By Steve HanerFirst published this morning by the Thomas Jefferson Institute for Public Policy.

Virginians may finally be waking up to the consequences of the headlong rush to adopt utopian energy policies under our previous governor. The issues are getting more attention than ever before, and now people need to realize that all the issues are really just one issue.

  • A California regulatory board’s decision to ban new gasoline vehicle sales by 2035 is finally being widely reported as binding on Virginia. This has angered many but was actually old news. Under a 2021 Virginia law, our Air Pollution Control Board had already imposed the future sales restrictions, and it was some new amendments that sparked the news coverage. Various political leaders have now promised to stop it but a bill to reverse it died in the 2022 General Assembly when Democrats rallied to save the mandate.
  • Our dominant electric utility has finally acknowledged that its planned $10 billion offshore wind facility is a gigantic financial risk and is now refusing to build it unless the State Corporation Commission (SCC) places 100 percent of the construction and performance risk on its customers. Dominion Energy Virginia knows many things about this proposal it has not told us.
  • Governor Glenn Youngkin (R) is trying to remove Virginia from an interstate compact that mandates a carbon tax on electricity, imposed under former Governor Ralph Northam (D). Advocates for the tax are pushing back and will fight, delay and likely sue to preserve the tax, which costs Virginians $300 million per year at current levels and will continue to rise. Without explanation, the Governor did not keep his initial promise to promulgate an emergency regulation that could remove it quickly, so the tax lingers.
  • Governor Youngkin has opened the process for developing a revised statewide energy plan document, a political process to produce what in the past has been merely a political document. The public comment portal has already become an ideological fistfight. Northam’s 2018 plan had no engineering or economic detail.  It simply praised the legislative efforts to erase fossil fuels which had been adopted to that point and outlined the next steps his administration would take (couched as recommendations.)

Legislation

also signed by Northam demands that the Youngkin plan now address far more issues than Virginia has addressed to date, issues not raised in the 2018 document. He is required to produce a plan:

that identifies actions over a 10-year period…to achieve, no later than 2045, a net-zero carbon energy economy for all sectors, including the electricity, transportation, building, agricultural, and industrial sectors.

That instruction is not highlighted on the website about the new planning process, which merely mentions “environmental stewardship.” Yet if the plan fails to chase net-zero to the satisfaction of those who claim carbon dioxide is an existential threat (rather than just plant food), expect additional litigation.

That state law is the common thread running through all pending issues, and also wraps around the rising energy prices for your home, car and business.

The Virginia General Assembly, during the short period of total Democratic control, voted narrowly to bind the state to California’s aggressive effort to remove gasoline and diesel vehicles. It did so in line with that overarching policy it also added to the code, and that mandate needs to be examined, debated and considered for repeal along with the auto regulations.

The Virginia General Assembly, during that same short period, voted to require Dominion to propose the offshore wind installation, a risky expense that would never be considered reasonable and prudent otherwise, as the SCC itself has implied.  Again, the justification is compliance with that net-zero policy demand, based on claims that failure to act is a path toward some onrushing climate catastrophe.

The carbon tax under the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative is justified as a means of reducing carbon dioxide emissions but has the added attraction of raising dollars that politicians can then dole out with ribbon cuttings and press releases. If Virginia were to reverse the underlying policy and decide a net zero economy is neither possible nor desirable, RGGI is clearly just another tax and spend regime.

The debate as Virginia approaches its next round of legislative elections in November 2023, should be about that net zero statutory mandate and the evidentiary claims behind it. The offshore wind boondoggle, the abdication of sovereignty to California, and the RGGI tax are all trunks growing off that one taproot.

If the root remains embedded, if that law remains on the books, then what has been going on in the electricity and transportation sectors will expand into mandatory building code restrictions and the elimination of natural gas, heating oil and propane as common fuels. The net-zero vision for agriculture includes the elimination of many fertilizers and limits on production of livestock.  If you doubt that, read about what is going on in Sri Lanka and The Netherlands.

Too often the politically safe path has been to dance around the underlying assumptions and just swing at the individual programs. Yes, RGGI can be attacked as a regressive tax. Yes, the wind project carries immense cost and risk compared to other forms of electricity generation. Yes, an all-electric vehicle fleet is unrealistic, will be incredibly expensive, and will crush the electric grid.

But the foundation under all three is also weak. There is no reason Virginia should totally abandon the fuels which still run the vast majority of our homes, vehicles, farms and businesses. The goal of net-zero, however defined, is bound to fail, in fact is failing everywhere it is tried. Is it not time to ask, why are we doing this at all?


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77 responses to “Consequences of the Zero Carbon Fantasy”

  1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
    James C. Sherlock

    Outstanding report.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Uh yep. If Haner is wrong about the whole mess, it’s your house that’s at the bottom of an expanded Linkhorn, not his.

      I like this!

      1. The atlantic plate is tipping down at the Norfolk end. Regardless of who is right on the whole mess, tidewater is descending towards sea level.

        https://richmond.com/washingtonpost/the-fastest-rate-of-sea-level-rise-on-the-east-coast-is-in-virginia-beach/article_614131c0-4b7f-5315-bfcd-40ac6b33c346.html

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          East half of Richmond is below the fall.

          1. It is but not as close to sea level as Tidewater. The tipping of the plate and sea level rise are bad harbingers for y’all. As 64 reminds me every time I drive it there’s a lot of ground to cover between the ocean and Richmond. I’m west of the fall line and over 300′ above current sea level. YLMV – Your level may vary.

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            There’s a lot of distance between Richmond and Norfolk alright, but I-64 is never more than 5 miles away from tidal rivers on both sides. Can’t use galvanized nails for your decks until you get past West Point.

          3. There was a funny little bar we used to get to in West Point, it was on the 2nd floor of a building.

            There’s that dividing line on 64 where it’s snow on the west bank and rain on the east. Queen Creek maybe?

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            You are absolutely spot on. For a long time, decades maybe, on any given winter day the freeze line cut the Peninsula between Newport News and Williamsburg. Queen’s crk was pretty much the line. I can recall leaving class in the late 70s with 6″ of snow in Billsburg and a dusting by the time you reached Eustis. Not always, but a lot.

            Of course, if a low comes up from Dallas and passes off the coast at Duck, NC then all bets were off and Norfolk could get 2 feet and Williamsburg got nada.

            Learned about local weather from the best — Joe Folkes. I worked at the Norfolk airport restaurant in high school and he used to come in to get the maps and his snoot full before the 6PM news.

          5. Yeah, I remember being in Norfolk long ago, around Christmas I believe, with close to 2 feet of snow.

            Many of the worst storms we’ve gotten rode up the east side of the blue ridge and dumped on the Richmond area.

            There’s a local theory on how the South lost the war. They predicted light snow and everyone in Richmond rushed to the grocery stores to stock up on milk, bread and soup. The Yankees rounded them all up in the parking lots and it was all over.

            You do any B school stuff at Bill n Mary?

          6. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Thought it was “milk, bread, and toiletpaper”.

            And as my dad said, “The milk and bread are to show you want the toiletpaper is for”

        2. Where in the article does it say that? I saw this in the original WaPo Sep. 4 2018 article: “The already low-lying land actually is sinking — for complex reasons
          including groundwater loss and a now-deflating bulge in the earth
          created by ice age glaciers.”
          The USGS has shown that half of Hampton Roads relative sea level rise is from excessive drawdown of the aquifers.

          1. Yes, depleting the aquifer hurts too.

            There is a rise in New England that corresponds to the fall in Tidewater. I did not find the original article I saw years ago that talked about plate rotation. Guess I’ll take the deflating bulge in the earth theory although I don’t recall that Florida is sinking too.

            What is undoubtedly true is that Tidewater is getting closer to sea level every year. News reports I see of flooding also seem like they are getting both more frequent and worse.

          2. When you don’t have proper drainage and keep culverts and ditches clear, you’re going to have more flooding. If you want to explore the real facts behind the hampton roads subsidence, check this out: https://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/1392/pdf/circ1392.pdf Land Subsidence and Sea-Level Rise in the Southern Chesapeake Bay Region. If you want to understand the flooding issues, ready my book, Drowning a County. (You don’t have to buy it. You can borrow it from the Library of Virginia.)

          3. Thanks for the USGS circular, interesting data. I’ll look for your book too.

            Richmond certainly experienced severe flooding after a hurricane some years ago due largely to failure to clear sewers and culverts.

          4. I’m not necessarily doubting that the Tidewater area is slowly sinking towards sea level, but I do wonder how the Cavalier Hotel in Virginia Beach, which has not moved very much at all since it was built in 1927 is essentially the same distance from the Atlantic Ocean today as it was the day it was built.

            If the whole area is sinking, one might think that perhaps the ocean would be creeping towards its grounds.

          5. Look at the USGS circular that CJ linked above, It’ll give you chapter and verse on why, where and how much the area is sinking.

  2. Deckplates Avatar

    Setting, aside the history and fighting about who is right, it is still obvious that there is no justified ROI for windmills & solar panels. Or am I missing a Business Case study or an Engineering Case Study?

    1. James Kiser Avatar
      James Kiser

      Because the engineering and economic studies don’t support it.

  3. James Kiser Avatar
    James Kiser

    The picture of the coal plant workers pushing an electric car to the plant for a charge says it all.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Gallows humor. That’s why the load coal. Incapable of reading a charge meter.

  4. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
    energyNOW_Fan

    Mutually assured destruction of our Country, by both Repub and Dem extremism

  5. Dominion Energy Virginia knows many things about this proposal it has not told us.

    Doesn’t their refusal to build offshore wind unless they are absolved of all risk tell us everything we need to know about the proposal?

  6. Dominion Energy Virginia knows many things about this proposal it has not told us.

    Doesn’t their refusal to build offshore wind unless they are absolved of all risk tell us everything we need to know about the proposal?

  7. how_it_works Avatar
    how_it_works

    Quote from another site I read:

    ” I know California takes a lot of hits for policies, but for quality of life and overall offerings, California has more to offer than any other state in the USA,.”

    Which goes along what I’ve long believed to be the case–people put up with California’s policies because of what the state has to offer.

    Will people put up with California-style policies in a state like Virginia???

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      That’s why we have Mississippi. They make Virginia look good.

      1. how_it_works Avatar
        how_it_works

        I thought Mississippi is there to make Arkansas look good?

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Mississippi makes Cambodia look good.

    2. Kathleen Smith Avatar
      Kathleen Smith

      That’s why they live in California.

      1. how_it_works Avatar
        how_it_works

        Why do people live in Virginia? Aside from the Federal jobs and inertia because their family has been here since the 1600s?

        1. Because it’s not California, and there’s an entire continent between us to protect Virginia. Hopefully that will stop the increasing hordes that are abandoning California from getting to Virginia.

          1. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            It’s not California, but it IS right next to DC.

            What an improvement!

          2. Indeed it is! The saving grace is Virginia is not D.C. just as it is not California (or Maryland). Viva la difference.

          3. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Northern Virginia, for better or worse, is heavily influenced by DC. Loudoun County wouldn’t be the richest county in the USA if it weren’t for DC.

          4. The reason Loudoun County is where it is is because it is in Virginia and it is not in D.C. We are grateful that the Potomac River makes the distinction unmistakable.

            Arguing the greatness of California is like arguing with a pig about the quality of the muck in its sty. The pig likes it.

          5. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            The Potomac river serves to separate the Federal teat from the Virginians who suckle upon it.

          6. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
            energyNOW_Fan

            I like that! (I think)

          7. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
            energyNOW_Fan

            I like that! (I think)

          8. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            If you’ve been paying attention to this blog you’d know that if it weren’t for foreign immigration, Virginia would be losing population.

    3. Which goes along what I’ve long believed to be the case–people put up with California’s policies because of what the state has to offer.

      What do you like best, rolling blackouts, massive fires and residential area gas explosions largely caused by inability to provide public utilities?

      What do you like best, urban homeless encampments with people living on sidewalks, shooting up and shitting in the streets?

      What do you like best, massive drought and 106 temperatures in the mountains yesterday?

      Will people put up with California-style policies in a state like Virginia??

      NO

      1. how_it_works Avatar
        how_it_works

        The inability to provide public utilities?

        Like Dominion Power, where the power fails during perfectly clear weather and takes hours to get restored?

        Or where the power fails every single time it rains and takes hours to get restored? That happened at my dad’s house. New house built in 1987, for years afterward every time it rained the power went out. Whatever caused the problem wasn’t fixed until 1995 when a new subdivision was built across the street, so I doubt that Dominion intentionally fixed the problem, it was likely an accident resulting for the changes needed for the new subdivision.

        And my last trip to Maryland on US15 I still saw the 5 automatic splices in a row. That’s a sign of an electric company that just doesn’t give a crap about keeping their system in good repair.

        Thank god I have NOVEC, which somehow manages to keep the power on. My power didn’t flicker once during that snowstorm back in January, yet my brother who has Dominion lost power for several DAYS. And he lives in a subdivision right near the commercial strip on route 3 in Fredericksburg, not the country.

        106 degree temperatures? I seem to recall that Virginia has had a few years where we get near 100F high temperatures, along with the high humidity that Virginia is known for. And droughts aren’t unheard of in Virginia either, one year one of my neighbors (I live in a rural area) planted a large field of corn and it ALL died due to the lack of rain. (They have since sold that field and new houses are being built there).

  8. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    “Is it not time to ask, why are we doing this at all?”
    Remember? Uncle Ralph said so. He used one of those jedi mind tricks and we fell for it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO_xfR64qSk

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      “These are not the classified documents you seek.”

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead
        1. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
          energyNOW_Fan

          …these aren’t the droids (EV’s) you are looking for! R2D2. MG4, what’s the difference?

        2. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
          energyNOW_Fan

          …these aren’t the droids (EV’s) you are looking for! R2D2. MG4, what’s the difference?

    2. vicnicholls Avatar
      vicnicholls

      Not all of us.

  9. It astonishes me that people can look and see what’s happening in Germany and the UK, and then in California, without questioning the wisdom of the rush to a zero-carbon grid. How many blackouts must we experience and how much do electric rates have to increase before we come to our senses?

    If we keep investing in new technologies and new business models, we’ll likely to get to a zero carbon economy by the end of the century — without wrecking the economy along the way. The climate hysteria that demands zero carbon NOW is messianic madness.

    1. Kathleen Smith Avatar
      Kathleen Smith

      At my age, one of those blackouts could possibly kill me if I were on a need electricity to operate medical device.

    2. Because you all did everything in your power to dither, obfuscate, and generally stall any efforts at a graduated decline. Now we are at a point where it’s no longer a matter of avoiding damage in the coming century, but mitigating the damage.

      So yeah, there’s an impetus to get this done sooner rather than later. After 30 years of hardline denial and obstinacy, you can’t start complaining about a lack of compromise this late in the discussion. You had that chance.

      1. Randy Huffman Avatar
        Randy Huffman

        Meanwhile China and India build coal plants faster than we can shut ours down.

    3. “Heat wave prompts statewide Energy Emergency Alert; Outages impact 26,000 Bay Area homes, businesses” — The state is looking at energy deficits of 2,000-4,000 megawatts — up to 10 percent of normal electricity demand.

      https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/california-energy-emergency-alert-warns-possible-outages-heat-wave/

      1. Don’t charge your electric vehicles and my in laws were bitching about 106 degrees in the mountains yesterday. What a paradise.

    4. William O'Keefe Avatar
      William O’Keefe

      Jim, I agree completely. Everyone accepts that climate is changing and that action is required. But too many accept uncritically that we therefore have to adopt actions based on catastrophic models and claims. There is the other road which is the one you mention- invest in new technologies-and implement technologies that are already proven.
      Bjorn Lomberg in a WSJ opinion piece last week pointed out for example that “if every country achieved its…electric vehicle targets by 2030” the reduction in temperature by the end of the century using the UN model would be 0.0002 degrees F. Not noticeable but incredibly expensive.

  10. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
    f/k/a_tmtfairfax

    Years ago, a lawyer friend of mine who used to do radio and TV broadcast work told me that a couple members of the U.S. House had introduced a bill that would have legislated a change in how radio waves propagate. Is climate change-renewable energy legislation really any different when you go to its core?

    Each state should conduct a detailed study of how it would move from an economy based on fossil fuels to one based on renewable energy. They should start with how most fossil fuel vehicles could be replaced by EVs. The steps and resources required should be laid out, along with obstacles. The plan should address these issues in great detail, including both engineering and economic analyses. There should be people with differing perspectives involved so that they can criticize the process and the results along the way.

    All inputs, including email, texts, voice mails, phone and personal conversations should be recorded and put into the record. Failure to do so should result in a significant fine and, under extreme circumstances, jail time.

    People would actually know what would need to happen with both the costs and benefits documented. Of course, not everyone would be pleased or even satisfied. But truly fact-based analysis from an open process is more likely to result in public consensus.

    1. Completely agree with you. And as an illustration of the opposite: allowing Dominion to keep confidential all that support for rate-basing the cost of all that proposed off-shore-wind generation is a travesty.

  11. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    A few questions:
    Doesn’t Dominion always stick the risk with its generating plants, be they coal, gas, gob or renewable? Is the utility not telling us something about them as well?

    Is climate change a fantasy? I’ve read that many real scientists might disagree with that.

    Why is RGGI such a bad idea. The carbon tax and market actually pay Virginia back. See:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/08/26/youngkin-must-reconsider-his-attempts-gut-flood-protection/

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Wow. In reverse order : 1) every dime of RGGI money is paid in by a customer before it “pays Virginia back.” Of course it just gets passed on in prices. 2) Yep, big debate, with plenty of very credible scientists claiming that NET ZERO is a fantasy. You misrepresented me. I said net zero. 3) Difference with the other plants is that with them, the SCC had the power to say no. It has no such power over the wind project.

      1. Peter Galuszka Avatar
        Peter Galuszka

        Point taken on Net Zero. In absolute terms it may well be a fantasy but that doesn’t mean it should not be a worthy goal. It’s also something of a right wing dog whistle.

    2. PG, you are correct the RGGI money gets ‘paid back’ to the States. That in many people’s view is a large part of the problem: it goes to the State government, perhaps earmarked for this or that splendid cause but in any case not directly back to ratepayers. So it’s a redistribution mechanism for money — a tax really — levied only on ratepayers — residential and commercial, and primarily from those with the largest electric bills — for uses they may not support. Some of those uses may be appropriate enough and it’s fair to say, if you support all of them then it’s a wash or even better and you probably supported RGGI because of them, but if you object (either to the uses themselves or to the involuntary assessment mechanism to support them), then RGGI is a partisan pill — no less than a tax you didn’t vote for.

  12. Kathleen Smith Avatar
    Kathleen Smith

    Great report, I just sent my comments forward via your link to the general assembly public comments port.

  13. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    Net-Zero by 2045 is a goal. Without a stated goal, or timeline, actions to achieve that are less likely to occur. The most famous example is John Kennedy’s goal for America to reach the moon by the end of the decade. Jim claims, “If we keep investing in new technologies and new business models, we’ll
    likely to get to a zero carbon economy by the end of the century.” Without some sort of time-defined goal, we may not keep “investing in new technologies and new business models. This type of argument reminds me of the woman who recently claimed that there was no need for the Civil War because Southerners would have freed their slaves in 30 or 4o years.

    And Rosie makes a good point–if society had begun making serious steps to reduce carbon emissions in 2000, it could have been done much more gradually. Conservatives pushed back for so many years and are now saying, “What’s the rush?”

    By the way, you seem to be implying that Youngkin is taking the initiative by opening the process to revise the state energy plan. State law requires the plan to be revised every four years. It was last revised in 2018.

    1. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
      f/k/a_tmtfairfax

      And FDR did more than state that the United States would be victorious against the Japanese in his speech to Congress on December 8, 1941. The Administration and the Military developed plans that included identifying the steps needed and obstacles to victory. And the costs of victory were very high for the American people.

      What are the steps to replace 50% of the current gasoline and diesel-powered vehicles with EVs? What the obstacles? What will it cost? What is the impact of imposing such a change on the economy? On society? The GA when it passed the goal of net zero? They didn’t have a clue.

      What we will see is posturing and slogans. Multiple failures because there is no plan. The only thing that sure is this will be the largest transfer of wealth from the working and middle classes to the Coastal Elites and ultra-wealthy.

      If Lincoln had taken the same approach in 1861, we’d be living in the Confederate States of America. And if FDR had done the same, we’d be speaking German for business and education. The West Coast would be using Japanese as their language.

      If this needs to be done, why not do it right? That starts by honestly stating what needs to be done, a candid assessment of whether we can do it and at what cost? A movement that takes inspiration from a Swedish teenager sure as all hell cannot do this. Maybe, it’s time to forget Greta, put away the virtue signaling and start being honest with the public.

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      And the Republican viewpoint…

      “The history of the failure of war can almost be summed up in two words: too late.” ― Douglas MacArthur

      What’s that other old chestnut? “Failure to plan is to plan failure,” or words to that effect.

      1. What else did MacArthur say, something like “We don’t need to worry about no steenkin’ Chinese. On to the Yalu.” Wasn’t that shortly before Truman sacked him?

  14. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
    energyNOW_Fan

    It is not just the Democrats that want to ban gasoline cars, the U.S. Automakers want to ban gasoline cars.

    I feel it is important to understand the U.S. Autos logic, and I am all ears (pls advise). But I can list some of my theories:
    (1) they can lay off all gasoline car/plant/parts/dealers employees (downsize/re-structure)
    (2) They are requesting (and getting) protectionist legislation to hinder their competition from imports
    (3) they may lean Democrat in their corporate Boards
    (4) They realize California has usurped Federal authority on cars, and see it in their corporate interest to support that anarchy/anomaly
    (5) they always had animosity towards US Oil industry
    (6) Japan is best at hybrids so U.S. wants BEV’s….we are really the only country going to all-BEV centric policy…other countries are more all-of-the above policy…BEV is politically correct, comfort “food” here for Dems.

    But my point is, if we (Virginia) want to buy a non-EV’s as a state, we and other Red and/or Purple states would need to consider how to import or manufacture them in the face of the Three B’s for America policies of the U.S. Dems, liberals, and US Autos:
    “Be American, Buy American, Ban American Fossil Fuels”

    1. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
      f/k/a_tmtfairfax

      How does all this square with the WTO agreement? And the many foreign-owned automobile plants in the United States? And, in any event, we don’t have the electric power infrastructure to pull this off.

      1. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
        energyNOW_Fan

        Foreign auto makers have access to US market by locating their BEV *assembly* plants here. U.S. liberals think in terms of dirty and clean technology, and *assembly* is an activity liberals are willing to accept as clean and consistent with a zero pollution America.

        I do not know much about WTO, but I am under impression that Europe puts quite a high tariff price on auto imports to protect EU car manufacturers. For example, Toyota Prius is not big seller in EU due to high cost there. Prius was mostly a Japan/USA phenomenon.

        Grid readiness is something Dominion is ready to accept the challenge to do whatever is needed, at whatever cost, at our expense of course. The Dems agree with that, and if we get to the deadline without grid, they feel gasoline cars should still be banned on schedule and deal with hardships to make their vision work at all costs. Dems want a non-negotiable hard and fast deadline mandate, like they apparently accomplished in Virginia.

    2. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
      energyNOW_Fan

      P.S.-
      The “Three B’s for America” policies of the U.S. Dems, liberals, and US Autos:
      “Be American, Buy American, Ban American Fossil Fuels”

      I just made that up…copyright Bacons Rebellion

  15. I am NOT defending naive efforts to control carbon emissions willy-nilly and without consideration of cost — or the rate-basing of Dominion’s new generation regardless of risk! BUT: I can say that exaggeration on the other side of the equation should be called out for what it is.

    SH says, “Yes, an all-electric vehicle fleet is unrealistic, will be incredibly expensive and will crush the electric grid.” That’s beyond exaggeration; it’s just plain wrong. He’s entitled to his opinion but them’s not the facts.

    It’s not “incredibly expensive” as long as the essential qualifier is observed: that we transition methodically to all-electric fleets over the normal replacement cycles for vehicles, not in a ridiculously-expensive “replace everything now” mode. Obviously the transition to electric vehicles will require supporting infrastructure that is in limited supply today, mainly widely-available recharging stations, but also the limited battery manufacturing capability and supply of battery raw materials in this country may prove to be a major bottleneck.

    It will not “crush the electric grid” as long as another essential qualifier is observed: that a tremendous amount of overdue ‘bulk power’ transmission construction is undertaken, construction that’s already needed for reliability in some parts of the country (lookin’ at you, Texas) and needed everywhere to better integrate and distribute all that new solar and wind power and make up for the retirements of older fossil-fueled generation. And, more battery or equivalent storage is needed to ‘time shift’ power from when it is generated (both solar and wind power are transient) to hours when it is needed.

    Therefore it’s not “unrealistic.” There is no lack of generation on the horizon to accommodate an all-electric-vehicle nation; the shortages have to do with transmission and storage — with getting the power to where it is needed when it is needed.

    1. Transmission and storage, especially storage to “time shift” power, details, schmetails. There ain’t nothin’ on the horizon for that.

    2. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
      energyNOW_Fan

      I would think that overall vision requires enormous amounts of raw materials from China: Li, Cu, graphite, rare earths, Si, etc. in a relatively short amount of time, which brings up a lot of questions like: why is that better somehow?

  16. LarrytheG Avatar

    More fear-mongering from the usual right wing suspects.

    If someone said: ” converting all vehicles to electric in the next 12 months will crush the grid and be disastrous, that would likely be a true statement”.

    But when change 12 months to decades, it’s just plain old fear mongering AND it’s based on denial of science to boot! It’s coming from the small minority of mostly right wing folks who reject what most of science – around the world – is saying about climate change.

    1. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
      f/k/a_tmtfairfax

      10-1 there would be a revolt among many groups if a state, any state, developed a plan for recharging EVs at the same capacity that we can refuel vehicles today. Add in expected growth in vehicles and the opposition to intrusive infrastructure would be overwhelming.

      I’m not arguing against EVs. I’m simply pointing out that our government is simply not dealing with reality. Life has tradeoffs and the tradeoffs. And no one is talking about the tradeoffs. Wall Street is just thinking about a new Las Vegas game, and the nonprofits and politicians are thinking about the contributions off the top.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        what “intrusive” infrastructure TMT?

        This is a decades-long transition not an overnight revamp.

        Our govt DOES deal with reality – all the time guy. Are you aware of what was done for CFCs? How about all the chemicals the EPA has banned over time? Did we go to unleaded gas and stricter emission standards? Did we require seat belts and other safety changes?

        You’re driving a safer car on safer highways that pollutes a lot less – because of govt – not the free market.

        Govt rules is what changed things.

  17. LarrytheG Avatar

    There may NEVER be zero or ZERO Carbon EVERY but that’s not what this is about except in the minds of those who want to portray that way.

    It would be like claiming there will be ZERO pollutants in the Chesapeake Bay or ZERO chemicals in food or any other wacko idea of ZERO but it makes a good talking-point for the climate deniers to oppose ANY changes because in their minds climate change is a HOAX and no change is needed at all.

    fixed it.

  18. The Amazing Criswell Avatar
    The Amazing Criswell

    The Earth has been warming for around 15,000 years. Why should we try to stop it? What is the gain for the cost? After all, it is cheaper to air condition than to heat.

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