Discipline Meltdown in Prince William Schools

Prince William County School Board Chairman Babur B. Lateef

by James A. Bacon

The adults are losing control of Prince William County public schools. Fighting and alcohol/drug-related violations increased 20% during the first three quarters of the current school year compared to the same period in the pre-COVID year of 2019-20.

In the third quarter alone, middle and high schools recorded 515 alcohol/drug-related violations, up from 344 in the second quarter. The division recorded 722 fights, up from 463 the previous quarter, according to a presentation to the schools’ Safe Schools Advisory Committee obtained by InsideNoVa.

Prince William teachers are raising an alarm that social issues stemming from school closures, coupled with staffing shortages in schools, are making the job of educating students more difficult, InsideNoVa says.

What’s interesting about this article is that school officials (1) are acknowledging they are having huge disciplinary issues; but (2) are blaming the rising level of fighting and drug abuse on the shift from in-school to at-home learning during the COVID epidemic. No one quoted by InsideNoVa expressed concern with the impact of the “restorative justice” paradigm for dealing with disciplinary issues. Indeed, school officials are doubling down on the “progressive” prescription for disorder in schools.

The remarkable thing about the surge in fighting and drug abuse statistics is that all the bureaucratic incentives are to under-report disciplinary infractions. School officials want to show that the restorative-justice approach is working. But clearly it isn’t.

Says InsideNoVa:

Nearly a dozen county teachers who have spoken with InsideNoVa over the past three months said that since the pandemic began they have encountered more classroom disruption and see a greater need for social, emotional and mental health resources.

The fear among some is that the increased burden on teachers will only drive more from the profession, despite teacher pay increases like the over 7% raise in average salary for certified county school system staff next year.

“People are pretty exhausted, and these are people who mostly do this because they love teaching,” said one county high school teacher.

He told InsideNoVa that his school has seen an increase in drug use and fighting, both in the form of “small pushing and shoving” that typically doesn’t rise to the level of being reported and bigger fights that can leave kids hurt.

“Some kids are really dealing with a lot, and some were already dealing with a lot, but just regular classroom instruction comes with some more trouble than it did a couple of years ago.

The school system’s most visible response to the growing anarchy is to hire more school counselors. The school budget funds more than 22 new full-time counselor positions next fiscal year, bringing the total to 338 — although there is no guarantee the positions can be filled.

InsideNoVa‘s sources didn’t put it quite this way, but under the reigning “restorative justice” paradigm, the job of the school counselors is to teach students norms of behavior they should have learned at home. Director of Student Services Rebekah Schlatter describes the challenge this way:

For young students, Schlatter said, the classroom education often includes teaching kids about emotions and why they may feel different from day to day. As students get older, she said, much of the focus is on teaching students how to recognize when those emotions or feelings go from typical swings to something potentially more serious.

The silver lining of this report is that school officials are acknowledging the downside — ignored at the time — of keeping kids away from school during the COVID-19 epidemic.

“I don’t think we’re outside the national trend with what’s going on in schools … and I do believe it is a direct result of keeping kids home for so long,” said School Board Chair Babur Lateef. “That has been a challenge, and getting everybody resocialized, reengaged and getting the learning recovered has been incredibly challenging. It will continue to be for both the short term and the long term. I mean, there is no quick fix for this.”

Does anybody want to guess how much actual learning took place in PWC schools this year? We’ll find out when the Virginia Department of Education (VDOE) publishes SOL data later this year.


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45 responses to “Discipline Meltdown in Prince William Schools”

  1. Kathleen Smith Avatar
    Kathleen Smith

    Emotional and mental health are what principals report as one of their biggest concerns. I am not sure what can be done, but it appears the education system is on its own path of implosion. Is it time for a radical change in how we do education, or is this a passing trend? Pop culture? I don’t know the answer, but doing nothing might be the wrong thing to do. We have accepted helicopter parents and bull-dozer parents. Now-woke parents. The system may not be broke, maybe the feeders to the system are broke.

    If I have a machine that sorts buttons that are no more than 1/4 inch and I feed it 1/2 inch, the machine can’t do its job? Are we sending kids to school that are 1/2 inch instead of a 1/4 inch? Do I get a new machine, re-engineer the old machine, or tell the feeder to send me 1/4 inch only?

  2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    The authors of the report spoke to nearly a dozen educators. If restorative justice was a contributing factor to the problems, you would think that at least one educator would have brought it up. But none did.

    You claim that restorative justice is not working. Then you follow that assertion with “Says Inside NoVa:….” followed by a lengthy excerpt from the article that contains nothing implying that restorative justice is part of the problem.

    You seem to complain that “under the reigning “restorative justice” paradigm, the job of the school counselors is to teach students norms of behavior they should have learned at home.” If the parents are not going to do it, who is? What would you have the schools do? Not try to address the adjustment and stress problems and just suspend or expel the students that are causing problems?

    Finally, you get in another swipe at schools and various others by blithely asserting that the downside of keeping kids out of schools during the pandemic was “ignored at the time.” No one ignored the downside of keeping the schools closed. Government officials were dealing with a new, dangerous, and highly contagious disease, about which little was known. In hindsight, it is easy to say that schools were kept closed too long, but those having to deal with the situation in real time had to make decisions balancing public health considerations with keeping schools open.

    Perhaps if there had not been so much resistance to vaccinations and mask wearing, there would have been a lot fewer COVID cases, hospitalizations, and deaths and officials would have felt that it was safe to open schools sooner than they did. But I don’t see you blaming those attitudes in society for contributing to the schools being closed and the resultant emotional and mental health problems of the students.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Well yes. The criticisms about discipline started before the pandemic… not like the pandemic caused them and yes, every chance JAB gets, he takes another swipe at the schools and what they did during the pandemic that he disagrees with.

      It’s a theme in many of his blog posts.

      1. One of the reasons I take so many “swipes” against schools is because so many people, including you, are in total denial about what’s happening. I will continue to take “swipes” until there is general agreement as to (1) the fact that discipline is collapsing in many (not all) schools, and (2) the reasons for the decline. Sadly, I don’t expect to see that change of mind occur any time soon.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Not in denial about it at all – it’s a problem and it actually has been for some time.

          And the schools are trying things like restorative justice that may well end up like Whole Language did – a bust.

          Most school systems DO separate the behavior kids into separate programs. I know they do in Spotsylvania. You mess up and off you go to the “Alternative program”.

          But they don’t have the luxury that private schools and other non-public schools do – i.e. just boot them out and let them then become a problem for the police and criminal justice system –

          which I will again remind you – that we already have more people in prison as a percent than every other OECD country.

          And we don’t keep them in there for life. Eventually they get out and live in society.

          That’s where your view comes apart IMHO.

          What is your solution to this beyond claiming failure?

          What should we do instead if this approach is a failure?

          All you do is repeat over and over the “failure”… right?

    2. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Yeah, I don’t get the criticism either. Schools are, in part, social settings. Restorative justice is concerned with establishing norms within a social setting with respect to acceptable behavior and expression of remorse. If students are not receiving such fortification at home, schools are a substitute setting. Expulsion is not an effective remedy for behavior modification.

      1. dave schutz Avatar
        dave schutz

        “.. If students are not receiving such fortification at home, schools are a substitute setting. Expulsion is not an effective remedy for behavior modification…” You have two problems: one is the kids who are out of control and how to enable them to function in a way that works for them and those around them, and one is how to protect the kids who are NOT out of control from the baleful effects of the OOC kids. It seems to me that restorative justice focus is on how to heal the OOC kids, but that there’s a big fail in how to protect others against their damaging effects.

    3. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      1) Virginia was the first to close in-person schooling in the Country.

      2) They made no plans over the summer to conduct virtual leaning that would be beneficial to the students nor did they place any effort towards preparing a good hybrid program (failure to plan COA)

      3) No amount of mask wearing or vaccinations were going to eradicate COVID. The United States has not been a source of mutation to date, in fact that has come to our shores from nations who didn’t get the vaccine.

      I think it’s time you take a step back from commenting or writing articles, as at this point. You’ve lost all semblance of reasonability and or an unbiased opinion.

    4. “In hindsight, it is easy to say that schools were kept closed too long…”

      Yeah, but I was saying it in real time, not in hindsight. So were other conservatives on this blog.

      “What would you have the schools do? … Just suspend or expel the students that are causing problems?”

      Yes, expel students who repeatedly show they cannot abide by basic behavioral norms and find alternative educational arrangements for them. Bring back reform schools. Stop punishing students who want to learn.

      “If there had not been so much resistance to vaccinations and mask wearing, there would have been a lot fewer COVID cases, hospitalizations, and deaths and officials would have felt that it was safe to open schools sooner than they did.”

      Ah, so the prolonged school closings really weren’t the fault of the people who closed the schools! Yeah, sure. Virginia did more than almost other state to close its schools. Please show me the data that says COVID spread more rapidly or was more virulent in states that where masks and vaccinations and school closings weren’t mandated.

      The response of the Northam administration and like-minded school districts to COVID was an unparalleled public policy disaster. The after-effects, which I began blogging about last fall way before anyone else even noticed there was a problem, will be with us a long time. We still haven’t pulled out of the nose dive.

      But, then, I wouldn’t expect the progressives running Virginia’s biggest schools systems to admit to their complicity in the greatest setback to education in modern history. They are more committed to their ideology and their careers than to Virginia’s students.

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        If you are going to quote me, please use the entire quote. For the last quote, you left out “Perhaps”. I don’t claim to be able to predict, with any certainty, what would have happened if circumstances had been different.

        Again, for you, it is the “progressives running Virginia’s biggest school systems” who are at fault. The data show that the “progressive” and large divisions had as good as, if not better, record on opening schools in the 2020-2021 school year. For example, Prince William achieved “all hybrid” status by March 1. Fairfax, Arlington, and Alexandria had followed suit by March 1. In contrast, Halifax County did not reach that status until March 22 and Prince Edward not until April 5. As of May 3, 2021, the status of schools in Prince William, Fairfax, Arlington, and Alexandria was “all hybrid”. But Halifax, Prince Edward, Nelson, King & Queen, and King George counties, hardly what one would call progressive were at the same status. By May 3, the large jurisdictions of Henrico, Chesterfield, and Loudoun (the most progressive of all, according to some folks) were “in person”, whereas the counties of Halifax, Prince Edward, Nelson, and King & Queen were still in the “all hybrid” category. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/support/health_medical/office/reopen-status.shtml

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          In-person classes on May 3 of 2021? I call that a triumph, Dick.
          Except for all the school divisions who went back at the beginning of the second semester.

          And the Catholic schools who were in person starting in August of 2020. But then everyone knows that Catholics drink so much that no virus has a chance.

          Another Irish joke – alert the press.

          1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            Henrico and Chesterfield were in-person by March 8. I provided a summary in order to avoid all the details. My point was that, contrary to Jim Bacon’s belief, it was not all large “progressive” divisions that kept their schools closed most of the year.

            As shown on the nice table provided by Matt Hurt, if not for Richmond, the Central Region would have probably been second in the percentage of hours of in-person instruction. Southside, which is not progressive by any definition, was next to last in the percentage of hours of in-person instruction.

        2. Matt Hurt Avatar
          Matt Hurt

          This may be a better way to look at it. This table conveys the average number of instructional hours that were offered in-person last year. It’s a much better measure than what you referenced, as those categories were not applied consistently.

          https://www.baconsrebellion.com/app/uploads/2021/10/hurt-table-1.jpg

      2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        If you are going to quote me, please use the entire quote. For the last quote, you left out “Perhaps”. I don’t claim to be able to predict, with any certainty, what would have happened if circumstances had been different.

        Again, for you, it is the “progressives running Virginia’s biggest school systems” who are at fault. The data show that the “progressive” and large divisions had as good as, if not better, record on opening schools in the 2020-2021 school year. For example, Prince William achieved “all hybrid” status by March 1. Fairfax, Arlington, and Alexandria had followed suit by March 1. In contrast, Halifax County did not reach that status until March 22 and Prince Edward not until April 5. As of May 3, 2021, the status of schools in Prince William, Fairfax, Arlington, and Alexandria was “all hybrid”. But Halifax, Prince Edward, Nelson, King & Queen, and King George counties, hardly what one would call progressive were at the same status. By May 3, the large jurisdictions of Henrico, Chesterfield, and Loudoun (the most progressive of all, according to some folks) were “in person”, whereas the counties of Halifax, Prince Edward, Nelson, and King & Queen were still in the “all hybrid” category. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/support/health_medical/office/reopen-status.shtml

      3. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Sometimes it’s hard to tell if JAB really believes what he saying or he is purposely misrepresenting things. I have my suspects.

        Northam delegated to the school districts what they would do, yet JAB says stuff like this: ” Virginia’s biggest schools systems to admit to their complicity in the greatest setback to education in modern history. They are more committed to their ideology and their careers than to Virginia’s students.”

        talk about way out over your skiis…. geeze…

        teachers AND parents were concerned that in-person would spread COVID. There was a split about it. Conservatives opposed masks and other measures to mitigate.

        We have no real way to compare Virginia to other states on the impacts since schools in Virginia did a variety of approaches – as did other states.

        Yet if one is to believe JAB , none of the above was true – only his subjective view of it – which he repeats over and over in blog after blog.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          See his comment in the next article.

        2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Read your comment above, Larry. I don’t think you wrote what you meant.

          The school districts set their own policies not because or despite what the governor said, but rather because they are given that responsibility in the Virginia Constitution. The Governor’s emergency powers would have been stretched to the breaking point in the General Assembly.

          There were variations, but generally:
          – the blue school board divisions stayed closed to full time instruction. Richmond public schools stayed closed the entire 2020-2021 school year.
          – The red ones opened as soon as they thought they could safely do so and generally much earlier than the blue.
          – The Catholic schools opened for full time in-person instruction in August of 2020.

          Those are the facts.

          So were the blue districts driven by ideology, including the outsized influence of teachers unions? The answer according to progressive press reports is yes. They were proud of it. The unions bragged about it in Fairfax County.

          The same press reported that the districts that opened earlier were purposely endangering their children. Do you believe that to be true? I don’t think you do. Did it turn out that way? No.

          Finally, the MSM and their regional acolytes refused to discuss the success of the Catholic schools in opening for full time in person instruction in August of 2020.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            If they are “facts” then provide a reference.

            Also , if the blue districts did so badly and the others did good – where is that data?

            You say “success” of the Catholic Schools.

            Can you provide the academic results that confirm this claim?

            Can you provide data that shows the rural red schools performed better academically from in-person?

          2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            Enjoy your life, Larry.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            yup – that’s about what I thought.

            no data to back up the claims that red in-person actually did out-perform the blue virtual..

            and no data to show that the Catholic schools outperformed either.

    5. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      It wasn’t hindsight, Dick.

      The Catholic schools in Virginia were open for in-person instruction starting in August of 2020. There was no evidence they were the worse for it from a COVID perspective. All of them, on the other hand, got an entire year more of socialization and instruction than the kids of Richmond Public Schools.

      Which set of kids do you consider better served?

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        I think kids in any school district are being better served than those in Richmond.

  3. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Prince William has about 90,000 students. Probably 30,000 are grades 9-12.

    Out of that number – they’re reporting 515 alcohol/drug-related violations and 722 fights in a quarter.

    Their overall SOL performance is about 78

    https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/divisions/prince-william-county-public-schools#desktopTabs-6

    On a percent basis – we’re in single digits. This hardly sounds like a “meltdown” or anarchy.

    And the funny thing – ALL of this data plus the additional reports generated were released to the public – which they should be – and then
    that data is then used to condemn teachers, administrators, indeed public education itself.

    Looking at the numbers, it’s looks like the vast majority of students in Prince William, 99% are NOT behavior problems and DO end up doing well on the SOLs and graduate, i.e. not seriously harmed by massive numbers of “out-of-control” students.

    I remain unconvinced of his claim.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      Mr. Larry this sort of trouble is in the community and the schools. PW police chief is seeing the same thing on the streets. Schools usually reflect what is around them.
      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/prince-william-county-chief-concerned-over-increasing-aggravated-assaults-violent-crimes/ar-AAXJQFP?ocid=BingNewsSearch

    2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Ask a teacher.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Until/unless we can see some actual comparison data between Prince William and say Fairfax or Henrico or Chesterfield – I treat this claim as yet more anecdotal evidence without a real basis in fact that Prince William is descending into “anarchy” and instead see it mostly as more boogeyman stuff from the usual suspects here.

        The technique here in BR has degenerated into quite a bit of anecdotal what-a-boutism similar to what we see on Tucker Carlson these days.

        No one, least of all, folks who consider themselves conservatives, should be surprised that the schools mirror our society and that the bigger schools like Prince William have their share of these kinds of issues but the claim they are descending into chaos and anarchy is mostly more blather.

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead

          15 year old assaulted and hospitalized at a Woodbridge high school. No arrest. No charges. Police consult with juvenile court. The courts and law enforcement take a pass. All corrective measures handled informally within the school. What are kids supposed to do Mr. Larry? Carry a roll of quarters in their pocket?
          https://patch.com/virginia/woodbridge-va/15-year-old-boy-taken-hospital-after-assault-freedom-high-school

  4. James C. Sherlock Avatar
    James C. Sherlock

    Removed as a public service to the woke.

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      One post about ethnic diversity as humor was enough. Your bias is showing. As first generation I-A, I resent the continued failed attempt at humor.

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        See my response to Steve. You have set yet another new rule, two jokes on the same subject is bias. Got it. I have entered in my book of rules. Whatever you do, don’t ever lighten up. And don’t ever read my multiple columns deploring the gerrymandering of Asians out of TJ.

    2. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      I’m sorry, I don’t get the joke. And I’m losing confidence it actually is just a joke and not raging bias. Attacking Muslims is also anti-Semitism, you know (although everybody forgets.)

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        OK. I guess that’s it.

      2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        OK, you got me Steve. I used an Irish joke to invoke anti-semitism. I’ll notify Dave Chapelle, Chris Rock and Ricky Gervais about the new rule.

        1. dave schutz Avatar
          dave schutz

          from hist’ry I had learned
          How many, many times the worm had turned
          They all laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the world was round
          They all laughed when Edison recorded sound
          They all laughed at Wilbur and his brother when they said that man could fly
          They told Marconi wireless was a phony, it’s the same old cry
          They laughed at me wanting you, said I was reaching for the moon
          But oh, you came through, now they’ll have to change their tune
          They all said we never could be happy, they laughed at us and how!
          But ho, ho, ho! Who’s got the last laugh now?
          They all laughed at Rockefeller Center, now they’re fighting to get in
          They all laughed at Whitney and his cotton gin
          They all laughed Fulton and his steamboat, Hershey and his chocolate bar

  5. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Most of the problems would simply go away if we did what critics of public schools advocate.

    1. – expel the ones who can’t behave
    2. – stop reporting the SOL scores and let the parents decide if their kids are getting a good education or not.

    works for private schools, right?

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      My daughter just moved up from the middle school to high school at Randolph Macon Academy. Did RMA expel students who could not stay between the lines? Absolutely. A number of them washed out in the last 3 years. Did my daughter receive a good education? Oh my. Yes. No learning loss Mr. Larry. She is actually prepared for high school.

    2. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      No, and at this point you are being intentionally false, the privates do plenty of testing including tests that are also done in the public schools. Most of us refuse to deal with you, Larry, because the same falsehoods repeat over and over despite all the corrections and call-outs. You’re a bot.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Private schools report their results like public schools do?

        What do private schools do about behavior issues like we see being reported in public schools?

        1. Stephen Haner Avatar
          Stephen Haner

          They love not being accountable to fools like you.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            If the results are good, they’d publish them.

    3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Where in God’s name did you get #2 “advocated” by “critics of public schools”?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Well, it’s claimed by some public school critics on these pages that private schools need not report their scores because parents can decide if they like the results or not. Right?

  6. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    Prince William will likely stick with PBIS, Multi Tiered Support System, SEL, and Restorative Practices. Which means they are not going to do anything about this issue.

  7. Ruckweiler Avatar
    Ruckweiler

    We’ve let the little darlings and their oh so wonderful parents get away with aberrant behavior for so long that now they do it naturally. Making excuses and not demanding decorum has come to roost with that described in the article. Education and chaos are mutually exclusive. Meanwhile, we’re spending time and money on DIE nonsense as a priority, nationally.

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