by James C. Sherlock

More than eleven months ago I wrote an essay titled, “The Legal Corruption of (Virginia’s Certificate of Public Need) COPN.” That system needs overhaul, not adjustment, and the people of Hampton Roads need help.  The Governor needs to lead in both efforts.

Today I offer the third in a series (first two here and here ) of essays providing background and potential future solutions to the closure of Bon Secours DePaul Hospital in Norfolk.

This is the story of the public, state-sponsored execution of DePaul and a simultaneous attempt to create a bleak future for Bon Secours in Hampton Roads.

COPN mortally wounded that hospital in 2008. It lasted until now as Sentara gnawed away at it  Its death was announced this past week. Pending is how Bon Secours will look at its future in Hampton Roads.

Where healthcare services in South Hampton Roads stand now

With the closure of DePaul’s inpatient facilities and emergency room, Sentara has five general hospitals serving South Hampton Roads’ 1.2 million people: two in Norfolk, two in Virginia Beach and one in Suffolk. Portsmouth’s civilian hospital is Bon Secours Maryview. Chesapeake’s general hospital is state-chartered Chesapeake Regional Medical Center.

Hospital services in the two largest cities in Virginia, Virginia Beach and Norfolk, are entirely under the control of Sentara.

Attorney General Mark Herring

I just opened the Sentara website and it announced that Sentara had 264 locations of care near my home Virginia Beach. They operate hospitals, outpatient care facilities, imaging centers, home care services, emergency facilities, primary care offices, therapy and fitness operations, schools, urgent care facilities, specialists offices and senior care facilities.

Sentara’s captive HMO and insurer Optima is powerful in Hampton Roads and makes life difficult for Sentara competitors. Finally, Sentara controls a large percentage of referrals through its massive network and of course has its own MyChart service, making the use of facilities and professionals other than Sentara;s involve a lot of phone calls.

As a direct result, Sentara’s five south Hampton Roads hospitals made 87% of the operating revenue of the entire corporation in 2017.

On the flip side, Maryview in Portsmouth and Chesapeake Regional remain under constant pressure from Sentara, and combined have lost money for years on their hospital operations here.

Virginia has both and Antitrust Act and and an attorney general. Perhaps those two can get together on this.

How was DePaul, and with it Bon Secours in South Hampton Roads, mortally wounded?

ex-DePaul Hospital

The most infamous COPN decision in state history scandalized Virginia in March of 2008. It awarded two hospital certificates to Sentara and denied three parallel applications of Bon Secours on the same date.

Bon Secours, acknowledging that DePaul was in trouble, had developed what it called a “bold new vision” for health care in Hampton Roads, one that would bring a choice of health care providers to Virginia Beach and Suffolk, which were then served solely by Sentara hospitals.

It needed success in the COPN process to execute that vision. It never had a chance.

Bon Secours requested COPN approval for redistributing DePaul’s 238 remaining licensed beds among a new 114-bed hospital in the Princess Anne section of Virginia Beach, a 60-bed hospital in northern Suffolk and a new, downsized 64-bed facility at DePaul’s location on Granby Street. Approval of that proposal, as was documented by Bon Secours in its application, was absolutely necessary to secure the financial future of Bon Secours in South Hampton Roads.

In March 2008, the Deputy Virginia Health Commissioner acting for his boss, an appointee from Sentara who recused herself, decided there wasn’t a public need for the new hospitals Bon Secours proposed, just for the ones that Sentara wanted.

He also determined that the replacement hospital left at DePaul would be too small and have too few services to meet the needs of Norfolk’s residents. Good call.

That decision sealed the Sentara monopoly in South Hampton Roads and ensured the fiscal distress of Bon Secours here. There is no evidence that Portsmouth’s Bon Secours Maryview will not suffer DePaul’s fate.

Sentara’s winning COPN proposals in 2008

In the same group of March 2008 COPN decisions, Sentara received state approval to relocate its Bayside Hospital beds to build a new 120-bed hospital in the Princess Anne section of Virginia Beach.

Sentara had bought Bayside from a competitor in 1991 to expand its monopoly. But Bayside was not as profitable as wished. Those beds were “re-located” far from the minority populations Bayside had served.

ex-Bayside Hospital

Sentara also got permission to expand Sentara Obici Hospital in Suffolk by 30 beds.

Both DePaul and Bon Secours in Hampton Roads were mortally wounded. The death of DePaul was announced last week.

Sentara’s near-total control of COPN decisions

For those who think the COPN professional staff was wrong, remember the political appointee Health Commissioner is the COPN decision authority, not his or her staff.

I made a study of COPN application decisions in Hampton Roads 2001 – 2018 from the official report of those decisions in October 2019.

The Commissioner has overturned the recommendations of the professional staff of the Division of Certificate of Public Need (DOCPN) in Sentara’s favor 12 times in just 61 applications and sustained denials only twice, resulting in a 95% Sentara approval rate over that period.

The decisions overturned in its favor have been worth billions of dollars to Sentara.

Sentara’s monopoly is also a labor issue

People may think of COPN as something that only affects corporations. They are shortsighted if they do.

Consider your options as a physician or a nurse or medical technician in Norfolk or Virginia Beach in which Sentara controls all of the hospitals, nearly all of the more complex diagnostic equipment that requires COPN approval, and most of the doctors practices and thus referrals.

You can try to go your own way, but good luck. Can you stand the pressure? If you do something that Sentara does not like, what position are you in?

If you go to work for Sentara, how about salaries? Who has the whip hand there?

COPN algorithms and DePaul

I made a suggestion the Governor and local officials offer incentives to Mayo Clinic or Cleveland Clinic or both to take over the DePaul Hospital facilities and make them their own.

Sentara would hate that so, historically, there is evidence to lead us to expect that the Health Commissioner may oppose it.

Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic are rated the two top hospital systems in America and perhaps the world. Their track records show that they will not only take wonderful care of local patients and contribute mightily to regional public health improvements, but also attract patients from all over the mid-Atlantic.

No existing COPN demand model will show a “need” for DePaul hospital of the size that will be necessary to attract a world-class new owner because COPN does not consider demand from outside the local service area. So a Commissioner who wants a reason to reject the project will have one.

That will have to be settled before any discussions can be held with any potential buyer of De Paul, much less the two giants of American healthcare who will very likely want to expand, not contract DePaul’s current capacity.

What is to be done?

Reading all of this, is there any Virginian who thinks COPN has served the people of Hampton Roads well?

I urge the following actions:

  1. If we must have COPN, then the Governor should propose and the General Assembly legislate that it be administered by an independent regulatory agency on the Maryland example. The State Corporation Commission could host it.
  2. Settle the Mayo Clinic/Cleveland Clinic COPN demand modeling issue immediately.
  3. Take state action to break up the near-total Sentara monopoly and its oppressive business activities in South Hampton Roads. That is the Attorney General’s job, and he must act.

Finally, I recommend every doctor, nurse, medical technician and other adult in South Hampton Roads contact his/her General Assembly representatives and the offices of the Governor, his Secretary of Health and Human Resources  and the Attorney General’s Antitrust Office to urge the three actions above. Send them a link to this essay if you wish.

Time to act.


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Comments

44 responses to “COPN Scores a Kill”

  1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    There’s always Riverside… but the two hour wait at the HRBT in the ambulance may be a tad costly.

  2. Why aren’t the citizens of Hampton Roads up in arms about the Sentara monopoly?

    Where is the Virginian-Pilot? (Writing stories about housing discrimination and literally apologizing for the whiteness of its reporters. https://thevirginiastar.com/2021/01/24/virginia-newspaper-apologizes-for-whiteness-before-reporting-on-discrimination/)

    Where are the region’s elected officials?

    Where are the citizens groups?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Where? Waiting for Sentara to give them their vaccines.

  3. Why aren’t the citizens of Hampton Roads up in arms about the Sentara monopoly?

    Where is the Virginian-Pilot? (Writing stories about housing discrimination and literally apologizing for the whiteness of its reporters. https://thevirginiastar.com/2021/01/24/virginia-newspaper-apologizes-for-whiteness-before-reporting-on-discrimination/)

    Where are the region’s elected officials?

    Where are the citizens groups?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Where? Waiting for Sentara to give them their vaccines.

  4. does China even have COPN
    like a room full a bureaucrats can decide “need”

  5. does China even have COPN
    like a room full a bureaucrats can decide “need”

  6. LarrytheG Avatar

    Hmm.. You see this as a monopoly: ” the Sentara website and it announced that Sentara had 264 locations of care near my home Virginia Beach. They operate hospitals, outpatient care facilities, imaging centers, home care services, emergency facilities, primary care offices, therapy and fitness operations, schools, urgent care facilities, specialists offices and senior care facilities.”

    I see this as a business model that serves the community and the bar that would-be competitors have to meet to compete.

    I don’t want to see Mayo come in and cherry pick the lucrative services and leave Sentra to have to figure out some other way to pay for those community facilities or close them in which case, the community gets cheaper high dollar services for some things but loses the community medical facilities.

    The only way Mayo or others should be incentivized to come is if they too are going to provide community-based health care services (like UVA also does).

    UVA and Sentra use the high dollar elective services to essentially subsidize the unprofitable community services. I see the idea of brining in Mayo as essentially taking away the method that Sentra uses to pay for community services.

    Am I wrong?

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      Have a nice rest of your day.

    2. Larry: “Am I wrong?

      You are dead wrong.

  7. LarrytheG Avatar

    Hmm.. You see this as a monopoly: ” the Sentara website and it announced that Sentara had 264 locations of care near my home Virginia Beach. They operate hospitals, outpatient care facilities, imaging centers, home care services, emergency facilities, primary care offices, therapy and fitness operations, schools, urgent care facilities, specialists offices and senior care facilities.”

    I see this as a business model that serves the community and the bar that would-be competitors have to meet to compete.

    I don’t want to see Mayo come in and cherry pick the lucrative services and leave Sentra to have to figure out some other way to pay for those community facilities or close them in which case, the community gets cheaper high dollar services for some things but loses the community medical facilities.

    The only way Mayo or others should be incentivized to come is if they too are going to provide community-based health care services (like UVA also does).

    UVA and Sentra use the high dollar elective services to essentially subsidize the unprofitable community services. I see the idea of brining in Mayo as essentially taking away the method that Sentra uses to pay for community services.

    Am I wrong?

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      Have a nice rest of your day.

    2. Larry: “Am I wrong?

      You are dead wrong.

  8. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    There’s always Riverside… but the two hour wait at the HRBT in the ambulance may be a tad costly.

  9. LarrytheG Avatar

    So, here is my thinking.

    It’s claimed that medicare and medicaid do not pay the actual cost of providing the care, that whoever accepts their payment are taking a loss. Yet, a good percentage of people have Medicare and Medicaid and hospitals and other providers will accept them for payment even though they lose money on the transaction.

    How do they make up these losses?

    It appears to me that some (maybe more and more?) hospitals have moved to a business model where they sell profitable services and elective procedures for a tidy profit then use some of that profit to offset their losses on other patients who have Medicare and Medicaid.

    This type of practice is not unheard of in the business world. Walmart as well as the auto manufacturers are said to bump the profit on the in-demand cars and products so they can essentially sell others at a loss.

    Walmart sells 2 liter cokes for a whopping 100-200% markup while their milk is said to be sold at cost or less. Ford will get 5-10K profit on a big Ford Pickup , yet their gas-sipping compacts (that help them meet their CAFE standards) are sold at cost or at a loss. I read somewhere that Toyota’s Prius is sold almost at cost.

    How likely is it that Mayo would accept Medicare or Medicaid reimbursements for their services? How likely is it that some of
    the services Mayo offers are not covered at all with Medicare/Medicaid?

    How likely is it that Mayo would stand up community clinics for primary care in the area that DePaul served and accept Medicare/Medicaid such that those satellite facilities are unprofitable and may run at a loss?

    More than likely, Mayo would compete on the profitable services and just decline to provide services that are unprofitable.

    And if Sentra was going to compete with Mayo, they’d be forced to cut their prices also – but if they did not , they’d also be cutting funding of their less profitable services. Over time, they’d have to close down the unprofitable satellite places.

    where am I going wrong – seriously….. ????

    how about it IZZO ?

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      You neglected my advice.

    2. sherlockj Avatar

      I decided to wait until after dinner to respond, Larry. I have grown to understand you, but you keep pecking away until I am forced to answer lest someone read my column and be diverted by your comments.

      Sometimes, and this is one of those, you comment on things for which you have no background. OK, it happens. You are not the only one.

      But you take it to another level.

      In this and other cases you submit as a predicate an entirely unprecedented version of what might happen, fixate on it, and rail against it as if it was written on stone and handed down from the Mount and demand that I refute it.

      That is the province of nightmares, not reality.

      In this case, you submit as truth the proposition that Mayo Clinic or Cleveland Clinic will ignore the local population in search of rich medical tourists. If that had ever happened anywhere in America, it would be a reasonable topic for discussion. But in fact it never has.

      If you ask me to prove it, I certainly can, but I don’t work at the beck and call of fantasists.

      If you want to know the full stories of Mayo Clinic or Cleveland Clinic, research them. And by that I don’t mean Google “Mayo or Cleveland Clinic critics” and send me a quote, but really research it.

      You will find, as I have in years of research, that both honor their charitable missions far more than Sentara. Hampton Roads and Virginia would be truly blessed if they would bring their business and charitable models here.

      Try not to get in the way by wild, unsupported and unsupportable accusations as predicates to condemnation.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        So for some reason, commenting on this issue elicits strong reactions. Please note while I have my view, and yes it likely is not without some ignorance on the subject, that I typically do not initiate personal attacks and I encourage discussion and debate without doing so. If someone thinks I have engaged in a personal attack, then call me to account. But check yourself also.

        otherwise – my comment:

        My impression (perhaps ignorant) is that companies like Mayo and Cleveland are more specialty hospitals for difficult diseases rather than true community-based hospitals like UVA and MWC in Fredericksburg and I presume Sentra and Innova. Mayo/Cleveland do charity but only for the selective medical things they specialize in. As far as I can tell they do not provide primary care or help people with managing chronic conditions, and such like one might see with primary care. Again, perhaps they do and I’m dead wrong.

        I actually don’t have a problem with Mayo and Cleveland existing as a business model or where they locate but from what I can see, they’re just not the same type of hospital as the existing community-based ones that provide continuing care to the entire community no matter whether they have a serious disease or a chronic condition, no matter if they are rich or low income or seniors on Medicare.

        I just see those kinds of hospitals as necessary and fundamentally needed and that they need to be supported not undermined. Community-based hospitals is how we improve health care in the country overall and when we lose a community-based hospital – the ordinary people it served – lose if there is no replacement – both urban and rural.

        COPN to conservatives is often a hot button issue, but my view is that if we made hospitals compete on services, that while we might see some price drops for some services , we’d not see price drops for general primary care and such and especially not for the lower income or seniors on Medicare.

        It seems to feel like we’d be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

        The problem is if the community hospitals use high-priced services to fund their unprofitable services what happens if they lose that method? Do they end up having to make a choice between staying open or shedding unprofitable services.

        I’d ask if health care costs in this country are higher is because too many do not receive regular primary care and chronic conditions are not treated and managed. Things like obesity, diabetes, smoking, even drug use.

        I just don’t see where “competition” for services like MRIs or other imaging or knee-replacements is going to help everyone and if those services are used by the hospitals to cross-subsidize folks who have Medicare/Medicaid such that they end up with losses they’ll be forced to shed the unprofitable services if they are to remain open.

        That’s my 2 cents. Like a lot of things, it may well be based on some ignorance and on my part. The value of debate is to not only share views but to perhaps learn something that one did not know.

        I have no problem with that. We are ALL ignorant – just on different issues… and I do have my share.

        In closing, I’ve not said one word personally impugning Jim S personally. I never do, never initiate a personal attack. I almost always argue the points but for some reason, more often than it should, it devolves into personal attacks here in BR and it’s usually with the Conservative type. It seems to be a pattern.

        1. sherlockj Avatar

          You’ll love my next column.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            I’m afraid to comment on it………;-)

    3. “How likely is it that Mayo would stand up community clinics for primary care in the area that DePaul served and accept Medicare/Medicaid such that those satellite facilities are unprofitable and may run at a loss?”

      The Mayo Clinic is non-profit and they do accept Medicare/Medicaid as well as providing other financial assistance to under- and uninsured individuals. It took about 30 seconds of research to find this out.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        THey accept SOME medicaid but do they offer a full range of services like primary care and other than would benefit the local community on ordinary health care?

        1. https://communityhealth.mayoclinic.org/primary-care

          Why don’t you look this stuff up yourself before posting insinuating questions based on your preconceived notions?

  10. LarrytheG Avatar

    So, here is my thinking.

    It’s claimed that medicare and medicaid do not pay the actual cost of providing the care, that whoever accepts their payment are taking a loss. Yet, a good percentage of people have Medicare and Medicaid and hospitals and other providers will accept them for payment even though they lose money on the transaction.

    How do they make up these losses?

    It appears to me that some (maybe more and more?) hospitals have moved to a business model where they sell profitable services and elective procedures for a tidy profit then use some of that profit to offset their losses on other patients who have Medicare and Medicaid.

    This type of practice is not unheard of in the business world. Walmart as well as the auto manufacturers are said to bump the profit on the in-demand cars and products so they can essentially sell others at a loss.

    Walmart sells 2 liter cokes for a whopping 100-200% markup while their milk is said to be sold at cost or less. Ford will get 5-10K profit on a big Ford Pickup , yet their gas-sipping compacts (that help them meet their CAFE standards) are sold at cost or at a loss. I read somewhere that Toyota’s Prius is sold almost at cost.

    How likely is it that Mayo would accept Medicare or Medicaid reimbursements for their services? How likely is it that some of
    the services Mayo offers are not covered at all with Medicare/Medicaid?

    How likely is it that Mayo would stand up community clinics for primary care in the area that DePaul served and accept Medicare/Medicaid such that those satellite facilities are unprofitable and may run at a loss?

    More than likely, Mayo would compete on the profitable services and just decline to provide services that are unprofitable.

    And if Sentra was going to compete with Mayo, they’d be forced to cut their prices also – but if they did not , they’d also be cutting funding of their less profitable services. Over time, they’d have to close down the unprofitable satellite places.

    where am I going wrong – seriously….. ????

    how about it IZZO ?

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      You neglected my advice.

    2. “How likely is it that Mayo would stand up community clinics for primary care in the area that DePaul served and accept Medicare/Medicaid such that those satellite facilities are unprofitable and may run at a loss?”

      The Mayo Clinic is non-profit and they do accept Medicare/Medicaid as well as providing other financial assistance to under- and uninsured individuals. It took about 30 seconds of research to find this out.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        THey accept SOME medicaid but do they offer a full range of services like primary care and other than would benefit the local community on ordinary health care?

        1. https://communityhealth.mayoclinic.org/primary-care

          Why don’t you look this stuff up yourself before posting insinuating questions based on your preconceived notions?

  11. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Yes, yes. They lose money on the poor and old. But, they make up for it with volume.

    It’s not a free market. It cannot be a free market. And fortune does not favor the bold. There’s no point in even thinking you can make it a free market unless you want the sick and dying on the sidewalks.

  12. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Yes, yes. They lose money on the poor and old. But, they make up for it with volume.

    It’s not a free market. It cannot be a free market. And fortune does not favor the bold. There’s no point in even thinking you can make it a free market unless you want the sick and dying on the sidewalks.

  13. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    “They lose money on the poor and old. But, they make up for it with volume.” Now THAT’s funny. That is nothing but S…T..U…P… (no, Jim will stop me.) The more volume, the more they lose, Larry.

  14. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    “They lose money on the poor and old. But, they make up for it with volume.” Now THAT’s funny. That is nothing but S…T..U…P… (no, Jim will stop me.) The more volume, the more they lose, Larry.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Uh, … never mind.

  15. LarrytheG Avatar

    Did COPN do away with DePaul? How about all the rural hospitals that are in trouble or have to close?

    What exactly caused DePaul to close?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Same thing that causes anything to close… not keeping up. Well, that’s a buncha psych beds if we increase security. Or hey! A Place for Mom?!

    2. sherlockj Avatar

      COPN absolutely killed DePaul.

      DePaul was too big a legacy facility to survive in the modern environment that I explained yesterday. It need to be extensively downsized and modernized to work, and Bon Secours needed the cash flow from its proposed new hospitals in Virginia Beach and Suffolk to finance that work.

      You should read the brief that Bon Secours submitted before the March 2008 decision. It fully and accurately predicted what would happen if their COPN proposals were rejected – the closure of DePaul and the destruction of the viability of Bon Secours as a participant in the Hampton Roads market.

      Those of course were considered features, not bugs, by Sentara.

      The Deputy Health Commissioner, certainly not under the influence of his boss, who came to the job from Sentara, decided that it did not matter.

      He dropped the hammer, resulting in the closure of two hospitals that served a disproportionate percentage of the poor in Norfolk and Virginia Beach and the realistic possibility that Bon Secours will close Maryview, the only civilian hospital in Portsmouth.

      If you support that, then keep on asking the same questions. DePaul and Bayside were urban/suburban hospitals. That is where COPN does its work.

      COPN has no effect on rural hospitals, because it only swings into action when someone proposes to add facilities or equipment. That is not happening in rural areas.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        two service stations get into a gas price war. What often happens?

        If two medical facilities combined are bigger than their service area demand – both will starve.. cut corners… try to sell more medical services than people need, etc…

        there is no real “free market” in health care as long as a lot of it is paid for by insurance.

        AND it is irresponsible for the government to force hospitals to accept charity care and not provide them with a way to recover those costs. When they do that and leave it to the hospitals to figure it out – they do things like get together in an associated to fight getting rid of COPN.

        Give the hospitals a way to pay for their charity care in concert with downsizing COPN and I’m on board.

  16. LarrytheG Avatar

    Did COPN do away with DePaul? How about all the rural hospitals that are in trouble or have to close?

    What exactly caused DePaul to close?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Same thing that causes anything to close… not keeping up. Well, that’s a buncha psych beds if we increase security. Or hey! A Place for Mom?!

    2. sherlockj Avatar

      COPN absolutely killed DePaul.

      DePaul was too big a legacy facility to survive in the modern environment that I explained yesterday. It need to be extensively downsized and modernized to work, and Bon Secours needed the cash flow from its proposed new hospitals in Virginia Beach and Suffolk to finance that work.

      You should read the brief that Bon Secours submitted before the March 2008 decision. It fully and accurately predicted what would happen if their COPN proposals were rejected – the closure of DePaul and the destruction of the viability of Bon Secours as a participant in the Hampton Roads market.

      Those of course were considered features, not bugs, by Sentara.

      The Deputy Health Commissioner, certainly not under the influence of his boss, who came to the job from Sentara, decided that it did not matter.

      He dropped the hammer, resulting in the closure of two hospitals that served a disproportionate percentage of the poor in Norfolk and Virginia Beach and the realistic possibility that Bon Secours will close Maryview, the only civilian hospital in Portsmouth.

      If you support that, then keep on asking the same questions. DePaul and Bayside were urban/suburban hospitals. That is where COPN does its work.

      COPN has no effect on rural hospitals, because it only swings into action when someone proposes to add facilities or equipment. That is not happening in rural areas.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        two service stations get into a gas price war. What often happens?

        If two medical facilities combined are bigger than their service area demand – both will starve.. cut corners… try to sell more medical services than people need, etc…

        there is no real “free market” in health care as long as a lot of it is paid for by insurance.

        AND it is irresponsible for the government to force hospitals to accept charity care and not provide them with a way to recover those costs. When they do that and leave it to the hospitals to figure it out – they do things like get together in an associated to fight getting rid of COPN.

        Give the hospitals a way to pay for their charity care in concert with downsizing COPN and I’m on board.

  17. […] see, perhaps some Hampton Roads patients can go to DePaul Hospital in Norfolk.   No, sorry, it closed under assault on its business by a certain regional […]

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