Cloward and Piven
Cloward and Piven

by Elena Siddall

In 1963 I graduated from Mary Washington College of the University of Virginia, with a BA degree in Pre-Foreign Service and headed for New York City. The degree did not get me a job as translator at the United Nations, so I answered an ad for Social Investigator in the Department of Public Welfare. The only requirement was a college degree in any field, and the majority of applicants came from liberal arts.

The six-week training consisted of reading Charlotte Towle’s “Common Human Needs.” The book had been under fire in 1951 when a statement made by Towle, a psychiatric social worker, was made public: “Social security and public assistance programs are a basic essential for attainment of the socialized state envisaged in a democratic ideology, a way of life which so far has been realized only in slight measure.“ Reading John Bowlby’s Maternal Care and Mental Health also was required. Bowlby was the Director of Tavistock Clinic and a consultant to the World Health Organization. The training was rounded out by learning reams of Child Welfare and Public Assistance policies.

Female trainees were encouraged to go into the Bureau of Child Welfare (BCW), while males directed to Public Assistance (PA). All were issued a black notebook and assigned to any of the five boroughs. I was sent to work in the Bronx.
The Investigators were represented by the Social Services Employees Union, which one joined voluntarily. Among the first actions of the union in 1965 were to have the SI re-classified as “Caseworker” and to negotiate a salary increase from $4,100, to $4,200. The union, which I soon joined, was very active in non “bread and butter” issues, advocating for a “more dignified” treatment of welfare recipients and BCW cases (not all coming from the welfare rolls).

I learned that the city offered scholarships towards a Masters of Social Work degree based on performance after one year of employment and enrolled in Columbia University School of Social Work for night classes. I also was elected to be a representative from the Bronx BCW to the union’s Executive Board. These factors resulted in rather intense exposure to the increasingly vocal demands of social activists engaged in Johnson’s “War on Poverty,” resisting the Vietnam War, and supporting the Civil Rights movement.

I was drawn to the activities with some serious reservation, having myself come to the US in 1949 from five years in displaced-persons camps in Germany. My family had fled the Bolsheviks in 1919 from Petrograd to Latvia and fled the Soviets in 1944 from Latvia. My family was vehemently anti-Communist, and my work in NYC was disapproved of. My father, an engineer and director of a cement factory in Latvia of interest to both the Soviets and the Nazis, brought us to America with $135 in his pocket. He picked apples and worked as a day laborer until he found employment as a draftsman. We never accepted welfare. Economically we were poor. Everybody (three siblings and myself) “made it” through college, to Master’s programs, and to professional lives without “handouts.” And here I was, as my father accused me, “crying about the darling poor.”

At that time, the Columbia School of Social Work was housed in the Andrew Carnegie Mansion at 5th and 91st Streets (now part of the Smithsonian). It was bizarre to work in the decaying, impoverished Bronx by day and then get on the subway to head to a 5th Avenue mansion to hear, in class, how to dismantle “the system.”

About that time, a husband-wife team of professors (sociologists) arrived at Columbia, Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. Cloward and Piven embraced (Saul) Alinsky Radicalism to advocate for the poor and down-trodden. No, they did not teach night-time classes, but they caused quite a stir when they published a profoundly explicit “strategy” in the progressive/left The Nation magazine in the May 2, 1966 issue. They wrote (in part):

It is our purpose to advance a strategy which affords the basis for a convergence of civil rights organizations, militant anti-poverty groups and the poor. If this strategy were implemented, a political crisis would result that could lead to legislation for a guaranteed annual income and thus an end to poverty….

The strategy is based on the fact that a vast discrepancy exists between the benefits to which the people are entitled under public welfare programs and the sums which they actually receive… This discrepancy is not an accident… if challenged, would precipitate a profound financial and political crisis. The force for that challenge, and the strategy we propose, is a massive drive to recruit the poor onto the welfare rolls.

“The Weight of the Poor” ends with:

If organizations can deliver millions of dollars in cash benefits to the ghetto masses, it seems reasonable to expect that the masses will deliver their loyalties to their benefactors. At least, they have always done so in the past.

The strategy was simple for immediate implementation. The union encouraged Public Assistance caseworkers to issue Special Grants to all recipients for what they were “eligible for.” There was no time for establishing “eligibility” for ”non-recurring” grants for clothing, household equipment and furniture, including washing machines, refrigerators, beds, bedding, tables, chairs, even if you had these. BCW/ Bronx was located in the Melrose Welfare Center, and while we, the caseworkers, were not involved with the issuance of these grants, many of our cases were recipients. The ensuing chaos was frightening as the center-–and all centers were over-run with people demanding their “special grants.”

Several strikes followed that summer, with caseworkers demanding the city to improve conditions, not only for the caseworkers, but their caseloads. ”Recipients” became “Clients.”

I was awarded a Paid Educational Leave scholarship (full tuition plus salary), and, rejected by Columbia (“lacking in dedication”), left for the University of Pennsylvania to earn my Master’s degree in Social Work, 1967-69.

At Penn, we studied Saul Alinsky, theorists of the Neo-Marxist Frankfurt School, Herbert Marcuse, Theodor Adorno, Erich Fromm, Herbert Apthekar, and various progressive ideas on the elimination of poverty. The school also had an active Students for Democratic Society chapter. This was a Marxist group, calling for extreme social change on the American landscape, baby-boomers raised on what was the best in America in the post World War II years. The radical arm of this movement eventually morphed into the Weather Underground, originally called the Weathermen, a hard-core domestic terrorist group including Billy Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, Kathy Boudine, Cathy Wikerson, and a small roster of other activists, now writing their memoirs post-incarceration for bombing, killings and raising hell.

I was an anomaly there, “too conservative.” I returned to the Bronx after my degree, but the work (I had been in Child Protective Services) had become too dangerous, and after I pushed a knife-wielding woman following me down the stairs, left soon after.

Cloward is deceased, but Piven carries on. C and P were the architects of the Motor–Voter initiative, and Piven allegedly is Obama’s mentor still. The Cloward-Piven Strategy is 48 years old.

How is it working for you?

Elena Siddall is active in the Mathews Republican Committee and the Mid-Peninsula Patriots.


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14 responses to “Child Services in the Shadow of Cloward and Piven”

  1. larryg Avatar

    sorry – this is a triple load of BS…

    every state in the union has welfare of some version – does that mean they are all adherents of Saul Alinsky?

    Name the State that you think best does Welfare.

    or – are you opposed to any/all welfare as a philosophy? do you have a middle ground here or are you opposed to the concept itself?

    for the record. I am opposed to welfare for the able-bodied – and that includes Moms.

    I think if you get assistance, you need to earn it and I think that most human beings want to actually do something to earn the help they get.

    People who get assistance, need to get child-care and then they need to work to staff food banks, homeless shelters, etc…

    but this piece is pure ideological blather – in my view.

    If you do not believe in welfare – say so.. don’t play silly games with your “personal” experiences.

  2. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    I don’t know what’s more interesting – Ms. Siddall’s article or LarryG’s reaction.

    Ms. Siddall relates her first hand experiences with the welfare program in New York city in the 1960s. She describes a radicalization of that program by followers of Saul Alinsky. She then provides further first hand experience of what people pursuing advanced degrees in Social Work were taught at the University of Pennsylvania.

    Very little of what Ms. Siddall writes seems controversial to me. The Weather Underground was a violent organization. Bill Ayers co-authored a book dedicated to various political prisoners including Sirhan Sirhan. Bernadette Dohrn is an even bigger idiot than her husband Bill Ayers. Here’s what she had to say about the Manson Family’s murder of pregnant Sharon Tate – “First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, then they even shoved a fork into the pig Tate’s stomach! Wild!”

    These are Obama’s heroes and apparently LarryG’s heroes too. That’s the only reason I can cite for LarryG’s comments:

    “sorry – this is a triple load of BS…”
    “but this piece is pure ideological blather – in my view.”
    “If you do not believe in welfare – say so.. don’t play silly games with your “personal” experiences.”

    The “… triple load of BS …” comment is childish and deserves no response.

    The “pure ideological blather” comment is unsupported by any reference to the article. Perhaps LarryG see some context. If so, he should cite what in the article is “ideological blather”.

    Calling the personal experiences of someone who worked in the middle of welfare industrial complex silly is … well silly. Why are Ms. Siddall’s personal experiences in this area silly?

    Finally, Ms. Siddall asks a simple question – “How is it working for you?”

    It would be instructive for LarryG to answer that simple question instead of flying off the handle. Is America’s long-running massive welfare program working? Have we won LBJ’s War on Poverty?

    Funny how liberals are the first to bray like donkeys about America’s broken health care system. However, they go positively mute when the conversation moves to America’s broken welfare system.

    I guess nobody can see their own baby as ugly.

    1. larryg Avatar

      re:

      ” These are Obama’s heroes and apparently LarryG’s heroes too. That’s the only reason I can cite for LarryG’s comments:

      “sorry – this is a triple load of BS…”
      “but this piece is pure ideological blather – in my view.”
      “If you do not believe in welfare – say so.. don’t play silly games with your “personal” experiences.”

      The “… triple load of BS …” comment is childish and deserves no response.

      The “pure ideological blather” comment is unsupported by any reference to the article. Perhaps LarryG see some context. If so, he should cite what in the article is “ideological blather”.

      Calling the personal experiences of someone who worked in the middle of welfare industrial complex silly is … well silly. Why are Ms. Siddall’s personal experiences in this area silly?”

      1. – because we ALL have such life experiences that mold our thinking and philosophies – in my case I was taught that taking charity was akin to death I don’t use that as an excuse for my overall philosophy like some folks would.

      2. – there are welfare programs in all 50 states – of which many would be caught dead cavorting with the likes of Saul Alinsky and yet they still provide welfare.

      Finally, Ms. Siddall asks a simple question – “How is it working for you?”

      It would be instructive for LarryG to answer that simple question instead of flying off the handle. Is America’s long-running massive welfare program working? Have we won LBJ’s War on Poverty?”

      I have no trouble with that question what-so-ever.

      You tell me why Mississippi and Arkansas still have welfare programs – if it is so fundamentally wrong…

      you tell me why Ronald Reagan – supported EITC… – this was the guy who blathered about Cadillac welfare queens, remember?

      “Funny how liberals are the first to bray like donkeys about America’s broken health care system. However, they go positively mute when the conversation moves to America’s broken welfare system.

      I guess nobody can see their own baby as ugly.”

      It’s a simple thing. I ask if you are opposed to any/all welfare including charity care at ERs.

      If you are truly serious about “how is that working out” – then you come back and tell me what YOU THINK .. it ought to be instead.

      it’s EASY to look at virtually anything and find parts that don’t work. Ask GM or the IRS or METRO or VDOT… or McDonell.

      does that mean that NONE of it worked at all, ever?

      you can take that tact but then the braying donkey changes saddles…

      If YOU truly think welfare is a failure then why don’t you say you would stop it all – from charity care at ERs, to the EITC to food stamps to medical care for kids.

      All I ask is that you be HONEST about what your positions really are and get away from the blather rhetoric.

      step up and say what you are in favor of… not what you are opposed to.

      DJ – are you opposed to METRO because of it’s failures – or not? why?

  3. larryg Avatar

    the problem that we have is this:

    I can name an endless list of things I don’t like or that I think are wrong.

    that’s easy. It’s actually too easy for some of us.

    the real problem is – what are you for?

    and so I ask.

    if you are opposed to the concept of Welfare (as I am) – then what would you be for?

    would you be in favor of getting rid of it – all together – from EITC to food stamps to aid to dependent families to charity care at ERs?

    if you are not going to say what you are for – what exactly should I believe
    about your views other than you don’t like the world?

  4. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    Maybe Ms. Siddall will join the conversation here. I hope she does.

    I don’t see where Ms. Siddall claims that there should be no welfare. I infer that she believes the US welfare system has been coopted by radicals who want to use the system not to help the poor but, rather, to foster something on the order of profound societal change, if not outright revolution.

    Ms. Siddall was required to read a book by an author who said, “Social security and public assistance programs are a basic essential for attainment of the socialized state envisaged in a democratic ideology, a way of life which so far has been realized only in slight measure.“

    I don’t believe that the attainment of a socialized state is envisaged in a democratic ideology. Moreover, I have no idea why attaining a socialized state is relevant to teaching welfare caseworkers how to administer the welfare program. That does sound a bit like political brainwashing to me.

    Why did the employee union representing welfare workers feel compelled to take policy positions on providing “more dignified” treatment of welfare recipients? Shouldn’t the union confine itself to properly representing its members? Again, sounds like overly political behavior.

    It sounds like the union was encouraging the caseworkers to issue “special grants” without doing the required needs analysis first. Ms. Siddall seems to think this was an example of the employee union following the Cloward – Piven doctrine of trying to create chaos in order to foster change. Ms. Siddall was there, she was a caseworker. Maybe she’s right.

    LarryG – when someone says a system is wrong that does not logically imply that they believe the underlying process should be abandoned. I think the Redskins pass defense strategy was horrible last year. That does not imply that I think the Redskins should stop playing football.

    And yes – I know the Redskins lost the patent and trademark case. But they don’t have a new name yet. My suggestion of the Washington CongressSux with a logo of Harry Reid on one side of the helmet and Nancy Pelosi on the other is being considered.

    1. larryg Avatar

      “I don’t see where Ms. Siddall claims that there should be no welfare. I infer that she believes the US welfare system has been coopted by radicals who want to use the system not to help the poor but, rather, to former something on the order of profound societal change, if not outright revolution.”

      what is she saying?

      “Ms. Siddall was required to read a book by an author who said, “Social security and public assistance programs are a basic essential for attainment of the socialized state envisaged in a democratic ideology, a way of life which so far has been realized only in slight measure.“

      I don’t believe that the attainment of a socialized state is envisaged in a democratic ideology. Moreover, I have no idea why attaining a socialized state is relevant to teaching welfare caseworkers how to administer the welfare program. That does sound a bit like political brainwashing to me.”

      so reading a book – means what with the rest of your approach to the world?

      “Why did the employee union representing welfare workers feel compelled to take policy positions on providing “more dignified” treatment of welfare recipients? Shouldn’t the union confine itself to properly representing its members? Again, sounds like overly political behavior.”

      if she encountered this behavior in Mississippi would it affect her any differently?

      “It sounds like the union was encouraging the caseworkers to issue “special grants” without doing the required needs analysis first. Ms. Siddall seems to think this was an example of the employee union following the Cloward – Piven doctrine of trying to create chaos in order to foster change. Ms. Siddall was there, she was a caseworker. Maybe she’s right.”

      oh it does. Do you think that DEFINES welfare as a concept across the country? why would you apply that experience in that way?

      “LarryG – when someone says a system is wrong that does not logically imply that they believe the underlying process should be abandoned. I think the Redskins pass defense strategy was horrible last year. That does not imply that I think the Redskins should stop playing football.”

      if you say something is wrong – and you don’t say how it should be fixed – and your words imply that the concept itself is at question then why exactly are you saying? If you choose to not make clear beyond your objections then what are you saying?

      “And yes – I know the Redskins lost the patent and trademark case. But they don’t have a new name yet. My suggestion of the Washington CongressSux with a logo of Harry Reid on one side of the helmet and Nancy Pelosi on the other is being considered.”

      again I ask YOU – DJ – there is ample evidence that METRO has endless problems.

      does that mean to you that METRO should cease to exist?

      the welfare system is bad. It has many, many problems, no question about it.

      if you write an article that fundamentally questions the concept of welfare.. AND you are involved in politics – what exactly does that mean you support – for change – for political change?

      the right loves to talk about what is wrong. They seem to get their tongue tied when you ask for what to do instead. not just welfare, immigration, health care, etc.

      they know what they don’t like but they totally are either devoid of solutions or they are unwilling to share what they think should be done instead – i.e. their platform for change.

      this is just plain hit & run foolishness.. it has no more substance than blathering about the Washington Redskins…

      if you don’t like welfare – fine. tell me what we do instead or just go sit down – we don’t need more “voices”, we have plenty already.

  5. larryg Avatar

    the premise of the right is that our current system is wrong – basically.

    that’s fine. Lay it out. Show the failures. Show how do-gooders (aka leftists) have totally screwed up how we deal with people who have ended up depending on the government.

    but then – lay out your way forward.

    convince us that your gift is more than finding fault, that you actually have a better way forward.

    this is where the right fails.

    they either have no way forward – other than just stop all welfare OR they refuse to say what parts they’d get rid of, what parts they’d keep and how they’d change it.

    their basis approach seems to be “you’ll have to vote us into office to see what we’ll do”.

    this is not only deeply dishonest – it violates the basic principles of our Constitutional Republic.

    I think – we SHOULD have the debate.

    I think that people SHOULD stand on their principles.

    but I also think that you be honest with those who vote.

    you cannot, you do not, deserve to be elected by pointing out ONLY what our failures are – right now.

    I have zero desire to vote into office people whose only skill is to point out what’s wrong with our system and in the process play silly Saul Alinsky games.

    Get your butt up on that stage and tell me what you are going to advocate for.

    Don’t tell me that you are opposed to welfare, or regulations or Obama Saul Alinsky acolytes.

    I want to hear YOUR plan.

    Mr. Romney might have won – if he had been actually able to provide us with HIS PLAN but he was restrained to only talk about what the right thought was wrong with the country.

    you cannot win like that. You SHOULD NOT win like that.

    the right has not learned this – apparently.

    so when they write here – I call the question.

    don’t like welfare? me too. how should we fix it?

    ideological blather makes me crazy.

  6. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
    LifeOnTheFallLine

    For me, personally? Pretty good! Registering to vote at the DMV has made my life much easier!

    I must admit I fail to see the point in what you wrote. You take a lot of personal anecdotes, wrap them around some Commie baiting, and then draw no direct lines but end with a heavy inference not supported by what came befofe it.

    I have noticed a weird trend in conservatives who grew up eligible for public assistance but whose parents didn’t accept it to lionize this choice. As if it’s somehow noble to make life needlessly more difficult for you and your children.

    1. larryg Avatar

      In addition – the game being played these days more and more by Conservatives is to lay out some indictment of something they consider to be a failure of “liberalism” and government – using personal experience, anecdotal data and manipulated data, outright misinformation and disinformation….

      ….. towards an implicit result of totally getting rid of whatever is the subject of their current ire and nothing else, just gut it.

      so they do the narrative on welfare – like this – and you realize it’s a sophomoric effort but you go ahead and read it to better understand the points made and to see if there is a cogent alternative describing what we should get rid of, what to keep, and what to change/reform…

      and that’s when you realize – it’s not about making anything work better – it’s about some philosophical belief that the CONCEPT of welfare is a failure and there is NO recommended alternative or reforms. None… and it’s not just about welfare, it’s about immigration and a pile of other things like getting rid of “regulation” – generically.

      they just finish the narrative and then leave it like a dead skunk in the middle of the road – monument to “liberal” failure.

      Now.. these same folks presume to want to govern or support folks who would govern – with this dead-skunk way of thinking about things… i.e. Ronald Reagan style – “government is THE problem” – completely ignoring of course that the same man who blathered about the govt and welfare queens also supported minimum wage and the earned income tax credit.

      so the revised/perverted history is only the stuff about Reagan that they liked while they ignore the other half – that made him a reasonable conservative and not a radical whacko bird. It’s Reagan, the father of the Tea Party! (sic).

      so now.. these days – we get these dead-skunk tomes… i.e. – “it’s a liberal concept and it’s broke and we should get rid of it but we’re not going to say outright and overtly – get rid of it – we’re just going to recite a bill of particulars of failures of liberal concepts of governance – like welfare.

      this is what passes for “reasoned thought” from the right these days.

      forget folks like Dick Lugar or Howard Baker or Bush I.. they’re now all “squishes”.

      and if you really want to know what they’d do -you have to elect them first because they sure as hell are not about to tell you before the election what “hope and change” THEY have in mind.

      I would love to engage – on the issues – but how can you when they start off talking about their first job..30 years ago…. as if that defines the current status of anything today… Ronald Reagan became POTUS 18 years after 1963, Bill Clinton, 30 years…

      yet, we’re still taking about Saul Alinsky and the radical left of the 60’s.

  7. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    She bucked her parents and became what they disliked – a welfare case worker. Her goal was to help the poor get the benefits the state offers. While trying to be a good little liberal she began to realize that the “poverty pimps” were less interested in helping the poor and more interested in using the welfare system to effect their brand of socialist change. She wonders whether this ardent “socialism through welfare manipulation” by the people running the welfare system has been to the benefit of poor people.

    If I can help any more of you liberals with reading comprehension – just ask.

    “Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right”

    1. larryg Avatar

      re: “… She bucked her parents and became what they disliked”

      really?

      ” The degree did not get me a job as translator at the United Nations, so I answered an ad for Social Investigator”

      what part of what you quoted did YOU not comprehend hombre?

      I was trying to be charitable… about getting a degree pointed to a government job… and finding out it was not to be – so went after another government job…. and now later… … welfare and no doubt the UN are “bad”. The question is why would you sign up to a govt worker to start with?

      right?

      😉

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        Again, reading comprehension … it’s not just for junior high school …

        And here I was, as my father accused me, “crying about the darling poor.”

        Sounds like bucking her parents to me. The fact that she didn’t get a job as a translator certainly didn’t require that she take a job as a welfare caseworker. She knew that choice would not sit well with her father.

        She tried to work within the system and found the system to be corrupted by radicals and radicalism. Now, she questions whether the hijacking of the system where she once worked has really benefitted the poor.

        Pretty simple.

        1. larryg Avatar

          DJ- was working with the poor what she prepared herself for in college?

          was it something that motivated her before college?

          My reading comprehension is fine and I have no need to re-work history to make my view fit the actual circumstance

          If the woman had a history of wanting to be in social work and prepared herself to do that – educationally and her early work career – and then she became disillusioned – yes but this does not sound like that.

          it sounds like she just fell into it after her first plan did not work out hardly a career imperative.

          and again – she’s using one personal experience a long time ago – to indict the entire concept of welfare.

          that’s totally bogus – and you know it but it’s typical of how the right does business now days – and worse – they have no solutions – they demonize the entire concept of assistance to the poor – and that’s it.

          nothing could be more ideologically worthless in my view.

          Try something that has real virtue and substance to defend, dude.

    2. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
      LifeOnTheFallLine

      Wow…pretty sure they were using poor people to help poor people be less poor. In fact, they say as much by advocating for a guaranteed income, a system so socialist noted liberal utopia Alaska employs it. But hey, you are here to help me with my reading comprehension.

      Also, she points to incidents that happened in New York and asks us if those things are working out for us. Again, my reading comprehension may be thin, but my geography is pretty good and I know Virginia isn’t in New York and vice versa. In fact, the only federal program she can point to is the Motor-Voter bill, which has been very helpful to me. With this astonishingly deep well of missing evidence she then states one of the architects of her ire is “alleged” to rub elbows with the president. Quelle horreur! I know my reading comprehension needs glasses, but from here alleged and proved aren’t the same thing.

      So a bunch of hearsay, a bunch of personal stories and a bunch of hinting at shadows from someone who landed in social services because she wasn’t skilled enough to get the job she actually wanted. The sum of those parts is not a point. I appreciate your Herculean efforts to helping my reading comprehension, though.

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