Cruise Subsidy More Important Than Tax Relief?

What is this cruise ship doing in a story about Virginia’s budget and tax fight? Read and learn.

The Richmond Times-Dispatch has obtained and released the most recent negotiating offer from Democrats in the Senate as the standoff between the two political parties over the state budget continues.  It is contained in an on-line article that doesn’t appear to have made it into the print edition yet.

The head House of Delegates negotiator, Appropriations Committee Chairman Barry Knight, was trying to arrange a face-to-face negotiating session with Senate counterparts for Monday. On Wednesday, most of the key legislators will be at the Capitol as Governor Glenn Youngkin (R) releases the formal report on the revenue and expenses for the last fiscal year.

There are two quick takeaways from the document, which for all we know is already obsolete. First, the two sides are really not far apart anymore when you set this side by side with a similar document produced by Knight a couple of weeks ago. Second, the polling done on the topic by Virginia Commonwealth University and questioned in this post was indeed absolute fiction and nonsense.

You will search the Senate document in vain for any reference to $1 billion for “building or repairing schools or other similar projects.” There is absolutely no mention of building or repairing anything school-related, although dollars do flow into more general education categories. The poll authors made up that school construction claim to juice their poll results.

And, as was pointed out in the criticism of the poll, there is not much of an either-or contrast between the two sides of the debate. At this point the positions are very close, so close that compromise should be a simple matter and would be if the Democrats didn’t hate Youngkin more than they love their constituents or care about good governance.

Both the House and the Senate have proposed that the biggest benefit to taxpayers from the state’s embarrassing level of surplus cash come in the form of a one-time cash rebate. Both surely intend to get it distributed before the November election. This is not tax reform. The Senate’s latest offer is revealed to be $200 per person or $400 per couple, which returns more than $900 million to those who paid income taxes (with no reference to how much they paid.)

Both the House and the Senate have also proposed an increase in the standard deduction for this and for future tax years. Here the House has the better offer, with the Senate only offering to give individuals an additional $500 in deduction, and a couple $1,000. That amounts to, at best, a $57.50 tax cut. But it is something that extends into future years, which is what Democrats claimed they opposed doing. Both houses also endorse a change in a business interest deduction with long term impact.

The Democrat term sheet estimates the future year impact of the tax provisions it proposes would be $180 million per year. Knight’s letter from July puts the long-term impact of his proposal at $340 million in future years.

That’s it? The entire set of second-year amendments and other key elements of the FY 2024 budget are hanging fire over a $160 million difference. This year’s General Fund revenue was more than $25 billion. The Democrats are holding everything in the budget hostage because they want to keep an additional six-tenths of one percent (0.006) or less of future revenue from flowing back to taxpayers.

Look though the long list of spending decisions that the Senate included in its negotiation paper, a list of details that the House side has so far omitted. As you look through it, remember those are amounts of increased spending over the existing base budget.

There is $410 million in there for transportation projects that arguably shouldn’t even be part of the General Fund budget. Wednesday’s end-of-year finance report may also include a yet-undisclosed surplus in the non-general fund transportation accounts.

Some taxpayers will look through the rest of the list and nod assent, happy to see those items funded with dollars that otherwise could have been used to lower their taxes. Others will see items they consider frivolous or unnecessary. What all should recognize is this is classic budget politics at its best (or worst), with all the popular themes touched: employee raises, library grants, small anti-crime initiatives, Medicaid provider payments and capital projects sprinkled around numerous legislative districts.

I’m sure lines are already forming for the tourist cruises out of Yorktown to be subsidized by $8.5 million in state funding the Senate proposes. Bets on whether that is a one-time grant or whether it becomes a permanent annual ask, like so many little items in the budget? In fairness, the same proposal may be in the House package as well.


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32 responses to “Cruise Subsidy More Important Than Tax Relief?”

  1. William O'Keefe Avatar
    William O’Keefe

    The Ds want to make the case that the state budget is too small. Well, let them do it and simultaneously focus attention of any initiatives underway that will improve efficiency–which will lower costs. Second, they need to explain why after 20 and 21 when Ds controlled both the House and Senate, they didn’t do more to invest in school physical facilities. Where’s the plan? Finally, that is taxpayer money that they want to keep. In November, voters can let them know if keeping it is the voters preference.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      “Second, they need to explain why after 20 and 21 when Ds controlled both the House and Senate, they didn’t do more to invest in school physical facilities.”

      ‘Cause nobody was in them?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        hey…. that sounds like a “trick” answer… 😉

      2. William O'Keefe Avatar
        William O’Keefe

        Silly answer. They weren’t going to be empty forever and it does take time to plan construction projects.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Was that an answer? Are we going Socratic?

      3. It’s actually easier to renovate a school when there are no students or teachers in it.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Yes, that’s true. Why in Dallas, they put a new roof on one school after it was condemned.

  2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “The Democrats are holding everything in the budget hostage because they want to keep an additional six-tenths of one percent (0.006) or less of future revenue from flowing back to taxpayers.”

    That blame flows the other way you know…

  3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “Cruise Subsidy More Important Than Tax Relief?”

    vs

    “In fairness, the same proposal may be in the House package as well.”

    In fairness, you did put a “?” at the end of your (clickbait?) headline… smh…

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Well, as you said, it can flow both ways. I’ve said before that the House has moved so far from the initial effort that it no longer matters much. More ego than substance now, as often happens with budget fights.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Virginia GA version of Kabuki theater….

  4. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    I was under the impression that the $400 million was for I-64 – out of the GF not from transportation fund.

    1. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      So, Larry – you are a big believer in using expensive tools as a funding source for major highway projects. Will the new I-64 be tolled?

      1. how_it_works Avatar
        how_it_works

        “Will the new I-64 be tolled?”

        Is it in Northern Virginia?

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          Exactly right.

          NoVa has been sold out by The Imperial Clown Show in Richmond. And the transplanted prog-libs who fled the cities they ruined before coming to NoVa are only too happy to keep voting tax and spend politicians into office from NoVa.

          “12. Express Toll Lanes (I-95), US
          Annual Revenue: $724 million

          The I-95 Express Toll Lanes in Northern Virginia make an approximate revenue of $724 million, drawn from high traffic volume. When combined with dynamic pricing strategies that adjust tolls based on real-time traffic conditions to maintain free-flowing travel, I-95 proves to be one of the most profitable toll roads in the world.”

          Good for Transurban. Bad for the cost of living in NoVa.

          https://finance.yahoo.com/news/15-most-profitable-toll-roads-171955557.html#:~:text=The%20Pennsylvania%20Turnpike%2C%20with%20an,toll%20road%20in%20the%20world.

          Slow Joe Biden will keep NoVa propped up for as long as he holds office.

          https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/employee-relations/pages/biden-calls-for-federal-workers-to-return-to-the-office.aspx

          However, the Repubs have different plans …

          https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11772197/Ron-DeSantis-wants-federal-offices-D-C.html

          I should be out of NoVa within 18 months.

          Anybody with any sense will get the heck out of NoVa if they can – even all those liberal government workers because that’s the nature of liberals – destroy an area by electing idiotic politicians who implement idiotic policies. Then, move on.

          Ask SanFrancisco.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Ron DeSantis? More and more folks think he is a JOKE! That guy is toast. The more people see of him, the less they like him and for good reason!

            NoVa – DJ of all people since he travels … should KNOW that whether it’s NoVa or Charlotte or Atlanta or Houston or LA or Seattle or Chicago – they ALL have very similar traffic issues and much of it boils down to people who want to drive solo anytime they want no matter congestion levels.

            We fix this problem for the airlines… Few folks fly “solo’… they fly in mass transit AND they shift their flying times according to congestion levels … some are willing to pay more to fly at busy times, others choose to shift to a less busy time for less money… etc…

            People make sane decisions when they fly but when they drive, it’s the opposite….

            Yes…by all means FLEE NoVa but you better get out beyond the exurban counties and away from I-95 64 and 81 if you truly want to escape traffic and by that time – you also have no amenities like you have in NoVa. Make your choice! People do it. Some are very happy. Others still complain… they want nirvana or else they’ll whine!

          2. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I find plenty of reasons to dislike Northern Virginia, none of which have anything to do with traffic congestion.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        what “expensive tools”? Ezpass?

        I’m a believe in congestion tolls – yes in corridors where there are peak hour flows and the toll lanes allow free tolls for HOV-3.

        From what I understand, I-64 will not be tolled. It was considered but finally nixed and then separate funding was voted direct out of the budget – as opposed to it going into the transportation fund.

        They thought about tolls for I-81 also and discarded the idea.

        The new tunnels in Tidewater ARE going to be tolled!

        The thing not understood about I-95, you cannot widen the lanes unless you rebuild the bridges, overpasses and interchanges. It cost more than a billion dollars to do this and there was not enough money to do it so they decided to have Transurban pay for all the infrastructure costs up front and get repaid from tolls.

        If you don’t toll I-95 , just widen it for “free”, it will just attract more and more traffic and truly be gridlocked even more so than now.

        We have too many people who want to drive their cars solo at rush hour and if you build more free lanes, more of them will do so.

        Dont blame VDOT. Blame the folks who want to drive solo without regard to congestion. Dumb behavior if you ask me.

        If you drive the SAME TRIP every day, you ought to be able to carpool and/or ride transit… like I did for 34 years.

        If you drive that same trip every day by yourself… then you’re part of the problem IMO.

        1. I think he mistyped “tolls”…

  5. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    We talk billions this and billions that and then we get ” That amounts to, at best, a $57.50 tax cut”.

    If we do what the GOP wants – what would it be ? A lot more?

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      I think when this all started the House was going to add another $4-5,000 per couple to the standard deduction, so four to five times that.

      And yes, this Senate term sheet has money for the interstates projects coming from the GF. Again, the House may have proposed the same.

  6. Might we do more to address the teacher shortage?

    “As of April 2023, the Staffing and Vacancy Report tool shows 3,573 teacher vacancies for the 2022-23 school year.”

    https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/teaching-in-virginia/turning-the-tide

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Do you think the extra 2% in salary (and that’s only the state share of the raise) will move that needle? That is definitely something that both the House and Senate agreed upon all along, but got tangled in the tax argument. Really, there is almost no either-or disagreement left, it is all now degrees.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Folks need to keep in mind that at the state level, they largely pay for SOQ positions, right? (I think).

        Perhaps it might be useful to know how many/what percent of the staff shortages are SOQ?

        If we’re talking about non-SOQ positions, does the state budget do much for them?

        We have “shortages” at the county school level – but they are not SOQ (teacher aids/paras), so they’re funded primarily with local dollars and right now, they’re not filling them.. to save money.

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Not unless you can solve the problem worldwide. It’s a seriously large shortage. With a lot of bucks you may be able to hire them away, but not for long.

      We need a “Northern Exposure” type of solution. We pay for your college ride and you commit to X years of teaching.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        …works for the military… no…?

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          gets back to one-time money vs recurring money…

          it’s more than one year’s budget.

          the money has to be there for the increase for way more than one year.

          For the military, a huge percent of the money goes for salaries – for active duty personnel but also for private sector contractors providing services and weapon systems to the military.

          One might wonder, with all the shift to more autonomous systems, why the military is not downsizing on personnel.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        re: college debt paid for by X years commitment to teaching…

        This is such an obvious idea that apparently is not being done.

        What is the reason it’s not being done and is it something the State could do better than local school districts?

      3. It’s a real problem, as there’s no way to have a good education system without quality teachers.

        In the current environment, even if positions are filled, it may not be the best candidates. It’s hard for schools to be selective. A warm body with the appropriate credential can get a job somewhere.

  7. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Don’t get me wrong. I love Yorktown. The Pub is almost a good as was Fuller’s (Eat Dirt Cheap) in it’s heyday. There’s some cute shoppes (classy, no?) near the bridge and a monument made of cement at the top of a hill that’ll kill the average 70-year old American not in a golf cart. If you’re capable of walking 3 miles, you can see all of Yorktown in an hour including time for selfies. Now that said, add in some Segways and trollies around the Battlefield, you might get some folks to enjoying the place for a day.

    Don’t know much about these cruise boats, e.g., where they are coming from, or where they go to after they stop in Yorktown, but it’s at least 6 hours from Hampton Roads and 15 to anywhere else, and at least a 4-hour round trip detour to deviate from a Norfolk to Baltimore course.

    But, ya gotta spend money to make money. FWIW, $85.M? That’s $1 per Virginian.

    1. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      ” … $85.M? That’s $1 per Virginian.”

      There are 85 million Virginians? I think you meant $8.5m.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Pesky decimals. I did.

        Sadly for Virginia, quaint waterfront towns are all in Maryland. There are a couple in Va, but Maryland has done well to keep theirs pristine.

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