Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

Bobbing and Weaving on the Northern Terminus

—

by

James A. Bacon
in

Really, can things get any worse?
Really, can things get any worse?

by James A. Bacon

The Charlottesville Bypass pile-up keeps getting bigger…

Last night some 300 Charlottesville-area residents packed a meeting at the Holiday Inn to view three design options for the southern terminus of the controversial, $244 million project. After public outcry over flaws in the preliminary design submitted by Skanska-Branch Joint Venture (SBJV) as part of its winning construction bid, the Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT) last night presented two new alternatives that avoided routing motorists through two traffic lights before accessing the bypass. While VDOT officials said it was too early to attach monetary figures to the new options, Albemarle County Supervisor Dennis Rooker estimated that a flyover alternative would cost an additional $30 million to $60 million. (See Sean Tubbs’ story in Charlottesville Tomorrow.)

Now it appears that there are unresolved problems with the design of the northern terminus at U.S. 29 North and Ashwood Boulevard. More than a half year after VDOT’s central office had accepted the SBJV bid to build the highway, VDOT employees in the Culpeper District office enumerated a number of issues in a technical memorandum dated Jan. 31, 2013, acquired by the Southern Environmental Law Center (SELC) through the Freedom of Information Act.

Key questions centered on the “weave” — a criss-crossing pattern traffic that can create congestion and safety issues — created by the SBJV design. From the memo:

  • “Has a weave analysis for motorists exiting the by-pass traveling northbound and merging across 29 northbound to reach the right turn lane at Ashwood Blvd been evaluated?”
  • “Has a weave analysis for motorists exiting the by-pass traveling southbound and merging across 29 southbound to reach the left turn lane at Polo Grounds Rd. been evaluated?”

Discussions between VDOT and SBJV ensued. In a letter dated March 19, 2013, also acquired through the Freedom of Information Act, SBJV Project Manager J.J. Moegling suggested that addressing the newly raised issues would cost $13,000 in additional design costs for a northern terminus traffic study, $45,000 for a lane configuration-weave analysis and $500,000 to modify the design of the intersection at Ashwood Boulevard and U.S. 29 — and that’s just counting the design and consulting fees.

Another key issue that had surfaced by that point was how to dovetail the bypass design, which terminated at the Ashwood Boulevard intersection, with a planned widening of U.S. 29 on the other side of the intersection.

Plans for the widening of U.S. 29 that are available now were not available to SBJV during the bid proposal, Moegling said. It is now apparent that SBJV’s proposed location for an extra northbound lane, submitted in its winning bid, does not match up with the proposed lane configuration of a wider U.S. 29 on the other side of Ashwood. Moreover, Moegling contended, “VDOT’s apparent plan [would] create a dangerous merge condition prior to the signalized intersection. … SBJV’s plan did not widen the existing road, but instead restriped the existing lanes to minimize safety hazards….”

In response to VDOT’s contention that the existing right-turn lane into Ashwood Boulevard must be retained, Moegling said that SBJV “is unable to locate language in the RFP that requires this.”

And another bone of contention: “VDOT commented that the weave condition from the US29 bypass to Ashwood Blvd. must be modeled and analyzed; we are unable to locate language in the RFP that requires this. We believe that this model would fail if performed. It is our opinion that the entire intersection would have to be reconfigured in some fashion for this weave to be successful, possibly including an elevated section through the intersection.”

“As you can see,” wrote Moegling, “there are a number of outstanding issues and direction that we need from your office to move forward. … We believe that the order of magnitude to move forward with many of these design initiatives totals in the vicinity of Five Hundred Sixty Thousands Dollars and 00/100 ($565,000).” That number he added, was the direct design cost only and “does not include any markups or associated construction cost as a result of these changes.”

Bacon’s bottom line: Wow. Thirty to sixty million dollars in design changes for the southern terminus. Now potentially millions of dollars more to build an elevated lane at the Ashwood intersection? Holy smokes! This is what you get when you ram a project through the approval process. VDOT did not create this mess, by the way. Mid-level VDOT employees raised red flags throughout the entire process and their concerns were brushed aside. The McDonnell administration owns this fiasco, and VDOT planners and engineers are stuck with the job of making it work.

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34 responses to “Bobbing and Weaving on the Northern Terminus”

  1. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    Rammed through the approval process? Some of the rights of way for this project were purchased 20 years ago! I think that was during the Wilder Administration.

    Yes, VDOT did a wonderful job. After 20 years they still don’t have a workable design.

    The only thing McDonnell and Connaughton did was kick the useless Richmond bureaucrats in the ass and get them to move forward on a project over 20 years in the making.

    1. James A. Bacon Avatar
      James A. Bacon

      To refresh Don’s memory as to the true facts of the case, I would refer him to “In the Dark,,” an article I wrote a year-and-a-half ago. No one at VDOT, in the McDonnell administration or anywhere else has disputed one word.

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        Close your eyes, take a deep breath and try to think back to the long lost days of yesteryear – before Bob McDonnell became governor.

        The original proposal for the Charlottesville Bypass was made in 1979 – while I was still an undergraduate student at UVA. I am 54 years old now.

        Engineering and environmental work began in 1984 (the start of Ronald Reagan’s second term). Chuck Robb was Governor of Virginia.

        The location for the road was approved by the CTB in 1990. The year the US invaded Panama and the year that East and West Germany agreed to reunite. Doug Wilder was Governor.

        Rights of way were purchased between 1991 and 2001. No further rights of way were purchased after 2001. Eight years before Bob McDonnell took office the last necessary right of way was procured.

        Now, Jim – given that Virginia’s state government is purpose built to allow secret tax breaks and credits to businesses run by the Richmond elite, our governor is limited to a single term. This allows the Imperial Clown Show in Richmond to operate without term limits, with the fifth worst gerrymandering, in the state with the least competitive legislative elections AND without having to worry about any effective oversight from a two term governor (as is allowed in all of the other 49 states).

        But you see the problems with this 34 year old project being caused by Bob McDonnell’s four years as governor?

        If VDOT can’t manage plans that transcend our single term governors then we should eliminate VDOT, shut it down and fire everybody in the organization.

        If our “politicians for life” in the Imperial Clown Show in Richmond can’t be held accountable for projects that have spanned 34 years then we need to change the constitution and impose single term limits on them too.

        This project is 34 years old. The last piece of eminent domain property required for the project was acquired 12 years ago. Ground has still not been broken.

        And you want to blame our one term governor?

        How dare McDonnell actually try to get this done after only 30 years of flopping around? That’s not the Richmond way! We need another 30 years of genteel debate over gin and tonics at the Country Club of Virginia.

        Also, have you heard – they let women into “the university” now!

        1. James A. Bacon Avatar
          James A. Bacon

          Don, you omit some crucial context from your chronology. The Warner and Kaine administrations all but abandoned the project as not cost-effective. It was kept on the books only through the lobbying of downstate legislators. While the project was in a state of suspended animation, Charlottesville-Albemarle citizens devised a credible and comprehensive alternative — Places29, which would have significantly improved mobility up and down U.S. 29, not just for people driving through town but locals, too. The McDonnell administration deep-sixed that plan, choosing to fund the bypass instead as a favor to downstate interests. When VDOT dusted off the old plans for a closer look, central office engineers realized it would cost far more money than anyone realized. Sean Connaughton downplayed the controversy making no mention of it when he presented his case to the CTB, which obediently voted for it. Connaughton may have thought he could finesse the problems by outsourcing the engineering, but he was wrong. Skanska-Branch’s lowball bid contained many flaws and, as revealed in this post, was based upon incomplete information. The project will cost far more than the $244 million set aside for it.

          You ask if I blame the one-term governor for this fiasco. This has nothing to do with one-term governors. It has everything to do with ramming a project through the approval process. Blaming it on the “imperial clown show” is nonsensical.

          1. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            “It was kept on the books only through the lobbying of downstate legislators.”.

            “Blaming it on the “imperial clown show” is nonsensical.”.

            Wow! Both statements in the same comment.

          2. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Also, did the Charlottesville – Albemerle Boards of Supervisors ever vote on this? If so, what was the vote?

          3. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Jim, you are a self-contradictory machine today.

            ” … he presented his case to the CTB, which obediently voted for it.”.

            So, the CTB is a rubber stamp organization rather than fulfilling its mission?

            “Appointed by the governor, the 17-member Commonwealth Transportation Board (CTB) establishes the administrative policies for Virginia’s transportation system.

            The CTB allocates highway funding to specific projects, locates routes and provides funding for airports, seaports and public transportation.”.

            By what authority does the apparently worthless CTB derive its power? Act of God? Presidential decree? Or … is it an organization brought into existence and maintained in existence by the Imperial Clown Show in Richmond?

            Let’s review:

            1. The project has been on the books for 34 years.
            2. The project was approved by the local board of supervisors.
            3. The project has been kept on the book for years by the state legislature.
            4. The state authority responsible for allocating highway funds endorses the project.

            Sean Connaughton was a senior in high school in Mineola, NY when this project was first proposed.

            If you think an observably hopeless project can be held on the books for 34 years and then approved by every appendage of the state and local government tasked with managing the state’s transportation investments, then …

            You must understand that the governance process is hopelessly broken.

            And who controls that governance process?

            The Imperial Clown Show in Richmond.

            Checkmate.

        2. larryg Avatar
          larryg

          DJ – do you believe the situation has changed since 1990?

          would you believe that updated information should be incorporated into any current proposal?

          would you think a “good” plan would use 23 year old data ?

          using 23 year old data to design a road is – in a word – dumb.

          1. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            I assume that the half-wits in Richmond are staying true to form and doing pretty much everything wrong.

            But – question #1: Should the bypass be built?

            The local board of supervisors says “yes” by a 4-2 vote (in 2011).
            The state legislature says “yes” since it kept the mouldering project on the books for over 3 decades.
            The appointed body chartered by the legislature and appointed by the governor say “yes”.
            The governor and the secretary of transportation say “yes”.

            But Jim Bacon says “no”.

            Is the project being bungled? Probably. It’s run by the state government, what would you expect?

            Will it get straightened out? Probably. These things usually do get straightened out.

            Jim Bacon wants to blame Sean Connaughton. If true, Mr. Connaughton must be almost magical. Just keeping the project alive while he was in high school, college, the merchant marines and working for the federal government is quite a trick.

  2. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    No.. this is classic VDOT when it comes to controversial roads (of which I admit most major ones are).

    basically they work internally on what they think is the best approach – then they work to sell it doing as many twists and turns as is necessary to move it forward – and that includes low-balling the costs and then later after the thing has gone too far to stop – then add back the stuff that should have been there to begin with.

    You do not build a bypass around Cville without fully configured, grade-separated interchanges at the termini and those kinds of interchanges typically run 40-50-60 million each… or more… they are not cheap.

    we are looking at reconfiguring ONE interchange on I-95 near Spotsylvania and it’s up in the 100-200 million range when you add in the merge lanes to Route 1.

    At some point in the Cville issue – when the full costs are better known – people are going to ask – if you could have used that kind of money to improve the existing 29 since some of the intersections could probably be vastly improved if they were grade separated.

    In a true – a legitimate NEPA study- you’d have at minimum – 3 options:

    1. – no-build
    2. – fix 29
    3. bypass 29

    and you’d end up with a matrix that includes costs and benefits and cons – of each.

    but VDOT – long, long before McDonnell and Connaughton came along – has a history of hating to do real NEPA studies and having a real public process.

    the shame is that the Cville MPO lacked the backbone to insist on a process that did serve their public – and when you do it wrong – you get opposition – and the opposition if it is the SELC – is going to make you rue the day you were so arrogant to believe you could side-step a true public process.

  3. salz Avatar
    salz

    http://www.readthehook.com/109630/barnums-beaming-greatest-bypass-earth

    the Southern Terminus been a bait and switch from the get-go and as I say in the above, “there’s another six miles for ‘new and improved’ P.T. Barnum moments.”

    Jim Rich, fired from the CTB for trying to talk fiscal sense over this highway, said last night that the attorney general should open an investigation into Secretary Connaughton’s lying to the CTB, knowing the Southern Terminus design was unworkable and ignoring VDOT engineers telling him that, when he assured CTB that everything was fine in requesting the last $197 million.

  4. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    I’m not clear on why the bypass has to be inside of Charlottesville.

    If you look at the bypasses around Lynchburg and other places south – they attempted to put termini beyond the current downtown area.

    it just seems like trying to backfit a full interchange in an existing urban area is fatally flawed.

    why has there not at least been an OPTION for an eastern bypass or for that matter a true western bypass?

    would the opponents of the current bypass be less opposed to something that better avoids the core of Charlottesville?

    1. Waldo Jaquith Avatar
      Waldo Jaquith

      why has there not at least been an OPTION for an eastern bypass or for that matter a true western bypass?

      The biggest problem with an eastern bypass is that the Southwest Mountain range is in the way, as you can see on this map. The best place to cross the Southwest Mountains is precisely where Interstate 64 and Route 250 already cross it. (That, of course, is not a coincidence.) North of there, you’ve got to go clear up to Orange County, following Route 33, and if you follow that out, then it basically drops people off in the middle of nowhere; getting back to the south of Charlottesville again requires either a huge, huge loop or cutting through some of the most valuable property in Virginia—and, indeed, the U.S.—in Keswick, along the eastern edge of the Southwest Mountains.

      On a non-terrain map, without property values marked, an eastern bypass looks easy. In reality, the obstacles of geography, land values, and the political clout of the residents are each deal-breakers on their own; collectively it makes the proposal laughable.

      1. larryg Avatar
        larryg

        well explained – thanks Waldo!

        and thanks for the map of Cville – I though the city was bigger than it really is and had no idea that Albemarle is, in fact just as extension of the city – but unde different management!

  5. salz Avatar
    salz

    Larry and DJ:

    1) The right-of-way purchase of about $47 million for the so-called bypass can be sold back. None of it, however, is “inside” Charlottesville. All is in Albemarle County.
    2) The entire Places29 projects which include overpasses at Rio and Hydraulic Roads cost about $169 million. In the early 1990s, VDOT contracted with UVA, Albemarle, and Charlottesville to build those overpasses as the FIRST projects because they produced the most bang for the transportation bucks. VDOT has been clear. Spending $80 million in overpasses improves 29N level of service from an F to a B and solves more than 3/4 of all accidents but building the bypass, for $244 million before change orders, leaves 29N an F and has almost no effect on safety. Hence, the LAST project, according to the original 3-party sequencing agreement, was to be the bypass and ONLY if the other projects hadn’t succeeded and there was money available.
    3) There are other potential routes BUT they require trucks to drive east or west from the intersection of 29 and I-64 on I-64 and, therefore, all but eliminated the possibility that a true bypass would actually be used by the truckers. Once the state bought any ROW for this long-future “bypass”, it was stuck on that path and the other route options fell by the wayside.
    4) Several times but most specifically in a $1.5 million 2009 study VDOT went back and concluded that “the Western Bypass is no longer an effective option to serve corridor-wide trips”– its mandated purpose.
    5) Our area, Albemarle County spent five years addressing and planning the issues along 29N and, unanimously, the six superviors agreed that Places 29 projects (the overpasses, expanding, building another bridge over Rivanna, etc) were the best approach. This is what our comprehensive plan says about the bypass: “The (Bypass) project as designed does not meet community or regional needs, and has been determined too costly for the transportation benefits to be gained. The transportation goals of the Bypass can be more effectively realized with improvements to the existing Route 29 corridor.”

    The Bottom Line (not just Jim Bacon’s but any thinking person’s) is that politics, to get this far on this project after all of the above, has totally trumped rational planning. I go a step further: There is much more corruption smoke here than in the Star Scientific story.

    We, the taxpayers of Charlottesville — and should be ALL of the taxpayers in Virginia and, indeed the U.S. because Virginia expects FHWA to pick up most of the costs, are angry. We’ve had enough of “tax and spend liberals” and are damn sure sick of these “borrow and waste conservatives.”

    Please DJ and Larry, ya’ll call/email/mail your delegates and senators and say, “We should look into getting some of that wasted money down in Charlottesville before it disappears into a rabbit hole.”

    1. larryg Avatar
      larryg

      good comprehensive answers, than you.

      two questions:

      1. i thought the purpose of the bypass was to allow traffic from outside Cville to traverse around Cville

      this makes it sound like the “bypass” has to be in the city… true?

      2.- did you ever address an Eastern Bypass

    2. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      http://cvilletomorrow.typepad.com/charlottesville_tomorrow_/2011/11/county-bypass.html

      “I am appalled that $100 million of eminent domain has gone on or is as we speak is going on.”.

      Cynthia Neff.

    3. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      I don’t care if the road gets built or not. However, I think the local board of supervisors voted to “go ahead” with the bypass, no? What would you and Jim Bacon suggest that McDonnell do? Declare that the board of supervisors doesn’t really represent the people who elected them?

      http://cvilletomorrow.typepad.com/charlottesville_tomorrow_/2011/06/western-bypass-revival.html

      Sounds like the duly elected officials voted 4-2 to proceed with the bypass.

      If they’ve changed their minds then they should vote again. But until they do … the shrillness of Jim Bacon’s whining does not cancel the votes of the people elected to represent the people in the area.

      1. James A. Bacon Avatar
        James A. Bacon

        I don’t have the energy to recite the local politics of this project. Maybe Salz will fill in.

      2. larryg Avatar
        larryg

        they did vote to go ahead without having an updated NEPA or requiring an updated NEPA.

        That’s a disservice to the folks they represent and to other taxpayers since 23 years had passed since the original one was done.

        A lot of land-use changes can happen in 23 years.

        the people will have to decide if they want to re-elect these guys but the problem in Va is that BOS have 4 years to do whatever they wish whether it represents the voters or not. That’s 2 years more than a Congressman or a House of Delegates guy.

        Va has no real way to recall local elected officials nor to initiate referenda that would assert citizens wishes despite what BOS vote for when the BOS vote is not representative of citizens.

        the points that the opponents bring up – are serious flaws in the NEPA process and what’s going to happen is that either FHWA is going to make them go back and do a supplemental – or it will go to court where there’s a good chance the judge will make them do a Supplemental.

        This is what played out in Fredericksburg a few years back when VDOT refused to do the NEPA right and 3 other Federal agencies objected -VDOT ultimately lost… and the project died.

        there’s a pretty good chance the bypass is not going to make it either.

  6. salz Avatar
    salz

    D.J. In a midnight, off-agenda, against-rules vote, one supervisor who was under investigation and had a week earlier spoken extensively about why the bypass was a bad project, changed his vote. That was the only time that four supervisors voted for this highway. As you might expect, that supervisor’s campaign finance issues seem to have disappeared.

    All six supervisors voted unanimously for the Places29 project which, again, provides more congestion relief, taking the existing F level of Service to a B which the bypass does not do and decreasing the number of accidents by almost 80 percent.

    As a Virginia taxpayer, as a U.S. taxpayeer, D.J., aren’t you concerned over the waste of supposedly OUR money for political purposes?

    Larry, the “bypass” is in this case a semantic term. Above it’s northern terminus are two large and fast-growing neighborhoods and the largest shopping mall in the area. VDOT says there are between 49,000 and 51,000 vehicles daily at the key intersection along 29N and 10 percent of them are passing through. Moving that 10 percent will NOT change the overall problem — again the LOS stays an F — becasue the other 45,000 vehicles daily still must stay on 29N as they are local.

    As every single study illustrates, building a new highway does NOT decrease congestion. Indeed, it induces more traffic and hence more congestion. The Commission on the Future of Transportation in Vriginia called it a “futile exercise” to attempt to build your way out of congestion because you always make it worse. The rule of thumb is that a 10 percent increase in capacity leads to an immediate four percent increase in traffic which climbs to 10 percent — the entire new capicity — in a few, usually five, years. And every study also illustrates that the roadways come first, not the population. Since the oil embargoes of the 1970s, America has increased VMT four times population growth.

    Two areas where vehicles will come from if this bypass is built: One, it’s designed purpose is to create jobs downstate where with alleged faster access to NYC markets, manufacturers will build plants. Since even if the Southern Terminus is returned to flyovers at alnother $50 million or so, the “bypass” will only save 66 seconds (VDOT), I don’t find that likely but that might generate some trucks.

    In addition, the job of the 18-wheel driver is to know the most direct route and every alternative. VDOT tells us that I-81, the NAFTA highway, where 33 percent of the traffic is 18-wheelers, jams up daily. Around Roanoke, it carries 74,000 vehicles a day though it was designed for 22,000. When those truckers slow on I-81, some of them will cut over at U.S. 460 and some will cut over at I-64 to trim 100 or so miles off the trip into D.C. and Baltimore.

    Perversely, a highway which is being sold locally as congestion relief will cause a huge jam up at the entrance to the two neighborhoods. At that time, people will be demanding the “bypass” extend further (and actually bypass) which the Commission on the Future of Transportation in Virginia calls the “merry go round” and taxpayers will be on the hook for another $145 million (bypass proponents figures).

    Building the overpasses, as VDOT rationally sequenced first, cost about $80 million and doesn’t induce truckers from I-81 because no one semantically is calling the overpasses a “bypass.”

    1. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      This is quite a conspiracy theory. The BoS, the CTB, the Secretary of Transportation, the governor and “downstate legislators” have all conspired to keep an obviously idiotic project moving ahead. I guess the courts are in on this conspiracy too since nobody has successfully challenged the midnight / against the rules vote.

      Even if one supervisor changed his vote there were three other supervisors who voted to keep the project moving forward.

      To an outsider it sounds pretty far fetched.

      May I assume that the omnipresent, evil, invisible “developers” are behind this 34 year old deception?

      I believe in local autonomy with minimal interference from Richmond. The BoS represents the local population and they voted to go ahead. Many well funded organizations (like the SELC) oppose the project but they haven’t been able to get a court to stop it.

      One supervisor (Boyd) was re-elected last November. My understanding is that Boyd was an ardent supporter of the bypass while his opponent was an ardent opponent.

      Rodney Thomas and Duane Snow are up for re-election this November. Thomas has been running on a platform that highlights his role in resurrecting the bypass project.

      If the community is overwhelmingly opposed to this obviously bad project, why did Mr. Boyd get re-elected?

      Do you predict that Mr. Thomas and Mr. Snow will both be thrown out of office? If they are thrown out then I suppose the BoS could vote again on the bypass. However, I am guessing they will be re-elected just like Mr. Boyd was re-elected.

      My bet is that the plan has some real issues. However, I’d also bet that the majority of residents are in favor of the plan. That doesn’t necessarily make it a good plan but it does reflect the will of the people.

      1. salz Avatar
        salz

        Mr. Rippert:

        1) Yes, I predict that both Mr. Snow and Mr. Thomas will be thrown out. Why? In May of last year — after Mr. Snow was quoted in the local newspaper supporting VDOT holding a public hearing on the bypass — both these “gentlemen” voted against asking VDOT to hold a public hearing. There were 16 speakers about a bypass public hearing. 15 of them said “we want a public hearing.” There were 70 emails going to the BOS on this vote and ALL 70 — every single one — wanted a public hearing. There was a group of 30-50 placard-waving elderly from the local retirement home requestiing a public hearing.

        Whatever it was that caused Mr. Thomas and Mr. Snow to vote against such overwhelming public sentiment will not protect them from voters who know they are not being heard.

        2) Over 20 years, 91 percent of all public comment on this bypass has been against it. In the latest evaluation, 3,150 out of 3,200 comments said “no bypass” or “we want more information.”

        3) There has been one survey which indicated locals were in support, by 69 percent, but that question was worded as if there was no alternative. In the same survey, the same percentile — 69 percent — said, basically, “isn’t there a better way?”

        4) And there is. It’s called Places 29, a collection of projects which VDOT says will actually address congestion and improve safety. The lynchpin of Places29 are two overpasses on existing U.S. 29 If JUST they are built, VDOT reports, the road’s level of service will go from an F to a B and 3/4+ of all accidents on 29N will halt. Their price tag? $80 million. Building the “bypass” costs $300 million and U.S. 29N stays an F level of service.

        5) County supervisors approved Places 29 unanimously just five months before, out of no=where, the bypass is revived in the after-hours, off-agenda, against-rules vote.

        6) You seem to think, Mr. Rippert, that this is just business as usual. If it is, we — as in America — are doomed. Maybe you noticed that Uncle Sam is almost $17 trillion in debt? Maybe you noticed that the atmosphere now has 400 ppm carbon dioxide in it? Maybe you noticed that our grandmothers alsways said “Waste not, want not.”

        7) As the Taxpayers for Common Sense call the Western “Bypass” (which does NOT bypass two huge growing neighborhoods) one of the eight worst projects in the nation, this is all about “wasting dollars” to benefit only a couple of people with political pull.

        8) But, please, Mr. Rippert, don’t trust me, don’t trust TCS, don’t trust Jim Bacon, don’t trust fired CTB member Jim Rich, come on down and find out for yourself. I’ll be glad to let you use my extra room (with separate bath) while you do the research yourself.

        1. salz Avatar
          salz

          And, Mr. Rippert, since you don’t trust Mr. Bacon’s research, perhaps some other light reading might help you have some understanding befre — hopefully — you come down to Cville. (Or across to Cville).

          Please pay particular attention to Jim Rich’s piece:

          http://www.readthehook.com/109094/road-nowhere-western-bypass-must-be-stopped

          Or Erich Zimmerman’s piece from the TCS.
          http://www.taxpayer.net/library/article/charlottesville-bypass-not-a-worthy-federal-investment

          http://www.readthehook.com/109630/barnums-beaming-greatest-bypass-earth,
          http://thinkinghighways.com/publications/issue/?issue=7249&view=true (P. 52-56)
          http://hamptonroads.com/2013/05/making-mess-road-project
          http://www.crozetgazette.com/2013/05/to-the-editor-bypass-boondoggle/
          http://www.styleweekly.com/richmond/bypassing-sense/Content?oid=1832475
          https://www.readthehook.com/103879/new-study-bypass-use-greer-kids-guinea-pigs

  7. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    Saltz – Eastern Route looked at?

  8. salz Avatar
    salz

    And I’m sorry, Larry. An Eastern bypass perhaps makes more sense, if you exclude the induced traffic that all new highways bring. Truckers will not be enticed to come west from I-95 because there are no population centers north or south of Cville. In addition, the major physical barrier to construction costs — the Rivanna River — does not have to be crossed on an Eastern Bypass.

    But there is no downstate loudmouth named steve Newman convincing hapless constituents that “bypassing” Charlottesville will solve their lack of manufacturing jobs to the south east of Charlottesville. Newman, of course, is chair of the senate transport committee.

    The Eastern Bypass is still on the books but, as this “bypass” fight illustrates convincingly, only political highways can find funding in Virginia today.

  9. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    oh and another dumb question – did the city council have a position and why did the BOS vote trump the city ?

  10. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    when I say “east”, I mean east of the river…. from the I-65/250 interchange – north to 29 north of Cville… it would seem to avoid much of the issues in trying to more closely parallel rt 29.

  11. salz Avatar
    salz

    Again, Larry, the “bypass” route is entirely in Albemarle County. The city council who are opposed to this project have no official dog in the fight. See Dillon Rule.

    yes, that’s the Eastern Bypass (or Connector) BUT to get to it from U.S. 29 in the south, a truck would have to drive east on I-64 for at least 10 miles and then another 10 miles northwest back to 29 again. Because this is very unlikely, there is no downstate enthusiasm/money/power/corruption pushing for the Eastern Connector. Neither is there pressure from Richmond because the rail “Heartland Corridor” (paid for by Virginia taxpayers) is already taking thousands of trucks off I-64. (The Rail Enhancement Act is a very interesting program by the way). There is little “need” for faster driving from Richmond towards the northwest when trucks are declining because the REA is double-stacking trucks at the port in Norfolk onto rail and then downloading them in Columbus, OH and other Mid-West communities. Since most traffic on 29N are heading to D.C., Boston, etc. an Eastern Connector offers virtually nothing (similar to Western “Bypass” but money and rotten politics and perhaps corruption are pushing the Western Bypass.)

    Please look at the map, notice that 29N slants significantly northeast and I think that will become clear, Larryg.

    Still, the point that EVERYONE in Virginia should note is that politics and big money are trying to force taxpayers to pay three times as much money for the so-called Western “Bypass” than an already-approved project which does more for congestion and more for safety. Tell your delegates and your senators to ASK about the wasted money down in Charlottesville.

  12. larryg Avatar
    larryg

    Saltz – when I look at a map, it appears that at least some of the bypass is actually in Charlottesville itself.

    no?

    I see the issue on the Eastern side… probably too far even if they come north just east of the River -up Rt20 then northwest.

    for the bigger picture – I don’t dispute anything you say about how the project has been conducted. This is classic VDOT no matter who the Gov or head VDOT guy is… this is the way they do business on most roads like this.

    this is why I support a full and complete NEPA to look at all reasonable options (usually 3-5) and to show the costs, the benefits and the advantages, disadvantages.

    I also do subscribe to the idea of “induced” traffic – in terms of what is known as “latent demand” which basically means if you build more roads more people will use them more often rather than stay off of them at the busiest times unless they have no choice. That’s the problem in NoVa. As soon as you build more roads – they are almost instantly engulfed in the same rush hour traffic that other roads have.

    but my understanding was that the basic premise of this road was to give north/south travellers who were not local – the opportunity to get through Charlottesville without getting bogged down in local traffic, especially at rush hour.

    if that was the sole premise for this road – and nothing else – and it had only interchanges at the termini – would you still be opposed and if so, why?

    1. Waldo Jaquith Avatar
      Waldo Jaquith

      when I look at a map, it appears that at least some of the bypass is actually in Charlottesville itself.

      Nope. It’s entirely in Albemarle County. This map demonstrates—it doesn’t even get close.

  13. salz Avatar
    salz

    I would still be opposed due to:
    1) the cost. It’s way too expensive for any alleged benefits. Again, only one ROI and, again, it’s spending $300 million for $8 million in benefits. Even if the benefit aspects are 100 percent off, it’s still $300 million for $16 million in benefits.
    2) it will induce new traffic (whehter you call it latent demand or not) to come to Cville area ESPECIALLY new 18-wheelers.
    3) the problem on 29N (and it’s really not much of a problem) is local traffic. A bypass does absolutely nothing for local traffic.
    4) Our area has been through this and through this and through this. Every time rational thinking prevails but the political money never stops. I personally am a fiscal conservative who has voted more for Republicans over the years (in contested slots on the ballot) and right now I can’t ever imagine voting GOP again for any office.
    5) There are other prime concerns that I rarely talk about but: The EPA today suggests that all schools within a half mile of a major highway be analyzed to see what we’re doing to children’s lungs but Virginia is poised to build a new highway within a quarter mile of six schools WHICH paves over (or requires moving) historic sites and cemeteries AND passes over the local water supply, dumping for sure dirt and gravel into it during construciton and chancing ammonia, etc. after construction.

    I’m gonna stop now, but please, Larry contact your delegates, your senators, and say “stop that waste in Cville.” I can’t spend any more time answering questions. I’m sorry.

    https://www.readthehook.com/109630/barnums-beaming-greatest-bypass-earth

    http://hamptonroads.com/2013/05/making-mess-road-project

    1. larryg Avatar
      larryg

      Thanks Sallz, I think I’ve got the essence …

      the basic issue in Charlottesville is not unique.

      It’s the same basic issue in NoVa and many other places where a road originally built to “connect” the state – becomes engulfed and co-opted by the local community.

      It’s kind of a dumb thing that we seem to do and that is we designate US and State highways as one that will “connect” the state – i.e. highways of statewide significance.

      think about what the phrase means.

      so we build these roads – and they are significant roads in terms of design and capability especially compared to local 600 series, “secondary roads”.

      But then the locality usually views such roads as idea venues for commercial development.

      from that point on – it’s a contest between VDOT – to try to preserve the integrity of the road to serve it’s original intended purpose and the goals of the locality to optimize commercial growth and the taxes that accrue from it.

      It happened all across the state – in Lynchburg, in NoVa … along Route 1 all the way through Virginia.

      the essence of the issue is who does Rt 29 belong to – the locality (like Charlottesville or Lynchburg or name-your-town… – or to the citizens of Virginia who want to get from point a to point b?

      It’s easy to point at Cville until one realizes just how much money was spent to “bypass” Lynchburg – not once – but twice or what happened to US 29 in Northern Va… (same thing that happened in Cville) or for that matter Routes, 17, 3 and 1 in Fredericksburg.

      or when you get right down to it – what happened to I-95 around the Washington area – a road originally designed to serve the East Coast that now is considered to belong to the Washington Area – and to hell with East Coast traveler needs.

      Now if you think this is just a Virginia “problem”, I invite you to take a good look at the totality of the original US 29:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_29

      think about this. you’re gonna go from Cville to Maryland near the Pennsylvania on Rt 29 or south to Pensacola Florida on US 29.

      really? after all, it’s a US-signed highway that had a US multi-state purpose when the Feds first plunked down money to build it.

      Now … it’s an artifact, a vestige …. but why? it was originally designed to connect Va to Florida.. right?

      so what happened?

      what happened to US 29 between here and Florida is basically what happend to US 29 in Charlottesville.

      what should be done now?

  14. salz Avatar
    salz

    Now, we should build the overpasses at the U.S. 29 intersection with Rio and Hydraulic Roads for one-third the cost and much more congestion/safety relief.

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