefits are internalized by all actors in the market, not just the ones he picks and chooses to be location variable. Failure to capture external costs or benefits, by definition, results in an inefficient allocation of resources, and an efficient allocation of resources is the Basis for EMR’s argument.

    To alleviate the inefficiency, a price for ALL the externalities has to be established.

    I believe that EMR is correct in saying

    “There are settlement pattern strategies that result in a Balance between existing and affordable improvements in transport system capacity and travel demand.”

    But I also beleive that achieving those settlement pratterns has a price. EMR has nowhere elucidated that cost, and, in any case it will not be established by him: the market will have to decide that.

    So far, the market has failed, and the government may need to step in, but in addition to the governments role in correcting market failures it also has a role in preventing discrimination: No individual or entity shold bear an undue burden in any attempt to improve the public good.

    To meet this Coasian balance we need to establish values and prices for what is being gained and being lost. EMR, on the other hand, is more that willing to gloss this over, frequently stating or implying that certain entities should have profits or rights confiscated, for public betterment.

    This is his way of raising money, without appearing to do so, and yet it amounts to a tax. It is yet another version of “We can get something for nothing”, “Let the other guy pay for what I want.” These go along with the antipodal argument which is that “I hold the high moral ground and so I can set any price on my externality, in order to tip the economics in my favor.”

    Bacon is right: Everyone wants someone else to pay, and therefore a consensus is unachievable. It is directly tied to the physical laws that say you cannot get something for nothing. EMR is in the same crowd, but he either doesn’t recognize or won’t admit it.

    As a result, nothing gets done, and everyone is worse off. We have empowered everyone to the point that anyone has a veto. But, fundamentally this means we are giving them power over things they don’t own.

    It all boils down to a confusion of property rights, but if these are properly restored, defined, and defended, THEN the market can set the proper prices and negotiate deals that provide actionable results. THEN the goverment is in a position to “Reform Land Use” and do it fairly – paying for what needs to be paid for along the way, while ensuring that no one bears an undue burden, and EVERYONE is at least no worse off than before.

    THEN EMR’s statement:

    “Name one Region in the First World that relies primarily on Autonomobiles for Mobilty and Access that has spent money on facilities and improved the overall performance of the transport system without Fundamental Change in settlement pattern.”

    might start to begin to make a little sense, if you strip out the self-conditional truisms.

    Of course if you improve the transport system you will change settlement patterns. It isn’t so clear that you will change them fundamentally. It isn’t clear how much the cost of changing the settlement patterns is really a cost of road improvements, or vice versa. It isn’t clear whether this hypothetical place is at all suitable for anything other than auto transport.

    (Just to answer the challenge I’d suggest Houston: it depends primarily on autos, has spent substantially on highways, has a growing economy and low housing costs.)

    So show a place that hasn’t spent money and improved transportation. Show a place that has improved trasnportation ONLY by changing land use. Show a place where transportation spending has actually kept pace with population + inflation. In fact, show any place that has improved the overall service level of the transportation system, by ANY means.

    So, there ARE partial facility solutions, and the ARE partial land use solutions. DEspite what EMR says or implies (however conditionally) thare are no single solutions, and no free solutions.

    The job in front of us is to solve an enormously complex set of interdependent partial differential equations in such a way as to get the most benefits, and the most freedoms, at the lowest cost. But that means we have to agree on some prices for fundamental things, and who owns them to begin with.

    RH

  11. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “The current system is user pays, and everyone is a driver. At least 95% of the population drives — this is the single biggest constituency you could possibly come up with. The fundamental problem is the money stolen to subsidize the 3% who don’t drive.”

    Bob: even the 3% who don’t drive, drive. they just leave their car at the Metro, which would collapse overnight without its parking fees.

    But you are right about saying What marketplace. You can’t have a market without property rights that are well defined and defended. The government has property rights to our highways, and they are about to give them away in order to create other property rights.

    Usually, we just call this stealing, and we recognize that the receiver of stolen goods has no real rights.

    You are also right when you say

    “But that’s not what this is all really, is it? It’s about finding ways to stop growth and prosperity. NIMBY with fancy phrases and big talk.”

    Stopping growth and controlling prosperity is really a matter of property rights, isn’t it? If you dig through the fancy phrases and big talk what you find is something that sounds a lot like “I want something for nothing”, or “my values are worth more than your values”.

    If your values are worth more, then you should be willing to pay for them. You want more car pools, pay people to use them.

    In developing countries they avea problem with sanitation: there are insuficient facilities, so they are inconvenient, and poor people don;t know how to use them (Neither do rich people, it seems).

    So, to encourage people to use the facilities, some people now hae the reverse of the pay toilet: they pay people to use the facilities, because it is for the public good.

    What a concept.

    RH

  12. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    let’s see.. if we don’t continue to send taxes to Richmond & Washington to spend on things like transit or HOT lanes.. then we call it “balkanizing”.

    and .. the solution… is to send MORE taxes to Richmond & Washington..

    I’m having a gawd-awful time following this reasoning…

  13. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    “But that’s not what this is all really, is it? It’s about finding ways to stop growth and prosperity. NIMBY with fancy phrases and big talk.”.

    Bob – I don’t think it’s even that clever. I think the GA, as an organization, is inept and incapable of effective action. They are useless. The fact that their incompetence feeds into NIMBY hands is just coincidence.

    Unfortunately, even 140 full-time, self-actualized geniuses would not reach consensus in Virginia. The state needs to be split into regions and the regions need to be autonomous.

  14. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “Cannot reach consensus.” Perhaps, the GA cannot reach consensus because their constituents don’t have consensus.

    Let’s start with the Pocahontas Descendants. If they live in much of RoVA, they aren’t facing significant transportation problems. If so, why would they want to pay higher taxes to fix a problem they don’t share? How about to keep the Golden Geese (NoVA and Tidewater) alive and productive? Prior history suggests that this is not necessary. Despite a lack of sufficient infrastructure, these two areas, especially NoVA, just keeps on a growing and a growing. Moreover, the dummies who live there generally seem to support paying extra for what the State is supposed to deliver. Why would you support higher taxes when the Geese will most likely be there anyway?

    There are some among the Ds of P, who like higher taxes, just as there are among the Arrogant Bumpkins (those of us not descended from Pocahontas). But among the ABs are the anti-tax crowd and those who believe that the state religion will cause any tax increase to be spent to enrich some well-connected landowner’s investments than to make measurable improvements in transportation. (E.g., the Columbia Pike Trolley.) Many of these people voted against Mark Warner’s sales tax increase because they feared the state religion. There are those who would support higher taxes, but only for transit.

    In sum, there’s no consensus in Virginia on taxes and transportation. Maybe that’s one reason why the GA cannot agree.

    TMT

  15. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “At least 95% of the population drives…”

    Less that 50% on the population have a legal right to drive.

    “Houston”

    The congestion levels in the Houston Region have gone up every year but two since TTI started keeping track and that may be an accounting error.

    Stop the foolishness.

  16. charlie Avatar

    we have a user pay system — it is called the gas tax and it works ok.

    1. Why are people upset when we take gas tax revenue and spend it on mass transit? Ultimately mass transit should get drivers off the road although now it more about moving poor people around. Washington Metro is a great example of a middle class mass transit system, although only Arlington and Alexandria really benefit from it.

    2. The problem with the gas tax proposal is that OTHER taxes were actually funding the bulk of the money raised. Grantor tax is terrible.

    3. Moving interstates over to tolls isn’t going to solve anything when the problems we have with congestion are in the secondary roads.

    4. I completely agree there is waste in the VDOT numbers, and 50% of the proposed projects are perhaps not needed. We could do a citizens map of Virginia roads to show where WE want help, and how lower cost measures could reduce congestion in NoVA (don’t know about tidewater)

    5. this is a classic case of an activist overstating the goals; what we need is incremental improvement, and a higher gas tax (and small VDOT cuts) would have been a responsible way to put that forward.

  17. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “At least 95% of the population drives…”

    Less that 50% on the population have a legal right to drive.”

    You are technically correct. I apologize for not being clear enough that you can understand.

    ——————————

    The ones that don’t have the right to drive ride with the ones that do.

    Your argument does not change the point which was that virtually everone uses or relies on the roadways and virtually everyone who uses them pays for them one way or another, Therefor the system we have is, in fact, a user pays system.

    By contrast many people pay for transit who never or very seldom use it, and those that do pay only part of the cost. If we are losing money hand over fist on transit, and we want more people to use transit, where is the money coming from? If we think that eventually we will reach nirvana and everyone will ride transit, then at that point you might make the same argument as for roads: since everyone uses it, who cares where the money comes from. But, long before that day comes we are going to have to raise a LOT of money, and at that point it isn’t going to come from auto drivers.

    THEN we won’t hear so much about how people are saving money on transit, because it won;t be subsidized by that other 95% that drive.

    WHETHER we are talking about autos or transit:

    We can argue about how much use one gets for what one pays.

    We can argue about whether use is the only criteria or whether we should include other benefits as a better measure.

    Then we can argue about the value of the benefits received.

    But when you get right down to it, it becomes a question of property rights: how much do we pay for what we get.

    If you wish to elucidate the argument, I’d like to hear what you have to say, but if you only wish to obfuscate, then please stop the nonsense.

    RH

  18. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    I didn’t say Houston was perfect. Their congestion levels have gone up, so has their GNP, and their population. And even Houston has “changed its settlement” pattern, so it isn’t a perfect example. I only said that to get your goat.

    How about Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, or Reston, all of which were created out of nothing from scratch. Course you can’t start from nothing without changing settlement patterns, can you?

    Sorry, NOW I’m talking nonsense.

    RH

  19. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “Ultimately mass transit should get drivers off the road “

    I dont think so. Otherwise how come our roads are so crowded? you get one driver off, and another takes his place.

    No. Mass transit offers additional capacity to roads, not replacement capacity. It offers big peak capacity for one kind of traveler.

    Both of those are worth something, but maybe not what we are paying.

    RH

  20. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “this is a classic case of an activist overstating the goals”

    Bingo.

  21. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Go ride the Trolley in Baltimore or Portland, and then tell me it is a measurable improvement.

    Why screw around with the trolley and have ANOTHER system to deal with?

    Take the money from Tysons project and build a real Metro line down Columbia Pike. It would make a whole lot more sense, but it would probably still enrich a few landowners.

    RH

  22. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    But for new transportation infrastructure, landowner A can only build to a FAR of 0.75. With the new facilities, landowner A can build to a FAR of 3.0.

    Between landowner A and Joe and Jane Suburbanite, who should pay most of the costs (at least up to the difference in value of A’s parcel at 3.0 versus 0.75) for the transportation facilities?

    If A constructs a wonderful building and rents or sells it for lots and lots of money, A is clearly entitled to the profits. But why should A pocket profits (the difference in the value of the parcel at 3.0 versus 0.75) simply because of rezoning unless A has paid for the infrastructure that enables the parcel to have the increased density?

    We need to return to an economy that rewards people and companies that make valuable products and services and not those who can lobby a legislative or regulatory change.

    TMT

  23. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    “Perhaps, the GA cannot reach consensus because their constituents don’t have consensus.”. Yeah – kind of like the United Nations. There will never be consensus (from the constitutents or the politicos) throughout Virginia.

    “If we are losing money hand over fist on transit, and we want more people to use transit, where is the money coming from?”. RH – in fairness, we are losing money hand over fist on the Air Force too. But I still want the planes flying overhead. Don’t the financials of transit depend on how full the buses, trains, etc are? If the subway trains are always full (as it seems in Tokyo) you wouldn’t have to charge too much to get to breakeven. And as gas prices go up, doesn’t that create an “invisible hand” pushing more people onto subways, trolleys, etc? So, this would provide a “positive bias” for transit, no?

    “If A constructs a wonderful building and rents or sells it for lots and lots of money, A is clearly entitled to the profits. But why should A pocket profits (the difference in the value of the parcel at 3.0 versus 0.75) simply because of rezoning unless A has paid for the infrastructure that enables the parcel to have the increased density?”. A shouldn’t profit from the transit. A should find their building in a much higher tax zone representing the additional value brought by transit. If A doesn’t like that then A should sell his/her building and move elsewhere.

    Unfair to increase taxes on A just because A’s building is next to the new Metro stop? LOL. Taxes are unfair. If you don’t believe that just listen to the people carping about Barack Obama’s tax plans. Lots of people are going to be paying more taxes and not just those who are benefitting from some government project like Metro.

  24. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    oh.. but the air force is an “acceptable” use of taxes whereas transit is clearly “unacceptable”.

    How could you be so obtuse Groveton?

  25. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “Between landowner A and Joe and Jane Suburbanite, who should pay most of the costs (at least up to the difference in value of A’s parcel at 3.0 versus 0.75) for the transportation facilities? “

    Now that is a fair question.

    Clearly we don’t want to penalize someone just because they are near Metro, anymore than we should peanlize someone for owning land in a floodplain that we wish to protect.

    If we think the market works then his building will be worth more and assesed more: Problem solved.

    If he is alowed to double or triple the floor area, he is going to pay for that expansion and the additional value that the expansion is worth, due to being near metro.

    How do you peopose to charge him a third time, just because you “allowed” the increased FAR?

    And what about Joe and Jane Suburbanite? Isn’t their home suddenly worth more, too? Isn’t that the song we’ve been hearing due to increased gas prices?

    What is the real difference? The real differnce is that office building Til has cash flow and joe and Jane do not. All they see is higher taxes against impugned value they haven’t “got” yet.

    But they are saving gas every month, and that is a kind of cash flow.

    I’d suggest that the “value of Metro is like light: the intensity diminishes with the square of the distance. So I would suggest that the “Metro Tax” be established as an inverse function of the distance from a station times the amount of cash flow thrown off by the structure.

    If Metro is really valuable, it will pay handsomely, and if all the noise about transit is hot air, then it won’t.

    Joe and Jane won’t owe anything until they sell, And Office Building Til will still have increased profits to pocket – after he pays a fair sahre of what Metro provided.

    You got a problem with that? Or is it you just oppose growth?

    RH

  26. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “we are losing money hand over fist on the Air Force too. But I still want the planes flying overhead.”

    Howzat? We are losing money but I think it’s worth it?

    If you are getting the value you expect, how is that losing money?

    —————————-

    Don’t the financials of transit depend on how full the buses, trains, etc are? If the subway trains are always full (as it seems in Tokyo) you wouldn’t have to charge too much to get to breakeven.

    I think Tokyo transit is private and it makes money. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong.

    Sure, if the trains are alwys full, then they are a deal, I wouldn’t argue with that. Now check out how many seats Metro moves every day and compare that to how many passengers. Their average load factor is barely better than the average car carrying 1.2 passengers. And that doesn’t even count the fact that a lot of passengers are standing during rush hour, and don’t get seats.

    I’d wager that a spur through 7 corners, Baieys Crossroad and out to Annandale would have a higher averae load factor than proposed for Tysons. And we know the proposed load factors are bogus.

    ————————-

    I do not think that Transit should have to be 100% user pays because other people do benefit indirectly.

    I would make the same argument for roadways, and I have.

    The only thing we have to do is figure out who owns those benefits, and what they are worth, same as with the Air Force. One reason we have progressive income tax is that rich people have more to protect.

    I’m not claiming the system is perfect, we recognize property rights and responsibilities imperfectly. But we would have a lot less argument and a lot more “free trade” if we can recognize them better, and protect them better.

    RH

  27. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Don’t increased gas prices constitute a bias towrds transit?

    Only if transit is really more efficient. At Metro’s cost per passenger mile, it is barely an issue. And Metro’s costs will increase with fuel prices, too.

    I don’t know what the right answer is for Metro. It might be that the thing to do is recognize it as peak capacity and only run it during rush hour.

    On the other hand, if it isn’t full, maybe the price is too high, and we should just subsidize it 100%. Then the cars would travel more full, and we would come closer to getting a net public benefit.

    I don’t think anyone is asking the right questions.

    RH

  28. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “How do you pay for NEW roads?”

    I don’t suppose you would propose the same plan for paying for new Metro spurs? Build them privately and pay for them with user fees?

    Don’t hold your breath.

    Private parnerships propose this for roads (in some good cherry picking spots) because they know the value is ther and people will pay for it.

    Evidently, they don’t see the value in transit (unless you are in Tokyo).

    RH

  29. charlie Avatar

    At what point is it worth whining about new taxes?

    A 5 cent gas tax increase is about a $42 increase in your gas tax. That is about 12 trips on the Dulles Toll Road. Or whatever stupid DMV fees they tack on every time I have to renew my plates. Or, it is about the price of a VSP saftey inspection and a car inspection.

    Or more to the point, $42 is about 10 gallons of gas. If you don’t drive 200 miles this year, you’ve already saved what at 5 cent gas tax increase is going to cost you.

  30. Rodger Provo Avatar
    Rodger Provo

    The problem Virginia and the nation
    has today with our failure to deal
    more effectively with our energy,
    growth, planning and transportation
    needs is we do not have leadership
    at the state and national level to
    tackle these problems.

    Some of our state’s and nation’s
    great achievements including the
    creation of a community college
    system, building an interstate
    highway system, creating a national
    park system and developing our
    Hampton Roads ports were the result
    of leadership.

    We little of both today in our
    state or national governments.

  31. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Roger said it best.

    RH

  32. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    As I am sure most of you know the dirty secret about Metro is that over 50% of the rush hour users are already being subsidized to use metro via some form of rebate or metrochecks

    So in fact the rest of us are subsidizing metro already. The poor saps that actually pay to use metro are screwed over twice

    Here is what Metro should do

    Increase ticket prices and parking fees again only during peak periods (basically rush hour) as a pure supply and demand issue. After 8 AM most of the parking lots are full and during peak rush the trains are pretty packed on Orange and Red lines.

    Charge a suburbia feee whenever you use metro to leave DC because the outer station costs are much more expensive to operate.

    Here is my ultimate plan. Eliminate all stations outside of DC with the possible excpetion of the Orange Line corridor (due to the high level of demand in that area). Then install either BRT or High Speed Train similar to a VRE or MARC setup with a limited number of regional stations. DC pays for metro and VA and MD pay for the high speed train/bus system

    NMM

  33. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    I understand that the NVTA held a meeting last night and was blasted by the few speakers who were there, including the other NVTA’s Bob Chase. Most of the speakers blasted NVTA for its “half-baked schemes designed just to spend money.”

    Arlington’s Zimmerman and Fairfax’s Connolly blasted back at those tax-paying vassals who would dare challenge their lords. But it sounds as if the NVTA will be shut down or at least suspended until it finds a taxpayer-provided slush fund.

    What the devil are the poor lobbyists to do?

    TMT

  34. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “over 50% of the rush hour users are already being subsidized to use metro via some form of rebate or metrochecks”

    right. they don’t even pay the half they pay, their boss does, which usually means – we pay.

    Not only that, but there is a black market in those things, I get a rebate on the tickets I buy and sell to my friends, and I still drive and park for free.

    Whew.

    RH

  35. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    I agree with NMM’s plan.

    Implement the Suburbia Fee and call it HOT Lanes…

    allow those that want to carpool/vanpool/commmuter bus a “free” trip. Allow those that want to pay for solo to pay…

    ..and use the revenues to invest in congestion reduction infrastructure.

  36. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    NMM – Your suggestions make sense, but transportation in Virginia is about some well-connected person’s real estate investments. BRT was recommended years ago for the Dulles Corridor. But the Tysons landowners quickly figured out that BRT would not permit the massive increases in density that could possibly occur with rail. A few lobbyists hired and campaign contributions made; then BRT is out. And rail is in. Add Gerry Connolly to the mix and, bingo, the three-station set up for Tysons become four. The fourth added right in front of SAIC, which just happens to be where Mr. Connolly works.

    The second factor was the general belief by many people that BRT was similar to Metrobus. Needless to say, the landowners and their elected official lackeys did not correct this misapprehension.

    The General Assembly should pass a law similar to the one that prevented zoning changes/new development at Lake Tahoe for a number of years. If there were no way that transportation could be manipulated for land use gains for a number of years, people would start thinking about how we could actually make sensible and affordable improvements to transportation networks in Fairfax County.

    TMT

  37. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    “The General Assembly should pass a law similar to the one that prevented zoning changes/new development at Lake Tahoe for a number of years.”

    “In an example under litigation presently, after decreeing that certain lands were allowed no construction, the Lake Tahoe Regional Planning Agency broke up the remnants of the fee simple ownership of property into the unbuildable land and TDR’s that had components of residential development rights, land coverage rights and residential allocations.
    In the Amicus Curiae Brief of Richard Epstein with the Institute for Justice for Bernadine Suitum v. Tahoe Regional Planning Agency pending before the U.S. Supreme Court, the discussion of Transferable Development rights states,
    “These propositions confuse an owner’s right to use her own property with the owner’s obligation to sell it in order to minimize the State’s constitutional duty to provide just compensation for the state-imposed restrictions.”
    (See Suitum v. Tahoe Regional Development Agency 80 F. 3d 359, 9th Cir. 1996.)
    See Ripeness
    TDR’s use one theft as a palliative for another, What government takes away from one person by zoning, it gives to a second person (or to the same person, as in the Penn Central case) for taking away his property.”

    RH

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