Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

Earthquake Rocks DC: Obama Blamed

—

by

James A. Bacon
in

A 3.6 scale earthquake rocked the Nation’s Capital Friday morning, leading prominent conservatives to say that Barack Obama’s neo-socialist spending programs are affecting the earth’s tectonic plates.

“The globe just can’t handle the trillions in upcoming debt that it is being weighed down with,” says James A. Bacon, noted aging Baby Boomer.
Another prominent deficit hawk, Groveton, says the link between profligate deficit spending and the earth’s overheated magma cannot be denied. “This is no phony-baloney global warming nonsense coming out of places like the University of Virginia, my alma mater. This is real,” he says.
Virginia Atty. Gen. Kenneth N. Cuccinelli announced that he is launching seven specific CIDs (civil investigative demands) to see if any fraud was involved in placing the epicenter of the earthquake near the Maryland village of Germantown as opposed to one in the Old Dominion.
A Cuccinelli spokesman declined comment. “We don’t comment on ongoing legal cases,” he says.
The Goozer

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47 responses to “Earthquake Rocks DC: Obama Blamed”

  1. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    In fast changing events, Newt Gingrich announced on FOX that an unsavory email communication between the govt earthquake scientists and climate scientists has been "discovered".

    The House Minority leader followed Gingrich and said that it is apparent that blacks and other un-american social misfits in the Obama administration are engaged in nefarious crisis-creating events upon which to further their racist agendas…..

  2. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    "blacks and other un-american social misfits in the Obama administration are engaged in nefarious crisis-creating events upon which to further their racist agendas….."…..You are disgusting, and are a social misfit yourself.

  3. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Very funny!,

    I am on the Acela on my way back from New York. Hope my wrong sized house in the wrong location is still standing.

    Hey Anon 9:50 … LarryG is a card carrying member of the Obama Socialist Party. His comment was meant to be a mocking imitation of what he thought conservatives might say. Save the moral indignation for comments meant to be takes seriously. Like my belief that the words Obama reads from his TelePrompTer are being written as he speaks from the boardrooms of Wall Street.

  4. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Peter, You misquoted me! Actually, I said, "The national debt is getting so heavy that it's buckling the earth's crust." Also, I see that you neglected to mention my prediction, "It's only a matter of time before Washington, D.C. is cast into the fiery pit."

  5. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    We should have a contest for the outside the Beltway readers. Which is the most corrupt city, New York (Wall Street) or Washington (the federal government)? And this is not a partisan comment or a cheap shot against federal employees. I'm talking about the high rollers in the administration (generically-both Democratic and Republican), Congress and the lobbyists.

    Bonus – explain why?

    TMT

  6. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Mr. Gooze:

    This is even funnier:

    http://webmail.aol.com/32213-111/aol-1/en-us/mail/DisplayMessage.aspx?ws_popup=true

    AZA

  7. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    EARLY ECONOMIC SUCCESSES SHOW WHAT CONSERVATIVE LEADERSHIP CAN DO

    When Governor McDonnell and I took office in January, we set two key goals for our first year in office:

    Getting Virginia's economy moving again and creating jobs for Virginia's families, and

    Eliminating the $4.2B budget shortfall we inherited and turning our budget shortfalls into surpluses again.

    This week we delivered on both of those promises.

    Turning Shortfalls Into Surpluses

    On Wednesday, Governor McDonnell announced that Virginia ended the 2010 fiscal year with a $220M budget surplus. That is an amazing accomplishment given the fact that six months ago we were facing a $1.8B budget shortfall in the 2010 fiscal year.

    There are three factors that helped us accomplish this positive result.

    Earlier this year we made the difficult decisions that were necessary to reduce spending and bring our budget into balance without raising taxes.

    We used incentives to encourage state agencies to save money, rather than spend their entire budget in the final months of the fiscal year, and

    We are beginning to see the positive effects of economic growth in Virginia.

    As a result of this surplus, we will be able to invest in some important government programs.

    For example, $18M will be directed to Virginia's public schools; approximately $20M will be dedicated to the Transportation Trust Fund; $22M will go to the water Quality Improvement Fund; and $82M will be used to provide a 3% bonus for state employees, who have not received a pay raise in three years.

    We will appropriate the remaining surpluses later this year in accordance with statutory requirements and final financial calculations.

    Creating Jobs For Virginia's Families

    On Thursday, Governor McDonnell and I gave an update on our efforts to get Virginia's economy moving again and create jobs for Virginia's families. Fortunately, it was more good news.

    Since February 2010, Virginia has added 71,500 net new jobs. This is the third highest jobs creation rate in the nation.

    During the first six months of the administration, Virginia has closed 110 economic development deals, which will eventually create over 7,100 new jobs and more than $1B in capital investment.

    Interestingly, 80% of these new jobs have been created in the private sector, as opposed to the public sector; and the new jobs announcements have been evenly distributed across our state, with significant economic development occurring in rural parts of Virginia, where it is really needed.

    These positive results show that we are on the right track. We are working hard and we are making smart decisions that will better position Virginia to take advantage of a future economic resurgence.

    Despite these positive results, we still have a lot of work to do to lead Virginia to a period of greater economic prosperity.We will not stop until we return our unemployment rates to historic levels and every Virginian has the opportunity to access to a good paying job.

    Likewise, we will keep our focus on controlling government spending and making certain that our budgets are balanced.

    These results show what conservative leadership can do and how government can work for the people when it adheres to sound principles. Wouldn't it be great if we could get our friends in Washington to take a page from the Virginia playbook?

    Authorized and paid for by Friends of Bill Bolling

  8. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    EARLY ECONOMIC SUCCESSES SHOW WHAT CONSERVATIVE LEADERSHIP CAN DO

    When Governor McDonnell and I took office in January, we set two key goals for our first year in office:

    Getting Virginia's economy moving again and creating jobs for Virginia's families, and

    Eliminating the $4.2B budget shortfall we inherited and turning our budget shortfalls into surpluses again.

    This week we delivered on both of those promises.

    Turning Shortfalls Into Surpluses

    On Wednesday, Governor McDonnell announced that Virginia ended the 2010 fiscal year with a $220M budget surplus. That is an amazing accomplishment given the fact that six months ago we were facing a $1.8B budget shortfall in the 2010 fiscal year.

    There are three factors that helped us accomplish this positive result.

    Earlier this year we made the difficult decisions that were necessary to reduce spending and bring our budget into balance without raising taxes.

    We used incentives to encourage state agencies to save money, rather than spend their entire budget in the final months of the fiscal year, and

    We are beginning to see the positive effects of economic growth in Virginia.

    As a result of this surplus, we will be able to invest in some important government programs.

    For example, $18M will be directed to Virginia's public schools; approximately $20M will be dedicated to the Transportation Trust Fund; $22M will go to the water Quality Improvement Fund; and $82M will be used to provide a 3% bonus for state employees, who have not received a pay raise in three years.

    We will appropriate the remaining surpluses later this year in accordance with statutory requirements and final financial calculations.

    Creating Jobs For Virginia's Families

    On Thursday, Governor McDonnell and I gave an update on our efforts to get Virginia's economy moving again and create jobs for Virginia's families. Fortunately, it was more good news.

    Since February 2010, Virginia has added 71,500 net new jobs. This is the third highest jobs creation rate in the nation.

    During the first six months of the administration, Virginia has closed 110 economic development deals, which will eventually create over 7,100 new jobs and more than $1B in capital investment.

    Interestingly, 80% of these new jobs have been created in the private sector, as opposed to the public sector; and the new jobs announcements have been evenly distributed across our state, with significant economic development occurring in rural parts of Virginia, where it is really needed.

    These positive results show that we are on the right track. We are working hard and we are making smart decisions that will better position Virginia to take advantage of a future economic resurgence.

    Despite these positive results, we still have a lot of work to do to lead Virginia to a period of greater economic prosperity.We will not stop until we return our unemployment rates to historic levels and every Virginian has the opportunity to access to a good paying job.

    Likewise, we will keep our focus on controlling government spending and making certain that our budgets are balanced.

    These results show what conservative leadership can do and how government can work for the people when it adheres to sound principles. Wouldn't it be great if we could get our friends in Washington to take a page from the Virginia playbook?

    Authorized and paid for by Friends of Bill Bolling

  9. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    TMT – money in politics ….is all corrupting….

    No matter how committed a politician is to doing what he/she thinks is right – sooner or later they have to run again for election and without equivalent money – they are gone.

    In Virginia, if you want to really feel queasy – go to VPAP and read about your own Richmond representatives and how much money they receive from corporates.

  10. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Let's delete the repeat posts. Sometimes we accidentally post more than once, but this looks deliberate.

    TMT

  11. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    beyond the fact, that it is political puffery.

  12. Gooze Views Avatar
    Gooze Views

    Bacon,

    I hope you are not turning into a politican. They are always trying to clean up their quotes after the fact.

    Peter Galuszka

  13. Mimi Stratton Avatar
    Mimi Stratton

    I bet it was a beautiful earthquake-free sunny day when they used reconciliation to pass the Bush Tax Cuts.

  14. Accurate Avatar
    Accurate

    Sorry, the 'humor' was lost on me. Appears to be a very poor attempt to sling stones at those who disagree with Obama, the democrats and their policies. Yes, I realize that it's suppose to be humor, and maybe to some it came off that way. To me it was just plain poorly done, the kind of talk that goes on when you are with friends who think like you do and your having a beer and playing pool. Not the usual quality of postings that I'm use to seeing on this blog.

  15. Gooze Views Avatar
    Gooze Views

    Accurate,
    Well: "Tut,tut!" and "Harrumph!"

    The goozert

  16. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    I think for some time now – that virtually every event that is even remotely connected to the White House is immediately latched onto by the right-wing propaganda machine and spun into yet another "bad thing" that is attributable to this President.

    And I'm no staunch supporter of him and would have voted for Romney had that been the choice.

    But it's pretty clear that the right's strategy these days is to do as much harm as they can in hope of fooling enough of the clueless middle with right-wing sound-bite narratives.

    And.. it's working.

    It's a very effective strategy.

    3/4 of the independents believe half the garbage that is being thrown…

    like.. the President "promised" the stimulus would keep unemployment under 10%..

    now you tell me that ANY President could – on the front end of an economic crisis – predict with that level of accuracy and granularity what his stimulus could accomplish.

    and yet.. it's repeated over and over as "proof" that the stimulus has "failed", thus the whole idea of "stimulus" is wrong.

    Forget the fact that we have in reality a 15% unemployment rate ..that without a stimulus – virtually all the economists do agree – even those opposed to stimulus that we would have in excess of 20% unemployment…

    the focus from the right to convince the clueless middle is that the President "promise" a sub 10% unemployment rate and he either "lied" or "failed".

    and this is what passes for political discourse these days.

    it's all about what the people in the middle will find "plausible" and as I said – the right is very very good at it…

    and if there was any way possible to pin the earthquake on Obama or Climate Scientists or Eric Holder or Geitner or Nancy Pelosi..it would have been done.

  17. Gooze Views Avatar
    Gooze Views

    In all seriousness, I have to agree with Karry G.
    I am constantly amazed at how the RWPM (Right Wing Propaganda Machine) has demonized Obama dn blamed him for (all of a sudden) deficits and debt.
    Where were they during the last 10 years or so when George "W" was getting us into two wars, including one for bogus Weapons of Mass Destruction, while chucking the bill. By some estimates, these will cost $3 trillion. And "W" was sucking up to the rich with tax cuts that favored them exclusively.
    And his lack of regulatory acumen led to the CDOs, CDSs , hedge funds and foolish loans to assets lending ratios that gave the financial service sector a few big go-go years and the worst crisis since the Great Depression.
    It is as if someone has suddenly switched of the country's collective memory.

  18. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Peter,

    Your criticism of Bush's spending is well taken. But Obama has spent much, much more than Bush and produced virtually nothing, except saving public sector union jobs. There were no "promises" of saving jobs with the Stimulus, but Christina Romer certainly predicted unemployment would be below 8% with it. She missed her prediction by a long shot. But I guess she's still part of the President's team.

    More people oppose the Health Care Reform package than support it. Few people believe the Stimulus helped them. I guess these people are all stupid fools from fly-over land. They need to be sent to re-education camp to appreciate all that this Administration has done for them.

    As far as tax cuts are concerned, IRS statistics show that the wealthiest people (which doesn't include me) are paying a higher percentage of the total federal tax bill after the tax cuts took effect than they were before. Sounds progressive to me. But too many people live in a "Fred Hiatt" world where having higher rates in effect is more important than getting high earners to pay more taxes.

    The problem with this country is not that we don't tax enough, but that we spend way too much. A budget should require a super-majority to pass. The conservatives could stop the liberal favorites and the liberals could stop the conservative favorites. The dirty lobbyists would lose and the people in fly-over land would win.

    Every time this country has raised taxes with the promise of spending cuts, we've seen only the tax increases and never the cuts. Let's get US DOT out of all non-interstate and international transportation. Let's require a 2/3 majority to include any earmark in the budget. Let's stop corporate welfare. Let's start looking at Rep. Paul Ryan's proposals for entitlement reform. There are likely other good proposals on both sides of the aisle. And let's raise the tax on capital gains for assets held less than 6 months. Get the traders out of business.

    The bottom line is that Obama is in charge and growing numbers of Americans think he is doing a poor job.

    TMT

  19. Gooze Views Avatar
    Gooze Views

    TMT,
    I agree that the numbers for Obama are bad.
    I still can't kow what to make of health care.I deal with a family situation in which I have to make decisions under the old system.
    Everytime they recommend some new therapy or whatever for an elderly person, I have to ask what it is and insistent on knowing. Then I ask what it costs (no one ever knows) and then I have to wait until someone in acounting gets back to me. At first they say, "We don't know what it costs becaue we don't know what insurance you have." Then I say, "surely you will be billing Medicaire or a secondary carrier some number and I would like a ballpark estimate of what that is."
    My point is that all the critics of Obamacare moan about it being socialistic. Hot flash. The current version is a kind of public-private form of socialism or price oligarchy or whatever.
    They may be Health and Human Services or Anthem, or Anthem or Hospital Corporations of America. Result: the same.
    It is a farce to call for "free market-based solutions" when you can't even find out how much a procedure costs. When you ask you are treated like an insulting pest. Is Obamacare going to be better?

    PG

  20. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    About the only thing that Obama has actually done – right now – to increase the deficit – is the stimulus.

    He has not increased taxes despite the right wing's insistence that he has done so – it's a lie.

    The bill for HC has not come in yet and the right wing is sure that is will be terrible .. but it's future debt even then but they include it in the current deficit even though it's in the PROJECTED deficit .. AND NOT YET CERTAIN as it's affect.

    The rest of the CURRENT deficit is due to the downturn in revenues to the govt not this administration and yet he is given the blame for NOT turning the economy around when he "promised" that he would.

    What kind of CLAPTRAP is that?

    No one who has half a brain should ever ASSUME that ANY economist of any flavor is clairvoyant unless one is using it as a partisan weapon to start with.

    I certainly don't blame BUSH for his economic advisors failed predictions.

    But I do blame him for not even attempting to address clear and present economic dangers that were obvious in his 8 years even to the point where some in his administration were saving that deficits don't matter.

    And I'll remind folks here – that nary a complaint was heard from the folks who now blame this President for the deficit – not a word from these folks back when it was said deficits don't matter.

    Why the double standard?

    There is serious but principled disagreement about the advisability of a stimulus even among unaffiliated economists with no partisan axes to grind.

    But to claim that the stimulus "proves" that Obama has irresponsibly "harmed" the economy far more than Bush ever did….

    how honest is that?

    is it anywhere near the truth?

  21. Mimi Stratton Avatar
    Mimi Stratton

    I'll stick with an administration who saved us from the brink of economic collapse and a Great Depression, even if that means we are still at 9.5% unemployment. I'll stand with those who had the guts to pass Healthcare Reform. I'll stick with an administration that passed Wall Street reform, set new emissions standards, protected two million acres of national forest, helped unemployed Americans to afford COBRA health insurance, passed historic hate crimes legislation, and passed the largest middle class tax cut in American history. All of this despite a record number of Republican filibusters, and whose new entire fiscal program seems to be one Orwellian sentence: Tax cuts good, spending bad.

  22. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Larry, I came to Washington in 1984, thinking the federal government spent too much money. I still think that. My views have not changed irrespective of which political party controlled the White House or Congress.

    I don't think all regulation is terrible. I do think that markets make better economic decisions than government agencies, but markets need to be open, transparent and fair. Regulations must be measured by their effectiveness and decisions should be made on facts whenever possible. Agencies need reasonable flexibility, but must stay within the scope of their enabling statutes.

    Any person, organization or entity has the right to contact government. But I don't think this right includes the right to do so in secrecy. We need more transparency in government. Lobbyists should be forced to put their contacts in writing and have them posted to the Internet.

    I don't think businesses should be subsidized by taxpayers. I think there are just as many crooks in the nonprofit and academic world as their are on Wall Street.

    Hillary Clinton would have been a better choice than Obama in 2008, and McCain would have been a better choice than Bush in 2000. Obama strikes me as having the same weird combination of high intelligence and general managerial incompetence as Jimmy Carter, coupled with the ethics of Richard Nixon.

    I guess I don't fit in your RWPM (Right Wing Propaganda Machine) mold, even though I think Obama's performance is terrible.

    TMT

  23. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    Actually TMT – with your views towards campaign money and attitudes about business and regulation.. you'd probably be drummed out of the traditional Republican party and, in theory welcomed by those with a TEa party orientation.

    But the RWPM – is folks who hew towards Limbaugh and Hannity and the hundreds of blog sites that pretty much exist only to make hay of whatever the latest is with this President no matter whether it is that he did not Vacation in the Gulf or he flys airplanes and rides LIMOs too much or secretly "smokes".

    The man has "exploded" the deficit by … not "dreaming" up the stimulus – but adopting it as one of several policy recommendations by economists both inside of and outside his administration.

    He "caused" the Gulf Oil Spill by NOT replacing the previous administrations selected industry lackeys at the MMS.

    In other words, the spill is his fault for not quickly fixing the agency that was corrupted by the prior administration.

    and on and on….

    I don't know how these folks keep a straight face when they do this to be honest

    But the real heck of it is there is a sizable cadre of what I call "folks in the middle" who buy it – hook, line and sinker.

    We've gone from the "negative" campaign literature and media at election time – to a daily, constant drumbeat designed to chip away the folks who are in the middle because many of them are your basic sound-bite type folks.

    You know.. the ones who .. can't tell you who their elected reps are from BOS, to STATE to Federal… but they know who Obama is and they know who the "anti" Obama candidates are even if they have no clue about anything else about them.

    Our Congress..if things go like they appear to be going is going to end up like these Congresses in 3rd world countries where they throw chairs and shout epitaphs.

    The "you LIE" was just the beginning.

    The country has grown course and ugly.

    It's not about compromise.

    "You either do what we want or we are going to raise holy hell about it"

    The only problem is that each one has their own "wants".

  24. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    I'm trying to think – what Obama … SHOULD have done instead.

    Let's be reasonable.

    Let's not be saying that he should of done what Bush and Clinton were not capable of doing.

    Pick some things that would be within the realm of possible.. like what would someone like McCain done instead?

    no health care reform – right?

    no stimulus – right?

    what else?

    let's lay out what Obama SHOULD HAVE DONE.

  25. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Obama should not have let the left wing of his party write the Stimulus bill. He should have proposed and fought for a much smaller bill that was targeted at infrastructure projects that could be shovel ready. He should not have sent money to state and localities to keep their payrolls intact.

    He could have supported HCR that allowed any individual to purchase a policy in any other state; offered more ability for people to join insurance pools, without subsidies; he should have obtained malpractice reform; he could prohibited pools from denying people with preexisting conditions; he could have pressed his electronic medical record program; and a few other things that don't come right to mind.

    He should have included Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in his financial reforms.

    Had he done this instead of keep the crazy wing of his party (both parties have crazy wings) happy, I suspect his poll numbers would be pretty good and that he have some bipartisan support for his programs.

    TMT

  26. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    Fair criticisms… not sure if they would have satisfied the RWPM though.

    When Limbaugh and Hannity are calling this Prez a racist and marxist even before he is elected… it kinda tips their hand.

    but then Obama and his crowd got arrogant and grossly underestimated the strident and uncompromising views of the RWPM and their ability to influence independents.

    I note that the latest polls show this:

    3. How much confidence do you have in [ITEM] to make the right decisions for the country's future – a great deal of confidence, a good amount, just some or none at all?

    The Republicans in Congress

    7/11/10 great deal = 26
    some/none = 73

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_07132010.html

    Now when one considers that the Republican base is in the 20's and the liberal base not higher, then it appears that more that most of the independents have no faith in the Republicans either.

    Not sure how that translates into them winning the House and Senate but does not look like a sure thing..just yet.

  27. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Larry, Obama's problems with independents are of his own doing. Just as Bush lost them with the endless Iraq war, Obama lost them with aggressive moves left. For every person like Mimi who likes Obama's policies, there are more who are scared or angered by them.

    Just like with Bush, there are opposing partisans who are stirring the pot. But isn't that the political system?

    What if Obama announced a secure the borders first immigration program; pushed Congress for a mandatory e-verify program; pushed to bar repeat violators from federal contracts and loans; urged local governments to work with ICE, etc., with a goal of examining immigration policies after the border was secure?

    He's still more popular than his programs. He's the opposite of Bill Clinton. Many people disliked Clinton personally, but liked some of his programs and positions.

    Obama has no one to blame but himself for this problems with voters.

    TMT

  28. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    " What if Obama announced a secure the borders first immigration program; pushed Congress for a mandatory e-verify program; pushed to bar repeat violators from federal contracts and loans; urged local governments to work with ICE, etc., with a goal of examining immigration policies after the border was secure? "

    You want a Democrat to do what the Republicans would not?

    And this is Obama's fault?

    Blaming Obama for not doing something that Bush should have done… is bad enough but then thinking putting the same guys back in Congress will then make it happen is… well.. it's funny.

    I guess there is an expectation that the tea party folks will take enough seats …that combined with the Republicans – would give the Republicans effective control (not the Tea Party folks)… and somehow once that happens the Tea Party folks are going to submit legislation to do the Immigration deal.. and Republicans will not only go along with it but have enough votes to override the Prez?

    Is that a plausible scenario?

    I agree that Obama has not helped his own cause but how realistic is it to expect him to do what the Republicans themselves did not do when they had both houses and the Presidency?

    It's almost as if we expect Obama to act like a REpublican – or else.

  29. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Larry,

    I think your argument misses an important point — the dynamic nature of the country — and rather assumes a certain static factor that, IMO, is not there.

    On the surface, your argument — hey, Bush did not do it, why should Obama? — seems logical and fair. But the United States has changed radically since Bush was president. We are in the midst of a persistent and severe recession. I think many Americans were more tolerant of the status quo several years ago than they are now. In other words, Obama doesn't have the same flexibility that Bush had. FDR did not have the same flexibility that Coolidge had either (my tribute to Peter).

    But at the same time, coming from the left, Obama has more ability to move right than someone starting from the center or the right. Witness Richard Nixon going to China. Neither LBJ nor Carter could have done that — or at least not as easily. But I suspect Obama will not do this, and it will cost him politically.

    Here is another item that will hurt Obama. From the New York Times. Insurance companies are pushing plans that, in exchange for lower premiums, the insured have a smaller choice of providers. "They told me that I needed to change my doctor."

    This is probably reasonable public policy, but quite inconsistent to the story from the White House. "The tradeoff, they say, is that more Americans will be asked to pay higher prices for the privilege of choosing or keeping their own doctors if they are outside the new networks. That could come as a surprise to many who remember the repeated assurances from President Obama and other officials that consumers would retain a variety of health-care choices." http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/business/18choice.html

    And, yes, the right and all other political opponents will hammer Obama on this issue over and over and over again. But he brought it on himself. He could have told the American people that HCR will me sacrifices from those who have insurance so that more people can be covered. But he didn't, and he will pay more for this.

    But as my teenage daughter, who sees herself as liberal, said, "Obama is all show and no substance." I agree with her on that one.

    TMT

  30. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    "You want a Democrat to do what the Republicans would not?

    And this is Obama's fault?

    Blaming Obama for not doing something that Bush should have done… is bad enough but then thinking putting the same guys back in Congress will then make it happen is… well.. it's funny.".

    How many years do the worthless Democrats have to be in office with majorities in both houses and the presidency before they do something constructive with immigration?

    As the rejected Deomcrats are giving their concession speeches on the afternoon / evening of November 2 I can only imagine them somehow trying to blame Bush while developing complete amnesia about the last 2 years.

  31. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    TMT – you have some well reasoned points, I don't disagree.

    I also think Obama could move further to the right on immigration but can the right move further left and accept compromises?

    What I'm viewing right now is that the right intends to have their way come 2010/2012 and while I guess it's possible it looks to be a much harder all-or-nothing slough than a more feasible meet-in-the-middle compromise.

    I just do not see a "ship-them-all-home" successful national candidate… but you may be right and perhaps the country as a whole is fed up.

    The "change your doctor" scenario is ALSO playing out on those on Medicare who also have "gap" company retirement programs by the way – doctor switching using files full of paper – not electronic records.

    Where's the Republican bill that says electronic records?

    Of that's right – the Republicans oppose things that infringe on the "rights" of businesses to make profits by shuffling paper instead of reducing costs to patients.

    There was never going to be a demonstrable "win-win" with HC reform nor any way to fully predict the various ways it will play out because the system has become so convoluted and tangled that it's as bad as the IRS Code.

    Obama tried a new completely approach to UHC for all and the opposition to it was fierce ( a preview of any attempts to institute a FAIR TAX).

    The "haves" made it crystal clear that any changes that affected them was…. unacceptable.

    No politician is going to escape the wrath of these folks because what they want is status quo – even though it's not a choice any more.

    This is why the Republicans hav not touched the issue and I don't think they ever will.

    The Republicans basically have no solutions to the hard issues.

    Their goal is to maintain the system that benefits their base both monied and red meat.

    Republican "reforms" is an oxymoron.

    At some point we won't have Obama to kick around anymore … and at that point – we are going to have a POGO (we have met the enemy) moment.

  32. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    "How many years do the worthless Democrats have to be in office with majorities in both houses and the presidency before they do something constructive with immigration?"

    as many as the Republicans had?

    oh.. and one other little problem…

    you expect the Democrats who have a wholly different philosophy with respect to illegal immigration to implement the Republican philosophy?

    ha ha ha..

    so you want the Dems to do in 2 years what the Republicans refused to do in 8+ years?

    Was there EVER a REAL Republican effort anyhow?

    For instance, there are FAR MORE border guards now than there EVER WAS under Republicans because, in part, the Republicans had this problem figuring out how to actually pay for it and they'd already developed a "reputation" for funding wars and entitlements from loans from China rather than actually collecting taxes to pay for them.

    The Republicans are totally inept and corrupt when it comes to REAL Solutions that are actually paid for ….

    They pretty much proved what they are about (all talk and no walk) during the Bush years.

    Their solution to everything is "tax cuts" … even if they don't work and drive the country into an economic ditch.

    You see in their world ..it has to be true because it's in the Republican Economic Guide book and if reality intrudes.. it's the other guys fault.

    I can't believe that Groveton has signed up with such a bunch of ZEROS and losers.

    The Tea Party folks have a right to be mad – but not at the Dems – at the folks on the right – masquerading as Republicans.

  33. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Larry, I think where your argument goes off the track is that, IMO, you assume a static environment. Bush did not do, therefore, Obama is excused. In one sense, it is true.

    But, in the real world of politics, Obama's world is vastly different from Bush's. Most people perceived the economy as good or at least acceptable when Bush was president. When times are good, people tend to be more tolerant of illegal immigration, I think, than when times are bad. The unemployment and the under-employment rates are very high. Many people (citizens and legal residents) are hurting financially and are afraid of the future. Illegal immigration creates more fear.

    State and local governments are stressed financially as well. With the probable exception of single males, illegal immigrants and their legal children put a big strain on state and local government finances. For example, Fairfax County argues that most residents consume more in services than they generate in local taxes. Then add in the higher needs of poor and non-English-speaking children. Illegal immigration strains the social safety net and makes people here legally more fearful and resentful.

    On illegal immigration, the middle has moved, but Obama is still where he and others, including some Republicans, were several years ago. He can stay where he is and satisfy the desires of many of his supporters, but must understand that such a position is now largely outside the mainstream. Factors outside the realm of political rhetoric have moved the nation right on illegal immigration. Staying put will hurt Obama and where Bush was or what Bush did or did not do is, IMO, totally irrelevant at this time.

    His choices are: 1) to move right to the secure the border first position, which will cost him with his base, but improve his position overall; or 2) push for comprehensive reform (a/k/a/ amnesty), which will protect his position with his base, but continue to lower support overall. Talking about George Bush is immaterial at this stage of the game.

    TMT

  34. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    TMT – it's not about Bush as much as it is about the Republicans in Congress on his watch – what they did, what they did not do and how many of them are still around – the same players and what their overall agenda would be even after a few new ones are elected.

    The Republicans did not need to wait for Bush to do something.

    but there was no backbone on the part of the vast majority of Republicans to do anything about immigration and health care anyhow.

    And the presumed "solution" to Obama's failure is to do what?

    Turn the dial back to the same basic Republicans who accomplished nothing in their previous outing?

    don't forget, it's not that they tried and failed or that they made a partial run and it for the next Congress to pick up and move forward.

    They made ZERO progress on ANY OF IT.

    so what expectations do we have with the Republicans back in control?

    do you really think they are going to do much different than before?

    I don't.

    I think none of the easy answers were left when Obama came in and all of them are guaranteed political losers no matter which path is chosen.

    In the "what should have Obama done" thinking.. were not those same options available to the Republicans and probably easier to implement even… partially than now?

    The problems we have now are not going to be resolved by Republicans.

    they're going to do what they always have done in recent years – fire and brimstone and flurry the air with rhetoric – and at the end of the day – precious little …. if anything.

    Name the Top 3 achievements of the REpublicans in the prior 8 years….that helped the deficit, health care and immigration problems.

    what were they?

    If you can't name any, what makes you think the same group is now ready to do something?

  35. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Now, I think you are on to something. It is a very legitimate question to ask challengers from both parties, what do you plan to do if you were to be elected? Health Care Reform; Fannie & Freddie, Immigration; taxes; spending; etc.

    For example, I would tend to vote for a candidate who pledged to work to repeal HCR and would not likely consider voting for someone who supported the law as passed. I'd tend to vote for someone who wanted to reign in federal spending, including on DoD. I'd like to see more restrictions on lobbyists — more disclosure required.

    TMT

  36. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    Here's the issue:

    " Moreover, as debt and deficits grow, so will the associated interest payments, an obligation that in turn further increases projected deficits.

    …

    Unfortunately, we cannot grow our way out of this problem. No credible forecast suggests that future rates of growth of the U.S. economy will be sufficient to close these deficits without significant changes to our fiscal policies."

    Statement from the Obama Debt Commission headed by Bowles and Simpson.

    there is no conceivable economic growth scenario that can catch up to the current deficit – in decades.

    The only option is to cut benefits and raise taxes – for entitlements which comprise most of the debt along with interest payments.

    forget the blather about cutting "big" govt.. it's a gnat compared to entitlements ….

    This means.. even if tax cuts actually did work that we cannot grow out way out of this.

    Question: Do you think Obama will attempt to implement the recommendations of the debt commission?

    and if he does – will the Republicans substantially agree and offer friendly amendments or do you think the Republicans will continue to insist that tax cuts will grow us out of the deficit?

    Bonus Question: Do you think those who say they support the Tea Party will agree with the debt commission recommendations (which will say cut SS/Medicare benefits, increase taxes) or do you think they'll side with the Republicans who insist tax cuts are the way to grow out of the entitlement deficits?

  37. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    p.s. – I have no problem with the cuts and tax increases even though they will likely affect me in a negative way

    …. because… it's as obvious as as a tick on one's butt that – that will be the only viable answer to the deficits…

    … and more than that … it's going to happen as we really have no choice unless we're going to end up like Greece.

    … note that Greece …at the end of the day …. had to cut benefits anyhow – the only difference is how close they came to default…

    .. something similar will happen here…

    .. either we take the actions that are necessary – not only to keep us from default – but to keep us from losing our preeminent place in the world…

    or we politically gridlock the country to pre-ordain a Greece-like outcome.

  38. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    The big problem that I see is that tax increases stick, but spending cuts don't. I would oppose tax increases now because the cuts simply won't happen and I cannot see giving the appropriators more money to waste.

    I agree that entitlements need to be included. But as I wrote earlier, why then is Obama proposing to increase the numbers of people eligible for entitlements significantly through his version of immigration reform?

    We need a super-majority for all congressional budgets. We need to increase the retirement age slowly year-after-year. We need all state and local governments to adopt defined contribution retirement plans. We need to look at whether we are over-compensating for increases in the cost of living. We need to give younger citizens a chance to save some of their SS outside Uncle Sam's account. We need to determine from a purely actuarial standpoint how much money it will take to keep the system solvent and look at options including tax increases and more benefit cuts.

    But until I see spending cuts that cost lobbyists their jobs, I'll oppose any tax increases because I don't trust the federal government. And I'm not alone.

    TMT

  39. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    re: tax increases

    again.. it's a bit of a misnomer.

    It's not tax increases or more government but payroll tax increases to go into Medicare and SS – at the same time we are going to cut the benefits to them.

    It's either that or truly draconian cuts to Medicare and SS.

    as far as immigration… would they not actually ADD ALSO to the payroll taxes for Medicare and SS if they became "legitimate"?

    Unless I'm wrong – regular non Medicare/Medicaid an SS are not a significant budget or deficit issue.

    It's pretty much these:

    Medicare/Medicaid
    Social Security
    Interest on the debt
    Military spending

    everything else is basically "noise" – right?

    When the Republicans say we must CUT spending.. what are they talking about?

    are they talking about cutting Medicare/SS or are they talking about other Govt spending?

  40. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    His choices are: 1) to move right to the secure the border first position, which will cost him with his base, but improve his position overall

    =================================

    There is zero evidence that the billions spent on securing the border have helped in the least. for one thing, many illegals here are people who came legally and then overstayed their visa.

    If Obama moves right to secure the border and that doesn;t work, as it probably won't, then this move will cost him his base and he will gain nothing from those who oppose or minimize whatever he does.

    The simple fact is that immigration is driven more be economics than it is prevented by enforcement.

    RH

  41. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    How many billions do illegal immigrants cost us and how many billions will it take to keep them out?

    If you spend 10 billion a year educating and legalizing new citizens what is the ROI?

    If you spend 10 billion a year on border enforcement to keep those new citizens in poverty at home, then what is your ROI?

    RH

  42. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    " There is zero evidence that the billions spent on securing the border have helped in the least. for one thing, many illegals here are people who came legally and then overstayed their visa."

    exactly.

    almost 50% of "illegals" did not come across the Mexican border but trying telling that to the folks who insist otherwise.

    and part of the reason why is that these folks are not talking about "ALL" illegals – but instead ONLY the ones coming across the Mexican border.

    and the funny thing is that some of them mention the "risk" of terrorists and drug runners coming across the border as a justification for the fence.

    Never let the facts actually interfere with their beliefs.

    Virtually ALL of the terrorists that came into this country – came on VISAs not "illegal" border crossings.

    and the realities of drug running including finding an using whatever paths can be found .. including submarines and drones… involving not only land borders but our 9000 miles of coastline.

    If there is demand for drugs in Arizona and region – shutting the border down will not stop the influx of drugs.

    but never let common sense get in the way of what people want to believe.. gawd forbid.

  43. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    It must be nice to sit in places like Fredricksburg or Chesterfield County and complain about those racist Arizonans with their stupid ideas about enforcing the law and defending the border.

    Let's see … 70% of the people in Arizona support the new law. Yet, only 59.6% of the population is white, non-latino. And you know there are some nice, liberal white, non-latinos who oppose the law. Wow! There muct be some non-whites or latinos who support the law.

    Meanwhile, Obama's approval ratings just keep dropping in Arizona. Only 28% of the people of Arizona think Obama is doing a good or excellent job. That number was 51% three months after he was elected.

    Hell, only 52% of Democrats think he's doing a good or excellent job. That number was 85% in April, 2009.

    Arizona also has an estimated 7.9% of its population living illegally in the state – the second highest percentage in the nation.

    So … let's review –

    The vast majority of people from Arizona support the new law. Many of those supporters must be non-white or latinos. Obama was quite polular in the state but has seen his approval ratings fall off the cliff. Again, it is almost a statistical impossibility to blame all of that drop on white, non-latinos.

    Have any of you "arm chair quarterbacks" living in places with small percentages of illegal aliens ever considered the possibility that you don't what the hell you're talking about?

    Maybe, just maybe, the people of Arizona aren't racist. Maybe they are suffering with the problems associated with a large number of people who are illegally hired, not paying taxes and consuming social services.

  44. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    May need to include in the review – what this is going to get you in the future?

    Are Latinos going to flock to Republican candidates who espouse the Arizona "solution"?

    I see a Republican Party with minuscule support from Blacks and Hispanics and those other constituencies that they seem to also love to hate.

    and the future demographics look even more dismal for Republicans.

    wedge politics… Arizona style.

    If Arizona was serious – they go after the employers and dry up the jobs just as the Feds are doing right now ( and similar to how Canada does it).

  45. Gooze Views Avatar
    Gooze Views

    "Have any of you "arm chair quarterbacks" living in places with small percentages of illegal aliens ever considered the possibility that you don't what the hell you're talking about?"

    Wow, Groveton, that is over the top.

    I am a reasident of CHesterfield County (one target of your tirade) and I know just the hell about as much as you do about immigration.

    Also, you may want to consider retaking some basic civic courses. Our Constitution and legal system are designed to defend THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES. It is irrelevant what a majority of Arizonas or Fairfax COuntians or whoever thinks when it comes to defending rights.

    Where would you take us, Groveton? Nazi Germany? Many average Germans backed the anti-Jewish laws there?
    How about you, Groveton?

    Peter Galuszka

    PS: BTW, I haven't spent my entire life in Chesterfield. Want a list?

  46. Hydra Avatar
    Hydra

    "Our Constitution and legal system are designed to defend THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES. It is irrelevant what a majority of Arizonas or Fairfax COuntians or whoever thinks when it comes to defending rights."

    Bingo.

    Besides that, the argumentum ad populum is a red herring and genetic fallacy. … the appeal to majority is a sure fire signal of flawed reasoning.

  47. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    Hey! that minority crappola only applies if you are a "Real" American.

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