CO2 Taxes, Gas Rationing Poll Badly With Voters

By Steve Haner

The Transportation and Climate Initiative plan to tax and ration motor fuels suffered a major setback just before Christmas, when eight of the eleven states considering it decided not to move forward in 2021. Less than two weeks earlier, advocates had released polling that claimed to show overwhelming popularity for the idea. 

The well-funded supporters conducted a massive 60-question survey of 3,800 registered voters, including enough Virginians that a Virginia-only breakout had some credibility. Virginians contacted supported Virginia’s membership in the CO2 reduction scheme by three to one. Yet Virginia’s Governor Ralph Northam was one of those who did not sign on a few days later.

Perhaps he noticed how biased the key question was, including this: “Under TCI, states will cap carbon pollution from the transportation sector and require gasoline companies to pay for the carbon pollution produced by the fuel they sell by purchasing annual allowances.” Respondents were not told that the “gasoline companies” could be expected to pass those costs along to them.

When you tell voters a bit more about the proposal, including that they will have to pay, support rapidly disappears, although not completely.

A year ago, the Thomas Jefferson Institute for Public Policy, surveying a similar number of Virginians, asked two simple questions on the issue. Just as this poll found, the benefits claimed for Virginia’s membership in TCI proved popular with more than 60% of voters, but a second question mentioning the likely TCI gas tax dropped that support substantially to about 34%, with 58% opposed.

With a legislative struggle over TCI membership expected to start in January, the Jefferson Institute repeated the process in December 2020, asking Mason-Dixon Polling & Strategy to query 625 Virginians again. This time 37% of Virginians supported the interstate carbon tax compact with its expected fuel taxes, and 57% opposed it. Even in more liberal Northern Virginia, opponents outnumbered supporters.

This time around, questions were also posed about the rationing element of the plan, which proved even less popular than the carbon taxes.

“QUESTION: Do you support or oppose capping the amount of gasoline and diesel that can be sold, allowing no additional supply at any price?”  That is exactly what TCI would do, set hard state and regional caps on the supply of gasoline and diesel for sale. Only 11% of Virginians overall liked that idea, and 78% opposed it. In Northern Virginia 15% supported it, and it drew the same weak endorsement from Democrats in the sample.

Once set, the fuel cap would then decline annually until TCI’s goal of a 25% reduction in carbon emissions from fuel was achieved. “QUESTION: Do you support or oppose shrinking that fuel cap annually, reducing the available supply every year?”

That proved a bit more popular, with 16% in support and 70% in opposition. In Northern Virginia 22% approved, and 23% of Democrats approved. The difference from the other question was probably the absence in the second of the phrase “allowing no additional supply at any price.” That is, however, how the rationing element of this interstate compact would work.

Demand for fuel is “inelastic,” meaning people still want it at a higher price. Only the carbon taxes coupled with the supply caps will reduce the amount of motor fuels burned in Virginia. Neither approach is popular with voters at this time, according to the Mason-Dixon results.

The voters were also split on using the carbon tax revenue “to subsidize electric cars and trucks, and mass transit,” with 47% overall (58% of Northern Virginians, 73% of Democrats) favoring that outcome. Of all the proposed uses for the money, that is the best if you want people to move away from fossil fuel cars and trucks. Building bike lanes won’t do that.

But the prospect of spending TCI tax dollars that way has already triggered a response from environmental justice advocates, one of whom called TCI a tax on the poor to subsidize rich people’s electric cars.

Governor Northam, of course, did not have access to the new Jefferson Institute polling. If he and the legislative supporters of TCI believed the spin on the advocates’ polling and its Virginia results, they had no reason to fear political backlash. Yet they wisely chose not to move forward, not yet anyway.

Any program that cannot be discussed honestly, that is sold by misleading the public, should be immediately suspected by the people of Virginia and their elected General Assembly. People must be honestly told that TCI would raise the price of gasoline by 20, 30 or even more cents per gallon, and that the supply of fuel would be capped in place and then reduced by 25 percent over the next decade.

To imply the fuel companies would eat that cost is an outrageous misrepresentation. The full cost of any imposed carbon tax will merely be passed on to the ultimate consumer at the pump. So would price increases caused by supply and demand pressures. The proponents’ question also referred to a cap on “carbon pollution,” when in reality the TCI regime will cap gasoline and diesel sales. The thumb on the scale in the question is obvious.

Initially published this morning by the Thomas Jefferson Institute for Public Policy. 


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65 responses to “CO2 Taxes, Gas Rationing Poll Badly With Voters”

  1. “Carbon Pollution”
    I would just like to point out, when a human being exhales, that air is 8% CO2 or 80000-ppm CO2. Now that we know from the liberals how extremely toxic CO2 is to the human body, does that mean we are all dead? This is not reality?

    Jim…please pinch me…damn I do not feel anything yet.

    Look as discussed in recent days, US Liberals are pursuing a terrorism agenda on CO2/fossil fuels. We have 24/7 CO2 Armageddon in the media. Of course, if we do a poll, people are scared to death.

    I cannot predict the future, but its possible the terrorism will subside and then the polls will change.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Uh, yep. And that CO2 is in the current bio-cycle. The carbon dioxide in your breath came from the plants and animals you ate, which in turn will be taken up by the plants and animals that you will eat… or will eat you… either way.

      The carbon in the tailpipe came from stores of carbon in fossils.

      1. You may not like this real-world experiment, and I am quite sure I would not have recommended it either, but fossil fuels are apparently taking us to a world population of 10 Billion humans. Enter Nancy_Naive to tell us God never wanted humans to use fossil fuels. Excuse me while I make 9,500,000,000 xerox copies of the letter telling people why we have to terminate their lives to get back to terra firma.

        Look I went to a Virginia DEQ public meeting on the Clean Power Plan. Amer Lung Asscoc spokesperson was putting on the public record the “facts” of extreme toxicity of CO2 killing tens of thousands of Virginias every year. There is NO toxicity of Co2.

        Somebody pls check my world population above, I feel like too many zeros in there.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Soylent Green

    2. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Mainly 1) another little essay on question bias and 2) a way to get our poll results out. Spent some money with Mason-Dixon and then the Governor took the issue off the table for ’21, or so it seems. No, TBill, in ten years somebody will compile another list of failed climate catastrophe predictions, and then another one after that. This is a darn useful political tool for maintaining control over an economy. The pandemic tactics line up nicely with the GNG agenda.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        “No, TBill, in ten years somebody will compile another list of failed climate catastrophe predictions, and then another one after that.

        How will you know?

        Is your prediction based on modeling and the scientific method? Or your Tarot cards?

      2. I feel the eco-concerns, popular with the American public, go in cycles like fads. So after maybe another 10-years, if we pass the new doomsday deadline which is 10 years from now, so 2030, if we are still status quo, people will realize the short term hysteria was, well hysteria, and we are talking a longer term time horizon to get our Earth-act in order.

        If on the other hand we do have a bona fide real-life (not Chicken Little) falling of the sky, like we lose Florida, then we will *all* still be focus on the short term fix, and I won’t call it a fad.

        The liberal position is immediate Armageddon awaits us.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I think the reason they pulled back was the pandemic.

          The “anti” folks try to tar the ones who support reducing pollution as “liberals” and “eco-weenies” – and some of them are – but there are also a significant number of people who are not your typical “liberals” who are concerned about climate change.

          Not just one poll, but many, confirm this.

          Of course the folks who oppose want to believe that they are the mainstream and the anti-pollution folks are the radicals,, but in the real world – the mainstream believes there is climate change and we must take action.

          Even, well over a third of Conservatives believe so.

          https://www.pewresearch.org/science/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2020/06/PS_2020.06.23_government-and-climate_00-03.png?resize=420,630

  2. Yep, that is exactly how I framed it: dollars and cents. It didn’t go over like the pols thought it would.

  3. Baconator with extra cheese Avatar
    Baconator with extra cheese

    Don’t these new taxes disproportionately affect economically disadvantaged and thus, in Virginia, disproportionately affect BIPOCs?
    How in the heck does the woke GA and Dr Governor allow that to happen?
    And won’t these taxes affect good union jobs and future union jobs? I guess they get an even richer gimme somewhere else down the line.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      I do think the heavier impact on low income residents was a major factor in Northam taking a pass on this during this election year. Somebody should ask him. No, wait, see other string about death of news media….

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        No Steve. You do know that you shouldn’t believe everything you write on the internet, right?

    2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Nah. Soon, as in other countries, the ED will fill buckets with gasoline taken from the pipelines.

  4. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    I would agree that how the poll(s) are worded to effect the answers.

    Further , most folks won’t willingly agree to pay higher taxes even if it’s for a good reason – like cleaning up the Chesapeake Bay.

    Also – why are nitrogen and phosphorous considered “pollution”? They obviously are very beneficial to grow things so why are we should we restrict it? If it helps corn and wheat, surely it helps bay grasses and such, right?

    Do people support anti-pollution efforts? Like getting rid of coal and cleaning up coal ash? Is there a poll for that?

    So… anyone can set up a scenario and narrative and guide it to a desired conclusion for sure.

    The bigger question is, for not one poll, but many, where do most folks stand on believing that climate change is real and we need to act?

    Don’t ask Conservtives like TJ this question – you already know the answer. The question is do they represent a majority of citizens?

    1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
      TooManyTaxes

      It’s a helluva lot easier to see the impacts of say higher sanitary sewer charges on the Chesapeake Bay. How does one demonstrate the impact of high taxes and fees on climate change? If we impose the fees for say 10 years and achieve appropriate reductions in greenhouse gas emissions, what is the reduction in the temperature change from what would have occurred without the higher taxes and fees? How much less will the sea rise with the higher costs?

      Only a fool will knowingly spend money for unknowable results. And what about India and China? Of course, the media won’t ask the Guy Who Flunked 3rd Grade about that.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Let me ask. Do you know how much you pay to the abandoned fuel tank cleanup fund? How about how much you pay for your car insurance that goes to transportation funding?

        1. TooManyTaxes Avatar
          TooManyTaxes

          Larry, you miss the point. We are being told that we need to pay a lot more for energy to discourage its use and to reduce the pace of warming. So how much will the reduction be when this plan is adopted? It’s a very simple question. But I doubt anyone can answer it.

          In any other area, this would be actionable fraud.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            TMT – You may be right but I don’t think that increase will really discourage consumption because cars are already much more efficient.

            It wasn’t that long ago that gasoline was what? almost 4$ a gallon and all it did was encourage people to buy more efficient cars?

            Remember also, the “gas guzzler” tax… ?

            I actually thought they would use the money collected to pay tax credits for more fuel efficient cars, no?

          2. TooManyTaxes Avatar
            TooManyTaxes

            The whole spiel from the rabid climate people is that consumption of energy needs to be reduced, most especially if it comes from fossil fuels. If these reductions won’t occur, why should people pay more for energy?

            Compare taxes on cigarettes. The higher price is intended to reduce consumption. It seems to work. Demand for cigarettes has some elasticity? Does demand for gasoline and electricity? Not as much. That suggests to me that legislators and interest groups are intending to get other people’s money.

            Where are the lower prices for renewable energy that people tout?

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            The problem is that if all you listen to and react to are the radicals, you miss the real issue.

            You give cigarettes as an example but you really demonstrate just how high you’d have to boost a price to discourage consumption.

            The proposed tax on gasoline is no where near what it would have to be to discourage consumption. It would lhave to go to $4-5 a gallon like Canada and Europe does.

            Lower overall costs don’t happen overnight. It takes about a decade for older less efficient cars and HVACs to be replaced by more efficieint versions.

            It’s taken 20-30 years for more efficient, less polluting cars to have an effect to this point.

            And, some people STILL smoke cigarettes – not everyone will change.

  5. Steve on the gaso tax numbers, if we take Pennsylvania,
    58+18 = 76 cents tax, OK maybe 31% tax.

  6. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    In 1960 the New York Times ran an ad for an engineering firm out of Wichita, Kansas. Do It Yourself Oil refining. The rig fit on the back of a pickup truck and cost a mere 800 dollars.

    We have craft breweries, craft distilleries, and vineyards. Why not a craft oil refinery?

  7. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Yes! You could have India Pale Octane.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      The add claims you can refine your own 100 octane gallon of fuel at half the cost from distributors.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I think I’d rather have one of those carb gizmos that let you get 100 mpg but the oil companies are keeping from being produced.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          SparkMaster! It went on the coil and Dad swore by it.

        2. idiocracy Avatar
          idiocracy

          Yea, you’ll get 100mpg till a hole burns in a piston from running so lean.

          Seriously. With EFI and a tuner, you can adjust the air fuel ratios to do exactly what that 100mpg carburetor claimed to do.

          And destroy your engine in the process, assuming that the bucking and jerking of an engine running so lean doesn’t convince you to go back to normal.

  8. djrippert Avatar
    djrippert

    The only time tax increases poll well is when the increase can be held out as a tax on somebody else. Last time I looked Virginia’s EV share within the state was about 2% – but climbing fast. In other words, at least 90% of Virginia vehicles will be full or partially gasoline powered for some time to come.

    In honest terms, TCI will raise taxes on 90+% of Virginia vehicle owners.

    Seems like a good issue for Republicans as we roll toward November.

    Here is Kirk Cox’s campaign website …. https://kirkcox.com/meet-kirk/

    I can buy a Kirk Cox hat and learn that his mother was a teacher. I even get the extremely useful knowledge that Cox likes to play disc golf – whatever that is. He’s a deacon in his Baptist Church and the NRA really likes him.

    Great. Very useful … in 1965 perhaps.

    As far as issues – I don’t see them. Maybe he needs more time to consider these matters. After all, he’s only been in office 31 years.

    For the love of all that’s holy …. please, please, please convince Pete Snyder to run for governor. Or Chap Petersen.

  9. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    I like to ask a question. How many people know the State sales tax on a new car? How did they find out?

    And also, how many folks know their county tax rate on new vehicles?

    In my county, Spotsylvania – the property tax on a new car is HUNDREDS of dollars –
    https://www.spotsylvania.va.us/625/Tax-Rate

    $6.55 per hundred – $65.50 per thousand – $655per 10K of value. This is per year.

    A 20K car is taxed over a thousand dollars a year.

    NOW – think about HOW people might pay the tax per gallon of gasoline verses how they pay their vehicle tax and tell me which will cause the biggest yelp? No contest.

    1. idiocracy Avatar
      idiocracy

      This is one reason I have only ever bought one new car in my entire life.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        I’d rather down here (Spotys) than Fairfax county, a single payment for the year in December.

    2. The average car getting to $35K and easily $40k for a nice bottom-of-the-line F150 or Highlander Hybrid prob $45k, and the annual tax is really very progressive with higher car cost, and exceeds 5% now in some NoVA places, not including 4% state sales tax. So we are talking $thousands tax per year for a nicer new car like a Tesla or anything. This why Michael Vick was fined for $60000 back car taxes. I mean where else on God’s Green Earth is that 2019 news story even possible? Nowhere.

      PS- I was going to write a BR article about the Michael Vick story at the time, but had other stuff going on and did not get around it.

      1. idiocracy Avatar
        idiocracy

        This is how Virginia is able to have such “low” real estate taxes compared to other states that don’t have a personal property tax.

        It’s not that our local governments in Virginia are any more efficient or better stewards of tax dollars than elsewhere.

        20 years of living in Manassas Park disabused me of that notion.

  10. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    but that’s what “they” said – that it was a conspiracy among the oil companies to prevent people from getting better gas mileage…

    I saw it in comic books and even popular mechanics…full page ads… remember?

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      There are literally 10 of thousands of patents for 100 mpg carbs, they aren’t reliable or they don’t work at all.

      Even with NN’s SparkMaster, it lost it’s purpose when they made shielded plug wires, as all they did was stop interference.

      1. idiocracy Avatar
        idiocracy

        As I recall resistor spark plugs were developed to stop interference.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          You are correct, it was the plugs not the wires. However, still the end of the $3.00 SparkMasters needed use.

          1. idiocracy Avatar
            idiocracy

            and with the demise of AM radio (for most listeners), does anyone notice interference from their vehicle’s ignition system anymore? (Theoretically a bad spark plug wire could cause ignition interference).

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            There is always the ever fun loose ground wire awaiting it’s interference potential.

          3. idiocracy Avatar
            idiocracy

            It’s amazing how much extra grounding police vehicles like the Impala and the Crown Victoria got from the factory to reduce radio interference. They add extra ground straps to the exhaust pipe, the engine, the trunk lid, etc.

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            When radio came mean you life I suppose its warranted.

    2. idiocracy Avatar
      idiocracy

      One in a long list of products from charlatans designed to separate the gullible from their money.

  11. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    This is why TJ and Haners carbon tax boogeyman is crying “wolf”.

    The average person in Virginia pays out the wazoo for their later model car , 5, 10 times at one or two whacks a year versus what the average person pays per weekly gas fillup at the pump – what a couple of bucks?

    And that’s especially true if the price of gas stay level or goes down – which it almost surely will do as cars get more efficient and demand drops more. If the price of gas goes down, they won’t even know it. If it goes up, they’ll blame OPEC!

    But this is what TJ does… it’s their Schtick and Haner is their man!

    😉

    We have to have the horror stories from time to time: “The tax boogeyman commeth”.

    😉

  12. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Larry, I agree completely. All points of view are welcome but BR should not be a propaganda tool. I mean, it is so obvious. This isn’t free discourse. This is an orchestrated campaign. If that’s “ad hominem” too damn bad!

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      You might think it was Blue Virginia or Virginia Mercury!! WTF. Except you are welcome to chime in here, but they are totally one POV. Try to argue with them on their site. You inspire me….

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Well, for Steve, ANY tax is a hated thing and if had anything to do with global warming – it’s the devil incarnate!

    3. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Now hold on a minute here Mr. Peter. Your endless articles on southern culture and history; was that not a propaganda campaign as well? Was it not carefully orchestrated? Seems as sharp as a bowling ball to me.

  13. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Gee, Steve, thank you for saying I am welcome to chime in here. Have only been doing it for 15 years. Who made you the gatekeeper?

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      ouch ouch ouch

    2. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Well, I actually do have the nuclear codes….but my point is that here at BR we post something and Larry’s alarm goes off and the sometimes useful and sometimes pointless debate is off and running. Sometimes I jump quickly on your post. Try doing that at those other sites. They put up shameless propaganda (VM), hate and discontent (BV) and there is no running debate. We “terrible” conservatives give the libs a forum, but the favor is not returned….Zullo knows me, maybe even kinda likes me, but he isn’t going to let me write there! Your side is too fragile…

  14. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    JWW,
    My views are mine, honed over years. The others are the Virginia Way. Bought and paid for. Thank God I am not a Virginian!

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Ah but you are a Virginian Mr. Peter. Your story and experience is now woven into the tapestry of the Old Dominion. You will probably be buried in Old Virginny too. I own some extra plots in Chatham and Front Royal if you need one. Not too soon of course. Happy New Years! I would add one of those fancy smiley faces but I don’t know how.

  15. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    “ at BR we post?” Who the fuck made you the editor? Do you and your flak interests now own this blog?

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Oh, cool your jets. “We” is all of us who post on our own, without getting Jim to put it up.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Uh… oh, put. Never mind.

    2. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      Someone has to clean up the BS you call writing.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        That could apply to so many of us…..

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          BR speech police? 😉 Some here think they are?

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      My hero. Can’t wait until they attack me! (I actually don’t think Schnare even gets paid by TJI, but I’m not sure about that….) Given how worthless and corrupt all of us are, why did the Governor do as we asked and pass on membership?

      Ironically, while they were scrambling to prepare this classic ad hominem screed, I was down at the 2020 General Assembly getting the Northam Administration to concede to Schnare’s main point, that only the General Assembly could impose these requirements and taxes. RGGI was first done by reg, but TCI could not be.

  16. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Don’t you think it is even a little bit ironic that TJIPP commissions a poll that comes up with results backing its position on TCI?

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      No more or less than when TCI advocates commission a poll and breathlessly announce such strong public support! I always recommend people review the questions before accepting the results as advertised…..and that was the point of the post. Your bias makes you blind.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        Polling is always the go to answer, however most people don’t accept the fact that you can design a poll from the answer you desire just by framing the questions or the words.

  17. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Well, gee, that explains everything!

  18. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    I don’t think one poll proves much especially if it is commissioned by supporters. But multiple polls over time and/or Gallup/Pew type polls and polls take by opponents – taken together give some semblance of the reality and trends.

    Multiple polls tend to ask the questions differently also.

    this is an example of a question that is “polluted” :

    ” QUESTION: If joining the Transportation Climate Initiative meant an additional tax on automotive gasoline and diesel, starting at 18 cents per gallon and rising higher, while reducing money set aside for road repairs and new road construction, would you support or oppose Virginia joining the Transportation Climate Initiative?”

    Where did we get that we’d reduce money set aside for roads?
    How did that get included in a poll about TCI?

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