Not “remarkable”

by James A. Bacon

In early February an exchange took place during a State Board of Education (SBOE) meeting between Anne Holton and Suparna Dutta that highlights the massive leftward shift within Virginia’s Democratic Party. So outraged were militant leftists by Suparna’s remarks that Democratic state senators voted unanimously to reject her appointment to the SBOE.

Did Dutta minimize the horrors of American slavery? Did she make racially charged statements? Did the dark-complected Hindu immigrant say anything that could be remotely construed as “white supremacist,” as one of her accusers described her? No, no, and no. She defended America’s key founding documents, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and that was a bridge too far.

The exchange between Dutta and Holton arose during a discussion of the Youngkin administration’s revised standards for history and civics Standards of Learning. Holton honed in on a section of the document that described the “foundational principles” behind the standards.

One of those principles stated, “The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are remarkable documents that provide the freedoms and framework for our constitutional republic.” Another stated, “Centralized government planning in the form of socialism or communist political systems is
incompatible with democracy and individual freedoms.”

Before we move on, let’s be clear about one thing. Those statements were not part of the actual standards but guiding principles for devising the standards. The Youngkin administration is intent upon teaching “the good and the bad” of American and world history. The bad includes the “abhorrent treatment of Native Americans, the stain of slavery, segregation and racism in the United States and around the world.” But it also includes the good, which includes the Declaration and the Constitution.

There are two layers to this controversy. The first is the substance of the disagreement between Dutta and Holton — how we appraise the Declaration and the Constitution. The second is how Dutta’s enemies declared her views to be so beyond the pale that she and they had to be repudiated.

What they said

Holton prompted the discussion by recommending that the “guiding principles” be struck from the revised history and civics standards. “They’re not essential to the standards,” she said. I would agree with her there. The principles described the philosophy of the Youngkin officials who were writing the standards but not part of the standards themselves. I would concur that they could have been excised from the document without doing any damage to the Standards themselves.

But Holton didn’t stop there. She went on to say, “And I find them offensive.” Here’s how she explained herself.

To an audience as inclusive as our Virginia is, you cannot reference the Declaration of Independence and Constitution as ‘remarkable documents’ without also acknowledging that they contained fundamental flaws enshrining slavery and limiting the protections they provided for only to white propertied men. I’m not comfortable with that language. I’m not comfortable with the language of centralized government planning for socialist or communist political systems as incompatible with democracy. I would concede on communism but there are plenty of governments that call themselves socialist democratic governments. So, is socialism compatible with democracy? That would be a great debate to have in a 12th grade government civics class.

Dutta defended the principles and attacked the earlier version of the history/civic standards as “looking at history … through a lens of race, through a lens of enslavement, servitude, colonialism, imperialism.” Said she:

There was so little to feel proud about…. Rather than traditional American values, this was almost like activist civics, activist history. … This is exactly the kind of divisive and controversial indoctrination that parents are tired of.… The August standard was defective. The Board recognized it. And we wanted the staff to go back and revamp it.… Having grown up in a country with remnants of colonialism and a lot of socialism, I can tell you this is fantastic… I would not want this section on the guiding principles to be removed or modified.

The Declaration and Constitution, I think they are remarkable documents. I don’t believe that the Declaration and Constitution enshrined slavery, nor did they limit protections to white propertied men.… The Constitution didn’t mention race or slavery—

At this point Holton interjected: “It did! The three-fifths clause.”

Holton was referring to the three-fifths clause of the Constitution that allocated congressional seats based on the basis of the number of “free persons” and “all other persons,” which was a euphemism for slaves, who were counted a three-fifths of a person.

“It didn’t mention race or slavery,” Dutta retorted.

It’s hideous for any person to be considered any less than one whole. It’s unimaginable, abominable. From what I’ve read – I’ve tried to do the research – there is nobody defending it. It’s just a fact that it was a compromise to [garbled] the representation of the southern states. The Constitution did not end slavery, but it never would have been ratified if it had. As far as the socialist or communist, I think socialism is just about as bad as communism. Socialism is, like, the nanny state, which predominates in so many parts of the world. It co-opts the important decisions belonging to families and individuals. I come from a country that used to more more socialistic … then than it is now, but it creates dearth, dependency and depression.

Were they racist documents?

It is difficult to understand why Holton would have been offended by describing the Declaration of Independence a “remarkable document.” Author Thomas Jefferson penned the most powerful assertion of human liberty and equality ever written: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

The Declaration made no exception for Africans or slaves.

Holton seemed to object mainly to calling the U.S. Constitution a “remarkable” document, contending that it enshrined slavery and limited protections to white propertied men.

It is undeniably true that the Constitution permitted slavery at the time, a political necessity, as Dutta observed, in order to bring the Southern slave states into the union. But the Constitution also contained within itself the means, by means of amendments, for abolishing slavery, which the 13th amendment in fact did in 1865.

Also, one must note that the Bill of Rights was added in 1791, five years after the Constitution was ratified. Never had governing laws enshrining such extensive rights been enacted before. The Bill of Rights protected the right of all Americans — not just white propertied males — to enjoy free speech, to practice their religion, and to petition the government. It protected the right of all citizens to be free from unreasonable searches and seizure. It granted all persons the right to due process of law and a trial by jury.

By 21st century standards, the 1796 and 1791 versions of the Constitution were flawed, most grievously in permitting the institution of slavery and in not conferring on women the right to vote. But by the standards of its time, it was not only remarkable, it was extraordinary… indeed revolutionary. The Constitution represented the greatest single advance in human rights in the history of mankind. It is blameworthy only in failing to make the leap to full freedom for all people all at once. For Holton to be “offended” by the use of the word “remarkable” shows a breathtaking lack of perspective.

Is socialism incompatible with freedom?

It is refreshing to know that Holton concedes that communism is incompatible with freedom, given the fact that the two largest mass murderers in modern history — Mao Tse Tung and Joseph Stalin — were communist. The question, then, really is whether socialism is incompatible with freedom.

That question becomes a matter of semantics. Let’s adopt the definition provided by the Oxford dictionary: Socialism is “a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.”

The Youngkin administration’s guiding principles did not target socialism directly. Rather the principles stated that “centralized government planning in the form of socialism or communist political systems” is incompatible with democracy and human freedoms. Missing from Holton’s formulation is any reference to centralized government planning. 

When American leftists think of socialism, they don’t envision Zimbabwe or Venezuela, countries in which socialists utilizing the untrammeled power of the state destroyed their economies, reduced their populations to penury, and made a mockery of human rights. Leftists think primarily of stable and prosperous Scandinavian democracies. It is true that the Scandinavian countries do have parties with “socialist” in their names. But theirs is a socialism so watered down that it arguably is not socialist at all. All Scandinavian countries have vibrant market-based economies that are among the freest in the world. They do not engage in “central government planning.” They are socialist only in the sense that they overlay market capitalism with generous welfare states… a very different arrangement than the state owning the means of production, distribution and exchange.

Dutta had her own “lived experience” with socialism in India, which the Indians themselves have in large part rejected since she emigrated. In America, she appears to equate socialism with the “nanny state,” which exalts a powerful state regulatory apparatus. Strictly speaking, the “nanny state” is not socialist. It uses its coercive power to dictate how people behave; it does not require the ownership of production, distribution and exchange. If one wanted to argue semantics — the nanny-state is not socialist — one could say that Dutta’s criticism was off-base. However, her argument falls well within the mainstream of American discourse.

White supremacist?

Dutta was a target of the left long before she spoke up at the February SBOE meeting. She was a vocal defender of the merit-based system for admitting students into the elite Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology. In an article published in Real Clear Politics, independent journalist Asra Q. Nomani also details how Muslim organizations in Northern Virginia denounced Dutta as belonging to an “anti-Muslim Hindu extremist group.” But her critics did not have enough clout to derail her confirmation to the SBOE. The floodgates of criticism opened only after her exchange with Holton.

Among other critics, state Sen. Ghazala Hashmi, D-Midlothian, a Muslim immigrant from India — who, incidentally, has a much lighter skin color than Dutta — attacked her for her “alignment with very extreme and right-wing white supremacist groups.” It’s not clear to whom Hashmi was referring — the Klan? Neo-Nazis? Anti-Muslim Hindu nationalists? … Or parents’ rights organizations in Northern Virginia?

Reminiscent of the attacks on Bert Ellis, the conservative appointee to the University of Virginia Board of Visitors, Dutta never had an opportunity to counter the charges of extremism. But any fair-minded person can listen to her exchange with Holton on the video of the SBOE meeting. If she is “extremist,” so are the founding documents of our nation, and so are the majority of Americans who still revere them.

This episode tells us much about the evolving attitudes in the Democratic Party. Holton is not some fringe activist. She is the wife of Senator Tim Kaine, a former Virginia secretary of education, and former president of George Mason University — in sum, a pillar of Virginia’s Democratic Party establishment. No one in the Democratic Party reprimanded her for her views. To the contrary, Democratic senators voted unanimously to boot Dutta off the Board of Education.

Under the Democrats’ new rules, it’s not enough to teach students that the original version of the Constitution contained the “three fifths” clause — something that no one disagrees with. When describing the founding document, we must ritually acknowledge that in its original form it was racist, sexist and otherwise flawed…. And anyone who dares defend the Constitution is an extremist who has no legitimate place in state government.


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54 responses to “Demonizing Dutta”

  1. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Dutta was bounced because she is one of the leaders of the parents group fighting with the Thomas Jefferson specialty high school over its admissions policies. As a member of the BoE she woukd have far more influence. The dust up was just an excuse, although Holton’s arguments were disaapointng. Calling those two founding documents “remarkable” is indisputable. Does she think them cliched or banal? Even if not perfect, remarkable is an easy adjective.

  2. LesGabriel Avatar

    There were a lot of powerful people, mainly but not entirely in the South, who resisted up until at least the 1960’s. They were called Democrats.

    1. LesGabriel Avatar

      “Did you know? During Reconstruction, the Republican Party in the South represented a coalition of Black people (who made up the overwhelming majority of Republican voters in the region) along with “carpetbaggers” and “scalawags,” as white Republicans from the North and South, respectively, were known.” This quote is from History.com. White Republicans in the South were also lynched during the post-war period. Jim Crow laws and segregation were Democrat projects.

      1. LesGabriel Avatar

        Thanks. I did learn something here, namely, that for decades after the Civil War there were splits in the Republican Party over race. I am not aware of any similar splits among the Democrats. The following sentence is taken from your source. “According to author and professor Michael K. Fauntroy, the Lily-White Movement is one of the darkest and most “under-examined [eras] of American Republicanism”. What do you think is the darkest and most under-examined eras of the Democrat Party?

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          The Lily-white Movement is not merely about splits in the Republican Party in the South, it is about purging the Republican Party in the South of blacks thereby denying the Southern Black citizens any chance of participation or Black representation in their government.

          There is no doubt that southern Democrats were responsible for Jim Crow and the subjugation of blacks in the south. They were after all the party of the white Southern majority and made sure that they were never challenged in their political control. So that is certainly one of their darkest eras… not sure about under-examined…

          It bears repeating that by the turn of the century, both parties in the south were controlled by white Southerners and both parties supported a system of racial subjugation. The common denominator in both cases… white Southerners… conservatives and liberals alike … that is until liberal whites in the South – best exemplified by Lyndon B. Johnson – woke (sorry for the pun) to how they were treating their fellow human beings….

    2. Is that in the new history standards? Teaching about the actual true standards of the Democratic Party?

      1. LesGabriel Avatar

        I doubt it. Some people talk a lot about teaching the full history of race in America, but they tend to leave the legacy of the Democrat Party completely out.

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          I really don’t believe that… the responsibility of the Democratic Party is well known and a clear part of history – I am sure history teachers use the accurate “Democratic Party” name when they teach it, however. I am also sure that they teach (again accurately) that most white Southerns fled the Democratic Party after the passage of the first Civil Rights Act and found a new home in the Republican Party.

          1. LesGabriel Avatar

            ” the responsibility of the Democratic Party is well known and a clear part of history” If there were a poll done, perhaps one has been done, what percentage of people, especially young people, would say that Democrats were responsible for passing and enforcing Jim Crow laws compared to those who would say that Republicans were responsible? Same with which Party opposed anti-lynching laws.

          2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Asking a rhetorical question is no evidence in support of your position. I suspect that I could pretty easily cite texts and guidance to support mine. Care to wager?

          3. LesGabriel Avatar

            Is your position that more people believe that Democrats are responsible for Jim Crow laws and opposing anti-lynching laws than believe that about Republicans? If that is your position, then we may have a wager.

          4. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            My position is that the responsibility of the Democratic Party for Jim Crow and for supporting any number of white supremacy positions in the south is well taught in schools.

            Which is counter to what you contended here:

            “Some people talk a lot about teaching the full history of race in America, but they tend to leave the legacy of the Democrat Party completely out.”

            I say that is clearly part of the curriculum in school and has been for some time. Are we on?

          5. LarrytheG Avatar

            I’m fine with identifying the Democratic party with the abuses of Jim Crow.

            Tell the history. The full Jim Crow history as well as the shifts in the political parties with respect to Jim Crow and the years and decades that followed right on up to today.

            Tell the complete history.

            It feel like today, the Dems do acknowledge the abuses and want change and the Conservatives don’t want the full story told, just the part about the Dems and Jim Crow.

            Tell it all.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar

            trying to get to the truth on this issue is difficult when dealing with contemporary conservatives.

          7. Warmac9999 Avatar

            I think you mean contemporary democrats.

  3. Kathleen Smith Avatar
    Kathleen Smith

    Until we find common ground, both Dutta as a far right, and Holton as a far left, will serve to divide us. They both have the right to voice their opinions. I am not sure I totally agree with either of them.

    1. Why are conservatives always required compromise or meet in the middle, but extreme Democrats are not?

      Today’s Democrats won’t even acknowledge the need to provide medical services to babies who survive attempted abortions.

      If we as a country can’t even support live infant babies, what hope do we have for compromise on anything?

      “Nearly every House Democrat on Wednesday voted against legislation that would require immediate medical attention for babies who are born alive after an attempt was made to abort them.”

      https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-vote-against-bill-requiring-medical-care-babies-born-alive-abortion-attempt

      Keep in mind, what you appear to be critical of are her personal views, not the standards themselves. So conservatives can’t even hold personal views that differ from others. We must compromise even there?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        so if someone said they personally did not have a problem with communism or similar, you’d be okay with them in that role?

        1. “so if someone said they personally did not have a problem with communism or similar, you’d be okay with them in that role?”

          Is that a joke?

          Not only can communist sympathizers hold important positions in government, they can even run for President.

          Ever heard of Bernie Sanders?

          “I Lived In Soviet Russia When Bernie Sanders Visited, And He’s A Communist Dupe”

          https://thefederalist.com/2020/02/21/i-lived-in-soviet-russia-when-bernie-sanders-visited-and-hes-a-communist-dupe/

      2. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        Conservatives should never have to compromise the obvious virtue of their beliefs. The opinions and beliefs of others are simply unworthy exceptions to American exceptionalism.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          They especially get on their high philosophical horse on “socialism”.

          As if, public roads, public schools, public health like Medicare and Medicaid, Social Security are not.

          When we hear Conservatives say up front, that they actually think these things ARE and should be stopped, we actually ought to take notice.

          Even RIck Scott figured that out.

  4. Donald Smith Avatar
    Donald Smith

    Excellent piece. It does appear that today’s Democrat is uncomfortable with calling the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution “remarkable documents,” without genuflecting to their base, the Wokeists. More and more people are getting tired of their schtick

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      First they came for low hanging fruit such as Stonewall. At least we know what is next and they are not ashamed to reach high up into the branches.

  5. LarrytheG Avatar

    would there be a problem with a compromise statement that said something to the effect that the two documents were remarkable but seriously flawed documents that needed substantial changes to address racial and gender inequities?

  6. James McCarthy Avatar
    James McCarthy

    “The bad includes the “abhorrent treatment of Native Americans, the stain of slavery, segregation and racism in the United States and around the world.” But it also includes the good, which includes the Declaration and the Constitution.” Apples and watermelon comparisons, sadly. The two sets may be juxtaposed but comparing the two is a useless exercise to interpret behavior to the written word. Unless, of course, one accepts that the “good” of the Constitution and Declaration did not promote Plessy v Ferguson or Dredd Scott. Some of the “bad” of those written documents included the 3/5ths compromise and the un-democratic Electoral College, insulating elections from the popular vote. Relating this nation’s bad conduct toward some cannot be adequately examined fairly in comparison to the two written documents.

    1. … the un-democratic Electoral College, insulating elections from the popular vote.

      It is highly debatable whether this is “bad”. The intent of the Constitution was to form a Republic, not a straight-up direct democracy.

      Also, why bring another of your grievances into this? I thought y’all were doing fine arguing about the unfortunate, but [regrettably] necessary-at-the-time, 3/5 compromise.

  7. I find the exchange in the above article and, many of the comments related to it, to be extremely sad, even depressing. From the aftermath of the Civil War to modern times, what has kept the country together was a common appreciation of our country, and the role it has played in the advancement of freedom and liberty around the world.

    10 Oldest Constitutions In The World

    https://www.oldest.org/politics/constitutions/

    For Democrats, that has now been replaced with a destructive and irrational self-loathing, that advances nothing except hatred and divisiveness.

    Our founding documents are more than remarkable, they have proven to be revolutionary. The fact that Anne Holton had to resort to a complete misrepresentation of the three-fifths clause to find fault with our Constitution should tell you all you need to know about the entire controversy.

    Had the framers not insisted on the three-fifths clause, the abolitionist movement would have been delayed by decades, or perhaps longer. To argue that the Southern states should have been able to count slaves who had no rights or ability to vote as whole persons would have given the slave holding states significantly more power to advance slavery in the territories. That’s a fact.

    Armed with more representatives and more electoral votes, Lincoln would not have been elected and slave holding states would have not felt threatened by the abolition movement in the North.

    So to advance their political agenda, modern Democrats have aligned themselves with the slave holding South.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      re: ” From the aftermath of the Civil War to modern times, what has kept the country together was a common appreciation of our country, and the role it has played in the advancement of freedom and liberty around the world.”

      For the black man, the period after the civil war was not exactly “freedom” and “liberty”.

      1. Never said it was.

        Countries are like people. It’s possible to recognize greatness, while still acknowledging imperfections.

        The Patriotism of African Americans throughout our history is well documented, even from the time of the Revolution.

        Did you know that the first victim of the Boston Massacre, Crispus Attucks, was black?

        Despite our faults, what has united us has always been greater that what divided us. Lose that glue, and we will come apart. It’s inevitable.

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          IMO, what has inited the US was an appreciation that sharing in the common wealth was more advantageous than remaining in a state of nature. Another elemental unification measure was the failure of the Confederacy to save slavery.

    2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      Ummm… Northern delegates did not “insist” on the 3/5 compromise. They wanted no slaves to be counted. The Southern delegates wanted all slaves to be counted. Given that the Southern delegates were seeking to perpetuate slavery, you really can’t say either side saw the slaves as human beings (or “men”) worthy of the freedom they espoused in the Constitution and Declaration.

    3. DJRippert Avatar

      There you go again – confusing the issue with facts. The Constitution was a document defined in compromise. The compromise of the times.

      1. It should go without saying that there were limitations in what was possible to accomplish in one document hundreds of years ago. If we have to make compromises even today, why can we not understand why it was necessary back then?

        What is remarkable, is how much they got right. It’s amazing actually.

        There’s only one constitution still in use in the entire world that’s older than ours. How can any reasonable person argue with such a benign term as “remarkable”?

      2. It should go without saying that there were limitations in what was possible to accomplish in one document hundreds of years ago. If we have to make compromises even today, why can we not understand why it was necessary back then?

        What is remarkable, is how much they got right. It’s amazing actually.

        There’s only one constitution still in use in the entire world that’s older than ours. How can any reasonable person argue with such a benign term as “remarkable”?

    4. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      Ummm… Northern delegates did not “insist” on the 3/5 compromise. They wanted no slaves to be counted. The Southern delegates wanted all slaves to be counted. Given that the Southern delegates were seeking to perpetuate slavery, you really can’t say either side saw the slaves as human beings (or “men”) worthy of the freedom they espoused in the Constitution and Declaration.

      1. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to state that the Northern states wouldn’t agree to what the Southern states wanted, which was to fully count slaves. The Northern states did, however, require the change so “insisted” isn’t a misrepresentation.

        My point is nonetheless correct. Arguing against the compromise would be taking the Southern position – a position that advanced the power of the slave states.

        1. And you have a greater understanding than those who lived through slavery?

          “I have said that the Declaration of Independence is the ring-bolt to the chain of your nation’s destiny; so, indeed, I regard it. The principles contained in that instrument are saving principles. Stand by those principles, be true to them on all occasions, in all places, against all foes, and at whatever cost.”

          – Frederick Douglass

          Here’s another:

          “Allow me to say, in conclusion, notwithstanding the dark picture I have this day presented of the state of the nation, I do not despair of this country. There are forces in operation, which must inevitably work the downfall of slavery. ‘The arm of the Lord is not shortened,’ and the doom of slavery is certain. I, therefore, leave off where I began, with hope. While drawing encouragement from the Declaration of Independence, the great principles it contains, and the genius of American Institutions, my spirit is also cheered by the obvious tendencies of the age.”

          Disagree with Frederick Douglass if you will, but I happen to think he understood the situation much better than many today.

        2. You are rewriting history to suggest that the Southern states would have ratified the Constitution no matter what.

          And there were many, especially in the North who opposed slavery.

          Vermont spent 14 years as a de facto independent republic.

          “The upstart nation soon adopted a constitution—the first in North America to ban adult slavery and abolish property restrictions on voting—and established its own postal service and currency.”

          https://www.history.com/news/6-short-lived-republics-in-the-united-states

  8. LarrytheG Avatar

    would there be a problem with a compromise statement that said something to the effect that the two documents were remarkable but seriously flawed documents that needed substantial changes to address racial and gender inequities?

    1. Who exactly isn’t already saying that?

      Every time I mention Earth, is it really necessary to stipulate that it’s round, not flat?

      We recently celebrated Martin Luther King Jr. Day. Did you know that he too had faults. It’s true. He was a great man, remarkable even. But he was also human.

      Is it really necessary to list his shortcomings every single time someone says something positive about him?

      The Standards of Learning teach the full history of our country. That’s not what Anne Holton objected to. She could not seem to tolerate a positive comment about our founding documents without a litany of faults accompanying it.

      That’s what this is about.

      1. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        Nah, just her opinion.

  9. “To an audience as inclusive as our Virginia is, you cannot reference the Declaration of Independence and Constitution as ‘remarkable documents’ without also acknowledging that they contained fundamental flaws enshrining slavery and limiting the protections they provided for only to white propertied men.”

    Who doesn’t acknowledge that they were imperfect? Everyone, including Suparna Dutta, now understands the areas where our founding documents fell short of modern standards. They were remarkable for the time, nonetheless.

    Are we to judge all historical advancements by that same standard? If so, no major advancement in history would make the cut. No remarkable advancements in all of human history?

    Remarkable leaps in liberty, like those in engineering, are never perfect and complete. What revolutionary inventions of history have remained unchanged and are still used in their original state?

    If I state that any of these were remarkable, would that require that they could never be perfected beyond their original state?

    20 inventions that changed the world

    1. Wheel
    2. Printing press
    3. Penicillin
    4. Compass
    5. Light bulb
    6. Telephone
    7. Internal combustion engine
    8. Contraceptives
    9. Internet
    10. Nails

    https://www.livescience.com/33749-top-10-inventions-changed-world.html

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      No, no! The documents remain remarkable otherwise the author’s thesis fails.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar

      why is it not possible to say they were remarkable but seriously flawed documents that were the foundation for the country?

      We want the truth – no?

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        No. Had the DoI been written today, and the grievances fact checked, only Fox would have covered the story.

        The factual grievances were over the garrison of troops (who protected the colonies from the indigenous peoples in the wilderness and from the French causing problems everywhere), and the taxes to pay for them. In fact, Fox coverage would have called it “Defunding the Police”

      2. “why is it not possible to say they were remarkable but seriously flawed documents that were the foundation for the country?”

        That’s exactly what is believed and taught. Have you read the proposed standards?

        But that’s not good enough for Democrat extremists. They require absolute conformity of thought and personal views. With them, it’s the Spanish Inquisition.

        I think opposing views should be represented in the news media, in public forums and on governing boards. That isn’t true for leftists.

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          Yeah, the hypocrisy of Fauxy opinion makers lying about the 2020 election results was mere opinion.

          1. I don’t feel threatened by opposing views, but the left does. Your downvotes to my comments demonstrate that nicely. Thanks.

          2. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            No, the down votes represent only disagreement, not persecution.

  10. As a judge would Holton have been required to swear an oath to “protect and defend the Constitution”? Tim certainly did when he was sworn in as a Senator.

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Conflation of individual responsibility is a wondrous thing.

      1. Has Holton sworn to “protect and defend the Constitution”, that was my question. If she has then her comments to Dutta would seem to be in violation of that oath.

        Although I appreciate your effort, and silly walks are among the wondrous things, your response was non responsive.

  11. Turbocohen Avatar

    This is a little off topic but relevant to this discussion. Holton missed mentioning that Dutta’s party was established by people who opposed slavery, not because they all believed in black equality. GOP was formed by whites opposed to black slavery because the Democrats institution of black slavery hurt white farmers and workers who could not compete with the low labor costs of Southern slaveholders. The north demanded more from southern merchants who could supply more of what they wanted at lower prices. The GOP was a white northern rebellion against cheap labor using g political organizing in lieu of plows and factories.

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