By Dick Hall-Sizemore

Steve Haner and I unofficially tag-team on the state budget. Fittingly, he covers the revenues (taxes) and I cover the spending.

Regarding the revenues available for spending, it is notable what was missing from the presentations by the Governor and Secretary of Finance in their appearances before the money committees last month. There was no mention of the $5.1 billion balance tirelessly touted by the Governor in his public calls for more tax reductions.

In the presentations and charts presented, it was difficult to discern what that unencumbered balance actually was. Using the data in the staff presentation to the Senate Finance and Appropriations Committee, one is able to tease out the $5.1 billion being touted by the Governor. First, there was $2.1 billion. This is hard to follow, but basically it was a balance designated in 2022 for “Additional Taxpayer Relief” and subsequently rolled into the unrestricted general fund balance. However, both the administration and the money committees were carrying it on their spreadsheets as an amount reserved for taxpayer relief and that is how the Comptroller identified it in her annual report to the Governor.  To that $2.1 billion the Governor added the additional $3.0 billion in general fund revenue projected over the official estimate.

That was a valid projection of the general fund balance at the end of FY 2023. However, as both Steve and I have pointed out several times on this blog, that was a gross amount. After deducting for the required deposits to the Rainy Day Fund and the Water Quality Improvement Fund, the appropriation in the “skinny” budget bill enacted last spring, and the amount required to fund the Pass Through Equity Tax previously enacted, the net general fund balance available at the end of FY 2023 was approximately $2.4 billion.

A balance of $2.4 billion is undoubtedly a lot of money, probably a record year-end balance. But it is about half the amount that the Governor frequently claimed would be available.

In addition to the unencumbered balances, the General Assembly had additional sources of general fund money that it could use in developing the 2023 budget bill. For example, the money committees include a transfer of an additional $37.6 million in ABC profits to the general fund. There are also “found” savings in the existing appropriations for FY 2024. A bit item in this category was $259.3 million in “technical savings reflecting the most recent Medicaid expenditure forecast.” In developing a budget, there are a lot of moving parts.

Following are summaries of the major areas in which the General Assembly uses the additional general fund money. The sources for these figures and other data cited in this article are the briefing documents prepared by the staff of the House Appropriations Committee and the Senate Finance and Appropriations Committee.

Tax Cuts–$1.3 billion

Steve Haner has covered this area well in his earlier article.

K-12 Education — $559.2 million

The centerpiece of this package is $418.3 million for “Student Learning and Flexible Operating Support.” Interestingly, the money is not being funneled through the SOQ funding formula. Rather, it is to be dispensed on a per pupil amount, with two-thirds on the basis of the number of free-lunch eligible students and one-third based on average daily membership. No local match is required. The funds are to be used for implementing the Virginia Literacy Act.

It is certainly no coincidence that Governor Youngkin released his plan for spending that money the day after the General Assembly adopted the budget.

It should be noted that the House briefing document terms this appropriation as “one-time payments.” The Governor’s plan calls for localities to hire reading specialists and tutors. Localities are probably going to have trouble finding reading specialists and tutors as it is. If this is truly one-time money, the task will be even more difficult.

Another major component of the K-12 package is $152.3 million to increase the number of support positions funded through the SOQ formula. Finally, there is $54.6 million for a two percent salary increase for SOQ-supported teachers.

Higher Education — $189.8 million.

The bulk of this total, $143.3 million, is provided to “maintain affordable access” to higher education. In this category, $75 million is allocated among the various institutions for general operations. To support need-based undergraduate financial aid, $62.5 million is provided. Finally, there is $5.8 million to enable institutions with nurse training programs to increase faculty salaries in those programs in order to remain competitive.

Special Education Study Subcommittees

The Appropriation Act has language establishing two special joint subcommittees, one on funding for K-12 and one on funding higher education. The K-12 subcommittee is directed to “review and prioritize JLARC recommendations and develop long-range implementation plan.” For the higher education subcommittee the “priority is placed on a review of operations and financial aid funding models.“ The reporting date for the K-12 subcommittee is Nov. 1, 2024. The reporting date for the higher ed subcommittee is not clear.

These subcommittees need to be established and the method of funding K-12 and higher education need serious consideration. However, it is highly unrealistic to expect the work to get done by November 2024. No work will be done this fall—everyone is busy on elections. Besides, due to numerous retirements and primary defeats, many of the current members, who would likely be appointed to such a study committee, will not be around after January.

Nothing will get done through the General Assembly, of course. It is uncommon for subcommittees such as these to do any work between the adjournment of the General Assembly and the ”veto session.” Assuming that the budget is adopted on time, the earliest one could expect these special subcommittees to convene and get to work would be the beginning of June. To expect these subcommittees to grapple with the complex issues involved and come to a consensus in five months would be almost asking the impossible. The most that one could expect would be a request to authorize the subcommittees to continue their work in 2025.

Behavioral Health — $154.6 million

Most of the additional funding is provided for crisis services, adding to that which the Governor proposed in his introduced budget.

Economic Development — $268.6 million

The bulk of this funding is provided for “business ready sites” ($200 million) and the Major Headquarters Grant Fund ($35.5 million).

As alluded to earlier in comments on Bacon’s Rebellion, there is $8.5 million provided to support a cruise ship port-of-call location and related visitor support and tourism in the York River at Yorktown, Virginia.”  The appropriation implements that designation.

Transportation — $150 million

This funding is for the expansion of I-64 from the New Kent/Henrico border to James City County.  The 2022 Appropriation Act provided $110 million for this project and designated another $150 million to be paid out of the FY 2022 revenue balance.

State Employee Salary Increases — $60.6 million

The funding is for a two percent salary increase for state employees and local employees supported by the general fund.

Capital Outlay — $211.3 million

Almost half, $100 million, of the new money in this area is for budget shortfalls in projects already approved. It should be noted that this appropriation is in addition to the $100 million appropriated in 2022 for the first year for this purpose. The next largest item is $36 million for equipment for previously approved projects nearing completion.


Share this article



ADVERTISEMENT

(comments below)



ADVERTISEMENT

(comments below)


Comments

108 responses to “How They Spent That Money”

  1. LarrytheG Avatar

    We have continuing problems with wastewater treatment including CSOs in Virginia that directly contribute to problem in the Chesapeake Bay that we continue to drag our feet on and claim we just don’t have the money – even when we DO! We basically make cleanup of the Bay (and other much needed projects) the enemy for tax cuts. Later, after the tax cuts are done, we’ll say there is just is no money in the budget to clean up the bay unless we have tax increases.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      Because it was one of the mandated encumbrances, I did not list the Water Quality Improvement Fund. I probably should have. About $644 million was deposited there. That goes to help localities upgrade their wastewater treatment systems.

      A dedicated amount for Richmond’s CSO system did not make it, but the city has gotten considerable money in the past.

      There was also significant amounts provided for other water improvement activities.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        I would be remiss in not acknowledging that money is in the budget for wastewater but it’s not enough to really improve much in a shorter span… I know, for instance, Frededericksburg/Spotsy want to upgrade their plant but they cannot get as much as they need yet…. As how_its_made points out, it’s really the responsibility of the folks who are hooked up to water/sewer but the up front costs for upgrading the plants is so high that without state help it would take far longer and many localities would just put it off unless DEQ forced it.

        But really what I was doing is just illustrating that there are ongoing costs that are, as Haner said, built in to the budget to get money when there is a surplus … capital investment projects get accelerated.. like new schools as well as wastewater, CSOs and other needs.. when the revenues
        do exceed projections. It’s not like the State is keeping the excess and storing in a vault and it’s not like they are frittering it away on needless projects either.

        It’s always a matter of prioriites.

        I see this in my work on a citizen panel for an MPO which is basically a regional organization that develops a list of projects they need .. and there is never enough money to build them so they prioritize and rank them and fund the ones they can and the others go unfunded until later on when there might be funding for them. It’s not like they are not needed. They are, but the money is not there unless there is a surplus.

    2. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Those are capital needs tied to fee-based services, and the fees should support the needed investments. That is the situation where you DO use a long-term bond (not your electric bill) and take advantage of the AAA credit rating. You’d be surprised how much has already been done, BTW. Other states are lagging on protecting the Bay.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        We make excuses for not making the investments we KNOW need to be made in our wastewater systems. Like I said, we don’t fund them when we do have the money, then later say we can’t do it without raising taxes … and oh by the way, other states are irresponsible also.

        Right now, we are having a drought. The river in Fredericksburg is running as low as it has ever run but guess what, we’re STILL putting out the same amount of sewage we always have from plants that still are not upgraded that should be. They stripped funding for the RIchmond CSO from the current budget.

        THe “give me my money back now” folks really don’t care about funding things that need to be funded. They resent the taxes to start with and just want their money back.

        Not a way to do responsible governance… IMO

        1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
          Dick Hall-Sizemore

          Why isn’t the Fredericksburg WWTP upgraded?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            It’s got a big up front cost. It’s underway but it was competing in the Fburg budget for a new school and new firehouse… and they were hoping the state had money to help with the upfront costs.

            Part of the problem is these plants were built many years ago to older standards and now the standards are tougher AND the GROWTH has added substantially to the volume they have to treat.

            These plants dump the same amount of treated sewage into the river no matter if the river is in drought. The standards are generally not predicated on drought levels.. they expect degradation at low levels. TO build these plants at standards to deal with droughts would make them even more expensive, so that’s the middle ground.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            It’s actually trying to close some existing and do a brand new regional that includes both
            Spotsylvania and Fredericksburg. It was gonna cost 65 million a couple of years ago. More than could be accommodated in their budget and stay within total debt thresholds for credit rating agencies.

        2. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          Why should the rest of the taxpayers in the state fund what should have been funded by ratepayers in FXBG?

          If the water utility in FXBG were a privately owned utility, would that change anything with regards to using tax dollars to fund this?

          EDIT: I was paying ridiculous sewer rates to fund UOSA…good enough for NoVA? Good enough for FXBG!

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            It’s a problem at virtually every single wastewater treatment plant… that were designed and built to standards that are not up to date.

            The standards apply to all plants public and private but some plants are old and the standards are not up to what they need to be. There are “dirty” wastewater treatment plants all over Virginia and I have not even got to storm water of which most all of NoVa is terrible at… Raw sewage gets dumped into the Potomac every time it rains in NoVa.

          2. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            The water coming out of UOSA was drinkable clean when it was built in the 1970s, and the plant has been upgraded several times since.

            There are very, very few CSOs in NoVA…none in PWC.

            I saw, mandate that FXBG upgrade their plant and charge the ratepayers whatever it costs.

            That’s what happened with UOSA and NoVA. Anyone from the EPA lurking here? Go make FXBG feel the pain!

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            There’s stormwater problems without the CSOs… in most developed areas of NoVa that were built before they had to set aside stormwater mitigation ponds. I don’t know what UOSA is but the FXBG and other plants do charge the users.. the state helps them with the up front costs which then are passed on to the users on a longer term basis. Not a question of EPA or DEQ – it’s a question of raw sewage that’s flowing into the rivers and thence to the bay… Storm water runs from parking lots, pet poop, antifreeze, oil and other toxics get flushed into creeks that then flow into the Potomac..If you live in a house, you are likely contributing to the problem.. no matter FXBG or PG county.

          4. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            If you know ANYTHING about wastewater treatment…you know what UOSA is. Upper Occoquan Sewage Authority. Mandated by the EPA, it replaced many small sewage treatment plants throughout FFX and PWC counties. It was perhaps the most advanced and expensive sewage treatment plant in the country, if not the world, when it was built.

            The water coming out of UOSA is so clean, it’s cleaner than the water in the Bull Run River that it discharges into. You could drink it. Supposedly one of the local politicians did so in the 70s when it opened…there’s supposedly a photo of it.

            The biggest stormwater problem around my house involves a cross-culvert that was eroding my front yard. Since VDOT is useless, I hired someone to line the ditch with recycled concrete to stop the erosion. Nobody from VDOT ever bothered to call me back despite calling them several times about the problem.

            The second biggest stormwater problem around my house involves the culvert under my driveway that won’t drain (there’s at least 4″ of water in it days after the last rain storm) because Verizon screwed up the ditch when they were digging to fix a cable that their fly-by-night FIOS conduit installation contractor damaged.

            I’ve called VDOT about the problem several times. The most that ever happened is that Verizon sent out a guy with a shovel to fix a problem caused by a backhoe. As far as I can tell, nobody from VDOT ever came to inspect it, and they certainly didn’t call me about it to find out if the problem had been corrected.

            I know you think VDOT runs like Swiss watch, my experience is that it runs more like the DC DMV.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar

            I doubt seriously that you could drink UOSA water today especially in a rain event if it was built to 1970 standards. The fact that the EPA mandated illustrates what I’m talking about if you leave that decision up to the locality or even Virginia. The talk the talk but when push comes to shove, they won’t do what needs to be done unless the EPA forces them!

            VDOT is not responsible for any culvert/pipes that are not on VDOT r/w. People get confused about this. VDOT is not perfect but people simply do not understand who is responsible for storm water and culverts and thins. If it runs under a VDOT road, they are responsible for it and they do have an ongoing program to replace culverts.. we have dozens they fix every year but like everything else they don’t have enough money to fix all of it right away. Fully 1/2 of the VDOT budget goes for maintenance and operations… not new roads… and if you look at metrics for road condition, bridges, etc.. they do well compared to other states. What they cannot “fix” is what none of the transportation agencies can fix and that is urban congestion. There is no fix. You build a new road and it actually encourages MORE traffic! People have this idea that they can drive anytime they want and expect no congestion. Not a VDOT problem… a “people” problem…

          6. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            “I doubt seriously that you could drink UOSA water today especially in a rain event if it was built to 1970 standards.”

            As I stated previously, it has been upgraded several times since it was built.

            “VDOT is not responsible for any culvert/pipes that are not on VDOT r/w.”

            These culverts and pipes are most certainly on VDOT r/w.

            Hopefully, VDOT doesn’t have a problem with me having lined THEIR ditch with recycled concrete to correct THEIR erosion problem that was destroying MY property. If they do, well, too bad. I gave them every opportunity to correct the problem.

            “You build a new road and it actually encourages MORE traffic!”

            That was the theory when they built a new road (US 48) in West VA. I wonder if today it even gets 10,000VPD.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar

            Does VDOT have r/w on your property? VDOT is far from perfect, they make mistakes but the issue with pipes and culverts is that if that pipe/culvert is not on VDOT r/w, they disavow it. Lots of conflicts in Stafford over that but in the end, the size of the pipes an design ,etc is on the developer and the county and what happens is the developer will design it for their project and then other projects will get built upstream of them and overwhelm their infrastructure…

            In WVA .. new roads won’t draw more traffic… in NOVA, any new road especially one that reduces travel time for someone, will attract more traffic. There is no solution for it other than letting people choose the times they want to use the roads… really not much different than airline schedules and anything where demand exceeds supply.

          8. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            The cross-culvert that was eroding my yard passes under a VDOT road. So I think it’s theirs.

            The ditch and culvert that passes under my driveway and doesn’t drain is theirs as well. It’s less than 2 feet off the edge of the pavement and is on their R/W according to the drawings I’ve seen. They also mow it, and did some clearing/grading (which didn’t fix the drainage problem). I think they also had to approve the size of the culver that was installed under my driveway.

            In NOVA, there are quite a few places where any sort of detour to an accident or road closure involves a 10 mile or more detour. That’s ridiculous for a populated area.

          9. LarrytheG Avatar

            Could be. They’ve actually come and put rocks in a ditch near me! The problem with VDOT culverts is the same problem developers have and that is VDOT didn’t size them for the runoff that would come from large scale development. When they replace culverts down our way, the new ones are much larger.. they go from pipes to big concrete structures…

            yah… we have accidents EVERY DAY where we are advised to “avoid that area and seek “other” ”

            And we have roads that go down for days/weeks when they are replacing a culvert.

            But I do notice that when a major road or I-95 has a problem they do tend to get on it… quicker but it still take hours…

            Keeping this on budget issues – I don’t think more money can fix a lot of these issues. When someone screws up on I-95.. it’s down… there is no parallel I-95 to detour to!

          10. Vdot has easements that are not in the R/W and they ARE responsible for those too. When the VDOT higher ups say as long as water stays in the ditches, they’re doing their jobs, and allow pipes under roads to get blocked and ultimately collapse damaging roadways–they are wasting tax money. Saturated roadbeds have a fraction of the lifespan of well drained roads. A roadbed saturated for 20 percent of the year loses 80 percent of the useful life it would have had if it were well-drained. (Federal Highway Administration, 2006.)

          11. LarrytheG Avatar

            I think ultimately if a roadway has water on either side more or less on a permanent basis, that VDOT may consider either abandoning it or making the bed higher like a causeway. I know VDOT has abandoned some roads where there is water they cannot control.

          12. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            It’s common for VDOT to repave only the outer edges of a 2 lane road. Can someone tell me why the outer edges of a 2-lane road are falling apart faster than the inside part?

          13. LarrytheG Avatar

            They typically do not have as much bed and asphalt on them and don’t do well with larger vehicles.

            Many of these roads are 1930’s era roads… they don’t really have the bed structure of more modern roads. Basically asphalt laid on dirt/gravel rather than an engineered bed.

            Localities, by the way, can can upgrade these roads on a match basis… They can even take over the roads if they want and get reimbursement from VDOT for maintenance!

            There are only about 4 states where the State level DOT maintains local roads. In most states, the local roads are the county responsibility.

          14. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I wonder if adding shoulders would reduce the deterioration.

            Well aware that most VA 2-lane roads have had no improvements other than asphalt laid over dirt/gravel.

            Basically the equivalent of putting a fresh paint job on rotted wood.

            EDIT: I’ve never seen any posted weight limits on any VDOT road anywhere, except for bridges that have “deficiencies”.

            Other states do, in fact, post weight limits on roads and they enforce them.

          15. LarrytheG Avatar

            costs big money to do that because in many cases, VDOT does not own the additional R/w .. it ends at the ditch! It’s a big long difficult process to get r/w from a string of property owners along an existing road. Can take years and millions of dollars… Counties can ask VDOT to do it if they are willing to share costs. They did that in Spotsy along Route 3 so they could add turn lanes and so they were buying commercially zoned land to get the r/w… they had to use eminent domain for a lot of it… the owners were claiming huge damages to their property even for 12 feet!

            most road widening work similar to new roads… they have to get the r/w, then preliminary engineering and then finally construction. You can see this in their six year plan… it’s usually at least 6 yrs from approval to moving dirt and the money is allocated a little each year a the project progresses… They have almost 5000 individual projects in their 6yr plan. https://syip.virginiadot.org/Pages/allProjects.aspx

          16. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Most of these 2-lane roads without shoulders are in rural areas where the land is much cheaper.

          17. LarrytheG Avatar

            It IS cheaper but it’s the sheer number of property owners to deal with and there are always a few that will not sell and will drag it out for years if they can.

            VDOT will actually do the widening and the eminent domain, if the locality will put the money up. It really is a local responsibility.

          18. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            It’s a local responsibility but how much gas tax does the locality get for that responsibility?

          19. LarrytheG Avatar

            THe gas tax does not entitle the localities to all they want … they are limited to specific percentages and then allowed to prioritize what they want it spent on for local improvements. There are separate pots of money for State Primary , Federal and Interstate roads.

            Ever tried to figure out how much you pay in transportation taxes annually and if your county gets all they should?

            😉

          20. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Being that I’m in NoVA, I’m pretty sure that my county doesn’t get all they should.

          21. LarrytheG Avatar

            all the counties feel that way. Number 1 complaint in Fxburg and Spotsy.. “We’re being cheated”!

            you should look at the VDOT 6yr plan, ya’ll have got some expensive projects: https://syip.virginiadot.org/Pages/allProjects.aspx

          22. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Yea, and how many of those expensive projects are getting funded out of general fund revenue like that I64 project?

          23. LarrytheG Avatar

            General fund? Nope. It’s coming from tranpo tax revenues… it’s your taxes you pay!

          24. LarrytheG Avatar

            THe road will still be operated and maintained by VDOT. And they will 1/2 match the acquisitions but like I said, it can and does take years… Every single piece of property has to be surveyed.

            We have several in the county that had that done. They also have, you’ll like this, a program called “pave in place” where a gravel road is paved but no additional r/w is bought.

            Here’s a JLARC report on VDOT:

            ” Despite local concerns, analysis of Smart Scale decisions over time concluded that selection decisions are generally equitable across regions and types of projects. The program has appropriately allocated funding across regions based on population,”

            https://jlarc.virginia.gov/landing-2021-transportation-infrastructure-and-funding.asp

          25. No room on roads built in the 1800s through 1950ish. THey’ve already been widened into the former shoulders up to the ditches. But if the ditches and outfalls the go to don’t owrk, the roadbed remains saturated and the roads deteriorate faster.

          26. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I wonder if other states, like MD, widened the 2-lane roads when they paved them.

          27. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Pedestrians? Americans are, well, gaining weight.

            Actually, my first real guess is water intrusion, and the accompanying vegetation. Damn crabgrass will worm roots into the cracks, letting in more water that widens the cracks, vice versa, rinse, repeat. Then, one or two drivers wander to the edge while texting, and bingo!, chunks get displaced.

          28. LarrytheG Avatar

            We get bike-riders from NoVa who somehow “think”we are rural with lightly traveled rural roads. Not sure where they get that thinking but if NOVA folk, it’s sorta fits… I say NoVa because no one in their right mind locally would ever try to bike on our two-lane roads… heck you don’t want to try to keep under the speed limit in a car even!

            There is NO shoulder. It is the edge of the asphalt , one foot and a ditch if you’re lucky and these fools are pedaling over hill and dale with folks in cars going 60+ mph going by them or running up behind them …. who can’t even stay off the yellow divider paint!

          29. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            That’s one thing I’ll give Texas — nice rural roads. Almost all have maintained shoulders, and lotsa bicycles. Plus, once out in the country, it’s not uncommon to come up behind someone who will pull to the right and drive on the shoulder to allow you to pass, sometimes when they probably shouldn’t, like cresting a hill…. I kinda half wondered if they was thinking, “This might be cool.”

          30. LarrytheG Avatar

            yes… roads out west typically have more shoulder! Many were built later than roads in the east and “flatter”in general.

          31. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Maryland seems to do a good job with their 2-lane roads. Cross US15 into VA and see the difference.

          32. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            That’s self reported. Nobody from Reason Foundation actually went to all 50 states and looked at the condition of their roads.

            I know for a fact that VDOT’s own pavement condition report has some, shall we say, “inaccuracies”.

            That’s also just pavement condition. There are other factors too. Shoulders. Street lighting. Signal timing. Condition of guardrails. The list goes on.

            I stand by my statement that 2-lane US15 in MD is far superior to 2-lane US15 in VA.

            What “Son of Pocahontas” thought that a 15MPH curve in that road was a good idea?

          33. LarrytheG Avatar

            More than one organization.. in general VDOT gets good marks. It’s actually considered one
            of the best DOTs in the country. Lots of critics… most DOTs have them… never enough ….

          34. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            It’s asking them too much to call someone back, apparently.

            If they can’t even do that most basic of public relations, they have some serious problems.

          35. LarrytheG Avatar

            not their strong suite, I agree.

          36. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Maybe the average Virginian thinks that VDOT is too busy fixing the roads to call them back.

          37. LarrytheG Avatar

            I’ve shared this before but it really lays out how roads in Virginia were initially developed.

            Byrd came along later and instituted the state taking over these roads, some of which were glorified cow paths and with names like “plank road” which was literally true:

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/38f58350cd4c273b5026b0f723369ffc95640137403649d9cb0674bce0ab9340.jpg

            https://www.virginiadot.org/about/resources/historyofrds.pdf

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dcf615cadcd9b885a546f7c91b4e9e9074940be569d49af08672a94f3790f1eb.jpg

          38. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Those bike riders from NoVA are on the 2-lane roads in PWC too.

          39. LarrytheG Avatar

            Oh.. you don’t consider PW to be NoVa? 😉

          40. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            This part of PWC is something like 4 miles from the Fauquier county line. It’s right on the edge.

          41. LarrytheG Avatar

            how many subdivisions around you? served by water/sewer?

          42. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            It’s well and septic out here. Nearest public water and sewer is probably 5 miles away.

          43. Improper drainage.

          44. LarrytheG Avatar

            We’ve had issues up this way with development, and developers will often want to size the infrastructure they build only to what their development will generate. Then more development will occur upstream and the lower infrastructure will get overwhelmed and then spill onto VDOT’s drainage infrastructure built long ago – and overwhelm it. They’ve had to rebuild many pipes and culverts after multiple developments too place that all drained down to a older VDOT structure.

          45. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
            energyNOW_Fan

            In the past I believe it was Alexandria water treatment plant under fire for releases especially rain events…I am old man now but if I ever see a job posting for Alexandria plant engineer I might consider it. One time I helped clean up invasive water chestnuts in the Potomac, oh my that was an unhealthy job in that muck

          46. DJRippert Avatar

            “Since VDOT is useless, I hired someone to line the ditch with recycled concrete to stop the erosion. Nobody from VDOT ever bothered to call me back despite calling them several times about the problem.”

            That’s because VDOT couldn’t figure out a way to outsource the problem to Transurban then let Transurban charge you a fortune forever for the fix.

          47. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            It wouldn’t be funny if it weren’t true! And I am ROTFL!

          48. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            Alexandria has a CSO.

          49. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            That and Arlington would be the only two I’d expect to be a CSO in NoVa.

          50. DJRippert Avatar

            “Raw sewage gets dumped into the Potomac every time it rains in NoVa.”

            Especially true in Old Town Alexandria.

            This has been the case for years.

            The answer?

            Take money from the good people of Salem to fix Old Town’s problems?

            No.

            Raise the prices of sewer in Old Town.

          51. LarrytheG Avatar

            true all over NoVa pretty much

          52. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Most of NoVA was developed after we figured out that combined sewer systems are a bad idea.

          53. LarrytheG Avatar

            CSOs were (and still are) considered a “good” idea where there is dense development and few places to have storm water facilities. What they underestimated was the amount of rainwater
            that would get into the system during large storm events.

            But even conventional wastewater plans like the one in Fredericksburg get overwhelmed with large rainstorms because of what is known as I & I, Inflow and Infiltration (I&I). Separate from that is runoff from development like your situation. Your property and those around you dump stuff like fertilizers, pet poop, oil/antifreeze, etc into the waterways that go to the Potomac and Chesapeake Bay. You’d have to have a sizeable dry pond to capture that water and not have it get into the river and bay.

          54. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Inflow and Infiltration is a problem in NoVA, but I have *never* heard that it causes CSOs at UOSA. It just makes the sewage treatment bills go up.

          55. LarrytheG Avatar

            no no. CSOs are found in urban areas where there is little physical places to put storm ponds and retention ponds. I&I is sewer infrastructure that has cracks in it where rainwater gets in during storm events. If the sewage infrastructure is older, it usually has I&I issues. Most responsible water/sewer authorities allocate funding every year to get to as many as the funding will pay for. They use “pigs” and dye to determine how much a given stretch of pipe “leaks” then they will put a plastic liner in it. https://flow-liner.com/?gad=1

          56. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Yes, that’s exactly what I thought. You won’t find CSOs happening in places like Manassas or Woodbridge because they don’t have combined sewers.

          57. LarrytheG Avatar

            If they become more dense , they’ll have to decide how they will handle stormwater runoff… But nowdays, even in dense development, a storm pond (or an underground structure) is required as a condition of the building permit. Some parking lots these days are built on top of underground storage places…

          58. LarrytheG Avatar

            CSOs are an issue in almost all major urban areas where street gutters go into sewer pipes and not into separate storm water pipes. When it rains, it just overwhelms the sewage treatment plant which can’t do anything other than let the raw sewage into the river.

            The “solution” whether it’s London or Arlington or Chicago, etc is to build the gigantic underground storage reservoirs…

            80% of sewage in the world is not treated, just dumped into the receiving waterway. Only developed countries are actually doing anything about it. All your 3rd world and developing world countries just dump raw sewage , into open trenches and pits…into waterways that are also used for drinking water…

            Not that long ago, that’s what we did until we got this great idea of curb and gutters!

            😉

          59. DJRippert Avatar

            Exactly.

          60. LarrytheG Avatar

            It’s the up-front costs that are actually paid by by user fees.

            Almost all NOVA locations have issues with storm water runoff. There have been efforts to institute taxes to pay to retrofit storm water facilities – these are separate from CSOs and wastewater plants. A lot of prior development in NoVa did not put in storm water facilities and now they need to go back and retrofit which is expensive.

    3. DJRippert Avatar

      Why aren’t Combined Sewer Overflows a local problem?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        That’s a good question but the same question is also asked about sewage treatment facilities in other localities.

  2. Looks like you’ve mixed millions and billions in some of your early paragraphs. Those darned pesky decimal points and related consonants can be troublesome.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      Thanks. I fixed it. It is more the related consonants and my mind having a hard time grasping the concept of billions of dollars that was the problem.

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        One of us should detail for Larry how many billions from fees and local/state/federal taxes are going into these treatment and overflow projects. He would then latch onto something else as the reason Virginia must tax even more!!

      2. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        One of us should detail for Larry how many billions from fees and local/state/federal taxes are going into these treatment and overflow projects. He would then latch onto something else as the reason Virginia must tax even more!!

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          Nope. I’m purely looking at the state of the rivers and the bay and asking if we are achieving what we say we want?

          It’s been pointed out that ultimately the folks that have water/sewer pay the fees associated with it but the localities won’t budget the
          needed dollars for modern facilities because of the high up-front cost.. that often competes with new schools and other needed facilities.

          But you properly nailed it when you said:

          ” The General Assembly has made it hard to run a real surplus. By statute, most unexpended funds are allocated in some way. Some go automatically to reserves. Some go automatically to the Water Quality Improvement Fund. Some agencies are allowed to keep their unexpended balances for the following year. Surpluses can be…flexible. Surpluses are dangerous as voters tend to want the money back or start to agitate for tax cuts.”

          do you not consider these items that will automatically soak up excess revenues not needed?

          I say, just like with VDOT, or many localities… they ALL have lists of things they need but they cannot fund right away so they make a list and get to it when they can..often when they run a surplus.

          Virginia and maybe 7 counties have AAA credit ratings. They’re fiscally responsible. They don’t keep money they don’t need or spend it on stuff they don’t need..for the most part.

          sometimes a county will need multiple things like a new school and a new fire station.. etc… Sometimes, they’ll actually pay off debt and/or get a lower interest rate, etc.

          It’s not irresponsible spending where taxpayers need to get their taxes back!

          public infrastructure and services cost money… no way around it…

  3. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    The General Assembly has made it hard to run a real surplus. By statute, most unexpended funds are allocated in some way. Some go automatically to reserves. Some go automatically to the Water Quality Improvement Fund. Some agencies are allowed to keep their unexpended balances for the following year. Surpluses can be…flexible. Surpluses are dangerous as voters tend to want the money back or start to agitate for tax cuts.

    For the next few weeks, we’ll hear quite a bit about education spending in this new budget. I think the stock Democratic line emerging is that by holding out against “tax cuts for corporations” they were able to add $600 million or so for K-12. But the House of Delegates budget, which included most of the Governor’s tax cuts, was really less than $300 million behind the final K-12 figure. And the “tax cuts for corporations” money instead was directed into the pot for the $900+ million in individual rebates.

    The line item for Direct Aid to local public schools approved this week is 22% higher than just two years ago. Not enough to satisfy some, but not shabby. Looking back two years, the Health and Human Services secretariat was the big winner, as it almost always is. Capital spending is also up.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      One of my responsibilities in my final years at DPB was coordinating the capital budget. The amounts being appropriated for capital are certainly much larger than even a few years ago. Although I have not done a careful analysis of the capital budget lately, my sense is that the increase is not due to the number of projects, but, rather, to the rapid inflation of building costs. That had begun to be a real factor even several years before I retired in 2019.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        VDOT has talked about the same problem. When the economy is hurting, they can get projects done cheap. When the economy is doing better and there is inflation, the same project can cost double.’

        I forget how much VDOT says is unfunded in their budget .. projects they cannot do right now but it’s substantial.

        I’m not “pro” spending. I hate paying taxes especially when I have to pay more! But I also hate paying for electricity and other expenses like schools and law enforcement.. but they are all bills that we need to pay.

    2. DJRippert Avatar

      “Some agencies are allowed to keep their unexpended balances for the following year.”

      Sounds like the concept of zero base budgeting hasn’t made it to Richmond yet.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        In Spotsy, the school system as to come to the BOS to use unexpended budget money for other purposes and/or carry-forward money.

      2. how_it_works Avatar
        how_it_works

        “Sounds like the concept of zero base budgeting hasn’t made it to Richmond yet.”

        Probably because it didn’t exist prior to 1865?

  4. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    Interesting that the bulk of the K-12 money is not tied to SOQ positions and that localities do not have to match. That is not standard operating procedure.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Had not noticed that. Interesting indeed. Is it one-time or recurring money?

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        As I said in the article, the House briefing materials call it “one-time payments”. Because it is not baked into SOQ, it is much more susceptible to change in future years. If a school district is to use this money to hire more reading specialists and tutors as laid out in the Governor’s plan, making it one-time money runs counter to such an approach and is not a commitment to a long-term strategy, which is needed.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          THat’s what I thought as I had forgotten what you wrote. So the schools are likely not hiring any permanent employees with this money. Such money, one might think, is often not going to go to anything important enough to maintain in the future. If it’s 645 million to be spread among about 2000 schools, it’s a substantial chuck of one-time money.. maybe 300K, enough for 4 or 5 full time non-permanent employees or many more part-time folks.. I know a retired teacher who is now tutoring… not sure if it’s in-person or remote… have to ask…

          1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            It is the $418 million that may be one-time. The remainder is for teacher salary increases and additional support staff funded through SOQ. We will know when the Governor presents his 2024-2026 biennial budget whether the $418 million is one-time money. Presumably, that appropriation will be in the base budget and, if it is one-time, the Governor will need to propose an amendment to take it out. If he takes no action, it remains in.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            Thanks… so not crystal clear yet. Our local school board has, in the past, wanted to use carry-over money for salary increases and only a couple on the BOS saw the problem. Prior BOS had actually gone along with it. Basically, if it IS one-time money allocated to the core budget, it’s automatically becoming an embedded part of the next budget.

            If it is one-time money, it’s not a sustainable increase for the schools downstream in future years.

            The difference between one-time money and recurring is pretty significant in budgets.

            I see this problem at both the local and state level and sometimes am not sure if some don’t understand the difference or they do and are hoping others won’t see the issue.

            Youngkin and team did not really clearly lay this out IMO. (Dems play this game also),

Leave a Reply