by Matt Hurt

Since the Region VII superintendents initiated the Comprehensive Instructional Program in 2014, we have annually identified our top five most successful teachers of our most at-risk students in each SOL-tested course. In their classes, at least 50 percent of students were economically disadvantaged, and they also had a significant number of students with disabilities. Despite that, their SOL pass rates were very high, even higher than many teachers’ pass rates who had few economically disadvantaged students and no students with disabilities. When asked, all of these teachers have conveyed a common theme: they expected their students to pass the SOL test, and the teacher believed it was his/her job to ensure that happened.

Similarly, we find the theme of high expectations rampant in our most successful schools and divisions in our high poverty areas. For example, Wise County and Norton City were the two divisions that outperformed the relationship between poverty rates and SOL performance in 2022 (as well as several years prior). This relationship accounted for 30 percent of the variation in overall SOL scores among all 132 divisions that year. The poverty rate in these two divisions is greater than approximately 90 percent of other school divisions in the state, and they are also typically the least-well-funded two divisions in Virginia when considering overall per-pupil funding. Despite those challenges, these two divisions outperformed 95 percent of all other divisions in 2022.

Figure 1
2022 Overall Division Pass Rates Compared to Federal Poverty Rates

One of the secrets to success in Wise County and Norton City is that they have very high expectations. The teachers expect their kids to be successful on their SOL tests. If at any time throughout the year a student demonstrates he or she is unlikely to be successful, the teacher provides that student extra instruction outside of class time to fix the problem. The administrators expect their students and teachers will be successful, and they take great pains to ensure that happens. Teachers are empowered to make instructional decisions they believe will help their students be more successful. Teachers and administrators are also held accountable, as student outcomes (such as SOL pass rates) are included in their evaluation goals and account for a very significant part of their summative evaluations.

We have found that expectations vary wildly among classrooms, schools, and divisions. If we were to poll educators across the state and ask what are their expectations (high, moderate, or low), it is extremely likely that the vast majority of respondents would answer “high”. It is very evident that not all educators have the same definition of “high” in this context.

Since expectations are a relatively intangible concept, we decided that we needed to make this more concrete. Through working with teachers and administrators over the years, we came upon the idea of comparing final course grades of our students to their SOL test score that is associated with that course. Generally, a student’s final grade for the course is a measure of how that student performed relative to the teacher’s expectation. Similarly, the student’s SOL score is a measure of the student’s performance relative to the state’s expectations. The initial hypothesis was that the closer final grades aligned to SOL proficiency, the higher the SOL pass rates would be.

We initially tested this hypothesis in 2019 by analyzing the data of 35 public school divisions and followed that with an analysis of data from 43 divisions in 2022. Table 1 illustrates the distributions of final course grades among these 43 divisions in 2022. These data indicate that there was a significant gap between educator expectations and the expectations set forth by the state.

Table 1

Distribution of Final Grades and SOL Proficiencies among 43 School Divisions in 2022

To illustrate the range of distributions, Table 2 displays the distributions of final course grades and SOL proficiencies for the highest and lowest performing divisions in this data set. In the lowest performing division, almost one-fourth of the students who earned an A for the course failed the SOL test associated with that course, compared to less than two percent in the highest performing division. The fact that the final grade of “A” constituted significantly less of the lowest performing division’s data (Table 3) indicates that this problem is likely more significant.

Table 2
Distribution of Final Grades and SOL Proficiencies for the Highest and Lowest Performing Divisions in 2022 Among the 43 School Divisions in this Data Set

Table 3
Distribution of Final Grades for the Highest and Lowest Performing Divisions in 2022 Among the 43 School Divisions in this Data Set

During the initial analysis of the data in 2019, persistent alignment problems were identified, but not to the same degree as we realized in 2022. Table 4 below illustrates how the alignment of expectations significantly shifted negatively from 2019 to 2022. It is extremely likely that a number of issues associated with our educational response to the COVID-9 pandemic caused these statistics to skew negatively.

Table 4
Distribution of Final Grades for the Highest and Lowest Performing Divisions in 2019 and 2022

To conduct the statistical analysis of this data set, the SOL score of each student was matched with the final course grade associated with that SOL test. The alpha values for grades and SOL proficiencies were re-coded to numeric values (see Table 5) very intentionally for two reasons.

Traditional assumptions of the level of performance:
— Grades that represent A’s and high B’s have traditionally been considered advanced grades.
— Any score on the SOL test above 499 is by definition an advanced score.
— C’s have been considered dead average. The average student SOL score among our data set was significantly above 400 (passing).
— The lowest passing grade on the 10 point grading scale is a 60%, and the lowest passing score on the SOL test is a 400.

Grade/SOL proficiency distributions of our most successful teachers of our most at-risk students:
— Their students who earn A’s and B’s for the course either score pass advanced or pass proficient on the SOL test.
— All of the students who earn C’s typically pass their SOL test.
— Sometimes a student who earns a D will pass the SOL test, and sometimes will fail.

Table 5
Conversion of Alpha Values for Grades/SOL Proficiencies to Numeric Values

Once the data were re-coded, we calculated what we termed the “Expectation Index.” To do this, we divide the sum of the SOL proficiency values by the sum of the sum of the grade values at the division, the school, and the teacher level. Theoretically, the closer the Expectation Index value is to one, the more aligned the expectations are to those of the state.

Figure 2 demonstrates the relationship between the division Expectation Index and pass rates in 2022. Among these 43 divisions, the Expectation Index explained 65 percent of the variation in SOL pass rates. If the single outlier division at the bottom of the distribution were removed from that calculation, the Expectation Index would explain 75 percent of the variation among the remaining 42 divisions.

Figure 2
Relationship Between Division Expectation Index and SOL Pass Rates

It is important to note that it is not reasonable to strive for perfect alignment of final course grades and SOL proficiencies. Our teachers are not issued standardized students, nor are our principals issued standardized teachers. There are so many human variables in the mix that one would be driven mad trying to ensure perfect alignment. However, when we exhibit significant numbers of kids who earn A’s, B’s, or C’s who fail their SOL tests, we have a major problem that negatively impacts our students.

It is also important to consider the various factors that go into grading. For example, most teachers do not like conflict and will go to certain ends to avoid it. Parents and administrators do not like to see low grades, and sometimes that may encourage padding grades or creative weighting of grades to avoid potential conflicts.

Policies also impact grading outcomes. Some school boards and a number of administrators have mandated that teachers record no grade below 50 in their grade books.  In divisions on a 10-point grading scale, if 50 is the lowest possible grade, a student doesn’t have to engage at all with the content in order to pass the class. Not only does this policy affect the alignment of grades and SOL proficiencies, it also dis-incentivizes student effort.

Similarly, in many of the Individual Education Plans (IEPs) of students with disabilities, accommodations are written that require students to complete only 50 percent of each assignment. Most teachers require students to do only the amount of work necessary to master the skills they are expected to teach. Therefore, it is unrealistic for a student with a disability to master grade level skills if they’re not expected to do enough work to be successful. If anything, a student with disabilities should be provided additional support and opportunities to engage with the content. In our schools that have mitigated the gaps between their students with disabilities and their non-disabled students, that’s exactly what they do — provide more for those students, not expect less.

The correlations between the Expectation Index and SOL pass rates has been the most significant factor that we have studied. The table below demonstrates a number of factors that we found had a significant effect on the SOL pass rates of public school divisions in 2022. The statistics associated with the Expectation Index come from those 43 divisions that participated in our study, and the other statistics were derived from the data of all 132 public school divisions in Virginia. All of those factors except for the Expectation Index are outside of the control of our educators.

Table 6
Relationships Between Various Factors and Division SOL Pass Rates in 2022

It is extremely encouraging to demonstrate that the efforts of educators matter more with regard to student outcomes than factors educators can’t control!

Matt Hurt is the director of the Comprehensive Instructional Program, a consortium in which teachers and administrators from forty-nine public school divisions in Virginia collaborate to ensure better educational outcomes for their students.


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Comments

73 responses to “Educational Expectations”

  1. Kathleen Smith Avatar
    Kathleen Smith

    Teachers test what they teach. The teacher’s unit test may or may not align with the SOL, but it surely is about what they taught. Honestly, some teachers use the same test on Driving Miss Daisy for years. Nothing ever changes, nor does their planning or teaching the subject of Driving Miss Daisy. Grades reflect the unit test results, not the SOL results. In other words, Driving Miss Daisy may not be mean much on the SOL. This is an excellent way to help teachers understand how to align the SOL and their teaching to expected learning. Brilliant.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Alignment is a two-way street. You may wind up with an abandonment of unit teaching and testing altogether.

  2. James McCarthy Avatar
    James McCarthy

    “it is unrealistic for a student with a disability to master grade level skills if they’re not expected to do enough work to be successful. If anything, a student with disabilities should be provided additional support and opportunities to engage with the content. In our schools that have mitigated the gaps between their students with disabilities and their non-disabled students, that’s exactly what they do — provide more for those students, not expect less.”

    This seems the very definition of equity or equitable measures.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Shhhhh…

    2. LarrytheG Avatar

      yep. It violates the equal protection thing…

      if a kid has dyslexia , it’s his fault and his parents responsibility. We can’ tbe giving him more resources than other kids get.

      1. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        As one commenter alleged several days ago, equity destroys equality. It’s a good thing the term equity is in the text of the Constitution.

    3. Lefty665 Avatar

      Wrong, equity advocates equal outcomes regardless of ability. That is what is so profoundly pernicious with equity replacing equal opportunity.

      This demonstrates equal outcomes because students with disabilities have additional supports and expectations that help them acquire abilities and thus equal outcomes.

      The attempt above to redefine “equity” is, most charitably, disingenuous.

      1. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        That is your opinion. Your second paragraph noting “additional supports” to help equal the playing field is accurate.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar

          There was a recent BR thread on lawyers. Among the comments were some to the effect that lawyers will say anything without regard to truth or facts.

          Your attempt above to contort the meaning of equity illustrates those comments.

          1. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            If the words are not yours, edit the comment.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar

            “The attempt above to redefine “equity” is, most charitably, disingenuous.” and
            “Your attempt above to contort the meaning of equity illustrates those comments.”

            Those are my words and they accurately describe your behavior.

            They also accurately describe a pattern of behavior on BR that both demeans you and reinforces widespread opinion on the lack of integrity of some members of the legal community.

            It is my expectation and hope that you can do better. This is my additional support to help you overcome an occupational disability and achieve equity.

          3. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Good grief!!! Gobbledygook!! There was no attempt to redefine equity, merely offering a an excerpt from the well-reasoned article. Take some time to parse your own comment and interpretation.

          1. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            The definition provided comports with my understanding and the excerpt I quoted. Equity is not defining and identifying equal outcomes – only recognizing inequitable differences and working to surmount them. This article clearly offers a pathway for equity.

  3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    I would be curious as to how school size and student-to-teacher ratios play into the correlations. Great information, btw.

    1. Not Today Avatar

      I am equally curious as to the match or relationship between the student and teacher/administrator demographics. I generally find teachers in urban/suburban areas to be more lenient/accommodating than is warranted. That was not the experience I had (urban) way back when or DH had (southern, rural) but teachers/administrators matched the demos of the school in both instances.

  4. DJRippert Avatar

    How is “poverty rate” calculated for the purposes of this analysis? Does local / regional cost of living factor into the poverty rate calculation?

    10 years ago, the Weldon Cooper Center published a fascinating study relating poverty measures across Virginia to the cost of living in the regions across Virginia. While Southwest Virginia was still the poorest region in the state, it was 23% wealthier than the standard poverty measure indicated. Meanwhile, Northern Virginia (inside the Beltway) was poorer than Richmond.

    https://demographics.coopercenter.org/sites/demographics/files/VirginiaPovertyMeasure_FindingsOverview_May2013_0.pdf

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      I think that’s a pretty relevant point, not only for this but other measures which use national metrics instead of local metrics.

    2. Matt Hurt Avatar

      I used the small area Census Bureau data (kids living below the federal poverty line), but when you use the economically disadvantaged enrollment figures from VDOE it is very similar.

  5. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    Today’s “A” is really yesterday’s “B”. Today’s “B” is really the new “C”. Grade inflation should be factored into this analysis.

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      The author includes such in the article.

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead

        You will find terribly skewed tables for Fairfax, Loudoun, and Prince William.

  6. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Parental expectations are another key factor. My wife’s first two jobs were in two Western VA localities, Franklin and Rockbridge counties, in very rural schools. In Rockbridge, Goshen to be precise, she found a fierce determination among the parents that their students would succeed and not end up working in the local mill. It made her job so much easier.

    1. Not Today Avatar

      That’s not a geographic determinant. Most parents want their kids to succeed. If a teacher defines (A) success with high standards and the student meets that bar, parents are happy. If a teacher defines (A) success with low expectations and students meet that bar, parents are happy. Parents are largely ignorant of the variance between course expectations statewide and nationwide. Parents in ‘good’ districts in Mississippi are largely blind to the fact that their best districts provide the equivalent of pablum in CT.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        parents don’t want their kids to get bad grades…. a powerful thing.

        If Gov Youngkin ever decided to “tighten up” academic standards, there would be a whole lot of grief and anger…. and blame… no teacher wants a dozen parents after her/him over Johnny’s grades.

  7. LarrytheG Avatar

    Thanks again as usual. Stupid me just thought that it was a given that all teachers “teach to the test” which is the SOLs.

    Who knew that they did not?

    I see what Region VII has accomplished and it is significant but the thing that many who are critics of public schools (and pro choice) focus on are the failures we see in the urbanized school districts – the persistent demographic gap – which I suspect is a whole different critter than the subject is this post.

    In other words, can what Region VII has accomplished be implemented in more urbanized schools with large numbers of economically disadvantaged kids in those schools? Is it just as much an “expectations” issue as it has been in Region VII?

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      “Implementation” is not a formula. The effort rests upon human behavior and trainikng.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        Yes. But it is institutionalized or Ad Hoc? Do we operate a system that does not institutionalize it’s processes?

        For instance, do we depend on “leadership” in hospitals or highway construction , etc?

        1. Matt Hurt Avatar

          Yes sir, we certainly do. It’s just that poor leadership in those examples produces more dead bodies and those are more unacceptable.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            So doctors bury their mistakes. Teachers pass them like hot potatoes to the next in line where the SOL explodes in their face.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            Any organization or institution that depends on “leadership” alone to accomplish it’s mission is doomed to fail IMO. Every other person in that organization must also do their job also.

            What that sounds like to me is that if the “wrong” person is leading the school or in the classroom that such “leadership” may be lacking and the result will be kids who get good grades in 2nd grade then fail the SOLs in 3rd grade.

            And this is not a one-off that happens only occasionally. This is endemic across Virginia on many schools in many school districts.

            It’s like the 3rd grade has formal required standards – the SOLs and the 1st and 2nd do not but rather processes that allow a teacher to give an A to a kid that fails his/her SOLs.

            NOT good.

            To Region VII and Mr. Hurt’s credit, they recognize this and are doing something about it.

            But to the schools and districts that are not and instead we talk about “expectations” as if that can be fixed with better “leadership”, I dunno.

            Make an academic standard for 1st and 2nd grade. Don’t make it a high stakes test like the SOLs are, but make it a standard approach to measuring academic progress and hold everyone from Principals to classroom teachers accountable to that standard – make THAT the “expectation”.

          3. Matt Hurt Avatar

            Very true. Of course the only thing we produce by retaining a kid in K-8 is a dropout.

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            It also tells me that what you DON’T want to be is a 3rd grade teacher, or a teacher in any other grade in which the SOL is administered.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar

            Yes. I’ve heard that from my retired teacher friends. Those teachers that stay in those jobs are laser focused on getting as many kids as they can to get to a passing SOL score ( as opposed to getting each kid to the their highest potential score even if it others fail to achieve passing).

            I’d like to see the retention rate for 3rd grade SOL teachers.

          6. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            There is a solution. Hire SOL experts to teach each class on theIR upcoming SOL for 1 hour/day. Starting in 1st grade that would give each kid some 360+ hours in passing the 3rd grade SOL.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar

            Yes. There are a number of solutions way better than the current. I’m just agog that the
            problem continues to the point where the failure is empowering Charter Schools.
            It’s dumb.

          8. Matt Hurt Avatar

            I think a better solution is to have teachers loop with their kids in Kindergarten through 3rd grade. That way, the teacher has control over the preparation of those kids, and they realize where the kids need to be at the end of it. Either that, or develop some really good, reliable, objective assessments for kids in grades K-2.

          9. LarrytheG Avatar

            Yes. GOOD ideas coming from an Education Professional!

            If we could pay MORE for those positions, it would attract more interest from folks motivated to do that work.

          10. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Wouldn’t that looping be accomplished by the proposed 3rd Grade SOL Subject Matter Expert? This would be persons assigned to a cohort for 3 years.

          11. Matt Hurt Avatar

            I’m sure that it varies by school/division. I suspect that in those places that have a better process to monitor kids in grades K-2 and ensure they learn their prerequisites and thus send more kids ready for 3rd grade, I’d say the retention rate is higher.

          12. LarrytheG Avatar

            Matt, when I look at SOL data from build-a-table for school districts like Henrico, there is enormous
            variation in the results between schools. In the same school district there are very high performing schools and terrible performing schools. What the SOL results don’t show if if the kids in the low performing schools were getting “good” grades in 1st and 2nd grade, i.e. the “expectations” thing.

          13. Matt Hurt Avatar

            I would bet the farm that within that division, there is a significant variation in the expectation index between schools. I wish the state would publish this data for every school in the Commonwealth, because this would highlight the most significant factor in educational outcomes.

          14. LarrytheG Avatar

            We agree. But there is a question in my mind of why the same school district with the same top level leadership and with many high performing schools, at the same time, continues to have low performing schools year after year without much improvement. Some of it is clearly a problem with kids that are economically disadvantaged but they still get to the third grade and fail.

          15. Matt Hurt Avatar

            So, my question is why is there such variability in the pass rates of economically disadvantaged students among divisions and schools? From our expedience, it seems that a lot of this is explained by those expectations. Overall, we have lower expectations of economically disadvantaged kids, but some places has higher than others. Those schools and divisions with higher expectations for economically disadvantaged students also have more success with them on the SOL tests.

          16. LarrytheG Avatar

            we might be talking past. I agree and even more specifically to THE point – this variability happens in the SAME school district with one top-of-the-chain administrative leadership that one might think, actually does institute division-wide policies such that all the schools teach 1st/2nd grade the same way using the same processes , vice delegating “expectations” on a school by school basis, (letting the school leadership decide). How does that happen? There are certainly other rules and policies that actually ARE carried out district-wide no matter what… people will get fired if they don’t follow district guidance.

            To me, not having such district-wide policies for 1st and 2nd grade is unconscionable, morally wrong, and worse they’ve giving the choice/charter school advocates all the ammunition they need to damage and dismantle the public school system as we know it.

          17. Matt Hurt Avatar

            How do you measure it at scale? The PALS test doesn’t do this well, and it is so difficult to get reliable data on little ones. I don’t think anyone has nailed down a fool proof means by which to collect this data that is reliable. Therefore, outcomes vary a lot from classroom to classroom. Also this has a lot to do with the philosophy of leadership. What do they think should be accomplished, and what do they think can be accomplished? Even if we could get the data thing squared away, leadership in many places has different expectations for different schools, mostly due to the demographics of the school. When the school meets those expectations (i.e. this school has more kids in x subgroup, so I don’t think they can do as well), then everything is good.

            You will find very few places that have consistent expectations. If you don’t believe me, read their evaluations.

          18. LarrytheG Avatar

            Retired folks tell me there are reliable 1st/2nd grade proxies for the SOLs for reading and math,
            Find one that works and institute it district-wide. If it has flaws, work the issues, improve it but
            keep it institutional. I just see the “We don’t know” as insufficient excuse for not picking a process
            and institutionalizing it. It’s sorta like letting every school decide how they want to do things that are
            currently hard “you do or else” policies.

            We know there ARE some proxies that are reasonable. Institutionalize them and put them on a path to be improved over time.

            It’s unconscionable to continue a process where kids get A’s and B’s in 1st and 2nd grade and
            then fail the SOLs. It harms the institution of public schooling and empowers those that want
            to undermine public schooling. It’s a lose-lose.

            my 2 cents.. in case you wondered! 😉

          19. Matt Hurt Avatar

            I agree. I really wish we had something statewide for comparison purposes. It’s one thing to say that 70% of our kids are proficient, but if the rest of the state is at 85%, then we’re way behind the curve. Those relative statistics are critical in helping to set expectations.

          20. LarrytheG Avatar

            It breaks my heart to see a school where the pass rate is 35% for reading and math.

          21. Matt Hurt Avatar

            Well, if our cut scores are increased to be the highest in the nation, a 35% pass rate might be enviable in that situation.

          22. LarrytheG Avatar

            One of the things we do know is that there ARE some schools that do a decent job with economically disadvantaged kids. Whatever it is that they are doing, is worth understanding and modelling. There are some private schools also but they appear to “cull” those parents are not involved and/or the kid is
            not making it, out he/she goes. Both Success Academies and KIP seem to work that way unlike public schools which cannot boot the low performers or those without committed parents.

          23. LarrytheG Avatar

            but aren’t we also likely producing that dropout even earlier in the 3rd grade if they fail their SOLs and have no effective way to remediate them?

            Do we have a record of being able to effectively remediate those that fail the 3rd grade SOLs as they advance to the next grades?

            If these kids are not remediated, their “drop out” status is really not changed.

            Seems like kids who fail 3rd grade SOLs and are not remediated then can often evolve to become behavior problems. They have no real goals or purpose anymore once they have failed and do not get back on grade level.

            Some people, more and more, want to boot that kid if they cannot “behave” because of the adverse impacts such a kid has on other kids and teachers.

            These kids, if not able to achieve a traditional academic path, need to be on a different, but still productive non-acdemic path that can lead to a decent job in the trades.

            We need to invest in that.

          24. Matt Hurt Avatar

            You are right, they need to be remediated, and some folks do a pretty good job of that. Unfortunately, it falls back to those expectations. Some look at those kids as if they don’t have the potential to be successful, therefore they lose no sleep when they’re not.

          25. LarrytheG Avatar

            Any organization or institution that depends on “leadership” alone to accomplish it’s mission is doomed to fail IMO. Every other person in that organization must also do their job also.

            What that sounds like to me is that if the “wrong” person is leading the school or in the classroom that such “leadership” may be lacking and the result will be kids who get good grades in 2nd grade then fail the SOLs in 3rd grade.

            And this is not a one-off that happens only occasionally. This is endemic across Virginia on many schools in many school districts.

            It’s like the 3rd grade has formal required standards – the SOLs and the 1st and 2nd do not but rather processes that allow a teacher to give an A to a kid that fails his/her SOLs.

            NOT good.

            To Region VII and Mr. Hurt’s credit, they recognize this and are doing something about it.

            But to the schools and districts that are not and instead we talk about “expectations” as if that can be fixed with better “leadership”, I dunno.

            Make an academic standard for 1st and 2nd grade. Don’t make it a high stakes test like the SOLs are, but make it a standard approach to measuring academic progress and hold everyone from Principals to classroom teachers accountable to that standard – make THAT the “expectation”.

          26. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            1st and 2nd standardized? I dunno. Don’t those grades fall on the old Jung abstract reasoning line?

          27. LarrytheG Avatar

            beats me! Retired teacher friends tell me there are “standards” available but typically not
            imposed and used by all teachers.

            Bad grades bring in irate parents. A teacher cannot handle a bunch of them coming in to raise hell so they try to minimize it as much as possible. Too many irate parents that bubble up to the principal and the teacher loses their job. Seen it happen.

        2. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          “It” as the article suggests is a quality not a quantity.

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        As a former teacher once quipped, “Knowledge ain’t what you know, but if you know how to get it.”

        NN’s corollary, “I can’t work! I was trained to think.”

        1. Speaking of thinking, but probably off-topic, if you are looking for a good read I highly recommend Cormac McCarthy’s recently released Passenger. I am only about half-way through right now but it has been astonishingly good so far.

          I think it is better than The Road, for which he won the Pulitzer Prize in literature.

    2. Matt Hurt Avatar

      As it turns out, the Expectation Index explains some of these gaps as well. When we look at the Expectation Index for different subgroups of students in each division, we find the smaller the gaps in expectations among the subgroups, the smaller the gaps in SOL performance. As I get more time I hope to write this up as well.

  8. LarrytheG Avatar

    Rural schools are different from urban and suburban schools. In a rural area , you may have one or two elementary schools over an area that has 10 elementary schools in a more urbanized county. The rural school will often span all demographics with regard to race and income and parental education attainment.

    In suburban/urban school districts, the schools are often aligned more with income and parental education attainment demographics. The neighborhood schools often reflect the demographics.

    So you can have some very high performing schools in higher income demographic neighborhoods with college-educated parents. Just a short distance away you may have a similar sized school that serves a much lower income and education demographic.

    If you look at the SOL scores for a county like Henrico or Loudoun, Fairfax, Chesterfield you’ll see this in spades. Some number of higher performing schools and other schools that are terrible.

    Beyond that, despite those who say we “teach to the test”, in the early grades, we apparently do not and we call this “low expectations” and there is no apparent institutional standard “pre” SOL content, it’s whatever the teacher chooses to teach and grade and we have no idea if she/he did a good job on it til the first SOL tests are given in the later grades, THEN we KNOW but it’s often too late if the school does not have an institutional approach to get these kids back on grade- level.

    1. Matt Hurt Avatar

      Larry, you hit the nail on the head. The only real measurement we have for the little ones is the PALS assessment, and it is not intended to measure achievement, and does a really poor job at that when you try to press it into that service. I have met several elementary principals who extol the virtues of their early elementary reading efforts at their school, the same schools that produce abysmal third grade reading SOL proficiencies. While it is possible to have a “world class” K-2 reading program and a really poor 3rd grade, it is not likely.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        It took a bit for me to understand what you meant by “low expectations” and I confirmed it with
        some retired K 1-3 elementary teachers that are friends. I ask how that can be and they say there
        are some “proxies” but also say the same thing about PALS.

        They also volunteered that some students that come to their rooms from earlier grades can be terrible – even from K, they can be , depending almost entirely on how effective the K teachers are.

        So what Region VII to have been doing is what I call “institutional” , meaning there is a defined standard that is followed and as you pointed out – even in their position descriptions.

        It boggles my mind that school systems across Virginia, outside of Region VII, don’t actually work from a pre-3rd grade standard and we end up with “world class 2nd graders” that then fail 3rd grade SOLs.

  9. Not Today Avatar

    If folks aren’t reading/listening to “The Aftermath”by Phillip Bump, shame on ‘em. The train has already left the station.

  10. Teddy007 Avatar

    I always find it odd that the proponents of setting high standards are the same people who refuse to state what percentage of high school students can master calculus. If setting high standards really matter, then set a standard that every student must make a B or better in AP calculus. The results will obviously be that all the students will master calculus.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Not Calculus but be able to do basic math like being able to compute gas mileage or do a checkbook, etc.

      If they fail the 3rd grade math SOLs , what basic math skills do they not have?

      1. Teddy007 Avatar

        so high standards means doing basic addition and subtraction or maybe doing fractions or percentages. Not very high standards. And still some students will still fail doing fractions no matter what the standards are.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          I don’t know how we’d want to characterize them but basic math, not calculus. Some will still fail no matter what. But when they don’t pass 3rd Grade SOLs they’re headed for real high school level failure if they don’t receive effective remediation – and those kids have lost hope and have little purpose or motivation and become behavior problems. They need something they can accomplish. Everyone needs that. Some folks need high level skills and education. Others do not and find a good life with more basic skills and knowledge and jobs more associated with that – although these days, even those jobs need and require at least 3rd grade level math and reading. Other developed countries seem to manage this need. It’s not like it’s not achievable. We should be able to educate our youth to the same levels that European and Asian schools do their kids. No?

          1. Teddy007 Avatar

            Thank you for agreeing with me. The entire question in education is what should be the minimum competency to be a high school graduate and what percentage of failures is one willing to tolerate. I am willing to tolerate a much higher level of failures so that a high school diploma actually means some level of achievement. The status quo is that students should be allowed to graduate with no level of competence. The arguing that some group has some special way of teaching that will get every student competent when doing fractions (of calculus) is laughable. And if one breaks down achievement by race and economics, the U.S. actually does better than most countries. The mistake is comparing blacks in Richmond, DC, or Baltimore to South Koreans or Finns.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            Not sure about your last sentence. Might need to expound further. On what level of attainment is good or necessary – I look at it in terms of people who can find employment and pay for themselves and their family and pay taxes as opposed to those who can’t and/or need entitlements or worse in prison.

            The more who fail – the bigger the cost.

            but explain the last sentence more.

          3. Teddy007 Avatar

            For the last sentence. When looking an international tests like PISA, Asian-Americans do as well or better than Asians in their native countries. Non-Hispanic whites do as well or better than most European countries. Latinos do better in the U.S. than any South American country. Blacks in the U.S. do better t han the few AFrican countries who participate.

            Does anyone really believe that taking inner city blacks and putting them into public schools in South Korea or Finland would greatly increase the test scores of those black students?

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            did not know that. Is there a link to that data? They don’t educate inner city kids in South Korea , Finland? They don’t educate all kids in those countries?

          5. Teddy007 Avatar

            South Korea does not have the same urban centers that the U.S. does. In reality, South Korea has one of the lowest fertility rate in the U.S. Here is a reference on how different countries do things very differently in the U.S. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Smartest_Kids_in_the_World_(book)

            As an example, gifted children in Finland are the responsibility of the parents while the schools focus on the lowest achievers. South Korea does exactly the opposite and is extremely test driven while not offer many of the classes that a typical American high school would have. The Washington Post had a story one time about how in Japan, everything is determine by what high school admits a student.

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