Election Law Transformation Continues Apace

The status of the National Popular Vote Compact, which goes into effect once enough states have signed on to let the national totals determine their electoral votes.

By Steve Haner

As I’ve explained too many times to people who won’t believe it, President Joe Biden won Nov. 3. While there remains no evidence of widespread fraud or error, election law changes achieved by Democrats in key states were a major contributing factor to that outcome.

That transformation started here in Virginia in 2020, was boosted by the pandemic, and is continuing into the 2021 General Assembly. Here are some of the key proposals pending which Democrats believe – with reason – will bolster their electoral successes. I also point to a good idea to restore public confidence, which they quickly defeated. These are just some on an incredible list of election bills this year, and that list seems to miss some. 

National Popular Vote Compact. This is the jewel in the crown. Passage of this in Virginia this year would not be sufficient to activate the compact, which requires that member states award their Electoral College votes to the National Popular Vote winner. But organizers are getting close around the U.S.

With this, there would have been no Donald Trump victory in 2016, but more important any Republican running in 2024 would start in a deep well. States like California and New York produce reliable Democratic margins hard to overcome in the more competitive states.

House Bill 1933 is sponsored by Del. Mark Levine , D-Alexandria, and Senate Bill 1101 is sponsored by Sen. Adam Ebbin, D-Alexandria. The Senate bill could have been taken up this week but was not. The House bill passed last year and this year’s version rests in the full House Privileges and Elections Committee. Perhaps the unintended consequences are being noticed.

If the legislature decides to kill the Electoral College, that reduces Virginia’s impact on the presidential choice, but the other changes pending will affect elections all the way down to the local level.

No-Witness Absentee Ballots. Senate Bill 1097 codifies the COVID-justified court decision that absentee ballots need no witness signature. This is pending on the Senate floor.

Absentee Ballot Drop Offs and “Curing.” Senate Bill 1245 is one of several that require local registrars to establish drop-off ballot boxes and examine absentee ballots early to look for fatal problems. If found, the registrar “shall” get in touch with the voter to allow them to fix it. The fix “may” include an entirely new ballot. During 2020 this happened in some Virginia localities, but not all. Allowing a new ballot is a new twist.

Absentee Ballot Processing. House Bill 1888 covers those other absentee provisions but also gets into how the ballots are collected in a central absentee precinct and processed. The patron, Henrico Democrat Del. Schuyler VanValkenburg, touted the bill in a Richmond Times-Dispatch guest column.

Voting Rights Review by Attorney General. This long and complicated proposal, Senate Bill 1395 and House Bill 1890, sets up a pre-clearance process for just about any state or local change dealing with elections and hands the decision to the Office of the Attorney General. If it passes it will require closer examination later, but this snippet from the summary is illustrative:

Certain unlawful actions, including knowingly communicating false information to voters, that are currently subject to criminal penalties will create civil causes of action under the bill.

Sixteen-Year-Old Registration.

 House Bill 2125 would not change the ages for actual voting, but it gets students of high school age on the voter rolls early.

Law Enforcement Powers Stripped from Election Officers. Most probably don’t know that an officer of election, in the absence of a police officer, has law enforcement authority. It is possible to think of situations where that would be good, but Sen. Lionel Spruill, D-Chesapeake, doesn’t like it and reverses it with Senate Bill 1111.

November City Elections. Spruill also has Senate Bill 1157, which moves city and town elections from low-turnout May to high-turnout November. This would start in 2022. Local elections are often official non-partisan, but unofficially just as partisan as any others. The vote on this bill (today) was 19-19 with a partisan mix. Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax broke the tie in favor.

GOP Bills. As noted in the opening, millions of American – rightly or wrongly – have lost confidence in the fairness of the election process. Del. Kirk Cox, R-Colonial Heights, a candidate for Governor, offered a fairly simple proposal:  Make the State Board of Elections evenly divided between the two parties, with three seats each. Currently the party of the Governor gets three seats and the out-party only two.

His House Bill 2088 died on a party-line vote in a House subcommittee yesterday. It is one of several Republican-sponsored bills, many going in the exact opposite direction than the majority party bills. A full Republican package of bills, many of them already defeated, include: Absentee signature matching, returning photo identification requirements, video recording of absentee ballot counts, and criminal penalties for interfering with official count room observers.

An effort to strengthen postmark enforcement on absentee ballots is among those already defeated.

Passed Last Year With Delayed Enactment. Two major election law changes made during the 2020 session are still on the books but not yet in effect. Effective this year, some local elections may feature ranked choice voting on a pilot basis. That will be an interesting experiment.

Next year Virginia starts allowing people to register to vote and then vote on election day, either at the registrar’s office or their actual polling place. Same-day registration is a huge policy change and may require additional personnel in polling places to accomplish.

A bill also passed in 2020 stating that polling places will be open an additional hour, from 6 a.m. to 8 p.m., starting this year. That needs a second vote of approval in this session, and an initial search failed to find a bill doing that. Maybe this is quietly going away. We election officers will applaud.


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112 responses to “Election Law Transformation Continues Apace”

  1. Matt Adams Avatar
    Matt Adams

    Such a lovely time to be alive, you don’t have to prove who you are to vote. If you mess up you get a redo and you needed a permission slip to attend the Presidential Inauguration which was guarded by soldiers and protected by bullet resistant glass and razor wire.

    This was a predictable play, the codification of cutouts granted for the sake of “pandemic”.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Amanda Batten had an interesting bill allowing a voter to ask the poll book to reflect that they would need to show a photo ID. At least in your own case you’d be comfortable that nobody could pretend to be you. As someone who does check-in, though, noticing and keeping track of that on election day would be a pain….my experience is most voters still pull out the driving license.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        It’s honestly dumbfounding how Voter ID is fought tooth and nail, yet they required it witness the President be inaugurated. Heck they even removed National Guard soldiers because they weren’t pure enough, it appears to their line of thinking the BC to enlist wasn’t rigorous enough.

  2. Matt Adams Avatar
    Matt Adams

    Such a lovely time to be alive, you don’t have to prove who you are to vote. If you mess up you get a redo and you needed a permission slip to attend the Presidential Inauguration which was guarded by soldiers and protected by bullet resistant glass and razor wire.

    This was a predictable play, the codification of cutouts granted for the sake of “pandemic”.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Amanda Batten had an interesting bill allowing a voter to ask the poll book to reflect that they would need to show a photo ID. At least in your own case you’d be comfortable that nobody could pretend to be you. As someone who does check-in, though, noticing and keeping track of that on election day would be a pain….my experience is most voters still pull out the driving license.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        It’s honestly dumbfounding how Voter ID is fought tooth and nail, yet they required it witness the President be inaugurated. Heck they even removed National Guard soldiers because they weren’t pure enough, it appears to their line of thinking the BC to enlist wasn’t rigorous enough.

  3. Election day voter registration is a terrible idea. By the time the registrar has a chance to find out that a person registered fraudulently, their vote will have been counted and the election certified.

    I thought the idea was to prevent voter fraud.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Until I read the bill I hadn’t known that military personnel or people residing abroad already could…they just expanded it to universal, as with absentee. I’d rather they do it at the registrar’s office. A GOP bill to turn that into a provisional ballot for just that reason, to let the registrar confirm eligibility, will founder I’m sure.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        Of course it will, checks and balances are too arcane. I say we just go back to dipping your thumb in ink or maybe we just prick fingers and sign in blood.

      2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        But, how many same day register and vote could there be? Discounting Mexicans and Canadians, of course.

        1. I don’t know. Do you?

        2. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Depends on the state, most that allow the practice saw significant increases. Not saying that they are nefarious but it could be used to game the system if so desired.

          Maryland had a record number of SDR.

        3. djrippert Avatar

          Lots of young people who are recently eligible to vote but forgot (or didn’t bother) to register.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            I thought the young could sign up to vote when they got their licenses at DMV? No?

      3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        How long, given the crappy computer systems are up, does it take for the registrar to verify eligibility?

        I certainly could see having the same day ability, but put the onus on the voter. To the registrar he must go to be given a voter registration card, and then off to the precinct.

  4. Election day voter registration is a terrible idea. By the time the registrar has a chance to find out that a person registered fraudulently, their vote will have been counted and the election certified.

    I thought the idea was to prevent voter fraud.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Until I read the bill I hadn’t known that military personnel or people residing abroad already could…they just expanded it to universal, as with absentee. I’d rather they do it at the registrar’s office. A GOP bill to turn that into a provisional ballot for just that reason, to let the registrar confirm eligibility, will founder I’m sure.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        Of course it will, checks and balances are too arcane. I say we just go back to dipping your thumb in ink or maybe we just prick fingers and sign in blood.

      2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        How long, given the crappy computer systems are up, does it take for the registrar to verify eligibility?

        I certainly could see having the same day ability, but put the onus on the voter. To the registrar he must go to be given a voter registration card, and then off to the precinct.

      3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        But, how many same day register and vote could there be? Discounting Mexicans and Canadians, of course.

        1. djrippert Avatar

          Lots of young people who are recently eligible to vote but forgot (or didn’t bother) to register.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            I thought the young could sign up to vote when they got their licenses at DMV? No?

        2. I don’t know. Do you?

        3. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Depends on the state, most that allow the practice saw significant increases. Not saying that they are nefarious but it could be used to game the system if so desired.

          Maryland had a record number of SDR.

  5. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Hey, Nancy, I could have included the felon rights restoration and coming paths to citizenship for undocumented immigrants in my “voting transformation” list. They ARE part of the plan….

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Hey Steve, Democrats don’t make Democrats from immigrants. Republicans do.

      In the second half of 2020, Chase raised more money than any Virginia Republican running for Governor.

      Let that sink in.

      1. Yeah, but democrats do make democrats from violent felons.

        Violent felons overwhelmingly support strict gun control laws.

  6. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Hey, Nancy, I could have included the felon rights restoration and coming paths to citizenship for undocumented immigrants in my “voting transformation” list. They ARE part of the plan….

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Hey Steve, Democrats don’t make Democrats from immigrants. Republicans do.

      In the second half of 2020, Chase raised more money than any Virginia Republican running for Governor.

      Let that sink in.

      1. Yeah, but democrats do make democrats from violent felons.

        Violent felons overwhelmingly support strict gun control laws.

  7. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Just fixed an embarrassing typo. I initially had Nov 6 as election day. Now, what happened on the SIXTH of the month recently that was switched in my brain….?

    About the money, true dat but she started with $0 in March and he at the end of September. Lets give it another quarter. And my check for Kirk, for example, went to his HoD account, which he can transfer.

  8. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Just fixed an embarrassing typo. I initially had Nov 6 as election day. Now, what happened on the SIXTH of the month recently that was switched in my brain….?

    About the money, true dat but she started with $0 in March and he at the end of September. Lets give it another quarter. And my check for Kirk, for example, went to his HoD account, which he can transfer.

  9. LarrytheG Avatar

    Interestingly enough, not a single proposal to thwart massive voting conspiracies ! Geeze!

    On validation, I agree, we need to make it HARD to vote illegally but that’s not the same as making it hard to vote because you’re a Dem!

    I’d have more faith in the GOP proposals if they actually proposed to make voting EASIER but with strict safeguards.

    The problem with the GOP is that for too many years they’ve relied on voter suppression to make up for votes they know they can’t win and won’t try.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      You really don’t read these things, do you. Video taping of count rooms. Criminal sanction for interfering with count room observers. Don’t those sound like some of the issues that sparked 2020 complaints? Also the photo ID and absentee provisions. Both sides have whined about the other for a long time, and I’ll match you “baseless” claim of voters suppression and foreign interference against “baseless” claims of stolen elections. Photo ID is not voter suppression.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        I did and do read them. The GOP is CLEARLY opposed to more easier voting and clearly focused on putting roadblocks instead of proposing ways that are MORE secure and allow MORE voting.

        Photo ID by itself is not voter supression but a whole passal of other things put in place by the GOP ARE – and no – you don’t need to ask me – just look at the court cases the GOP has lost over them – recently!

        The thing almost never mentioned is what it takes to get registered initially. How hard is it to get registered in the first place compared to voting later?

        I stick by my criticism. When I see the GOP working just as hard to increase voting as they are to make it harder, I’ll reconsider.

        You’re a precinct worker and I have been also. Tell folks how many times you have personally witnessed voter fraud? How common is it? I think in the several years I did it, I saw maybe one or two, not anywhere near the claims of “massive” coming from the GOP who actually tried to corrupt the election in front of everyone – the POTUS AND the Congress AND the mob they sent to stop the vote!

        1. “The thing almost never mentioned is what it takes to get registered initially. How hard is it to get registered in the first place compared to voting later?”

          Both are incredibly easy. So why are you all the time bitching and moaning about alleged voter suppression?

          60 years ago? Yes. There was rampant voter suppression. Today? Absolutely not.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Voter registratrion is fairly rigorous in my county and getting an absentee ballot also … I had to provide several pieces of info including my drivers license and SS.

            How many people have been found to register “illegally” as opposed to voting “illegally”?

            Ask Steve, as a poll worker, how many “illegal” voting he has seen.

            Voter Supression?

            https://www.acluofnorthcarolina.org/en/news/block-vote-voter-suppression-2020

            and ALWAYS the GOP behind it!

            Making it HARD to vote legally and not making it easy to vote legally is suppression.

          2. Here’s a couple of gems from the article you posted:

            “Some states restrict registration by allowing people to register long in advance of an election.” They RESTRICT registration by ALLOWING people to register early. Got it! You’re so right. that is CLEARLY a case of voter suppression.

            “By forcing voters to register before the election even becomes salient to the public, it discourages people from registering in the first place.” An incredibly awkward sentence that contradicts the previous statement.

            Also, the primary complaint in the article is against voter ID, which you, yourself, earlier stated you do not think is voter suppression.

            Finally, if you consider the ACLU to be an unbiased source of information then you are too far gone to save, sir.

          3. ” I had to provide several pieces of info including my drivers license and SS.”

            Oh my God! I’m amazed you survived the trauma.

            If you consider that rigorous then you are a whiner.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            I think you missed the part about registering ahead of time as a REQUIREMENT and if you don’t register ahead of time, you cannot vote. How long before an election can you be denied from registering and it not be suppression?

          5. Nope. I didn’t miss it. I even made note of the contradiction in my comment.

            ““By forcing voters to register before the election even becomes salient to the public, it discourages people from registering in the first place.” An incredibly awkward sentence that contradicts the previous statement.”

            You still seem to be suffering from reading comprehension problems.

  10. LarrytheG Avatar

    Interestingly enough, not a single proposal to thwart massive voting conspiracies ! Geeze!

    On validation, I agree, we need to make it HARD to vote illegally but that’s not the same as making it hard to vote because you’re a Dem!

    I’d have more faith in the GOP proposals if they actually proposed to make voting EASIER but with strict safeguards.

    The problem with the GOP is that for too many years they’ve relied on voter suppression to make up for votes they know they can’t win and won’t try.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      You really don’t read these things, do you. Video taping of count rooms. Criminal sanction for interfering with count room observers. Don’t those sound like some of the issues that sparked 2020 complaints? Also the photo ID and absentee provisions. Both sides have whined about the other for a long time, and I’ll match you “baseless” claim of voters suppression and foreign interference against “baseless” claims of stolen elections. Photo ID is not voter suppression.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        I did and do read them. The GOP is CLEARLY opposed to more easier voting and clearly focused on putting roadblocks instead of proposing ways that are MORE secure and allow MORE voting.

        Photo ID by itself is not voter supression but a whole passal of other things put in place by the GOP ARE – and no – you don’t need to ask me – just look at the court cases the GOP has lost over them – recently!

        The thing almost never mentioned is what it takes to get registered initially. How hard is it to get registered in the first place compared to voting later?

        I stick by my criticism. When I see the GOP working just as hard to increase voting as they are to make it harder, I’ll reconsider.

        You’re a precinct worker and I have been also. Tell folks how many times you have personally witnessed voter fraud? How common is it? I think in the several years I did it, I saw maybe one or two, not anywhere near the claims of “massive” coming from the GOP who actually tried to corrupt the election in front of everyone – the POTUS AND the Congress AND the mob they sent to stop the vote!

        1. “The thing almost never mentioned is what it takes to get registered initially. How hard is it to get registered in the first place compared to voting later?”

          Both are incredibly easy. So why are you all the time bitching and moaning about alleged voter suppression?

          60 years ago? Yes. There was rampant voter suppression. Today? Absolutely not.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Voter registratrion is fairly rigorous in my county and getting an absentee ballot also … I had to provide several pieces of info including my drivers license and SS.

            How many people have been found to register “illegally” as opposed to voting “illegally”?

            Ask Steve, as a poll worker, how many “illegal” voting he has seen.

            Voter Supression?

            https://www.acluofnorthcarolina.org/en/news/block-vote-voter-suppression-2020

            and ALWAYS the GOP behind it!

            Making it HARD to vote legally and not making it easy to vote legally is suppression.

          2. Here’s a couple of gems from the article you posted:

            “Some states restrict registration by allowing people to register long in advance of an election.” They RESTRICT registration by ALLOWING people to register early. Got it! You’re so right. that is CLEARLY a case of voter suppression.

            “By forcing voters to register before the election even becomes salient to the public, it discourages people from registering in the first place.” An incredibly awkward sentence that contradicts the previous statement.

            Also, the primary complaint in the article is against voter ID, which you, yourself, earlier stated you do not think is voter suppression.

            Finally, if you consider the ACLU to be an unbiased source of information then you are too far gone to save, sir.

          3. ” I had to provide several pieces of info including my drivers license and SS.”

            Oh my God! I’m amazed you survived the trauma.

            If you consider that rigorous then you are a whiner.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            I think you missed the part about registering ahead of time as a REQUIREMENT and if you don’t register ahead of time, you cannot vote. How long before an election can you be denied from registering and it not be suppression?

          5. Nope. I didn’t miss it. I even made note of the contradiction in my comment.

            “”By forcing voters to register before the election even becomes salient to the public, it discourages people from registering in the first place.” An incredibly awkward sentence that contradicts the previous statement.”

            You still seem to be suffering from reading comprehension problems.

  11. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    What a tilted table that has been set up by the “Club”. Too bad we are not in that club. Well they use it on my head it seems. George Carlin once said: “the truth about the American Dream, you have to be asleep to believe in it.”

  12. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    What a tilted table that has been set up by the “Club”. Too bad we are not in that club. Well they use it on my head it seems. George Carlin once said: “the truth about the American Dream, you have to be asleep to believe in it.”

  13. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    If only we could use these for voter registration…
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b7/cc/dc/b7ccdcb42a106a797aae8b89ebfc742c.jpg

  14. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    If only we could use these for voter registration…
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b7/cc/dc/b7ccdcb42a106a797aae8b89ebfc742c.jpg

  15. David Bither Avatar
    David Bither

    Easily the least secure voting method and most susceptible to fraud is mail-in (for those residing within the state). Couple this with not requiring photo ID and you have a voting system with little legitimacy. This is why 85% of EU and 78% of OEDC (developing) countries ban mail-in voting and require an ID to validate a voter’s authenticity.

    Democrat claims of voter suppression rarely get past the shrieking stage and do not survive examination and debate for lack of evidence. This includes a belief that “people of color’s” ability to acquire and produce an ID to get a mortgage, buy a gun, or drive a car magically dissipate when it comes to voting. I would say this is a prejudicial view, but we know Democrats are immune to that affliction.

    And notice the robustly funded efforts by Democrats for ballot harvesting in states where it is legalized…no matter quality or legality of the voter…all are welcome. If we ensured voters understood the Constitution, paid their taxes, and were legal citizens, we would have a better chance at legitimate elections.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      re: ” If we ensured voters understood the Constitution, paid their taxes, and were legal citizens, we would have a better chance at legitimate elections.”

      WOW – Is that how the Constitution “works”? If you don’t “understand” the Constitution, you can’t vote?

      That’s right out of Jim Crow!

      There are myriad ways to validate IDs now days. Most involve challenge questions about your SS, your account number, your street address, etc..

      Two factor authentication is becoming the standard for logging in to some accounts now.

      Let folks with phones use two-factor authentication to vote, do the other manually with tight verfication including photo ID.

      The point is that there ARE ways to make legal voting easier and illegal voting harder without suppressing the vote itself.

      That’s what the GOP should be proposing not suppression as an excuse to stop fraud.

      voting in other countries:

      Poll workers in Ireland can ask voters for proof of identity, but voters have a choice of “five different forms of photo ID, in addition to bank books, credit cards, checkbooks and marriage certificates.”

      “In Switzerland, every registered voter is sent a registration card prior to an election, and if the voter brings her registration card to the polling place, no additional identification is needed.”

      “Canada permits any voter who lacks one of the allowed forms of photo identification to present two of forty-five other forms of identification or documentation that have the voter’s name and address on at least one. Acceptable documents include leases, student transcripts, and utility bills.”

      “India allows the use of fifteen different types of identification, ranging from property documents to arms licenses to income tax identity cards. Included, too, are forms of identification most likely to be possessed by the poor…. For instance, voters can present ration cards issued to the poor to allow them to buy food staples and kerosene oil at subsidized prices.”

      That’s in addition to many countries that don’t require ID to vote, such as “Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom (with the exception of Northern Ireland),” the authors wrote.

      “Countries such as Spain, Greece, France, Malta, Belgium, and Italy provide national identity documents to their citizens to use for many purposes, including travel, banking, and healthcare access as well as voting.”

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/voter-id-proponents-point-to-laws-in-other-countries/2012/07/12/gJQAVlGCfW_blog.html

      1. David Bither Avatar
        David Bither

        Jim crow…? I never mentioned a prohibition.

        My last point which I thought was clear enough was that understanding our Constitution, our rights and the government’s makeup, limitations and responsibilities (i.e., an educated citizen) would lead to more legitimate…higher quality voting.

        And yes, a citizen that doesn’t pay their taxes and is incentivized by what the government doles out does not do the Republic a service. They are fortunate to live in a system that allows them to vote for candidates that target and redistribute money from other citizens without any skin in the game. With this we soon run the risk of the whole system collapsing when the net weight of those that see government as an entity that “gives” surpassing the ability of other citizens to pay.

        Regarding voter authentication: Yes, there are a lot of ways to do it. The imperative is that it be done and mail-in voting makes authentication difficult and susceptible to fraud.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          re: ” an educated citizen) would lead to more legitimate…higher quality voting”

          okay, so maybe I do not understand. You would have some sort of requirements along these lines to be permitted to vote?

          On mail-in voting. If you have previously gone through a rigorous registration process – how do we currently assure mail-in voting for armed services and others abroad?

          Are you saying that ANY mail-in voting is suseptible and that even armed-forces mail-in voting is also?

    2. Thank God we had mail-in voting in place in most states in this year of the pandemic. And now that we have it, and have proved how important it was to voters this year during the pandemic, and have proved it was not an invitation to fraud [yes, proved, at least to the satisfaction of all those courts that looked into the barrage of allegations of fraud], and have several states already mailing return-mail ballots automatically to all registered voters, and have no persuasive challenges to those states’ election processes — I think you are beating a dead horse here to think you are going to get the GA to take Virginia election law in the direction of more restrictions. Come up with real, demonstrable examples of voter fraud attributable to mail-in voting — rather than the presumption of fraud absent proof of the negative — or the people of Virginia (including this person) are going to tune you out.

  16. David Bither Avatar
    David Bither

    Easily the least secure voting method and most susceptible to fraud is mail-in (for those residing within the state). Couple this with not requiring photo ID and you have a voting system with little legitimacy. This is why 85% of EU and 78% of OEDC (developing) countries ban mail-in voting and require an ID to validate a voter’s authenticity.

    Democrat claims of voter suppression rarely get past the shrieking stage and do not survive examination and debate for lack of evidence. This includes a belief that “people of color’s” ability to acquire and produce an ID to get a mortgage, buy a gun, or drive a car magically dissipate when it comes to voting. I would say this is a prejudicial view, but we know Democrats are immune to that affliction.

    And notice the robustly funded efforts by Democrats for ballot harvesting in states where it is legalized…no matter quality or legality of the voter…all are welcome. If we ensured voters understood the Constitution, paid their taxes, and were legal citizens, we would have a better chance at legitimate elections.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      re: ” If we ensured voters understood the Constitution, paid their taxes, and were legal citizens, we would have a better chance at legitimate elections.”

      WOW – Is that how the Constitution “works”? If you don’t “understand” the Constitution, you can’t vote?

      That’s right out of Jim Crow!

      There are myriad ways to validate IDs now days. Most involve challenge questions about your SS, your account number, your street address, etc..

      Two factor authentication is becoming the standard for logging in to some accounts now.

      Let folks with phones use two-factor authentication to vote, do the other manually with tight verfication including photo ID.

      The point is that there ARE ways to make legal voting easier and illegal voting harder without suppressing the vote itself.

      That’s what the GOP should be proposing not suppression as an excuse to stop fraud.

      voting in other countries:

      Poll workers in Ireland can ask voters for proof of identity, but voters have a choice of “five different forms of photo ID, in addition to bank books, credit cards, checkbooks and marriage certificates.”

      “In Switzerland, every registered voter is sent a registration card prior to an election, and if the voter brings her registration card to the polling place, no additional identification is needed.”

      “Canada permits any voter who lacks one of the allowed forms of photo identification to present two of forty-five other forms of identification or documentation that have the voter’s name and address on at least one. Acceptable documents include leases, student transcripts, and utility bills.”

      “India allows the use of fifteen different types of identification, ranging from property documents to arms licenses to income tax identity cards. Included, too, are forms of identification most likely to be possessed by the poor…. For instance, voters can present ration cards issued to the poor to allow them to buy food staples and kerosene oil at subsidized prices.”

      That’s in addition to many countries that don’t require ID to vote, such as “Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom (with the exception of Northern Ireland),” the authors wrote.

      “Countries such as Spain, Greece, France, Malta, Belgium, and Italy provide national identity documents to their citizens to use for many purposes, including travel, banking, and healthcare access as well as voting.”

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/voter-id-proponents-point-to-laws-in-other-countries/2012/07/12/gJQAVlGCfW_blog.html

      1. David Bither Avatar
        David Bither

        Jim crow…? I never mentioned a prohibition.

        My last point which I thought was clear enough was that understanding our Constitution, our rights and the government’s makeup, limitations and responsibilities (i.e., an educated citizen) would lead to more legitimate…higher quality voting.

        And yes, a citizen that doesn’t pay their taxes and is incentivized by what the government doles out does not do the Republic a service. They are fortunate to live in a system that allows them to vote for candidates that target and redistribute money from other citizens without any skin in the game. With this we soon run the risk of the whole system collapsing when the net weight of those that see government as an entity that “gives” surpassing the ability of other citizens to pay.

        Regarding voter authentication: Yes, there are a lot of ways to do it. The imperative is that it be done and mail-in voting makes authentication difficult and susceptible to fraud.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          re: ” an educated citizen) would lead to more legitimate…higher quality voting”

          okay, so maybe I do not understand. You would have some sort of requirements along these lines to be permitted to vote?

          On mail-in voting. If you have previously gone through a rigorous registration process – how do we currently assure mail-in voting for armed services and others abroad?

          Are you saying that ANY mail-in voting is suseptible and that even armed-forces mail-in voting is also?

    2. Thank God we had mail-in voting in place in most states in this year of the pandemic. And now that we have it, and have proved how important it was to voters this year during the pandemic, and have proved it was not an invitation to fraud [yes, proved, at least to the satisfaction of all those courts that looked into the barrage of allegations of fraud], and have several states already mailing return-mail ballots automatically to all registered voters, and have no persuasive challenges to those states’ election processes — I think you are beating a dead horse here to think you are going to get the GA to take Virginia election law in the direction of more restrictions. Come up with real, demonstrable examples of voter fraud attributable to mail-in voting — rather than the presumption of fraud absent proof of the negative — or the people of Virginia (including this person) are going to tune you out.

  17. Steve: re the “jewel in the crown” (the Nat’l Pop. Vote Compact), why should any state that has a below-median US population, and therefore currently has more Electoral College influence than its share of the US population, be in favor of this “jewel”? And if those states are not going to sign onto the Compact, why should any of the others, including Virginia, do so prematurely? What am I missing here? This Compact idea is nuts.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      I think mail-in absentees, no excuse needed, are fine. But it is ripe for abuse and I’ve seen it, so careful controls are needed. Mailing out unsolicited ballots to the entire voter list is a huge problem and some of the issues this year showed that. I think early voting in person is absolutely fine. Republicans should accept widespread absentee and early voting in person and adjust their tactics.

      I agree this GA is not going back on any of this.

      The drive for the popular vote compact is 100% partisan fury over the 2016 Trump victory, the fifth time in US history somebody lost the popular vote and won the Electoral College. I agree, the smaller states are throwing away power, but more important to me is it throws away federalism. Perhaps Senate P&E will hold the line.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Tactics? There are tactics involved with voting?

        Like poll taxes? Intimidation? Shutting down urban polling places? Four forms of photo ID?

        What kind of “tactics” could there be?

  18. Steve: re the “jewel in the crown” (the Nat’l Pop. Vote Compact), why should any state that has a below-median US population, and therefore currently has more Electoral College influence than its share of the US population, be in favor of this “jewel”? And if those states are not going to sign onto the Compact, why should any of the others, including Virginia, do so prematurely? What am I missing here? This Compact idea is nuts.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      I think mail-in absentees, no excuse needed, are fine. But it is ripe for abuse and I’ve seen it, so careful controls are needed. Mailing out unsolicited ballots to the entire voter list is a huge problem and some of the issues this year showed that. I think early voting in person is absolutely fine. Republicans should accept widespread absentee and early voting in person and adjust their tactics.

      I agree this GA is not going back on any of this.

      The drive for the popular vote compact is 100% partisan fury over the 2016 Trump victory, the fifth time in US history somebody lost the popular vote and won the Electoral College. I agree, the smaller states are throwing away power, but more important to me is it throws away federalism. Perhaps Senate P&E will hold the line.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Tactics? There are tactics involved with voting?

        Like poll taxes? Intimidation? Shutting down urban polling places? Four forms of photo ID?

        What kind of “tactics” could there be?

  19. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    I really don’t like the Voting Rights Act with review by the Attorney General. I t seems to invite mischief-making. I would have to see a lot of evidence for the need for this bill.

    Same day registration seems to portend delays at the polling station. I know other states have it. Does anyone know what experience they have had?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Uh Dick,
      This is Virginia. Other states don’t matter… unless it involves how much better they handle a Trump “plan no plan” for vaccine distribution.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Now you’ve gone to snark. Shoulda stood in bed. Yes, there are indeed forms of voter suppression and you listed some but you aren’t saying that’s what goes in in VA, are you? “Tactics” would include accepting early voting and working to turn out your own, accepting mail in absentee and again encouraging your voters to do that for their own convenience. You will recall our ex-presidential genius told his voters to go stand in line all day. Dummkopf.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Oh… so inclusion tactics. Usually such have gone the other way.

          Hey YOU picked him, not me. Brilliant tactician, he was.

          1. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            I can say I voted against him twice in 2016, primary and general. But he won, and I’m the first to admit much of what he did I agreed with. Not all. He usually did or tried what he promised. I voted for him in 2020 because I liked so many of the people he had appointed and wanted to keep them. I couldn’t pull the lever for Biden, conversely, because I was so sure I’d dislike the people he would be appointing. Yellen doing a two-step on a wealth tax the other day confirmed my concerns….and suddenly she’s all soft on economic downsides to minimum wage.

            This will not be Obama Administration III but Woke Administration I. Biden’s a figurehead.

          2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            We’ll see. Maybe simple competence will suffice.

            As to unsolicited mail-in ballots, were I so inclined to commit voter fraud, the one way I would NOT use is a fraudulent mail-in ballot.

            Just opening an envelope delivered by the USPS that is not addressed to you is painfully punished.

          3. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Nancy_Naive | January 22, 2021 at 7:29 am |
            We’ll see. Maybe simple competence will suffice.

            As to unsolicited mail-in ballots, were I so inclined to commit voter fraud, the one way I would NOT use is a fraudulent mail-in ballot.

            Just opening an envelope delivered by the USPS that is not addressed to you is painfully punished.”

            Both activities are painfully punished, but you’d have to be caught for that to be an issue.

          4. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            And they can and do catch fish…
            Bruce Bartman of Marple Township, Pa.

  20. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    I really don’t like the Voting Rights Act with review by the Attorney General. I t seems to invite mischief-making. I would have to see a lot of evidence for the need for this bill.

    Same day registration seems to portend delays at the polling station. I know other states have it. Does anyone know what experience they have had?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Uh Dick,
      This is Virginia. Other states don’t matter… unless it involves how much better they handle a Trump “plan no plan” for vaccine distribution.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Now you’ve gone to snark. Shoulda stood in bed. Yes, there are indeed forms of voter suppression and you listed some but you aren’t saying that’s what goes in in VA, are you? “Tactics” would include accepting early voting and working to turn out your own, accepting mail in absentee and again encouraging your voters to do that for their own convenience. You will recall our ex-presidential genius told his voters to go stand in line all day. Dummkopf.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Oh… so inclusion tactics. Usually such have gone the other way.

          Hey YOU picked him, not me. Brilliant tactician, he was.

          1. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            I can say I voted against him twice in 2016, primary and general. But he won, and I’m the first to admit much of what he did I agreed with. Not all. He usually did or tried what he promised. I voted for him in 2020 because I liked so many of the people he had appointed and wanted to keep them. I couldn’t pull the lever for Biden, conversely, because I was so sure I’d dislike the people he would be appointing. Yellen doing a two-step on a wealth tax the other day confirmed my concerns….and suddenly she’s all soft on economic downsides to minimum wage.

            This will not be Obama Administration III but Woke Administration I. Biden’s a figurehead.

          2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            We’ll see. Maybe simple competence will suffice.

            As to unsolicited mail-in ballots, were I so inclined to commit voter fraud, the one way I would NOT use is a fraudulent mail-in ballot.

            Just opening an envelope delivered by the USPS that is not addressed to you is painfully punished.

          3. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Nancy_Naive | January 22, 2021 at 7:29 am |
            We’ll see. Maybe simple competence will suffice.

            As to unsolicited mail-in ballots, were I so inclined to commit voter fraud, the one way I would NOT use is a fraudulent mail-in ballot.

            Just opening an envelope delivered by the USPS that is not addressed to you is painfully punished.”

            Both activities are painfully punished, but you’d have to be caught for that to be an issue.

          4. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            And they can and do catch fish…
            Bruce Bartman of Marple Township, Pa.

  21. dalhommer Avatar

    I am only going to dispute “no evidence of voter fraud.” I take it when the media said there was no evidence, that’s where your trusting soul stopped. I gather you didn’t even bother to watch the election fraud hearings. I’ve said it before and I will say it again: don’t trust MSM, not even FOX. They’re lying to us. Here’s Sydney Powell’s 270 page document chock full of voter fraud: https://wpcdn.zenger.news/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/24190822/2020-12-23-Sidney-Powell-Team-Binder-ZENGER-NEWS.pdf.
    And then there’s all this in Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/te7840ki40dsrs8/Letter%20to%20Senators%20w-exhibits..pdf?dl=0
    Here’s a compilation of state fraud claims: https://www.newsmax.com/michaeldorstewitz/vote-fraud-baseless-merit-scotus/2021/01/02/id/1003982/

    Again before people cry out “conspiracy theorist,” you clearly don’t understand the way MSM works nor understand the definition of a conspiracy theory. Call someone a conspiracy theorist, and, voilà, everybody shuts down their critical thinking skills and believes whatever the MSM’s narrative is. Think Operation Mockingbird. Nope, I don’t know why the courts went along with it.

    I am only providing facts, not theories.
    But I will say that it sure looks like a banana republic to me.

    And before people respond with comments, I hope you don’t show your ignorance and not even go through the links.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      I am privy to a conversation between two Virginia 2020 candidates and that lawyer in which she admitted being a liar. A liar. Once a lawyer admits that, accept nothing. I wouldn’t want to be standing next to her during the lawsuit the voting machine company has filed for damages.

      Sorry you have accepted the lies. This why the Republican Party is basically dead for a while, and our former lower p president is 100% to blame. He started intentionally building this narrative well before Nov. 3 when he saw the way the election would go. He wanted to go to bed claiming a win that night, then claim overnight it was stolen.

      1. idiocracy Avatar

        The Republican Party, at least in Virginia, was a dumpster fire long before Trump.

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      I think you have raised an important point about voting fraud. I would like to add that if voting fraud actually happened or not is really not that important. It is the perception by millions that voting fraud was real. That is the important point. Those who believe will never change that perception and this will shape elections for many years to come.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Oh, yes….When I watched the Giuliani-Powell news conference weeks ago, I knew that either way — true or false — the allegations ripped a huge gap in public confidence. The conspiracy they outlined was so outrageous. Now weeks later most of it has fallen apart or been laughed out of court, but everybody who believed then still does. Deeply. And frankly, that would also concern the Democrats.

    3. LarrytheG Avatar

      Republican election officials themselves said there was no WIDESPREAD election fraud and scores of judges have thrown out such claims because there actually was no evidence or proof… just assertions that it “could” have happened.

      The Republican party itself bears responsibility for this kind of disinformation and misinformation and conspiracy theories that have been promoted by some in the party while others stood by and said nothing and it has spread to folks who really do believe it and have joined militia and actually talk about “hunting” election officials and elected Governors and Congressmen.

      At some point, the GOP needs to openly disavow these folks and get back to being a legitimate party.

      The so-called “dumpster fire” in Virginia is none other than of the condition of the GOP with respect to the very disparate wings of the party.

      As much as some would have us believe – there is no such “wing” in the Dems for Antifa types… there are no Dem/Antifa analogs to Amanda Chase or for that matter Cruz or Hawley or Whittman.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Just as delusional as “delhommer.” Jeez, a Bernie Sanders supporter went to a baseball diamond to try to kill Republicans. AOC and her ilk are bats&%t crazy.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          You’re confusing the acts of a few individuals with movements of people who believe in conspiracy theories and mount attacks with weapons on State Houses, Governors, and Congress.

          There is no comparison and a significant number of GOP have done what Whittman did and lend credence to the conspiracy theories.

          Nothing delusional about the actual facts. For four years, some of the GOP has engaged in disinformation, misinformation, attacking others and the MSM and conspiracy theories while others in the GOP stood by and said nothing…

          The folks running around now – associated themselves with the GOP – like Corey Stewart and Amanda Chase. Find me a Dem in Virginia who is like that on the left.

  22. dalhommer Avatar

    I am only going to dispute “no evidence of voter fraud.” I take it when the media said there was no evidence, that’s where your trusting soul stopped. I gather you didn’t even bother to watch the election fraud hearings. I’ve said it before and I will say it again: don’t trust MSM, not even FOX. They’re lying to us. Here’s Sydney Powell’s 270 page document chock full of voter fraud: https://wpcdn.zenger.news/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/24190822/2020-12-23-Sidney-Powell-Team-Binder-ZENGER-NEWS.pdf.
    And then there’s all this in Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/te7840ki40dsrs8/Letter%20to%20Senators%20w-exhibits..pdf?dl=0
    Here’s a compilation of state fraud claims: https://www.newsmax.com/michaeldorstewitz/vote-fraud-baseless-merit-scotus/2021/01/02/id/1003982/

    Again before people cry out “conspiracy theorist,” you clearly don’t understand the way MSM works nor understand the definition of a conspiracy theory. Call someone a conspiracy theorist, and, voilà, everybody shuts down their critical thinking skills and believes whatever the MSM’s narrative is. Think Operation Mockingbird. Nope, I don’t know why the courts went along with it.

    I am only providing facts, not theories.
    But I will say that it sure looks like a banana republic to me.

    And before people respond with comments, I hope you don’t show your ignorance and not even go through the links.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      I am privy to a conversation between two Virginia 2020 candidates and that lawyer in which she admitted being a liar. A liar. Once a lawyer admits that, accept nothing. I wouldn’t want to be standing next to her during the lawsuit the voting machine company has filed for damages.

      Sorry you have accepted the lies. This why the Republican Party is basically dead for a while, and our former lower p president is 100% to blame. He started intentionally building this narrative well before Nov. 3 when he saw the way the election would go. He wanted to go to bed claiming a win that night, then claim overnight it was stolen.

      1. idiocracy Avatar

        The Republican Party, at least in Virginia, was a dumpster fire long before Trump.

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      I think you have raised an important point about voting fraud. I would like to add that if voting fraud actually happened or not is really not that important. It is the perception by millions that voting fraud was real. That is the important point. Those who believe will never change that perception and this will shape elections for many years to come.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Oh, yes….When I watched the Giuliani-Powell news conference weeks ago, I knew that either way — true or false — the allegations ripped a huge gap in public confidence. The conspiracy they outlined was so outrageous. Now weeks later most of it has fallen apart or been laughed out of court, but everybody who believed then still does. Deeply. And frankly, that would also concern the Democrats.

    3. LarrytheG Avatar

      Republican election officials themselves said there was no WIDESPREAD election fraud and scores of judges have thrown out such claims because there actually was no evidence or proof… just assertions that it “could” have happened.

      The Republican party itself bears responsibility for this kind of disinformation and misinformation and conspiracy theories that have been promoted by some in the party while others stood by and said nothing and it has spread to folks who really do believe it and have joined militia and actually talk about “hunting” election officials and elected Governors and Congressmen.

      At some point, the GOP needs to openly disavow these folks and get back to being a legitimate party.

      The so-called “dumpster fire” in Virginia is none other than of the condition of the GOP with respect to the very disparate wings of the party.

      As much as some would have us believe – there is no such “wing” in the Dems for Antifa types… there are no Dem/Antifa analogs to Amanda Chase or for that matter Cruz or Hawley or Whittman.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Just as delusional as “delhommer.” Jeez, a Bernie Sanders supporter went to a baseball diamond to try to kill Republicans. AOC and her ilk are bats&%t crazy.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          You’re confusing the acts of a few individuals with movements of people who believe in conspiracy theories and mount attacks with weapons on State Houses, Governors, and Congress.

          There is no comparison and a significant number of GOP have done what Whittman did and lend credence to the conspiracy theories.

          Nothing delusional about the actual facts. For four years, some of the GOP has engaged in disinformation, misinformation, attacking others and the MSM and conspiracy theories while others in the GOP stood by and said nothing…

          The folks running around now – associated themselves with the GOP – like Corey Stewart and Amanda Chase. Find me a Dem in Virginia who is like that on the left.

  23. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
    Eric the Half a Troll

    I wonder how the National Popular Vote calculus will change after redistricting….??

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Well, reAPPORTIONMENT might affect it, as states gain or lose electoral votes.

  24. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
    Eric the Half a Troll

    I wonder how the National Popular Vote calculus will change after redistricting….??

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Well, reAPPORTIONMENT might affect it, as states gain or lose electoral votes.

  25. dalhommer Avatar

    My apologies to Steve Haner for not fully reading and misinterpreting his article. I have not seen any evidence of voter fraud in Virginia that would sway the election. I still have concerns in the swing states.

    I therefore retract my statement and issue a sincere apology.

  26. dalhommer Avatar

    My apologies to Steve Haner for not fully reading and misinterpreting his article. I have not seen any evidence of voter fraud in Virginia that would sway the election. I still have concerns in the swing states.

    I therefore retract my statement and issue a sincere apology.

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