How Democracy Dies in Darkness: “Posting in Progress”


by Hans Bader

The Virginia legislature is moving toward passage of bills that could make state employment law far more hostile to employers. But the content of the legislation was hidden from voters for a critical period while it was working its way through the General Assembly. The amended text of the bills was not posted until long after it was approved by key committees.

A subcommittee of the House of Delegates approved Friday a bill dealing with sexual harassment in small businesses. It did so on a party-line 5-to-2 vote, which suggests that they bill has a good chance of passing into law. A lawyer, Liam Bissainthe, had argued that the bill, HB 1418, would change the definition of sexual harassment used in lawsuits in in a way that would allow employers to be sued over a single offensive comment, potentially raising First Amendment issues.

To see whether that argument held up, it would have been helpful to read the current version of the bill. But it was not available online to the public yesterday. The committee approved a “substitute” bill for the original. But that substitute had not been posted on the legislature’s web site. Instead, when I clicked on the link to the bill’s current text, I got the message (seen above) that the posting was “in progress.”

Update:  The substitute was posted Monday morning.   SDH

The legislative website also failed to provide the current text of another significant bill, the Senate version of the Virginia Values Act. A key state senate committee approved that bill (SB 868) two days ago after approving a “substitute” for its original text. A key House committee also has approved the bill (as HB 1663).

As introduced, the VVA would revolutionize Virginia discrimination law, turning what once was a pro-business state into an anti-business state in key areas of employment law. The media has reported only on the fact that the VVA will add “sexual orientation” and “gender identity” to state discrimination laws.

But the bill — or at least the publicly available versions of the VVA, including the version actually adopted by the House committee — would do much more than that. As Walter Olson, the openly-gay author of the world’s oldest law blog, notes, the “‘Virginia Values Act,’ sometimes described as merely adding LGBT status to other protected categories, would in fact greatly expand employment law in various unrelated pro-plaintiff ways.”

Publicly available versions of the VVA provide for unlimited punitive and compensatory damage awards against companies that lose any type of discrimination lawsuit. The legislature minimized or hid the cost to taxpayers of the Virginia Values Act. The Impact Statement accompanying the introduced bill described its “Fiscal Impact Estimates” as “None” and said the VVA “presents no fiscal impact to Executive branch agencies.” The Senate version, SB 868, claimed it had no cost at all.

That was breathtakingly dishonest. The bill would impose costs on the state of Virginia by greatly expanding the administrative grievance process for discrimination claims and expanding state employees’ ability to sue — both of which could cost the state.

Nevertheless, the bill appears to be heading to the floor of the Senate rather than being referred to the Senate Finance Committee, where bills with significant costs to the state ought to be referred. The Senate may vote on it even before its text, as amended, becomes available to the public.


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14 responses to “How Democracy Dies in Darkness: “Posting in Progress””

  1. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    I feel compelled to rise in defense of the overwhelmed staff down at the Pocahontas building. The substitute is probably not available because the lawyers and clerks are suffering under the reality that the immediate takes precedent, they had other things to do (and do need to go home at some time.) The full General Laws Committee does not meet until Tuesday afternoon. A substitute is not a substitute unless and until the full committee votes for it, and even then the full House must also adopt it or the original bill is on the floor (useful rule to know).

    The substitute may be available in print version at the bill room, but again, it might not until the full committee actually adopts it. It likely was possible to get a printed copy of the substitute at the the actual subcommittee meeting, and to hear it described at the meeting (in person or on line – the House is now streaming subcommittee meetings.) If the substitute still is not up by tomorrow, that will be concerning. The substitute for SB 868 was printed 1/29 and posted soon thereafter. It has never been instantaneous.

    (And it appeared Monday morning….https://committees.lis.virginia.gov/subcommitteeaction.aspx?ses=201&bil=HB1418)

    I’ve been irritated, too, by how slow some things are posting, but with a record number of bill requests, bills introduced, and rookie legislators gumming up the works, I’ll go with the first and easiest assumption – they are working as fast as they can. The Division of Legislative Services exists to serve the process, not us, and if you are dying of curiosity and can’t wait, come on down to Sacramento on the James.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      Having spent a career in these trenches, I heartily second Steve’s comments. It is only recently, I believe, that subcommittee amendments and substitutes were posted on LIS. It was the practice that these were not “official” until adopted by the full committee. Anyone wanting to see these before they got to the full committee either had to be at the subcommittee meeting when copies were available or get them from the clerk’s office later. (I often resorted to the latter alternative.) So, be patient. More information is available now than ever before.

  2. sherlockj Avatar

    I wonder about the conversations that will take place at the next Amazon board meeting. Would they have picked Arlington for the new headquarters if they had known that Virginia would turn into California? Is it too late to change their minds?

  3. LarrytheG Avatar

    Well, not a whimper here in BR when the GOP was doing the same thing!

    While Jim and I agree on few things, on this – I’m NOT buying the “staff is overworked” excuse.

    Do you want citizens of Virginia to be able to participate in government or not?

    You’d not accept this excuse if security was set up at the GA – so why accept it or promote it for legislation and legislative process?

    If they can put the damn words on paper why can’t it be posted online?

    But I do object to the idea that NOW it’s a problem and all the years prior when the GOP were doing it – it was not.

    Come on – can’t we be bipartisan on anything?

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Doing what “same thing”, taking some time to post things on LIS? I said it was never instantaneous. Yes, sometimes in past years it took a couple of days to see things posted, which is why I go to committee meetings in person to get the paper, or go to the staff offices seeking a copy. Your partisan obsessions reach the level of mental disease, Larry.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        @Steve – they added staff for security. Why can’t they add staff for this?

        This nothing partisan about my view here.

        In the world today – transactions are posted routinely in real time whether it’s your bank deposit or election results.

        It’s simply an irresponsible attitude about choosing to NOT fund enough staff to get this done so that ordinary folks who can’t go to meetings can be informed about how legislation is proceeding and participate.

        This holier than thou attitude about “attending meetings”… ouch!

        This attitude backs up DJR’s claim that the Virginia Way is corrupt to the core.

        I say this whether the GA is run by GOP or Dems – period.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar

        Let me say this on the “instantaneous”.

        It’s NOT the length of time between the transaction and reporting it – as it is if the process continues and more actions are taken before people receive news of the initial action.

        How can any citizen across the Commonwealth be able to follow the legislation and perhaps contact their representative if they are blind to the actions taking place and they finally hear about it after it’s all over with?

        Is this kind of legislative process really “transparent” if citizens
        cannot actually follow and participate in the process?

        Are we making the case here that only lobbyists and other insiders can really partipate effectively and that ordinary schmoes are just out of luck?

        Keep in mind when that asking this is not partisan at all. For instance, what would have happened if the gun rights folks could participate step-by-step in that legislation?

        How about for some of the other legislation that folks on the right are now decrying? Could they participate more effectively if they were able to track the legislation as it moved?

        So how about an apology?

        1. Steve Haner Avatar
          Steve Haner

          Nope. You are being unreasonable and quarrelsome. The process is very open, and people can be very involved and very influential, but it takes more effort than sitting in front of a computer hitting refresh over and over until the bill appears, stewing that it must be some kind of conspiracy or incompetence. Yes, LIS could beef up staff (perhaps a better use of OT dollars than 100 cops in the building) but in general the process is amazingly transparent compared to just a few years ago. Quityerbitchin.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Quarrelsome? Geeze.

            I remember when Richmond Sunlight and VPAP came along – and why in both cases.

            Everything was apparently on paper. VPAP folks had to go get the paper then transcribe it to an online database.

            Similar thing with Richmond Sunlight.

            And our government in Richmond could not deign itself to provide anything better, in fact, fought Richmond Sunlight on providing them timely info they could post – and right now today, essentially are refusing to provide timely status on important and key legislation until after multiple actions have been taken and no opportunity accorded ordinary citizens to know about it much less be able to contact their representatives about it.

            It’s not like it’s not possible to do this, it’s standard now in many other areas of commerce and business and the State has essentially CHOSEN to continue opaque operation on legislation from guns to vehicle inspections to all manner of things that can and do affect people and businesses.

            Businesses hire lobbyists to protect their interests and be there to know the status and directly participate while ordinary citizens are essentially denied the same access because if they really want to know – they have to come to Richmond and be there in person like a lobbyist.

            The actual legislative process is essentially hidden and opaque to citizens.

            It looks like we disagree. I do not think that is “good” government.

            I’m aghast that this is excused and defended. When this happens, it becomes the place where hidden changes are effectively made to legislation without the knowledge of citizens until after the deed is done.

            So NOW, I know what Steve is apoplectic about what the Dems are doing now that they are in charge and even those who are actually in the GA don’t know until after the fact.

            Surely – ya’ll don’t defend this. Lord!

            VPAP and Richmond Sunlight should have never had – had to be developed by private citizens. It was and is a fundamental duty of government to provide such info on a timely basis to citizens.

        2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
          Dick Hall-Sizemore

          Wait until the final week or so of the Session. Things will be moving so fast that the clerks will not have time to post actions before new ones supercede them. That is the nature of a part-time legislature that is required to squeeze all its activities into the confines of a 60-day session. You want more time for citizens to scrutinize legislation? Provide for the GA to stretch its sessions out over a greater part of the year with pauses or recesses when the members go home to hear from constituents. God forbid! That cure would be worse than the problem.

          1. “God forbid! That cure would be worse than the problem.”

            Indeed it would.

    2. idiocracy Avatar

      Why can’t it be posted online?

      Computers are really, really complex machines that may be confusing to some individuals in the employment of the Commonwealth.

  4. johnrandolphofroanoke Avatar
    johnrandolphofroanoke

    I must declare how much I appreciate the writers at Bacon’s Rebellion. The topics discussed here are very important to Virginians. Many of them are complex and hard for the average person to grasp and understand. The writers at Bacon’s Rebellion really do cast an important lamplight on how our government works, sometimes for the people and sometimes anyone but the people. Either way, I am thankful to you all. I bring up the topics you all discuss here all the time with the breakfast gang at the Frost Diner. I wish there was a way to get more Virginians tuned in to these important matters.

  5. Steve is right, Larry. Your arguments are extremely partisan and routinely smack of “And so’s yo’ mama!”, otherwise formally known as the tu quoque fallacy. Try to restrain yourself. If and when you avoid tu quoque, you make better points.

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