Foreign Student Influence in Students for Justice in Palestine Chapters at Virginia Universities and their “Allies”

Caption: “Show up, share, and support the resistance movement! Let’s keep the momentum going” GMU SJP member

by James C. Sherlock

The SJP organizations at three Virginia state universities, the University of Virginia, George Mason University, and the University of Mary Washington, have been active since October 7th on the Hamas side.

Some attempt to thread two needles simultaneously: to separate Gazans from their elected government, the terrorist organization Hamas, and to separate Israelis from Jews.

In celebrating the October 7th slaughter, those are distinctions without a difference.

We’ll look at the influence of foreign students in Virginia universities’ SJP chapters, then the GMU chapter, and then briefly examine the progressive/Marxist “intersectionality” of SJP to see the extent of who and what we are dealing with.

The results are interesting, but not surprising.

Foreign Visa Holders.  In the United States in 2020-21, the numbers of Middle Eastern students studying in the United States included:

  • Saudi Arabia: 18,206
  • Bangladesh: 10,597
  • Iran: 9,295
  • Pakistan: 8,772
  • Turkey: 8,476
  • Kuwait: 5,923

That is over 61,000.

In a recent study, George Mason University total enrollment was 38,541 students; 21,603 of these are undergraduates and 4,428 are graduate students. Of the undergraduates, 1,245 were foreign and a surprising 29%, or 1,095, of the graduate students were international students.

In the fall of 2019, the latest data available, 548, or 23%, of GMU’s foreign students were from the Middle East.

UVa reports an “international student body of more than 2,500 graduate and undergraduate students from over 100 countries.” That is over 10% foreign students in a school with 24,628 students, but I can find no breakdown of the countries of origin of those students. At a ratio like that of GMU, UVa would have about 550 from the Middle East.

I am sure most of these are here for the right reasons and conduct themselves accordingly. It helps the U.S. in the long term for those students to study here.

But there are some who appear to break our laws.

SJP at GMU, the largest public university in Virginia

From multiple news reports:

GWU Students for Justice in Palestine stands in full support of the liberation of our homeland and our people’s right to resist the violent 75-year long colonization of our homeland by any means necessary.

GWU Students for Justice in Palestine maintains unwavering support for our people’s resistance, in all its forms.

Every single act of resistance moves us closer to the liberation of our homeland. We will never capitulate to the colonizer or his sympathizers and we stand firm and steadfast in support of our people’s right to resist. We call upon all our people and those in solidarity with us to join us in this struggle. [Emphasis added.]

For reporting on the GMU “rally” by SJP at GMU on October 12, see here.

Dozens of George Mason University students and other community members, many wearing face masks, kaffiyehs, sunglasses, and all-black clothing, blasted rap music, pumped their fists, and chanted, ‘They got tanks, we got hang gliders! Glory to the resistance fighters!’

We got hang gliders.”

I submit that the foreign students in their midst celebrating Hamas and October 7  have crossed the admissibility provisions of Title 8 of the U.S. Code.

Any alien who-
(IV) is a representative (as defined in clause (v)) of-
(bb) a political, social, or other group that endorses or espouses terrorist activity;
(VII) endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization; is inadmissible.

Read the SJP “Toolkit” for that rally. Worth the time.

Today, we witness a historic win for the Palestinian resistance: across land, air, and sea.,

National liberation is near— glory to our resistance, to our martyrs, and to our steadfast people.

Our” martyrs.

The SJP home page on the main GMU website was scrubbed sometime before October 13th (the only files on Wayback were from 13 – 18 October). It would be useful to know who told the webmaster to clean up the evidence.

What remains of it says there were five officers, 531 members; 37 events and 21 emails/newsletters prior to the scrubbing.

Perhaps a coincidence, but again there were 548 foreign students from the Middle East at GMU.

The organization’s Facebook page still lists 333 members. Few of them are current students. Examples from the list:

  • Michael Letwin’s Facebook page offers a rolling minute-by-minute history of post-10/6 anti-Israel activism in New York City;
  • Amer Zahr is very much still an activist. He notes favorably an April 2022 Dearborn Michigan Al Quds Day rally;
  • Then there is this guy. On October 8 he shared the picture at the top of this article.

“Allies.”

 The Chronicle of Higher Education reports that at the GMU SJP rally on October 12,

Speakers from several student organizations, including the Native American and Indigenous Alliance and the Young Democratic Socialists, said the attacks against Israeli civilians were justified and a direct result of the Israeli government’s oppression of people in occupied Palestinian territory.

Check.

For those of you not of the movement, “occupied Turtle Island” referenced in the SJP Toolkit as Turtle Island is a “name for Earth or North America, used by some Indigenous peoples, as well as by some Indigenous rights activists.”

Check.

At least three of the SJP chapter news releases across the country referenced the Resistance News Network (RNN)(Unity-Struggle Unity [U-S-U]Press) as a source for their complaints.

From RNN’s Media Guide

The Resistance News Network shares this collaborative and unified guidance by Palestinian grassroots media organizers to leaders, organizations, media outlets, as well as organizations and individuals standing in solidarity to critically and accurately convey a consistent line regarding the current events in occupied Palestine.

You will recognize the talking points.

So what is U-S-U/RNN?  From that organization’s by-laws:

we shall work

  • to advance and propagate Marxism in the U.S. and Canada through the production and distribution of Marxist literature;
  • to develop our existing Marxists and create new Marxists through education;
  • to foster a consciousness of our movement’s place and purpose in history, a proletarian outlook, and a commitment to Marxist unity among our comrades.

Marxists.  Check.

BLM. Check.  

Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QAIA). Check.

Here and here are what these people support.

Bottom line. From the evidence, it is not clear what level of influence if any American students wield over SJP branches at Virginia colleges.

We have to ask what the FBI is doing surveilling the parking lots of Catholic churches as foreign 10/7 celebrants work openly on American campuses.

We provide visas to students from the Middle East to come here and on our campuses publicly abet Hamas for the slaughter of Jews.   

The Department of Homeland Security should deport those who have done so for violations of Title 8.

GMU SJP provides just another example of the threat in Virginia.

GMU, UVa and Mary Washington are state-supported schools. I have written before what I think those schools and the state should do about it. Governor DeSantis in Florida took the right first steps.  

As for the “allies” of SJP. They are exactly who we expect. We see them regularly on BR. Leftist intersectionality on parade, even if QAIA members would be shot in Gaza.

They truly deserve one another.

updated Oct 29 with link to WSJ column about the Hamas slaughter on Oct 7.


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87 responses to “Foreign Student Influence in Students for Justice in Palestine Chapters at Virginia Universities and their “Allies””

  1. Foreign students attending universities through VISAs granted by the grace of the United States are not guaranteed the right to free speech, to create anti-American coalitions, and to insite riots and/or public uprisings within our Nation – thus Title 8. A superb article by James C. Sherlock. We (The People, American Citizens) are in his debt for this fine work. Our Country is and has been under invasion for a long time. Virginia appears to be the apple of Islam’s eye, a once admirable Commonwealth now approaching Stage 4 of the woke cancer. Remove the invaders or die the slow death that they offer. Time to turn it all around. The General Assembly will be defined by the voters very shortly, perhaps a final stand if there are enough Virginians remaining within the Commonwealth to carry the day. Give the Commonwealth motto one last consideration.

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      They are guaranteed free speech, but they are not allowed to violate Title 8.

      1. I stand corrected, Sir. I simply remain strongly opposed to any provision of assembly by foreign visitors to drive foreign political agendas and influence the young minds of our own students upon the grounds of our own universities. My compliments again on your diligence and service here.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          As a general rule of thumb, SCOTUS has determined that the framers of the Constitution understood the differences between people, person, and citizen in the Bill of Rights.

        2. Lefty665 Avatar

          The remedy for bad speech is more speech, good speech, Justice Louis Brandeis ca 1920.

          The right to speak, assemble and petition is fundamental to our country. We were almost all foreigners at some point, and it was foreigners who helped us win our freedoms.

          That does not make me like pro Hamas speech, but I do have a little more faith in our kids than to fear they will be unduly swayed.

          1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            What is the remedy for breaking federal and state laws by abetting a designated terrorist organization?

          2. Lefty665 Avatar

            Exactly what is prescribed for breaking any of our laws, the punishment established by our legislatures when the laws were enacted and as tried in our judicial system.

            I expect you know that already. What may not be so clear is that you are not empowered to decide what speech is prohibited. It is good for the country that neither you nor I have that authority.

          3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            If it passes the Brandenburg Test (which this does) it is protected speech.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            Interesting. Under that standard, could it be that some of the stuff that Trump says might fall under that rule since he makes threats to individuals then his supporters take subsequent action…
            to the point where some have to have increased security provided.

        3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Thank you. I just wanted to clarify, but the First amendment does not protect what they have done.

          The mobs that abet the designated terrorist group Hamas have broken and continue to break several U.S. and Virginia laws. We each await responses from both governments.

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “a Per the Attorney General’s Guidelines, the FBI does not and may not base any investigative activity solely on the exercise of rights guaranteed by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. In addition, the FBI cannot collect, maintain, or disseminate information on how a US person exercises his or her First Amendment rights unless pertinent to and within the scope of an authorized law enforcement activity. Some forms of speech are not protected, for example true threats. However, statements that may be considered offensive, distasteful, or repugnant may be legal and protected by the First Amendment. Absent some indication of potential violent and/or criminal activity, the FBI cannot investigate solely on the basis of such statements.”

          2. DJRippert Avatar

            “the Attorney General’s guidelines …”

            Not much of a foundation.

            Are the laws cited by Capt Sherlock unconstitutional?

            Is it the Attorney General’s place to make that decision?

          3. DJRippert Avatar

            “the Attorney General’s guidelines …”

            Not much of a foundation.

            Are the laws cited by Capt Sherlock unconstitutional?

            Is it the Attorney General’s place to make that decision?

          4. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            See Brandenburg test….

        4. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          As a general rule of thumb, SCOTUS has determined that the framers of the Constitution understood the differences between people, person, and citizen in the Bill of Rights.

  2. William O'Keefe Avatar
    William O’Keefe

    Reading this leads me to the conclusion that these students believe in Marxism; not the Constitution. Maybe they are worse than the anti war demonstrators of the 60s. It’s too bad that they don’t read about Lenin’s reference to “useful idiots” because that is what many or most of them are.

    1. Lefty665 Avatar

      It took the better part of a decade, but we finally got us out of that misbegotten war in Viet Nam. Support our troops, bring them home alive now was the mantra for some of us. 60,000 of our own troops dead, a quarter of a million wounded, and 2 million Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians dead. For what, the Domino Theory? The only thing “worse” than protesting that war was being for it.

      We had the right to speak and the obligation as citizens to assemble and petition to help our government see the error of its ways. We did, and it eventually did too. We had the issues right.

      There are no indications that either the Israeli people or the Palestinian people want anything but to live in peace and raise their families. The leaders on both sides are murdering terrorists and need to be in the dock as war criminals. Praising them is abhorrent.

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        “There are no indications that either the Israeli people or the Palestinian people want anything but to live in peace and raise their families.”

        Gaza elected Hamas which had publicly sworn to kill the Jews of Israel.

        “From the (Jordan) river to the sea” is a constantly repeated and widespread call for jihad against Israeli Jews.

        To fulfill their pledge to the people of Gaza, Hamas slaughtered Israeli innocents on Oct. 7th.

        So spare us the “Palestinian people” trope. Are there innocents there? Absolutely, and Israel is trying to spare as many as they can. But Hamas must be wiped out.

        The only way to prepare that urban battlefield is to destroy above-ground Hamas infrastructure. Israel dropped leaflets and begged the innocents to leave Gaza city in Northern Gaza. The IAF uses precision weapons to target specific buildings.

        Missiles fired from next to hospitals and mosques continue to fly into Israel.

        The only way to finish that mission is to destroy the tunnel network and never let it be rebuilt. Thus the ground invasion.

        You regret it. So do I. So do the Israelis. They are risking the lives of their own soldiers to get it done.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar

          “Israel is trying to spare as many as they can.”

          Spare us the benevolent Israel tripe. The Israelis have killed as many Palestinian civilians in 3 weeks as the Russians have Ukrainian civilians (around 7,400) in 20 months.

          “Gaza elected Hamas which had publicly sworn to kill the Jews of Israel.”

          Israel elected Netanyahoo et al, so they are no better.

          “(Israel) uses precision weapons to target specific buildings.”

          Yes they do, and many of them are civilian homes. That is a war crime, precision or not. If anything precision weapons makes the crime worse.

          Palestinians who fled south on Israeli orders have been murdered by Israeli shelling and some of the survivors are headed back north to Gaza City to die in their homes with dignity.

          For nearly 75 years we have been supplying the Israelis with weapons they have used to kill Palestinians. All it does is radicalize the survivors and sow another round of war. It is time to try another way. Give the Israelis defensive weapons, like air defense against rockets and quit giving them bombs and artillery ammunition they then use on civilians. That might encourage them to try peace instead of more war.

          1. Would help a bit to learn something about warfare, weapons, and how “defensive” weapons work and don’t before passing judgement on those attempting to defend themselves. Israel developed one of the best systems around; however, complete coverage, even if it were fiscally possible, is operationally impossible. What do you think happens when an unguided 2000 lb Hamas missile is intercepted by an air defense missile? I’ll help you out. Best case, it detonates and a bunch of debris rains down upon the civilian populace – lethal debris. Many cases, the missile breaks up and the warhead simply impacts off target…upon the civilian populace. You are way off here.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar

            What I said was that we should try providing Israel with defensive weapons, instead of offensive.

            It is not an epiphany that defensive weapons are not immaculate, but thank you for stating the obvious.

            It is also not rocket science that 75 years of providing Israel with offensive weapons has only produced successive waves of war and terror. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

            If we stopped supplying Israel with offensive weapons they would pretty quickly start to work on peaceful solutions rather than more war and terror. It cannot work any worse than what we have done for the last 75 years.

            p.s. Israel has one ton missiles, Hamas does not.

          3. I do not state the obvious. I state facts based upon 40 years of engineering and warfighting experience. The case that you present is simply irrational and slanted.

          4. Lefty665 Avatar

            Maybe it was an epiphany to you and not obvious that “complete coverage… is operationally impossible”. It is pretty obvious to the rest of us. But, I’m glad you figured it out. Congrats.

            I’ll see your “40 years of engineering experience” and raise you 5.

            Your judgemental opinion on the case I presented is unsupported as well as itself being irrational.

            Josh Paul who recently resigned from State as a weapons transfer official did so precisely because he could not get any USG support for ceasing to supply Israel with offensive weapons and instead supply them with defensive weapons. He believes in it strongly enough he forfeited his career over the issue. He makes the case better than I can:

            https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/10/20/josh-paul-israel-civilians-00122716

          5. Polls in potential presidential elections paint a different picture. If new presidential elections were held with two candidates, Fatah’s Mahmoud Abbas and Hamas’s Ismail Haniyeh, Abbas would receive 37 percent of the vote, and Haniyeh would win in a landslide with 58 percent.

            Of course, both Hamas and Fatah run dictatorships that arrest and torture political opponents, a problem more severe in Gaza than on the West Bank. So, voters’ responses may reflect fear rather than true preference.

            With that caveat in mind, Gazans give Abbas just 33 percent, while 64 percent would vote for Hamas’s Haniyeh. Haniyeh leads more narrowly on the West Bank but still has 50 percent, to 43 percent for Abbas.

            https://thehill.com/opinion/4273883-mellman-do-palestinians-support-hamas-polls-paint-a-murky-picture/#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20polls%20in%202022,elections%20paint%20a%20different%20picture.

          6. Polls in potential presidential elections paint a different picture. If new presidential elections were held with two candidates, Fatah’s Mahmoud Abbas and Hamas’s Ismail Haniyeh, Abbas would receive 37 percent of the vote, and Haniyeh would win in a landslide with 58 percent.

            Of course, both Hamas and Fatah run dictatorships that arrest and torture political opponents, a problem more severe in Gaza than on the West Bank. So, voters’ responses may reflect fear rather than true preference.

            With that caveat in mind, Gazans give Abbas just 33 percent, while 64 percent would vote for Hamas’s Haniyeh. Haniyeh leads more narrowly on the West Bank but still has 50 percent, to 43 percent for Abbas.

            https://thehill.com/opinion/4273883-mellman-do-palestinians-support-hamas-polls-paint-a-murky-picture/#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20polls%20in%202022,elections%20paint%20a%20different%20picture.

          7. Lefty665 Avatar

            and Israel elected Netanyahoo and his warmongering crowd of state terrorists.

            It is time for the Israelis and Palestinians to try another way.

          8. “It is time for the Israelis and Palestinians to try another way.”

            That’s easy to say, unless one if familiar with the history.

            Ehud Barak offered 97 percent of what Arafat said he wanted, but the offer was dismissed out of hand, even as a point of discussion.

            Ehud was so generous, it would have likely resulted in national suicide, but still it was not enough.

            When liberal generosity fails, that’s when Israel swings conservative.

            Israel has proven that it will give up land and settlements for peace. See Sinai and Egypt. What worked with Egypt, failed with Gaza.

            The radical element within Palestinians has shown that they cannot live in peace with anyone, not even fellow Arabs. They destabilize wherever they go.

            Jordan is 70 percent Palestinian, but was at war with the PLO and kicked them out in 1971. The PLO then went to Lebanon, and created havoc there. The PLO was expelled from Lebanon in 1982.

          9. Lefty665 Avatar

            Cherry pick all you want. It is time to try another way.

          10. No cherry picking. There have been countless proposals since the British Mandate. Palestinians have never accepted any. Nor will a Palestinian official produce any map of the area that shows Israel anywhere.

            Time for the Palestinians to stop trying to destroy Israel and take care of their own people.

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Don’t forget My Lai, and 1.6 million dead women and children.

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          WW II Nancy? The holocaust? I forgot. The holocaust is an inconvenient reference for the left in this case.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            And 500,000 in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

          2. Randy Huffman Avatar
            Randy Huffman

            Not 500,000, I read 120,000.

            How many lives were saved because that brought the end of the war? My father in law was shipped out of Europe and was on a boat to Japan
            with tens of thousands of US Soldiers when those bombs fell. They all felt they were sailing to their ultimate deaths before they got the news. War is hell, but the US and Israel will not take unnecessary lives.

          3. Do you have point here? First of all, your figures are more than double the actual. Secondly, conventional bombing of Japan killed far more. Third, would you have preferred several million U.S. and Japanese dead from the planned invasion? Very naive.

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            That’s the legend.

          5. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            The answer was Yes. And so would Larry and the Troll.

          6. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            This is false.

          7. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Yay. One difference between the trio.

          8. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            The world is far more complex than you think, Walt.

          9. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            And perhaps far less than you “dialectically” “think.”

          10. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            This is false.

          11. Lefty665 Avatar

            There’s a pretty convincing argument that the Russian advance towards Japan was what inspired the Japanese to surrender. They figured it was in their best interest to surrender to us rather than experience the tender ministrations of the Russians.

            The atomic bombs surely made an impression, although perhaps not more than our fire bombings of Tokyo and other cities that killed more civilians.

          12. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            No credible numbers and virtually unknowable. Low of 120,000 to high of 220,000.
            Politics and the military, doncha know

          13. Randy Huffman Avatar
            Randy Huffman

            You put the lower end at the report of 120k, why is that the lower estimate? Could it be less?

            Regardless of the actual number, my point stands, the bombs saved tens or hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides. Many more civilians would have died in an invasion.

          14. Lefty665 Avatar

            While a common perception, and the USG’s official preferred view, your point is conjecture.

            In response to horror both domestically and globally at atomic weapons and our first use of them the USG propagated that the only alternative to A bombs was a bloody invasion and house to house fight to the bitter end with millions of causalities. That was not necessarily the case.

            The approach of the Russian army scared the Japanese. They believed, correctly, that they would be far better off in our hands so they surrendered to us.

            The A bombs no doubt made an impression, although we killed far more civilians with our fire bombing of Japanese cities that we would just as soon forget. Dresden was the model for what Curtis LeMay and the USAF did to Tokyo and other Japanese cities.

          15. Lefty665 Avatar

            It is also an inconvenient reference for the Israelis who are bombing and shelling civilians in Gaza. Crimes against humanity are crimes regardless of the scale or method. The Nazis did not have an exclusive franchise on them.

            Phosphorus on civilians is a war crime.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f7f0eaa9aa2a878693a84510ebc42e9e81d920aa24bb9b2094a1fe1648f209b4.jpg

          16. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Lefty, despite your name (which I believe means you are Left handed, not minded!), you are wrong on this one. War is nasty. Given guerilla terrorists who refuse to be peaceful, I think Israel has no choice but the One State solution. Destruction of Hamas. All the other Arab countries can take them in. Gaza used to be beautiful. What happened? The idiotic Two Staters and Palestine, followed by Hamas. Until Muslims denounce and abandon jihad, there is no other way.

          17. Lefty665 Avatar

            Or maybe until Israel renounces stealing Palestinian land “there is no other way”.

            The point is that after 75 years of war and terror we are no closer to peace than we were in 1947.

            Maybe it is time to try another way. My belief is that both the people of Israel and the Palestinians just want to live in peace and raise their families.

            It is the governments/rulers on both sides who are the warmongering terrorists and bring us endless waves of conflict. A pox on both their houses.

            ps, in addition to being severely left handed I’m also an old school New Deal Populist. There’s no place in today’s Dem Party that I want to be.

          18. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            So you’re sane! I already knew that. We probably are in agreement 80-90% of the time, and we can disagree – like here – with civility. We agree on much of the ends… we may disagree on the means.

          19. Lefty665 Avatar

            Absolutely! There is also value in being able to disagree without being disagreeable. Thank you for the opportunity to do both. Although I wouldn’t go so far as to declare me sane:)

          20. White phosphorus is used to mark targets, not attack civilians. Hamas terrorists are the ones putting their infrastructure in civilian areas.

          21. Lefty665 Avatar

            Here’s a picture of Israeli use of white phosphorus on a civilian apartment building. Indeed it marks targets, they are burned right down to the bone. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7618fe4f76c8a00448216e3d5f0073af0e2eb8bd4b611803fddc789006bab387.jpg

            Do you think war crimes are ok if the other guy does something bad? If we can’t tell the good guys from the bad guys by their behavior, how do we tell them apart?

            “President Biden told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that Israel should conduct its offensive against Hamas in Gaza “in a manner consistent with international humanitarian law that prioritizes the protection of civilians,” the White House said on Sunday.”
            https://www.axios.com/2023/10/29/biden-netanyahu-hamas-israel-war-palestinians-civilians

            and from National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan today:

            “Speaking with CNN’s Jake Tapper, also on Sunday, Sullivan expanded on this, explaining, “Hamas is making life extremely difficult for Israel by taking civilians as human shields and by putting their rocket infrastructure and terrorist infrastructure among civilians.”

            “That creates an added burden for Israel,” he began, “but it does not lessen Israel’s responsibility under international humanitarian law to distinguish between terrorists and civilians and to protect the lives of innocent people.”

            The Israelis have now killed more Palestinian civilians in 3 weeks than the Russians have killed Ukrainian civilians in 20 months. That is a funny way to “protect the lives of innocent people.”

            A 155mm phosphorus shell has around 150 phosphorus bomblets. That’s pretty indiscriminate “marking”. The Israelis get them from us. That makes us an accessory to war crimes when Israel uses them to target civilians.

          22. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            An inconvenient truth is “kill a civilian, create ‘terrorists’.”

            War has changed in the last 100 years with planes and rockets. It’s safer to be a combatant.

          23. It’s definitely safer to be a combatant if you hide and put all your military assets deep underground beneath hospitals, schools and Mosques.

            If that strategy succeeds, then we can expect it to proliferate.

            The more Hamas commits evil, the more the world asks Israel to concede to them. Good governance should be rewarded, not evil.

          24. Lefty665 Avatar

            If you think Netanyahoo running Israel is “”good governance” then have I got a deal on a bridge for you.

            A majority of Israel is itching to get shed of Netanyahoo. They’re just waiting for the smoke to clear to do it.

      3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        “We had the right to speak and the obligation as citizens to assemble and petition to help our government see the error of its ways.” I agree.

        But I just spent a lot time researching and documenting who “we” are in this case. That was, after all, the subject of this article.

        I think I showed that it is reasonable to believe that there are relatively few Americans in the anti-Israel those rallies on and off our campuses.

        Hamas is a designated foreign terrorist organization. Laws have been broken in abetting them.

        Now we’ll have to wait and see how many Hamas operatives got away after crossing the southern border illegally.

        We may find out one day soon. And suddenly.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar

          I’ve got no quibble with you, and no sympathy for anyone praising Hamas.

          While they may not be at rallies, there are many Americans, Jews among them, who are opposed to what the government of Israel is doing. It is important not to conflate them with supporters of Hamas.

      4. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        A good source on Gaza, Hamas, and missed opportunity…
        https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hamas/Conflict-with-Israel

        I need to find a good source for the missteps between 2005 and 2007 giving rise to Hamas as opposition to the PLO.

        BTW, I see Pence aborted his campaign. He should have been forced to carry it to term.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar

          Dean Phillips has announced his campaign. With a little luck he will carry it to the end of Joe’s term.

      5. William O'Keefe Avatar
        William O’Keefe

        You remind me of the saying that if our foresight was as good as our hindsight, we would be better by a damnsigth. View Vietnam in the context of the Cold War and the excessive fear of the spread of communism. Our mistake which was repeated in Iraq and Afghanistan, was that there was insufficient planning for the end game.
        The Hamas charter calls for the elimination of Israel. Before October 7, it controlled the Gaza Strip and it initiated a terrorist attack which violates all of the rules of war.
        Try separating that fact from the reality of the Palestinian situation and the long struggle for a way to get to a Two State solution.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar

          Many of us saw the issues in Viet Nam clearly and spent the better part of a decade assembling and petitioning to get the USG to see clearly too. It did not take all that much foresight. The Domino Theory and if we’re not fighting them in Viet Nam we’ll be fighting the communists in the streets of Los Angeles next. Really, it was not that hard to see the idiocy.

          We let Bin Laden and al Qaeda go at Tora Bora in Afghanistan in December of 2001. How much different the world would be if we had finished them off there, declared victory and come home to the cheers of the world. But no, Duhbya and the neocons were already pulling troops out to invade Iraq. That was a misbegotten war of aggression that was a war crime in pursuit of the neocon wet dream of world dominance. It was to be The New American Century.

          I’d differ with you, it was not innocent “insufficient planning for the end game” it was malignant aggression sold to America with propaganda and lies and perpetrated with war crimes.

          The shameful part is that we are still letting the same malignant neocons drive our foreign policy. After Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya. Syria and Yemen no sane country would let the neocons anywhere near the drivers seat.

          When you mix neocons with zionists, like Blinken, Nuland, et al the mix is especially toxic as we are seeing today in Gaza. When will we decide we have had enough fun, come to our senses and try another way? Before this spirals into WW3 or after?

          1. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            When did you see the Vietnam issues clearly? And, when did we knowingly let bin Laden go?
            Neocons have been tarnished but what does that have to do with Hamas butchering innocent people?
            Your last comment comes across as clearly antisemitic. What’s your beef?

          2. Lefty665 Avatar

            “When did you see the Vietnam issues clearly?
            1965 and it was 1975 before we got out. I was actively working to change our policy starting in January of 1966.

            “when did we knowingly let bin Laden go?
            December of 2001. We had Bin Laden and all of al Qaeda trapped in caves at Tora Bora in eastern Afghanistan. Instead of finishing them off Duhbya and the neocons let them go to prepare for invading Iraq, Al Qaeda scattered like cockroaches never to be easily wrapped up in one place again.

            No, not antisemitic. Just observing the confluence of neocon and zionist malevolence that is contrary to US, world and Israel’s own interests in the middle east.

            We need to be providing Israel with defensive weapons to protect themselves from Hamas, not offensive weapons that enable the murder of Palestinian civilians.

          3. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            Your biases are showing. The escalation in Vietnam did not begin until 1965, so you must also be clairvoyant.
            As for Tora Bora, history doesn’t support your narrative.
            Hamas is evil, so why do you want to let it be?

          4. Lefty665 Avatar

            “The escalation in Vietnam did not begin until 1965, so you must also be clairvoyant.”

            Not clairvoyant, but I was paying attention. Once paying attention the issues were clear. It was not rocket science, that war was profoundly wrong and a disaster from the get go. Which as you may recall is exactly how it turned out.

            As for Tora Bora, history doesn’t support your narrative.

            What pray tell do I have wrong? There is no ambiguity that we had al Qaeda cornered in the caves at Tora Bora in December 2001. It is well documented that Duhbya pulled many of our troops in preparation for the invasion of Iraq (see war as a disaster above – we have no learning curve). It is also well documented that Bin Laden and al Qaeda escaped. Again, what “history does not support” my narrative?

            What is slightly speculative is that Duhbya and the neocons let Bin Laden and al Qaeda go because they wanted them as boogey men to justify their upcoming war of aggression in Iraq and the triumph of the New American Century. That has worked out well hasn’t it?

            Hamas is evil, so why do you want to let it be?

            I have no love for Hamas nor have I ever advocated that “let it be” is a good course. Suggesting that I have is disgusting.

            What I have advocated consistently is that what both the Israeli and Palestinian people want is to live in peace and raise their families.

            Hamas and the Israeli governments are the terrorists, with the US supplying the offensive weapons the Israelis use to commit their terror.

            75 years of insanity have produced the same results again and again. It is time to try another way. Arm the Israelis with defensive weapons and they may quickly decide peace with the Palestinians is more attractive than killing them and vice versa.

          5. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            You and I will just have to agree to disagree on all of your arguments.
            A two state solution would be great if it was possible. Hamas if you read its charter is dedicated to eradicating jews. It simply has to dealt with harshly.

          6. Lefty665 Avatar

            We agree that Hamas needs to be dealt with harshly. I do not believe that includes killing thousands of innocent civilians.

            Israel has now killed 3 Palestinian children for each Israeli Hamas murdered. That is not dealing harshly with Hamas, that is terrorism against innocent women and children.

          7. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            You are glib in using the term terrorism. We do not have verified facts on the number of Palestinians killed and whether or not they were collateral to combat operations.
            The deaths at the hands of Hamas terrorists on October 7 have been validated.
            Before mouthing any more platitudes, please first get you facts and then think about them and the implications of what you recommend.

  3. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Yeah, but it’s so much fun to see their faces when it starts snowing.

    Xenophobic?

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Nancy. Check.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Sherlock, chuck.

  4. Lefty665 Avatar

    Around 6pm Sunday:

    1 Wash Post headline is that Israel is pounding Gaza from air and land.
    2 Hezbollah has stated they will attack Israel if Gaza is invaded.
    3 5:45pm Wash Post reports that rockets have landed in northern Israel.

    4 Israel stated last week that if Hezbollah attacks they will retaliate against Iran.
    5 If they do that and Iran responds, as they will, that will involve us.
    6 Russia has deployed unstoppable Kinzhal hypersonic missiles on planes in range of our carrier group. They will defend Iran as we will defend Israel.

    What could go wrong? When will we decide we have had enough fun?

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