Fast-Growth Counties: Can’t Have the Best of Both Worlds

One of the more remarkable aspects of Del. Clifford L. “Clay” Athey’s proposed land use reform legislation is that it would enshrine the term “New Urbanism” in the state code. Other than to speak generally about “mixed use” and “walkability,” however, he does not try to define what it means. It’s the job of local governments, apparently, to supply the details.

Athey’s bill, which would require fast-growing counties to create “urban management areas” to accommodate growth, is generating a lot of heat, as Bob Burke reports today in “Time to Grow Up“, and it may never pass into law in its current form. But it shows how far legislators — some legislators, at least — have come in thinking about transportation and land use issues.

Athey boiled down to a sound bite that neatly encapsulates the thoughts I’d been trying to communicate in pages and pages of verbiage. Virginia will never solve its transportation problems, he told Burke, until urbanizing counties begin acting and looking more like cities. “What this bill seeks to do is say to counties, if you want to be urban, act like a city or town,” Athey says. “You can’t have the best of both worlds.”

That’s what the “new urbanism” dictum is all about: Nudging counties in the direction of more compact, mixed-use development and pedestrian-friendly streetscapes, thereby economizing on infrastructure. Counties like being more spread out. They just don’t want to pay for their choice. In the upcoming debate, counties will accuse the House of trying to “mandate” new transportation responsibilities upon them without paying for them. The flip side of that argument, of course, is that localities want to maintain the right to make any land use decision they want — and have the state pick up the tab for the transportation impact. With transportation funding reaching a crisis, Virginia just can’t afford that anymore.


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27 responses to “Fast-Growth Counties: Can’t Have the Best of Both Worlds”

  1. Anonymous Avatar

    Well said. I completely agree.

  2. nova_middle_man Avatar
    nova_middle_man

    heres another short soundbyte

    suburbia is not costeffective

    I think the purpose of this bill is to avoid having a situation like what happened in Fairfax where there is a built up Tysons Corner and a builtup Reston seperated by a greenbelt. Think of all of the “waste?” in that greenbelt. You could arguably uproute say an Ashburn or Sterling or a South Riding and stick it in the green belt. By doing this the silver line would conceivably only half to be half as long and you could cut the commutes of people in half and not have to worry about more inferstructure in Loudoun.

    Some challenges to this happening almost all of which have been brought up before

    -the high cost of land in alpha areas which would be passed on
    -finding and keeping or staying at a job in your alpha community instead of another community
    -Counties being willing to play fair by accepting a balance of residents and business instead of trying to limit residents to avoid
    paying for greater services
    -The whole propery rights issue and by-right development
    -The right to “force” people to live in cities and towns (the alternative being to pay the true costs of living outside a zone and having infrasturcture brought to the country)

    I think this could conceivably be an excellent vision for the future.

    The complicating issue is dealing with the suburban mode of development and our past mistakes in bad land use and not keeping up with our inferstructure costs in a very political environment.

  3. Anonymous Avatar

    I haven’t read all the blogs so forgive me if this has been addressed.

    Have you all read the bill? It has no teeth for cities and towns.

    The bill doesn’t REQUIRE anything of cities and towns. It usess the term “may” not “shall.” Hampton Roads can sprawl away.

    It read, “Provides that every county that has adopted zoning shall, and any city or town may, amend its comprehensive plan to incorporate one or more proposed urban development areas”

    Then look at section C.

    “No county, city or town that has amended its comprehensive plan in accordance with this section shall limit or prohibit development pursuant to existing zoning or any application for rezoning based solely on the fact that the property is located outside the urban development area.”

    Even if high growth localities choose to adopt these urban development areas Localities can re-zone away until 2011.

    No teeth.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?071+ful+HB2777

  4. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    You know…. when a town or a county… choose your settlement pattern develops land – they have to provide for water, sewer, electricity, phones, and whatever other infrastructure that is necessary for buildings to function.

    If the electric company or phone company came and told us that we’d be put on a list and that in a few years we’d get our service – we’d all go ballistic.

    Unacceptable. Right?

    If they come and tell us that there is a $100 deposit – we bitch – but we pay because it really is unacceptable to not have the service.

    If the water/sewer hookup fee is 10K, we REALLY have a hissy-fit. But we pay because we need it – and it’s not like we are being ripped off.

    Ditto schools… if we need them.. nail us for 5 or 10 cents on the property tax rate and be done with it.

    If you’re in a “high cost” area – everything is the same. You still have to have phone, electricity, water, sewer, etc.

    Why – we have chosen to do roads, transportation, mobility differently is a bit of a puzzle but it is the way it is apparently.

    But I dont’ thin Any of the ideas about settlement patterns will have a meaninful impact on the road issue – until we agree on how we will fund roads.

    Only then, will we be forced to decide what may be more efficient and intelligent ways to do settlement patterns.

    It’s almost if – the logic is – that it’s the settlement patterns that determine the road outcomes.

    If you never have a Viable process for funding roads to start with, I’m not sure that settlement patterns change the dynamics.

    Perhaps I’m having a brain fart as they say…. and unable to pull back or move around the issue to see other perspectives.

  5. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Just wanted to compliment Bob Burk on his “Time to Grow Up”.

    Really an excellent report and analysis.

    The comment: “Either the state will overhaul how it connects [land] use and transportation or there won’t be another dime of new taxes to pay for new transportation.”

    I’m not sure how many of our GA guys have finally “got in” like Athey appears to have but clearly we’ve reached the point where there is a much more clear appreciation (and even agreement) of how we got to this point in our transportation quandry.

    How we get to the next part – as is pointed out in the article and in Jim B’ assessment is .. problematical.

    Many players, not the least of which is the development community, which has for as long as I can remember, held sway on hese issues in the GA.

    The only thing that has changed is that the VDOT purse is empty – and it takes agreement on how to refill it.

  6. Ray Hyde Avatar

    ” they have to provide for water, sewer, electricity, phones, and whatever other infrastructure “

    What county do you live in? My county provides NONE of the above. Even if you live in a service district, you pay for the water and sewer.

  7. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Ray .. right… the services have to be paid for… that was my point – stated … very poorly.

    My point was that all these services cost individuals and we pay TWICE.

    First a “hook up” fee and then a “use” fee.

    The first for Capital formation for future infrastructure and the second for operatonal costs.

    Roads are the one service that we do not do this way and because we do not -there is no “availability” fee to build a capital fund for future road needs.

    If we used that same model and did not charge a “hook-up” or “availability” fee for other services – we’d not have infrastructure for them either.. when we needed it.

    I believe that because we do not have as direct a link with roads as we do with other services with regard to maintaining a capital fund – that when we run out of road capacity – there is no money to upgrade

  8. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    I continue to be a skeptic.

    We can provide for – even mandate – New Urbanism development – but it won’t change the fact that roads will need to be built and maintained – and without a scheme to fund them – “more” than just raising taxes to replenish a slush fund…

    .. well I’m still skeptical…

    Until we develop more articulated and targetted methods for funding roads beyond generalized tax-funded slush funds – administered by processes other than objective criteria and prioritization disciplines….

    Even roads for New Urbanism projects will end up with the same unanswered question – i.e where will the money come from to build them – and how will we fund the larger arterials and regional roads that serve new Urbanism projects.

    In Spotsylvania – some New Urbanism projects have been proposed – but there is a dyanmic worth looking at.

    The parcel that is proposed for rezoning for a New Urbanist project has a by-right density that is 10 times lower than the proposed New Urbanist project.

    The impact to the existing roads cannot be ignored – because – there is not money to upgrade the road to handle the additional traffic the New Urbanist project will generate.

    The New Urbanist projects itself can’t be expected to proffer ALL the money that will be require to fix the road … the degradation of which was caused by countless developments that preceded the New Urbanist projects with each taking a piece of the capacity until .. when the New Urbanist project came along – there was no more capacity.

    So the cart is before the horse so to speak.

    The prevailing attitude is … that because the New Urbanist project is the “right” way to develop AND because the lack of road capacity is not it’s fault .. that it’s a separate issue that should not affect the approval of the New Urbanist project.

    I know this sounds really dumb – but it is in fact.. the attitude.

    It’s along the lines of “we didn’t cause it and we can’t fix it” so don’t penalize our rezone proposal.

    This is why I say that enabling legislation for New Urbanism is non-responsive to the issue of how we do roads.

    Thoughts?

  9. Ray Hyde Avatar

    “The New Urbanist projects itself can’t be expected to proffer ALL the money that will be require to fix the road … the degradation of which was caused by countless developments that preceded the New Urbanist projects with each taking a piece of the capacity until .. when the New Urbanist project came along – there was no more capacity.”

    Larry, this is exactly the point I have been trying to make. IF residential development has not been paying its way all along, THEN we cannot expect the “new” development to make up for all the backlog we have previously caused.

    No development, whether new urbanist or not can afford to pick up that kind of load.

    It is very popular to blame the new folks and the developers, but the problem is just as much ours – if not more so. We have been contributing to the problem for decades, but we are blaming the new “rampant development”.

    Now that we have ours, we expect to have those that come after us pay for our services, either through enormous proffers or through having their development rights condemned in our favor.

    If we really want the open space that contributes to less traffic congestion, then we should expect to buy it at a fair price. Whether we buy the land that contributes to less traffic, or whether we buy the roads that support the traffic, we should expect to pay either way.

    I would prefer the former, because I believe it creates a better quality of life than building 16 lane behemouth highways to drive SUV’s on at 80+ mph.

    Unfortnately, we have been led to believe that we can have open space for free. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

  10. Ray Hyde Avatar

    “pedestrian-friendly streetscapes, thereby economizing on infrastructure”

    Nonsense, Jim, Nonsense.

    Those pedestrians will live in houses that need services, chief among them, schools. If history is any guide, those urban areas will be more expensive to live in, and more expensive to govern. If we have to provide public transit, that will be more expensive, less friendly, and slower as well.

    There is virtually nothing about this scenario that is REALLY friendly to those pedestrians.

    The people it is friendly to are those that have their estates protected from development, frequently with tax assisted easements, and who drive long distances to support them.

    HUMBUG.

  11. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Ray – two issues:

    1. Stop the practice of new development that does not mitigate impacts to roads.

    Make new development pay.

    2. All taxpayers have to go back and pay to fix roads that are in need of fixing.

    I’m opposed to NOT doing 1. because we can’t figure out how to do 2.

    You’ve got to stop the blood letting FIRST before you can get on to treating the root causes of the bleeding.

    If your solution is to demand that both be fixed or none be fixed – I see that as essentially advocacy of the status quo… continue doing wrong what we’ve been doing wrong… because nothing is the way it ought to be anyhow.

    Change has to be incremental… or else we never move forward.

    We cannot instantly change everything overnight.

    You ..as someone familiar with software development.. should know the difference between intermediate “patches” of software and a total re-write.

    When is the last time you trusted a software developer when he told you he had re-written something and he was very confident that it was “perfect”?

    🙂

    trust but verify….RR

  12. Jim Bacon Avatar

    Larry, I don’t know of anyone — not anyone — who suggests that enabling New Urbanist design principles will alleviate the necessity of pumping more money into the transportation system. New Urbanism is merely one tool of many that we need to use to address traffic congestion. If by creating more mixed-use, pedestrian friendly communities we reduce the average number of vehicle trips from 10 to say, nine, and if we reduce the average length of those trips, and if more of those trips are purely local and don’t require people to access overloaded collector roads and arterials, then we’ve reduced the strain on the transportation system. I don’t see how anyone can argue with that.

    Part of any comprehensive transportation reform must entail devising ways to get people to drive less. That does not obviate the need to invest in transportation capacity to serve a growing population and expanding economy. But it might mean that we can get by with investing less.

  13. Anonymous Avatar

    Jim,

    I agree with smart growth in theory, but I still live in Fairfax County. The County still hasn’t adopted a definition of TOD, but has already approved TOD communities.

    Smart growth could help, but I’d would like someone to show me a couple examples of mixed use communities that have been created in the last 25 years and what their results have been. What percentage of workers in a mixed use community live in the same community? What percentage of residents of a community also work there? In any company, a signficant number of employees don’t make high wages. Short of huge government subsidies for housing or huge payments from the employers for affordable housing, how would a Tysons Corner, for example, ever become a community where a sizable proportion of the workers and residents be identical? Most people working in Fairfax County would not be able to afford to live there even if they wanted to! Moreover, if the employers could afford the big housing subsidies, wouldn’t everyone be better off were those employers just to raise their pay rates for the folks at or near the bottom? But then, these suddenly higher-paid employees would probably be looking to ditch their apartments for single family homes in the hinterlands. At least that’s what the Census Bureau tells us.

    When all of the emotion and fluff is boiled away, smart growth begins to look more like the old “company town.” But, the job security that was in our economy years ago, just is not there today. People working for Company A in Location B are just as likely to be working at Company C in Location D three years from now. The overlapping circles will soon not overlap.

    Just to beat my old familiar drum again, all growth needs infrastructure. While smart growth at Tysons Corner, for example, might mean some people might walk to work or take the Silver Line, the absence of full service grocery stores will mean more car trips to the Giants, Safeways, Harris Teeters, etc. The absence of “rectangular fields” at Tysons means more car trips to fields in McLean and Vienna, which are already overcrowded.

    Then, we have the schools. Fairfax County’s CIP announces a ten-year need for $1.9 B in capital, mainly to update schools. A full $1.3 billion of this is not funded. Under the sweetheart deals given by Gerry Connolly to his developer pals, each of these big, new, million-dollar condos at Tysons will contribute less than $1000 for the schools.

    Stewart Schwartz is a fine gentleman. But if he succeeds, most people in Fairfax County will lose.

  14. Jim Wamsley Avatar
    Jim Wamsley

    Jim:
    Whether New Urbanist design principles are needed, increased density around a central business district decreases miles drive by a significant amount. EMR published a graph of this in Chapter 13, Box 8 page 334 of Shape of the Future. An average household one mile from the central business district will be located 5 miles from their job and drive 9 miles a day. Households locating 5 miles from the central business district will be located 8 miles from work and drive 16 miles a day. Households locating 10 miles from the central business district will be located 10 miles from work and drive 30 miles a day.

    The other principle is the 10X Rule. See Chapter 4, Box 6, page 95 of Shape of the Future. Units scattered randomly yield a total service cost 10 times the service costs for units in a single neighborhood of ten persons per acre. In other words with averaged utility costs, a New Urbanist neighborhood resident subsidizes about 9/10ths of the scattered site dwellers cost.

  15. Anonymous Avatar

    Jim W or EMR. Interesting data. Are there any breakdowns by size of the overall community? In other words, do the distances change significantly when we are dealing with Washington, PA versus Washington, D.C.?

    Also, do overall communities have more than one central business district? For example, I think one could make a good argument that Denver has CBD, both downtown and in and around the Denver Tech Center. If so, are the distances similar?

    Thanks.

  16. Ray Hyde Avatar

    “If your solution is to demand that both be fixed or none be fixed – I see that as essentially advocacy of the status quo.”

    Well, maybe. But I’m a systems engineer, and I advoacate a systems approach because fixing either one alone gives a suboptimum result.

    I agree that new developments shoudl pay their own way. But my observation is that the way we calculate that is to also include all the costs that were NOT paid by previous development.

    So, you have a situation where a highwy was built with general taxes. It has the capacity to sevice 20 developments. Four of them get built, using your previous argument that theer is plenty of capacity, so there is no real cost.

    At some point congestion starts to buld up. Then the current residents, who have benefited from the highway being built with general taxes, now clam that the new residents shoulalso pay for major improvements to the road in order to keep “congestion” in check.

    The first owners never got any assurance that there would never be congestion. If anything, they should have expected that it would eventually occur, precisely because there is not enough general taxes to ensure otherwise.

    In other words, there was never enough tax cash flow to ensure what it was that they were fortunate enough to have (for a while) by being early adopters.

    I don’t see that you can ethically demand that the new guys pay their way, unless the old guys chip in too.

    —————

    There is still the issue of the RATE of growth. If the original general taxes were predicated on a particular rate of growth, then an increased rate will mean increased infrastructure costs, and those that casue this should expect to pay proportionately.

    That is why I think that a tax rate cap is important, because it protects existing residents from sudden surges in new costs.

  17. Ray Hyde Avatar

    I spent a week in the Denver Tech center. The place is a disaster. It was the longest week of my life. Any resemblance between that and a CBD is purely coincidental.

    BUT. It has plenty of parking. It might make a good example of what I have been saying about not building Metro and just giving away office space instead.

    Pedestrian friendly it isn’t. Even though I pent a week there without a car, the walking I did was extraordinary, and that was just to get from one hotel to the next.

    I never once saw anything that looked like public transit there.

  18. Ray Hyde Avatar

    “Whether New Urbanist design principles are needed, increased density around a central business district decreases miles drive by a significant “

    I have never seen independently varified data that shows this is true.

    So far as I can tell, these are the facts.

    1) Wpedestrian friendly destinations are available, trips to those destinations are in addition to and not instead of auto trips.

    2) It takes two transit trips to eliminate one auto trip. This means that transit is facing a 50% disadvatage up front. When you add to that the fact that transit is slower and barely more energy efficient, and not even cost efficient ins spite of massive subsidies, then you have to take Wamsleys arguemnt with a big grain of salt.

    3) Ruburban dwellers drive hardly more that urban dwellers, and less in terms of time. They do burn more gas, but this is a function primarlily of the gross vehicles they choose to drive.

    4) Rural dwellers drive farther but spend less time doing it. They also pay much less in insurance costs, despite having more fatal accidents.

    Dogma is one thing, facts are something else.

    If JW can refute 1 through 4 with peer reviewed references, I’d like to see them.

  19. Ray Hyde Avatar

    “Whether New Urbanist design principles are needed, increased density around a central business district decreases miles drive by a significant “

    I have never seen independently varified data that shows this is true.

    So far as I can tell, these are the facts.

    1) Wpedestrian friendly destinations are available, trips to those destinations are in addition to and not instead of auto trips.

    2) It takes two transit trips to eliminate one auto trip. This means that transit is facing a 50% disadvatage up front. When you add to that the fact that transit is slower and barely more energy efficient, and not even cost efficient ins spite of massive subsidies, then you have to take Wamsleys arguemnt with a big grain of salt.

    3) Ruburban dwellers drive hardly more that urban dwellers, and less in terms of time. They do burn more gas, but this is a function primarlily of the gross vehicles they choose to drive.

    4) Rural dwellers drive farther but spend less time doing it. They also pay much less in insurance costs, despite having more fatal accidents.

    Dogma is one thing, facts are something else.

    If JW can refute 1 through 4 with peer reviewed references, I’d like to see them.

  20. Ray Hyde Avatar

    “The other principle is the 10X Rule.”

    This rule is a figment of EMR’s imagination. We have discussed this here previously and come to the conclusion that wile some costs may be higher, they ar paid by the residents anyway.

    This self inflicted “rule” flies in the face of the frequently quoted fact that farms and open space pay 3x what they cost in services.

  21. Ray Hyde Avatar

    “An average household one mile from the central business district will be located 5 miles from their job and drive 9 miles a day. Households locating 5 miles from the central business district will be located 8 miles from work and drive 16 miles a day. Households locating 10 miles from the central business district will be located 10 miles from work and drive 30 miles a day.”

    As far as I can tell, there are no official statistics that support this idea.

    Besides, it depends only on VMT and not on pollution generated or time in transit, or costs.

    Really, let’s look at the WHOLE picture.

  22. Ray Hyde Avatar

    Shucks, I’d be happy if I could just use my by-right density. But, there are so many additional requirements, that I can’t even do that.

    Eventually, my only option will be to sell out to someone who plans to request a rezoning.

    At what point do the rules work against us?

  23. Ray Hyde Avatar

    “do overall communities have more than one central business district? “

    Of course they do. Marshall, as small as it is has at least two, and probably three central business districts.

    Warrenton has at least four or five.

    Manassas has twenty or more.

    By central business district, I mean locations whre you cannot reasonably walk to more than a few colocated businesses, and carry your puchases to the car. (Or metro).

    If you consider some super stores, you cannot even reasonably walk to one store. Fortunately, such places now offer electric shopping carts.

  24. Jim Wamsley Avatar
    Jim Wamsley

    The short answer to the question “do the distances change significantly when we are dealing with Washington, PA versus Washington, D.C.?” is yes. ( 4:13 PM, Toomanytaxes ) The basic rule is the A = pi r squared rule. The area increases as the square of the radius.

    The discussion revolves around the amount that development has diverged from the basic planning rules and the extra cost to society for that divergence. When we leave the school house and go to the real world we find that as development diverges from the scalable, it costs more.

  25. Jim Wamsley Avatar
    Jim Wamsley

    “If your solution is to demand that both be fixed or none be fixed – I see that as essentially advocacy of the status quo.”

    Ray Hyde put up an interesting “straw man solution” Demand that both be fixed or none be fixed.

    With his line of thinking we move nowhere. Instead, the next step is to revise our community investment policies. Then future taxes to support new development will decrease. This means accepting the current building patterns while changing future building patterns.

    By changing our community investment patterns we put the true cost of development back into the equation. Those who bet on subsidies for rural lot development will lose. Those who are looking for lower taxes from a lower cost of services, win.

  26. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    re: “I don’t see that you can ethically demand that the new guys pay their way, unless the old guys chip in too.”

    and that is exactly what happens when taxes go up to pay for fixing roads…

    you just need to recognize that there are capital costs and operational costs for EVERYTHING .. INCLUDING roads.

    What I advocate is that EVERYONE share the operational costs for the services and infrastructure that they use.

    .. and that new folks pay for new infrastructure .. for a new home with new sewer connections.

    I’m advocating that new folks pay for new roads just like they pay for new sewer connections.

    This is fair and equitable and more important .. when you assign costs to the individuals who incur those costs – you don’t need a bunch of artificial regulations.. or at least you need far less.

    The more you subsidize something – the more out of whack it gets because once you remove the nexus between use and cost of providing – there is no incentive to be frugal about your use.

    Once it costs you directly for your use – you may much more attention to the difference between what you “want” and what you “need”.

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