Investors Take their Licks from Toll Road Projects

Rt. 288 in Chesterfield County: Untolled, no tolling authority, no transparency, no accountability.
Rt. 288 in Chesterfield County: Untolled, no tolling authority, no transparency, no accountability.

by James A. Bacon

Private investors have pumped about $27 billion into toll-road deals in the United States since 2003, estimates the Wall Street Journal in an article today. Many of them have gone bust. The root problem: Not enough drivers. During the go-go years of the 2000s when traffic counts were soaring and real estate development in resorts and on metropolitan peripheries portended ever-increasing traffic, private investors made a lot of bad bets.

After peaking at three trillion miles in 2007, Vehicle Miles Traveled in the United States embarked upon their steepest and most prolonged decline since World War II. Many of the hoped-for real estate projects stalled or went belly up and the anticipated traffic never materialized. The WSJ points to the example of the Foley Beach Express toll bridge in Alabama. American Roads LLC banked on 10 million drivers in 2012. The actual number: 2.3 million. American Roads filed for bankruptcy protection in June. The article also mentions the Pocahontas Parkway outside Richmond, for which Transurban Ltd. paid the Commonwealth $600 million only to write off its investment several years later.

Some commentators may cite these numbers as evidence that public private transportation partnerships are a bad idea. I draw the opposite conclusion. The system is working exactly the way it should.

State governments and regional authorities have no business bankrolling mega-transportation projects based on highly speculative demand. Taking big risks — rolling the dice — is something that is best left to the private sector. If bets go bad, which many have done, I’d much rather have private investors take the hit than taxpayers.

Nothing against private investors. I wish them well. Profits make the world go round. But multinational infrastructure companies are big boys, and their business models are geared to evaluating and spreading risks. In most cases, they can afford the losses.

Here in Virginia, the McDonnell administration has made a habit of heavily subsidizing speculative projects that the private sector is unwilling or unable to undertake on their own. Thus, the state is putting roughly $1 billion of public dollars into the U.S. 460 “Commonwealth Connector” between Petersburg and Suffolk, which is being built on the hope that massive freight traffic will emanate from the ports of Virginia following the widening of the Panama Canal. Private interests provided a reality check: No one was willing to take the risk that the project would pay its own way. When the state put it its money, it did so with eyes wide open.

While I have serious reservations about that project, which the administration is pushing forward despite significant unresolved environmental issues, at least it is using tolls to recoup a portion of the construction costs, and a tolling authority, the U.S. 460 Funding Corporation, will provide a measure of transparency and accountability by reporting annual ridership figures and financial results. Further, if the numbers fall short of expectations, bond holders will take a hit before taxpayers do. And Virginians will be able to draw the appropriate conclusions about the value of the speculative commitment of capital. McDonnell may be long gone but at least historians will be able to hold his legacy accountable.

Contrast that to the Rt. 288 partial beltway around the southwestern edge of the Richmond region, which also had been billed as an economic development project. The decision was made not to toll the project, therefore there was no occasion to set up an ongoing authority to track ridership and finances. The numbers are all submerged in opaque VDOT statistics and budgets. No one is obligated to break out the numbers for the public; citizens have no way of knowing whether the project lived up to expectations or not. Ten years after it was built, is Rt. 288 a winner or a loser? Nobody knows. Will anyone learn anything from the experience to guide future investments? No, there will be no knowledge gained whatsoever. Virginia faces a similar lack of accountability with the Bi-County Parkway in Northern Virginia, an economic development-driven project designed to serve a hoped-for surge in air-cargo freight from Washington Dulles International Airport as well as population growth over the next 20 years. The Commonwealth Transportation Board has decided not to toll the road, which means that, if the project is built, there will be no tolling authority, no transparency and no accountability.

Public tolling authorities provide some transparency and accountability but not as much as public-private partnerships do. In P3 agreements, the state negotiates performance contracts for levels of service and roadway maintenance. The private-sector concessionaire must hew to those standards or risk significant penalties.

There are still unresolved tensions between transparency and confidentiality during the P3 approval process here in Virginia. Transparency goes dark when the Commonwealth is negotiating terms and conditions with a single vendor. Once a final contract emerges, there is little inclination to re-negotiate even if the public is not happy with it. Still, viewed from a long-range perspective, transparency and accountability are enhanced by tolled P3s. If we’re going to do more mega-projects, we need more private sector involvement, not less. If private investors aren’t willing to put skin in the game, that should tell you something.


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48 responses to “Investors Take their Licks from Toll Road Projects”

  1. I think one more aspect not really investigated much is that tolls – reduce trips and solo trips.

    Someone who might make 5 trips a week (not for work) will start to stack errands for one trip.

    what this is proving is that some trips are truly discretionary and avoidable or at least avoidable at rush hour – and rush hour is where toll companies make their money on many projects that dynamically toll.

    Pocahontas was badly done but I continue to point to the Powhite Parkway and the CBBT which have been around far longer and the CBBT is an excellent example of a true user-pays facility rather than a taxpayer-supported facility – and the funny thing is – everytime I ask those that are opposed to tolls in general about the CBBT – what they think about tolls on the CBBT rather than having taxpayers pay for it – I usually get no response.

    I travel the Northeast corridor from time to time and I am GLAD to pay a toll to be able to get on a highway that almost always is not seriously congested and nothing like I-95 or 495 (before HOT tolls) in the DC area.

    I gladly pay tolls if it gets me a less congested, more reliable trip.

    I truly don’t understand why that’s not a value to others.

  2. NewVirginia Avatar
    NewVirginia

    Great post. Charge a fee and you reduce overconsumption of a free good.

    Reminds me of a story I heard from the start of the British public healthcare system. The demand at the beginning overwhelmed the system as people came in for free treatment of minor cuts or colds. They started charging a nominal fee (can’t remember if it was 1 pound or 10 pounds) to see the doctor and immediately visits dropped way off.

  3. I think the idea that the gas tax is a “user fee” is no longer true.

    People know it’s a tax but they treat it like an “all you can eat” buffet.

    and like if they went to an “all you can eat” buffet and found some items to be extra cost – they’re outraged.

    and the State has not helped. When you go into a grocery store and buy
    stuff – you get a receipt and right there just about the sub-total is the amount of tax . When you get a receipt at a service station – you don’t get that separate tax.. which amount to about 30 cents per gallon (before Va went to a percent per gallon).

    So people really don’t have a clue how much they pay for roads but they do believe whatever they pay entitles them to use all roads and toll roads are extra cost and should be “illegal”.

  4. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    “The system is working exactly the way it should.” There is something weird about the logic here. Bad projects should not be built in the first place — either by government or the private sector — the negative impact on the public good is simply far too great.

    Mr. Bacon conveniently overlooks the reality that a major superhighway tollroad ALWAYS has serious impacts on the PUBLIC’s land and service. They are too big not to.

    It is not the same as if Sears wants to open a store in a bad location. n 8 or 20 mile superhighway involves the state and private landowners because the road must cut through both state and private property. It affects drainage patterns and watersheds that are PUBLIC entitites. It affects air pollution from cars and the air is PUBLIC (Unless Bacon wants to put a use fee on it!).

    He’s right to nab the Journal piece (I wish had had done it myself this morning) but to say that these considerable road failures validate PPP3 is just sheer, utter, unbelievable, incredible BULLSHIT designed as an apology favored by limited government and pro-profit types.

    If a highway fails, everyone is left with a hunk of asphalt or concrete stretching for miles and abusing land use patterns all around. How can the highway be repurposed? It’s not exactly like a grocery store in a strip mall gone bad.

    Jim, maybe you could turn them into gigantic bike paths.

    1. Look, if private investors pumped $600 million into the failed Pocahontas Parkway and lost their shirts, that’s their problem — not the taxpayers’.

      What harm has the Pocahontas Parkway done to the public? Did it jump-start sucky real estate projects that never should have been started? Well, no. Has it hurt the taxpayers? No. Has it provided a transportation alternative for the public. Why, yes, it has.

      A bad mega-project is a bad mega-project regardless of who finances and builds it. What’s your alternative? If you banished the private sector from involvement in such deals, how would you hold public officials accountable to be wise stewards of public moneys?

  5. DJRippert Avatar

    I think a toll road will succeed if:

    1. There is no practical alternative (e.g. Chesapeake Bay Bridge).
    2. People use the road occasionally – such as driving to vacation.
    3. The tolls are very cheap ($.25 – $.50 per trip).

    Other than that – you’ve got a problem. Namely, there are alternate routes to the toll road that are free.

    People hate getting ripped off. And that’s what these P3 crap-fests are – rip offs.

    Peter is exactly right that these crap-fests are using the public’s property. If they couldn’t take land through eminent domain these fiascos wouldn’t be built. The idea that it is only the investors’ money that is lost is absurd.

    The geniuses at VDOT authorized Flour – Transurban to cut down large swaths of decades old tress to build the idiotic Beltway HOT lanes. This reduced the property values of those who once looked out a trees but now look at HOT lane exits. When the HOT lanes fail financially will the investors dig up 50 year old trees and plant them where the original trees once stood?

    I am very glad to hear that these idiotic projects are failing. I hope they all fail. Then companies in the future will know not to even think about getting in bed with the Imperial Clown Show in Richmond.

    1. reed fawell III Avatar
      reed fawell III

      I agree, DJ.

      These private tolls can be used to gouge innocent people. Tolls can be used pay for “private road developers” cost runs, marketing mistakes, and, in the case of the Dulles Toll Road, to pay for other projects that don’t benefit the toll payer but are diverted to other projects that benefit the toll collector. In addition the “private toll road builders” also can make pay themselves out of future tolls by charging to the project up front “assemblage, construction, and financing fees” that go into the pockets of the builder manager before the project fails financially and someone else is left holding bag.

      As folks are starting to figure this out in Fairfax there is growing revolt by “the toll road cash cows”, the folks trying to get to work to earn a living.

  6. Most investor-financed toll roads do not “fail” – they may take longer to provide the expected ROI…

    but DOT-promoted toll roads can “fail” – like the Pocahontas Parkway because the DOTs don’t look at projected traffic counts the same way that investors do.

    Transurban took Pocahontas then wrote it off as a bad investment.

    Had VDOT kept that road and not convinced Transurban to buy it – rumor was that they would have defaulted on the bonds and in turn affected the credit rating of Virginia.

    Why in the world would Transurban agree to take that obviously bad deal in the first place?

    but what’s going on in the toll road world is that even their much more conservative analyses are proving more ambitious than predicted and it may not be just the economy. People don’t like paying more than they feel they have to. They’ll drive 10 miles out of their way to save a nickel on a gallon of gas. They’ll be part of a stampede at Walmart to get a good price on what is often not a stellar product anyhow.

    and they will go 10-20 miles out of their way to avoid paying a toll – on “principle”.

    but the trajectory on toll roads is not going to change.

    the gas tax has died as an effective user fee for roads.

    Go to the DMV website for transportation revenues and verify for yourself that in Virginia – the fuel tax provides about 19% of our transportation dollars.

    http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/pdf/tracking_oct13.pdf

  7. cpzilliacus Avatar
    cpzilliacus

    James A. Bacon wrote:

    State governments and regional authorities have no business bankrolling mega-transportation projects based on highly speculative demand. Taking big risks — rolling the dice — is something that is best left to the private sector. If bets go bad, which many have done, I’d much rather have private investors take the hit than taxpayers.

    On the north side of the creek, the InterCounty Connector (Md. 200) toll road is on track in terms of traffic and revenue after most of it opened to paying traffic about two years ago. Over half of its construction cost and all of its maintenance and operating cost is funded by patrons. Yes, it is a state-owned and operated highway, but the Maryland Transportation Authority (MdTA) non-recourse revenue bonds that paid for most of its construction were raised from the private sector. If the bonds are not paid, the investors may not look to Maryland taxpayers for relief, hence the non-recourse label. MdTA is a “non-budgeted” state agency, governed by a Board chaired by the MDOT Secretary.

    Since this forum is about the Commonwealth of Virginia, the MdTA just today announced something directly relevant to Virginia motorists. It has added an additional $50 million to the Maryland Six Year Program for “initial design and right-of-way acquisition for the project to replace the Governor Harry W. Nice Memorial Bridge (US 301), which connects Charles County, Md., and King George County, Va., across the Potomac River.” Details here.

    1. Interesting. I don’t recall that Virginia has considered non-recourse bonds in any of its road project financings. Do the InterCounty Connector bonds qualify as municipal bonds? Do they carry a measurably higher interest rate?

    2. here’s what I was looking for on the Nice Bridge:

      ” “I’m pleased Governor O’Malley announced today $50 million in funding for design and right-of-way acquisition for the Nice Bridge replacement,
      .
      .
      .

      Construction of the new bridge is estimated to cost nearly $1 billion. The project is not currently funded for construction.”

      where does the money come from to pay for that bridge?

      It’s going to come from tolls – even if the State of Md does it..right?

      I don’t hear DJ railing against tolling the folks not from NoVa..!!!

      😉

    3. cpzilliacus Avatar
      cpzilliacus

      larryg wrote:

      where does the money come from to pay for that bridge?

      It’s going to come from tolls – even if the State of Md does it..right?

      Yes, most (maybe all) of the construction cost will be funded by Transportation Facilities Projects (TFP) Revenue Bonds issued by the MdTA.

    4. reed fawell III Avatar
      reed fawell III

      I hear that the InterCounty Connectors toll road is NOT on track traffic wise. Locally it is called “The Road to Nowhere” instead.

      Why does Gov. O’Malley take credit for it? He had absolutely nothing to do with it. It was built and funded by a GOP Governor over Mayor O’Malley’s virulent objection. Md state democrats never would have build such a road.

      And how clever that the Nice Bridge replacement planning funds were announced days after the election of a Democratic Governor in Virginia. And after O’Malley had stiff armed Virginia’s Republican governor for years.

      How convenient, this public announcement now, this PR campaign flyer that suddenly flutters down into Virginia to show how much the Md. Governor cares about building roads and bridges for the citizens of Virginia.

      Might per chance might it be because he’ll soon run for president?

      How clever and cheap, two birds with a single stone. Is there a better way to butter up and do business with his new found or hoped for friend soon to be Virginia’s Democratic Governor? A Hillary supporter to boot.

      Citizens of Virginia! Beware of a Maryland Governor feeling your pain while crossing the Potomac in a Trojan Horse.

      What leaders we have. Politics for personal power is everything.

      1. geeze Reed:

        Maryland’s Inter County Connector MD200 has solid 40k ADT traffic, $40m/year tolls after two years operation

        2013-10-24: Maryland’s Inter County Connector saw strong growth in traffic in the spring this year achieving solid 40,000 vehicles/weekday patronage over three of five segments with overall traffic at 187,000/weekday adding transactions in all five segments or 37,000 average weekday numbers per segment. May thru’ August the numbers haven’t substantially changed, but compared with same-month-a-year-back the traffic is up a solid 20% to 25%.

        http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/6793

        but he’s the part I do not understand.

        How come the Nice Bridge is totally Md’s responsibility if Va also depends on it?

        and Reed – your narrative here sounds pretty partisan.

      2. I hear that the InterCounty Connectors toll road is NOT on track traffic wise. Locally it is called “The Road to Nowhere” instead.

        Why does Gov. O’Malley take credit for it? He had absolutely nothing to do with it. It was built and funded by a GOP Governor over Mayor O’Malley’s virulent objection. Md state democrats never would have build such a road.

        wait. wait! here’s is what I’m hearing here – the ICC is a failure but Gov O’Malley – a Democrat is taking credit for it but Dems would have never built such a failure of a road…

        😉

        “And how clever that the Nice Bridge replacement planning funds were announced days after the election of a Democratic Governor in Virginia. And after O’Malley had stiff armed Virginia’s Republican governor for years.”

        I’m not getting the point here.. what’s the point?

        “How convenient, this public announcement now, this PR campaign flyer that suddenly flutters down into Virginia to show how much the Md. Governor cares about building roads and bridges for the citizens of Virginia.”

        jesus Reed.. the planning for this bridge has been ongoing for years…long before O’Malley became Gov..

        Might per chance might it be because he’ll soon run for president?

        what? I seriously doubt it but if he was – he’d be trying to make points over a bridge ?

        “How clever and cheap, two birds with a single stone. Is there a better way to butter up and do business with his new found or hoped for friend soon to be Virginia’s Democratic Governor? A Hillary supporter to boot.”

        Reed my man… this sounds pretty partisan guy.

        Citizens of Virginia! Beware of a Maryland Governor feeling your pain while crossing the Potomac in a Trojan Horse.

        What leaders we have. Politics for personal power is everything.

        good GRIEF! O’Malley is a nefarious bad guy because he’s a politician?

        good GRIEF! I dare say that every single Governor of a state – past or present is one of those “politicians”..

        I NEVER say this kind of a personal rebuke to McDonnell for his similar transportation politics…

        why O’Malley and not McDonnell?

        1. cpzilliacus Avatar
          cpzilliacus

          larryg wrote:

          I hear that the InterCounty Connectors toll road is NOT on track traffic wise. Locally it is called “The Road to Nowhere” instead.

          Incorrect. Persons and groups opposed to the project and still angry that they were beaten call it that. But the 40,000 or 50,000 drivers using it daily on weekdays probably do not. See: Maryland’s Inter County Connector MD200 has solid 40k ADT traffic, $40m/year tolls after two years operation.

          Why does Gov. O’Malley take credit for it? He had absolutely nothing to do with it. It was built and funded by a GOP Governor over Mayor O’Malley’s virulent objection. Md state democrats never would have build such a road.

          He could have stopped it after he was sworn-in, but chose not to (Maryland is a “strong governor” state). He was under intense pressure from certain groups in Montgomery County, Maryland and elsewhere to do just that, but politely ignored them.

          “And how clever that the Nice Bridge replacement planning funds were announced days after the election of a Democratic Governor in Virginia. And after O’Malley had stiff armed Virginia’s Republican governor for years.”

          Incorrect. The MdTA has been working closely with VDOT and elected officials in King George County for many years on the Nice Bridge replacement project. Don’t take my word for it – read the MdTA EA here.

          I’m not getting the point here.. what’s the point?

          “How convenient, this public announcement now, this PR campaign flyer that suddenly flutters down into Virginia to show how much the Md. Governor cares about building roads and bridges for the citizens of Virginia.”

          Due to a decision by the British Crown many centuries ago, the Calvert family (the various Lords Baltimore), proprietors of the Colony of Maryland, got ownership of the Potomac River up to the high-water mark on the Virginia shoreline. That means that Maryland (and D.C., once part of Maryland), have responsibility for bridges over the Potomac to the Virginia (and West Virginia) shore.

          1. Thanks CPz – some/most of the complaints about Md and O’Malley, were from Reed not me.

            I did ask why Md is being held “responsible” for the Nice bridge (but I did know that they had been coordinating with VDOT – over the years and did not change tactics because O’Malley was gov.

            On the tolls-funding-transit issue…

            we know this is already happening in Va with the DTR but I recall seeing something at some point about – some monies if excess to guaranteed profits to Transurban on HOT 495/I-95 would go to
            pay for carpool lots, VRE, and other transit.

            Have not been able to find anything now to that effect….

            ICC is clearly not a “failure”. It started off slow but as time has gone by – it delivers what it (and most tollroads) promised – a faster, more reliable trip – for a fee.

            The problem is – that such toll roads are not “profitable”….. “enough” – compared to other ways that investors could invest their money.

            and so 100% privately-financed toll roads are not viable, at least with the downturn in VMT overall and this is probably why we
            are seeing “hybrid” PPP deals where the state is kicking in some level of front-end funding in exchange for the investors to take on the operation of the toll road.

            People perceive this – as the state paying to build the road – and then “giving” it to a private company to charge tolls to generate profits.

            This is a perception that the State is not dealing with very well and it’s undermining public support for what is perceived as privately owned-operated toll roads instead of state-owned tollroads operated by a concessionaire … or pseudo state authority.

      3. reed fawell III Avatar
        reed fawell III

        My comment “Why does Gov. O’Malley take credit for it? He had absolutely nothing to do with it.” was incorrect.

        I had wrongly assumed that O’Malley took office in 2009 after winning the 2008 election. In fact he won the 2006 election and took office in 2007. So while the key approvals for the road were achieved by the prior Governor, the toll road’s construction and operation, and likely too its construction and long term financing, was done under the O’Malley administration. Thus, on assuming office, he presumably had the option to proceed with the road or drop it. And elected to proceed.

  8. cpzilliacus Avatar
    cpzilliacus

    Jim, the bonds that MdTA sold to fund over 50% of the ICC are secured by the “basket” of toll roads and toll crossings operated by the Authority, per standard practice, which (as I understand it) lowers the risk to prospective bondholders and in turn the interest rate. Most (not all) are exempt from Maryland and federal taxes, as revenue bonds issued by state toll road agencies usually are. They have an extensive discussion of the debt outstanding on their Web site here.

    1. DJRippert Avatar

      Will the tolls be removed when the bonds are paid off?

      I also noticed that the toll on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge has been doubled. That seemed like a random tax increase rather than a hike based on any bridge improvements. True?

    2. cpzilliacus Avatar
      cpzilliacus

      DJRippert wrote:

      Will the tolls be removed when the bonds are paid off?

      Unlikely, especially since they revenue bonds are secured by tolls collected at all MdTA toll roads and toll crossings, though Maryland has partially de-tolled some of its roads (such as the I-95 JFK Highway between White Marsh and the Delaware border) and gone to one-way tolling at the Chesapeake Bay, Hatem and Nice Bridges (though the Nice Bridge would likely return to two-way (all-electronic) tolling as part of a new bridge.

      I also noticed that the toll on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge has been doubled. That seemed like a random tax increase rather than a hike based on any bridge improvements. True?

      There are some very expensive projects going on at the WPL (William Preston Lane, Jr.) Memorial Bridge, a/k/a Chesapeake Bay Bridge. Not including more capacity, which is needed. Some projects include:
      . Clean and Paint Structural Steel Westbound Bridge;
      . Suspension Cable Rewrapping and Dehumidification;
      . Repair Substructure Westbound Bridge;
      . Rehabilitate and/or replace the eastbound bridge deck; and
      . New truck weigh/inspection stations in both direction (useful for protecting very expensive infrastructure).

      1. reed fawell III Avatar
        reed fawell III

        I was told that, in addition to normal maintenance and upkeep expenses of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, the new and suddenly drastically increased tolls imposed by Md. Gov. O’Malley were going to be applied to building mass transit systems in Baltimore and other places.

        Is this not true?

        1. reed fawell III Avatar
          reed fawell III

          The silence means its true.

          1. cpzilliacus Avatar
            cpzilliacus

            reed fawell III wrote:

            I was told that, in addition to normal maintenance and upkeep expenses of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, the new and suddenly drastically increased tolls imposed by Md. Gov. O’Malley were going to be applied to building mass transit systems in Baltimore and other places.

            Partially true, but not now. You may be thinking of the recent increase in Maryland motor fuel taxes – the plan is that much of that increased revenue will be used to help fund construction of the Red Line in Baltimore City (like all cities in Virginia, Baltimore City is independent of nearby counties (though it’s the only city in Maryland like that)) and Baltimore County; and the Purple Line in Montgomery and Prince George’s Counties.

            During the administration of Gov. Parris Glendening (in office late 1994 to to late 2002), he ordered toe MdTA to increase its tolls, and ordered the resulting revenue diverted to mass transit subsidies (operating subsidies, I believe, not capital subsidies like those being paid by Dulles Toll Road patrons for Dulles Rail).

            As Moody’s put it in their 2012 review of MdTA finances:

            The indenture allows for funds to flow out of the system, when authorized by the authority. From 2002 to 2007 the authority made annual (fixed) payments to the Maryland Department of Transportation (MDOT), but has not made payments since then.

            Note that while the text says MDOT above, the Maryland Transit Administration was the ultimate recipient of the diverted toll funds. If I recall correctly, between $40 million and $50 million in toll revenue was diverted annually.

    3. that’s the way I understood it. I believe Florida does it the same way.

      so … are people really buying bonds JUST for the ICC if those bonds are secured by revenues from the “basket” ?

      1. cpzilliacus Avatar
        cpzilliacus

        larryg asked:

        so … are people really buying bonds JUST for the ICC if those bonds are secured by revenues from the “basket” ?

        As a practical matter, when the ICC design-build contracts were let in 2008 and 2009, the MdTA’s Transportation Facilities Projects (TFP) Revenue Bonds issued issued in those years were obviously going mostly to fund the ICC (though some of the bond proceeds might have been used for major repair work at some of the other MdTA roads, bridges and tunnels). But there are no bonds that say “ICC” on them.

  9. re: when bonds are paid off….

    what then pays for maintenance and operations?

    roads are never paid for despite what people think.

    1. cpzilliacus Avatar
      cpzilliacus

      larryg asked:

      what then pays for maintenance and operations?

      In Maryland, once it is a toll road (or “Toll Maintenance,” in MDOT-speak), it usually stays that way. MdTA maintains all of I-895 across Baltimore, even though some (short) trips are possible without paying toll. I can only think of one state-owned toll bridge that is now “free,” that’s the Md. 235 Benedict Bridge over the tidal Patuxent River, which was det0lled in the 1950’s. If something is entirely detolled, then maintenance becomes the responsibility of the Maryland State Highway Administration, which maintains all “free” roads in the primary network (unlike in Virginia, Maryland counties maintain nearly all of the secondaries).

      roads are never paid for despite what people think.

      I strongly agree.

      1. reed fawell III Avatar
        reed fawell III

        And I strongly believe such Maryland Tolls are going to skyrocket in the future as disguised general revenue taxes imposed on commuters trying to get to work to earn a living, so that the Md. state government can continue to spend other peoples’ money like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

        1. Reed – do you believe that tolls are going to be collected and spent on something besides roads?

          are you opposed to the concept of tolls dedicated for roads only?

          1. reed fawell III Avatar
            reed fawell III

            Larry –

            I am opposed to private toll roads.

            I am also opposed to tolls paid by road users being applied to purposes other than helping to secure and pay down gov. bonds and thereafter maintain the road on which the tolls are collected.

            I strongly believe that roads are public utilities. That private enterprise cannot be trusted the people money. And that this includes their money that is collected through road tolls. My distrust compounds when private interests or public / private interests can spread tolls out to pay for other projects. This tactic can easily abuse the public trust and public monies.

            I also believe that Government cannot be trusted to use tolls for anything beyond the road where the tolls are located. Otherwise tolls too easily become little more that hidden taxes imposed without proper safeguards. Such as public referendum, or vote by the peoples legislature, or other mechanisms. For without such safeguards toll monies can too easily be used by state officials and/or with private interests for objectives contrary to the public interest, whether they breed waste, inefficiency, soft corruption, or favor trading than amounts to little less that outright bribery.

            I believe this based on what I consider to be long running abuses by private interests in league with Government elected officials that has going on Northern Virginia for a very long time.

            These abuses I believe have given rise to complicated networks built to facilitate back and forth political and monetary favors. The ways are many. This result is a blending of power sharing between public officials and special interests. Job hoping between public and private sectors is one of many tactics.

            Another includes private business working in league with public officials to make public decisions via so called “non-profit public task forces and committees” that serve first and foremost to serve the private business or political interests of its members.

            For details on these subjects see for example articles and certain of the comments found at:

            https://www.baconsrebellion.com/2013/10/subsidies-as-usual-for-mass-transit.html#comments

            https://www.baconsrebellion.com/2013/11/why-conservatives-hate-smart-growth.html#comments
            (Last several of 47 comments here provide deeper background)

  10. re: ” They have an extensive discussion of the debt outstanding on their Web site here.”

    and that is an EXCELLENT link..

    it states this: ” MDTA is subject to a legislatively enacted debt limit of $3.0 billion for bonds secured by toll revenues as of June 30 of any year.”

    and then further down, it gives a summary of the facilities currently bonded as well as the rating agencies ratings of the debt.

    still don’t know where they are going to get the billion for the Nice bridge but I assume there IS a plan because they’ve put money into the design and right-of-way.

  11. My understanding is that Rt. 288 was essentially two projects. The southern portion which connected Powhite/Rt. 76 to I-95 in Chester was completed in 1989, while the northern portion which looped up to I-64 in western Henrico was completed in 2004. Apparently there was some controversy over the routing of the more recent northern segment, originally it was planned to connect more directly to 295 but was diverted westward for some reason (disclaimer: I’m a new Chesterfield resident going off the interwebs here, so please correct me if I’m wrong).

    The main purpose of 288 seems to have been to open up land for new suburban development. VDOT would probably argue that there are long-term factors involved which would make a winner/loser classification premature at this point, only ten years after completion. The better question is probably about 20 years from now, as far as the rate of return on 288. Although (and to your point Jim) I bet VDOT’s projections figured for a lot more growth out west than has materialized to this point.

  12. cpzilliacus Avatar
    cpzilliacus

    JohnS wrote:

    The better question is probably about 20 years from now, as far as the rate of return on 288. Although (and to your point Jim) I bet VDOT’s projections figured for a lot more growth out west than has materialized to this point.

    Would not those investment decisions have been made at least in part based on demographic data from Richmond Regional Planning District Commission and traffic forecasts done by the co-located Richmond Area MPO?

    I am not going to throw stones at either group, since I don’t think they (or other planning agencies across Virginia and the United States) really anticipated the Great Recession that slammed just about everyone during the second term of President George “W” Bush.

    1. reed fawell III Avatar
      reed fawell III

      Okay, now we see where this stuff is coming from.

      1. cpzilliacus Avatar
        cpzilliacus

        As I heard someone say years ago (I don’t remember who, but in any case not my words): “Demographics are destiny.”

        1. reed fawell III Avatar
          reed fawell III

          Still waiting for you to answer my simple question.

          1. cpzilliacus Avatar
            cpzilliacus

            I suppose it was not clear that you were asking “where the stuff is coming from.”

            I don’t know how those regional agencies in Richmond do their work, but here are some reasonable sources that they may take advantage of some of these (in no particular order):

            . The University of Virginia’s Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service.

            . Demographic estimates from the county, city and perhaps town governments that belong to one or both groups (see their Web sites for details).

            . Travel surveys of various kinds conducted to inform their travel demand forecasting process.

            . U.S. Census Bureau, including the American Community Survey.

            . The Bureau of Labor Statistics

            . Traffic count data from VDOT.

            . The USDOT Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

    2. re: ” I bet VDOT’s projections figured for a lot more growth out west than has materialized to this point.”

      never understood why VDOT was qualified to determine where growth would allocate….

      what processes and data would VDOT use to determine the path of growth?

  13. well 2 points.

    1. – Jim Bacon asks where the ROI data is for 288 – a “free road” and non-toll roads are not accounted for in that way …never have been… and probably never will be but VDOT does capture the traffic counts for every road and
    I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anything that relates the number of cars that use a road to some bank-for-the-buck calculation.

    The TTTI calculates lost time due to congestion and even puts a dollar value to it but do they do the opposite and show value-gained by an uncongested or new road?

    2. – When you hear VDOT justify a new road by saying it will be needed to serve the fast growing area of _____ – think about it.

    In ANY region that is expanding, WHERE you put new roads DIRECTS growth to that area….

    but how and why does VDOT decide WHERE to direct growth by picking the location of the new road?

    well.. that’s pretty simple – VDOT just “offers” to a receptive local govt the “opportunity” to have a new road – and the deal is done.

    when a new road is built to basically provide access to new greenfield residential subdivision sites – it’s _ not_ economic development, in my view, – as most new houses consume more in services than they pay in taxes.

    commercial retail and trades do “follow” the rooftops but this is not economic development in the sense of new jobs from a factory or similar were it is the new jobs that are true “economic development”.

    the “economic development” from the commercial retail that follows the rooftops … are not truly economic development in my view. Basically the commercial will usually pay for itself and become a de-facto tax collector for the locality – to generate revenues for the locality to provide schools and other services needed by the new residential growth.

    I’m not opposed to growth – it’s normal, natural and has to occur somewhere but I’m opposed to characterizing new roads as “serving” growth when, in fact, new roads DIRECT to WHERE growth will occur.

    so when a new location road is proposed to “serve growth” – it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy as it does open up greenfield development sites for residential but it’s not at all properly categorized as “economic development” – in my humble view of course. the only purpose for that road – is to convey new suburban homeowners to their jobs somewhere else. Some call that sprawl.

    I just think we ought to be clear about what roads like that actually are doing.

    in the case of 288 – it also is essentially the western connection of a beltway.

    beltways, in general, have multiple legitimate commerce and regional and even national mobility purposes but actually also function in part as generators of suburbs and exurbs… that allocate wherever the beltway goes and has exit ramps – as opposed to people living in denser locales inside the beltways.

    again, not making commentary on the “sprawl” concept – just acknowledging the fact that roads direct growth – not the other way around.

  14. cpzilliacus Avatar
    cpzilliacus

    Peter Samuel of Toll Roads News (located a few miles up U.S. 15 from the Loudoun County border in Frederick, Maryland) wrote this piece which is a follow-up to the WSJ article: Wall Street Journal frontpager on private toller problems in US.

    And also from Peter, this about a chronic toll violator on the Dulles Toll Road who got caught: Virginia man runs up $200,000 debt on Dulles Greenway – now has $150/month for 22 years.

  15. The realist Avatar
    The realist

    Roads are not expected to be profitable, even that fraud Randal O’Toole has admitted that; “Highways are there regardless of economic conditions”. Most road funding comes from property taxes.

    1. cpzilliacus Avatar
      cpzilliacus

      The realist wrote:

      Roads are not expected to be profitable, even that fraud Randal O’Toole has admitted that; “Highways are there regardless of economic conditions”.

      Please elaborate why you make that assertion about Randal O’Toole.

      Most road funding comes from property taxes.

      Certainly not the case in Virginia, where VDOT, which does not get property taxes, maintains nearly everything paved outside of the corporate limits of towns and cities (and even maintains some streets in some of the towns).

  16. Most roads that are toll roads – would not have been funded from property taxes… right?

    The problem with roads is that people believe that no matter how many roads are desired – it’s all “covered” by their taxes – no matter.. how many roads are wanted or how much that tax is capable of building.

    What happens when a state runs out of money to build new roads and has maxed out it’s borrowing ability?

    tollroads – built with private money that wants a rate of return in exchange for providing the money.

    essentially when a state has to borrow to build more roads, they become vulnerable to private tollroads.

    From the state’s perspective -if they have only enough money to build one new road but if they 1/2 fund private toll roads – they can build twice as many.

    That’s how you end up with a US 460 project that will be a hybrid between the state and the private sector and if that arrangement is rejected – there is no road.

    basically the private sector is no interested in building roads unless there is “profit”.

    The Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel is an example of a State-only toll road that is built – not from taxes but from tolls and the tolls pay for construction, maintenance and operations – instead of taxpayers.

    What’s interesting about the CBBT is that it meets the Jim Bacon requirement to demonstrate an ROI – and since it is a non-profit venture, the ROI matches exactly what people pay versus what the get.

    How could you possibly determine the ROI on the CBBT if it were “free” and tax-funded instead? How would you do that?

    1. cpzilliacus Avatar
      cpzilliacus

      larryg wrote:

      The Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel is an example of a State-only toll road that is built – not from taxes but from tolls and the tolls pay for construction, maintenance and operations – instead of taxpayers.

      Virginia has had a fair number of state-owned toll projects – the tradition in the Commonwealth has been to de-toll when (or not long after) the bonds have been paid-off, including the Norfolk-Virginia Beach Expressway (old Va. 44, now I-264); the Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike (I-95 and the north end of I-85); Robert O. Norris Bridge (Va. 3); and the original (two lane) Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel (formerly U.S. 60/Va. 168, now I-64/U.S. 60). Some public-sector owned crossings have been de-tolled, only to be re-tolled later, such as the Coleman Bridge (U.S. 17); Jordan Bridge (Va. 337; re-tolled after construction of a new bridge by a private-sector group which replaced the old municipally-owned structure); and Midtown Tunnel (U.S. 58), also to be re-tolled by a private-sector group.

  17. cpzilliacus Avatar
    cpzilliacus

    larryg wrote:

    The Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel is an example of a State-only toll road that is built – not from taxes but from tolls and the tolls pay for construction, maintenance and operations – instead of taxpayers.

    Virginia has had a fair number of state-owned toll projects – the tradition in the Commonwealth has been to de-toll when (or not long after) the bonds have been paid-off, including the Norfolk-Virginia Beach Expressway (old Va. 44, now I-264); the Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike (I-95 and the north end of I-85); Robert O. Norris Bridge (Va. 3); and the original (two lane) Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel (formerly U.S. 60/Va. 168, now I-64/U.S. 60). Some public-sector owned crossings have been de-tolled, only to be re-tolled later, such as the Coleman Bridge (U.S. 17); Jordan Bridge (Va. 337; re-tolled after construction of a new bridge by a private-sector group which replaced the old municipally-owned structure); and Midtown Tunnel (U.S. 58), also to be re-tolled by a private-sector group.

  18. you have far more comprehensive and detailed knowledge than I and I hope that you stay here and continue to comment especially on transportation issues. thanks!

    Part of the problem with many issues and transportation is one is that issues tend to be sound-bitish in nature – focusing on beliefs and anecdotal info rather than the fuller view – an example of which you provided above with respect to
    toll roads in Va – and their history.

  19. Our BiModal Glideway group is looking for feedback on what others see as the top concern facing transportation today. Is it simply a matter of funding or is there a significant lack of planning? Do zoning rules and regulations hinder our ability to solve mass transit issues? Sound off on http://www.bimodalglideway.com/transportation-feedback/

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