Charter Schools and How Things Work in Virginia

Sen. Dick Saslaw (D) Springfield – Official photo

by James C. Sherlock

As an object lesson on how things work in Virginia, I’ll relate a story of campaign donations, the Virginia Education Association, a Democratic Governor, a Republican Senator, Democratic Senator Dick Saslaw, his wife Eleanor and charter schools.

The Virginia Education Association

The Virginia Education Association has given nearly $1.8 million in campaign donations to Virginia state candidates over the years, nearly all of it to Democrats. The VEA, like the National Education Association and its smaller rival, the American Federation of Teachers, hates charter schools for reasons — both actual reasons and those stated by the unions — that we have detailed here in the past.

Dick Saslaw. The Virginia Senate’s most prominent opponent of charter schools has been Sen. Dick Saslaw, D-Springfield.

From a newspaper report on January 28 of 2013:

The Virginia Senate narrowly killed a pair of constitutional amendments dealing with two perennial Republican favorites: right-to-work and charter schools.

Democrats helped defeat a constitutional amendment from Sen. Mark Obenshain, R-Harrisonburg, that would have created more opportunities to open charter schools in the state.

Obenshain, a candidate for attorney general, said the state needed to find ways to give parents choices if their local school district is failing to meet their child’s needs.

“The states that have great experience with charter schools really do cross the political divide,” Obenshain said. “Some of the most successful are in bright blue states.”

But opponents said Virginia already had one of the best education systems in the country and contend that charter schools would take money away from underfunded K-12 public schools.

“There are things that we can do,” Saslaw said. “It’s not perfect. You’re not going to fix them for free. You need to realize that. But this is not the way to fix them.”

Sen. Saslaw is not one to fix anything for free. He is the most prolific fundraiser in the General Assembly and has been for a great many years.  

In 2013, the Virginia Education Association named Saslaw Legislator of the Year. No word on whether he voted the VEA as his donor of the year. Dominion Power and hospital interests shared that trophy for years.

Then this in 2016:

A two-year effort to expand charter schools in Virginia was dealt a blow Monday, when the Senate voted 21-19 to reject a measure that would have made it easier to establish alternative schools.

Republican Sens. A. Benton Chafin Jr. of Bland County and Emmett Hanger of Rockingham County joined the Democrats to kill a November ballot initiative for a constitutional amendment authorizing the Virginia Board of Education to approve charter schools.

Currently, local school boards have the power to establish charters in their districts but have been reluctant to do so: There are only nine charter schools in the state.

Sen. Mark Obenshain, Harrisonburg Republican, has pushed for charter schools for two years, calling them a “lifeline” for students who live in areas with lower-quality schools.

“It is fundamentally wrong and indefensible for us to provide a world-class education in some jurisdictions around Virginia and then provide others a Third World education and do nothing about it,” he said on the Senate floor. “My God, we have kids we are ruining.”

Opponents said the bill would have stripped power from school boards, and the state should not try to take resources from traditional schools.

“Simply running roughshod over local school boards is not the way to do it,” said Sen. Richard Saslaw, Fairfax County Democrat..

Saslaw has been the recipient of $21,750 in campaign donations from VEA.

Hanger, in a rare coup for Republicans, received $6,310 from the VEA between 2003 and 2015. Hanger cast his “veto” in 2016.

Unfortunately, that is fairly standard pay-to-play stuff in the General Assembly.

Eleanor Saslaw and Governor Warner

Eleanor Saslaw

But for the Democrats, it was equally important who ran both the Board of Education and the Charter School Application Committee of the Board of Education.

Eleanor Saslaw, Dick Saslaw’s wife, began her career as a teacher in the Fairfax County school system. She served as a school counselor and Student Services Director in the Fairfax County Public School System.

In 2004, she was appointed to the Virginia State Board of Education by then-Governor Mark Warner, a Democrat, and served as its president from 2010 to 2012. Warner received $10,000 from the VEA in support of his gubernatorial run.

She was chairperson of the Virginia Board of Education Charter School Application Committee from Jan 2005 until at least October 13, 2009 when she chaired her last meeting before becoming Chairwoman of the full board.

During her time running the Charter School Application Committee, the minutes of the committee revealed absolutely nothing of the actual proceedings. No supplementary materials were provided. On June 23, 2010 the first meeting was held in which materials were offered for public review. That was the first meeting at which Mrs. Saslaw no longer led that committee, having moved up to chair the full Board of Education.

At the end of Eleanor Saslaw’s term as Chairperson of the Board of Education, Virginia had 1,850 public schools, four of which were charters and two of which were accredited.

From the 2010 Annual Report  on Condition and Needs of Public Schools signed by Mrs. Saslaw as Chairwoman:

“Status of Virginia’s Public Charter Schools in 2009-2010

In addition to the work of the new Charter School Committee and College Partnership Laboratory School committee, the Board of Education received information on the number of public charter school applications approved and denied by local school boards during 2009-2010 through Superintendent’s Memorandum, Number 155-10, Charter School Report for 2009-2010, dated July 9, 2010.
• All school divisions reported;
• No new charter school applications were approved;
• No charter school applications were denied;
• One charter school application was submitted to the Richmond City School Board and is presently going through the school system’s internal review process;
• Three charter schools operated for students in 2009-2010;
• A fourth charter school (Patrick Henry School of Science and Arts (Richmond) opened August 2010) was in its planning year in 2009-2010 and opened for students in grades K-5 in August 2010.”

Follow the Money

So, all of the discussion here or anywhere else in Virginia, pro and con, about the need for charter schools as part of the solution for the abysmal condition of some of the worst schools in the Commonwealth falls on deaf, but well-funded ears in Richmond.


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Comments

118 responses to “Charter Schools and How Things Work in Virginia”

  1. djrippert Avatar

    Decidedly off topic. In my youth I was an outfielder. I had two heroes – Roberto Clemente and Hank Aaron. Clemente, a former US Marine, died on Dec 31, 1972 in a plane crash while trying to help victims of an earthquake in Nicaragua.

    I was taken back to the night of my 15th birthday today. On that exact date I watched Hank “the Hammer” Aaron break Babe Ruth’s home run record. The Hammer died today at age 86. Perhaps my favorite single sentence from a Wikipedia article. “His family could not afford baseball equipment, so he practiced by hitting bottle caps with sticks.”

    Rest in power Hank “the Hammer” Aaron.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Aaron’s batting instructor in the minor leagues had a devil of a time breaking his crosshanded bat grip. He was like your grandparents. You always thought he was going to be there.

  2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    I am an advocate for public charter schools and think it should be easier to establish them. Furthermore, I am not a fan of Saslaw. But, come on, campaign contributions of $21,750? You really think that relatively small sum is going to “buy” his vote?

    There is another possibility here. It could be that Saslaw is against charter schools, for some reason, on principle. That coincides with the VEA’s position, so they contribute to his campaign. All interest groups try to get elected those folks that support their positions.

    I recently talked to a retired former senior legislator about this issue. He agreed with me–interest groups donate to candidates who are sympathetic to their interest. Those campaign contributions don’t buy votes; they buy access. That access gives the interest group the opportunity to pitch their position in a positive way. Often, the opposing side does not get that chance, so the legislator is left with only one perspective.

    I feel that if the state filled its legislative seats through a random drawing, with no campaign funds involved, and Saslaw was picked, he would vote pretty much the way he does now.

    Now, Steve Haner has a lot more experience with this sort of thing than I do; he has been involved at a level that I have not been. He may say that I am being very naive.

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      Of course there is a chicken or egg issue in political donations.

      On this issue, however, it is impossible to be well informed and not understand that, done well, charter schools have been a godsend to inner city youth. That is why cities like NYC have a half a million kids on charter school waitlists.

      If a legislator looks at Richmond schools and thinks well-run charters can’t do better than the worst of them, he or she is either a moron or willfully ignorant.

      The Eleanor Saslaw appointment with her going directly to run the Charter School committee of the Board of Education is one of the most politically cynical acts I have ever seen.
      .

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        I agree with Dick, the donations do not drive any of this. Most likely his firm position comes from his wife, as many legislators have told me over the years “I have to vote that way or I cannot go home!” VEA gives to Democrats is not news…..

      2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        I dunno, Betsey DeVos.

      3. LarrytheG Avatar

        It’s true the Success Academies do perform in NYC. It’s also true that other NYC schools also perform well, the top 3 are NOT Success Academies and apparently Success Academies cost more per pupil:

        1 Anderson School (The) K-8 $10,823
        2 New Explorations K-12 $10,124
        3 Ps 77 Lower Lab School K-5 $11,769
        4 Success Academy Charter School-Union Square K-8 $18,938
        5 Tag Young Scholars K-8 $9,029
        6 Success Academy Charter School – Bergen Beach K-6 $16,363

        https://www.schooldigger.com/go/NY/schoolrank.aspx

        New York does have an education agency like VDOE but navigating it to obtain academic results is challenging at least for some. Apparently there are some folks at Digger than know how.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          IF anyone thinks Virginia or Richmond SOL scores are poor, I invite you to go to the school digger site for New York where hundreds of schools all over New York score in the 20’s and lower:

          https://www.schooldigger.com/go/NY/schoolrank.aspx

          And Success has it’s own issues. They do not “backfill” which means they don’t replace kids that drop out and as a result they graduate a small number of kids compared to the original number of enrollment.

          In it’s first year, 2018, Success graduated 18 kids. All the other kids washed out and returned to public schools.

          I’m not just impugning Success or Charters in general – but pointing out they are not a magic solution. They have some strengths for some kids and parents but they are far from a general solution for all kids and parents and they don’t have the one requirement that public schools have and that is the public schools have to take all kids and be responsible for them for 12 grades no matter what , no matter what their parents do or not – Charters have the luxury of dumping kids that don’t meet their requirements.

          The essence of public schools is “public” – a guarantee that every kid no matter their circumstance or their parents fitness is entitled to a free k-12 education. Charter school don’t have that requirement.

          All in all, I DO SUPPORT Charter schools with two caveats.

          1. – they must accept ALL kids from economically disadvantaged demographics – that’s always been their claim that they are better.

          2. – they MUST provide transparent academic performance results AND be held accountable just as all public schools are.

          1. sherlockj Avatar

            Success meets your caveats. Success is the highest performing school system in New York State. Its student demographics are poorer and higher minority than NYC public schools in general. It has tens of thousands of kids on wait lists. No other public school system comes close.

            You seem to have some idea that public schools never have dropouts, never expel kids and never transfer poor performers and discipline problems to special schools designed for them. Get over it.

            You simply will never accept those facts. P. S. Success’ first year was not 2018.

          2. Matt Hurt Avatar

            Please be careful about comparing pass rates from one state’s assessments to another state’s assessments. Each state sets their own standards, some are more rigorous, and others less so. Then, each state sets the level of performance on their tests that they consider passing. Sometimes comparing pass rates between two states is like comparing apples to Volkswagens.

          3. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            Matt has a good point about comparisons between states. This is true on almost any issue because states differ so much in their standards and how they do things. Whenever one compares results between states, there needs to be elements in common to compare.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            If you look at School Digger, the highest ranked have scores like 98 or 99… and the low ones go to 12 and lower.

            But it could well be that their standardized test is not like the SOLs.

            in response to sherlock: look at the school digger link… there ARE some higher rated schools and thousands less spending per student. I do wonder why because one of the viewpoints here in BR about educating economically disadvantaged kids is “Mo money”. If we’re willing to pay Charters more to educate that demographic, why not public ?

            And yes, public schools do end up not graduating some kids and do have some dismal results for others than do graduate but Success Charters get to flush the kids that don’t make it and not not held accountable for how many make it, unlike accountability for public schools which have to meed benchmarks for that.

            Again, I do not oppose Charters, I support them but they are not a panacea for the bigger problems of economically disadvantaged kids.

            They can help some of them but I doubt they can help kids who do not have engaged parents … where-as public schools do.

            Finally, there are MANY public schools across Virginia, rural and urban that do an excellent job of educating economically disadvantaged kids – reading scores in the 80’s and 90’s so it’s not like public schools cannot do that. They can and they do. There are some schools in Richmond that are actually BETTER than some schools in Henrico and at the same time there are other schools in Henrico that are among the best in Va and Charters would be hard-pressed to do better.

          5. sherlockj Avatar

            “Look at all the good schools” is not a contribution to how to fix the bad schools.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar

            Why not. If they have “good” schools in Matt’s district are they not potentially good models for schools that need improvement?

            Isn’t that sorta the whole deal with CIP?

            What’s not true is that every Charter is a good school. Not all Charters are good. Some are no better than public schools.

    2. Yeah… I do believe $21,750 can buy a Delegate. In Henrico, I think 5 contributions of $250 (in 1987) to Supervisors later ended up in the contributor’s minor subdivision being approved on land where a septic system is questionable at best. There were no contributions before or after by this individual, but 4 of the 8 homes had drainage issues that the new homeowner got stuck with…which is probably why that developer got the land so cheap! Saslaw may honestly believe charter schools don’t work, but evidence would suggest otherwise (on their efficacy) and I think he and the Dems are beholden to the teachers unions…oops…”associations.”
      And of course, the teachers CARE about the children! What a crock. Maybe individual teachers do. The union…oops…”association” does not.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        Now that it was mentioned – i.e. the part about land development, yes, an old story played out over and over as locally elected BOS – are privy to where the county is planning to extend water/sewer or new roads and surprise, surprise, they end up owning land in those very places and even more surprising the taxes are land-use taxes.. until the rezone takes place.

        We’re not talking about 21K , Those guys would laugh at that kind of money… When you buy 300 acres and a few years later it’s sold to a development company to put 1200 houses on it – a tidy sum of money.

        Moral of the story, If it’s money you’re interested in, don’t waste your time in the GA… stay home and become a BOS!

  3. djrippert Avatar

    My recollection is that Kirk Cox, a longtime public school history teacher, has been an advocate for expanded charter schools in Virginia during his time in the General Assembly.

    Elections have consequences. Keep electing Democrats like Saslaw with their hands stuck in the special interest cookie jar and keep sentencing poor kids (including a disproportionate number of people of color) to miserable educations without choice.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Hey Mr. DJ did you see Chap Petersen’s speech today? I thought he had a lot of guts to demand a return to in person instruction. It is going to cost him too. The blue team is not happy with his choice of words.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USxYxUhNIzc&feature=emb_logo

      1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
        Reed Fawell 3rd

        Chap Petersen, an honest politician in state of Virginia, a rare bird indeed.

        1. sherlockj Avatar

          Precisely. If he ever runs for Governor, he has my vote.

  4. djrippert Avatar

    My recollection is that Kirk Cox, a longtime public school history teacher, has been an advocate for expanded charter schools in Virginia during his time in the General Assembly.

    Elections have consequences. Keep electing Democrats like Saslaw with their hands stuck in the special interest cookie jar and keep sentencing poor kids (including a disproportionate number of people of color) to miserable educations without choice.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Hey Mr. DJ did you see Chap Petersen’s speech today? I thought he had a lot of guts to demand a return to in person instruction. It is going to cost him too. The blue team is not happy with his choice of words.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USxYxUhNIzc&feature=emb_logo

      1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
        Reed Fawell 3rd

        Chap Petersen, an honest politician in state of Virginia, a rare bird indeed.

        1. sherlockj Avatar

          Precisely. If he ever runs for Governor, he has my vote.

  5. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Thanks Captain. That was a good read. One of the things I am hopeful for is a new era of private school startups. I know this would be a tough challenge, but a sharp minded and dedicated leader could do something transformative by opening a school. There is a market for this in a variety of forms. This year there are 59,000 students in home schooling. Up from 37,000 in 2018-19. There are so many roadblocks to the public charter school system. It took years for Loudoun to open the charter school in Middleburg.

  6. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Thanks Captain. That was a good read. One of the things I am hopeful for is a new era of private school startups. I know this would be a tough challenge, but a sharp minded and dedicated leader could do something transformative by opening a school. There is a market for this in a variety of forms. This year there are 59,000 students in home schooling. Up from 37,000 in 2018-19. There are so many roadblocks to the public charter school system. It took years for Loudoun to open the charter school in Middleburg.

  7. djrippert Avatar

    Decidedly off topic. In my youth I was an outfielder. I had two heroes – Roberto Clemente and Hank Aaron. Clemente, a former US Marine, died on Dec 31, 1972 in a plane crash while trying to help victims of an earthquake in Nicaragua.

    I was taken back to the night of my 15th birthday today. On that exact date I watched Hank “the Hammer” Aaron break Babe Ruth’s home run record. The Hammer died today at age 86. Perhaps my favorite single sentence from a Wikipedia article. “His family could not afford baseball equipment, so he practiced by hitting bottle caps with sticks.”

    Rest in power Hank “the Hammer” Aaron.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Aaron’s batting instructor in the minor leagues had a devil of a time breaking his crosshanded bat grip. He was like your grandparents. You always thought he was going to be there.

  8. LarrytheG Avatar

    I’m totally on board for any Charter that says it wants economically disadvantaged kids AND it will transparently provide academic performance results.

    If they can do a beter job educating this demographic, I’m all for it.

  9. LarrytheG Avatar

    I’m totally on board for any Charter that says it wants economically disadvantaged kids AND it will transparently provide academic performance results.

    If they can do a beter job educating this demographic, I’m all for it.

  10. And I’m totally against a legislator whatever his party, but especially someone as powerfully positioned as Mr. Saslaw, who operates so blatantly in support of those who contribute bucketfulls to his campaign, including not only VEA but Dominion Energy and the usual array of special interests. As you say, “that is fairly standard pay-to-play stuff in the General Assembly.” We can do better.

  11. And I’m totally against a legislator whatever his party, but especially someone as powerfully positioned as Mr. Saslaw, who operates so blatantly in support of those who contribute bucketfulls to his campaign, including not only VEA but Dominion Energy and the usual array of special interests. As you say, “that is fairly standard pay-to-play stuff in the General Assembly.” We can do better.

  12. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    I am an advocate for public charter schools and think it should be easier to establish them. Furthermore, I am not a fan of Saslaw. But, come on, campaign contributions of $21,750? You really think that relatively small sum is going to “buy” his vote?

    There is another possibility here. It could be that Saslaw is against charter schools, for some reason, on principle. That coincides with the VEA’s position, so they contribute to his campaign. All interest groups try to get elected those folks that support their positions.

    I recently talked to a retired former senior legislator about this issue. He agreed with me–interest groups donate to candidates who are sympathetic to their interest. Those campaign contributions don’t buy votes; they buy access. That access gives the interest group the opportunity to pitch their position in a positive way. Often, the opposing side does not get that chance, so the legislator is left with only one perspective.

    I feel that if the state filled its legislative seats through a random drawing, with no campaign funds involved, and Saslaw was picked, he would vote pretty much the way he does now.

    Now, Steve Haner has a lot more experience with this sort of thing than I do; he has been involved at a level that I have not been. He may say that I am being very naive.

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      Of course there is a chicken or egg issue in political donations.

      On this issue, however, it is impossible to be well informed and not understand that, done well, charter schools have been a godsend to inner city youth. That is why cities like NYC have a half a million kids on charter school waitlists.

      If a legislator looks at Richmond schools and thinks well-run charters can’t do better than the worst of them, he or she is either a moron or willfully ignorant.

      The Eleanor Saslaw appointment with her going directly to run the Charter School committee of the Board of Education is one of the most politically cynical acts I have ever seen.
      .

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        I dunno, Betsey DeVos.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar

        It’s true the Success Academies do perform in NYC. It’s also true that other NYC schools also perform well, the top 3 are NOT Success Academies and apparently Success Academies cost more per pupil:

        1 Anderson School (The) K-8 $10,823
        2 New Explorations K-12 $10,124
        3 Ps 77 Lower Lab School K-5 $11,769
        4 Success Academy Charter School-Union Square K-8 $18,938
        5 Tag Young Scholars K-8 $9,029
        6 Success Academy Charter School – Bergen Beach K-6 $16,363

        https://www.schooldigger.com/go/NY/schoolrank.aspx

        New York does have an education agency like VDOE but navigating it to obtain academic results is challenging at least for some. Apparently there are some folks at Digger than know how.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          IF anyone thinks Virginia or Richmond SOL scores are poor, I invite you to go to the school digger site for New York where hundreds of schools all over New York score in the 20’s and lower:

          https://www.schooldigger.com/go/NY/schoolrank.aspx

          And Success has it’s own issues. They do not “backfill” which means they don’t replace kids that drop out and as a result they graduate a small number of kids compared to the original number of enrollment.

          In it’s first year, 2018, Success graduated 18 kids. All the other kids washed out and returned to public schools.

          I’m not just impugning Success or Charters in general – but pointing out they are not a magic solution. They have some strengths for some kids and parents but they are far from a general solution for all kids and parents and they don’t have the one requirement that public schools have and that is the public schools have to take all kids and be responsible for them for 12 grades no matter what , no matter what their parents do or not – Charters have the luxury of dumping kids that don’t meet their requirements.

          The essence of public schools is “public” – a guarantee that every kid no matter their circumstance or their parents fitness is entitled to a free k-12 education. Charter school don’t have that requirement.

          All in all, I DO SUPPORT Charter schools with two caveats.

          1. – they must accept ALL kids from economically disadvantaged demographics – that’s always been their claim that they are better.

          2. – they MUST provide transparent academic performance results AND be held accountable just as all public schools are.

          1. sherlockj Avatar

            Success meets your caveats. Success is the highest performing school system in New York State. Its student demographics are poorer and higher minority than NYC public schools in general. It has tens of thousands of kids on wait lists. No other public school system comes close.

            You seem to have some idea that public schools never have dropouts, never expel kids and never transfer poor performers and discipline problems to special schools designed for them. Get over it.

            You simply will never accept those facts. P. S. Success’ first year was not 2018.

          2. Matt Hurt Avatar

            Please be careful about comparing pass rates from one state’s assessments to another state’s assessments. Each state sets their own standards, some are more rigorous, and others less so. Then, each state sets the level of performance on their tests that they consider passing. Sometimes comparing pass rates between two states is like comparing apples to Volkswagens.

          3. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            Matt has a good point about comparisons between states. This is true on almost any issue because states differ so much in their standards and how they do things. Whenever one compares results between states, there needs to be elements in common to compare.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            If you look at School Digger, the highest ranked have scores like 98 or 99… and the low ones go to 12 and lower.

            But it could well be that their standardized test is not like the SOLs.

            in response to sherlock: look at the school digger link… there ARE some higher rated schools and thousands less spending per student. I do wonder why because one of the viewpoints here in BR about educating economically disadvantaged kids is “Mo money”. If we’re willing to pay Charters more to educate that demographic, why not public ?

            And yes, public schools do end up not graduating some kids and do have some dismal results for others than do graduate but Success Charters get to flush the kids that don’t make it and not not held accountable for how many make it, unlike accountability for public schools which have to meed benchmarks for that.

            Again, I do not oppose Charters, I support them but they are not a panacea for the bigger problems of economically disadvantaged kids.

            They can help some of them but I doubt they can help kids who do not have engaged parents … where-as public schools do.

            Finally, there are MANY public schools across Virginia, rural and urban that do an excellent job of educating economically disadvantaged kids – reading scores in the 80’s and 90’s so it’s not like public schools cannot do that. They can and they do. There are some schools in Richmond that are actually BETTER than some schools in Henrico and at the same time there are other schools in Henrico that are among the best in Va and Charters would be hard-pressed to do better.

          5. sherlockj Avatar

            “Look at all the good schools” is not a contribution to how to fix the bad schools.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar

            Why not. If they have “good” schools in Matt’s district are they not potentially good models for schools that need improvement?

            Isn’t that sorta the whole deal with CIP?

            What’s not true is that every Charter is a good school. Not all Charters are good. Some are no better than public schools.

      3. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        I agree with Dick, the donations do not drive any of this. Most likely his firm position comes from his wife, as many legislators have told me over the years “I have to vote that way or I cannot go home!” VEA gives to Democrats is not news…..

    2. Yeah… I do believe $21,750 can buy a Delegate. In Henrico, I think 5 contributions of $250 (in 1987) to Supervisors later ended up in the contributor’s minor subdivision being approved on land where a septic system is questionable at best. There were no contributions before or after by this individual, but 4 of the 8 homes had drainage issues that the new homeowner got stuck with…which is probably why that developer got the land so cheap! Saslaw may honestly believe charter schools don’t work, but evidence would suggest otherwise (on their efficacy) and I think he and the Dems are beholden to the teachers unions…oops…”associations.”
      And of course, the teachers CARE about the children! What a crock. Maybe individual teachers do. The union…oops…”association” does not.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        Now that it was mentioned – i.e. the part about land development, yes, an old story played out over and over as locally elected BOS – are privy to where the county is planning to extend water/sewer or new roads and surprise, surprise, they end up owning land in those very places and even more surprising the taxes are land-use taxes.. until the rezone takes place.

        We’re not talking about 21K , Those guys would laugh at that kind of money… When you buy 300 acres and a few years later it’s sold to a development company to put 1200 houses on it – a tidy sum of money.

        Moral of the story, If it’s money you’re interested in, don’t waste your time in the GA… stay home and become a BOS!

  13. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    I agree with Dick, the donations do not drive any of this. Most likely his firm position comes from his wife, as many legislators have told me over the years “I have to vote that way or I cannot go home!” VEA gives to Democrats is not news…..

    Like all the best interest/pressure groups it is the existence of so many registered voters on their email list that gives VEA clout, more so than the money.

    But I disagree with Dick and have always enjoyed talking to and working for (or against) Saslaw on an issue. It is the personalities that keep me interested in this, something I’m really missing right now. He is one of the handful left who span my whole 36 years doing this.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      For seven years of my life political and lobbyist contributions paid my salary, and then I flipped to the other side and started mailing out the checks….might affect my POV. 🙂 I was only half kidding about the spouse, though — that often happens!

      1. sherlockj Avatar

        It would in my case.

    2. sherlockj Avatar

      His record-setting fund raising in a district that is non-competitive is an embarrassment to the Commonwealth. I read the words “donations guarantee access” as if that is OK, an artifact of efficient government. It is a profoundly cynical view. He personifies the reason that campaign donation limits are necessary.

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        I did not meant that guaranteeing access through donations is OK. It is just a fact. It is human nature. If you are a legislator and two folks want appointments, you will give preference to the one that you know. As Steve says, it is all about personalities. That is why the legislative process has always fascinated me. It is a great study in human nature and interactions.

        His fund raising in a district that is non-competitive is more about his leadership PACS.

  14. TooManyTaxes Avatar
    TooManyTaxes

    Let’s make Virginia have the toughest campaign finance laws in the state. Contributions are allowed only from living persons, residing in Virginia. No corporate, other business, nonprofit, labor unions or PAC contributions. No bundling. And no contributions except from individuals not residing in the same district as the candidate.

    Candidates for statewide office can accept contributions from any Virginia resident. Candidates for delegate and state senator can accept contributions from only people living in the same district. Ditto for county supervisors, city and town council members and school board members.

    This would greatly reduce the influence of large entities from across the political spectrum, as well as wealthy people wanting to remake the Old Dominion as they desire.

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      All but a few states have some campaign donation limits. Virginia is one of those few. The public will have to get riled up before anything changes. I am not sure what that will take. This issue, like many others, will suffer from inattention as regional newspapers fade from the scene.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Bill filing deadline has passed. Not finding that one in the hopper. Again. My next writing project….manana. Petersen’s annual bills already dead.

  15. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Well, could be that the school system is working just too well. Maybe? Could be? I mean, we’re banging the drum at improving the source while the sinks don’t, and never will, exist.

    Let’s look back a few years, circa 2012/14 when times weren’t too bad. But things ain’t gettin’ better anytime too soon.

    “A report from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that the underemployment rate for all college graduates 22-65 has held steady at around 33% for the past three decades. For recent college graduates 22-27, the numbers have been rising steadily, with the underemployment rate rising to 44% in 2012. Compared to the unemployment rate, which fluctuated from anywhere between 4% and 10% during the same time period.”
    https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/current_issues/ci20-1.pdf

    So whaddya wanna do? You’re looking to pass more and more out of better and better K-12 programs, which will in turn put more and more into colleges and universities to obtain degrees that will NEVER be used on the job AT AN INCREASING RATE!

    We’re not talking an Art History Ph.D. here either. We’re talking underemployed engineers, physicists, and the other STEM degrees too. The degrees with which we are glutting the economy and the workforce.

    In the 70s the NYC subway ran a Stay-in-School PSA ad in the cars that read “I is a high school dropout,” under which the graffiti artists scratched “I is also a millionaire”, “I is your boss”, etc. Humor, I suppose, but just some 8 years before America’s lawns were being mowed by aeronautical engineers.

    Oooh, how elitist of me, but reading that I could not help but see Lucille Ball on the candy line scarfing up chocolates because they were coming down the line faster than she could box them.

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      Perhaps the most cynical and hopeless view of public education I have ever read.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Meh. Hyperbole much? I’m good, but not THAT good.

        Automation boss, automation. Don’t take it personally, but even the military is replacing the front and back seats on a strike aircraft with a Staff Sergeant at Nellis with a console.

        AI isn’t just helping the highly trained and educated, it’s replacing them. Software writing software, designing circuits, building machines, replacing people. 80s scifi but it’s happening.

        World’s changing and what used to be a ticket is now an anxiety. Start reading on underemployment. The sentiment of not thriving is rising.

        Read the professional want ads. So many looking for BS with 3+ and Ph.D. preferred. Really? Gotta be kidding! Somebody better explain to HR exactly what they’re saying.

        BTW, when it comes to cynical, you ain’t no slouch. Really, it’s all about political money?

  16. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Well, could be that the school system is working just too well. Maybe? Could be? I mean, we’re banging the drum at improving the source while the sinks don’t, and never will, exist.

    Let’s look back a few years, circa 2012/14 when times weren’t too bad. But things ain’t gettin’ better anytime too soon.

    “A report from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that the underemployment rate for all college graduates 22-65 has held steady at around 33% for the past three decades. For recent college graduates 22-27, the numbers have been rising steadily, with the underemployment rate rising to 44% in 2012. Compared to the unemployment rate, which fluctuated from anywhere between 4% and 10% during the same time period.”
    https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/current_issues/ci20-1.pdf

    So whaddya wanna do? You’re looking to pass more and more out of better and better K-12 programs, which will in turn put more and more into colleges and universities to obtain degrees that will NEVER be used on the job AT AN INCREASING RATE!

    We’re not talking an Art History Ph.D. here either. We’re talking underemployed engineers, physicists, and the other STEM degrees too. The degrees with which we are glutting the economy and the workforce.

    In the 70s the NYC subway ran a Stay-in-School PSA ad in the cars that read “I is a high school dropout,” under which the graffiti artists scratched “I is also a millionaire”, “I is your boss”, etc. Humor, I suppose, but just some 8 years before America’s lawns were being mowed by aeronautical engineers.

    Oooh, how elitist of me, but reading that I could not help but see Lucille Ball on the candy line scarfing up chocolates because they were coming down the line faster than she could box them.

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      Perhaps the most cynical and hopeless view of public education I have ever read.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Meh. Hyperbole much? I’m good, but not THAT good.

        Automation boss, automation. Don’t take it personally, but even the military is replacing the front and back seats on a strike aircraft with a Staff Sergeant at Nellis with a console.

        AI isn’t just helping the highly trained and educated, it’s replacing them. Software writing software, designing circuits, building machines, replacing people. 80s scifi but it’s happening.

        World’s changing and what used to be a ticket is now an anxiety. Start reading on underemployment. The sentiment of not thriving is rising.

        Read the professional want ads. So many looking for BS with 3+ and Ph.D. preferred. Really? Gotta be kidding! Somebody better explain to HR exactly what they’re saying.

        BTW, when it comes to cynical, you ain’t no slouch. Really, it’s all about political money?

  17. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    I agree with Dick, the donations do not drive any of this. Most likely his firm position comes from his wife, as many legislators have told me over the years “I have to vote that way or I cannot go home!” VEA gives to Democrats is not news…..

    Like all the best interest/pressure groups it is the existence of so many registered voters on their email list that gives VEA clout, more so than the money.

    But I disagree with Dick and have always enjoyed talking to and working for (or against) Saslaw on an issue. It is the personalities that keep me interested in this, something I’m really missing right now. He is one of the handful left who span my whole 36 years doing this.

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      His record-setting fund raising in a district that is non-competitive is an embarrassment to the Commonwealth. I read the words “donations guarantee access” as if that is OK, an artifact of efficient government. It is a profoundly cynical view. He personifies the reason that campaign donation limits are necessary.

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        I did not meant that guaranteeing access through donations is OK. It is just a fact. It is human nature. If you are a legislator and two folks want appointments, you will give preference to the one that you know. As Steve says, it is all about personalities. That is why the legislative process has always fascinated me. It is a great study in human nature and interactions.

        His fund raising in a district that is non-competitive is more about his leadership PACS.

    2. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      For seven years of my life political and lobbyist contributions paid my salary, and then I flipped to the other side and started mailing out the checks….might affect my POV. 🙂 I was only half kidding about the spouse, though — that often happens!

      1. sherlockj Avatar

        It would in my case.

  18. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
    Eric the Half a Troll

    Local school boards are answerable to their constituents. If the local voters want charter schools in their county, they will elect a SB who will approve them. Why would you want to move that power to a state level entity that is not answerable to the voters?

    Also, 2013?, 2016? Remind me again who was in control of the Virginia legislature then…?

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      Republican control is less dispositive on issues like this in the GA with unlimited campaign money sloshing over everything. In Virginia, opponents of charter schools get two shots at them before they can be approved- state BOE and school boards. I’d be happy if school boards could approve the exclusively.

  19. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
    Eric the Half a Troll

    Local school boards are answerable to their constituents. If the local voters want charter schools in their county, they will elect a SB who will approve them. Why would you want to move that power to a state level entity that is not answerable to the voters?

    Also, 2013?, 2016? Remind me again who was in control of the Virginia legislature then…?

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      Republican control is less dispositive on issues like this in the GA with unlimited campaign money sloshing over everything. In Virginia, opponents of charter schools get two shots at them before they can be approved- state BOE and school boards. I’d be happy if school boards could approve the exclusively.

  20. TooManyTaxes Avatar
    TooManyTaxes

    Let’s make Virginia have the toughest campaign finance laws in the state. Contributions are allowed only from living persons, residing in Virginia. No corporate, other business, nonprofit, labor unions or PAC contributions. No bundling. And no contributions except from individuals not residing in the same district as the candidate.

    Candidates for statewide office can accept contributions from any Virginia resident. Candidates for delegate and state senator can accept contributions from only people living in the same district. Ditto for county supervisors, city and town council members and school board members.

    This would greatly reduce the influence of large entities from across the political spectrum, as well as wealthy people wanting to remake the Old Dominion as they desire.

    1. sherlockj Avatar

      All but a few states have some campaign donation limits. Virginia is one of those few. The public will have to get riled up before anything changes. I am not sure what that will take. This issue, like many others, will suffer from inattention as regional newspapers fade from the scene.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Bill filing deadline has passed. Not finding that one in the hopper. Again. My next writing project….manana. Petersen’s annual bills already dead.

  21. ksmith8953 Avatar
    ksmith8953

    Choice is choice, charter or otherwise. School boards want no choice dollars leaving their purview. Sad. I once had a parent of a student in Richmond City tell me she got a call from a virtual school offering a free education. She asked the caller why they were calling her as she hadn’t called the company. Come to find out, it was her daughter who had called. Sad again. I also visited a school in another state that was under state takeover. The discipline was off the chart. The principal wore four inch heels and stayed in her office all day, as reported by the teachers. I was in one classroom in which a young lady came in late, cursed at the teacher, proceeded to the phone in the back of the room, called her mother, cursed at her mother, hung up, and responded to the teacher’s question of why she wasn’t using her cell phone, with another curse informing him her battery was dead. Mind you, the principal said she working hard to enforce the no cell phone policy. Not even sad, ridiculous. That would not happen in Matt’s schools!

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Virginia delegates a lot of choices to the locality. 3/4 of Virginia geography and counties are Conservative. Most of them vote GOP heavily and never failing.

      If Conservatives believe that Charter schools are better – why don’t the Conservtive counties and their conservative-voting citizens do it?

      Why is the GOP SO-interested in pushing charters in places that are not Conservative while basically ignoring the places that are and likely the easiest places to make it happen?

      1. sherlockj Avatar

        Larry, the proven model for charter schools is the urban minorities model.

        The best charters in those environments start with the cooperation of applicants’ parents by instilling personal, school and classroom discipline that is not matched in other public schools that they are thus “chartered” to replace.

        Virginia schools in “conservative” areas typically do not exhibit the disruptive lack of discipline that plagues some public schools in, for example, Richmond’s poorest schools.

        That is why teachers in CIP schools have been able to exchange “best practices” for instructional techniques that can be successful. Because the foundational requirement for classroom discipline is met.

        Virginia urban schools have not been members of the CIP alliance long enough to measure whether they can benefit from CIP protocols.

        But I will guarantee you that if classrooms are chaotic, as in many urban schools, and kids are granted unlimited absences and not graded on homework, test scores or class participation, like in Albemarle County, CIP teaching techniques have no chance of success.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          so… CIP will not “work” in urban schools because of the discipline issues?

          1. sherlockj Avatar

            CIP will not work in any school that has chaotic classrooms: rural, suburban or urban. Matt would tell you the same thing.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            so not really about “charter” schools per se but getting rid of public schools that don’t have discipline or will implement it?

            Is that what Success Academies is really about also?

          3. sherlockj Avatar

            No, once the discipline prerequisites for learning are established, Success Academies lean in to CIP-like standards and their own active training and mentoring of teachers with unmatched ardor.

            I have written extensively here about how they do what they do better than any system of their size in America, but it starts with disciplined children , disciplined learning environments and parental support.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            so not every school or school system is a good candidate for Charters if they don’t have discipline issues?

            Why would Conservtives care about “liberal” places with these issues to start with, especially if the folks that are in those places are not “conservative” and reject conservative values in large part anyhow?

            Why not try to get Charters approved in places where you have the support of the locality?

          5. sherlockj Avatar

            “Why would Conservtives care about “liberal” places with these issues to start with, especially if the folks that are in those places are not “conservative” and reject conservative values in large part anyhow?”

            You have revealed again perhaps your most basic misunderstanding of me and other conservatives of my persuasion.

            I have spent the past 15 years trying to develop and offer working solutions to the problems of poverty. I don’t care how poor people vote.

            I often find that government is the problem, not the solution, as in its utter rejection of charter schools.

            That fact and because my solutions constitute something other than writing checks and I do not single out minorities for special emphasis, I am considered by people who don’t read or comprehend the context of my remarks suspect or even hostile to their interests.

            I suggest you approach what I write with a different lens and you might discover you agree with me.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar

            Charters are themselves “government solutions”. They are, by definition, government funded schools.

            AND they ARE …LOCAL government – local school boards and local city council.

            I’m not sure if they are not willing, how one justifies higher levels of government forcing them to do something they do not agree with.

            Richmond may be an easy example to point to but how about a place like Henrico which has many schools like Richmond does.

            What mechanism would be used to force Henrico to stand up Charter schools in neighborhoods with poor performing schools and if you did would you turn over all kids to those charters or only the ones that were not discipline problems? The others would stay in the Henrico public schools so there would be two schools in the neighborhood and taxpayers would be paying for both?

            what I see is a huge gap between theory and reality both fiscal and political.

            I don’t think the teachers union in Henrico would oppose charters near as much as the rest of the taxpayers who would have to pay increased property taxes to pay for those charters.

  22. Matt Hurt Avatar

    Please keep in mind that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and at the end of the day, as long as the cat’s skinned, we should be happy. I’m afraid that we have become so focused on programmatic prescriptions, that we don’t always focus on the conditions that have to be in place to achieve success. These conditions can be had in both traditional public schooling as well as in charter schools. Similarly, these conditions can be absent from both.

    Prior to Covid, we facilitated fall teacher meetings in regional locations to allow English and math teachers of the same course from different divisions to gather to share resources, share ideas, cry on each other’s shoulders, provide mutual support, and etc. There were no real agendas other than to provide teachers an opportunity to collaborate with their peers. Any teacher was allowed to register, and many did year after year because they really appreciated this opportunity. Each year, we looked over the registration list to determine if any of our “most successful teachers of our most at-risk students” were going to attend. These are defined as those teachers who had 50% or more of their students who were identified as economically disadvantaged, and they also had all of the students with disabilities of their grade level in their classes as well. Yet despite that, they produced phenomenal SOL performance with their students that would rival (and many times outperform) teachers who did not have students with these challenges. At the meetings, we specifically called out those “most successful teachers of our most at-risk students” and asked them- “How in the world did you get the wonderful performance on the SOL test with that group of kids?” Every time we asked them that question, they consistently and without fail discussed three things in common that they considered their secrets to success- curriculum alignment, relationships, and expectations.

    Curriculum alignment means that these teachers make sure to ask their students to exhibit in class what they’re expected to exhibit on the SOL test. The state’s curriculum framework (the documents that the VDOE provides to teachers that expands the details of each standard) are the instructional Bibles for these folks. They typically don’t rely on textbooks very much, because there are no textbooks that align 100% to Virginia’s standards. (Virginia did not adopt the common core as did most states, and Virginia doesn’t have enough of the market share in the textbook business for publishers to spend a lot of their resources to provide texts that highly align to Virginia’s Standards. They typically make a few superficial changes to what they offer to everyone else, and slap Virginia logos here and there.) These folks scour the internet, steal from their colleagues, and spend many hours creating instructional materials that do align 100% to Virginia’s standards. They realize that the SOL fairies will not visit their students the night before their SOL tests and sprinkle them with magic performance dust, so they make sure they prepare them.

    Please note- some folks might say that this is teaching to the test, and if the test assesses a student’s wrote memory (such as what is mostly assessed on the history and to a lesser degree the science SOL tests), they would be exactly right. However, Virginia’s reading and math SOL tests assess skills, and I don’t think any parent would argue that the skills assessed are not valuable for their children to have mastered. These SOL reading and math tests are not perfect, but I know that I want my daughter to perform well on them, and would be very upset with her school if she didn’t.

    These “most successful teachers of our most at-risk students” report consistently that developing positive, professional relationships with their students are crucial. Most at-risk students typically earn low grades, and they expect to do so in the future, therefore, grades usually do not motivate them. Similarly, the parents of these students usually had bad experiences in school, and do not expect their children to have a different experience. However, if these kids feel that their teacher loves them and really cares about them, they will walk through the fires of Hell for them, and they’ll also do their work and try hard to please their teacher.

    These teachers also report that they have very high expectations of even their students who struggle the most. This means that the lowest expectation they have of their most struggling student is that this student will score at least a 400 on their SOL test. As soon as that student evidences that he/she is not on track to meet that expectation, the teacher swoops into action and provides that student with additional remediation outside of normal class time. The teacher not only expects the student to perform at least to the level of the state minimum expectation, but expects himself/herself to make sure that happens.

    The ideas of curriculum alignment and relationships are pretty easy for folks to accurately wrap their heads around. This idea of expectations is a different matter entirely. If you ask any teacher or any administrator in the Commonwealth, they will tell you that they have very high expectations for all kids. However, when you compare student final grades (student performance based on teacher expectations) to student SOL proficiency (student performance based on the state’s expectation) you quickly see that not all expectations are at the same high levels. You also find that there is a statistically significant, positive correlation between higher expectations (where the classroom and state’s expectations align better) and higher SOL pass rates. We also see the converse in that classes, schools, and divisions that make it easier for students to earn higher grades (i.e. where expectations of student performance is lower) tend to have lower SOL pass rates. We also see that differences in expectations among the different subgroups in the same schools and divisions yield higher performance gaps in those subgroups.

    The idea of high expectations is foundational to student success, and is often tied up in the culture of a school or a division. Things are the way they are for many reasons, and most of these reasons are tied up in that culture. School/division culture is a living, breathing being that actively resists change. For example, if a low performing school measures their expectations and determines that they are well below what they should be (which I bet is the case nearly 100% of the time), and they work to fix that, the grades will drop for most students. Then the conflict follows when students and parents complain, because they were used to the old expectations.

    Another thing to consider is that organizations can only do a few things well, and the more you ask to be accomplished, the fewer things that can be done well. Public schools are asked to address the physical and emotional needs of their kids, and oh yeah, by the way, you also have to teach them. Of course, Maslow tells us that when those basic needs are not met, other things likely won’t happen. However, there are many initiatives that have been/are being/will be implemented in schools, divisions, and the state as a whole that are designed/intended to improve outcomes for students, but may not be well aligned with strategies that actually yield improved outcomes for students. In fact, some of these initiatives actually provide a stumbling block which distracts educators from addressing issues that will in fact provide positive results for students.

    An example of this can be found in the proposed changes to Virginia’s evaluation system for teachers and administrators that the state Board of Education will accept for first read this week. For the last ten years or so, there have been seven standards against which educators have been evaluated. The current proposal on the table is to add an eighth- Culturally Responsive Teaching and Equitable Practices. The entire document that the state Board will receive is linked below.
    https://www.doe.virginia.gov/boe/meetings/2021/01-jan/item-g-attachment-a.docx

    While the idea of culturally responsive practices is the current in vogue topic in education, and it certainly can provide benefits to our educational program, this topic is only tangentially aligned to improving outcomes for students, at least in my estimation. I bet dollars to donuts that if we were to study the outcomes of students in schools and divisions that have implemented these practices compared to others, that these practices would have minimal effect on student outcomes as measured by the SOL test. Case in point- Virginia’s Region VII has experienced the greatest gains in SOL pass rates relative to the other seven regions, overall and among the economically disadvantaged, special education, and black subgroups. However, culturally responsive practices have not been implemented there.

    Again, culturally responsive practices are certainly to be viewed as a positive, but if we put all of our eggs in that basket, and neglect more impactful strategies such as increasing expectations, we are extremely likely to see little difference in student outcomes. The more we focus on things that only tangentially impact outcomes, the less change in outcomes we should expect.

    The actual point I’m feebly attempting to make here is that it doesn’t matter whether things that work are implemented in a traditional school setting or a charter school setting- good outcomes can occur. The converse is true as well.

    The benefit that a charter school can have is when the priorities of the division school board is not aligned with strategies that work to effect positive change, the charter school doesn’t have to follow the division. The charter school’s board would have the autonomy to do their own thing and then see how well that works for them.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Much appreciate your thoughts. One presumes that these activities that you relate can take place in any school setting public or charter or even private. It’s not that public schools can’t or won’t do these things and we must have charters to make it work.

      And I also don’t really subscribe to the idea that whatever Charters decide to do different is without accountability – nor are the academic results.

      There is no magic potion with Charters in my mind. There are good ones and not good ones.

      I do have some issues with the model that the Success Academies use because kids can (and do) “wash” out in the grades as they advance such that by the time the first grade class gets to graduation, it has lost a significant number of kids (according to reports) AND they do not “backfill” which means they do not open up the lottery to other kids to fill available slots – their “model” says they have to start in first grade and stay through graduation.

      When I look at this, I wonder what happens to the kids that washed out and who is responsible for them – and it goes back to public schools who end up having to remediate them and get them to graduation with some level of education even if it’s not college ready.

      To me, that’s what public schools are really about. To provide opportunity to each child no matter their station in life nor their parents – to educate them to their potential – each childs potential – not some one-size-fits-all academic achievement metric.

      Any child who is lucky enough to have a better station in life, higher educated/higher income parents, they are lucky and fortuante but that does not mean that we abandon the kids who don’t have such advantages. It’s even more important that they receive their education and setting them all up to aim for college with many who don’t get there – in Charters is really no better than that idea in public schools either.

      1. Matt Hurt Avatar

        Yes sir, you are exactly right. And I’m pretty sure we can find examples of failing charter schools as well. I think that those successful charter schools have prioritized student achievement and probably removed the roadblocks to that end that are present in other places. This can certainly happen in either setting, traditional or charter.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          Matt, in your neck of the woods has there been any efforts to stand up some Charter Schools? Good, bad or ugly?

          1. Matt Hurt Avatar

            I’m not aware of any efforts.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            Thanks. So the response across your Region to increasing academic performance was trust that the public schools would make changes to get improvements – rather than Conservatives pushing for Charter schools like they seem to be doing for the more urbanized school districts?

            I might have thought in the more Conservative regions of Virginia that they would be much more open to standing up Charter Schools for the economically disadvantaged kids since the public schools were not (until they made CIP type changes).

          3. Matt Hurt Avatar

            I’m not sure that there was much call to get this done from the general public. I think that there may be more inherent trust in the schools here since we typically have smaller communities, and everyone knows or is related to a teacher. The school folks just took this upon themselves to get it done for their kids. Again, I think this is a benefit of having these small communities, where teachers live in the same “holler” as some of their kids. There may be more of a personal interest in the well being of their students, but that would be hard to measure to be sure.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            Yes to all you wrote! And thanks! Bigger , more urbanized school districts also have “neighborhoods” and communities but they’re not the same as rural neighborhoods and communities, I agree.

            Your economically disadvantaged kids are probably more dispersed across the county and not so much concentrated and bifurcated demographically or income.

            There are, however, some “neighborhood” schools in some of the larger school districts in Virginia that have large numbers of economically-disadvantaged but like the CIP schools, have found a path that academic success.

  23. Matt Hurt Avatar

    Please keep in mind that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and at the end of the day, as long as the cat’s skinned, we should be happy. I’m afraid that we have become so focused on programmatic prescriptions, that we don’t always focus on the conditions that have to be in place to achieve success. These conditions can be had in both traditional public schooling as well as in charter schools. Similarly, these conditions can be absent from both.

    Prior to Covid, we facilitated fall teacher meetings in regional locations to allow English and math teachers of the same course from different divisions to gather to share resources, share ideas, cry on each other’s shoulders, provide mutual support, and etc. There were no real agendas other than to provide teachers an opportunity to collaborate with their peers. Any teacher was allowed to register, and many did year after year because they really appreciated this opportunity. Each year, we looked over the registration list to determine if any of our “most successful teachers of our most at-risk students” were going to attend. These are defined as those teachers who had 50% or more of their students who were identified as economically disadvantaged, and they also had all of the students with disabilities of their grade level in their classes as well. Yet despite that, they produced phenomenal SOL performance with their students that would rival (and many times outperform) teachers who did not have students with these challenges. At the meetings, we specifically called out those “most successful teachers of our most at-risk students” and asked them- “How in the world did you get the wonderful performance on the SOL test with that group of kids?” Every time we asked them that question, they consistently and without fail discussed three things in common that they considered their secrets to success- curriculum alignment, relationships, and expectations.

    Curriculum alignment means that these teachers make sure to ask their students to exhibit in class what they’re expected to exhibit on the SOL test. The state’s curriculum framework (the documents that the VDOE provides to teachers that expands the details of each standard) are the instructional Bibles for these folks. They typically don’t rely on textbooks very much, because there are no textbooks that align 100% to Virginia’s standards. (Virginia did not adopt the common core as did most states, and Virginia doesn’t have enough of the market share in the textbook business for publishers to spend a lot of their resources to provide texts that highly align to Virginia’s Standards. They typically make a few superficial changes to what they offer to everyone else, and slap Virginia logos here and there.) These folks scour the internet, steal from their colleagues, and spend many hours creating instructional materials that do align 100% to Virginia’s standards. They realize that the SOL fairies will not visit their students the night before their SOL tests and sprinkle them with magic performance dust, so they make sure they prepare them.

    Please note- some folks might say that this is teaching to the test, and if the test assesses a student’s wrote memory (such as what is mostly assessed on the history and to a lesser degree the science SOL tests), they would be exactly right. However, Virginia’s reading and math SOL tests assess skills, and I don’t think any parent would argue that the skills assessed are not valuable for their children to have mastered. These SOL reading and math tests are not perfect, but I know that I want my daughter to perform well on them, and would be very upset with her school if she didn’t.

    These “most successful teachers of our most at-risk students” report consistently that developing positive, professional relationships with their students are crucial. Most at-risk students typically earn low grades, and they expect to do so in the future, therefore, grades usually do not motivate them. Similarly, the parents of these students usually had bad experiences in school, and do not expect their children to have a different experience. However, if these kids feel that their teacher loves them and really cares about them, they will walk through the fires of Hell for them, and they’ll also do their work and try hard to please their teacher.

    These teachers also report that they have very high expectations of even their students who struggle the most. This means that the lowest expectation they have of their most struggling student is that this student will score at least a 400 on their SOL test. As soon as that student evidences that he/she is not on track to meet that expectation, the teacher swoops into action and provides that student with additional remediation outside of normal class time. The teacher not only expects the student to perform at least to the level of the state minimum expectation, but expects himself/herself to make sure that happens.

    The ideas of curriculum alignment and relationships are pretty easy for folks to accurately wrap their heads around. This idea of expectations is a different matter entirely. If you ask any teacher or any administrator in the Commonwealth, they will tell you that they have very high expectations for all kids. However, when you compare student final grades (student performance based on teacher expectations) to student SOL proficiency (student performance based on the state’s expectation) you quickly see that not all expectations are at the same high levels. You also find that there is a statistically significant, positive correlation between higher expectations (where the classroom and state’s expectations align better) and higher SOL pass rates. We also see the converse in that classes, schools, and divisions that make it easier for students to earn higher grades (i.e. where expectations of student performance is lower) tend to have lower SOL pass rates. We also see that differences in expectations among the different subgroups in the same schools and divisions yield higher performance gaps in those subgroups.

    The idea of high expectations is foundational to student success, and is often tied up in the culture of a school or a division. Things are the way they are for many reasons, and most of these reasons are tied up in that culture. School/division culture is a living, breathing being that actively resists change. For example, if a low performing school measures their expectations and determines that they are well below what they should be (which I bet is the case nearly 100% of the time), and they work to fix that, the grades will drop for most students. Then the conflict follows when students and parents complain, because they were used to the old expectations.

    Another thing to consider is that organizations can only do a few things well, and the more you ask to be accomplished, the fewer things that can be done well. Public schools are asked to address the physical and emotional needs of their kids, and oh yeah, by the way, you also have to teach them. Of course, Maslow tells us that when those basic needs are not met, other things likely won’t happen. However, there are many initiatives that have been/are being/will be implemented in schools, divisions, and the state as a whole that are designed/intended to improve outcomes for students, but may not be well aligned with strategies that actually yield improved outcomes for students. In fact, some of these initiatives actually provide a stumbling block which distracts educators from addressing issues that will in fact provide positive results for students.

    An example of this can be found in the proposed changes to Virginia’s evaluation system for teachers and administrators that the state Board of Education will accept for first read this week. For the last ten years or so, there have been seven standards against which educators have been evaluated. The current proposal on the table is to add an eighth- Culturally Responsive Teaching and Equitable Practices. The entire document that the state Board will receive is linked below.
    https://www.doe.virginia.gov/boe/meetings/2021/01-jan/item-g-attachment-a.docx

    While the idea of culturally responsive practices is the current in vogue topic in education, and it certainly can provide benefits to our educational program, this topic is only tangentially aligned to improving outcomes for students, at least in my estimation. I bet dollars to donuts that if we were to study the outcomes of students in schools and divisions that have implemented these practices compared to others, that these practices would have minimal effect on student outcomes as measured by the SOL test. Case in point- Virginia’s Region VII has experienced the greatest gains in SOL pass rates relative to the other seven regions, overall and among the economically disadvantaged, special education, and black subgroups. However, culturally responsive practices have not been implemented there.

    Again, culturally responsive practices are certainly to be viewed as a positive, but if we put all of our eggs in that basket, and neglect more impactful strategies such as increasing expectations, we are extremely likely to see little difference in student outcomes. The more we focus on things that only tangentially impact outcomes, the less change in outcomes we should expect.

    The actual point I’m feebly attempting to make here is that it doesn’t matter whether things that work are implemented in a traditional school setting or a charter school setting- good outcomes can occur. The converse is true as well.

    The benefit that a charter school can have is when the priorities of the division school board is not aligned with strategies that work to effect positive change, the charter school doesn’t have to follow the division. The charter school’s board would have the autonomy to do their own thing and then see how well that works for them.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Much appreciate your thoughts. One presumes that these activities that you relate can take place in any school setting public or charter or even private. It’s not that public schools can’t or won’t do these things and we must have charters to make it work.

      And I also don’t really subscribe to the idea that whatever Charters decide to do different is without accountability – nor are the academic results.

      There is no magic potion with Charters in my mind. There are good ones and not good ones.

      I do have some issues with the model that the Success Academies use because kids can (and do) “wash” out in the grades as they advance such that by the time the first grade class gets to graduation, it has lost a significant number of kids (according to reports) AND they do not “backfill” which means they do not open up the lottery to other kids to fill available slots – their “model” says they have to start in first grade and stay through graduation.

      When I look at this, I wonder what happens to the kids that washed out and who is responsible for them – and it goes back to public schools who end up having to remediate them and get them to graduation with some level of education even if it’s not college ready.

      To me, that’s what public schools are really about. To provide opportunity to each child no matter their station in life nor their parents – to educate them to their potential – each childs potential – not some one-size-fits-all academic achievement metric.

      Any child who is lucky enough to have a better station in life, higher educated/higher income parents, they are lucky and fortuante but that does not mean that we abandon the kids who don’t have such advantages. It’s even more important that they receive their education and setting them all up to aim for college with many who don’t get there – in Charters is really no better than that idea in public schools either.

      1. Matt Hurt Avatar

        Yes sir, you are exactly right. And I’m pretty sure we can find examples of failing charter schools as well. I think that those successful charter schools have prioritized student achievement and probably removed the roadblocks to that end that are present in other places. This can certainly happen in either setting, traditional or charter.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          Matt, in your neck of the woods has there been any efforts to stand up some Charter Schools? Good, bad or ugly?

          1. Matt Hurt Avatar

            I’m not aware of any efforts.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            Thanks. So the response across your Region to increasing academic performance was trust that the public schools would make changes to get improvements – rather than Conservatives pushing for Charter schools like they seem to be doing for the more urbanized school districts?

            I might have thought in the more Conservative regions of Virginia that they would be much more open to standing up Charter Schools for the economically disadvantaged kids since the public schools were not (until they made CIP type changes).

          3. Matt Hurt Avatar

            I’m not sure that there was much call to get this done from the general public. I think that there may be more inherent trust in the schools here since we typically have smaller communities, and everyone knows or is related to a teacher. The school folks just took this upon themselves to get it done for their kids. Again, I think this is a benefit of having these small communities, where teachers live in the same “holler” as some of their kids. There may be more of a personal interest in the well being of their students, but that would be hard to measure to be sure.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            Yes to all you wrote! And thanks! Bigger , more urbanized school districts also have “neighborhoods” and communities but they’re not the same as rural neighborhoods and communities, I agree.

            Your economically disadvantaged kids are probably more dispersed across the county and not so much concentrated and bifurcated demographically or income.

            There are, however, some “neighborhood” schools in some of the larger school districts in Virginia that have large numbers of economically-disadvantaged but like the CIP schools, have found a path that academic success.

  24. ksmith8953 Avatar
    ksmith8953

    Matt, you come from the best schools in Virginia, the South Southwest. Your districts take the education of children seriously. That is not true everywhere in Virginia, like Petersburg. Although you work hard as a matter of pride, some school boards in economically disadvantaged communities do not. The school board association is one of the culprits of limited support for charter schools. Don’t touch their money as it influences their power.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Interesting comment. No school boards in Virginia have the right to tax. That means the BOS controls their funding and locally, we have fiscal food fights all the time over what money is being spent for what even as the SB asserts that they make those decisions and the BOS decides the overall level of funding.

      I’m not clear in the circumstance of a BOS that would want a Charter in their county even if the SB did not – how they would go forward and make it happen without the SB.

      1. Matt Hurt Avatar

        From my understanding of how this works, which is admittedly limited, a charter school would not affect the overall division funding formula that much, and I don’t think it would affect the locality’s required local effort/match at all. Basically, the school board would be required to fund the charter school at the same rate as the other schools- pretty much robbing Peter to pay Paul. Unless the locality decides to do otherwise, charters wouldn’t change the education bill’s tally, but would change how the money was distributed within the division.

  25. ksmith8953 Avatar
    ksmith8953

    Matt, you come from the best schools in Virginia, the South Southwest. Your districts take the education of children seriously. That is not true everywhere in Virginia, like Petersburg. Although you work hard as a matter of pride, some school boards in economically disadvantaged communities do not. The school board association is one of the culprits of limited support for charter schools. Don’t touch their money as it influences their power.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Interesting comment. No school boards in Virginia have the right to tax. That means the BOS controls their funding and locally, we have fiscal food fights all the time over what money is being spent for what even as the SB asserts that they make those decisions and the BOS decides the overall level of funding.

      I’m not clear in the circumstance of a BOS that would want a Charter in their county even if the SB did not – how they would go forward and make it happen without the SB.

      1. Matt Hurt Avatar

        From my understanding of how this works, which is admittedly limited, a charter school would not affect the overall division funding formula that much, and I don’t think it would affect the locality’s required local effort/match at all. Basically, the school board would be required to fund the charter school at the same rate as the other schools- pretty much robbing Peter to pay Paul. Unless the locality decides to do otherwise, charters wouldn’t change the education bill’s tally, but would change how the money was distributed within the division.

  26. Inthemiddle Avatar
    Inthemiddle

    VDOE, like many local school systems, is committed ‘to the principles of anti-racism, cultural proficiency, resource equity and high expectations for all students’. They recognize that ‘Anti-racist education leaders are critical partners in our effort to advance our broader equity priorities including: developing a culturally competent educator workforce…’

    At some point, someone in the Anti-racist crowd will conclude that the only way to develop a culturally competent educator workforce is in a school that is specifically designed to be Anti-racist. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/edequityva/navigating-equity-book.pdf

    A charter school would be an appropriate form for that school, but the Anti-racists will have to take on the teachers’ union to make it happen.

  27. Inthemiddle Avatar
    Inthemiddle

    VDOE, like many local school systems, is committed ‘to the principles of anti-racism, cultural proficiency, resource equity and high expectations for all students’. They recognize that ‘Anti-racist education leaders are critical partners in our effort to advance our broader equity priorities including: developing a culturally competent educator workforce…’

    At some point, someone in the Anti-racist crowd will conclude that the only way to develop a culturally competent educator workforce is in a school that is specifically designed to be Anti-racist. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/edequityva/navigating-equity-book.pdf

    A charter school would be an appropriate form for that school, but the Anti-racists will have to take on the teachers’ union to make it happen.

  28. LarrytheG Avatar

    Something to recognize. There are quite a few BOS in Virginia counties that ARE Conservative and no doubt share views about these issues with Conservatives who write here in BR and other places.

    Those Conservative leaders in those counties DO have the opportunity to go a different way including standing up Charters.

    Rather than rail against the ones that won’t and blame it on teachers unions, why not do it in those Conservative counties with relatively weak or non-existent teacher unions – then expand it from that starting point?

    Conservatives can’t be blaming others and playing victim forever.

  29. LarrytheG Avatar

    Something to recognize. There are quite a few BOS in Virginia counties that ARE Conservative and no doubt share views about these issues with Conservatives who write here in BR and other places.

    Those Conservative leaders in those counties DO have the opportunity to go a different way including standing up Charters.

    Rather than rail against the ones that won’t and blame it on teachers unions, why not do it in those Conservative counties with relatively weak or non-existent teacher unions – then expand it from that starting point?

    Conservatives can’t be blaming others and playing victim forever.

  30. ksmith8953 Avatar
    ksmith8953

    Choice is choice, charter or otherwise. School boards want no choice dollars leaving their purview. Sad. I once had a parent of a student in Richmond City tell me she got a call from a virtual school offering a free education. She asked the caller why they were calling her as she hadn’t called the company. Come to find out, it was her daughter who had called. Sad again. I also visited a school in another state that was under state takeover. The discipline was off the chart. The principal wore four inch heels and stayed in her office all day, as reported by the teachers. I was in one classroom in which a young lady came in late, cursed at the teacher, proceeded to the phone in the back of the room, called her mother, cursed at her mother, hung up, and responded to the teacher’s question of why she wasn’t using her cell phone, with another curse informing him her battery was dead. Mind you, the principal said she working hard to enforce the no cell phone policy. Not even sad, ridiculous. That would not happen in Matt’s schools!

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Virginia delegates a lot of choices to the locality. 3/4 of Virginia geography and counties are Conservative. Most of them vote GOP heavily and never failing.

      If Conservatives believe that Charter schools are better – why don’t the Conservtive counties and their conservative-voting citizens do it?

      Why is the GOP SO-interested in pushing charters in places that are not Conservative while basically ignoring the places that are and likely the easiest places to make it happen?

      1. sherlockj Avatar

        Larry, the proven model for charter schools is the urban minorities model.

        The best charters in those environments start with the cooperation of applicants’ parents by instilling personal, school and classroom discipline that is not matched in other public schools that they are thus “chartered” to replace.

        Virginia schools in “conservative” areas typically do not exhibit the disruptive lack of discipline that plagues some public schools in, for example, Richmond’s poorest schools.

        That is why teachers in CIP schools have been able to exchange “best practices” for instructional techniques that can be successful. Because the foundational requirement for classroom discipline is met.

        Virginia urban schools have not been members of the CIP alliance long enough to measure whether they can benefit from CIP protocols.

        But I will guarantee you that if classrooms are chaotic, as in many urban schools, and kids are granted unlimited absences and not graded on homework, test scores or class participation, like in Albemarle County, CIP teaching techniques have no chance of success.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          so… CIP will not “work” in urban schools because of the discipline issues?

          1. sherlockj Avatar

            CIP will not work in any school that has chaotic classrooms: rural, suburban or urban. Matt would tell you the same thing.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            so not really about “charter” schools per se but getting rid of public schools that don’t have discipline or will implement it?

            Is that what Success Academies is really about also?

          3. sherlockj Avatar

            No, once the discipline prerequisites for learning are established, Success Academies lean in to CIP-like standards and their own active training and mentoring of teachers with unmatched ardor.

            I have written extensively here about how they do what they do better than any system of their size in America, but it starts with disciplined children , disciplined learning environments and parental support.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            so not every school or school system is a good candidate for Charters if they don’t have discipline issues?

            Why would Conservtives care about “liberal” places with these issues to start with, especially if the folks that are in those places are not “conservative” and reject conservative values in large part anyhow?

            Why not try to get Charters approved in places where you have the support of the locality?

          5. sherlockj Avatar

            “Why would Conservtives care about “liberal” places with these issues to start with, especially if the folks that are in those places are not “conservative” and reject conservative values in large part anyhow?”

            You have revealed again perhaps your most basic misunderstanding of me and other conservatives of my persuasion.

            I have spent the past 15 years trying to develop and offer working solutions to the problems of poverty. I don’t care how poor people vote.

            I often find that government is the problem, not the solution, as in its utter rejection of charter schools.

            That fact and because my solutions constitute something other than writing checks and I do not single out minorities for special emphasis, I am considered by people who don’t read or comprehend the context of my remarks suspect or even hostile to their interests.

            I suggest you approach what I write with a different lens and you might discover you agree with me.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar

            Charters are themselves “government solutions”. They are, by definition, government funded schools.

            AND they ARE …LOCAL government – local school boards and local city council.

            I’m not sure if they are not willing, how one justifies higher levels of government forcing them to do something they do not agree with.

            Richmond may be an easy example to point to but how about a place like Henrico which has many schools like Richmond does.

            What mechanism would be used to force Henrico to stand up Charter schools in neighborhoods with poor performing schools and if you did would you turn over all kids to those charters or only the ones that were not discipline problems? The others would stay in the Henrico public schools so there would be two schools in the neighborhood and taxpayers would be paying for both?

            what I see is a huge gap between theory and reality both fiscal and political.

            I don’t think the teachers union in Henrico would oppose charters near as much as the rest of the taxpayers who would have to pay increased property taxes to pay for those charters.

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