Bills Reversing Green New Deal Advance, Stutter

The first 176 offshore wind turbines and transmission lines Dominion Energy has applied to build off Virginia Beach for a cost (expect increases) of $10 billion.

by Steve Haner

“To say that an electric stove is as good as a gas one is misunderstanding the art of cooking.”

That line was used by a restaurant industry lobbyist February 3 in a House of Delegates committee debate on a bill seeking to protect the use of natural gas in Virginia homes and businesses. He later claimed it originated with a chef in San Francisco, where local governments have been passing ordinances to ban gas use.

The bill, House Bill 1257, then went on to fail, with all nine Democrats on the House Commerce and Energy Committee voting against it. All the Republicans present voted for it, but three were out of the room and the vote tied 9-9. The same committee may take the bill up again Tuesday for another effort at passage.

That was the first of three votes Thursday on efforts to roll back the Virginia Clean Economy Act and related measures approved during the two years of Democratic hegemony. The Democrats’ package of legislation has the ultimate goal of ending use of fossil fuels pretty much anywhere in the Virginia economy in the next 25 years. Most voters remain unaware.

The same meeting where the right to natural gas bill could return should include two other bills which were approved on party-line votes in subcommittee Thursday night. The subcommittee voted 6-4 for House Bill 118 and House Bill 73, with opponents claiming they would mean the end of plans to build hundreds of giant generation turbines off the shore of Virginia Beach.

What they actually would do is give the regulatory State Corporation Commission authority to decide whether such a wind farm is reasonable, prudent and really in the public interest. Under current law the SCC has already been told up to 3,000 megawatts of offshore wind is in the public interest and must be approved. Apparently without the legislative leg up, the project will not pass muster.

The maddening pattern of recent years continues, despite the recent election.  Republicans, seemingly more than in previous years, are happy to vote to strengthen SCC oversight on generation decisions. Tuesday night, complaints from the Dominion Energy Virginia lobbyists did not translate into a single nay vote from a Republican.

Democrats, however, remain quite comfortable with a hamstrung SCC on questions of how Virginia utilities should be producing energy. They instead put in bills to restore SCC authority over utility rates, profits and refunds. On those bills, the Republicans line up behind the utility lobbyists and vote the bills down, leaving the SCC hamstrung. It happened again this week to Delegate Sally Hudson, D-Charlottesville, with House Bill 1288.  Suddenly for many Republicans the SCC could not be trusted.

Both sides claim they want the SCC to do the job the Virginia Constitution intended, making utility decisions free from politics, lobbyist dinners and campaign contributions. Both sides vote over and over to do the opposite. Consumers lose and monopoly utilities win every time with their divide and conquer tactics.

New Gov. Glenn Youngkin (R) called for a course change but has not visibly entered the fray on any of these bills on either side. Democrats still control the Virginia Senate 21-19 and have given themselves 12 of the 15 seats on its Commerce and Labor Committee. All observers expect that committee to crush all three of these bills later in the session.

House Bill 118 has been billed as the straight repeal of the 2020 VCEA, including that section of the code that authorized the state to join the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative and begin to collect a carbon tax on Dominion’s monthly bills.  Youngkin is seeking to repeal VCEA, through several different avenues.

Several of the national advocacy groups that fight back against the climate catastrophe narrative have joined the effort to pass House Bill 118. Many of their offices and leaders are in Northern Virginia. Last night speakers for the bill included representatives of the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow (CFACT) and the CO2 Coalition, active defenders of the vital atmospheric gas that has become the main villain in the climate disaster play.

Most focused their effort on providing written comments through the portal the legislature created as a pandemic measure, although it is not clear legislators really see that input. And most focused on the debate over climate change and the impacts, seeking to undermine VCEA as unnecessary because there is no threat.

Others, however, dove into the details of the future capital plan, the integrated resource plan that Dominion claims will implement the VCEA in the 2030s and 40s. As it now stands, and has been previously discussed (here and here), the current proposal is far too light on expensive energy storage. When the wind and sun are unavailable, Virginia will be challenged under this plan. (And even when they are both at peak, we’ll be paying far, far more.)

The national activists watched House Bill 118 get endorsed, then left the room before House Bill 73 came up. That bill is narrowly focused on restoring SCC oversight, leaving alone many elements of the 2020 VCEA. But under that bill, if passed, even the pending Dominion wind application would face the traditional “reasonable, prudent and in the public interest” tests.

Nay votes on House Bill 73 (and plenty are coming — perhaps some from Republicans) will be far harder to explain at the next election. It should be a major theme in the next round of elections, along with any foolish nay votes on House Bill 1257, which are votes to allow local governments to ban natural gas.


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72 responses to “Bills Reversing Green New Deal Advance, Stutter”

  1. LarrytheG Avatar

    Looks like the GOP has to win the Senate if they really want legislation to go their way. Virtually all of Youngkin bills have gone down and some of them with GOP against them also!

    how many years before the Va Senate is up for election?

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Next Senate election (and House, too) in 2023. I expect the lawsuit pushing for earlier elections to fail. I do think some Senate D’s will be under some pressure to preserve the natural gas option from their constituents, if they know. Not letting them know is why the RTD, VA Mercury, and the rest of the Climate Catastrophe Media refuse to cover most of this. I’m breaking news 20 hours after the meeting.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        The Senate was never part of the lawsuit, correct?

        1. Stephen Haner Avatar
          Stephen Haner

          I think so. With their four year terms, there was no expectation that the new census would be reflected until the first vote after the census. The House however ran after the census in old districts.

          Dear readers of the earlier post. Yikes, it was all Thursday, not Tuesday! Sloppy…

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Yes, just read the Goldman v. Northam documents. Just the House of Delegates. Why do you think they don’t force a 2022 election?

      2. LarrytheG Avatar

        RTD is covering all of Youngkins fails… right?
        😉

        1. Stephen Haner Avatar
          Stephen Haner

          Front page usually! You see fails, I see entanglements. 🙂

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            many articles, many pages! “entanglements” ? HA !
            okay… can ya’ll at least “cover” it in BR?

            geeze…

  2. “To say that an electric stove is as good as a gas one is misunderstanding the art of cooking.”

    As someone who has had to cook on an electric stove for the last 30 years or so I heartily agree with this statement.

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      Go with propane – not a greenhouse gas…

      1. I like propane.

        In hindsight, we should converted to propane at our last house – we started out thinking we wouldn’t be in that house very long but ended up living there 22 years.

        We’re not planning on being in our current house long enough to make it worth the conversion costs.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          The only thing I know about gas stovetops is that the two hottest places on a teakettle on a gas stove are the bottom and the handle! You have to remember not to use full flame with a teakettle, or use a potholder.

        2. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          I have propane at my house but ONLY for two things: A gas cooktop and a gas fireplace. Just a 100 gallon tank next to the house and I haven’t had it refilled since 2017..

          Heating is with a heatpump. Propane is not cost effective for heating. Once it gets beyond about $3.60 a gallon, it’s actually cheaper to use electric resistance heating, assuming 12 cents/kwh. And a heatpump will usually deliver a COP between 2 and 3 (electric resistance heating has a COP of 1) at most temperatures encountered in this part of the country in winter.

        3. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Propane is forever… well, long, long time.
          Methane and ethane molecules enter the atmosphere and in 8 years and 8 months, respectively, begin to decompose to CO2 and water. Propane and butane will not. Guess they just get absorbed into the ground, oceans, plants, us, and such, ’cause they’re heavy and stable. But, can’t imagine leaked propane/butane constitutes much of a hazard to life, climate, or the planet… except in small spaces like kitchens and furnance rooms.

      2. how_it_works Avatar
        how_it_works

        Propane has some dangers that natural gas does not…

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzdnUZReoLM&ab_channel=USCSB

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          It’s worse. It concentrates in low spaces. Methane rises and escapes. Much safer as that goes.

      3. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        But they are after that, too! Huh, methane not a GHG? You do understand that absent GHG we’d all be fried by the sun every day and freeze down to the low kelvin’s every night, right? GHG = Life

        In response to your other query, I don’t think the courts will see that much harm in waiting from Nov 22 to 23 to hold elections in the new districts.

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          propane is not the same as methane and it (unlike methane) is not considered a GHG. Still a fossil fuel that will release CO2 (which is a GHG) when burned but the propane itself is not. The biggest issue with natural gas (methane) stoves is the leakage of methane – even when off.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            If your stove is leaking methane you’ve got a problem, but you’ll be dead before you notice it. You’ve either succumb to the lack of O2 or you’ll have exploded.

            The NG combustion equation results in the same byproducts as propane (since they are chemically related, propane is derived from NG).

            Propane Combustion EQ:

            2 C3H8 + 9 O2 → 4 CO2 + 2 CO + 8 H2O + Heat.

            NG Combustion EQ:
            CH4[g] + 2 O2[g] -> CO2[g] + 2 H2O[g] + energy

            Show us on the dummy where the bad Chemistry teacher touched you.

          2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            My stove is not leaking methane, Sport.

          3. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Where did I say it was dumbas$?

          4. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            You said: “ If your stove is leaking methane you’ve got a problem…”. I thought you should know that my oven is not leaking methane so pretty much everything else you have to say is unimportant (well more unimportant than normal that is)…

          5. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            I get reading is hard for someone of your limited mental capacity, but that was a general statement. It wasn’t directed at you.

            So what exactly does DNR holdings do besides launder moeny for you and Tina?

          6. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I think your third martini is speaking there, Slick…

          7. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Eric the half a troll 11 minutes ago
            I think your third martini is speaking there, Slick…”

            Naw, I think you’re twitter account and mouth writes checks you 4th point can’t cash. Enjoy the IRS.

          8. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Your synapses are definitely not firing quite right, Ace. Talk to you Monday morning… you best take a snooze now…

          9. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Again, enjoy the IRS. I hear tax fraud isn’t so bad if you please guilty Walt. Maybe you should ask Trump?

            Maybe Tina shouldn’t have quit her job, someone needs to pay your legal bills. Lord knows you don’t have a real job, outside of defrauding the government.

          10. Merchantseamen Avatar
            Merchantseamen

            Matt remember there are a few “experts” in all known sciences and subjects on here. They jump up and down all combustion generates CO and CO2. Most likely you are aware you minimize by fuel air ratio and thorough mixing of same for full and complete combustion. With new tech this getting better and better. I had to do with pneumatics and hand eye adjustments to achieve. This was under all kind of loads. For all the experts on here tell them the first Diesels ran on peanut or vegetable oil.

          11. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Free electrons?

          12. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            But my refrigerator IS running… 😂 🤣😂

          13. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Depends on leak volume. Too small to localize with a ‘sniffer’ means it disperses into the house air. Methane goes up, propane down, and when the air handler comes on, the house overpressures, driving methane into the attic where it goes through the roofridge vents. Propane will be driven into the crawl, or between the slab and the walls. Not an ideal state, but it’s happening according to news reports.

            As for the case where the leak is big, explosions and asphyxiation is possible, and happen.

            So, what’s the issue?

          14. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            All correct, and just the notion that all gas appliances leak.

            I knew two indict who lost their lives when a methane pocket under their home combusted.

          15. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Two what? If they were in Pa., it may have had nothing to do with piped in gas. There’s a road not far from Harrisburg that’s hot from an underground fire. Stuff just leaks from the ground.

            Sniffers are a pain in the butt. They work way too well sometimes. Try using one to convince yourself of a leaking head gasket. You sniff the radiator and it goes off every time, even on the other car in the garage. “Oh great! They both leak. Or, maybe they don’t.”

          16. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Methane migration (especially in PA and WV) is a real thing. A ton of old orphaned wells in those basins that were never properly abandoned.

          17. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            It’s also possible for natural gas from a leak to migrate underground and get into a building that doesn’t even have natural gas service.

          18. LarrytheG Avatar

            e.g. like radon……and other….

          19. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Sniffers are real problematic when they are used used by fire investigators to “confirm” arson. As I told one of them on Quora, how do you know that sniffer which you used to “confirm” that gasoline was spilled on the carpet of the brand-new car wasn’t actually being set off by solvents used in the manufacture of the carpet?

            No response to that one.

          20. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Centralia is the result of a coal fire that is continuing to burn under the the town. It’s not the product of NG.

            They lived in Dubois in Clearfield County.

            If your car temps drops when you turn the heat on, you’ve got a leaky head gasket.

          21. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            That’s new to me. That’s definitely a thermostat problem. The best test is to run a static pressure and a dynamic pressurre test. It will show head gasket and cyclinder wall problems.

          22. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I think we know what the “issue” is…😉

          23. Merchantseamen Avatar
            Merchantseamen

            Fix the leak. Should not be there at all.

          24. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            “Even the question of whether the stove itself is leaking, or whether the stove’s connection to the gas line leaking, is something scientists can’t yet answer.

            “We weren’t able to pinpoint exactly where it’s coming from,” said Lebel of the methane, “but we could tell it’s coming somewhere from the appliance, or the gas line connecting to the wall.””

            https://www.fastcompany.com/90716674/your-gas-stove-is-leaking-methane-even-when-its-turned-off

            I would venture to guess that it’s far more likely that the leak is coming from field-installed connections.

            Do these California locations they did this study at enforce the requirement for a gas pipe pressure test?

          25. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            It’s really rather humorous when someone claims that their stove is leaking methane and they are still alive.

          26. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            At my dad’s house the contractor who was doing some work said he noticed a gas smell near the water heater, which was shut off because the house was vacant and being prepared for sale.

            I came over with a spray bottle of soapy water and found that the union for the water heater had a small leak. I never noticed a gas smell and I wonder how long it had been leaking. A little pipe dope fixed the problem. It was a VERY tiny leak, and I couldn’t smell it. It theoretically could have been leaking since the water heater was replaced several years ago.

            Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the contractor who replaced the water heater never bothered to leak check the fittings. If you’ve ever noticed, the blue collar trades in Virginia aren’t exactly anal-retentive about doing things right….

            EDIT: I shouldn’t just pick on the blue collar trades, plenty of white collar employees in Virginia with the same approach.

          27. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            As long as it was small enough it would’ve have caused a problem obviously, but if it gets large enough to concentrated enough that pilot light will be doing more than keeping the water hot.

          28. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            It just amazed me that the contractor could smell a leak that small. I sure couldn’t.

            The newer gas water heaters have a flame arrestor/shield around the pilot light, and a piezo ignitor switch to light it. Guessing this is to prevent ignition of fumes from gasoline and the like.

          29. Merchantseamen Avatar
            Merchantseamen

            They short cutting. It is standard practice after new install or maintenance. I find my people short cutting like that they are gone. Small leaks can turn into big leaks and people die.

          30. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Methane, CNG, is preferred by some boaters to propane, LPG, because a leak of CNG will not settle in the bilge. Instead, it rises to the cabin top.

          31. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            Where do get this nonsense. Here’s EIA’s comparison–https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=73&t=11–propane emits more CO2 that natural gas.

          32. LarrytheG Avatar

            bad link? can you repost a good one?

            As far as I know – most propane actually comes from natural gas – no?

          33. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            just go to the EIA website

          34. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Propane is a natural gas condensate. It is separated from methane (the “natural gas” supplied by public utilities and piped directly to homes). Propane is co-produced with methane and is separated from the methane through gas processing.

          35. LarrytheG Avatar

            what are the by-products to doing this?

          36. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            So as to not get sideways to our resident “expert”, I will just refer you to this wiki page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-gas_condensate.

          37. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I was pretty specific in what I said. Methane, as methane, is a greenhouse gas. It acts like CO2 in the atmosphere when released (uncombusted). “Methane is emitted during the production and transport of coal, natural gas, and oil. Methane emissions also result from livestock and other agricultural practices, land use and by the decay of organic waste in municipal solid waste landfills. Methane’s lifetime in the atmosphere is much shorter than carbon dioxide but methane is more efficient at trapping radiation than CO2. Pound for pound, the comparative impact of methane is 25 times greater than CO2 over a 100-year period.”

            https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases

            Propane (as propane) is not considered a greenhouse gas. If it is released it does not meaningfully contribute to trapping radiation like fugitive methane does. As I noted, propane is still a fossil fuel and does emit carbon upon combustion just like any hydrocarbon fuel does but propane itself is not a greenhouse gas. I referred to findings that natural gas stoves are leaking methane. From a greenhouse gas emission perspective, this would not be an issue with propane. CO2 emissions from combusting propane still would remain.

          38. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I was pretty specific in what I said. Methane, as methane, is a greenhouse gas. It acts like CO2 in the atmosphere when released (uncombusted). “Methane is emitted during the production and transport of coal, natural gas, and oil. Methane emissions also result from livestock and other agricultural practices, land use and by the decay of organic waste in municipal solid waste landfills. Methane’s lifetime in the atmosphere is much shorter than carbon dioxide but methane is more efficient at trapping radiation than CO2. Pound for pound, the comparative impact of methane is 25 times greater than CO2 over a 100-year period.”

            https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases

            Propane (as propane) is not considered a greenhouse gas. If it is released it does not meaningfully contribute to trapping radiation like fugitive methane does. As I noted, propane is still a fossil fuel and does emit carbon upon combustion just like any hydrocarbon fuel does but propane itself is not a greenhouse gas. I referred to findings that gas stoves are leaking methane. From a greenhouse gas emission perspective, this would not be an issue with propane. CO2 emissions from combusting propane still would remain.

            Edit: Perhaps this is the sentence that is throwing you:

            “Still a fossil fuel that will release CO2 (which is a GHG) when burned but the propane itself is not.”

            I mean that propane itself is not a GHG not that it does not release CO2 when burned – quite the contrary – I say propane is “still a fossil fuel that will release CO2…when burned…”.

          39. Merchantseamen Avatar
            Merchantseamen

            You better hope not.

        2. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Lighter than air versus heavier than, I suppose.

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      You’d have loved my grandmother’s stove in Brooklyn, wood.

  3. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Advance, stutter, and burst into flame as NG is wont to do.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      blasphemy! how dare you!

  4. tmtfairfax Avatar
    tmtfairfax

    So, when Dominion’s ho%^e-s&$t power grid fails, as it regularly does, people cannot have a backup generator for electricity? Our block has had 11 power outages since October 2020.

    The huge number of power outages after any significant storm shows that the United States is nowhere near ready to be an all-electric nation. And building solar or wind generation doesn’t fix this.

    And for those who argue for a distributed grid, who will fund it? Who will maintain it? Also, how are the many people who struggle paying their utilities bill also fund a distributed grid?

    1. how_it_works Avatar
      how_it_works

      Clearly, Virginians think that power outages are no big deal. Otherwise, Dominion would do a better job of preventing them.

      NOVEC does seem to do a very good job of preventing power outages, but being in Northern Virginia, I suspect that they have a lot more “come heres” on their payroll vs. the “Good Ole Boys” that Dominion does.

      The CEO of Dominion looks to me like he could be Ralph Northam’s 1st cousin. Maybe he is.

      1. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
        energyNOW_Fan

        My area w/ Dominion is extremely reliable. I guess due to underground lines or something not sure why. Yes if a car goes off the road rips out the transformer station we can have a short term issue. That’s it though. I guess I have a big Dominion transformer sub station nearby next to the Target, maybe that’s why we never lose it.

      2. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
        energyNOW_Fan

        My area w/ Dominion is extremely reliable. I guess due to underground lines or something not sure why. Yes if a car goes off the road rips out the transformer station we can have a short term issue. That’s it though. I guess I have a big Dominion transformer sub station nearby next to the Target, maybe that’s why we never lose it.

        1. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          Perhaps your area is where a Dominion executive lives.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar

      there is no way, we will stop using gas or fossil fuels 100% right now – that’s a reality.

      But that does not mean, we should not work to use other sources of electricity when we can and retain nat gas and other fossil to use when we must.

      It’s not now and never was an all or nothing proposition that the naysayers continue to assert.

      One key question not addressed by the pro-gas crowd is what happens once the easy frack gas is extracted and the cost to extract the harder to get gas goes up and the price of electricity skyrockets with a largely gas fired grid?

      It’s ignorant to be opposed to a viable fuel like wind/solar even if it can’t right now be relied on as a primary fuel. What if we had a grid that ran on wind/solar when it could and used gas when it couldn’t and we ended up using 60-70% less gas in the longer run?

  5. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
    energyNOW_Fan

    As far as natural gas cooking for stoves (and presumably propane) a number of California universities have been publishing papers saying the combustion by-products are toxic to homeowners and business employees. I think this issue is probably over-blown: if you start with the assumption of extreme toxicity of certain trace chemicals, it is then easy to calculate death and asthma rates based on the assumptions. However, since the issue is claimed to be a very serious health issue by various university groups, it would be good to study the potential health impacts to see if the claims have merit.

    1. how_it_works Avatar
      how_it_works

      ..and still they make vent-free natural gas and propane heaters…

  6. John Martin Avatar
    John Martin

    “hegemony” GFY

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