From Rising Temperatures to Big Government In Six Easy Steps

The 160-year perspective. Source: Met Office-University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit

by James A. Bacon

When the United Kingdom’s Met Office released its 2011 global temperature numbers back in November, the results were ambiguous enough that both the Global Warming (GW) establishment and skeptics felt vindicated. A compilation of the world’s three leading global temperature databases — the East Anglia Climate Research Unit, the NOAA Climate Data Center and the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies — showed that 2011 was on track to be the 11th warmest year in the past 150 years, stated the Met Office in an article headed, “Warm global temperatures continue in 2011.” Yet skeptics seized on the fact that, despite dramatic increases in greenhouse gases over the past 14 years, global temperatures have plateaued.

The 15-year perspective. Source: (U.K.) Mail Online. (Click for more legible image.)

The GW establishment attributed the pause in rising temperatures to “a very persistent and strong La Niña, which brings cooler water to the surface of the Pacific Ocean.” When the La Niña disappears, global temperatures will resume their rise. Skeptics contend that solar activity plays a far greater role than acknowledged in mainstream climate models and that the earth could be entering a new solar cycle resembling the so-called “Maunder Minimum” that brought on the Little Ice Age.

The scientific battle lines are clearly drawn now, and we should know pretty conclusively within another decade which side is right. I am agnostic on the issue, which, I suppose makes me a closet skeptic because I don’t believe the “science is settled.” But it soon will be. Within the not-too-distant future, one of the two sets of predictions being made now should be proven conclusively wrong.

What won’t be settled, especially if the GW camp’s predictions pan out, is what to do about it. Witness a recent exchange in the letters page in the Wall Street Journal in which Kevin Trenberth and 37 other scientists responded to an op-ed previously published by 16 other scientists disputing that the evidence for global warming was “incontrovertible.” (Local angle: One of those “other” scientists was James McGrath, a world leader in polymer chemistry at Virginia Tech.)

Trenberth made an appeal to authority in support of his position that the planet  “unequivocally” is getting hotter. “More than 97% of scientists actively publishing in the field agree that climate change is real and human caused,” he wrote. “It would be an act of recklessness for any political leader to disregard the weight of evidence and ignore the enormous risks that climate change clearly poses.”

He then went on to state, “In addition, there is very clear evidence that investing in the transition to a low-carbon economy will not only allow the world to avoid the worst risks of climate change, but could also drive decades of economic growth.”

Thus, Trenberth transitioned from an appeal to scientific authority to a bald assertion about the economy, which, he, as a climate scientist and not an economist, has no professional basis for making. Will a “transition to a low-carbon economy” really avoid the worst risks of climate change? Would it really drive economic growth? The point is less than incontrovertibly settled. According to today’s Wall Street Journal, the green movement is rethinking its commitment to Europe’s multibillion-dollar commitment to biofuels. In another straw in the wind, the European Commission’s energy department is reappraising its commitment to renewable energy sources in the absence of a global agreement to combat climate change. EU companies would suffer eroding international competitiveness because clean power sources are so much more expensive.

There are multiple, nested layers to the Global Warming (GW) debate, and I am not at all convinced that they lead ineluctably to Trenberth’s position in support of massive government intervention in the economy. Indeed, I suspect that the only people who are persuaded by that chain of reasoning are predisposed to be suspicious of free markets and inclined to favor big government, especially when greater government control puts like-minded people at the helm. Consider these ongoing issues:

  1. Can we really trust our temperature measures? Skeptics have called attention to various biases in the way temperatures are monitored, pointing to land-based measurement stations that once were located in the countryside but now, due to sprawling development, experience the urban heat-island effect. The GW establishment says it has corrected for that upward bias. For the GW orthodoxy to stand, one must agree that the statistical massaging of  temperature databases adequately addresses this very real problem. (I suspect that it probably has, and I discount this as a major issue — but it is a source of contention.)
  2. Are today’s temperatures truly unprecedented? Skeptics contend that temperatures have undergone long-wave cycles since the end of the last Ice Age, bringing on periods of global warming during the Roman era and again during the Middle Ages. If they are correct, the current temperature peak we are experiencing could be due to factors other than rising levels of greenhouse gases, with the implication that global climate models are flawed. Using “proxy” measures such as tree ring widths, lake sediments and other natural phenomenon that vary with temperature, the GW orthodoxy downplays past warming eras and maintains that today’s temperature rise is without peer. Again, for the orthodoxy to stand, the reconstruction of past temperature peaks must be correct.
  3. Will greenhouse gases lead to runaway temperature increases? No one disputes the conclusion, all other things being equal, that rising levels of greenhouse gases will have a warming effect on the planet. But the GW orthodoxy goes beyond that, insisting that climatic feedback mechanisms such as increased evaporation of water into the atmosphere — water vapor  is a far more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide — will magnify the effect and lead to runaway temperature increases. Skeptics note that even higher CO2 levels in past climate epochs did not lead to runaway warming. Moreover, they say, crucial climate dynamics like cloud formation are still ill-understood. An increase in cloud cover would increase the earth’s reflectivity and reduce the warming sunlight penetrating the atmosphere. Skeptics claim that cloud formation is heavily influenced by varying levels of solar radiation, which interacts with the earth’s magnetosphere to block cosmic rays. The cosmic rays, it is postulated, interact with elements in the atmosphere to seed clouds. If this competing explanation is correct, the climate models underlying the GW orthodoxy need significant revision.
  4. Will rising temperatures be an unmitigated environmental disaster? It is not sufficient for the GW orthodoxy to maintain that temperatures are rising, it must insist that rising temperatures will lead to a string of mankind-threatening calamities from rising sea levels and stronger hurricanes to drought, starvation and conflict caused by scarce resources and the spread of environmental refugees. The potential consequences are so dire that global warming must be halted at all costs. But it strikes me that those hewing to the GW orthodoxy trumpet the downside while muting potential benefits of warming. The orthodoxy refuses to acknowledge, for instance, that increasing levels of C02 amount to atmospheric fertilizer that stimulates plant growth and increases plant resistance to drought. Some skeptics have argued that global warming would boost crop yields and promote plant life generally. While the GW priesthood worries about higher temperatures spreading malaria, no one has explored the impact of warmer weather on cold-weather diseases, such as colds and influenza. The depiction of unmitigated environmental disaster seems incredibly one-sided. Yet the view of global warming as environmental Armageddon is critical to justifying the empowerment of the state over the economy.
  5. Is curtailing greenhouse gases the best way to stave off the impact of global warming? Some economists have argued that the best way to adapt to runaway global warming, assuming it occurs, is to foster economic growth that will enable fragile developing nations to adapt to the postulated increase in fire, flood, disease and famine. Rich societies are more resilient than poor ones. But GW orthodoxy will not entertain that train of thought. The only proffered solution is to roll back the level of greenhouse gas emissions in the belief that (a) the global climate is amenable to such fine tuning, (b) we haven’t already passed the point of no return on irreversible climate change, and (c) there is some ideal, steady-state temperature to which we should aspire, which happens to be the point in time at which people began to get alarmed about climate change.
  6. Is government the best agent of change? Finally, the adherents of GW orthodoxy believe that government, in its all-knowing, far-seeing wisdom, must lead the charge. Private individuals and enterprises cannot bring about the required deep,  structural changes to the economy in a timely fashion. Government must coerce, subsidize, threaten and cajole people to accelerate the shift to the low-carbon economy. In the United State, government has lavished billions of dollars upon schemes from home- conservation programs to ethanol and Renewable Portfolio Standards that require power companies to acquire an increasing share of their energy from renewable sources. The home conservation programs were a bureaucratic fiasco. Ethanol, environmentalists have now concluded, represent a step backward, and an expensive one to boot. Solar energy subsidies have brought us Solyndra, there is a growing backlash against wind power, and it is slowly sinking in that variable energy sources like wind and solar require a massive back-up of natural gas-fired generating capacity. Followers of the GW orthodoxy are sublimely confident in their ability to get things right yet they repeatedly get blind-sided by special interests and rent seekers who manipulate the subsidies, tax credits and regulations to their advantage. Tens of billions of dollars (perhaps hundreds of billions in Europe) have been largely wasted already, and the tab would run even higher if the Trenberths had their way. Ironically, if you want to see real progress in energy conservation, look to the one sphere of activity not subject to government meddling — the retrofit of commercial and industrial properties — and you’ll find dramatic progress.

To justify the current array of GW policies put into place in Europe, the U.S., Virginia and increasingly across the world requires the feat of answering “yes” to all six of the yes-no questions I have just enumerated. I am willing to trust the scientific process to sort out the first three of those sets of issues. But I’m not willing to entrust our economy to true believers attempting to implement their vision by means of a corrupted political process.

Finally, I repeat my admonition to my friends in Virginia’s environmental and smart-growth communities: Decouple your arguments for smart growth from Global Warming. If temperatures resume their upward climb in the next 10 years, the scientific debate may be settled once and you will be proven correct. On the other hand, if the orthodoxy collapses — so will a major justification for smart growth. As I hope to show in future posts, a solid case for smart growth can be built on a foundation of fiscal conservatism and repair to Virginia’s native environment.


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43 responses to “From Rising Temperatures to Big Government In Six Easy Steps”

  1. We have hundreds of years of science of just about every subject literally under the sun.

    It never has been a straight-forward, controversy-free process. There have always been disagreements, debates, and sometimes outright lying (remember cold fusion) and all manner of volatility.

    We started to see corporate attacks on science back when cigarettes came under scrutiny. Dirty bags of tricks were used by the cigarette companies to undermine and discredit targeted scientists and it continued until …literally smoking-gun memos exposed what they had been doing… a comprehensive Richard-Nixon PR campaign that employed clever blending of facts with misinformation and disinformation.

    We now have a similar campaign against climate science and the most amazing thing to me is that the more consensus and agreement there is among different scientists and different organizations like NOAA, NASA and the National Academy of Science, the more we hear claims of a world wide conspiracy …Agenda 21 style.

    Sometimes this rivals how scientists were classified as heretics in the past.

    No one really knows with precise clarity what will happen but the warning signs are plentiful and abundant and to say that we have a massive global conspiracy to cook the data just begs the question as to why anyone would not at the least – take heed and want to look further into it as opposed to dismissing it out of hand as a liberal scheme to ‘hurt’ the economy.

    To this day – we do not have incontrovertible proof that cigarettes cause cancer. We have people that smoke every day and live to be 90, 100 but most people have enough common sense to not attack the science to explain the 90-years old “inconvenient truths”… Nope.. most people accept the scientific consensus that cigarette smoking is harmful to your health.

    No global conspiracies on that issue…at least not any more….

  2. ” Is government the best agent of change? Finally, the adherents of GW orthodoxy believe that government, in its all-knowing, far-seeing wisdom, must lead the charge. Private individuals and enterprises will not bring about the required deep, structural changes to the economy in a timely enough fashion. Government must coerce, subsidize, threaten and cajole people to accelerate the shift to the low-carbon economy.”

    WHERE DO YOU GET THIS STUFF!

    do you want to go back and look at how the Clean Water Act or the Pesticide Control Act came about?

    do you REALLY BELIEVE that the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts came about in spite of the industry fixing the problem and instead the “Government coerced, subsidized, threatened and cajoled”?

    the only way any of this holds together as a narrative is if you want to revise the history associated with how the Clean Air, Clean Water and Pesticide Control acts actually came about.

    isn’t this whole entire narrative just plain over the top?

  3. ” Is curtailing greenhouse gases the best way to stave off the impact of global warming? Some economists have argued that the best way to adapt to runaway global warming, assuming it occurs, is to foster economic growth that will enable fragile developing nations to adapt to the postulated increase in fire, flood, disease and famine. ”

    the presumptions here are breathtaking.

    Let’s assume for the sake of argument that GW turns the agricultural breadbasket of the US into an arid desert that no longer can grow anything but cactus.

    and we are going to “help” the other “poor” countries?

    what if GW spawns mega hurricanes and tornadoes that proceed to turn Miami and Hampton Roads into another New Orleans?

    what if we start to get 500 year floods every year and places like Richmond have a 1/3 of the city devastated by floods?

    Remember Gaston?

    Florida, what is left after 5 mega hurricanes becomes a coastal swamp infested with tropical diseases heretofore found only in countries near the equator?

    we presume that we will be unchanged and left whole and thus able to “help” other not so fortunate countries….

    are we really sure that we won’t sustain crippling damages ourselves?

    why would we presume this? I think this…more than anything else, characterizes the mindset of the GW skeptics.

    They just don’t believe that anything bad could possibly happen.

    I’m not saying the sky is going to fall or chicken little die from Malaria.

    I’m only saying we don’t know but we do have warnings and prudent people pay attention and do not discount out of hand…

    if you want to know who IS worried about GW – two organizations to pay attention to are DOD and the Insurance Companies.

    Both ARE ….NOT dismissing GW as a nefarious scheme….of lying scientists.

  4. Larry, You’d better get your blood pressure checked. I think you’re going to have an aneurism!

    You are the one who is making the breathtaking presumptions. Is there the slightest hint that the U.S. breadbasket is turning into an agricultural wasteland? I have yet to see it. And if you understood the influence of CO2 on plant growth, you would call B.S. on the alarmists. (By the way, you ought to read the book, “The Worst Hard Time,” about the 1930s Dust Bowl. Extended droughts are nothing new; they’re part of a larger climatic pattern.)

    I’ve been hearing the warnings about mega-hurricanes ever since Katrina. Interestingly, we’ve had an extended *lull* in hurricane activity. Oops.

    If you’re right and the ice caps melt and the sea levels rise, we have decades to prepare and adapt. We should be discouraging coastal development — or at least non subsidizing it with federal flood insurance! We don’t need to spend trillions of dollars on reducing CO2 emissions.

    The DoD? Following the latest intellectual fad. The insurance companies? I take them seriously. Let them price the risks as they see fit. If they think GW is real, and see an increased risk of coastal flooding, they’ll jack up their insurance rates. We’ll see less coastal development, and what development there is will be hardened. OK, I can live with that. It’s the result of rational calculation, not the combustible mix of ideology and rent seeking in Washington, D.C.

  5. By the way, please dispense with the “conspiracy” canard. I never once hinted at a conspiracy.

  6. Is there the slightest hint that the U.S. breadbasket is turning into an agricultural wasteland?

    not right now. Can you say with any degree of certainty that it would never happen?

    …. Extended droughts are nothing new; they’re part of a larger climatic pattern.)…

    extended droughts supercharged from GW could make the current ones look like childs play.

    “I’ve been hearing the warnings about mega-hurricanes ever since Katrina. Interestingly, we’ve had an extended *lull* in hurricane activity. Oops.”

    remember Gaston?? What happened? DO you think Richmond could sustain a few more like that?

    “If you’re right and the ice caps melt and the sea levels rise, we have decades to prepare and adapt. ”

    how can you be so sure? why do you think you know?

    “We should be discouraging coastal development — or at least non subsidizing it with federal flood insurance! We don’t need to spend trillions of dollars on reducing CO2 emissions.”

    When Nags Head goes completely under during a mega hurricane and what’s left is a few sandbars, will you then say you were “wrong” about GW? too late then, eh?

    “The insurance companies? I take them seriously. Let them price the risks as they see fit. If they think GW is real, and see an increased risk of coastal flooding, they’ll jack up their insurance rates. We’ll see less coastal development, and what development there is will be hardened. OK, I can live with that. It’s the result of rational calculation, not the combustible mix of ideology and rent seeking in Washington, D.C.”

    many insurance companies are trimming their coverage… already

    “By the way, please dispense with the “conspiracy” canard. I never once hinted at a conspiracy.”

    but you use their talking points – word-for-word!

    😉

  7. Jim – when NOAA and NASA and the infamous LIARS … ALL match up… do you know what the skeptics say?

    CONSPIRACY!

    the more consensus there is – the bigger and nastier the conspiracy.

    and this is why the Cooch is going after Mann…. to “prove” he was part of the “conspiracy”. The cooch is a modern day King who wants to burn a heretic at the stake…and after that.. he wants to be Gov… and the heck of it?

    people will vote for him…. this is how far off the rails the GOP has gone these days.

  8. LarryG, There are all kinds of skeptics out there. There are the gut-level, Rush Limbaugh types who cherry pick the information that fits their point of view and demonize the opposition. Those people might holler conspiracy. Then there are others — and I like to include myself in this camp — who are not ideologically committed to opposition yet remain unpersuaded. In my case, I remain unpersuaded not because I distrust the scientists (well, I may not trust Michael Mann and his coterie, given the evidence of the East Anglia CRU emails) but because I distrust the policy makers and journalists who filter the scientific evidence for presentation to the public. I don’t believe there is a “conspiracy.” But I do allow for the possibility of “group think.”

  9. ” not because I distrust the scientists (well, I may not trust Michael Mann and his coterie, given the evidence of the East Anglia CRU emails) but because I distrust the policy makers and journalists who filter the scientific evidence for presentation to the public. I don’t believe there is a “conspiracy.” But I do allow for the possibility of “group think.”

    you’re KILLING ME Jim.

    you just posted a chart with the East Anglia , NOAA, and NASA data, right?

    so what is it that you do not “trust”?

    see.. this is where all of you look like peas in a pod.. just slightly different shapes and colors but definitely all nestled together in the same pod!

    you distrust policy-makers and journalists Around the World?

    around the world “group think”?

    Really?

    the conspiracy nuts….do they suffer from “group think”, maybe?

    Actually.. I have NO IDEA how close the scientists are to proving GW or what to do about it …or not… but what sets me back is the Luddite dimensions of those who doubt – in a world where we use Smart Phones and gene splicing….etc…

    It’s reminiscent of Planet of the Apes!

  10. DJRippert Avatar

    Well written, Jim.

    This was a critical paragraph in the original Op Ed piece:

    “Alarmism over climate is of great benefit to many, providing government funding for academic research and a reason for government bureaucracies to grow. Alarmism also offers an excuse for governments to raise taxes, taxpayer-funded subsidies for businesses that understand how to work the political system, and a lure for big donations to charitable foundations promising to save the planet.”.

    This is observable fact.

    This, in an of itself, neither proves nor disproves global warming theory. However, it opens the question of whether the motivations of some global warming proponents are, perhaps, colored by more than ecological goals.

    Enter Michael Mann. Or, more accurately, UVA.

    FOIA requests for material produced at public expense by Dr. Mann are stonewalled by UVA. First, the University lies about the existence of the material claiming that the electronic documents had been deleted. Then, after confronting Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli’s demand, UVA recanted its obvious lie and admitted that the documents existed but refused to release them citing “academic freedom”.

    Contrast this to an FOIA request processed by Greenpeace for records from a UVA researcher who is a global warming skeptic. There was no lying about the existence of the documents. There was no resistance in the name of “academic freedom”. The records were quickly turned over in their entirety.

    Follow the money. Global warming is a boon to those engaged in academic research. In addition, it gives America’s intellectuals something they have never enjoyed in our history – political power.

    Where there is smoke there is fire. And there is enough smoke around UVA and Michael Mann for an inferno to be burning behind the scenes.

  11. I agree it is well written. Virtually everything Jim writes is excellently written and often hits on all content cylinders.

    but I still focus on the one thing that seems to be central to many if not most skeptics and DJ says it also:

    ” Follow the money. Global warming is a boon to those engaged in academic research. In addition, it gives America’s intellectuals something they have never enjoyed in our history – political power.

    Where there is smoke there is fire. And there is enough smoke around UVA and Michael Mann for an inferno to be burning behind the ”

    are you saying that this is a Global Conspiracy or not?

    I’m sticking to my guns here. Be honest. Do you or do you not think the GW “alarmists” is a global conspiracy of scientists who have doctored the data in an effort to gain something?

    I note that some of the “skeptics” seem to be pulling back a bit starting to feel not entirely government with a lot of the skeptic movement but even for those who are stepping back…I still ask that conspiracy question.

    yea or nay? don’t equivocate.

    1. DJRippert Avatar

      More a series of conspiracies than a global conspiracy. Like used car dealers. Did dishonest used car dealers who turned back the odometers on their cars represent a global conspiracy or just some bums who cheated the system?

      When a divorce lawyer amps up their client’s anger because they know that litigation is more lucrative than settlement – is this a global conspiracy? It certainly happens a lot. Nope. No global conspiracy. Just a broken system that rewards the wrong people for bad behavior. California led the nation with its no fault divorce law which was bitterly opposed by the American Bar Association. Global conspiracy? No. Just moneyed interests pursuing their individual economic interests with arguments of bunk and hyperbole.

      Global warming alarmism economically favors the academics who are sounding the alarm. So, when I see UVA’s double standard of disclosure I suspect that UVA is following its economic interests rather than “academic freedom”.

      Global conspiracy, no. Reason for serious concern about the motivation of some alarmists? Yes.

  12. One of the reasons I ask this question is that the more strident GS skeptics… when told that NOAA and NASA and NAS all are in support of the consensus opinion – just keep right on trucking by saying that ALL 3 of them – ARE ALSO in on the “conspiracy”.

    so I’m asking… do you think there is a worldwide conspiracy that includes NOAA, NASA and NAS and that all 3 of them are lying and misrepresenting data?

    If NOAA, NASA and NAS support what East Anglia and Mann say..does that mean that NOAA, NAsA, and NAS are also in cahoots with Mann and East Anglia to perpetrate global warming fraud?

    time to stop pussy-footing around on this – is there or is there not a global conspiracy that includes the scientific organizations in the US?

  13. LarryG, Once again, I don’t think it’s a matter of “conspiracy,” except in rare instances like Michael Mann and his buddies plotting how to repress skeptical viewpoints in the peer-review literature and the IPCC report. (And that’s a pretty important conspiracy. Thanks to the fall-out from the East Anglia controversy, I feel confident that the next IPCC report will be a lot more cautious in its conclusions.)

    But the GW movement is much bigger than Michael Mann & Company. I think the appropriate phrase is “group think.” First, as Don points about above, follow the money. Politicians, bureaucrats and corporate rent-seekers see GW as a gravy train. That’s not a conspiracy — it’s human nature at work. Second, there is a well documented psychological phenomenon called “confirmation bias.” Once a viewpoint has taken root, it is hard to dislodge. People seek information that confirms their point of view and reject evidence that is inconsistent with it. Again, human nature. Third, the mainstream media, being overwhelmingly liberal in its outlook, have acted as cheerleaders for the GW movement. Again, not a conspiracy… just group think.

  14. re: “group think” vs “conspiracies”

    NICE PIVOT!

    tell me please WHY this phenomena has been so severely “abused” by GW and not other science such as the Ozone Hole issue.

    Do you equate “group think” to the Agenda 21 “conspiracy”?

    are you saying that Agenda 21 is not a conspiracy but instead a “group think”?

    and how do you differentiate between “group think” and “scientific consensus”?

    re: “scientific consensus” that is “hard to dislodge”?

    I end up with the same question – how do you differentiate between “scientific consensus”, world leaders that take that consensus seriously, and “conspiracies” and “group think” …for ANY ISSUE?

    What is this a problem PRIMARILY with GW and not other scientific consensus?

    Do you think the Ozone Hole issue was an example of a conspiracy or “group think”?

    I’m trying to understand just where you think that line was crossed ….

    you know… we NOW have people saying that the Social Security Administration is LYING about the trust fund, that the CBO is LYING about the Debt and the BLS is LYING about unemployment and job creation.

    the fact that these are the very same people that say science is LYING about GW and LYING about Agenda 21 – do you not see some “group think” here?

  15. LarryG, group think is a condition of human nature. As such, it afflicts people of all political and ideological persuasions. It afflicts people of all classes and educational levels, even those who believe themselves to be smarter than everyone else. No one is immune.

    1. DJRippert Avatar

      Jim, you are wrong. In order for “group think” to occur one needs a group which can, in aggregate, think. Our General Assembly fails this test. Therefore, I maintain that our General Assembly is immune to group think by dint of its inability to think as a group at all.

  16. Do you also talk about the “Gravity Establishment”? How about the “Evolution Priesthood”?

    No? Why not? Perhap because enormous corporations like Koch Industries and Exxon do not find those scientific issues threatening enough to spend millions creating an infrastucture of websites, NGOs, etc., all united by a very savvy communications strategy designed to discredit climate science in order to protect their share prices. A big part of that strategy is convincing people who repeat their talking points that they are brave, free-thinking”skeptics” taking on some evil Establishment as opposed to just the latest yahoos to fall for the latest Internet scam.

    For example, you fell for the so-called “Climategate” so-called scandal without mentioning that something like 7 different investigations across 2 continents found no wrong doing in the stolen emails whatsoever. But facts just don’t matter in the age of the Internet and Fox News, do they?

    Science is not determined by some priesthood meeting behind closed doors. It’s based on experiments and findings being replicated by many different people in many different places. Climate change was not dreamed up by some enviromentalist, but first hypothesized 100 years ago by Nobel Prize winner Svante Arrhenius and increasingly demonstrated through findings that range from ice core drilling to sea level examination to research on impacts on a vast range of species.

    You can throw all that research in the garbage can if you want, but don’t fashion yourself some sort of intellectual in the process. And please don’t accuse others of groupthink when you’re falling for such a well-financed manipulative corporate scam.

    1. Kindler, There is stronger evidence for the existence of gravity than there is for catastrophic anthropogenic global warming (AGW). There is stronger evidence for evolution than there is for catastrophic AGW.

      Scare up all the Exxon and Koch Brothers bogey men you want, but the fact is, there is debate — in some instances within the AGW movement itself — on each of the six points I raised. While the first three points are scientific in nature and the fourth partly so, the last two are economic, not scientific at all.

      As for the “facts,” do you deny that average global temperatures have not risen over the past 14 years? Do you deny that the 14 years of stagnation are consistent with only the lowest-temperature scenarios in the climate model?

      I find it interesting that of all the critical commentary posted so far, none has actually addressed the substance of my argument.

      1. James, I find it amusing that, after repeatedly raising the bogeymen of a shadowy “Global Warming Establishment” and “Big Government”, you accuse me of doing that with Koch. The money and personnel that Koch has invested in climate denial (and at the same time in the Tea Party to find the dupes who’ll believe this stuff) is an undeniable, documented fact. See the report http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/Global/usa/planet3/publications/gwe/Koch-Ind-Still-Fueling-Climate-Denial.pdf for example.

        If all of the red herrings you cited are points of debate in the scientific community (as opposed to political and conspiracy theory communities), could you please cite published, peer reviewed research that discusses them?

        If you’d like responses to all of these issues and more denialist arguments, the website skepticalscience.com has the best — and it cites actual scientific research.

        And please don’t just cherrypick data to make a point — i.e., showing charts that begin around 1998, which was an incredibly hot year, in order to make tbe years after look cooler. 9 of the 10 hottest years ever recorded in fact have been in the 2000s. The climb in warming has paused several times, but the long term trend has not stopped.

        I know it’s a fun game where the Koch Machine spews out new factoids every week and everyone is supposed to drop all they’re doing to respond point by point, so that we’re all so busy we never get the chance to actually take any action that could harm the fossil fuel industries. But it gets tiresome after a while. If you want to know about the actual scientific debate, then read actual scientific journals, not Rupert Murdoch publications.

        1. Kindler, Do you not believe that there is a scientific “consensus” about AGW? Of course you do. That’s what I refer to by “GW orthodoxy,” not some shadowy conspiracy.

          It seems that you are the one who believes in conspiracies, attributing all GW skepticism to the “Koch Machine.”

          Regarding the Greenpeace study you cite… The report says: “Our March 2010 report documented well over $48 million dollars that David Koch and his brother Charles have quietly funneled to front groups that actively deny global warming science or work to delay policies and regulations aimed at solving the crisis.”

          What are these groups? They include Mercatus Center, Cato Institute and Americans for Prosperity. These groups may indeed be skeptical of the AGW orthodoxy, but the amount of time they devote to global warming is a tiny proportion of everything they do.

          It is ludicrous to equate the Koch brothers’ $20 million in donations to Mercatus (1997 to 2009) to $20 million in GW denialism. Mercatus lists more than 50 research topics on its website — not one topic is specifically identified as Global Warming, or even the environment. Search for “Global Warming” on the Mercatus website. The most recent citation is a 2009 paper, “‘Doing My Part’ to Save the Global Commons?” The Greenpeace numbers are wildly inflated.

          Talk about cherry picking data!!!!

        2. Hey, Kindler, one more thing! Show me the “peer reviewed” scientific literature that says reducing greenhouse gas emissions is the most cost effective way to adapt to rising global temperatures. That’s an economic and political judgment, not a scientific one.

          Show me the peer reviewed scientific literature that says promoting the production and consumption of ethanol is a cost-efficient way of reducing CO2 emissions. Oops. You guys changed your mind on that. Show me the literature that says Renewable Portfolio Standards are a cost-efficient way of reducing CO2 emissions. Ooooops, it looks like the Europeans are having a change of heart about wind, solar and biofuels.

          1. First, get the facts right about the phenomenon we’re facing. Then we can debate the appropriate policy solutions to deal with it.

            I can respect people with whom I have honest policy differences. But I have zero respect for anyone who tries to twist scientific facts to fit his own ideology and self-interest, and even worse, who accuses scientists of faking their data and lying and committing a vast global conspiracy — that’s just utterly despicable. If you’re against carbon taxes or whatever, fine, we can debate that. But don’t just make stuff up — you’re entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

            If you’re not a conspiracy theorist, as you claim, then what is your explanation for all these supposed failures of climate science — do you think this whole field of scientists is just too dumb to think of things like adjusting for the heat island effect?

            And BTW, countries like Germany and China, rather than “rethinking”, continue to make progress toward owning these industries of the future — China’s massive investment, seriously lowering the price of photovoltaics, was what changed the economics of the market, triggering the crises with Solyndra and other solar companies.

          2. Good idea. Let’s get the facts right. One place to start is to base this conversation on what I actually I wrote rather what you assume I wrote, or meant. There is *nothing* in what I have written to suggest that I believe the AGW movement is a
            “conspiracy.” Nothing. It strikes me that you are simply trying to discredit me by lumping me in with people who are conspiracy theorists. Well, I find that descpicable.

            Then you ask, “Do you think this whole field of scientists is just too dumb to think of things like adjusting for the heat island effect?”

            Dude, go back and read what I wrote: “For the GW orthodoxy to stand, one must agree that the statistical massaging of temperature databases adequately addresses this very real problem. (I suspect that it probably has, and I discount this as a major issue — but it is a source of contention.)”

            You also say, “I have zero respect for anyone who tries to twist scientific facts to fit his own ideology and self-interest, and even worse, who accuses scientists of faking their data and lying and committing a vast global conspiracy .”

            Now, you don’t specifically state that it was me who is twisting scientific facts to fit my ideology, but that accusation could be inferred by the context of your remark. But rather than launch into a tirade, I will ask you first, is that what you meant. Are you accusing me of twisting scientific facts?

            If so, please give me one instance of a scientific fact that I have twisted.

            Is there not a debate over reconstructing the temperatures of the Middle Ages? It’s fine to take one side of that debate over the other, but you cannot deny the existence of a debate…. Or do you believe that the science of temperature reconstruction based on proxies like tree rings, lake sediments, etc. is so advanced that “the science is settled” regarding global temperatures in the Middle Ages?

            Do you acknowledge that CO2 has been proven in innumerable horticultural experiments to boost yields of greenhouse crops and make them more drought resistant? Or is that a fact that I made up?

            Do you deny the existence of a debate over the most cost-efficient way to achieve a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions? Or is that, too, “settled science?”

  17. I’m still trying to figure out if Jim means the Agenda 21/GW folks are the ones who “group think” or it’s the worldwide scientific community that “group thinks”.

    The agenda 21 folks say that the more scientific consensus there is – the bigger and wider the global conspiracy is.

    and the agreement of NOAA, NASA and NAS just goes to show you just how and massive the conspiracy is….

    looks to me that Jimbo here is slowing backing up…on the GW stuff

    eh?

  18. dobermanmacleod Avatar
    dobermanmacleod

    Who cares if some deny mankind’s emissions are causing global warming – soon mankind will cut their emissions drastically to save money big time:

    There is a new clean energy technology that is one tenth the cost of coal. LENR using nickel. Incredibly: Ni+H(heated under pressure)=Cu+lots of heat.

    This phenomenon (LENR) has been confirmed in hundreds of published scientific papers: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJtallyofcol.pdf

    “Over 2 decades with over 100 experiments worldwide indicate LENR is real, much greater than chemical…” –Dennis M. Bushnell, Chief Scientist, NASA Langley Research Center

    “Energy density many orders of magnitude over chemical.” Michael A. Nelson, NASA

    “Total replacement of fossil fuels for everything but synthetic organic chemistry.” –Dr. Joseph M. Zawodny, NASA

    According to Forbes, electricity will be “too cheap to meter” if Rossi’s Oct 28 demonstration succeeds: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2011/10/17/hello-cheap-energy-hello-brave-new-world/

    Here’s the latest, according to MSNBC it passed the test: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45153076/ns/technology_and_science-science/#.TrNo9rJqwe4

    By the way, here is a survey of all the companies that are bringing LENR to commercialization: http://www.cleantechblog.com/2011/08/the-new-breed-of-energy-catalyzers-ready-for-commercialization.html

  19. I never was 100% convinced that getting rid of aerosols would help turn the ozone hole threat around.

    But I was also confident that the scientific establishment had reached a consensus – not without controversy and not without some skeptics but they had reached a consensus – and most of us believed them and as far as I recall never once had any thought of a global conspiracy of lying scientists.

    what has changed?

  20. pointing to land-based measurement stations that once were located in the countryside but now, due to sprawling development, experience the urban heat-island effect.

    ================================================

    That argument never made any sense to me. If you have a bunch of measuring stations that are now wowrmer than they once were, doesn;’t that mean the world as we know it is warmer? And if the “cause” is urban heat islands doesn’t that point to anthropogenic causes?

    To argue that anthropogenically caused heat islands are distorting the global statistics and therefore there is no real warming and it is not anthropegenic if the re is, strikes me as a circuar argument.

  21. Skeptics contend that temperatures have undergone long-wave cycles since the end of the last Ice Age

    ===============================================

    Some of those arguments point to changes over tens of thusands of years, to which my response is, who cares? Our problem is now and the next fifty years.

    Bacon is right though, the question will soon be settled, and that is the argument I pose to skeptics: “How much evidence and how long would present trends ahve to continue before you change your mind?” If they cannot answer that question, then they are not skeptics, but fanatics.

  22. isn’t this whole entire narrative just plain over the top?

    ================================================

    OK, the clean aair and clean water act were certainly justified and have done much co clean up our rivers and streams, but then came the Toxic Substances Control Act. I remember the first time I read that I literally laughed until I was in tears. Talk about over the top, basically, if it is acidic, basic or flammable, it is a toxic substance.

    Yes, the Big Brother is controlling everything narrative is over the top, but in a winner take all world, there is not much choice but to go for th e gold. We have plenty of regulations, good and bad. some we can do without, and some need to be recalibrated, but the idea that every government regulation is bad is just as crazy as the idea that only government can control our behavior.

  23. “The insurance companies? I take them seriously. Let them price the risks as they see fit. If they think GW is real, and see an increased risk of coastal flooding, they’ll jack up their insurance rates.

    ================================================

    They already have. also highrer prices for snw insurance and all kinds of other weather related risks.

  24. Andrea Epps Avatar
    Andrea Epps

    The one part of this interesting discussion that we can actually effect is divorcing the GW argument from growth. One doesn’t have much to do with the other, although more than a few of the “new” politicians have found the jackpot.
    Planning theory and practice has been the same for decades. LONG before the evil UN ever adopted their “Agenda”. Have at it Jim!

  25. ” I can respect people with whom I have honest policy differences. But I have zero respect for anyone who tries to twist scientific facts to fit his own ideology and self-interest, and even worse, who accuses scientists of faking their data and lying and committing a vast global conspiracy — that’s just utterly despicable.”

    I could not have said this better myself.

    and the reason it applies to what Jim writes is that Jim IS USING THE SAME talking points and arguments that the conspiracists use.

    Name another area of science where people say the data has been “manipulated” or where layman view of seeming contradictions are promoted as “proof” that the science is flawed?

    It’s an attack on science and the very processes that sciences uses for ALL science … targeted to only some issues.

    in the same church but a different pew if you check the conspiracy sites is the culture war against the use of DDT and it’s effect on bird eggs. The very same GW skeptics and Agenda 21 fools argue that the science with respect to thinning eggshells is wrong and manipulated and that in reality DDT does not cause egg thinning. Further – there is a worldwide conspiracy to keep DDT from being used to control Malaria and millions of people are dying as a result of the “conspiracy”. the fact that there is broad consensus in the scientific community as well as broad acceptance of that consensus in many countries governments IS VIEWED…. AS PROOF.. of a conspiracy.

    Jim is citing the very same arguments that the Conspiracists use to attack GW and yet he says he does not believe in the conspiracy part but if you look closely at the arguments about explaining the “contradictions” – the only answer you can grab when scientists around the world dismiss the apparent contradictions is that they must all be lying and since what they say is more or less consistent – consensus then they must be coordinating their lies.

    the vast majority of the GW skeptics, also believe in Agenda 21 and the DDT “conspiracy”… they believe that scientists are liberals who are basically lying about science to further a liberal agenda – on a worldwide basis.

  26. Larry says, “Jim is citing the very same arguments that the Conspiracists use to attack GW.”

    Don’t you see what you’re doing here? You’re trying to discredit the arguments I make by labeling them as coming from “conspiracists.” You aren’t addressing the arguments themselves. You’re attacking those who make the arguments.

    In this entire comment chain, you have not disputed a single argument I made in the original post. You have not cited a single fact that I got wrong! Tell me where you think I’m wrong, and we can have a meaningful discussion. Otherwise, we can just exchange ad hominem attacks.

  27. Andrea Epps Avatar
    Andrea Epps

    COULD WE POSSIBLY DISCUSS THE UNDERLYING ISSUE OF GW AS IT (DOES NOT) RELATE TO GROWTH???????
    The CAPS lock was intentional….I’m screaming now:)

  28. Andrea… Start the discussion. What are your thoughts?

    As for me, I’m trying to emancipate the argument for smart growth from the GW debate. As long as conservatives believe that GW orthodoxy is driving the smart growth movement — by means of Agenda21, in the minds of some — they will never be receptive to the other, compelling reasons to support smart growth.

  29. re: “emancipate”?

    🙂

    you mean you’re trying to get the “conspiracy” aspect out of the discussion?

    😉

  30. Andrea Epps Avatar
    Andrea Epps

    Absolutely Larry!
    The Agenda 21 fans don’t seem to care anything about facts. EVERYTHING is related to the one world government takeover…even though many, many good land use plans existed LONG before the 90s. I’m so darn tired to listening to this crap I could choke….OK redirect.

    The growth issue should be debated on the basis of how to best use tax money. I understand the property rights issues, but the function of government is not to guarantee a return on any investment. If you purchase land in the middle of the country, you should understand that government services are not going to be extended 25 miles into the hinterland. If they are, it is but a matter of time before the tax rate goes up on EVERYBODY to pay for said services.
    I’ll even go WAY out on a limb and suggest there should be covenants recorded for every property that explain the local ordinance related to the extension of utilities. Yes, I am aware that I might have just started Virginia”s version of World War 3, but I am hormonal…so please be kind 🙂

  31. Andrea, you are NOT hormonal .. at least not any more than I or Jim Bacon are! (not sure Jim would agree on including him but OH WELL).

    re: ” understand that government services are not going to be extended 25 miles into the hinterland.”

    I agree..

    Unfortunately, some counties are actually using the UDA law to justify extending water/sewer to areas previously ruled out.

    they are designated UDA “pods” that are in areas where there currently is no water/sewer and they are basically inviting developer proposals and the county is proffering he availability of water/sewer if the right deal is reached.

    one might think this is the way to promote a village concept – and maybe it is but just outside the boundaries of the UDA village is a ton of non-UDA rural land that now has access to water/sewer …ergo more conventional “sprawl” type subdivisions.

    the only thing that is “complicating” these “plans” is that these days VDOT is not going alone with it and the roads to/from the UDAs as well as their connections to the state’s primary roads are going to be a direct cost to the county and to developers.

    so maybe it’s not so terrible given the realities.

    but the agenda 21 folks involvement in the UDAs is IMHO .. comical ..when you actually listen to their talking points in the hearings….

    and as pointed out before.. most of the Agenda 21 folks think that there is not only a world-wide conspiracy but it extends to all manner of issues from sustainable development to global warming…

  32. There is always debate around the margins of scientific issues — the question is whether those details call into question the paradigm that has been found to best explain the phenomena in question.

    What’s really devious about the climate denial rhetoric is how it takes comparatively trivial questions and blows them out of proportion to make people falsely believe that these alleged “controversies” call into doubt the findings that the Earth is warming and human activities are responsible. It’s basically all an elaborate way of distracting from the most important points.

    You’re trying to have it both ways by raising questions like whether scientists forgot to account for the heat island effect, and then saying you don’t really believe they did — then why raise it? It’s like these sensational newscasts that claim they’re just innocently reporting controversies even though, gosh, they don’t know if these rumors are really true!

    And please don’t claim that CO2 is good for us, so no problem. Lots of things are good in the right amounts and context. It’s just another red herring.

  33. Kindler, Here’s a “fact” for you to support my contention that Europeans are reappraising their thinking about AGW. “Die Kalte Sonne” (The Cold Sun), is the 17th hottest book sold on Amazon.de in Germany. (Apparently, it was No. 1 for a while.) Co-written by Social Democrat and green activist, Fritz Vahrenholt, the book cites hundreds of errors in the IPCC report, the bible of the global warming movement. So much for the “facts.”

  34. Well, if it’s a bestseller, it must be true, and everyone who buys it must agree with it, and therefore all of Europe must be reassessing its stance on these issues.

    Yes, that would definitely qualify as a “fact”…

  35. “facts” have a different meaning in the right wing echo chamber!

    😉

    if what right wing zealot make a claim and another right wing site repeats it – it becomes a “fact”.

    if it is actually published in a book – it becomes an incontrovertible fact… the same as if it appears in the Bible.

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