Climate Change Commission Ponders Recommendations

The Governor’s Commission on Climate Change has issued a draft interim report summing up the testimony from five sessions of public hearings. To my mind, the most compelling graphic in the document shows that the intensity of energy use in Virginia is twice that of several advanced European countries.

Virginia — 345 million BTUs per capita (2005)
United Kingdom — 165 million BTUs
Germany — 176 million BTUs
France — 182 million BTUs

While there is undoubtedly some relationship between the intensity of energy consumption and a nation’s (or state’s) standard of living, it is an increasingly tenuous one as some societies pursue conservation strategies and others ignore them. Virginians may enjoy a living standard that is somewhat higher than that of the Brits, Germans and French, but it is not by any stretch of the imagination twice as high. The ineluctable conclusion is that European societies are simply more energy-efficient than our own.

The good news is that we have extraordinary potential to reduce our energy consumption (and greenhouse gas emissions) without significantly impacting our living standards. Indeed, insofar as energy conservation reduces our outlays for energy, we stand to raise our standard of living while also safeguarding energy security and reducing pollution.

The Climate Change commission discusses many strategies for reducing energy consumption and greenhouse gas emissions. Ideas range from reforesting marginal crop and pastureland (trees are a “terrestrial carbon sink”) to generating more electricity with renewable fuels (windmills don’t burn fossil fuels), from shifting to hybrid vehicles to embracing land use patterns associated with fewer Vehicle Miles Traveled (both of which reduce gasoline consumption).

The commission has not yet identified which strategies it will recommend in order to meet the Virginia Energy Plan goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions 30 percent by 2025. The task force is breaking into work groups to weigh the choices. While one group focuses on how Virginia can adapt to higher temperatures and higher sea levels, the other three will recommend ways to reduce greenhouse emissions, concentrating on (1) transportation and land use actions, (2) electricity generation and other sources, and (3) the built environment.

As one would expect from a commission that represents a broad cross section of interest groups, there are differences of opinion on how to drive the economic change needed to combat climate change. According to my sources, one approach emphasizes entrepreneurial creativity and innovation, the other government-mandated command and control. The recommendations that emerge in the final report slated for December will reflect a tug of war between the two.

That final report will say volumes about how Virginia will face the future.


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45 responses to “Climate Change Commission Ponders Recommendations”

  1. Anonymous Avatar

    Twice the energy consumption doesn’t match the dta I have seen.

    Higher, yes, but not twice.

    RH

  2. Anonymous Avatar

    http://www.environment.gov.au/soe/2006/publications/drs/indicator/330/index.html

    Shows an example of the problem. This data is for Australia, but it is probably common.

    The right hand column shows how Energy use per GDP has gone down over the years, and the next column shows how energy use per capita has gone up.

    We get more efficient, but we use more energy.

    RH

  3. Anonymous Avatar

    Jim,
    I’m not expert on this but this seems to show that the Euros are a lot better at pollution control, especially C02. The European Union has a cap and trade system that’s only in the early legislative stages here or just small and voluntary.
    Plus France has a record of lots of nuclear power and has a very safe record with lots of government oversight.
    When you add up all that Dominion and Apco shunt off from their coal plants and all the sprawl driven auto traffic, Virginia’s relative big position isn’t all that surprising. I know you want to call them “Euro-weenies.”

    Peter Galuszka

  4. Anonymous Avatar

    Peter’s comment made me wonder, given the roles played by the federal appropriations dollars and also the presence of so much equipment related to the Internet, how much do each and then both collectively play in levels of emissions?

    TMT

  5. Jim Bacon Avatar

    Peter, True, I do call them “Euro-weenies,” because they are, in fact… weenies. (Case in point: Serbia and Kosovo. Case in point: Russia and Georgia).

    However, I do give them their due. As nationalistic and jingoistic as I am, I am compelled by the facts to acknowledge that the Euros have developed much more energy-efficient economies than we have. While we Americans do some things very well, we’d be arrogant fools to think that other countries have nothing to teach us.

  6. Anonymous Avatar

    The real winner is Japan. They prduce almost as much GDP per capita as the U.S. and use energy at the same rate as France and Germany. France and Germany use a lot less power, but they also produce a lot less GDP for the power they use.

    In terms of Energy efficiency, (BTU per GDP), Japan is number one and U.S. is number four. France is number 3, I think. The U.S produces 70 times as much GDP per power used as India. We alsu use a lot more power per erson than India.

    RH

  7. Anonymous Avatar

    Another thing to remember about Europe is that they buy mainly refined petroleum products, while the US refnes a lot of crude. This uses energy which gets reported as US usage. But the Europeans essentiall export this energy usage (and the resulting pollution) by having their refineries in Dubai or someplace.

    Then Dubai shows huge amounts of energy used per person, but it is a false number because much of it rightfully belongs to the Europeans.

    RH

  8. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    It would be more enlightening if the use were at least broken down between electricity and transportation.

    if you look at electricity alone:

    Electricity consumption per capita Units: Kilowatt-hours (kWh) per person (sorted low to high):

    Poland 3325.3
    Portugal 4383.2
    Italy 5580.4
    Spain 5700.8
    United Kingdom 6201.2
    Denmark 6601.9
    Netherlands 6747.6
    Germany 6900
    France 7585.5
    Switzerland 8119.9
    Belgium 8413.6
    United States 13242.8
    Sweden 15360.6
    Finland 16427.2
    Norway 23195.8

    I would posit that the two biggies are:

    1. – larger American homes where all rooms are heated/cooled regardless whether they are occupied or not.

    2. – tankless water heaters

    The Scandanavian Countries use a LOT of electricity though and by RH’s theory…they should have the highest GDP per use…. right?

    and a comment.

    I think many, if not most Americans if they had a smart meter and actually knew how much it was costing to heat/cool all rooms and hot water that they would probably buy higher efficiency technology that would automatically reduce heating/cooling that was not needed.

    I don’t think they’d give up their 3000 square foot homes and unlimited hot water showers… though…

  9. I thought I’d take a look at the Virginia Secretary of Natural Resources Bio. This thought came to me when I read his name was L. Preston Bryant, Jr. Just the name fairly reeked of Richmondism. And where did L. Preston get his money?

    “Secretary Bryant also was a partner in a Virginia-based engineering, surveying, and planning firm that specialized in the design of large-scale residential, commercial and industrial developments as well as transportation facilities.”.

    Hey TMT – I thought only Fairfax County let large scale developers run amok. Do the right thing here TMT – add 1 to the Revoke Dillon’s Rule tally.

  10. Anonymous Avatar

    “and by RH’s theory…they should have the highest GDP per use…. right?”

    I didn’t posit any theory. All I said was that yes, we use a lot of electricity, and our GDP is also higher.

    Even though we produce more GDP with less electricity per GDP today than 20 years ago, we still use more electricity overall.

    Efficiency by itself has NOT decreased electrical usage.

    If you compare energy use to GDP, the U.S. is number four. We are highly energy efficient. Japan is far and away the best.

    Considering the size of our nation and our output, it isn’t surprising tht we use more energy than a place like Austria.

  11. Anonymous Avatar

    Groveton – It’s my recollection that Secretary Bryant was from Lynchburg and was a Republican member of the House of Delegates who voted to support Mark Warner’s tax increases and that he later accepted a cabinet appointment from Tim Kaine.

    TMT

  12. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    re: correlating GDP per capita with electricity use per capita.

    If that were true – then wouldn’t the biggest users of electricity per capita also sport the highest GDP per capita?

    I thought that was what was being implied…

    further observation –

    if industrialized Europe uses about 1/2 the electricity that we do (sans Scandanavia) does that mean.. we could cut our greenhouse gases substantially if we adopted the same efficiencies that Europe uses?

    Another thing that Europe uses is radiant floor heating …

    …”…preferred in Europe since the 1970s…. More economical to operate than furnaces, RFH can slash heating costs by 25 to 50 percent [source: U.S. Department of Energy]”

    http://home.howstuffworks.com/radiant-floor-heating.htm

  13. Anonymous Avatar

    “Number of nuclear power plants in France: 59

    Percent of electric power production in France from nuclear: 87.5% (see chart above)

    World’s largest net exporter of electric power: France, exporting 18% of its total production to Italy, the Netherlands, Britain, and Germany

    Electricity costs in France: For industry ($.0533 per kWh in 2007), the lowest in Europe; for households ($.1515 per kWh), among the lowest in Europe”

    http://www.mjperry.blogspot.com/

  14. Anonymous Avatar

    And industry ispaying a loer price because……..?

    RH

  15. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    re: …”..$.1515 per kWh), among the lowest in Europe”

    isn’t that about twice as much as what most Virginian’s pay?

  16. I hate agreeing with Larry.

    But if you do break it down into electricity use vs. transportation (and I don’t know where he got his numbers) you can see that we are marginally less efficient in electricity use, and the majority of our ‘waste” is in driving.

    Electricity use is also related to pricing; EU pricing is about 2X that of Virginia. Given that pricing, I’d suspect we would fall into a middle-range EU target for electricity use. We don’t have much industry, and don’t need the heaters that Nordic countries have.

    Reducing VMT, as I have advocated, to a UK level (9K miles a year) would NOT help with GHG as we have more cars per person than the UK.

  17. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Actually.. I’m not sure how you think we do agree on electricity..

    if we take out Scandinavia, per capita electricity use looks like this:

    Italy 5580
    Spain 5700
    United Kingdom 6201
    Netherlands 6747
    Germany 6900
    France 7585
    Switzerland 8119
    United States 13242

    http://earthtrends.wri.org/searchable_db/index.php?theme=6

    so … it appears …that much of Europe pays about twice as much for electricity – and uses half as much.

    If our electricity were twice as much as it is now… would it result in the same usage reduction via adoption of efficiencies used in Europe?

  18. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    Here’s the gasoline per capita:
    Russian Federation 230
    Spain 243
    Portugal 251
    France 260
    Belgium 263
    Netherlands 336
    Austria 337
    Italy 345
    Germany 403
    Greece 428
    United Kingdom 436
    Finland 455
    Denmark 461
    Norway 461
    Slovenia 491
    Ireland 513
    Sweden 594
    Iceland 651
    Switzerland 656
    Canada 1,204
    Luxembourg 1,621
    United States 1,635

    http://earthtrends.org/searchable_db

    I have no idea what is going on with Luxembourg ….. but clearly for the rest of Europe… we use twice to three times as much gasoline.

    the average new car in Europe gets 40mpg and no.. it’s not a SUV.

  19. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    oops! that’s in liters..not gallons…

  20. larry thanks.

    Luxembourg has much lower gas taxes so drivers from Belgium, France and Germany drive over to fill up there. Also true of Andorra.

  21. Anonymous Avatar

    re: …”..$.1515 per kWh), among the lowest in Europe”

    isn’t that about twice as much as what most Virginian’s pay?

    I was asking why the huge disparity in what indstry pays and what consumers pay. Talk about using more and paying less.

    Maybe it is a locational thing: they charge residential users more because they have more costs in distribution.

    Or maybe industry has an effective lobby.

    RH

  22. Anonymous Avatar

    then wouldn’t the biggest users of electricity per capita also sport the highest GDP per capita?

    Yes, and they generally do. I sent JB a chart. The use of energy and GDP per capita are closely related, except for Japan which is a huge outlier. Onthe other hand, see the quote below which seems to indicate otherwise.

    “Which country had the highest economic growth from 1993 to 2003, measured by the average annual percentage increase in real Gross Domestic Product (GDP)?
    Everybody knows about China’s big growth, but at 8.9% it’s only enough for 4th place. The winner is Equatorial Guinea at 25.9%, due to its relatively recent exploitation of oil reserves. The other two ahead of China (Bosnia and Liberia) both experienced bounce-back growth after wars.”

    “Which country is most energy efficient, in terms of GDP per unit of energy use?
    This one is measured in “purchasing power parity dollars per kilogram of oil equivalent.” I take that to mean economic output per energy input. The winner is Peru, and the rest of the top-10 countries are strange bedfellows: Hong Kong, Bangladesh, Namibia, Morocco, Uruguay, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ireland, and Italy.”

    2006 figures.

    RH

    RH

  23. Anonymous Avatar

    My brother has radiant floor heating and likes it, but he notes that because of the large heat mass, you need to anticipate sudden drops in outside temperature, because it can’t recover as quickly as forced air, for example.

    Other radiant floor systems don’t have such a great mass. (His is buried in the slab).

    RH

  24. Anonymous Avatar

    “Which country has the greatest number of cars per 1,000 people?
    Unless you somehow already know the answer, don’t bother guessing. The winner is Lebanon at 732 cars per 1,000 people. The United States is 14th at 481 per 1,000.”

    Economist’s 2006 Pocket World in Figures

    RH

  25. Anonymous Avatar

    “We all know that GNP and GDP are imperfect indicators of well-being, but all use them nevertheless, having no alternative in most cases. Recently, however, a new indicator has come into use that arguably gives a better view of human well-being at the level life is lived. This is called Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) and basically indicates what people can buy with their incomes. In Japan, as shown in Figure 3, because prices are higher than the world average, PPP is less than GDP, while in poor countries, like India, prices are low and thus PPP is higher than GDP. Indeed, India’s income goes up by more nearly a factor of three. In addition to poverty, economic central-ization tends to increase the ratio of PPP to GDP, because the government owns many of the assets. In other words, you may only have $5.00 per month income but your rent is only $1.00 per month because the government owns the building and does not charge you the real cost. Thus a poor and centralized economy, like China, has a very large ratio, nearly eight, in fact.

    Normally, we lump India and China together in terms of GNP per capita, but those who have been to China and India, and thought about it, were probably very confused. Particularly in the rural areas, which hold the vast majority of people, life is not at all the same-China is much better off by whatever measure you choose: roads, water, bricks, electricity, schools, fuels, etc.; all things that are not available in most of rural India.”

    Imagine that. You can live better cheaper with big subsidies. No wonder government activity amounts to more than half of GDP in many countries.

    RH

  26. Larry:

    RE: average car in Europe gets 40 MPG.

    I don’t buy that figure, for a number of reasons.

    1) remember there is a difference between IMPERIAL gallons and US gallons. Not sure what measurement you are using. 40 Imperial gallons is 48 US gallons; 40 US gallons is 33 imperial.

    2) If average CAR in europe gets 40 MPG, an average CAR in the US gets about 30. The key is the number of SUV sales. Granted, Lincoln Navigators are not popular in the EU, but something like 40% of all vehicles in the UK are SUVS (sometimes small ones)

    3) the MPG rating is always for a highway, not for typical or city driving. The EU has terrible traffic jams as well.

    4) Horsepower is measured differently in continental europe vs. the US. The net result is many EU cars have 85 US HP or less — and those are really small engines.

    5) Diesel boosts mileage, but has terrible air pollution costs. Almost every EU city has more particulate matter than you average US city. Overall, outside of LA, every major American city has cleaner air than cities in the EU.

    The figure I’ve seen is average MPG of EU vehicles is 25 MPG, as opposed to an average of 20 in the US. That number is probably a bit higher now with the addition of Eastern Europe — more small engines.

  27. Anonymous Avatar

    there is a difference between IMPERIAL gallons and US gallons.

    Come on, you have to assume the units conversion have been made in such a statement.

    Still 40 mpg seems high, even my Prius only get 46-48, mostly. There are a lot of diesel cars in Europe, and that does make a difference, because a gallon of diesel contains more energy than a gallon of gas.

    RH

  28. 1. Why does Virginia have a higher per-capita energy consumption rate than the EU?

    a) Virginia produces more per capita than the EU
    b) Residents of Virginia live less energy efficient lifestyles than residents of the EU
    c) Both a) and b)

    C) is your answer.

    2. Based on the answer to question 1., Virginia should:

    a) Implement congestion tolls on a small percentage of its roadways
    b) Tax all energy purchases including an increase to the gas tax that has been frozen in time for 22 years
    c) Elect RH and Larry Gross Co-Governors

    Your correct answer is b)

    3. If the government does not increase the cost of energy consumption to meet the hidden costs of pollution the private sector will:

    a) Do nothing
    b) Slowly and partially react to systematic increases in energy costs
    c) Fully solve the problem by “pricing in” the hidden costs of CO2 production

    b).

    This isn’t really all that hard – is it?

  29. Since I don’t know where Larry got the 40 MPG figure, assumption is a risk. The point is more to caution others when reading stats about cars in Europe.

    .
    Of course what Larry found what was more interesting is the per capita gas usage. France and germany are as car-crazy as the US, and in the case of france overinvests in roads and underinvests in public transport. However, their per capita gas is 1/8 of ours, and their GPD and productivity are very similar.

    I can’t get the database to work well, but I suspect if you also add the diesel per capita to the gas per capita then you would get very different numbers. Something like 70% of vehicles being sold in the EU are diesel.

    40 MPG (Imperial) also seems a bit high to me; my experience with small diesel car rentals in Europe is I get about 38-40 (US) on the highway. Since NOT all cars in Europe are small diesels rentals, I suspect the 40 MPG (either Imperial or US) is also a bit inflated (especially when you factor in EU SUVs)

  30. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    re: gas mileage:

    …”A reasonably modern European supermini may manage motorway travel at 5 L/100 km (47 mpg US/56 mpg imp) or 6.5 L/100 km in city traffic (36 mpg US/43 mpg imp), with carbon dioxide emissions of around 140 g/km.
    An average North American mid-size car travels 27 mpg (US) (9 L/100 km) highway, 21 mpg (US) (11 L/100 km) city”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_efficiency

  31. 140 g/km?

    Really?

    Maybe I am confused but I thought the US SULEV designation was 1 g/mi of CO2 emission.

    1 g/mi is 225 X more efficient than 140 g/km

    So, as SULEV hybrids take to the road – do we really have a CO2 problem coming from cars?

    I must have some data point wrong here.

  32. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    does this help:

    “CO2 emissions from a gallon of gasoline = 2,421 grams x 0.99 x (44/12) = 8,788 grams = 8.8 kg/gallon = 19.4 pounds/gallon”

    http://www.epa.gov/OMS/climate/420f05001.htm#calculating

  33. Anonymous Avatar

    “1. Why does Virginia have a higher per-capita energy consumption rate than the EU?

    a) Virginia produces more per capita than the EU”

    Upi are missing the point. Virginia may produce more per capita that the EU and ALSO produce more per BTU than the EU.

    As a result they can (will) use more energy per capita and ALSO be more energy efficient.

    RH

  34. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    RH – this sounds like grade A blather.

    Canada and the Scandanavian countries use MORE energy per capita than Virginia by a third or more…and California and Europe use less by a third.

    If your claim is true that the more energy used – the higher the GNP.. then I’d challenge you to a simple chart.. demonstrating what you are claiming.

    Make sure you use Canada, Scandinavia, Iceland and other countries that are the top users of electricity in the world.

    just show the simple correlation of per-capita energy use verses GNP

  35. Anonymous Avatar

    https://www.baconsrebellion.com/blog/08/09/rayimages.htm.

    JB was kind enough to post these for me.

    You will see a graph that shows the relation of energy and GNP. The case of japan shows that the rule doesn’t always hold, but Germany and France use less energy and produce less per person than the US. It is a trend, not a rule.

    Also look at the data I posted for Australia. They got more efficient at using energy, and they still used a lot more of it, just as the conservation paradox predicts.

    You CAN conserve energy and live just as well, but you cannot conserve A LOT of energy and still live as well.

    Conservation has its limits, and it is expensive. A GOOD conservationist only promotes conservation that is efficient. The other graph shows that while we know US uses a lot of energy, we are still very efficient at how we use it.

    The map shos the GDP of the states compared with other countries.

    RH

  36. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    well, first – the high use countries of Canada, Scandinavia, and Iceland are not shown…

    but as important – you contradict your own theory…

    “The case of japan shows that the rule doesn’t always hold, but Germany and France use less energy and produce less per person than the US. It is a trend, not a rule.re: “

    tell me the limits of conservation/efficiency…

    what if the US became as efficient as Japan –

    what would that do to our use of energy???

    our demand for more energy???

    our need for more energy production???

    what exactly has been proved other than the US is a proliferate and woefully inefficient consumer of energy?

  37. Michael Ryan Avatar
    Michael Ryan

    My ineluctable conclusion is that people in those countries don’t need air conditioning for 6 months of the year.

  38. Anonymous Avatar

    you contradict your own theory…

    I don’t have any theory, I just presented the data. You are welcome to believe it or not.

    The trend appears to be pretty uniform for the countries shown, with the exception of Japan. You may choose to believe that one exception invalidates the rule, or you can look for additional underlying truths. No doubt if the scandinavian countries were included, your comments would be visible on the chart.

    I have forgotten the name of the website that has the graph visualizations, but if you go there and plot the same graph (GDP per capita vs energy use per capita) you will see many more countries. The graph visualization incudes data over time, so you can pick out an individual country and watch it “slide” upard and to the right as it becomes more developed.

    Each individual country follows the same pattern over time: more GDP per person, and more energy use per person.

    Countries that are very cold or very hot may go up the graph at a different slope, but the trend “appears” to be the same.

    You can believe what you believe, or you can believe what you see.

    Can we do better? Yes.
    CAn we do as well as Japan? Probably not.
    Can we conserve to the point wher it hurts the economy? Absolutely.

    The first question to answer is how much conservation can we achieve “for free”: with little or no apparent or externalized costs.

    The next question is how much are we willing to “pay” for additional conservation, because that is going to hurt.

    My outright guess is that the limits to the first question are (presently) five to seven percent. If there are savings bigger than that, then some company would figure out how to exploit them, and they would already be general practice. Don’t beat me up, it is only a guess.

    RH

  39. Anonymous Avatar

    The other interesting thing about the visualization website is that the developed countries move up and to the right only to a point. Then they seem to stagnate (they have reached the limits of eficiency) but the lesser developed countries continue to come on strong, right up that same line.

    If you really want to save a lot of energy , don’t let the developing countries develop.

    RH

  40. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    re: “I just presented the data. You are welcome to believe it or not.”

    this is not true RH.

    You are claiming that efficiency does not work and that primarily using more energy produces more GNP.

    and that is a fraud.

    GNP is a measure of productivity – efficiency – of produce MORE with less – less labor and less resources – including energy resources.

    If we want to serve as a leader for the rest of the world – including developing countries – we need to show that prosperity is NOT a zero sum game with regard to energy usage.

    Japan is proving this.

    We are not.

    We are not only not providing leadership in efficiency – we are actually promoting more waste and wanton consumption – as an excuse for not acting.

    Japan and other industrialized countries in the world – have PROVEN that GNP is NOT tied to energy consumption per capita.

    You are not merely “showing the data” .. you are claiming that that data supports the idea that the only way for economic vitality is ..higher and higher energy consumption – which is demonstrably false.

  41. Larry Gross Avatar
    Larry Gross

    the other “interesting” thing about your theory .. is that you think that no more efficiencies are possible.. that we have reached the end of efficiency…

    which is also – not true….

    if you take automobile efficiency alone – Europe and Asia’s automobiles are almost twice as efficient as US automobiles.

    your theory is that the US automobiles are as efficient as they will ever get – and that developing countries will adopt US-type autos rather than European/Asian automobiles.

    and who is to say.. that automobiles will not get more efficient in the first place?

    If what you say is true – then the European and Asian automobiles should not be possible and that the US automobiles are “at the limit” of efficiency – which is more of the same – bullfeathers…

  42. Anonymous Avatar

    “You are claiming that efficiency does not work and that primarily using more energy produces more GNP.”

    I’m not claiming anything. I just presented the graph, you can interpret it any way you please.

    No, I do not think we have reached the end of efficiencies. What I think is that the efficiencies we can afford depend on the price of energy. We can afford to pump wells at 100 dollars a barrel that we cannot afford to pump at 50 dollars a barrel. But if a barrel has a hundred million BTU’s in it, we can NEVER afford to use 500 million BTU’s to pump it.

    Efficiency works the same way, but in the opposite direction. You can’t afford to spend more on the savings than you save.

    Ass for the efficiency paradox, it isn’t my theory, it is called the JEVON’s paradox after the man who first proposed it.

    The more efficient we are at using energy, the more we gain from using it, and so the more we will use.

    RH

  43. Anonymous Avatar

    “You are claiming that efficiency does not work and that primarily using more energy produces more GNP.”

    Not what I said at all. If you look at the graphs you will see that the most efficient users of energy ALSO have the highest GNP AND the highest use of energy. Even including Japan. They are very efficient, but they also use a huge amount of energy compared to most other countries.

    True enough, the graph does not show scandinavian countries and other cold places. I submit that if you made a similar graph of such countries you would see a similar trend: the most efficient users would have higher GNP’s and also more use over all.

    RH

  44. Anonymous Avatar

    “your theory is that the US automobiles are as efficient as they will ever get -“

    Where do you get this stuff? I never sais any such thing.

    I will say this much: Force still equals mass times acceleration. There are physical limits to how efficient we can make cars. We can make them smaller and lighter, and more aerodynamic, but to the extent that those things compromise other attributes they do NOT make the car more efficient: just smaller and lighter.

    We can change to electric cars, which will be cheaper to operate, but they will require the same amount of energy (maybe more with heavy batteries), and therefore they will be no more energy efficient.

    Yes, we can squeeze out a few more miles ber BTU, but we are NOT going to cut it in half.

    RH

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