Governor Northam, If You Want to See Educational Equity in Schools, Visit Southwest Virginia

Standards of Learning (SOL) pass rate for English, 2017-18. Source: Virginia Department of Education

by James A. Bacon

The Northam administration’s education equity initiative declares that “equity” will have been achieved when outcomes can no longer be predicted on the basis of race, gender, zip code, ability, socioeconomic status or languages spoken at home. The administration does not acknowledge it, but there is a region of Virginia that has largely achieved educational equity — the last place in Virginia that the anti-racist progressives running the Virginia Department of Education (VDOE) would look. But the evidence is right there in its so-called “road map to equity,” “Navigating EdEquityVa.”

I am, of course, referring to far Southwest Virginia, which is, electorally speaking, the reddest region of the state — the religious, culturally conservative, gun-clinging, Trump-voting economic backwater of Appalachia.

In this post I replicate several maps taken from the EdEquity manifesto. The maps are tiny in the VDOE document, so they become blurred when I blow them up to a size where they can be interpreted. While the graphics are fuzzy, the conclusion is crystal clear. Students in Southwest Virginia school systems, among the poorest in the state, pass at higher rates than any other region of Virginia. That holds true not just for demographically dominant whites, but African Americans, Hispanics, the economically disadvantaged, English learners and students with disabilities.

Perhaps Southwest Virginia schools are doing something right — something that bigger, better resourced, more “progressive” school systems in Virginia’s major metropolitan areas are not. Here’s a hint: SW Virginia school districts focus on what works, not implementing leftist ideology.

The map at the top of this post shows the Standards of Learning pass rates for economically disadvantaged students in the 2017-18 school year for mathematics. Why do I focus first on the economically disadvantaged? Because analysis shows that 50% to 60% of the variability in average SOL pass rates between school districts can be attributed to the socioeconomic status of the students’ families. Children in affluent households enjoy significant advantages stemming from having parents who read to their them, employ a wide vocabulary, set higher education expectations, and have the resources to provide educationally enriching experiences. One of the most meaningful measures of a school system is how well they do helping economically disadvantaged students master the concepts and bodies of knowledge needed to function in contemporary society.

A glance at the map atop this pos tshows how well Southwest Virginia students out-perform the rest of the state in math. Here is the comparable map for SOL English scores:

Same pattern as in math. Students in Appalachia may speak with a distinctive accent that it is still fashionable in some quarters to ridicule, but they kick everybody else’s butt in readin’ and ‘ritin’.

Perhaps the region is successful, some might theorize, because the students are mostly white, and as all right-thinking people know, whites enjoy a special privilege in our society. (Yeah, right, tell anyone from Appalachia how privileged they are, and see how they react.) But such a theory flies in face of the inconvenient fact that African Americans and Hispanics out-perform their Virginia peers in math. (The record is spottier for English SOLs).

Mathematics SOL pass rate for African-American students, 2017-18 school year.
Mathematics SOL pass rate for Hispanic students, 2017-18 school year.
Mathematics SOL pass rate for English learners, 2017-18 school year.

We all know the stereotype of rural, Trump-voting hillbillies as racist rednecks who drive pickup trucks and fly Confederate flags. Blacks and Hispanics in Southwest Virginia may have few teachers who “look like them” and schools may not have reframed their curriculum to be culturally inclusive (both parts of the EdEquity catechism), but they still generally out-perform their peers in the rest of the state.

So, what accounts for the difference? What is Southwest Virginia’s special sauce?

Here’s my hypothesis. The schools focus on what works. Bypassing the educrat establishment in Richmond, schools have banded together in the Comprehensive Instructional Program. Using SOLs as a measure, they identify the teachers whose students show the most progress. They study how those teachers teach, and they communicate best practices to other teachers. As it turns out, success at teaching and learning has almost nothing to do with race or ethnicity, nothing to do with the color of teachers’ skin, nothing to do with culturally relevant pedagogy, and nothing to do with acknowledging white privilege and racism.

Poor schools in Southwest Virginia don’t have the luxury of indulging in elite preoccupations with race and social justice. They have no appetite for turning their schools into petri dishes for progressives to test their theories. As I’ve observed in past posts, many rural schools, especially rural schools in western and Southwestern Virginia, have managed to keep their schools open while riding out the COVID-19 epidemic. They just do what schools are supposed to do — teach. I expect the 2020-21 SOL results will tell the tale.


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122 responses to “Governor Northam, If You Want to See Educational Equity in Schools, Visit Southwest Virginia”

  1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
    UpAgnstTheWall

    Your hypothesis – in addition to be unfalsifiable – relies solely on your imagination. Have you ever been into poor, rural schools? Have you ever covered them as a reporter? Attended them as a student? Been at school board meetings where communities are trying to figure out how to close some equitably because people keep leaving at they can’t afford to keep buses running all over the county? Poor schools can’t afford to address race and social justice but they can afford the process of tracking, isolating, and turning into mentors their best teachers?

    Here’s another theory that is based on actual reading of pedagogical study and numbers on the ground. I’m going to use Lee County as an example, but the numbers are pretty much the same for the adjacent Virginia counties in the Southwest part of the state. There are – using the 2010 census – about 4,000 kids under the age of 18 in all of Lee County. As a point of contrast the suburban high school I attended has over 2,000 students alone as of last year. Lee County has two high schools, one more than serves the entire Northside of the city of Richmond. It’s population is well over 90 percent white with Black residence making up 3 percent of the population and other minority groups being fewer in number. I could not find a private school listed for the county on VDOE’s database.

    So, maybe the special sauce is…integration and smaller class sizes! These districts can’t teach these students any different because there’s not any way to effectively shunt them into schools away from their white peers. They have to take all the kids into whatever schools they have, which makes it functionally impossible to have a “Black school” that parents can avoid. And since there’s no private schools for people to purchase their way into segregation. And based on what is generally known about white flight (anywhere between 17 and 30 percent of a neighborhood becoming Black precedes an outflow of white residents) the number of Black students isn’t enough for teachers to feel the need to use harsher punishment to keep the students in line.

    Southwest Virginia proves integrationists right in a major way. It proves small school advocates right in a major way. What it doesn’t disprove in any way, shape, or form is the utility of culturally competent pedagogy.

    Oh, and I have in the past and will continue as the occasion arises to inform people from Appalachia about white privilege. I don’t give a shit how they react – they’re not the only poor people in the world, Hell they’re not the only poor white people. I do love that for people like you the negative reaction of white mountaineers is some proof that white privilege doesn’t exist but the reaction of Black people to being told they didn’t experience racism just means that Black people have bought into the grievance narrative. You bleeding heart conservatives kill me.

    1. You make a worthwhile argument when you talk about the impossibility of segregating blacks and Hispanics in rural schools. I think that idea is worth exploring. It may help explain the lack of a racial gap. But you still have to explain how SW Virginia public schools out-perform all others across the state, and how blacks and Hispanics fare better in the absence of black/Hispanic teachers, culturally sensitive curriculum, that are supposedly so necessary for their educational achievement.

      But you go totally off the rails when you say this: “I do love that for people like you the negative reaction of white mountaineers is some proof that white privilege doesn’t exist but the reaction of Black people to being told they didn’t experience racism just means that Black people have bought into the grievance narrative. ”

      I suggested that Appalachian whites are no strangers to hardship. That’s NOT the same as saying that “white privilege doesn’t exist.” Neither I nor anyone else on this blog has ever said that black people didn’t experience racism. Of course they did. The question is how to create equal opportunity for them today. You think that attacking “systemic racsim” is helpful. I don’t.

      1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
        UpAgnstTheWall

        The thing is they DON’T do better than everyone across the state in general, they outperform other districts in how historically marginalized groups do, but when it comes to White students they do just about the same as the rest of the state. That they do BETTER with those other groups – Black, Hispanic, etc. – brings up their All Students results, but that speaks to my point about integration rather than taking away from it. And that those groups still fare worse than their White counterparts actually reinforces the need for culturally competent pedagogy instead of detracting from it.

        So are you saying here and now white privilege does exist, because if so that’s a much stronger affirmative statement than any you’ve made in the past. And you keep using racism as something that happened in the past tense, which sort of proves my point about the dismissiveness to ongoing racism.

        I think attacking systemic racism is helpful because I think systemic racism exists. You don’t because you don’t. You’re just wrong about that.

      2. Walter Williams addressed these issues in his last syndicated column. I believe he knew his time was short, and felt this was one of the most important issues he could address in his final days.

        From his column:

        Also, in Sowell’s “Education: Assumptions Versus History” is the story of Paul Laurence Dunbar High School, a black public school in Washington, D.C. As early as 1899, its students scored higher on citywide tests than any of the city’s white schools. From its founding in 1870 to 1955, most of its graduates went off to college. Dunbar’s distinguished alumni include U.S. Sen. Edward Brooke, physician Charles Drew and, during World War II, nearly a score of majors, nine colonels and lieutenant colonels, and a brigadier general. Today’s Paul Laurence Dunbar and Frederick Douglass high schools have material resources that would have been unimaginable to their predecessors. However, having those resources have meant absolutely nothing in terms of academic achievement.

        http://walterewilliams.com/black-education-tragedy-is-new/

        1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
          Reed Fawell 3rd

          My recollection is that, in Sowell’s telling, of Dunbar School, the ratio of teachers to pupil was relatively low, that is tending upward to 30 kids or so per class. I will go back and check archives here where I wrote on Dunbar, and perhaps copy it in below.

          My sense in readings generally on subject is that classroom size historically is not key element to learning success, as Matt Hurt suggests below.

        2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Mr. Nathan I came across the very same column from Sowell and Williams recently. The key element of a school’s success is not material resources. The greatest factors are human resources, climate, and the culture of the school. This is something that can be fixed for good if only school leaders would practice the hard work of attracting human capital and fostering a climate/culture of success. Discipline and order are completely absent from today’s school culture.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Does that explain how, in the same school district – like Fairfax or Henrico – there are some schools that are the best in Virginia and others, in the same district that are among the worst?

          2. Unfortunately, logic and reason are rather scarce in this national debate.

            Logic would dictate that in a situation where formerly successful school systems have become educational disasters, one would seek to determined what changed, and endeavor to restore what has been lost that was previously effective.

            In my view, the problem is much larger than just what happens inside the schools. President Lyndon B. Johnson’s war on poverty has produced many unintended consequences that took generations to develop, and will take an equal amount of time to fully reverse. The problem is, we’re still plowing ahead with what doesn’t work.

            My career over the last 20 years has been in information technology. Despite what you may hear about government employees, in the environment where I worked I could not have survived if when tasked with fixing something, I ended up making it worse. But with regard to education, that seems to be the norm, at least for politicians.

            Tearing down statues, changing names of schools, the 1619 project, CRT, etc. None of this will improve education. And when it fails to produce improvement, will we then change direction? I hope so, but seriously doubt it.

          3. LarrytheG – The answer you seek is within the homes. Children spend about 80% of their time at home and the other 20% in school. (and that was pre-COVID-19)

            The 20% of time at school cannot reverse the negative consequences of the 80% if it runs contrary to fostering a climate/culture of success, discipline and order.

            I know for a fact that my children would be reading on or above grade level no matter what school they attended. How do I know that? They were already prolific readers before they went to school.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            Nathan, you can say that but what is the reality and what will we do about that reality? If we say, we’re not responsible, then are we not agreeing for the cycle to continue?

            Is that really solving the problem?

            What good is alternatives to public school “failure” if the charter/voucher/other just bail on the non-parent kids anyhow?

            If the public schools CAN do the kids with parents but not the kids lacking parents, then what are these other non-public schools supposed to be doing?

    2. Matt Hurt Avatar

      I’m not so sure that pupil teacher ratio has a lot to do with it. I apologize, but the table didn’t paste correctly in this interface, but you can see that the region with the highest SOL pass rates in 2019 had the 3rd lowest pupil teacher ratio. The region with the lowest pass rates had the 2nd lowest pupil teacher ratio. If you’d like to reproduce these figures, you may download the data from this website. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/statistics_reports/supts_annual_report/2018-19/index.shtml (Table 17A – 17B)

      Region 1- Central Virginia 13.70
      Region 2- Tidewater 13.79
      Region 3- Northern Neck 13.77
      Region 4- Northern Virginia 13.13
      Region 5- Valley 11.91
      Region 6- Western Virginia 12.75
      Region 7- Southwest 12.16
      Region 8- Southside 12.04

      By the way, I have been a student, teacher, and still am an administrator in Region VII. If you were to look at the historical data, Region VII has not always been at the top of the heap- that’s a recent development.

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        This is a deceptive figure. VDOE is lumping all classes together including small SPED classes, music, art, etc. Lets get the real numbers and then we would have something to compare. The real numbers are found in regular academic core subject areas of English, Math, Science, and History. My bet is Southwest has a significantly reduced student teacher ratio. Whereas in Loudoun my student teacher (Academic 11th grade US and VA History) ratio ranged from 25 to as high as 47. I always got the sweat hogs too because the boss knew I could handle it.

    3. djrippert Avatar

      “Poor schools can’t afford to address race and social justice but they can afford the process of tracking, isolating, and turning into mentors their best teachers?”

      Ahhh, yes. They prioritize the actual education of their students over the indoctrination of those same students.

      “There are – using the 2010 census – about 4,000 kids under the age of 18 in all of Lee County. As a point of contrast the suburban high school I attended has over 2,000 students alone as of last year.”

      Excellent! You understand the population density difference between rural and suburban.

      “I could not find a private school listed for the county on VDOE’s database.”

      Ok, you’re getting warmer. None of these public school only analyses account for the fact that some localities have a fairly high percentage of students attending private schools. Many of these private schools have competitive entrance requirements. One private school I know in Northern Virginia boasts that all of their graduates go on to college. 100%. If those children were in public school they would certainly pull up the averages. It’s a fair hypothesis that in places without a significant private school “system” the private schools do not “cream skim” the most qualified students.

      ” It’s population is well over 90 percent white with Black residence making up 3 percent of the population and other minority groups being fewer in number.” Then, later in your commentary … “So, maybe the special sauce is…integration and smaller class sizes!” I can’t think of even one high school in Fairfax County that doesn’t have at least 5% black and hispanic students. Are they not integrated?

      “It proves small school advocates right in a major way.”

      You strike gold here. I’d argue it’s not the size of the school but the size of the catchment area that feeds the school. When Dad finds himself sitting next to Junior’s algebra teacher at the barber shop on Saturday morning connections happen that don’t happen in mega-urban and suburban schools. Meanwhile, that algebra teacher probably lives in town along with Junior’s Mom and Dad (or just Mom if she’s a single mother). How many teachers at inner-city Richmond schools live in the inner city? Localization can be a powerful force.

      “Oh, and I have in the past and will continue as the occasion arises to inform people from Appalachia about white privilege. I don’t give a shit how they react – ” Another brave anonymous internet poster. Ready to get in the face of people from Appalachia but afraid to use his or her real name when commenting on BaconsRebellion. I’ll tell you what – I spend a lot of time in rural Maryland on the Eastern Shore. One of my favorite hangouts is Buck’s Store in Princess Anne in Somerset County. Friday nights in the summer are best. Let me know when you want to show up and start lecturing people about white privilege. I’ll bring a video camera. As an aside, Somerset County is 40+% black. If you think the black residents will jump up to defend some loudmouth outsider you are in for a huge shock.

      1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
        UpAgnstTheWall

        It depends on how we want to define integration – if we mean all of the schools have at least some students of different backgrounds then sure, Fairfax schools are integrated. If we take it to mean that parents can’t move into specific neighborhoods to avoid “bad schools” or buy their way into mostly segregated schools, then Fairfax probably isn’t integrated and is almost certainly less integrated as a school system than Lee County.

        As I stated, I used to live out in the mountains where I had these conversations face to face. I choose to obscure my identity online because – as I have stated in the past – I don’t want a bunch of strangers to launch some weird harassment campaign against me. If someone wants to take a swing at me because they disagree, fine, but I don’t want to open my family up to being the target of SWATting because some awful reddit fascist stumbled on this blog and decided they didn’t like my take on race mixing.

        But sure, you just let me know when you get a group of folks (post vaccine, obviously) at Buck’s who want to talk race politics and I’ll show up. I do expect to be compensated with at least a meal for my time.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          So I ask the same question, I’ve been asking and that is why does Fairfax and Henrico and others have the best and some of the worst schools in the SAME school district?

          There are 30-40 point SOL differnces in reading and math in Fairfax and Henrico between schools – why?

          1. djrippert Avatar

            Larry, I don’t know every elementary or middle school in Fairfax County. However, I do know all the high schools. I even graduated from one. So, please name the Fairfax County high school that is among the worst. Or, do you mean “the worst” within the county? Because if the worst school in the county is still in the top 25% in the state then what is your point?

          2. Matt Hurt Avatar

            Larry, if you were to do an analysis of the relationship between final course grades and SOL outcomes, you’d have a big part of the answer. Typically, there is a pretty good correlation between this index and overall pass rates on the SOL test. Lower performing classes/schools/divisions tend to have a much higher percentage of students who get a final grade of A or B to fail their SOL tests. This means that the expectations for student achievement in those places are significantly lower than the state’s expectations.

            Grades are a measure of student achievement relative to the teacher’s expectations. These expectations can and often are influenced by the culture of the school, the leadership, etc. SOL scores are a measure of student achievement relative to the state’s expectations. When these two things don’t line up, that tells us that there’s a difference in expectations, and more often than not, these differences in expectations yield lower SOL pass rates.

            To provide you with a personal example of how this is detrimental, please consider that when my daughter was in 2nd grade, she was issued a brand spanking new, green as a gourd teacher. All first quarter, my daughter brought home nothing but straight A’s in math. My wife and I thought everything was peachy, so my daughter was able to do as she pleased after school. At the end of the quarter, my daughter took her first benchmark assessments, and much to my chagrin, I learned that she scored below the division average on that assessment. Thinking it could have been a fluke or possibly test anxiety, my wife (a second grade teacher in another classroom at the time) sat her down and quizzed her on those skills. Sure enough, she had not mastered them, which told us the benchmark results were reliable, but her grades were certainly not. Had we known that she was not progressing, we would have worked with her after school. The A’s awarded by the teacher masked this problem, and we lost a whole nine weeks of interventions that we could have applied. Unfortunately, many parents don’t understand how all of this works. When they see good grades, they just assume everything’s fine.

            To UpAgnstTheWall’s point about racism, this data also points this out in that typically, the expectation index (sum of grade point values divided by the sum of SOL proficiency values) is lower for black students than white. There is a general relationship among all these values that point to the fact that in divisions where the expectations for white and black students vary less, they have a smaller SOL pass rate gap in the performance of the two subgroups. In those divisions that have a greater gap in the expectation indices of the two groups, they also tend to have a greater gap in the performance of those groups.

            I have witnessed many factors that impact these differences in expectations at the classroom level. Some of it relates to leadership. If a teacher hands out to many low grades (as earned by the students), the principal fusses at that teacher, and then miraculously, the grades significantly improve next marking period. This doesn’t mean that the students actually performed better in the real world, but that the teacher maybe used more effort in the calculation of the grade than achievement. In other instances, if these values are off, and no one tells the teacher this is a bad thing, then why would the teacher change his/her procedures. Most teachers don’t even consider the relationship between their students’ final grades and their SOL proficiencies.

            But regardless of the factors that drive these differences in the classroom, when you look at the entire school system, I believe one of two factors cause these differences. The first is lack of knowledge that this particular problem exists. The second factor is that folks, for whatever reason, don’t believe that some kids can perform to the level of others. Unfortunately, this tends to divide students by race and class, which leads to greater differences in performance among the subgroups.

            Most of our principals spend the biggest part of their day running around their schools putting out fires. Unfortunately, we give principals a lot of imperfect human beings to lead (teachers, students, parents, community members). There is much conflict among these constituents, and they work diligently to manage that conflict while trying to keep the wheel on the bus turning round and round.

            Most of our central office folks, especially in our smaller divisions, spend so much time dealing with the following topics that they don’t have as much time to keep “the main thing the main thing”.

            -state and local compliance. Despite the fact that state and local educational laws/regulations put in place these compliance measures to address things such as student achievement, usually they serve more as a distraction than they actually help keep the train on the tracks.

            -the disparate desires of school boards and the school community. The more mission critical goals an organization has, the fewer things it can accomplish. In general, we expect our public schools to take care of every aspect of the child, and by the way, to also teach them readin’, ritin’ and rithmetic’.

            All of these issues are experienced by all 132 public school divisions in our Commonwealth, and each has their own problems. Some divisions focus more on these specific problems, and have been able to overcome them more than others, but those problems persist even there, but at lower rates/severity than elsewhere.

            If anyone would like to discuss this further, please Google Matt Hurt and CIP to find my email address and we can set up a discussion. It should be found on the first page yielded by the search result. I am more than happy to lay out the rational for these arguments in much more detail.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            Matt, you said a lot in that response and I may have several responses as I read it and re-read it and see your responses.

            I much appreciate your role in this program and your willingness to discuss it here.

            Your point about expectations, grades versus accessments checks with my discussions with active K-6 teachers. And the teachers know it, at least the veterans do – that the moment of truth comes when the SOLs are done.

            And there is opposition to the SOLs as too “high stake” and efforts to make assessment more informal but maintain the purpose of the SOLs in measuring faithfully.

            This program is not well explained in my view. I can’t tell what the particular schools are or how this method of instruction compares and contrasts with other systems and so I cannot
            really put much faith in it – to support it and advocate for it to spread to other systems.

            Finally, when we talk about parental involvement. It is totally true that kids with it – do better and kids without it do worse but it’s also true, if we use the lack of parental involvement as a reason why we can’t help that child, he/she will grow up and have kids just like himself and the cycle will repeat and taxpayers will pick up the entitlement and incarceration tab.

          4. Matt, Thanks you for participating in this discussion. I found particularly illuminating your comments on the relationship between grades and SOL scores. It should be obvious to everyone that grades are far more subjective than SOL scores, varying widely by teacher and school. (Grade inflation is real. Some schools are more like Switzerland in that regard, others more like Venezuela.) Handing out A’s to everyone may provide a temporary salve to a student’s self esteem, but can be highly detrimental if the A conceals the fact that that student is not mastering the material.

            I am particularly interested in the concept of the “expectation index” as measured by the gap between grades and SOLs. Do you have solid data on the expectation index, either local or statewide in Virginia?

          5. Matt Hurt Avatar

            Jim, yes sir, I have the local data.

          6. “Several years ago, Project Baltimore began an investigation of Baltimore’s school system. What they found was an utter disgrace. In 19 of Baltimore’s 39 high schools, out of 3,804 students, only 14 of them, or less than 1%, were proficient in math. In 13 of Baltimore’s high schools, not a single student scored proficient in math. In five Baltimore City high schools, not a single student scored proficient in math or reading. Despite these academic deficiencies, about 70% of the students graduate and are conferred a high school diploma — a fraudulent high school diploma.”

            – Walter Williams

            http://walterewilliams.com/black-education-tragedy-is-new/

          7. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
            Reed Fawell 3rd

            As to Nathans comment at 9:55 am: “Several years ago, Project Baltimore began an investigation of Baltimore’s school system. What they found was an utter disgrace. In 19 of Baltimore’s 39 high schools, out of 3,804 students, only 14 of them, or less than 1%, were proficient in math.”

            Several years ago, I had a very long conversation with a Baltimore school teacher who reported on the horrifying conditions he and others encountered in Baltimore classrooms, including intimidation by the teacher’s union as to political candidates that teachers were expected to vote for in elections and the force feeding of teachers and students with anti-white and anti-American ideology.

            Baltimore’s public school were a litany of horrors, according to this liberal minded young teacher who had participated in both of Barack Obama’s presidential campaigns. Part of that discussion is found here in BR archives.

            With regard to Matt Hurt’s 7:09 comment.

            “Lower performing classes/schools/divisions tend to have a much higher percentage of students who get a final grade of A or B to fail their SOL tests.”

            It seems this grade inflation is also, far more often that not, a sure sign of a failing class or institution in higher education as well. Indeed, I believe grade inflation is the central cause of rot in American schools, colleges and universities.

            For example, in STEM incompetence cannot be hidden, so graduates in STEM have much higher employment rates that graduates in other courses where incompetence is routinely hidden on a massive scale by institutions. It is fraud really, doing enormous harm.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar

            Matt and I did get together and he has provided a plethora of information for me to understand and learn.

            The main point here is that if this group has found a better way to educate economically disadvantaged kids than the public schools in places like Fairfax and Henrico – it needs to be supported and promoted.

            One of my biggest complaints about public schools – especially large districts with many schools is the disparity in SOL scores between the schools.

            It makes no sense that the same district with the same administrators, same teaching resources, materials and protocals and they end up 40 point differents in SOL scores between schools in the same district.

            I’m also a skeptic of would-be competitors who claim results but won’t transparently provide them. If we think alternatives to the existing public schools failures are better then we need to show it and explain the how and why – not just claim better results.

          9. Matt, Are you allowed (and willing) to share Expectation Index data? This is a matter that I see no one else discussing. If so, please contact me at jabacon[at]baconsrebellion.com.

        2. djrippert Avatar

          Interesting that you went from, “Oh, and I have in the past and will continue as the occasion arises to inform people from Appalachia about white privilege. I don’t give a shit how they react – ” to “talk race politics”.

          Down the shore politics and religion are only discussed among people who know each other well, if at all. An attempt to “talk race politics” would probably result in nothing more than being told, “well, you take it easy, now” as the listener walked away. Informing someone you don’t know of their white privilege might well lead to an invitation out to the parking lot behind Buck’s for a further discussion of the topic.

          UATW – when you stay calm you make good points. When you start getting blustery you don’t. And before anybody else on this blog says it … yeah, I know, me too.

          1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
            UpAgnstTheWall

            Well, yeah, when else would the situation arise other than when the topic is race or race politics? And if you think more than one person didn’t consider inviting me out back regarding the matter, you’re wrong. Who in the Hell just walks up to random strangers and starts telling them they have privilege? I mean, again, if that’s what you want, I can do that, too. You can round up as many locals as you want who don’t think white privilege exists and I can tell them they’re wrong. I still expect my meal.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            okay . Most of what I have checked is the elementary schools and I’ve posted the data and will again if you want.

            There are significant disparities in the SOL scores.

            I think there are in the high schools also but will have to verify.

            But my point and my question is WHY are there as much as 40 point difference between two elementary schools in the same school district – and especially so in Fairfax which actually does have some of the best performing elementary schools in Virginia and the nation?

      2. DLunsford Avatar

        Well said sir! “Ahhh, yes. They prioritize the actual education of their students over the indoctrination of those same students.” This is pure poetry! And your “You strike gold here……….” paragraph took me back to my own small town school system in the 1960-70s. I spend a lot of time doing outdoor adventure treks in south-west VA, even volunteered once many years ago at the Wise RAM clinic. You really get to know the locals that way. I too would relish seeing anyone lecturing these folks on white privilege.

        1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
          UpAgnstTheWall

          Why? What interesting thing do you think would happen?

  2. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
    UpAgnstTheWall

    Your hypothesis – in addition to be unfalsifiable – relies solely on your imagination. Have you ever been into poor, rural schools? Have you ever covered them as a reporter? Attended them as a student? Been at school board meetings where communities are trying to figure out how to close some equitably because people keep leaving at they can’t afford to keep buses running all over the county? Poor schools can’t afford to address race and social justice but they can afford the process of tracking, isolating, and turning into mentors their best teachers?

    Here’s another theory that is based on actual reading of pedagogical study and numbers on the ground. I’m going to use Lee County as an example, but the numbers are pretty much the same for the adjacent Virginia counties in the Southwest part of the state. There are – using the 2010 census – about 4,000 kids under the age of 18 in all of Lee County. As a point of contrast the suburban high school I attended has over 2,000 students alone as of last year. Lee County has two high schools, one more than serves the entire Northside of the city of Richmond. It’s population is well over 90 percent white with Black residence making up 3 percent of the population and other minority groups being fewer in number. I could not find a private school listed for the county on VDOE’s database.

    So, maybe the special sauce is…integration and smaller class sizes! These districts can’t teach these students any different because there’s not any way to effectively shunt them into schools away from their white peers. They have to take all the kids into whatever schools they have, which makes it functionally impossible to have a “Black school” that parents can avoid. And since there’s no private schools for people to purchase their way into segregation. And based on what is generally known about white flight (anywhere between 17 and 30 percent of a neighborhood becoming Black precedes an outflow of white residents) the number of Black students isn’t enough for teachers to feel the need to use harsher punishment to keep the students in line.

    Southwest Virginia proves integrationists right in a major way. It proves small school advocates right in a major way. What it doesn’t disprove in any way, shape, or form is the utility of culturally competent pedagogy.

    Oh, and I have in the past and will continue as the occasion arises to inform people from Appalachia about white privilege. I don’t give a shit how they react – they’re not the only poor people in the world, Hell they’re not the only poor white people. I do love that for people like you the negative reaction of white mountaineers is some proof that white privilege doesn’t exist but the reaction of Black people to being told they didn’t experience racism just means that Black people have bought into the grievance narrative. You bleeding heart conservatives kill me.

    1. You make a worthwhile argument when you talk about the impossibility of segregating blacks and Hispanics in rural schools. I think that idea is worth exploring. It may help explain the lack of a racial gap. But you still have to explain how SW Virginia public schools out-perform all others across the state, and how blacks and Hispanics fare better in the absence of black/Hispanic teachers, culturally sensitive curriculum, that are supposedly so necessary for their educational achievement.

      But you go totally off the rails when you say this: “I do love that for people like you the negative reaction of white mountaineers is some proof that white privilege doesn’t exist but the reaction of Black people to being told they didn’t experience racism just means that Black people have bought into the grievance narrative. ”

      I suggested that Appalachian whites are no strangers to hardship. That’s NOT the same as saying that “white privilege doesn’t exist.” Neither I nor anyone else on this blog has ever said that black people didn’t experience racism. Of course they did. The question is how to create equal opportunity for them today. You think that attacking “systemic racsim” is helpful. I don’t.

      1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
        UpAgnstTheWall

        The thing is they DON’T do better than everyone across the state in general, they outperform other districts in how historically marginalized groups do, but when it comes to White students they do just about the same as the rest of the state. That they do BETTER with those other groups – Black, Hispanic, etc. – brings up their All Students results, but that speaks to my point about integration rather than taking away from it. And that those groups still fare worse than their White counterparts actually reinforces the need for culturally competent pedagogy instead of detracting from it.

        So are you saying here and now white privilege does exist, because if so that’s a much stronger affirmative statement than any you’ve made in the past. And you keep using racism as something that happened in the past tense, which sort of proves my point about the dismissiveness to ongoing racism.

        I think attacking systemic racism is helpful because I think systemic racism exists. You don’t because you don’t. You’re just wrong about that.

      2. Walter Williams addressed these issues in his last syndicated column. I believe he knew his time was short, and felt this was one of the most important issues he could address in his final days.

        From his column:

        Also, in Sowell’s “Education: Assumptions Versus History” is the story of Paul Laurence Dunbar High School, a black public school in Washington, D.C. As early as 1899, its students scored higher on citywide tests than any of the city’s white schools. From its founding in 1870 to 1955, most of its graduates went off to college. Dunbar’s distinguished alumni include U.S. Sen. Edward Brooke, physician Charles Drew and, during World War II, nearly a score of majors, nine colonels and lieutenant colonels, and a brigadier general. Today’s Paul Laurence Dunbar and Frederick Douglass high schools have material resources that would have been unimaginable to their predecessors. However, having those resources have meant absolutely nothing in terms of academic achievement.

        http://walterewilliams.com/black-education-tragedy-is-new/

        1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
          Reed Fawell 3rd

          My recollection is that, in Sowell’s telling, of Dunbar School, the ratio of teachers to pupil was relatively low, that is tending upward to 30 kids or so per class. I will go back and check archives here where I wrote on Dunbar, and perhaps copy it in below.

          My sense in readings generally on subject is that classroom size historically is not key element to learning success, as Matt Hurt suggests below.

        2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Mr. Nathan I came across the very same column from Sowell and Williams recently. The key element of a school’s success is not material resources. The greatest factors are human resources, climate, and the culture of the school. This is something that can be fixed for good if only school leaders would practice the hard work of attracting human capital and fostering a climate/culture of success. Discipline and order are completely absent from today’s school culture.

          1. Unfortunately, logic and reason are rather scarce in this national debate.

            Logic would dictate that in a situation where formerly successful school systems have become educational disasters, one would seek to determined what changed, and endeavor to restore what has been lost that was previously effective.

            In my view, the problem is much larger than just what happens inside the schools. President Lyndon B. Johnson’s war on poverty has produced many unintended consequences that took generations to develop, and will take an equal amount of time to fully reverse. The problem is, we’re still plowing ahead with what doesn’t work.

            My career over the last 20 years has been in information technology. Despite what you may hear about government employees, in the environment where I worked I could not have survived if when tasked with fixing something, I ended up making it worse. But with regard to education, that seems to be the norm, at least for politicians.

            Tearing down statues, changing names of schools, the 1619 project, CRT, etc. None of this will improve education. And when it fails to produce improvement, will we then change direction? I hope so, but seriously doubt it.

          2. LarrytheG – The answer you seek is within the homes. Children spend about 80% of their time at home and the other 20% in school. (and that was pre-COVID-19)

            The 20% of time at school cannot reverse the negative consequences of the 80% if it runs contrary to fostering a climate/culture of success, discipline and order.

            I know for a fact that my children would be reading on or above grade level no matter what school they attended. How do I know that? They were already prolific readers before they went to school.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            Nathan, you can say that but what is the reality and what will we do about that reality? If we say, we’re not responsible, then are we not agreeing for the cycle to continue?

            Is that really solving the problem?

            What good is alternatives to public school “failure” if the charter/voucher/other just bail on the non-parent kids anyhow?

            If the public schools CAN do the kids with parents but not the kids lacking parents, then what are these other non-public schools supposed to be doing?

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            Does that explain how, in the same school district – like Fairfax or Henrico – there are some schools that are the best in Virginia and others, in the same district that are among the worst?

    2. Matt Hurt Avatar

      I’m not so sure that pupil teacher ratio has a lot to do with it. I apologize, but the table didn’t paste correctly in this interface, but you can see that the region with the highest SOL pass rates in 2019 had the 3rd lowest pupil teacher ratio. The region with the lowest pass rates had the 2nd lowest pupil teacher ratio. If you’d like to reproduce these figures, you may download the data from this website. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/statistics_reports/supts_annual_report/2018-19/index.shtml (Table 17A – 17B)

      Region 1- Central Virginia 13.70
      Region 2- Tidewater 13.79
      Region 3- Northern Neck 13.77
      Region 4- Northern Virginia 13.13
      Region 5- Valley 11.91
      Region 6- Western Virginia 12.75
      Region 7- Southwest 12.16
      Region 8- Southside 12.04

      By the way, I have been a student, teacher, and still am an administrator in Region VII. If you were to look at the historical data, Region VII has not always been at the top of the heap- that’s a recent development.

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        This is a deceptive figure. VDOE is lumping all classes together including small SPED classes, music, art, etc. Lets get the real numbers and then we would have something to compare. The real numbers are found in regular academic core subject areas of English, Math, Science, and History. My bet is Southwest has a significantly reduced student teacher ratio. Whereas in Loudoun my student teacher (Academic 11th grade US and VA History) ratio ranged from 25 to as high as 47. I always got the sweat hogs too because the boss knew I could handle it.

    3. djrippert Avatar

      “Poor schools can’t afford to address race and social justice but they can afford the process of tracking, isolating, and turning into mentors their best teachers?”

      Ahhh, yes. They prioritize the actual education of their students over the indoctrination of those same students.

      “There are – using the 2010 census – about 4,000 kids under the age of 18 in all of Lee County. As a point of contrast the suburban high school I attended has over 2,000 students alone as of last year.”

      Excellent! You understand the population density difference between rural and suburban.

      “I could not find a private school listed for the county on VDOE’s database.”

      Ok, you’re getting warmer. None of these public school only analyses account for the fact that some localities have a fairly high percentage of students attending private schools. Many of these private schools have competitive entrance requirements. One private school I know in Northern Virginia boasts that all of their graduates go on to college. 100%. If those children were in public school they would certainly pull up the averages. It’s a fair hypothesis that in places without a significant private school “system” the private schools do not “cream skim” the most qualified students.

      ” It’s population is well over 90 percent white with Black residence making up 3 percent of the population and other minority groups being fewer in number.” Then, later in your commentary … “So, maybe the special sauce is…integration and smaller class sizes!” I can’t think of even one high school in Fairfax County that doesn’t have at least 5% black and hispanic students. Are they not integrated?

      “It proves small school advocates right in a major way.”

      You strike gold here. I’d argue it’s not the size of the school but the size of the catchment area that feeds the school. When Dad finds himself sitting next to Junior’s algebra teacher at the barber shop on Saturday morning connections happen that don’t happen in mega-urban and suburban schools. Meanwhile, that algebra teacher probably lives in town along with Junior’s Mom and Dad (or just Mom if she’s a single mother). How many teachers at inner-city Richmond schools live in the inner city? Localization can be a powerful force.

      “Oh, and I have in the past and will continue as the occasion arises to inform people from Appalachia about white privilege. I don’t give a shit how they react – ” Another brave anonymous internet poster. Ready to get in the face of people from Appalachia but afraid to use his or her real name when commenting on BaconsRebellion. I’ll tell you what – I spend a lot of time in rural Maryland on the Eastern Shore. One of my favorite hangouts is Buck’s Store in Princess Anne in Somerset County. Friday nights in the summer are best. Let me know when you want to show up and start lecturing people about white privilege. I’ll bring a video camera. As an aside, Somerset County is 40+% black. If you think the black residents will jump up to defend some loudmouth outsider you are in for a huge shock.

      1. DLunsford Avatar

        Well said sir! “Ahhh, yes. They prioritize the actual education of their students over the indoctrination of those same students.” This is pure poetry! And your “You strike gold here……….” paragraph took me back to my own small town school system in the 1960-70s. I spend a lot of time doing outdoor adventure treks in south-west VA, even volunteered once many years ago at the Wise RAM clinic. You really get to know the locals that way. I too would relish seeing anyone lecturing these folks on white privilege.

        1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
          UpAgnstTheWall

          Why? What interesting thing do you think would happen?

      2. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
        UpAgnstTheWall

        It depends on how we want to define integration – if we mean all of the schools have at least some students of different backgrounds then sure, Fairfax schools are integrated. If we take it to mean that parents can’t move into specific neighborhoods to avoid “bad schools” or buy their way into mostly segregated schools, then Fairfax probably isn’t integrated and is almost certainly less integrated as a school system than Lee County.

        As I stated, I used to live out in the mountains where I had these conversations face to face. I choose to obscure my identity online because – as I have stated in the past – I don’t want a bunch of strangers to launch some weird harassment campaign against me. If someone wants to take a swing at me because they disagree, fine, but I don’t want to open my family up to being the target of SWATting because some awful reddit fascist stumbled on this blog and decided they didn’t like my take on race mixing.

        But sure, you just let me know when you get a group of folks (post vaccine, obviously) at Buck’s who want to talk race politics and I’ll show up. I do expect to be compensated with at least a meal for my time.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          So I ask the same question, I’ve been asking and that is why does Fairfax and Henrico and others have the best and some of the worst schools in the SAME school district?

          There are 30-40 point SOL differnces in reading and math in Fairfax and Henrico between schools – why?

          1. djrippert Avatar

            Larry, I don’t know every elementary or middle school in Fairfax County. However, I do know all the high schools. I even graduated from one. So, please name the Fairfax County high school that is among the worst. Or, do you mean “the worst” within the county? Because if the worst school in the county is still in the top 25% in the state then what is your point?

          2. Matt, Thanks you for participating in this discussion. I found particularly illuminating your comments on the relationship between grades and SOL scores. It should be obvious to everyone that grades are far more subjective than SOL scores, varying widely by teacher and school. (Grade inflation is real. Some schools are more like Switzerland in that regard, others more like Venezuela.) Handing out A’s to everyone may provide a temporary salve to a student’s self esteem, but can be highly detrimental if the A conceals the fact that that student is not mastering the material.

            I am particularly interested in the concept of the “expectation index” as measured by the gap between grades and SOLs. Do you have solid data on the expectation index, either local or statewide in Virginia?

          3. Matt Hurt Avatar

            Jim, yes sir, I have the local data.

          4. Matt Hurt Avatar

            Larry, if you were to do an analysis of the relationship between final course grades and SOL outcomes, you’d have a big part of the answer. Typically, there is a pretty good correlation between this index and overall pass rates on the SOL test. Lower performing classes/schools/divisions tend to have a much higher percentage of students who get a final grade of A or B to fail their SOL tests. This means that the expectations for student achievement in those places are significantly lower than the state’s expectations.

            Grades are a measure of student achievement relative to the teacher’s expectations. These expectations can and often are influenced by the culture of the school, the leadership, etc. SOL scores are a measure of student achievement relative to the state’s expectations. When these two things don’t line up, that tells us that there’s a difference in expectations, and more often than not, these differences in expectations yield lower SOL pass rates.

            To provide you with a personal example of how this is detrimental, please consider that when my daughter was in 2nd grade, she was issued a brand spanking new, green as a gourd teacher. All first quarter, my daughter brought home nothing but straight A’s in math. My wife and I thought everything was peachy, so my daughter was able to do as she pleased after school. At the end of the quarter, my daughter took her first benchmark assessments, and much to my chagrin, I learned that she scored below the division average on that assessment. Thinking it could have been a fluke or possibly test anxiety, my wife (a second grade teacher in another classroom at the time) sat her down and quizzed her on those skills. Sure enough, she had not mastered them, which told us the benchmark results were reliable, but her grades were certainly not. Had we known that she was not progressing, we would have worked with her after school. The A’s awarded by the teacher masked this problem, and we lost a whole nine weeks of interventions that we could have applied. Unfortunately, many parents don’t understand how all of this works. When they see good grades, they just assume everything’s fine.

            To UpAgnstTheWall’s point about racism, this data also points this out in that typically, the expectation index (sum of grade point values divided by the sum of SOL proficiency values) is lower for black students than white. There is a general relationship among all these values that point to the fact that in divisions where the expectations for white and black students vary less, they have a smaller SOL pass rate gap in the performance of the two subgroups. In those divisions that have a greater gap in the expectation indices of the two groups, they also tend to have a greater gap in the performance of those groups.

            I have witnessed many factors that impact these differences in expectations at the classroom level. Some of it relates to leadership. If a teacher hands out to many low grades (as earned by the students), the principal fusses at that teacher, and then miraculously, the grades significantly improve next marking period. This doesn’t mean that the students actually performed better in the real world, but that the teacher maybe used more effort in the calculation of the grade than achievement. In other instances, if these values are off, and no one tells the teacher this is a bad thing, then why would the teacher change his/her procedures. Most teachers don’t even consider the relationship between their students’ final grades and their SOL proficiencies.

            But regardless of the factors that drive these differences in the classroom, when you look at the entire school system, I believe one of two factors cause these differences. The first is lack of knowledge that this particular problem exists. The second factor is that folks, for whatever reason, don’t believe that some kids can perform to the level of others. Unfortunately, this tends to divide students by race and class, which leads to greater differences in performance among the subgroups.

            Most of our principals spend the biggest part of their day running around their schools putting out fires. Unfortunately, we give principals a lot of imperfect human beings to lead (teachers, students, parents, community members). There is much conflict among these constituents, and they work diligently to manage that conflict while trying to keep the wheel on the bus turning round and round.

            Most of our central office folks, especially in our smaller divisions, spend so much time dealing with the following topics that they don’t have as much time to keep “the main thing the main thing”.

            -state and local compliance. Despite the fact that state and local educational laws/regulations put in place these compliance measures to address things such as student achievement, usually they serve more as a distraction than they actually help keep the train on the tracks.

            -the disparate desires of school boards and the school community. The more mission critical goals an organization has, the fewer things it can accomplish. In general, we expect our public schools to take care of every aspect of the child, and by the way, to also teach them readin’, ritin’ and rithmetic’.

            All of these issues are experienced by all 132 public school divisions in our Commonwealth, and each has their own problems. Some divisions focus more on these specific problems, and have been able to overcome them more than others, but those problems persist even there, but at lower rates/severity than elsewhere.

            If anyone would like to discuss this further, please Google Matt Hurt and CIP to find my email address and we can set up a discussion. It should be found on the first page yielded by the search result. I am more than happy to lay out the rational for these arguments in much more detail.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar

            Matt, you said a lot in that response and I may have several responses as I read it and re-read it and see your responses.

            I much appreciate your role in this program and your willingness to discuss it here.

            Your point about expectations, grades versus accessments checks with my discussions with active K-6 teachers. And the teachers know it, at least the veterans do – that the moment of truth comes when the SOLs are done.

            And there is opposition to the SOLs as too “high stake” and efforts to make assessment more informal but maintain the purpose of the SOLs in measuring faithfully.

            This program is not well explained in my view. I can’t tell what the particular schools are or how this method of instruction compares and contrasts with other systems and so I cannot
            really put much faith in it – to support it and advocate for it to spread to other systems.

            Finally, when we talk about parental involvement. It is totally true that kids with it – do better and kids without it do worse but it’s also true, if we use the lack of parental involvement as a reason why we can’t help that child, he/she will grow up and have kids just like himself and the cycle will repeat and taxpayers will pick up the entitlement and incarceration tab.

          6. “Several years ago, Project Baltimore began an investigation of Baltimore’s school system. What they found was an utter disgrace. In 19 of Baltimore’s 39 high schools, out of 3,804 students, only 14 of them, or less than 1%, were proficient in math. In 13 of Baltimore’s high schools, not a single student scored proficient in math. In five Baltimore City high schools, not a single student scored proficient in math or reading. Despite these academic deficiencies, about 70% of the students graduate and are conferred a high school diploma — a fraudulent high school diploma.”

            – Walter Williams

            http://walterewilliams.com/black-education-tragedy-is-new/

          7. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
            Reed Fawell 3rd

            As to Nathans comment at 9:55 am: “Several years ago, Project Baltimore began an investigation of Baltimore’s school system. What they found was an utter disgrace. In 19 of Baltimore’s 39 high schools, out of 3,804 students, only 14 of them, or less than 1%, were proficient in math.”

            Several years ago, I had a very long conversation with a Baltimore school teacher who reported on the horrifying conditions he and others encountered in Baltimore classrooms, including intimidation by the teacher’s union as to political candidates that teachers were expected to vote for in elections and the force feeding of teachers and students with anti-white and anti-American ideology.

            Baltimore’s public school were a litany of horrors, according to this liberal minded young teacher who had participated in both of Barack Obama’s presidential campaigns. Part of that discussion is found here in BR archives.

            With regard to Matt Hurt’s 7:09 comment.

            “Lower performing classes/schools/divisions tend to have a much higher percentage of students who get a final grade of A or B to fail their SOL tests.”

            It seems this grade inflation is also, far more often that not, a sure sign of a failing class or institution in higher education as well. Indeed, I believe grade inflation is the central cause of rot in American schools, colleges and universities.

            For example, in STEM incompetence cannot be hidden, so graduates in STEM have much higher employment rates that graduates in other courses where incompetence is routinely hidden on a massive scale by institutions. It is fraud really, doing enormous harm.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar

            Matt and I did get together and he has provided a plethora of information for me to understand and learn.

            The main point here is that if this group has found a better way to educate economically disadvantaged kids than the public schools in places like Fairfax and Henrico – it needs to be supported and promoted.

            One of my biggest complaints about public schools – especially large districts with many schools is the disparity in SOL scores between the schools.

            It makes no sense that the same district with the same administrators, same teaching resources, materials and protocals and they end up 40 point differents in SOL scores between schools in the same district.

            I’m also a skeptic of would-be competitors who claim results but won’t transparently provide them. If we think alternatives to the existing public schools failures are better then we need to show it and explain the how and why – not just claim better results.

          9. Matt, Are you allowed (and willing) to share Expectation Index data? This is a matter that I see no one else discussing. If so, please contact me at jabacon[at]baconsrebellion.com.

        2. djrippert Avatar

          Interesting that you went from, “Oh, and I have in the past and will continue as the occasion arises to inform people from Appalachia about white privilege. I don’t give a shit how they react – ” to “talk race politics”.

          Down the shore politics and religion are only discussed among people who know each other well, if at all. An attempt to “talk race politics” would probably result in nothing more than being told, “well, you take it easy, now” as the listener walked away. Informing someone you don’t know of their white privilege might well lead to an invitation out to the parking lot behind Buck’s for a further discussion of the topic.

          UATW – when you stay calm you make good points. When you start getting blustery you don’t. And before anybody else on this blog says it … yeah, I know, me too.

          1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
            UpAgnstTheWall

            Well, yeah, when else would the situation arise other than when the topic is race or race politics? And if you think more than one person didn’t consider inviting me out back regarding the matter, you’re wrong. Who in the Hell just walks up to random strangers and starts telling them they have privilege? I mean, again, if that’s what you want, I can do that, too. You can round up as many locals as you want who don’t think white privilege exists and I can tell them they’re wrong. I still expect my meal.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            okay . Most of what I have checked is the elementary schools and I’ve posted the data and will again if you want.

            There are significant disparities in the SOL scores.

            I think there are in the high schools also but will have to verify.

            But my point and my question is WHY are there as much as 40 point difference between two elementary schools in the same school district – and especially so in Fairfax which actually does have some of the best performing elementary schools in Virginia and the nation?

  3. SuburbanWoman Avatar
    SuburbanWoman

    Part of the SWVA school success is due to low enrollment and localities maintaining small schools rather than consolidate. This provides educators opportunities to know the students and the situations they face. It will be interesting to see how Covid effects enrollment and funding for these localities.

    1. Do small schools make a difference? Intuitively, it makes sense. But the City of Richmond has many schools with small enrollments. Doesn’t seem to make a difference there. Still, I’m open to the idea of testing the proposition with data.

      1. djrippert Avatar

        It’s not small schools, per se. It’s more small towns. When the teachers and the parents and the principal and the school custodian all live in the same vicinity they see each other on a daily basis. Everybody knows everybody else – just like in the country music songs. I spent the last year living on my farm in rural Maryland. You want to buy crabs, you go see Rene. He doesn’t have a store. He buys crabs from watermen and resells them to restaurants. Unless you lived there you’d never even know about Rene. But if you know Rene you’ll get a much better deal than if you stop at one of those crab outlets along the highway outside of town where the tourists drive by and buy crabs on their way home from Ocean City.

        What was it Hillary Clinton said? It takes a village to raise a child. I’d argue that it takes a village of families but I’ll concede part of her point.

        How to make that work in an urban or suburban area? Smaller schools built along natural neighborhood lines where all school employees much live in the geographic area from which the school draws students? Good luck getting that agreed to by the VEA.

        1. idiocracy Avatar

          Perhaps create school districts like other states have, which aren’t county-wide, and consist of one high school, the feeder middle schools, and the feeder elementary schools.

      2. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
        Reed Fawell 3rd

        The recipe for good K-12 school is simple:

        1/ Four wall & roof, heat / AC preferred, plus

        2/ Kids each with at least one responsible parent committed to kid’s education, plus,

        3/ smart motivated, empowered teachers in safe, disciplined classrooms, teaching reading, writing, arithmetic, history, geography, and civics and testing honestly for real results.

        This, and nothing more, made Americans the most educated citizens in the world K-12 and beyond, until things began to fall apart in 1960s, a collapse that continues to this day unabated.

      3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        I can’t say what is a big school, but 50 years ago, I graduated with 800 other kids here in Virginia. There are schools in parts of Texas that make that look small now. I drove past one in San Antonio that I thought was a manufacturing plant until I got to the entrance drive and saw that it was a high school.

        Yeah, I’ll bet it makes a BIG difference.

        1. What made you conclude it was not a manufacturing plant?

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            The sign out front.

            Oh wait. That was humor. It IS a plant.

    2. Matt Hurt Avatar

      There are many fewer school there now than in the past. Schools have been consolidating for years.

  4. SuburbanWoman Avatar
    SuburbanWoman

    Part of the SWVA school success is due to low enrollment and localities maintaining small schools rather than consolidate. This provides educators opportunities to know the students and the situations they face. It will be interesting to see how Covid effects enrollment and funding for these localities.

    1. Do small schools make a difference? Intuitively, it makes sense. But the City of Richmond has many schools with small enrollments. Doesn’t seem to make a difference there. Still, I’m open to the idea of testing the proposition with data.

      1. djrippert Avatar

        It’s not small schools, per se. It’s more small towns. When the teachers and the parents and the principal and the school custodian all live in the same vicinity they see each other on a daily basis. Everybody knows everybody else – just like in the country music songs. I spent the last year living on my farm in rural Maryland. You want to buy crabs, you go see Rene. He doesn’t have a store. He buys crabs from watermen and resells them to restaurants. Unless you lived there you’d never even know about Rene. But if you know Rene you’ll get a much better deal than if you stop at one of those crab outlets along the highway outside of town where the tourists drive by and buy crabs on their way home from Ocean City.

        What was it Hillary Clinton said? It takes a village to raise a child. I’d argue that it takes a village of families but I’ll concede part of her point.

        How to make that work in an urban or suburban area? Smaller schools built along natural neighborhood lines where all school employees much live in the geographic area from which the school draws students? Good luck getting that agreed to by the VEA.

        1. idiocracy Avatar

          Perhaps create school districts like other states have, which aren’t county-wide, and consist of one high school, the feeder middle schools, and the feeder elementary schools.

      2. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
        Reed Fawell 3rd

        The recipe for good K-12 school is simple:

        1/ Four wall & roof, heat / AC preferred, plus

        2/ Kids each with at least one responsible parent committed to kid’s education, plus,

        3/ smart motivated, empowered teachers in safe, disciplined classrooms, teaching reading, writing, arithmetic, history, geography, and civics and testing honestly for real results.

        This, and nothing more, made Americans the most educated citizens in the world K-12 and beyond, until things began to fall apart in 1960s, a collapse that continues to this day unabated.

      3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        I can’t say what is a big school, but 50 years ago, I graduated with 800 other kids here in Virginia. There are schools in parts of Texas that make that look small now. I drove past one in San Antonio that I thought was a manufacturing plant until I got to the entrance drive and saw that it was a high school.

        Yeah, I’ll bet it makes a BIG difference.

        1. What made you conclude it was not a manufacturing plant?

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            The sign out front.

            Oh wait. That was humor. It IS a plant.

    2. Matt Hurt Avatar

      There are many fewer school there now than in the past. Schools have been consolidating for years.

  5. Another point demonstrated by the maps in the report that I don’t believe it discussed adequately are the challenges faced by “English Learners.”

    When conservatives stress the importance of learning English, liberals often trot out their tried and true argument for anything they can’t attack on the merits – racism!

    Learning English and speaking it in the home is indeed an important way to help your child succeed in school. Not doing so, puts them at a severe disadvantage.

    One would think everyone could agree that this is what’s best for the children, and work together to encourage and facilitate it.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      I have a coworker originally from Argentina, he said that his father forbade them from speaking Spanish to him at home. That was how he learned English.

      1. djrippert Avatar

        My son got a summer while in high school at a bagel shop in McLean. He worked in the kitchen. He was the only English speaker. He started with a few years of classroom Spanish and came out conversant in Spanish. Plus he got paid and ate free bagels. Now that’s a summer school program! His younger brother will be in that same kitchen as soon as he is old enough to work during the summer.

  6. Another point demonstrated by the maps in the report that I don’t believe it discussed adequately are the challenges faced by “English Learners.”

    When conservatives stress the importance of learning English, liberals often trot out their tried and true argument for anything they can’t attack on the merits – racism!

    Learning English and speaking it in the home is indeed an important way to help your child succeed in school. Not doing so, puts them at a severe disadvantage.

    One would think everyone could agree that this is what’s best for the children, and work together to encourage and facilitate it.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      I have a coworker originally from Argentina, he said that his father forbade them from speaking Spanish to him at home. That was how he learned English.

      1. djrippert Avatar

        My son got a summer while in high school at a bagel shop in McLean. He worked in the kitchen. He was the only English speaker. He started with a few years of classroom Spanish and came out conversant in Spanish. Plus he got paid and ate free bagels. Now that’s a summer school program! His younger brother will be in that same kitchen as soon as he is old enough to work during the summer.

  7. LarrytheG Avatar

    My suspects are if you looked at the best schools in Henrico, they’d be better than the SW Va schools but the worst schools in Henrico would be worse than SW Va.

    I think looking at this stuff – county-by-county is not very useful since many of the urbanized counties are effectively “segregated” and many of the rural counties are so small that everybody and their dog go to the same school – i.e. there is no “segregation”.

    1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
      UpAgnstTheWall

      Right. To return to my Richmond City vs. Lee County example – in terms of poverty rate, household income, and married income the two locations are pretty similar, but there are two very interesting points of divergence: Richmond has a higher per capita income while having 10 times the population and Richmond has (last time I checked) more private schools per capita than anywhere else in the state.

      The first speaks to a higher degree of income inequality (all things being equal the per capita should be either the same between the two or more people with an equal rate of poverty should actually have a lower per capita income) and the second speaks to segregation, namely that more or less anyone with some money who wants to can and does buy their way out of the school system. Henrico achieves the same thing with property values instead of private school tuition. And I assume Fairfax does as well.

      1. djrippert Avatar

        I’d be careful about poverty comparison between places like Richmond and Lee County. Unless the numbers are adjusted for cost of living they tell a slanted tale.

        Weldon Cooper did an analysis creating the “Virginia Poverty Measure” which translated the official poverty rate in Virginia to a measure that took into account cost of living. The plantation elite hated it. Why? Because it skewered their narrative about Northern Virginia being so rich. For example, the area of NoVa inside the beltway rates a 7.4 poverty rate under the official rates while the Richmond area rates a 12.2. But … account for cost of living and the area inside the beltway is 12.3 while the Richmond area is 12.0.

        It ought to be the people in Arlington ranting and raging about those rich people in Richmond!

        Southwest Virginia is still the poorest area but it drops 23.8% in relative poverty when cost of living is considered.

        https://demographics.coopercenter.org/sites/demographics/files/VirginiaPovertyMeasure_FullReport_May2013_0.pdf

        1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
          UpAgnstTheWall

          I’m always a bit skeptical of these COL adjustments when it comes to life at the lower end of the economic spectrum. I don’t doubt that higher cost of living is felt toward the middle to upper end of the spectrum (making $90k in NoVA is absolutely different than making it in SWVA), but that’s mostly because of relative home prices. Below a certain wage point home ownership is going to be out of reach no matter where you are. And of course there are some benefits to living in a city that are hard to quantify, when I made $25k out in the mountains and my car broke I was SOL on transportation which made my work life unbearable, but living on the same in Richmond when my car broke down I just got on the bus. It didn’t end up being a factor, but access to medical treatment is the same way – in a city I’m able to get medical care relatively quickly and easily (and when I needed to avail myself of the free clinic), but the same is way less true in Appalachia.

          1. idiocracy Avatar

            Rents are directly related to home prices. If houses cost more in a given area, so will the rents.

            Also, in the less-expensive areas of Virginia, zoning will allow you to put a “manufactured home” on a piece of land. That’s not an option anywhere in Northern Virginia.

            Cheaper land, that allows you to put a cheaper manufactured home (aka “trailer”) on it=home ownership much more in reach.

    2. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
      UpAgnstTheWall

      Also, Lee County et al sort of punch a hole in the “it’s just the Black culture that’s bad and that’s why they don’t learn!” At this point and that level of isolation, the Black people in Lee County are and have been fully immersed in the regional culture for generations, but they still underperform their white peers in the same schools.

  8. LarrytheG Avatar

    My suspects are if you looked at the best schools in Henrico, they’d be better than the SW Va schools but the worst schools in Henrico would be worse than SW Va.

    I think looking at this stuff – county-by-county is not very useful since many of the urbanized counties are effectively “segregated” and many of the rural counties are so small that everybody and their dog go to the same school – i.e. there is no “segregation”.

    1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
      UpAgnstTheWall

      Right. To return to my Richmond City vs. Lee County example – in terms of poverty rate, household income, and married income the two locations are pretty similar, but there are two very interesting points of divergence: Richmond has a higher per capita income while having 10 times the population and Richmond has (last time I checked) more private schools per capita than anywhere else in the state.

      The first speaks to a higher degree of income inequality (all things being equal the per capita should be either the same between the two or more people with an equal rate of poverty should actually have a lower per capita income) and the second speaks to segregation, namely that more or less anyone with some money who wants to can and does buy their way out of the school system. Henrico achieves the same thing with property values instead of private school tuition. And I assume Fairfax does as well.

      1. djrippert Avatar

        I’d be careful about poverty comparison between places like Richmond and Lee County. Unless the numbers are adjusted for cost of living they tell a slanted tale.

        Weldon Cooper did an analysis creating the “Virginia Poverty Measure” which translated the official poverty rate in Virginia to a measure that took into account cost of living. The plantation elite hated it. Why? Because it skewered their narrative about Northern Virginia being so rich. For example, the area of NoVa inside the beltway rates a 7.4 poverty rate under the official rates while the Richmond area rates a 12.2. But … account for cost of living and the area inside the beltway is 12.3 while the Richmond area is 12.0.

        It ought to be the people in Arlington ranting and raging about those rich people in Richmond!

        Southwest Virginia is still the poorest area but it drops 23.8% in relative poverty when cost of living is considered.

        https://demographics.coopercenter.org/sites/demographics/files/VirginiaPovertyMeasure_FullReport_May2013_0.pdf

        1. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
          UpAgnstTheWall

          I’m always a bit skeptical of these COL adjustments when it comes to life at the lower end of the economic spectrum. I don’t doubt that higher cost of living is felt toward the middle to upper end of the spectrum (making $90k in NoVA is absolutely different than making it in SWVA), but that’s mostly because of relative home prices. Below a certain wage point home ownership is going to be out of reach no matter where you are. And of course there are some benefits to living in a city that are hard to quantify, when I made $25k out in the mountains and my car broke I was SOL on transportation which made my work life unbearable, but living on the same in Richmond when my car broke down I just got on the bus. It didn’t end up being a factor, but access to medical treatment is the same way – in a city I’m able to get medical care relatively quickly and easily (and when I needed to avail myself of the free clinic), but the same is way less true in Appalachia.

          1. idiocracy Avatar

            Rents are directly related to home prices. If houses cost more in a given area, so will the rents.

            Also, in the less-expensive areas of Virginia, zoning will allow you to put a “manufactured home” on a piece of land. That’s not an option anywhere in Northern Virginia.

            Cheaper land, that allows you to put a cheaper manufactured home (aka “trailer”) on it=home ownership much more in reach.

    2. UpAgnstTheWall Avatar
      UpAgnstTheWall

      Also, Lee County et al sort of punch a hole in the “it’s just the Black culture that’s bad and that’s why they don’t learn!” At this point and that level of isolation, the Black people in Lee County are and have been fully immersed in the regional culture for generations, but they still underperform their white peers in the same schools.

  9. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Another thought towards this discussion: Do the New River Valley counties of Montgomery, Pulaski, and Roanoke make the Southwest cut? Those are very different places now from the far southwestern triangle. Montgomery, Pulaski, and Roanoke counties are most definitely in the modern progressive education mindset thanks to VPI and Radford. Why do they seem to struggle whereas their forgotten sister counties are forging ahead?

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      re: ” The schools focus on what works. Bypassing the educrat establishment in Richmond, schools have banded together in the Comprehensive Instructional Program”

      James, have you heard of this ” Comprehensive Instructional Program” ?

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        I have heard about this. It appears to have some substantive positive outcomes in critical areas such as math and science. A teacher pal in Warren County thinks the work with Warren, Page, and Shenandoah through CIP is helping turn the corner. Mr. Hurt might have more expertise on this.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar

        But trying to understand what it is and how it compares to other school systems like Fairfax or Henrico or Ricmond Public Schools.

        What are they doing different in what they are teaching and how they are teaching?

        1. Matt Hurt Avatar

          Larry, please email me and we can set up a discussion, if you’d like. I’d love to tell you about this. Just Google Matt Hurt CIP to find my email address.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Will do. thanks.

  10. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Another thought towards this discussion: Do the New River Valley counties of Montgomery, Pulaski, and Roanoke make the Southwest cut? Those are very different places now from the far southwestern triangle. Montgomery, Pulaski, and Roanoke counties are most definitely in the modern progressive education mindset thanks to VPI and Radford. Why do they seem to struggle whereas their forgotten sister counties are forging ahead?

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      re: ” The schools focus on what works. Bypassing the educrat establishment in Richmond, schools have banded together in the Comprehensive Instructional Program”

      James, have you heard of this ” Comprehensive Instructional Program” ?

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        I have heard about this. It appears to have some substantive positive outcomes in critical areas such as math and science. A teacher pal in Warren County thinks the work with Warren, Page, and Shenandoah through CIP is helping turn the corner. Mr. Hurt might have more expertise on this.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar

        But trying to understand what it is and how it compares to other school systems like Fairfax or Henrico or Ricmond Public Schools.

        What are they doing different in what they are teaching and how they are teaching?

        1. Matt Hurt Avatar

          Larry, please email me and we can set up a discussion, if you’d like. I’d love to tell you about this. Just Google Matt Hurt CIP to find my email address.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Will do. thanks.

  11. LarrytheG Avatar

    re: grades/expections versus SOLs.

    This is precisely WHY we do have standardized testing.

    AND it is the only objective way to compare and contrast different methods of teaching/education and results/success/failure.

    By the way, the SOLs are not the only standardized test. NAEP uses their own which feels like it is more “granular” in terms of measuring specific skills under the umbrella of reading and math, perhaps similar to the UVA PALS assessments (which are also a standard measurement tool).

    I do not defend the public schools on their record for disadvantaged kids. I’m more than willing to allow competitors or alternative methods but we need to deal with the same demographics and the same measurements but the concept that all bets are off if the parents are not “involved” is bogus if we really want to hold public schools to that standard but not competitors or alterantives.

    And we need to be clear about it. If charter/voucher/ SW VA method is saying their methods require “involved parents” – then compare that same group in the public schools – not the kids who don’t have “involved parents”.

  12. LarrytheG Avatar

    re: grades/expections versus SOLs.

    This is precisely WHY we do have standardized testing.

    AND it is the only objective way to compare and contrast different methods of teaching/education and results/success/failure.

    By the way, the SOLs are not the only standardized test. NAEP uses their own which feels like it is more “granular” in terms of measuring specific skills under the umbrella of reading and math, perhaps similar to the UVA PALS assessments (which are also a standard measurement tool).

    I do not defend the public schools on their record for disadvantaged kids. I’m more than willing to allow competitors or alternative methods but we need to deal with the same demographics and the same measurements but the concept that all bets are off if the parents are not “involved” is bogus if we really want to hold public schools to that standard but not competitors or alterantives.

    And we need to be clear about it. If charter/voucher/ SW VA method is saying their methods require “involved parents” – then compare that same group in the public schools – not the kids who don’t have “involved parents”.

  13. SuburbanWoman Avatar
    SuburbanWoman

    What about SOL testing during Covid? What will test scores reflect with the lost instructional time ? Parents are concerned students are not learning and teachers are frustrated. Overheard in a grocery store ” he graduated because of the Covid”. Then this parent explained the child would not have graduated without the elimination of requirements. ( not sure if this is true)

    1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      In Virginia, I fear that in far to many cases, graduation is far more important (trumps) learning. And that this occurs from the first grade on, with the result that each year more and more kids drop behind and never catch up. So far too often kids at 8th grade or less in achievement levels graduate from high school. And, amazingly, some of these kids go on to college, and waste years and much money there, learning nothing. Much of public education in Virginia and in many other states is little more than a racket. Places where money for those running the racket trumps kids’ education.

    2. Matt Hurt Avatar

      It is likely that fewer students will take SOL tests this year. Students will be required to come into school to take the tests, and most divisions are struggling to connect with some students. Many of these students were the ones who had truancy issues before Covid, and they are really taking advantage of the current situation. These students have traditionally had lower SOL scores, so if only the kids of parents who value education show up to take the SOL test. Combine that with the fact that the state Board lowered cut scores in reading for this spring (like they did with math in 2019), it wouldn’t surprise me to see higher pass rates, which will probably look pretty good on paper.

      I imagine it will take a few years to really get an accurate assessment on the impact that Covid had on our students’ learning.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        well the schools that stayed in-person should be ahead of the others.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Depends on which way you’re going. Most here say the schools were headed south to start with, so those in-person would have just kept becoming more… uh, CRT Commie.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Well, lots of conflicting narratives.

            Like , public schools can’t help kids with “bad” parents but then alternative schools like success academy can – but in order to get accepted the parents must become involved so the kids with bad parents are not help by Success Academy either?

            So the public schools have to take these kids no matter what but the would-be alternative schools don’t have to and that’s how they’d get better academic results?

            Or, the kids with discsipline issues if allowed to stay in school
            will harm other kids, so we expell the kids with issues and they grow up to become – what ? adults with 8th grade educations, who then have kids themselves with “bad” parents?

            Seems like the preferred approach is the kids have “bad parents” and/or are discipline problems to abandon them so the rest can be “saved”.

            But then even if you have “good” parents , the public schools are so bad, that you’re screwed anyhow?

            The solution is to have alternative schools that won’t have to report academic results… 😉

  14. SuburbanWoman Avatar
    SuburbanWoman

    What about SOL testing during Covid? What will test scores reflect with the lost instructional time ? Parents are concerned students are not learning and teachers are frustrated. Overheard in a grocery store ” he graduated because of the Covid”. Then this parent explained the child would not have graduated without the elimination of requirements. ( not sure if this is true)

    1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      In Virginia, I fear that in far to many cases, graduation is far more important (trumps) learning. And that this occurs from the first grade on, with the result that each year more and more kids drop behind and never catch up. So far too often kids at 8th grade or less in achievement levels graduate from high school. And, amazingly, some of these kids go on to college, and waste years and much money there, learning nothing. Much of public education in Virginia and in many other states is little more than a racket. Places where money for those running the racket trumps kids’ education.

    2. Matt Hurt Avatar

      It is likely that fewer students will take SOL tests this year. Students will be required to come into school to take the tests, and most divisions are struggling to connect with some students. Many of these students were the ones who had truancy issues before Covid, and they are really taking advantage of the current situation. These students have traditionally had lower SOL scores, so if only the kids of parents who value education show up to take the SOL test. Combine that with the fact that the state Board lowered cut scores in reading for this spring (like they did with math in 2019), it wouldn’t surprise me to see higher pass rates, which will probably look pretty good on paper.

      I imagine it will take a few years to really get an accurate assessment on the impact that Covid had on our students’ learning.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        well the schools that stayed in-person should be ahead of the others.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Depends on which way you’re going. Most here say the schools were headed south to start with, so those in-person would have just kept becoming more… uh, CRT Commie.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Well, lots of conflicting narratives.

            Like , public schools can’t help kids with “bad” parents but then alternative schools like success academy can – but in order to get accepted the parents must become involved so the kids with bad parents are not help by Success Academy either?

            So the public schools have to take these kids no matter what but the would-be alternative schools don’t have to and that’s how they’d get better academic results?

            Or, the kids with discsipline issues if allowed to stay in school
            will harm other kids, so we expell the kids with issues and they grow up to become – what ? adults with 8th grade educations, who then have kids themselves with “bad” parents?

            Seems like the preferred approach is the kids have “bad parents” and/or are discipline problems to abandon them so the rest can be “saved”.

            But then even if you have “good” parents , the public schools are so bad, that you’re screwed anyhow?

            The solution is to have alternative schools that won’t have to report academic results… 😉

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