Debunking the Lie of Unequal Funding, Part II

by James A. Bacon

A month ago I demonstrated in “The Big Lie of Unequal Funding” that there is no meaningful difference on average in the amount of money spent on black and white school children between school districts across Virginia. I drew that conclusion based on average spent per pupil in each school district. The comeback from those who want to believe that systemic racism exists is that while spending may be equal on average across school districts, spending might well be unequal within school districts. In other words, I did not prove that school districts didn’t discriminate against blacks by funneling more money to individual schools in whiter, more affluent neighborhoods.

It so happens that the Virginia Department of Education has just updated its School Quality Profiles, and it provides numbers for spending per school. We can now test the proposition that Virginia school boards discriminate on the basis of race by funding white schools more than black schools.

I have just run the numbers for Henrico County, my county of residence, and I conclude conclusively, that, yes, Henrico schools do discriminate. They spend more, on average, on black students than other students. Henrico elementary schools spend 6.8% more on blacks than non-blacks, 6.2% more in middle schools, and 3.8% more in high schools.

It is axiomatic among liberals and progressives that predominantly black schools are under-resourced while predominantly white schools are newer, shinier, have more experienced, higher-paid teachers and in many other ways benefit from white privilege. While Henrico County is just one school system, it is large, ethnically diverse and to some degree representative of the state as a whole. Based on the VDOE data, we can say that in at least in this instance, the Oppression Narrative is totally wrong. It has no factual foundation.

Is Henrico the exception or the rule? I invite readers to follow my methodology for their own school systems and submit their findings. I will publish them.

Let me explain my methodology. If you find it deficient, please explain. If I find your objections to be well founded, I will make the necessary adjustments.

  • First, I recorded in my spreadsheet the VDOE figure for total spending per school, as found in its School Quality Profiles.
  • Second, I calculated a per-pupil expenditure for each school, based on the most recent enrollment figure provided in the VDOE database.
  • Third, I downloaded the number of black students and non-black students. (Non-black includes whites, Hispanics, Asians, and others.)
  • Fourth, I multiplied the per-pupil spending at each school times the number of black students, and the number of non-black students, to derive a total spending for blacks and non-blacks at each school.
  • Finally, I added up the black and non-black expenditures for all elementary schools, all middle schools, and all high schools, and then divided the total spending by the number of students in each group to drive an average spending per pupil for both blacks and non-blacks.

While there are exceptions, two generalities hold true in Henrico County: (1) The district spends more per pupil at predominantly black schools and (2) less per pupil at predominantly non-black schools.

Here is the breakdown by school. Click to see larger, more legible images.


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Comments

88 responses to “Debunking the Lie of Unequal Funding, Part II”

  1. NorrhsideDude Avatar
    NorrhsideDude

    I looked at Henrico data myself. I was shocked to see 2 elementary schools had black populations greater than 90%! And then Tuckahoe was 1.4% black. And Tuckahoe gets roughly $1200 less per pupil funding.
    I didn’t think there were almost any schools anywhere in the US with such lack of diversity, but in Henrico?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Didn’t you catch Trump’s “Gleaming White Suburb in the Valley” speech the other night? Well, Henrico is one of those places he was going to protect from nasty city people…

    2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      And one of the major reasons that the schools with large Black populations get more per pupil is probably the majority of the students in those schools qualify for free or reduced-priced lunches and breakfasts.

  2. David T Avatar

    The numbers are a little crazy, but my assumption is that the minority schools need extra support and that’s why there’s more expense associated with them. Saw something that seemed to indicate as much last month about this in the Henrico Citizen: https://www.henricocitizen.com/articles/per-pupil-henrico-schools-spends-well-below-state-average/

  3. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Yep. And across the US in many places where there are many schools in a district – because “neighborhood” schools often and typically reflect the income demographics of the neighborhood they are sited and many blacks continue to be low-income and thus live in low-income housing and go to mostly black schools.

    Upscale neighborhood schools tend to be largely white.

    some schools are mixed …. but many are not.

  4. NorrhsideDude Avatar
    NorrhsideDude

    And geez you would swear Trump was the politician who lived on Confederate Avenue that no one ever seems to bring up.

  5. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Very interesting data. I took an examination of Freeman HS versus Highland Springs HS

    Highland Springs HS: 44% of staff have a BA 53% MA 1% PHD
    10.6% dropout rate 8.7% of staff is Special Education
    20% of staff provisional license
    80% of enrollment is black.
    Designated High Poverty School.

    Freeman HS: 31% of staff BA 68% MA 1% PHD
    5.6% dropout rate 2.7% of staff is Special Education
    5.7 % of staff provisional teaching license.
    12% of enrollment is black
    Designated a Medium Poverty School

    Would taking resources and staff from Freeman and adding to Highland Springs change outcomes?

    1. NorrhsideDude Avatar
      NorrhsideDude

      I have wanted localities to test this in real life. Take the kids from Highland Springs and put them in Freeman and vice versa. Instant change in “equity”. I think it’s worthy of a test. But then again a lot of parents are against busing.

  6. NorrhsideDude Avatar
    NorrhsideDude

    Or I like LarryG’s kids can learn by software approach.. $1200 MacBook + $600 software package + $1200 internet service= $3000 per student.
    We’re all done and we have equity. Plus no more school to prison pipelines. And we can balance the Covid budget.

  7. NorrhsideDude Avatar
    NorrhsideDude

    Even better $200 and Larry says were done. I was willing to provide the deluxe package. Not sure who is writing open source software for all classes in every grade level but SOLD! Equity for $200, who would have thunk!
    And Larry you earlier stated that vouchers and private schools don’t make a difference. I said they did in my experience. And feel free to sue your school district to get them to comply with FAPE…. it works for people like my daughter.

  8. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    what jumps out more than the continuing race-based stuff is the difference in funding per student per school – almost a 2K difference. It matters a lot why there is such a big difference.

    So you need a column for free & reduced because even though you see it as race – it’s really about economically disadvantaged of which blacks are a higher percentage. Economically disadvantaged live in low income households where mom/dad or one parent have poor educations.

    you need a column for Title 1 – which I suspect may explain some of the difference in per pupil per school.

    and you need a column for SOL scores for reading.

  9. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    what jumps out more than the continuing race-based stuff is the difference in funding per student per school – almost a 2K difference. It matters a lot why there is such a big difference.

    So you need a column for free & reduced because even though you see it as race – it’s really about economically disadvantaged of which blacks are a higher percentage. Economically disadvantaged live in low income households where mom/dad or one parent have poor educations.

    you need a column for Title 1 – which I suspect may explain some of the difference in per pupil per school.

    and you need a column for SOL scores for reading.

  10. NorrhsideDude Avatar
    NorrhsideDude

    I looked at Henrico data myself. I was shocked to see 2 elementary schools had black populations greater than 90%! And then Tuckahoe was 1.4% black. And Tuckahoe gets roughly $1200 less per pupil funding.
    I didn’t think there were almost any schools anywhere in the US with such lack of diversity, but in Henrico?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Didn’t you catch Trump’s “Gleaming White Suburb in the Valley” speech the other night? Well, Henrico is one of those places he was going to protect from nasty city people…

      1. NorrhsideDude Avatar
        NorrhsideDude

        So if he’s protecting the “white suburb” who are you calling the nasty city people?

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Well, since he’s threatening to scrap Fair Housing Act, I guess it’s whoever he believes would benefit from his not scraping it.

          1. NorrhsideDude Avatar
            NorrhsideDude

            Nah… you said nasty city people that whites need to be protected from by Trump. Who are the nasty city people you speak of?

          2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            You’re asking someone what Donald Trump meant or thinks? Toss dice.

        2. NorrhsideDude Avatar
          NorrhsideDude

          So Trump said “nasty city people” in his speech about protecting “white suburbs”?
          If so than shame on him.

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Maybe he meant women? He calls women nasty all of the time.

    2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      And one of the major reasons that the schools with large Black populations get more per pupil is probably the majority of the students in those schools qualify for free or reduced-priced lunches and breakfasts.

      1. ksmith8953 Avatar
        ksmith8953

        It is about poverty and not race. Have you ever noticed that Henrico does a pretty good job in high poverty schools? Maybe because they are spending more. Hmmmmmm. Look up Petersburg’s spending per pupil.

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          10% dropout rate at Highland Springs HS. Totally unacceptable.

      2. Dick, that’s a legitimate point. Do the VDOE data include the expense of free and reduced lunches? I asked Charles Pyle, director of media relations. His response:

        “The per-pupil expenditure calculations exclude expenditures that are not directly related to educational services provided to students in pre-kindergarten classes as well as in grades K-12. Excluded expenditures include adult education, community services, non-regular school day programs, capital purchases, debt service, food services, and fund transfers.”

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Interestingly – some of this information IS apparently actually provided to the Federal Dept of Education because this study apparently accesses that data:

          https://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/eval/title-i/school-level-expenditures/school-level-expenditures.pdf Page 29

          ” After controlling for school grade level, the study found that from 42 percent to 46 percent of Title I schools (depending on school grade level) had per-pupil personnel expenditure levels that were below their district’s average for non–Title I schools at the same grade level, and from 19 percent to 24 percent were more than 10 percent below the non–Title I school average. Conversely, 54 percent to 58 percent of Title I schools had expenditures that were above the non–Title I school average, and 29 percent to 39 percent were more than 10 percent above the non–Title I school average. Most Title I districts had at least one Title I school with personnel expenditures below the district average for non–Title I schools at the same grade level (74 percent at the elementary level, 59 percent at the middle school level, and 54 percent at the high school level).”

      3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Not to mention the cost differential of operating a building from 1965 versus one built in 2005.

        I suppose you can only compare if someone breaks it down to the level of instructional costs.

  11. David T Avatar

    The numbers are a little crazy, but my assumption is that the minority schools need extra support and that’s why there’s more expense associated with them. Saw something that seemed to indicate as much last month about this in the Henrico Citizen: https://www.henricocitizen.com/articles/per-pupil-henrico-schools-spends-well-below-state-average/

  12. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Yep. And across the US in many places where there are many schools in a district – because “neighborhood” schools often and typically reflect the income demographics of the neighborhood they are sited and many blacks continue to be low-income and thus live in low-income housing and go to mostly black schools.

    Upscale neighborhood schools tend to be largely white.

    some schools are mixed …. but many are not.

    1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
      TooManyTaxes

      B.S. Langley High School that serves part of McLean and all of Great Falls is 23.68% Asian. I suppose they are honorary white people. About 4% are Hispanic. McLean High School that serves the rest of McLean and part of Vienna is 25.84% Asian and 11.45% Hispanic.

  13. NorrhsideDude Avatar
    NorrhsideDude

    And geez you would swear Trump was the politician who lived on Confederate Avenue that no one ever seems to bring up.

  14. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Very interesting data. I took an examination of Freeman HS versus Highland Springs HS

    Highland Springs HS: 44% of staff have a BA 53% MA 1% PHD
    10.6% dropout rate 8.7% of staff is Special Education
    20% of staff provisional license
    80% of enrollment is black.
    Designated High Poverty School.

    Freeman HS: 31% of staff BA 68% MA 1% PHD
    5.6% dropout rate 2.7% of staff is Special Education
    5.7 % of staff provisional teaching license.
    12% of enrollment is black
    Designated a Medium Poverty School

    Would taking resources and staff from Freeman and adding to Highland Springs change outcomes?

    1. NorrhsideDude Avatar
      NorrhsideDude

      I have wanted localities to test this in real life. Take the kids from Highland Springs and put them in Freeman and vice versa. Instant change in “equity”. I think it’s worthy of a test. But then again a lot of parents are against busing.

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        This was attempted in Charlotte NC back in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The whole busing business further split a community and the issue even ended up in the Supreme Court. They are still talking about this issue down in Charlotte and the outcome numbers for testing and graduation do not reveal improvements.

        I think the next great experiment will be not to move kids around to change outcomes but move the resources and staff around to change outcomes. It will be measurable too. I don’t know what to expect either. Since we are talking about large sums of money it will be a contentious issue.

        1. NorrhsideDude Avatar
          NorrhsideDude

          And with a city like Richmond who is about 1/2 through building their second school in like 50 years, they got one done a few years back, that kind of change will take another 100 years. Although you could argue that whole school district is by far a minority majority school district so the moving around of resources in the district is moot. Unlike Henrico that has obvious differences in enrollment typically east to west.

          1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead V

            Not true. Accomplished and highly credentialed teachers migrate to schools that are well led, better socio-economics, and fewer high poverty school headaches. The best teachers seek out the most favorable school climates. That is exactly what I did in Loudoun County. I moved from Heritage High School to Briar Woods High School. I migrated from a school that you could not give enough to and make a difference to a nationally ranked high school with great leadership and socio-economics that supported excellence.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            James is exactly right. Few teachers that are good teachers want to be in a tough school with a lot of disadvantaged kids when they can be in a “good” school with a lot less stress and worry about getting blamed for low academic performance.

            Unlike the military – good teachers can and do go to where the grass is greener.

            Newbies with little experience and low performing teachers get sent to the low income schools.

            And the reality is – you need the best veteran teachers at the schools with harder-to-teach kids….with learning and reading issues.

            And we do not pay much extra if any for it.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          the thing is – if moving kids around “worked”….. or if it did not…

          in theory it should not have worked if economically-disadvantaged need more/different instruction than found in typical schools.

    2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      The provisional teaching license differential is telling. The provisional teachers are the new teachers. At Highland Springs, one out of every five teachers was a new teacher.

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        They can’t find warm bodies to fill the classroom teaching slots at Highland Springs. In truth this school needs the most elite teachers in Henrico County to best serve the interests of the student body.

  15. NorrhsideDude Avatar
    NorrhsideDude

    Or I like LarryG’s kids can learn by software approach.. $1200 MacBook + $600 software package + $1200 internet service= $3000 per student.
    We’re all done and we have equity. Plus no more school to prison pipelines. And we can balance the Covid budget.

  16. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Almost all kids will grow up to use a computer and to use it to learn.

    How many adults today do that?

    If you have a job – you’re using a computer and you learn how to use software. Hell.. you do that with a cell phone.

    No – you don’t use a MacBook – you use a Chromebook – $100-200 and open market software – and no – you do NOT need an internet connection for a lot of it… it’s SOFTWARE resident on the machine…

    And software CAN and DOES detect the educational level of the student AND configures the lessons appropriate to their level –

    No – it’s not better than a teacher per se – but it’s a hell of lot better than sitting at home with no teacher…

    And more than that – it does allow the parent to take responsibility for their kid – just like you do NorhsideDude.

    Why do you denigrate other ways that parents can help their kids to learn?

    And you get thousands of dollars of taxpayer help with your kid and then you talk about the software “expense” for others kids?

    geeze guy… okay for you but not others?

    I’m betting you use software at home and at school, right?

    The point here is that software works. Not the only resources but a valuable one when other is not there.

  17. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Almost all kids will grow up to use a computer and to use it to learn.

    How many adults today do that?

    If you have a job – you’re using a computer and you learn how to use software. Hell.. you do that with a cell phone.

    No – you don’t use a MacBook – you use a Chromebook – $100-200 and open market software – and no – you do NOT need an internet connection for a lot of it… it’s SOFTWARE resident on the machine…

    And software CAN and DOES detect the educational level of the student AND configures the lessons appropriate to their level –

    No – it’s not better than a teacher per se – but it’s a hell of lot better than sitting at home with no teacher…

    And more than that – it does allow the parent to take responsibility for their kid – just like you do NorhsideDude.

    Why do you denigrate other ways that parents can help their kids to learn?

    And you get thousands of dollars of taxpayer help with your kid and then you talk about the software “expense” for others kids?

    geeze guy… okay for you but not others?

    I’m betting you use software at home and at school, right?

    The point here is that software works. Not the only resources but a valuable one when other is not there.

  18. NorrhsideDude Avatar
    NorrhsideDude

    Even better $200 and Larry says were done. I was willing to provide the deluxe package. Not sure who is writing open source software for all classes in every grade level but SOLD! Equity for $200, who would have thunk!
    And Larry you earlier stated that vouchers and private schools don’t make a difference. I said they did in my experience. And feel free to sue your school district to get them to comply with FAPE…. it works for people like my daughter.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      I do not believe that’s what I said guy. Some private schools do make a difference others do not – the point is it’s your money alone -you can decide but if it’s taxpayer money – more than you decide.

      You say they make a difference. I point out to you that they work for the school system – not you. The school system decides if they are meeting standards and if they are not -they can stop paying them.

      This is what I’d advocate for ANY voucher/private school funded with tax dollars.

      And again – software and laptops and chromebooks are common resources these days. Some is open and some is bought with a school or district or VDOE money.

      Software these days can and does function as a type of tudor for different kids with different learning challenges… why do you think it only works for your kid?

      It can work for a lot of kids… in combination with more traditional person-based teaching.

      The basic premise that distance-learning does not work – is just plain false.

      It works if you use it and adapt it to your situation and it certainly is better than spouting anger at not getting what you want – and just abandoning your responsibility as a parent.

  19. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Not really understanding Jim’s “math”. He seems to be arguing that if there are more blacks in a school than whites that they get more funding.

    DOH!

    And the other thing is – he calls it “The Big Lie” before he even knows !

    take the first elementary school $10985. How in the world can you break that out by race?

    Isn’t that the amount you spend per kid regardless of race?

    1. NorrhsideDude Avatar
      NorrhsideDude

      Larry pull out your $100 Chromebook, open the open source math lesson, and get started…. adults can learn from software too.
      Jim presented the math transparently above. It’s not hard to follow….especially for a guy like you who brags about doing others taxes and the like.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        don’t need a chrome book to see the math is hinky

        It’s not math that is the problem.

        there is no way to allocate spending by race in a school unless you’re doing something bizarre or just plain illegitimate.

        essentially he’s arguing that more money is spent on blacks when there are more blacks.

        You could do the same thing with free and reduced, no?

        so – how about you explain it since you seem so much better educated?

  20. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
    Reed Fawell 3rd

    After nine years on Bacon Rebellion, I long ago got the impression that one can never trust what the Virginia state government, and many other related public institutions in Virginia, such as Dulles Airport, Dulles Toll Authority, and UVA, tells us the public. Indeed, when the truth is negative, or the truth reflects poorly on those issuing the information, it is far more likely that such information is doctored to outright false by intention and/or is false by intentional omission, or has otherwise been contrived to be highly misleading.

    Truth is rare in Virginia. Lies and deceptions are everywhere in Virginia.

  21. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    re:

    ” First, I recorded in my spreadsheet the VDOE figure for total spending per school, as found in its School Quality Profiles.

    yup

    Second, I calculated a per-pupil expenditure for each school, based on the most recent enrollment figure provided in the VDOE database.

    yup – that’s in the school profiles also under finance

    Third, I downloaded the number of black students and non-black students. (Non-black includes whites, Hispanics, Asians, and others.)

    yup

    Fourth, I multiplied the per-pupil spending at each school times the number of black students, and the number of non-black students, to derive a total spending for blacks and non-blacks at each school.

    now what does that give you beyond the amount spent on blacks and non blacks at that school and what significance is it anyhow?

    Finally, I added up the black and non-black expenditures for all elementary schools, all middle schools, and all high schools, and then divided the total spending by the number of students in each group to drive an average spending per pupil for both blacks and non-blacks.

    but you could get this data at the top level anyhow, right?

    you didn’t need to disaggregate the schools then turn around and aggregate it

    but either way – just totally up the total spending then allocating it by how many in each race – what does that do?

    the only thing you are showing is that for the total number of one race the enrollment times the average per student funding – which is basically derived originally but taking the total funding and dividing in by enrollment….

    anyone else see this?

    Now if the school actually showed a per student number for black and then for white – yes.. but they don’t and even if they did – you’d want to know the data underneath… what exactly are you spending additional on – on a race basis?

    1. Inthemiddle Avatar
      Inthemiddle

      LarryG, as I understand your previous posts on this topic, you claim that black students are regularly deprived of equal access to education.

      Jim has provided an analysis that suggests, from a budgetary perspective, black students are allocated an equitable portion of the school budget compared to white students. I presented an analysis for the Alexandria Public School System that suggests that the budget allocated to black students in our school district is not only equitable compared to white students in our school district, but is equivalent to the per student budget of the top tier of school districts in the state.

      You dismiss both analyses, I assume because the achievement gap has not been closed despite these budget allocations. So let’s see your data that demonstrates that the budgetary allocations are inequitable.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I ask the question. I don’t think we really have enough information to make that call.

        We KNOW there are variations on a per school basis on funding but we don’t know – for instance, if most of the black kids who are “behind” are tracked on one class and the white kids on grade – are in a more challenging class or if there is an actual Title 1 reading specialist on staff and there are enough of them to meet the needs of the number of kids that are behind. In some schools with a high number of kids behind – there may well not be enough Title 1 specialists and neither the state or the locality or school district will fund them.

  22. Inthemiddle Avatar
    Inthemiddle

    This seems like a good time to get the culture war blazing again. In an earlier post on education, there was a discussion on the importance of culture.

    For those of you who missed the document posted by the national Museum of African American History and Culture, here’s a great article from the Bulwark -https://thebulwark.com/where-progressives-and-the-alt-right-meet/

    According to the document (now removed from the museum’s website), white culture is characterized by such attributes as –
    * Hard work
    * Delayed gratification
    * Planning for the future
    * the nuclear family
    * Rational thinking
    * Promptness
    * Politeness
    * Decision making
    * Speaking standard English
    * Judeo-Christian heritage

    The most obvious problem with the document is that ‘races’ do not have cultural attributes.

    The next most obvious problem is that these attributes are shared broadly throughout the US by most people, regardless of race.

    Finally, the truly astounding aspect of the document is the implicit assertion that black culture does not share these attributes.

    1. NorrhsideDude Avatar
      NorrhsideDude

      I saw that document last week and was stunned. I found it so crazy I went to the Smithsonian’s website and found it because I couldn’t believe it.
      You could have convinced me that came from a white supremecy recruiting manual.
      My favorite was that “rational thinking” was a trait of whiteness….. unbelievable…. well but the again maybe LarryG has checked his whiteness…

  23. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    re; ” * Speaking standard English
    * Judeo-Christian heritage”

    really?

    1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
      TooManyTaxes

      What’s wrong with speaking standard English. I had ancestors who spoke Irish , French, Swedish and Dutch. Go back a ways and lots of them didn’t read. Yet, they and their descendants had to learn English. Ditto for most people’s ancestors who moved to what is now the United States. Why the change in standards?

  24. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    Jim is still putting up straw men to knock down. His argument in his original post was that the BOE was trying to perpetrate “the big lie” that there is a “meaningful black-white funding gap” for education in Virginia. He then proceeded to show that, on a per pupil basis statewide, funding by race was about the same.

    As I pointed out in my comment, the BOE was not saying that funding for Black students is less, i.e. racist. Rather, the Board’s statement said “resources, in terms of funding and personnel, migrate to schools and localities that disproportionately served fewer students of color.” That is entirely different from what Jim said it was saying.

    And, as I argued before, the main point is not “equal spending” but “equity” in spending. Equity involves distributing resources based on the needs of the recipients. A strong case can be made that students from poorer families, which includes the majority of black and Hispanic families, have more education needs than those from more well-off families. Therefore, if one measures “needs” in terms of “dollars”, then funding for education in Virginia may be equal on the basis of student ethnicity, but it is not equitable because black and Hispanic student have more need and, thus, should get significantly more funding.

    I do take issue with the BOE in its argument that more spending is needed to remedy the achievement gap. After all, as the BOE admits, “The current system of funding for our schools, codified as the Standards of Quality, has not resulted in meaningful changes in educational outcomes.” So, perhaps instead of continuing to try more of something that has not worked, we need to concentrate less on how much differential there is in spending and more on how those dollars are spent.

    1. The Board’s statement said “resources, in terms of funding and personnel, migrate to schools and localities that disproportionately served fewer students of color.”

      Dick, what does it mean when funding and personnel “migrate” to schools and localities with fewer students of color? How can you interpret it to mean anything than that white schools are getting more money and personnel?

      You also bring up the “equity” argument. As you state it, that argument acknowledges that predominantly white schools are not getting more resources. Rather, the problem is that predominantly black schools need more resources, and if they’re not getting them, that’s an inequity. It may or may not be true that black schools need more resources, but that is very different argument. It’s a massive moving of the goal posts. I do give you credit, though, for being one of the very few who are willing to acknowledge the paradigm shift that has taken place.

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        After poking around in the data some more, upon further reflection, I am tending to agree with you or, at least disagree with the BOE’s assessment. It is not accurate to say that resources have migrated to “schools and localities that disproportionately served fewer students of color.” Alexandria, Fairfax County, Arlington, and Loudoun have among the highest per pupil expenditures in the Commonwealth. However, in all these localities, the combined percentage of Black and Hispanic students either exceeds, or is very close to, the percentage of white students. Among the high spending localities, only the city of Falls Church has a predominantly white student population.

        Therefore, the BOE has to look for other explanations for the disparity in closing the achievement gap. If I remember correctly, the achievement gap is not that great in those localities. Richmond, Petersburg, and Norfolk have lower per pupil expenditures than the Northern Virginia localities, but a lot of that can be explained by differences in costs of living. BOE needs to look at how the dollars are being spent more than at the differentials.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        re: ” Rather, the problem is that predominantly black schools need more resources, and if they’re not getting them, that’s an inequity. It may or may not be true that black schools need more resources, but that is very different argument.”

        Here’s the issue. If economically disadvantaged kids – regardless of race need more education resources than “average” schools then we need to know:

        1. – how much more per kid
        2.- how many economically disadvantaged at that school
        3. – multiple 1 x 2 to get how much additional funding that school
        should be getting

        the way that Jim is going about this is basically by taking aggregated numbers that have already been generated (the per student funding per school) – then he’s doing some sort of manipulation that does not look legitimate because there is no data on spending by race –

        which really is a distraction because it’s not really about race – it’s about kids who are “behind” and they typically are the kids from economically disadvantaged families with parents that are also lacking in a good education and don’t parent their kids the way that college-educated parents do.

        The big thing here is this – does Jim really want to get to the bottom on it or does he just want to further his own premises and beliefs but manipulating data to support it?

        If we gave every economically-disadvantaged child a personal tutor – would it produce results?

        We cannot afford that obviously – but that’s in essence what the schools are supposedly trying to do with kids that are “behind” and need “help”.

        Jim has spent time over the years implying that black kids don’t perform as well and that black parents don’t do the things that white parents do to help their kids and that no matter – whatever public education is trying to do – it is failing also.

        Cranky has spent some amount of time on this same narrative but a large part of all of this is the simple fact that parents who earn lower incomes usually are also not well-educated – and they just simply don’t have the time or expertise to do for their kids what people who are well-educated and have good incomes can do.

        It’s about class -not race.

        1. It’s about class -not race.

          Tell that to BLM, Loudoun County, Richmond city schools, Fairfax schools, the VDOE, and all the others fixated on racial disparities.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yep. Agree. Because in large part a majority of the economically disadvantaged are black.

    2. TooManyTaxes Avatar
      TooManyTaxes

      Dick – poor kids and the schools they attend do get more funding. Did you see the sections from the Fairfax County Public Schools’ 2020 budget I posted for Larry. FCPS adds resources (more teachers, more counselors, more social workers, more psychologists, ESL teachers) to schools with kids receiving free or reduced price lunches. To the extent that black or Hispanic kids are poor, they are getting more resources than kids who don’t qualify for lunch assistance. That point cannot be debated.

      We have many elementary schools with class sizes in the teens and many schools with class sizes in the high 20 and low-to-mid 30s. The first group of schools have more specialty teachers (reading and math), more counselors, social workers and psychologists and ESL teachers.

      While RoVA school divisions may not match the amount of extra money spent locally ($53 million of Fairfax County taxes), they have federal Title 1 and state aid for similar schools and students.

      Would a teacher prefer a class of 16 students in a low-income school or 28-36 in a wealthier school? I don’t know. But teachers have considerably fewer resources in higher-income schools in Fairfax County than their counterparts in lower-income schools.

      When can taxpayers demand a effort by students receiving extra resources? Unless society is ready to add unlimited resources to K-12 education, my question needs to be answered.

      Life is about choices. If a student and his/her family choose not to take advantage of extra resources provided in our schools, the student will not fare as well as if those resources were taken advantage of. Some kids will enter the world of work with minimal educations and skills because of choices.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        There is no question that some kids are not going to make it.

        But TMT – you’re talking about 8 year olds whose parents work hard but may not even make the poverty level in wages -and they themselves have at best an 8th grad education themselves.

        that’s not about “choices” and especially so when a larger percentage of kids that their percent demographic have that problem.

        Like NorthSideDue who has been posting today – he is an educated person who probably earns a good income and he gets in the face of the public school to demand that they provide the required resources to his kid.

        Low income, less educated parents are not as good advocates for their kids. If they don’t get the Title 1 resources they are supposed to get – few parents even know much less do what NorthSideDude does.

        If 23 kids in class succeed and 2 do not – that’s life.

        when 21 kids in that class fail to achieve minimum SOL scores – that’s not the same.

        And ALL of us SHOULD be concerned about that – if for no other reason than these kids grow up to be adults dependent on entitlements that drag down resources for other needs.

        We all ought to want to deal with this instead of trying to look the other way and claim it’s a “choice” or race or some such.

        1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
          TooManyTaxes

          Tell me what entitlements people without children get. Medicaid, maybe food stamps.

          The problem with your argument is that it’s always more money. There are many competing needs, health care, infrastructure. We already pour hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars into adding resources for low-income kids. If the results aren’t there, pour in more.

          Human beings have free will and, except in the minds of the woke, are responsible for their actions and choices. Society has a duty to provide extra resources for low-income kids. But we do. Low-income elementary schools in Fairfax County have class sizes around 16-18. Non-low income schools have class sizes in the 20s and in many 5th & 6th grades classes, in the 30s. These same kids have access to extra reading and math teachers. They have greater access to c0unselers, social workers and psychologists. Taxpayers buy them laptops.

          Maybe it’s not more money. Maybe it’s the students, the parent(s), the school administrators. Any kid or their parents who want help can get it.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            re: ” The problem with your argument is that it’s always more money.”

            Indeed. That’s exactly what happens when a kid grows to be an adult and lacks the education needed to get a job that pays sufficient that they don’t need entitlements.

            We decry the costs of Medicaid, Food stamps, TANF, housing vouchers – hundred of thousands of dollars per recipient because they did not get a decent education.

            How do you want to pay? Not whether you want to.

          2. TooManyTaxes Avatar
            TooManyTaxes

            Larry, no amount of extra help for a student will make any difference unless and until that student decides to work with it. It takes a decision by the student and likely her/his parent(s) that education is important and requires a commitment to work at learning.

            We don’t have unlimited resources and there’s no good reason to waste more of them by adding significant resources to public schools unless current levels of resources are used in a productive manner. This is just another way Democrats want to take taxpayer money and feed the teachers unions.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            TMT – everything you say is true about individuals. Is it true about an entire class or race of students so that as a class or race they score lower on tests?

            How do you explain an entire demographic group scoring lower?

          4. TooManyTaxes Avatar
            TooManyTaxes

            Larry, your argument about race or ethnic group needs to address why do whites, blacks and Hispanics score below Asians. A theory needs to address every race and significant ethnic group or it fails.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            re: ” Larry, your argument about race or ethnic group needs to address why do whites, blacks and Hispanics score below Asians. A theory needs to address every race and significant ethnic group or it fails.”

            Most Asians in this country today are like Pakistani’s or Iranians – they are well educated and not poor.

            They have largely not been enslaved in this country and discriminated against for a hundred years or more , Jim Crow, etc.

            The same with hispanics on the reverse. Many are poor and undeereducated just like some whites are.

            None of what you say justifies what is happening to thousands of kids who have normal IQs and are as capable of learning as anyone else – including rich kids that get tutors and private schooling.

            And none of what you say changes the simple fact that for every kid we leave behind – we are going to pay a lifetime of entitlements.

            How do you want to pay? You cannot escape that part so why pretend otherwise?

          6. TooManyTaxes Avatar
            TooManyTaxes

            Larry, you have no evidence to support your claim that immigrants from the Indian subcontinent or the Middle East are not poor. Many aren’t, but many are. If you were well-to-do and successful in your home country, why would you move to the United States? Now many have college degrees but a person is more likely to have little money after obtaining a college degree than be well off.

            Moreover, many SE Asians from places like Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos were basically dirt-poor refugees when they arrived.

            You argue that we pay huge amounts for entitlements. Yet you also argue that much of the Medicaid spending is for nursing home care for people with assets and income. Which is it?

            Many people of all shades and hues, native born and recent immigrant make decisions to take advantage of the educational opportunities. Many don’t.

            A couple years ago, I heard a high-level executive from the Fairfax County Economic Development Authority talk about a significant issue in the Hispanic immigrant community where some parents encourage their sons to quit school and get a job. I suspect there may be similar pressure on their daughters too. These are choices. We may disagree with them but people are free to make choices in this country.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            What I point out TMT is that the income and education of the parents plays an important role and that most legal immigrants these days are well-educated… and not poor.

            Yes, we used to do some poor – like Haitians and Cubans and during the War – refugees but they are not large in number.

            I but in the Fairfax system, for instance, “poor legal refugees” are not large in number at all.

            I’ve made the point before – this is not about race or even culture as much as it is about the education and income level of the parents – because that determines WHERE they live.

            And I continue to ask you why there is such a huge difference in SOL scores between schools in the same school district?

            Why are most kids in one school failing and in other schools most kids pass?

            Finally – we can continue to make excuses and find reasons why but at the end of the day – you’re shelling out tax money for their entitlements. Would you rather do that or shift some of those taxes to more/better education?

            A kid costs 10K a year to educate. As an adult, we spend 30K a year on his entitlements.

            Kick all of this other stuff to the side and talk money.

            how much do you want to spend on entitlements and how much on education or do you just want to feel good about your opinion?

      2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        That is what I mean about equity funding–more resources going to those who need it. The reading level scores for Fairfax are higher for whites and Blacks than for the state as a whole. (Interestingly, the reading level scores for Hispanics in Fairfax is lower that the statewide score.) But, the gap between whites and Blacks is about the same in Fairfax as the state as a whole and it has not improved over the last three years. That is why I say that something different in the way of teaching needs to be done. Some school districts in the state have shown improvement in the reading scores and Lane has said that the state will study what is being differently and determine if it can be replicated. Of course, dealing with the ramifications of the pandemic has taken precedence over everything else.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          re: ” But, the gap between whites and Blacks is about the same in Fairfax as the state as a whole and it has not improved over the last three years. That is why I say that something different in the way of teaching needs to be done. “.

          American kids in general – only about 1/3 of them are “proficient” in reading and that number is much worse for black kids.
          (On the 2015 National Assessment of Educational Progress, only 18 percent of African-American fourth-graders were proficient in reading ) https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/12/11/african-american-students-lagging-far-behind

          think about this – 80% of black kids are NOT proficient in reading in a 21st century economy and we don’t seem to know why.

          1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            That is exactly my point. Something is not working. Do we continue to spend more money without knowing what works and what doesn’t work?

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Well Jim says it’s about money and equity but I agree with you.

            Clearly the data show horrible results but are we sure the money is getting spent for the right stuff?

            Sometimes we spend money on the premise that it has to help and if could be in this case that it does help but it’s not near enough.

            For instance, a school with 80% Free and reduced – 300 kids – will need more than a single Title 1 reading specialist but the Feds are only going to pay for one and some schools actually have none even though they have large numbers of economically disadvantaged.

            What NCLB gave us – was not a solution but instead a window into the data – without this data we’d know almost nothing about the problem.

            Jim’s attitude is that we are spending money but not getting results – and in some other posts – he treads close to implying that these kids because of their family situations cannot be helped.

            Then he complains that when they get to high school they become discipline problems… and disrupt other kids..etc..

            I’m not satisfied with the narrative that “we spend money on this” nor “we spend more on blacks than whites and it does not work” and similar nuanced narratives.

            If we worry about adults with poor educations who live in poverty and then have kids – this is how that happens – we’re just 10 years in front of it when they are 7 or 8 – they get to 18 and they can’t read at a 5th grade level – and they are then into the workforce.

            It’s like we can’t help ourselves from being stupid about it.

  25. NorrhsideDude Avatar
    NorrhsideDude

    Not sure how you get teachers to teach where they obviously don’t want to teach. It’s obvious by the data sets that the best teachers move to the best schools. Unless school districts want to reassign and take the chance of losing teachers.
    I’m also not sure that pulling resource officers is going to help the situation.
    Sounds like the teacher’s union should step up in the name of equity.

    1. MAdams Avatar

      A teacher isn’t going to want to put their time and effort into lesson plans for children who don’t want to learn. They became a teacher for a reason, and someone that doesn’t care to participate isn’t going to keep them around.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      so the reward for becoming a good teacher is to force them into schools that have huge achievement gap issues?

      and why would they do that as an individual or even a group?

      The problem we have is three-fold:

      1. – neighborhood schools in low-income neighborhoods where a significant number of households are in or near poverty and the parents themselves have substandard educations.

      2. – The schools in those neighborhoods have a significant number of kids who are economically disadvantaged, get free & reduced lunches and are “behind” academically from the time they enter school.

      3.. Most teachers with a choice will not go to those schools to teach – there is a significant possibility that it could end their career as a teacher.
      The result is that the school systems recruit new teachers to post to those schools and offer existing marginal teachers a post of last resort.

  26. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Mr. Bacon and Mr. Dick have really distilled an important point about equity. The worst schools need the best resources. What are the best resources in a school division? Is it money? Fancy chrome books? Sleek new buildings? No indeed, it is the best teachers. Most of a school’s budget is tied up in payroll of the teachers. The only way to move the needle on achievement is to reallocate resources from the top shelf schools to the bottom shelf schools. School division leaders are going to need to move the best teachers out of their comfort zones and into the front lines of the black board jungle. There is going to be a push back against this. I don’t even know if you can make the best teachers migrate into a situation like Highland Springs HS. Some would accept the challenge. Most would find work in the next county over where the oasis is located. But if you want to really change outcomes that might do the job. It would take a lot of guts and perhaps incentives from schools boards and superintendents to pull this off.

  27. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Mr. Bacon and Mr. Dick have really distilled an important point about equity. The worst schools need the best resources. What are the best resources in a school division? Is it money? Fancy chrome books? Sleek new buildings? No indeed, it is the best teachers. Most of a school’s budget is tied up in payroll of the teachers. The only way to move the needle on achievement is to reallocate resources from the top shelf schools to the bottom shelf schools. School division leaders are going to need to move the best teachers out of their comfort zones and into the front lines of the black board jungle. There is going to be a push back against this. I don’t even know if you can make the best teachers migrate into a situation like Highland Springs HS. Some would accept the challenge. Most would find work in the next county over where the oasis is located. But if you want to really change outcomes that might do the job. It would take a lot of guts and perhaps incentives from schools boards and superintendents to pull this off.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      What James said.

      the “resources” that are most important are skilled teachers.

  28. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    here’s another look from low to high:

    can anyone explain the 60 point difference between
    the highest and lowest SOL reading scores in the same
    school system – Henrico?

    School Name 3rd grade SOL reading

    Glen Lea Elementary 31.51
    Laburnum Elementary 40.91
    Dumbarton Elementary 41.25
    Fair Oaks Elementary 41.67
    Elizabeth Holladay Elementary 46.59
    Longdale Elementary 47.89
    Harold Macon Ratcliffe Elementary 48
    .
    . 35 school in between
    .
    Nuckols Farm Elementary 90
    David A. Kaechele Elementary 90.79
    Twin Hickory Elementary 91.09
    Rivers Edge Elementary 94.44 .
    Shady Grove Elementary 94.83

  29. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Too many ways to build inequities into the system while covering them over in the bottom line accounting. And that would be called “systemic racism”.

    1. MAdams Avatar

      “Nancy_Naive | July 22, 2020 at 5:38 am | Reply
      Too many ways to build inequities into the system while covering them over in the bottom line accounting. And that would be called “systemic racism”.”

      Spoken like someone who’s hasn’t been able to process any of the data provided. Inequalities affect those who live in poverty, poverty doesn’t know a race. Perhaps you should actually listen instead of being so self-opinionated.

  30. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Too many ways to build inequities into the system while covering them over in the bottom line accounting. And that would be called “systemic racism”.

  31. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    I keep asking this question – and that is if Jim went and pulled down the SOL scores for all the elementary schools in Henrico -why would they be different for the different schools – sometimes a lot different.

    How would that be explained?

    One can see how individual kids might vary in their performance but how does an entire school vary from another school – say 400 kids in total in one school versus 400 kids total in another school?

    For instance, for all the Henrico Elementary Schools here are the
    SOL scores for 3rd grade reading: What explains these really significant
    differences if there is a “big lie” about resources and funding?

    School Name Pass Rate
    Arthur Ashe Jr. Elementary 59.15
    Cashell Donahoe Elementary 48.78
    Chamberlayne Elementary 56.92
    Charles M. Johnson Elementary 48.61
    Colonial Trail Elementary 88.79
    Crestview Elementary 67.35
    David A. Kaechele Elementary 90.79
    Dumbarton Elementary 41.25
    Echo Lake Elementary 78.41
    Elizabeth Holladay Elementary 46.59
    Fair Oaks Elementary 41.67
    Gayton Elementary 89.53
    George F. Baker Elementary 68.52
    Glen Allen Elementary 80.34
    Glen Lea Elementary 31.51
    Greenwood Elementary 81.05
    Harold Macon Ratcliffe Elementary 48
    Harvie Elementary 68.13
    Henry D. Ward Elementary 53.33
    Highland Springs Elementary 49.33
    Jackson Davis Elementary 87.67
    Jacob L. Adams Elementary 59.26
    Laburnum Elementary 40.91
    Lakeside Elementary 50
    Longdale Elementary 47.89
    Maude Trevvett Elementary 72.22
    Maybeury Elementary 75.96
    Montrose Elementary 58.46
    Nuckols Farm Elementary 90
    Pemberton Elementary 83.33
    Pinchbeck Elementary 73.27
    R.C. Longan Elementary 76.71
    Ridge Elementary 57.14
    Rivers Edge Elementary 94.44
    Ruby F. Carver Elementary 74.36
    Sandston Elementary 75
    Seven Pines Elementary 70.42
    Shady Grove Elementary 94.83
    Short Pump Elementary 85.09
    Skipwith Elementary 61.8
    Springfield Park Elementary 82.61
    Three Chopt Elementary 72
    Tuckahoe Elementary 89.25
    Twin Hickory Elementary 91.09
    Varina Elementary 61.54

  32. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    I keep asking this question – and that is if Jim went and pulled down the SOL scores for all the elementary schools in Henrico -why would they be different for the different schools – sometimes a lot different.

    How would that be explained?

    One can see how individual kids might vary in their performance but how does an entire school vary from another school – say 400 kids in total in one school versus 400 kids total in another school?

    For instance, for all the Henrico Elementary Schools here are the
    SOL scores for 3rd grade reading: What explains these really significant
    differences if there is a “big lie” about resources and funding?

    School Name Pass Rate
    Arthur Ashe Jr. Elementary 59.15
    Cashell Donahoe Elementary 48.78
    Chamberlayne Elementary 56.92
    Charles M. Johnson Elementary 48.61
    Colonial Trail Elementary 88.79
    Crestview Elementary 67.35
    David A. Kaechele Elementary 90.79
    Dumbarton Elementary 41.25
    Echo Lake Elementary 78.41
    Elizabeth Holladay Elementary 46.59
    Fair Oaks Elementary 41.67
    Gayton Elementary 89.53
    George F. Baker Elementary 68.52
    Glen Allen Elementary 80.34
    Glen Lea Elementary 31.51
    Greenwood Elementary 81.05
    Harold Macon Ratcliffe Elementary 48
    Harvie Elementary 68.13
    Henry D. Ward Elementary 53.33
    Highland Springs Elementary 49.33
    Jackson Davis Elementary 87.67
    Jacob L. Adams Elementary 59.26
    Laburnum Elementary 40.91
    Lakeside Elementary 50
    Longdale Elementary 47.89
    Maude Trevvett Elementary 72.22
    Maybeury Elementary 75.96
    Montrose Elementary 58.46
    Nuckols Farm Elementary 90
    Pemberton Elementary 83.33
    Pinchbeck Elementary 73.27
    R.C. Longan Elementary 76.71
    Ridge Elementary 57.14
    Rivers Edge Elementary 94.44
    Ruby F. Carver Elementary 74.36
    Sandston Elementary 75
    Seven Pines Elementary 70.42
    Shady Grove Elementary 94.83
    Short Pump Elementary 85.09
    Skipwith Elementary 61.8
    Springfield Park Elementary 82.61
    Three Chopt Elementary 72
    Tuckahoe Elementary 89.25
    Twin Hickory Elementary 91.09
    Varina Elementary 61.54

  33. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    here’s another look from low to high:

    can anyone explain the 60 point difference between
    the highest and lowest SOL reading scores in the same
    school system – Henrico?

    School Name 3rd grade SOL reading

    Glen Lea Elementary 31.51
    Laburnum Elementary 40.91
    Dumbarton Elementary 41.25
    Fair Oaks Elementary 41.67
    Elizabeth Holladay Elementary 46.59
    Longdale Elementary 47.89
    Harold Macon Ratcliffe Elementary 48
    .
    . 35 school in between
    .
    Nuckols Farm Elementary 90
    David A. Kaechele Elementary 90.79
    Twin Hickory Elementary 91.09
    Rivers Edge Elementary 94.44 .
    Shady Grove Elementary 94.83

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