Comparing Freeman and Lincoln on Race

Douglas Southall Freeman

by Phil Leigh

Based upon a background report on Douglas Southall Freeman (1886-1953) by Dr. Lauranett L. Lee, the University of Richmond removed his name from Mitchell-Freeman Hall owing to his alleged racism. All the good that he had done for the school’s funding and academic reputation as a two-time Pulitzer Prize winner, Board of Trustees Member and Rector counted for nothing. Even though the midpoint of his adult career was 1930, the university administrators are holding him to today’s racial standards without any allowance for being part of a different era when his racial attitudes were judged moderate and often sympathetic to blacks. Despite their similarity to those of Abraham Lincoln, the University of Richmond demonizes Freeman for his racial beliefs while its leading historian and former president, Edward Ayers, glorifies Lincoln.

Abraham Lincoln

In contrast, the university administrators extend Freeman’s critics special allowances concerning time, place, and race. They fault Freeman for opposing interracial marriage, even though 75% of whites and 73% of blacks opposed it in 1968, fifteen years after Freeman’s death. Additionally, when Freeman referred to blacks in his writing he normally did so with the then-respectful term “Negro” as opposed to “colored” or the unmentionable “N-word.”

In contrast, Dr. Lee, who is black, constantly capitalizes the “B” in Black when referring to African Americans (83 times) in her 100-page criticism of Freeman while always using a lower case “w” when referencing white people. Although I’ve contacted professors Lee and Ayers as well as president Crutcher, nobody at the University of Richmond has replied. Consequently, it’s most logical to assume that her use of upper-case “B” in black and lower-case “w” in white is an expression of endemic black superiority endorsed by the university.

Let us now consider the comparative racial attitudes of Lincoln and Freeman. Both believed in racial segregation, although Freeman argued that the separate black public facilities should be the equal to those of whites. In the second year of the Civil War President Lincoln met with five black leaders at the White House:

“You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss, but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both . . . If this is admitted, it affords a reason at least why we should be separated.”

The President then recommended that the blacks leave the United States to colonize other countries such as Colombia (Panama) or Liberia.

“. . . It is better for us both, therefore, to be separated. I know that there are free men among you . . . not . . . much inclined to go out of the country . . . I suppose one of the principal difficulties in the way of colonization is that the free colored man cannot see that his comfort would be advanced by it. . . . This is (I speak in no unkind sense) an extremely selfish view of the case.”

Eight years earlier, and seven years before the Civil War, Lincoln explained that he did not want slavery in the western territories because he did not want blacks there, neither slave nor free: “The whole nation is interested that the best use shall be made of these territories. We want them for the homes of free white people.”

Despite his untimely death, Lincoln successfully retained the western territories for free white people. Of all twenty-two states admitted to the Union after Texas in 1845 down to the present day, nearly 180 years later, all but two joined the USA when blacks composed one percent or less of their populations. The two exceptions are the border states of Oklahoma and West Virginia, the latter admitted as a slave state when Lincoln was still President.

Lincoln, of course, is most remembered for his Emancipation Proclamation, which was announced in September 1862 and implemented in January 1863. It prohibited all Americans from owning slaves, except for those who happened to reside in the United States. Lincoln admitted it was adopted as a war measure to weaken the Confederacy. He was aware that it might even ignite a servile insurrection in the South that would cause the Confederate soldier to abandon his army so that he may return home to protect his family from massacre. A few weeks before he released the Proclamation, Lincoln was so discouraged by the progress of the war that Attorney General Bates recorded the President as saying “he was almost ready to hang himself.”

While Lincoln’s militarily motivated Emancipation Proclamation was an enlightened initiative for his time, Freeman was similarly outspoken ahead of his time and place for racial equality under the law and equality of separate public facilities. Even professor Lee admits that between 1936 and 1942 Freeman urged his newspaper readers to provide more funding for black schools. She also admits that his editorials “on lynching, judicial equality, and police violence, would at times earn praise from the Black community.”

This column is republished with permission from the Civil War Chat blog.


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75 responses to “Comparing Freeman and Lincoln on Race”

  1. I was ambivalent about publishing this piece by Philip Leigh. Leigh’s arguments could encourage people, depending upon their inclinations, to cancel Abraham Lincoln in addition to D.S. Freeman. I decided to publish anyway because he Leigh makes a critically important argument: When we judge historical figures, we should apply not only the values of our time but the values of the time in which they lived.

    By the criteria widely used to de-memorialize Freeman, there is a strong argument in favor of canceling the Great Emancipator, Lincoln himself. Is that really where we want to go? If we do, where do we stop? We would have grounds to chancel every president who preceded Bill Clinton for their incorrect views. If we were serious about opposing misogyny and not just racism, we would cancel Martin Luther King as well.

    We can adopt one of two perspectives. One is that America was grievously flawed in its creation, has caused little but suffering and misery throughout its long history, and remains grievously flawed. The other is that the founding fathers articulated the principle that “all men are created equal” in the eyes of the Creator and entitled to equal rights, and to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and that we have moved in fits and starts over 250 years to making those principles a reality.

    If we adopt the second perspective, then we honor those who contributed to social well being and the advancement of those principles, while acknowledging that they fall short of modern-day standards. One set of criteria uses utopia as the yardstick. The other uses the real world as the yardstick.

    1. Timothy Watson Avatar
      Timothy Watson

      Worth noting that the woke crowd is already for canceling Abraham Lincoln.

      Gun control activist David Hogg had to denounce himself on Twitter for saying, “Lincoln was a really good president.”

    2. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      De-memorializing is a great term!!! Your ambiguity is well understood and appreciated. At the same time, however, a contemporary de-memorializing can also be made in context as one recognizing changing standards going forward from that point. As was discussed in a prior post on this topic, it should be sufficient for the institution to make the change even without detailed explanation or study.

      1. Donald Smith Avatar
        Donald Smith

        “one recognizing changing standards going forward from that point.”

        That presumes that everyone agrees with and supports the change in standards.

        “it should be sufficient for the institution to make the change even without detailed explanation or study.”

        If that institution exists on some remote island, perhaps. But for institutions that are part of a much larger society—and especially institutions that benefit from publicly-funded programs (like college loan programs)—it’s silly to think that said institutions should be allowed to do whatever they want and the rest of us should just stay silent.

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          There’s no hint that the “rest of us” lost freedom of speech. Educational institutions enjoy and preserve academic freedom while they are members of the larger society. In this instance, the institution is free to make a name change without approval by the public.

          1. Donald Smith Avatar
            Donald Smith

            That’s right. But the institution is not immune from the consequences of its actions. For example, if a large percentage (even a majority) of society concludes that U of R’s actions were petty and small-minded, then U of R runs the risk of being perceived as a place that fosters a petty, small-minded mindset. They can then elect lawmakers who take special care to ensure that U of R gets only the amount of state financial support (e.g., state-funded research grants) that it absolutely has to get. If U of R wants to become a place for small-minded, petty people, then it can do that without public funds.

  2. James McCarthy Avatar
    James McCarthy

    Leigh is a skilled and polished apologist. Comparing two flawed views only excuses both. Whenever it existed, slavery is immoral. That is the starting point and no rationalization or equivalencies or shortcomings can justify it.

    His statistical citation in 1968 ignores that Loving v Virginia was decided in 1967. Sure, American history is constantly evolving especially its racial maturity. The “critically important argument” Leigh makes is precisely the reason that CRT is helpful to historical analyses.

    It might be well in the future to characterize Mr. Leigh’s narratives as apologist. Recall his recent comment that poll taxes were levied upon both Blacks and whites ignoring the historically recorded rationale for their existence—to discriminate against “negroes” as Carter Glass proclaimed. Glass, according to Leigh, was not nearly as politically correct as Freeman.

    1. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      “Whenever it existed, slavery is immoral.”

      Neither Douglass S Freeman nor Abraham Lincoln owned slaves nor, to the best of knowledge, believed that slavery was moral.

      1. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        Owning slaves does not exclude belief in it as a condition to be accommodated. That, as Shakespeare noted, is the question. Whether it is nobler to suffer the slings and arrows or take arms against a sea of trouble. Were slavery condemned by religions and institutions, its spread and acceptance might have been restricted.

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          You have no evidence that either Douglass S Freeman or Abraham Lincoln believed that slavery was a “condition to be accommodated”. I daresay that Lincoln ultimately gave his his life for his stance against accommodating slavery.

          1. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            You assert something not in my comment relative to Freeman and Lincoln. From 1600 forward to perhaps the 13th Amendment slavery was not merely accommodated but cultivated. The contemporary issue is the toleration of its residual, I. e. racial discrimination.

          2. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            So, your comment had nothing to do with the article to which it was posted? If so, I’d ask that you use the /irr designator to indicate that your comment is irrelevant. Kind of like the /sarc indicator to indicate sarcasm.

        2. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Umm Hamlet’s contemplation if life is worth living has zero relevance. So we can add Literature to another class you seemingly would’ve failed, your comment is just another exercise in pseudo-intellectualism.

    2. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      Okay so Lincoln and Freeman cannot pass the modern morality test. Slavery is immoral whenever it existed. Agreed. Can we use that narrative on another important American blemish? Whenever it existed, abortion is immoral?

      1. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        No!

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead

          That is a no in the voice of Jefferson Davis and Alexander Stephens. How about that?

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        well it’s not a modern morality test as much as it is a question of should we have buildings named for people who supported segregation that black kids have to use today?

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead

          Can we change the name of the state capitol building? I find it offensive that our lawmakers wage war against the unborn year after year.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Do we have buildings named for pro-abortion folk?

    3. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      If you were ever capable of offering anything but presentism, now would be the time for you to use it. Elsewise, anything out of your mouth is just a bunch of words thrown at a page which say nothing. You can’t even generate an argument in logical fashion, you jump all over the place in this comment alone.

      Beyond that I highly suspect you’ve never passed a history class with the sheer amount of inaccurate BS you spew.

  3. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    Who knows how people today will be viewed in the future. Someday, in the future, all of the comments posted here may be expunged from the Internet of the future (Metaverse) because the posters were carnivores who ate animals.

    While that may seem absurd I can only imagine that in Douglass S Freeman’s day it would have seemed absurd to say that he would be de-memorialized in the future for his belief in “separate but equal” segregation.

    1. Perhaps, DJ, Mr. Freeman did not even “believe in” segregation but as editor of a local newspaper chose not to challenge publicly something so overwhelmingly accepted by his readers. I don’t know from his writings; but even leaders for change must pick their fights.

  4. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    Who knows how people today will be viewed in the future. Someday, in the future, all of the comments posted here may be expunged from the Internet of the future (Metaverse) because the posters were carnivores who ate animals.

    While that may seem absurd I can only imagine that in Douglass S Freeman’s day it would have seemed absurd to say that he would be de-memorialized in the future for his belief in “separate but equal” segregation.

  5. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Lincoln and Freeman did not live in the same era so comparing them their respective social norms would not be the same.

    Freeman lived in the Jim Crow era and was an avowed segregationist and did not support equal treatment of blacks.

    His history will never be erased (and shouldn’t) but the question is should his name be memorialized as an honored leader on a building that black students use today and whose parents and grand parents lived under Jim Crow and segregation?

    Pretty sure he’s no honored leader of theirs. He delivered no Emancipation Proclamation or anything similar.

    Ironically, he appears to be an originator of the phrase ‘The Virginia Way”.

    https://encyclopediavirginia.org/entries/not-the-virginia-way-february-9-1926/

    The thing is that white folks – for more than a century were apparently just fine with segregationists being memorialized in statues, building names, highways , and even schools and as far as I know never thought it was an insult to blacks.

    Now, they think it is wrong to take them down.

    They say it is “history” but they’re really memorials to people who supported slavery, segregation and disparate treatment of blacks and sitting in public places that black people use.

    It’s hard to understand – why they do not seem to understand.

    There are places were these memorials should be. Those places are not public places where blacks have no choice to avoid like a school building.

    Put them where people who want to see them, can do so without forcing them on others who do no revere them.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      I love the argument on behalf of Freeman that “times were different” coming from a bunch of old f@rts whose formative guidance came from fathers who lived in those times and who paid for their private schooling.

      1. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
        YellowstoneBound1948

        You have used your one sentence to insult a lot of people. I can visualize you sitting in the “kitchen” of your Levitt-town built split-level, wondering what you will say next, smirking over the fact that you never had to be more than a 9th grade civics teacher. Sorry, I used two sentences (not including this one).

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          A lot? Hopefully, it was as many as possible.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Are black folks insulted by this? Do we care if they are?

      2. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        My father was 25 in the year Freeman died and I never attended a day of private school.

        Beyond that, my father always cited the fact that Black men fought and died in the Korean War (in which my Dad also fought) and that was all that anybody needed to know when it came to integration, equal rights, etc.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          “My father was 25 in the year Freeman died and I never attended a day of private school.”

          Self made.

    2. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      Larry writes … “Freeman lived in the Jim Crow era and was an avowed segregationist and did not support equal treatment of blacks.”

      The article states …

      “Let us now consider the comparative racial attitudes of Lincoln and Freeman. Both believed in racial segregation, although Freeman argued that the separate black public facilities should be the equal to those of whites.”

      Larry, do you have any evidence for your refutation of the point in the article?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Freeman was not even born when Lincoln was alive. Freeman did not issue an Emancipation Proclamation. Lincoln did not live in the South during the era of Jim Crow.

        Yes, Freeman did argue ‘separate but equal”, i.e. private schools for whites and whatever blacks could figure out with little or no help. Separate bathrooms, separate public facilities.

        Jim Crow –

        So the REAL question is do you think it is an insult to black students to have to use a building named for someone who practiced Jim Crow against their parents and grand parents?

        Do you think the guy means something special and worthy of memorialization to black students?

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          “Yes, Freeman did argue ‘separate but equal”, i.e. private schools for whites and whatever blacks could figure out with little or no help.”

          You make assertions with no evidence. If you have some evidence of the “fact” that Freeman actually believed in separate but unequal please provide it.

          The man did win two Pulitzer Prizes so he has a literary legacy.

          Do you believe that any famous Blacks who were among the 73% of Blacks who believe that inter-racial marriage was wrong should also be canceled?

          I don’t really care about some plantation elitist from Richmond. I just want to understand the rules.

          Apparently, in your mind, there is some date between Lincoln and Freeman when supporting segregation became wrong. What date is that?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            “separate but equal” was clearly not. There is more than ample evidence of that.

            You are reaching , guy. You’re essentially saying that one has to “prove” that separate but equal was not. The evidence to that is abundant.

            re: the date.

            Nope. You’re missing the entire point.

            it’s about young black kids going to school in a building named for someone who was an avowed racist who worked to support racist policies against the black students fathers and grandfathers.

            Do blacks get a vote on this or is it basically something white folks decide?

          2. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Lincoln also advocated for segregation. Should schools named after him also be renamed. That’s the damn question, Larry. Please answer that question. A simple “yes” or “no” will suffice.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            It’s the way you want to frame it but it’s wrong. Comparing Lincoln to Jim Crow segregation a half century after he died is myopic and wrong IMHO.

            Besides that , don’t black folks get to decide this? Why are white folks so involved when it did not involve them the way that blacks were affected?

          4. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            So, you have in mind some year before which supporting segregation was acceptable while after that year it was not.

            What year?

  6. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
    YellowstoneBound1948

    Does anyone here really know how they would have felt about desegregation had they been born in Virginia the year that Freeman was born? No, of course not. So, why don’t we all ease up on Freeman? To be honest, there are times when I think, had I been alive in 1775, that I would have been loyal to the Crown. The fact is, I don’t know. So much “moralizing” about the unknown goes on here.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Are you asking how black folks felt or feel about it, now and then?

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Har! Good one.

        1. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
          YellowstoneBound1948

          The silliest person here demonstrating his/her familiarity with one-third of “hardy-hardy-har.”

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Technically, 1/5, given poetic metering.

      2. YellowstoneBound1948 Avatar
        YellowstoneBound1948

        I am asking you stop moralizing. If you are unfamiliar with the word, look it up. I have read enough of your posts to know that you are going to be on the “right” side of every issue from the beginning of time.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          very familiar with the word. How do you feel about black people and these memorials? Got a view?

          Do their opinions count on this issue?

      3. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        “They fault Freeman for opposing interracial marriage, even though 75% of whites and 73% of blacks opposed it in 1968, fifteen years after Freeman’s death.”

        Apparently, the attitudes of Black people changed over time too.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          that’s not the point – that’s a diversion from the actual issue which is why should black students be forced to go to class in a building named for the guy that practiced racial discrimination, racism towards their parents and grand parents?

          1. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Why should Black people be forced to see the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, DC when Lincoln believed in segregation?

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            They’re not. They can choose not to be there and they can weigh in on their views about Lincoln.

            Why is it that white folks decide these issues that affect blacks and blacks views are largely ignored?

          3. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            How many schools are named after Lincoln?

            You simply won’t address the point of the article – which is that both Lincoln and Freeman advocated for segregation. Why should one be de-memorialized but not the other?

            Please answer that specific question.

            If your belief is that Lincoln pre-dated Freeman and, therefore, can be excused for his segregationist views, please provide the date when segregationist views stopped being acceptable.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            It’s not my ‘belief”, it’s the facts.

            Lincoln is judged on his whole record DJ.

            He free the slaves. He worked to get them justice in the south. He fought a war to free them.

            Who should judge him more on whether he was a “segregationist” just like JIM CROW segregationists? white folks?

            That’s what is missing here.

            It’s like the views of black folks don’t count and white folks know how black folks feel or should feel about it.

            Don’t you find that a big ‘white”?

          5. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            So, Lincoln should be judged on his whole record but Freeman should not? Or, you are the arbiter of the value of a long-dead people’s lives and you have decided that Lincoln’s life is worth memorializing while Freeman’s is not?

  7. Donald Smith Avatar
    Donald Smith

    It appears that U of R is fostering a mindset and worldview that is petty and small-minded. Virginia taxpayers might conclude that, seeing that Richmond is a private college, my legislators should exercise special care to ensure that any state dollars (e.g., funding for research projects) goes elsewhere. Petty, small-minded institutions should pay their own way in life.

    I submit that we are all free to conclude that U of Richmond would, if it could, apply the new “Freeman Standard” to all American historical figures. I wonder how much it will cost to demolish the Iwo Jima Memorial? The Marines were segregated during WWII, so under the Freeman Standard (or, should we call it the “U of R Standard?”), that memorial can’t be celebrated anymore. (I guess we could move it to the wastewater treatment plant). I’ll bet that plenty of the men who fought and died on Iwo Jima would be considered racists nowadays.

    Those people who are pushing this new level of cultural cleansing might want to consider that it makes them look petty and small-minded. They come off as cultural bullies. No one likes a bully, or a petty, small-minded person. And Americans writ large are heartily sick of cancel culture. Those people might look around one day, and find that the rest of America have decided that they are silly, and it’s best to ignore them. No one puts stock in what a silly person (or segment of society) says or thinks.

  8. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Absolutely of no interest to me. It would make as much sense to argue the slavery and racial views of Napoleon versus Caesar. When Jim gets into this “Defense of the Noble White Man” mode, giving the lefties a platform for the equally stupid “All White Men are Evil” theme, I find myself exploring Substack.

    1. First, Phil Leigh wrote this column, not me.

      Second, as I explained in the top comment, I was ambivalent about publishing the piece, but I thought Leigh made raised an important issue — what is the appropriate standard for judging past historical figures? So, I do object to your put-down of “Jim [getting] into his ‘Defense of the Noble White Man’ mode.”

      Our society is undergoing a momentous re-evaluation of its past, nowhere more so than in Virginia. I think it’s entirely appropriate to examine the criteria we use in undertaking that reevaluation.

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        Societies undergo momentous reevaluations of their past all the time. You want real culture warriors, check out the Taliban of our own time and the French Revolution of a few centuries back. The damaged church art is still on display in France. You can give Leigh and others as much access as you want, but they are apologists for an evil practice, an evil war to preserve that practice, and the bad times that continued until you and I were around. They lost all this decades ago and just can’t see they are embarrassing themselves.

        I did not support those who tore down statues or committed vandalism, but when a lawful public process preceded their removal, reflecting public opinion, that was fine with me. Likewise, if
        U of R wants to change the building name, or leave it, makes no difference to me. How many days until you give him a third opportunity to wave his bloody flag in defense of dead racists?

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          Well, apparently there is a Douglass S Freeman High School in your neck of the woods. You are a voter / taxpayer in Henrico County, I believe. What would you have to say about that public high school’s name?

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_S._Freeman_High_School

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            And I keep asking you about T.C. Williams in NoVa.

            the fundamental question here is why should any black student have to attend school in a building named for someone who advocated racist policies against their parents and grand parents?

            How is that justified?

            Is this yet another example of White Supremacy when whites continue to advocate this claiming it’s “history”. Whose history?

          2. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            TC Williams High School has been renamed. It is now Alexandria City High School.

            Lincoln favored segregation. That is a clear historical fact. Should Lincoln be de-memorialized?

            What are your rules, Larry?

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Was TC Williams a segregationist who lived in NoVa and white folks memorialized him by naming a school after him/

            True?

            Why is what Alexandria did in renaming the school right and that same action not justified for other places named for segregationists?

            Lincoln did favor segregation. He also favored and end to slavery, delivered the Emancipation Proclamation and fought a way to free the slaves.

            Should black folks have a vote on Lincoln or is it a white folks-only thing where white folks decide for blacks?

          4. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            There does not seem to have been a lot of calls for changing the names of the school. The school did change its mascot from “Rebels” to “Mavericks”.

            There is also a Mills Godwin High School.

            I assume that there has not been pressure to change the names of these schools because their student bodies are predominantly white.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            yes, funny thing about predominately white schools not being concerned with the name of the school being a segregationist.

            Imagine that!

            Oh, and white folks also weigh in on whether black folks should be concerned about schools they might attend being named for segregationists.

            For more than a century, we have had schools, highways, public buildings and public square monuments named for racists and segregationists and white folks were apparently not concerned about it and what black folks thought about it was not really relevant apparently.

            They apparently have no right to oppose the schools they attend being named for segregationists. It’s a white folks issue.

        2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
          Dick Hall-Sizemore

          You have expressed it so well that I have nothing of value to add other than “I agree”.

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      It’s not that at all. “Owning the Libs” is the battle cry…. now that owning black (notice lower case) people is verboten.

  9. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Jim, You may be “ambivalent” about publishing Leigh and I am “ambivalent” about reading him. So why do you post him?

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Uh, by my count at least seven times in a few months, all on the same general topic. The one on Jefferson should have been a Saturday Night Live sketch. Plus numerous others on the same topic. But don’t say “Defense of the Noble White Man” is a theme….

      Damn it is lonely to be a Mountain Valley, GAR Republican in the midst of the Confederate reunion the modern Republican Party wants to hold…Wake me when they actually hold a Lincoln Day dinner in Richmond.

      You know, when you are I both are sending him the same message, that says something.

    2. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      Well … when you see the byline you can always skip to the next article.

      I think Leigh raises an interesting point … If being a segregationist is worthy of de-memorializing (as was he case at UR with DR Freeman) should Abraham Lincoln be de-memorialized?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        You missed it DJ. It’s not being a segregationist – by itself – it’s a segregationist memorialized in a school that black students attend.

        How is that justified?

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          How many statues, memorials and schools are named after Abraham Lincoln? Must be hundreds or thousands.

          Should they all be renamed based on Lincoln’s segregationist views?

          That’s the point, Larry.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            The point is , do blacks get to decide this issue or do white folks gets to decide it for them?

            should black folks decide who they consider segregationists worthy of de-memorializing (or not) or is this something only white folks are allowed to do?

        2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
          Dick Hall-Sizemore

          It should be more than that, Larry. It should be whether a community wants to memorialize a segregationist regardless of how many black students attend the school.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            And I agree, but for some folks you have to distill it down to the essence.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yes. but when you include white folks who oppose the segregationist naming, the white folks who support it, make it a ‘moral issue” dispute between white folks and ignore how black folks feel.

            Instead, it essentially about white folks morals and values.

            That’s what I find so offensive about such views, as if how black folks feel is not even considered or relevant, not even mentioned.

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