Bacon’s Latest Jeremiad: A Response

Years from now, in the midst of the worst financial meltdown ever, Jim Bacon must want to know that somewhere, somehow, a graduate student poring over old tomes came across his articles about the fiscal sky falling. You heard it here first!
Jim is right about a few things in his latest missive about America going broke. Inflation could indeed be a threat given all of the deficit spending that has been going on the both the Bush and Obama Administrations.
In the former, we ended up with huge bills for a war in Iraq based on faulty intelligence and then for panicky bailouts of huge banks and car companies. In the latter situation, the causes were the lack of effective regulation and the Bushies being asleep at the switch. Obama is struggling to deal with the resulting messes and he’s fair game for criticism about his effectiveness or lack of it so far.
Typical of conservatives, Jim ignores Bush and blames Obama. But there is another point. Bacon bases his article on economics columnist Robert Samuelson who notes some of the same thing that Bacon has noted — namely the danger of the increasing rate of debt as a part of GDP. But Jim claims Samuelson backs his claims but if you read Samuelson he does only to a point. He actually states that odds are against a wealthy state having to face a horrible downturn after being deprived of international or domestic credit to ease the debt burden. In other words, Bacon is only giving you part of Samuelson’s argument.
Second problem: Jim sees the bundle of yarn starting to get untwined with Japan. Maybe, but it’s a big maybe and Jim ignores recent history when Japan’s biggest problem with a decade-long slump was deflation, not inflation.
For those with nothing better to do, here’s part of a blog I did earlier this year for CBS Interactive:
Now it’s Japan’s turn and it is a story more of serious missteps rather than successes.

Most everyone knows that after decades of trend-setting growth, Japan badly stumbled in the late 1980s. The 1990s became the “Lost Decade” as Japan dealt with deflation, bank failures, recession and its ossified keiretsu economic structure that worked well in the 1960s and 1970s but had become badly outdated.

Its genesis involved a number of issues, including competing regulation by the Ministry of Finance and the Bank of Japan, ineffective financial liberalization, a real estate bubble, and a buying spree of foreign assets. What had been a low interest monetary policy came to a jolting halt when the Bank of Japan slammed on the brakes by raising interest rates in 1990.

That touched of a recession lasting lasted eight years, rendering worthless about half of all loans made by Japanese banks. Since many of those loans involved artificially high real estate and dodgy stock market plays, the economy was further whipsawed. Banks such as Hoikkaido Takushoku and Yamaichi Securities Company failed and two other big banks, Long Term Credit Bank and Nippon Credit were eventually nationalized.

Japanese officials tried some familiar remedies, such as creating its own version of a “bridge” or “bad” bank to soak up toxic assets. But the consensus is that Japan made a series of missteps that are themselves instructive:

Japanese officials took too long to understand and attempt to rescue their financial system.

The central bank took too long to address deflation issues.

A fiscal stimulus attempt was cut off in 1997 when taxes were hiked.

Japan took an entire decade — from 1988 to 1998 — to start cleaning up and recapitalize its banks.

Japanese officials waited until 2003, an incredibly long period, to force banks to submit to audits and identify bad debts.

Peter Galuszka



Share this article



ADVERTISEMENT

(comments below)



ADVERTISEMENT

(comments below)


Comments

83 responses to “Bacon’s Latest Jeremiad: A Response”

  1. Accurate Avatar

    Well Peter, if Jim is giving the conservative point of view, you've certainly given the liberal side. However, I do find the 'Blame Bush' game rather old. I guess this is your version of Fair and Balanced.

  2. I don't think it is liberal or conservative …. until the conservative side of the house – after 8 years of not a whimper under Bush and the Republicans suddenly get "religion" under Obama…

    and when confronted with this apparent double standard.. they then throw Bush under the bus.. saying essentially that they knew he was doing bad.. but were waiting for a new President to say so.

    We had 8 years of tax cuts, gutting regulations, fighting two wars and Medicare PartD off budget.

    When the whole thing turned into a flaming mess.. and the new guy showed up – the collective hand-wringing and mea-culpas began…

    the modern equivalent of the pitch fork brigade.. guns on the hips and signs declaring that "it's time to water the tree of liberty".

    The "Conservatives" eschew Bush publically (but not in their hearts) .. and their "ideas" consist of "me too" homilies spoken by the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Rove, Coulter, Malkin and the other cast that when assembled in one room would be dead ringers for the cast in the bar scene in Star Wars.

  3. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Peter, First of all, kudos for the Godzilla photo. I love it!

    However, I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from your commentary about Japan. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, we can see the mistakes the Japanese made? Because we know the mistakes they made, we won't repeat them? Or maybe the Japanese won't repeat them? Or something. Could you clarify?

    Don't get sidetracked on the Jim-blames-Obama angle. You're trying to convert this into a partisan issue when the problems we face transcend Rs and Ds. Bush ran up the deficit. Now Obama's running up the deficit. Who friggin' cares which one is more to blame than the other? They're both to blame!

    You're right, Samuelson did say that the odds were against a major nation state defaulting on its debts. I don't think he's given enough attention to the simultaneous increase in indebtedness of all major nations around the world (with the apparent exception of China, and that's only a temporary state of affairs). The U.S. can borrow as long as others are lending. Once everyone becomes a borrower, and there aren't any lenders left, you have a real problem — a systemic global problem.

    Samuelson is a bright guy. One day he will come around to my point of view!

  4. Groveton Avatar

    Part I – It's looking like a bad day to be a liberal in Virginia. In fact, it might be a bad day to be a liberal in the United States. We'll see how New Jersey goes. Naturally, Virginia's liberals spend sad days like today blaming Bush for pretty much everything. The fact that their superhero (Barack Obama) was elected a year ago doesn't phase them. All problems are because of Bush. Ho Hum (Yawn).

    However, rather than just blaming Bush for everything that is wrong in the world, everything that has ever gone wrong in the world and everything that will ever go wrong in the world (typical liberal dogma), Peter strikes out in a new direction – Japan. Peter wants us to remember what a difficult time the Japanese economy faced in the 1980s. But Peter seems to forget a little problem we had in the US at about the same time – the S&L Crisis. Let's review…

  5. Groveton Avatar

    Part II –

    The last real estate bubble occurred from about 1976 to 1981. US mortgage loans outstanding during that period increased from $700M to $1.5B. This bubble was created during the administration of Barack Obama's idealogical identical twin, Jimmy Carter.

    The S&L industry had been a pretty sleepy place to work until 1980. In 1980 the US Congress granted all thrifts the power to make consumer and commercial loans and to issue transaction (credit card accounts). Inexperienced in the ways of the competitive world, the thrifts forgot a little speech made by Jimmy Carter's personal "recession in a necktie" Paul Volker…

    On Oct. 6, 1979 Paul Volker gave a speech declaring that he would raise interest rates in an attempt to cure the US of Libeconomitis – otherwise known as stagflation. This complete mental misfire solved nothing. However, it did raise the short term cost of funding above the long term return from the S&L portfolios. Paul Volker is almost 6'10" tall. He occupies the largest empty suit ever seen in American politics. The fact that this empty suit can once again be seen standing behind Jimmy Carter's "twin brother from a different mother" (Obama) should be disconcerting to all who can read even 5th grade history books.

    The S&Ls – punished by Libeconomitis, tortured by Carter and Obama's BFF Paul Volker and newly freed of any effective regulation by the Kotter Administration promptly failed at scale.

    The United States was in essentially the same predicament as Japan. This crisis was brought to us by the last generation's failed love affair with liberalism – James Earl Carter.

    Enter the Dragon. In the 1980 election America woke up from its liberal stupor and threw Jimmy Carter so far out of office that you could barely hear his body land with a thud back on the peanut farm. The next 12 years would afford the country the benefit of two Republican presidents who would clean up the S&L disaster. How did they do this?

    a) They used fountains of taxpayer money to bail out failed cororations called S&Ls while allowing the executives of the failed companies to pocket extraordinary sums of money. This is called the Obama option.

    b) They did nothing and just hoped that things would get better. This is called the Japanese option.

    c) They established a liquidation company, forced the failed S&Ls into receivership and sold off their assets to help defray the expense of the liberal caused meltdown. This is called the show some balls option.

    The answer, of course, is c).

    So, as Virginia's Democrats spend this evening crying in their beer (or, perhaps more truthfully, in their imported French wine) they will be blaming Bush for their woes. I would simply urge that they leave the history of the late 1970s and early 1980s aside. Because this sad time im America was brought to us by the last liberal loser to occupy the White House and solved by the "A Team" of Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush.

    As a side note, I'd probably avoid any discussion of foreign policy from the last liberal lion as well. We are coming up to the 30th anniversary of Jimmy Carter's courageous approach at freeing the American hostages in Iran by turning off the lights on the White House Christmas tree. I believe these same hostages were freed on the day of Reagan's inauguration. funny thing about terrorist cowards … they don't really want to face American military might. They'd much rather see the Christmas tree left dark.

  6. Conservative? There is nothing conservative about the state of the country or its leadership these days. Radical, corporatized Republicrats are fully in control.
    Values mean nothing to the duopoly.

    The current unravelling/depression/breakdown was not hard to predict.

    I turn my back to it all. I go back to the Green Party's Ten Key Values.

    http://www.gp.org/tenkey.shtml

  7. Anonymous Avatar

    Who is blaming Bush? This goes all the way back to Eisenhower, Nixon, and Reagan, not to mention LBJ.

    RH

  8. Anonymous Avatar

    " Values mean nothing to the duopoly. "

    Hear, hear! that's more like it.

    At the polling place this morning I told both tables that neither candidate had a single idea that didn't come in a can.

    The Republican canvasser tried to engage me by offering to talk about issues, and I told him, look, you don't get it: the only issues Republicans talk about are ones I don't care about, and all the issues Democrats care about aren't worth talking about.

    It is all about power and about winning, it's not about values anymore. I hope a thousand people took my advice and wrote in someone's name.

    ————————

    Maybe I agree on principal that government should not be doing anything the private sector can make a profit at.

    So, After McDonnell sells the liquor stores, what is he going to replace the revenue with?

    Or what is he going to do without?

    RH

  9. Anonymous Avatar

    How many of the liquidated S&L's paid off any of their debt?

    How many of the bailed out banks will?

    How many of the failed banks will? We have already closed close to six hundred banks.

    RH

  10. Groveton Avatar

    "How many of the liquidated S&L's paid off any of their debt?".

    I'd guess none.

    They were liquidated. That means they weren't around to pay off debt. No? Rather, the Resolution Trust Company took over the failed S&Ls, sold their assets and used the proceeds to pay back the S&L investment insurance fund.

    Which is exactly what Obama should have done with the banks. And he should have let the car companies fail.

  11. Gooze Views Avatar
    Gooze Views

    Jim, et. al.
    First, I apologize for this original post since I was pressed for time to get to a meeting and raced through. To answer various qustions:
    (1) I don't see thast I amn criticizing Bush more than Obama.I see trouble with both. But I agree with Larry G. that it is amusing to see this GOP-types ignore Bush's profligate spending only to suddenly start their debt to GDP drum beating the moment Obama takes the oath of office. One can bring up Jimmy Carter allyou want to but let's not forget that he inherited a lot of debt run by (by Dems) for the Vietnam War and the dynamics of oil politics were very much different. And, it is Ronnie Reagan who proved the biggest deficit spender of them all! B. CLinton actually balanced the budget. Comments?

    (2) Jim, my point about Japan is that its woes — and the ones you are alluding to — are the effects of deflation which is a horse of an entirely differtent color than the inflation scenario you are trying to present. That column was actually part of one I wrote about creating "bad" banks last winter to sop up bad debt. Japan was the bad example and Sweden was the good one. I agree with Jim that there is so much credit floating around that inflationary pressures do indeed threaten. It could be the classic definition of inflation as too much money chasing too few goods. But Jim seems to confuse Japan's delfationary situation with the threat of inflation.
    (3) As far as you a——-s gloating about McDonnell's big win today (and I am pointing the finger at YOU, Groveton), well what can I say? Deeds ran a lousy campaign and didn't get much help from DNC chief Kaine. There is frustration with Obama (for problems NOT of his making). And it's time for the GOP winds to blow again. If you had bothered to read BR recently, you will noticed I did a posting on this very topic.

    Peter Galuszka

  12. Anonymous Avatar

    Jeez, I read that Green party thing and there was NOTHING green in it. It is a combination of the apostles creed and the communist manifesto.

    It had so many internal contradictions it made my head hurt.

    And of course I loved the last one wher the goal is to counterbalance the drive for short term profits with motivation for long term goals. You NEED the short term profits to GET TO the long term goals. The market can reamain irrational longer than you can remain liquid.

    "The Green Party is no longer the alternative, the Green Party is the imperative" "Every human being deserves a say in the decisions that affect their lives and not be subject to the will of another".. (except the green way is the only way.)

    RH

  13. Anonymous Avatar

    Correction:

    used the proceeds to pay back PART OF the S&L investment insurance fund.

    Just as the major banks will pay back PART OF the money that was used to bail them out.

    Which way will we see more of our money, eventually?

    I'm not making any judgement about which policy is better. I'm just suggesting that if we cared about the answer, we could find out, based on what provided a better return on investment.

    We are not going to find out because we will start off with a dogmatic presumption and then set about to prove the presumption.

    Sure, we could have let AIG and the major banks fail. But almost all of us have financail stakes n those companies through mutual funds etc. and all of that would have been wiped out.

    Whether we did something or did nothing,innocent people were going to pay the price for what happened.

    Before I would agree that we should have let the banks and car companies fail, I'd like to see a little better analysis.

    RH

  14. Groveton Avatar

    LOL Peter. Another pre-mortem? Shouldn't Deeds' body be cool beofre you pronounce him dead? As for Obama not causing any of today's problems … bulls*&^%! He was elected a year ago. His bailout scheme was half assed (failing companies should be allowed to fail). He added way too much to the deficit. His health care initiative has been a clown show. Unemployment continues at way too high a level. Afghanistan has gotten steadlily worse since he took over and he can't decide what to.

    He inherited lots of problems but one year since his election he has accomplished nothing. In fact, he has made things worse. And that's one big reason why all you Dems are performing pre-mortems on Creigh Deeds. The voters are sick of Obama's lack of progress on anything other than running up the deficit. If he's in the same position next year – kiss the House of Reprentatives goodbye.

  15. Anonymous Avatar

    (failing companies should be allowed to fail).

    Remind me not to have you on the death committee.

    You don't think there is ANY circumstances that would warrant the government stepping in for a little temporary resusitation?

    RH

  16. Anonymous Avatar

    In fact,he has made things worse.

    Worse than what? what have we got to compare to? That's a problem when dealing with the economy, we onlyhave one so it is hard to run a comparative experiment.

    But

    Europe had smaller relative stimus and China had a larger relative stimulus, and China is bouncing back faster and Europe is bouncing back slower.

    My net worth took a hit like averyone else, but it is almost back to where it was now.

    That's all the comparison I can come up with. Anyway, I don't think you can blame him for much of anything in only ten months: it takes me that long to clean out the garage.

    —————————–

    Maybe, if we let all the financial wizrds and CEO's that got us into this mess be our restructuring experts, we could have just closed all those businesses and sold off the assets for whatever we could get. The new owners of all of those banks and AIG's insurance policies would be on solid ground overnight. And we would be back to business as usual by now, FUBAR as ever.

    Of course if that didn't happen the banks that wound up with the notes would recall them for lack of insurance, and no one would be able to pay.

    Meanwhile the bankers and lawyers that worked all the deals would make billons in legal fees and bonuses, fleecing whatever was left of the bankrupt companies before the creditors saw a penny, let alone the shareholders.

    I wouldn't exactly call preventing that nothing.

    RH

  17. Groveton Avatar

    "And we would be back to business as usual by now, FUBAR as ever.".

    It is business as usual RH. What's new? Has Obama pushed through an overhaul of the banking regulations? Of course not. The greedy corrupt people on Wall St are among his best paying supporters. Nothing has changed.

    "Meanwhile the bankers and lawyers that worked all the deals would make billons in legal fees and bonuses, fleecing whatever was left of the bankrupt companies before the creditors saw a penny, let alone the shareholders.".

    The executives on Wall St are minting money for themselves – right now. Under Obama's regime. What are you talking about?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/18/AR2009101802542.html

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/10/18/2009-10-18_latest_wall_st_bonuses_are_simply_obscene.html

    The lawyers and CEOs would have gotten rich? They are getting richer than ever under Obama. Why? Because Obama has proven the government will underwrite their risks. He has proven that he'll only pay lip service to financial system reform. And he's spening your money to keep these guys in clover.

    Wake up RH! Nothing has changed.

  18. Groveton Avatar

    A recession is when your neighbor loses his job.

    A depression is when you lose your job.

    A recovery is when Obama loses his job

  19. I truly have nothing invested in Obama.. at all..

    He is young and grossly inexperienced and the chances of him not making multiple mistakes, some of which might be exceptional serious are almost zip.

    but he's in the Lion's Den for better or worse.. and we better pray that he has some damn good advisors and that he's pays attention.

    Now.. for the folks who seem to like to construct their own realities with regard to who shot John with respect to the economy..

    Mr. Clinton – ya'll know that socialist liberal… turned over a balanced budget (mostly) and why ya'll want to talk about Jimmy Carter and everything else under the sun other than this germane fact just convinces me that ya'll …like that whipper-snapper in a "Few Good Men" just cannot take the truth.

    The budget was balanced.

    The Fiscal Conservatives heros took over…

    they new there were scams going on in the mortgage market so what did they do?

    well they gutted some more laws and regs .. and then cut taxes …

    then they went off and started two wars.. and claimed that because they were wars they should be done "off budget"..

    then.. Big Pharma wanted to get in on the money blizzard so our fiscal conservative friends gave them Medicare Part D – also off budget.

    Then the whole flaming mess comes apart at the seams.. and those wonderful fiscal conservatives run for the hills warning that some marxist is about to take office…

    so… NOW… according to these guys we have serious problems and this guy who inherited this flaming mess.. instead of doing what Bush should have done (but did not).. he decided – with substantial advice from experts in economics that the TARP, bailouts and stimulus was necessary to keep this country from going into a Depression.

    Notice that this was not at all what his predecessors did when they were telling us that deregulation and tax cuts would bring us prosperity….

    nope.. this President in not doing anything but what most of the advisors have been strongly urging him to do…with clear acknowledgement that downstream , we are going to face serious deficit challenges.

    so.. NOW .. ALL OF a Sudden after 8 years of patting themselves on the back while the economy was going to hell in a handbasket.. these paragons of fiscal responsibility are telling us that Obama has us on a express train to economic hell.

    We may well be on that train.. and the guy in charge .. he might actually have a train wreck.. I hope not.. I hope they manage to salvage something out of this..

    but the last folks in the world that I want to hearing giving advice right now are those yahoos that spent the last eight years fouling the air with their lips flapping in the breeze.

    When I see these very same guys who presided over the Bush Congress get up to suggest that Obama has it wrong – I need to find the tums…

    Note to Groveton: Congratulations…

    Now tell me the top 3 things that Mr. McDonnell is going to accomplish for Virginia….

    Every six months, I'm gonna come back and ask you how well he is doing on these 3 things.

  20. Groveton Avatar

    It will be interesting to see how election day rumors match election night results.

    Right now I am hearing rumors (from both Reps and Dems) that the Dems are getting slaughtered in this election. My Dem friends are calling for their ilk to get out and vote in hopes of losing fewer House of Delagates seats (they seem to have given up on state-wide victory). My GOP friends are whispering about a House of Delegates with 65+ Republicans.

    Time will tell….

  21. Groveton Avatar

    "Mr. Clinton – ya'll know that socialist liberal… turned over a balanced budget (mostly) and why ya'll want to talk about Jimmy Carter and everything else under the sun other than this germane fact just convinces me that ya'll …like that whipper-snapper in a "Few Good Men" just cannot take the truth.".

    I believe that the whipper-snapper won the trial – no?

    Here's a takeoff from the key scene from the movie that I've sent to our finance and hr people a couple of times:

  22. Groveton – funny! but I think this take off thoroughly exposes what I'm talking about with regard to constructed realties and our so called fiscally conservative friends… who inherited a balanced budget from Mr. Clinton.

    Like in your video clip – they think that spending on our Military is apparently like lap dances, a justifiable expense…

    so .. we don't need to account for that spending – because it's done for a good cause..

    this is the part where our fiscal conservatives friends add the social conservatism ingredient to their recipes.

    good causes don't need to be done on budget.

    bad causes.. you gotta account for every penny….

    lap dances – yes

    health care for the lap dancers – no

  23. Groveton Avatar

    Facts are stubborn things…

    "well they gutted some more laws and regs .. and then cut taxes …".

    John F. Kennedy cut taxes (expressed as a percentage of GDP) by more than any other president before or since.

    The crucial regulation that prevented banks from becoming casinos was the Glass-Steagall Act (1934). That act wae repealed by Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999. That bill was passed in the Senate by a 90-8 vote and the in House by a 362-57 vote. It was signed into law by your hero Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999. The repeal enabled commercial lenders such as Citigroup, which was in 1999 the largest U.S. bank by assets, to underwrite and trade instruments such as mortgage-backed securities and collateralized debt obligations and establish so-called structured investment vehicles, or SIVs, that bought those securities.

    The Federal Reserve Bank (criminal organization #1 in the latest financial meltdown in my opinion) was formed by legislation pushed by Woodrow Wilson.

    The Democratic Party has its greedy greasy fingerprints all over this crisis – just like the Republicans do.

  24. Groveton Avatar

    I thought Bill Clinton did a good job as president. I'd vote for him today if he were able to run. I would have definitely voted for him over either Obama or McCain last November.

    The problem is that we don't have a choice between one candidate and perfection. We have a choice between one candidate and another.

    My biggest problem with Obama is that he hasn't done much. In fact, as far as I can tell, he hasn't done anything constructive. His "victory" didn't happen in the election. That was only the first step in the race. His true victory will be if he makes things better. Right now I'd say he's off to a very poor start.

    I don't know if Deeds or McDonnell will win. Unlike the uber-Democrats I am not willing to do a pre-mortem on the man. He stunned everybody in the primary. However, in my opinion, he was a lousy candidate who has a poor command of the issues and ran a weak compaign. He deserves to lose (whether he ends up losing or not).

    Let's say that conventional wisdom holds and McDonnell wins. I will not let up on McDonnell for a second. I won't be babbling about inheriting the problems of the Kaine years in 12 months. Either McDonnell will get of his butt and move the state foreward or he won't. Either way, I intend to do what I can to hold his feet to the fire for a bit more than 4 years. Kaine was a fiasco. If McDonnell is a fiasco you can expect to hear that from me.

  25. .. and Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress had how many years to watch the industry trend to CDOs and they did what?

    You are correct. They are a lot of hands involved in creating the problem.

    What I'm asking is.. once it was realized to be a serious issue – on whose watch and what did they do about it?

    they not only did nothing about it.. they proceeded to ignore it .. and while the Banking industry was rotting from the inside, they did tax cuts, two wars off budget and medicare Part D …

    then ran for the hills and let Bush hand Obma a steaming bag of dog doo…

    so now.. they come back out of hiding to talk about how this Marxist President has screwed up this country.

    H Y P O C R I T E S ! ! !

    and .. I'm not sure what we call the folks who go right on with their little worlds that pretend that none of this actually happened…

    this is like blaming the Securities and Exchange folks for not catching Madoff after the Bushies took it over and gutted it.. rendering it blind and toothless so it would not harass "respectable" businessmen.

    this is the Republican approach these days.

    they throw Coleman Fuel on the campfire and blame it on the bears..

  26. "The Democratic Party has its greedy greasy fingerprints all over this crisis – just like the Republicans do."

    Exactly. They are one in the same!
    You both are saying the other guy sucks and YOU BOTH ARE RIGHT!

    That's why it doesn't matter who wins tonight….there is only one thing for sure – the results will be the same;

    Higher taxes/fees (in some form or another), more back room deals, well healed donors getting the most benefits from the gov't, corporations of all types gaming the system, a pathetic 4th estate, and individuals of all ages, races, colors, and creeds getting shafted.

  27. Groveton Avatar

    I don't know why you even listen to former Bush Administration officials anynmore. If I see Cheney's name in a headline I just bypass the article and look for something worth reading.

    But Obama's blame the past routine needs to end someday. I think it should have ended a while ago. He's the president. He has a majority in both houses and he's not getting anything done.

    As I wrote before, I am not complaining about what he's done – I am complaining about what he hasn't done. Unfortunately, he's starting to look like another inexperienced guy who flew up the political ladder and became president in 1976.

    Carter or Kennedy? Which will Obama be?

    Where's the banking reform?
    Where's the plan to end the wars?
    Where's the tax hike on people making more than $200,000 (or $250,000 – he changed his tune during the election)?

    Where's the beef?

  28. " Where's the banking reform?
    Where's the plan to end the wars?
    Where's the tax hike on people making more than $200,000 (or $250,000 – he changed his tune during the election)?

    Where's the beef?"

    well.. we've had 8 years of steaming dog doo… with a fancy label that says "I kept you safe so don't bother me about this other stuff"

    I don't know if Bush and the Republicans could have headed this off but my sense is that they were not even paying attention.. much less knew what to do … and that is pretty scary stuff..

    When this thing broke last fall – Bush was acting like he had no clue what what was going on – and the Republicans not either.

    All of them.. were acting like they just came out of the rest room and the building was on fire.

    and when the fire crew showed up – they wanted to argue about what hoses to use … total incompetents.

    Now.. these same guys are rendering opinion on this administration's efforts?

    they and their misguided supporters are living in an alternate universe where Father Reagan will read them bedtime stories…about those wonderful days economic la la land… while they suck their thumbs…

    Expecting these guys to help lead us out of this mess is laughable.

  29. Anonymous Avatar

    The executives on Wall St are minting money for themselves – right now. Under Obama's regime. What are you talking about?

    OK, I'm confused. If everything is back to normal, what is your gripe?
    The O administration just let CIT fail. What should he be doing?

    Is there anything Obama could do that would make you happy, short of resigning?

    RH

  30. Anonymous Avatar

    "lap dances – yes

    health care for the lap dancers – no"

    That's funnier than the video.

    I'm all in favor of a strong defense, but you have to wonder, When our navy is larger thanthe next five combined, and they are our allies……

    A little light sailing on the Bay.

  31. anyone who thinks this economy is "back to normal" is several cards short of a full deck IMHO.

    This economy is hanging by a thread …

    the train wreck that everyone is worrying about.. we may not make it that far…before the wheels come off.

    many of the jobs that have gone away are not going to come back.

    this mess is a perfect storm

  32. Anonymous Avatar

    "The Democratic Party has its greedy greasy fingerprints all over this crisis – just like the Republicans do."

    Well, there you have it. A critical lack of ethical spine in both parties.

    Time for a new one.

    RH

  33. Darrell -- Chesapeake Avatar
    Darrell — Chesapeake

    Wow, you guys are almost beginning to sound like me. Did the lights finally come on?

  34. Darrell….. I do think there are some dark days still ahead of us…

  35. Anonymous Avatar

    I don't understand all the handwringing. For the last 25 years my investments have made money every year but three: 2001, 2002 and 2008.

    Thank you Bill Clinton and George Bush. Last year I lost 36% and this year I made 38%, so far.

    About 8% of my investment is in financials which would have been mostly wiped out had they been allowed to fail.

    I don't know what my share of the bailout is, but I doubt if it is equal to 8% of my investments, and some of it may still come back.

    RH

  36. Groveton Avatar

    "Is there anything Obama could do that would make you happy, short of resigning?".

    First of all, I voted in the election today. However, I did not personally cause the Democrats to get smoked across the board. So, apparently, I am not the only person who is a bit frustrated with the way things have gone. It seems that the people in New Jersey may be a bit "torqued off" too. I think the Democrats should thank their lucky stars that this is only a minor off-year election in a few races. If this was 2010 they would be in deep, deep trouble. If they are smart they'll take tonight as a warning and mend their ways.

    What can Obama do?

    1) He should go back and inventory his campaign promises and present a 7 year plan for getting them done.

    2) He should admit that McCain was right and campaign financing / special interest castration should be an "A" item on his agenda.

    3) He should send 40,000 more US troops to Afhganistan now.

    4) He should present a more detailed time table to get us out of Iraq. The sooner the better. The Iraqis are ready to take care of themselves.

    5) He should stop printing money like it's newsprint. He should implement his take hike on the rich. He should pare back all government spending – not just the military. He should recast his ridiculous economic projections to reflect the reality of the next 5 – 10 years. We are not going to "grow out of our deficit". The defecit is too big and the permanent economic dislocation is too severe.

    6) He should tighten security at our borders. That is just an disaster waiting to happen. He should also implement a guest worker program similar to the program in Germany.

    7) He should announce plans for compulsory public sevice. Two years for every young person between the ages of 18 and 25. Military is an option but not the only option. Practical education should be part of the plan. People who can't read, write or perform basic math functions must be taught these skills as part of their 2 year hitch. In fact, if you show up below acceptable standards – it's a 3 year hitch.

    8) He should terminate 90% of the hundreds of military treaties now in force between the US and other countries.

    9) He should enact protectionist legislation that prevents the wholesale shipment of US jobs offshore.

    10) He should legislate the structure of pay for all executives at all companies "too big to fail". The pay can be generous but the majority of the compensation will only vest after multiple years of good results (like 5-7 years).

    11) He should push for re-enactment of Glass-Steagall (or, at least, a close version).

    12) He should merge Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into a government agency. GS and SES pay scales for all the geniuses at those two companies.

  37. Anonymous Avatar

    I do think there are some dark days still ahead of us…

    When the SP PE ratio is 137, I would tend to agree. At least you would hate to be buying in at that price: boomers beware.

    RH

  38. "People who can't read, write or perform basic math functions must be taught these skills as part of their 2 year hitch."

    ummm….What the hell have they been doing in school and why is it costing so much?

  39. Groveton Avatar

    Let's gore all of the sacred cows. America's schools, the NEA and the teachers/administrators as a group (rather than individually) have failed the country. The test scores relative to other countries don't lie.

    We need to fix the schools but the NEA is one of those special interest groups that needs to be castrated. That sould take a while and it won't help the legions of young adults who got through the systems without being able to read, write or perform basic math at an adequate level. Those people need to live in barracks, work for the government for relatively low wages and make up for lost time in their education.

    Back to the schools – I would fine parents who don't show up for PTA meetings. You're not allowed to skip out on jury duty – why should you be able to skip out on your kids?

  40. Groveton Avatar

    I am stunned and thrilled to hear the results of the governor's race. Not in Virginia but in New Jersey.

    Corzine is the poster boy for scummy Wall St types who finagle their way into back office politics. He is typical of too many of Obama's financial supporters. Now he is unemployed. Good.

  41. Anonymous Avatar

    OK, other than 3 and 9, what can he actually accomplish without help from Republicans?

    ( I think protectionist legislation is a joke: we can't afford to work for ourselves.)

    He will need a seven year plan, after he spent the first year in crisis management.

    We don't need special interest castration. What we ned are elected representives who represent everyone, whether they send money or not. We already have laws about preferential treatment – send a few legislators to jail for dereliction of duty.

    The biggest special interests muking up the government today are the Republican party and the Democratic party. You think we can call in the vets and castrate a few elephants and asses?

    If we slap a tax on poppies and protect the farmers, we could probably pay for the war. Oh wait, I could grow poppies here, that would be exporting jobs.

    Wasn't McCain opposed to a timetable for leaving Iraq?

    ——————————-

    He should announce plans for compulsory public sevice. Two years for every young person between the ages of 18 and 25.

    Jesus, I thought the idea was to get government out of our lives. Let's hire a bunch of young people to interfere even more with stuff they don't understand. What are we going to pay them with? If we do it when they are 22 are we going to defer their college loans? Doesn't government have enough to do without taking on the job of supervising senior kindergarten? Do we think government can handle it?

    And since we are over 25, isn't this a little like sticking it to the new guys? My nephews and nieces will be seriously PO'd. Hey, you, you guys need to go do this for me: you get to work while I go slash your social security.

    —————————

    I agree executive pay is out of control. Plato thought 25X should be the limit. Some of these guys earn in a minute what their workers earn in a week. We need more shareholder control over what they own.

    Ideology aside, just from a practical standpoint we have reached a point where the only place we can get money is from where it is.

    —————————-
    "this is like blaming the Securities and Exchange folks for not catching Madoff after the Bushies took it over and gutted it.. rendering it blind and toothless so it would not harass "respectable" businessmen."

    TC = PC + EC + GC

    RH

  42. Anonymous Avatar

    "I would fine parents who don't show up for PTA meetings. "

    How about a fine for people who don't vote, while you are at it.

    RH

  43. Anonymous Avatar

    CBS News: Senate Republicans boycott climate meeting

  44. Anonymous Avatar

    Since there is no safe place to put my money, I plan to spend it all right away.

    Mostly overseas so I can get the most hard goods for my money.

    I'm going to borrow up to the hilt and buy me a backhoe to dig a fortress, and an armory to defend it. Fill it with enough canned goods to last my retirement. Don't pull a building permit on it so they can't tax me.

    I'll pay back the loans with hyperinflated Republican dollars, so this will mostly be free, no cost.

    Then I'll bitterly settle in with my rifle and my bible, maybe a copy of the Fountainhead, and wait for the hordes to swarm across the border to steal all the stuff they can make at home cheaper.

    Have a nice day.

    RH

  45. Accurate Avatar

    "Is there anything Obama could do that would make you happy, short of resigning?".

    Yes, he could resign, then denounce his citizenship and please take the all the democrats AND republicans that are in Congress (especially Biden and Pelosi) with him and move to Venezuela. THAT would be a GREAT start. Besides, Obama, Biden and Pelosi will feel MUCH more at home down there.

  46. Anonymous Avatar

    Wait a minute, maybe I'm on to something here.

    Republican money and Democratic money, with the rate of exhange established by the inflation rate of the last appropriate administration.

    Kind of a national put your money where your mouth is.

    Republican small businesmen can put up signs saying "No Liberal Money Accepted" "Discounts to Social Conservatives"

    Democrats can form co-ops where the price is set by majority rule.

    RH

  47. Anonymous Avatar

    Well, that's not exactly short of resigning now, is it?

    RH

  48. Groveton Avatar

    "OK, other than 3 and 9, what can he actually accomplish without help from Republicans?".

    He certainly could do #1.

    "He will need a seven year plan, after he spent the first year in crisis management.".

    We were in crisis during the election when he made all those promises. He never stopped talking about the crisis during the election. Now it's a surprise?

    "We don't need special interest castration. What we ned are elected representives who represent everyone, whether they send money or not. We already have laws about preferential treatment – send a few legislators to jail for dereliction of duty.".

    It's not a few rich people sending money to politicians. It is a systematic and deliberate undercutting of our democratic process by corporastions and organizations with billions and billions of dollars of moeny flowing through their income statements every year. The scope and scale of scam is almost indescribable.

    "Jesus, I thought the idea was to get government out of our lives. Let's hire a bunch of young people to interfere even more with stuff they don't understand. What are we going to pay them with? If we do it when they are 22 are we going to defer their college loans? Doesn't government have enough to do without taking on the job of supervising senior kindergarten? Do we think government can handle it?".

    "Government" runs the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. Government run the Department of Agriculture and VDOT. Government runs the schools. Government runs lots of things. Mandatory public service (often in the military) is the norm in many countries. The Netherlands for example. Call it a compulsory associates degree (or masters degree if you went to college). We lack the skills to compete, as a nation, in the global economy. Re-skilling our young people to be able to compete is in everybody's best interest. It is a core responsibility of government. Unlike owning liquor stores or running a post office.

    "Wasn't McCain opposed to a timetable for leaving Iraq?".

    Yes. That's one reason he was an inferior candidate. Which is one reason he lost. However, Obama promised that he would do this. Now it's time to hold him to that promise. Obama won the election. He earned the right to be held to his promises.

    "And since we are over 25, isn't this a little like sticking it to the new guys? My nephews and nieces will be seriously PO'd. Hey, you, you guys need to go do this for me: you get to work while I go slash your social security.".

    Life is tough. Ask my uncles who got drafted and had to serve in Vietnam (my Dad volunteered for Korea ans stayed in the military). Hold a seance and ask my grandfather who got drafted and had to go fight on the ground in WWI. I have 5 kids. They'd all be better adults if they did this. They don't like homework either. Too bad. Life is tough.

    "I agree executive pay is out of control. Plato thought 25X should be the limit. Some of these guys earn in a minute what their workers earn in a week. We need more shareholder control over what they own.".

    The whole shareholder:board member:executive:employee model is broken.

    "How about a fine for people who don't vote, while you are at it.". When you don't vote somebody else makes the required decision. When you don't provide parental supervision there is nobody who automatically takes over the role.

    In my opinion, most people shouldn't vote because most people haven't taken sufficient time to understand the issues. Therefore, their votes are detrimental to good government.

  49. Anonymous Avatar

    I agree it may be time to restate his plan.

    Other than that, it was mostly straw men.

    Good answers and explanation, as usual.

    RH

  50. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    So, Ray, regarding this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0ufsTve-e8), which one is you? Are you the guy behind the wheel in the red parka?

  51. Anonymous Avatar

    Mark your calendar.

    Give Mcdonnell ten months and see how many of his promises he keeps.

    RH

  52. Anonymous Avatar

    Yeah that's me.

    Sailing pictures are alot like politics: you can't really see what is going on.

    It was actually windy enough that day that one of the racing yachts overturned and put three people in the water.

    sometimes the smart thing to do is be a Republican sailor and trim sails. Then again, it depends on whether you want to actually get someplace.

    RH

  53. Anonymous Avatar

    "The surge in China’s growth will continue to ease over the coming year as the initial impact of the massive government stimulus plan fades, a new poll of economists by The Wall Street Journal shows. The pace of expansion in China’s gross domestic product is expected to moderate to an annual rate of 8%-9% into 2010 from its peak of around 15% in the middle of this year, according to the survey"

    Why would we expect the US experience to be any different?

    RH

  54. re: The Groveton 12

    Pretty good.. I agree with most but getting the support of the Neanderthal right could prove problematical…

    #3 – Afghanistan is a loser.

    That country has a literacy rate of 28%.

    the only countries worse are:

    Niger 28.7
    175 Chad 25.7
    176 Mali 24.0
    177 Burkina Faso 23.6

    What is our mission and what is a "win" when 2/3 of the population know only their thousand-year old culture and have no clue who the US is or why we are there?

    Can you imagine being an Afghan trying to explain to your kids who the US soldiers are and why they are killing your relatives?

    We're being told over here that the Taliban are intruders – unwanted interlopers but the reality is that they are Afghanistan's version of the Viet Cong – friends and relatives who are essentially a citizen militia.

    You kill them.. and you create more of them… every one out to avenge the killing of members of their family.

    Somehow, out Neocon friends manage to take this situation and turn it into a test of American "values"…. financed on a credit card with young Americans as cannon fodder.

    this makes about as much sense as going into a swamp to kill cottonmouths… because cottonmouths are "bad" snakes…

  55. Anonymous Avatar

    Four years ago, Democratic gubernatorial hopeful Timothy M. Kaine focused heavily on Loudoun and Prince William, emphasizing "smart growth" at a time when development and traffic topped the list of concerns. This time, it was McDonnell who mapped out a campaign strategy that would embrace Northern Virginia to an unprecedented degree for a Republican statewide candidate.

    McDonnell also tapped into the economic concerns that have overshadowed development. Prince William had the highest number of foreclosures in the region last year and saw home values plummet by as much as one-third since the peak of the market. Voters in the exurbs were primed for McDonnell's low-taxes message and were turned off by Deeds's willingness to raise taxes for transportation.

    "Northern Virginia sends millions to Richmond but only gets thousands back for transportation," said Dianne Swavely, an Occoquan resident who voted for McDonnell. "We're not getting our fair share, and I'm getting tired of it."

    WAPO

    RH

  56. " "Northern Virginia sends millions to Richmond but only gets thousands back for transportation," said Dianne Swavely, an Occoquan resident who voted for McDonnell. "We're not getting our fair share, and I'm getting tired of it."

    I call this the FAUX News effect.

    If something if repeated often enough – it becomes accepted as truth.

    Until we actually see an accounting of how much NoVa generates in gasoline tax, we don't even know the first half of the equation.

    Right now, I have yet to meet anyone who knows how much gasoline tax money that NoVa sends to Richmond much less how much comes back to NoVa.

    until we actually know that, then how could any of us be in favor of or opposed to higher taxes or change in the current Richmond-delivered transportation money for NoVa?

    This kind of thing.. kinda makes the people saying it .. appear uninformed…

    but then again.. these days.. not being in receipt of facts, is but a mere flimsy excuse for not holding an opinion.

    As Groveton has said" "facts are a stubborn thing"…

    and so are .. apparently the lack of them also…

  57. Anonymous Avatar

    Well put Larry G.

    What scares me is that in our NoVa high tech office this AM there are a lot of folks, including ones that went to 'victory' parties last year who are saying:

    "I do not think I can live another four years in a state that has voters who keep electing idiots."

    If we have a brain drain on top of the fiscal crisis that Jim Bacon is talking about and the dysfunctional land use patterns that EMR is talking about and the main stream media that Peter keeps defending the 'commonwealth' will be the common disaster.

    JMK

  58. Anonymous Avatar

    WaPo did a good job of summing up why the election turned out the way it did.

    They did not do a good job of highlighting their own role in failure to inform citizens.

    We already have our resume out — (out of state that is).

    Looking for greener pastures.

  59. E M Risse Avatar

    EMR tends to agree with JMK and Greener Pastures.

    As for the election results it will be months before there is anything to judge the newly elected by.

    Ruth Marcus in WaPo said it well:

    "Advice to readers about the coming orgy of analysis about the NJ and VA elections: Ignor it. She goes on to cite the data back to 1949 on those two states' election results providing information of the future.

    Time to focus on citizen education so we can get some non-idiots to run and win elections.

    Actually the candidates are not idiots, it is a systemic problem that derives from the political party duopoly.

    Antipartisanship anyone. Groveton will be retiring in time to help out with more than jibes?

    EMR

  60. Anonymous Avatar

    opps

    'victory' parties last NIGHT (some who when last year too.

    JMK

  61. Anonymous Avatar

    If you ask a dozen people you will get a dozen answers as to what counties represent NOVA.

    EMR will love that, coming from me.

    But the bigger messagein that quote was the intimation that Kaine ran on Smart Growth, but right now people are a lot more willing to be looking for ANY growth.

    RH

  62. Anonymous Avatar

    "Advice to readers about the coming orgy of analysis about the NJ and VA elections: Ignor it.

    Mark your Calendar, EMR and I (and Ruth Marcus) agree on something.

    RH

  63. Anonymous Avatar

    "If something if repeated often enough – it becomes accepted as truth.

    Until we actually see an accounting of how much NoVa generates in gasoline tax, we don't even know the first half of the equation."

    That doesn;t mean there are not ways to make good estimates.

    We know that miles traveled and GDP have a nearly perfect relationship. Money earned goes down, miles traveled goes down.

    We know that the total of per capita income for PW, Loudoun, Fairfax and Arlington totals $56 billion and the total for the whole state totals $73 billion.

    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/51000.html

    We may not know how much the NOVA area is supporting the rest of the state, not only in gas tax, but in every way, but we do know that it is big.

    The sentiment expressed by Diane Swavely isn't there becsause it is so often repeated, instead it is so often repeated becasue it is so obviously true.

    You cannot manage what you cannot measure, but somebody knows the answer. If not, then we need to do a better job of measuring, which probably isn;t being done precisely because it will lead to the opposite conclusion Larry reaches.

    RH

  64. Anonymous Avatar

    VA Gas Tax Collections Have Risen Faster than Transportation Demand and Inflation

    http://www.vpcga.com/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=202

    Fact Number Seven: Motor Fuel Tax Collections Have Far Outpaced the Number of Miles Travelled in Virginia

    1987 5.48 billion miles traveled
    2004 8.11 billion miles traveled

    Miles traveled increased 50 percent
    Motor fuels taxes increased 84 percent

    RH

  65. Anonymous Avatar

    "Loudoun County began the collection of a two percent local gasoline tax in January 1989. Initially, gasoline tax funds were
    administered through the Loudoun County Transportation District Commission (LCTDC). In January 1990, the Loudoun County
    Board of Supervisors dissolved the LCTDC and elected to join the Northern Virginia Transportation Commission (NVTC). Local
    gasoline tax collections are now directed to a special Loudoun account at NVTC and transferred to the County as revenue.

    In 1993, the Board of Supervisors modified the original policy by establishing a funding formula for the Local Gasoline Tax
    Fund’s annual budget. This policy requires that Fund revenue be allocated according to the following formula: 80% for capital
    projects, 15% for transportation-related projects, and 5% for administration of the County’s transportation system. The Board
    also implemented an application process for community organizations requesting use of County Gasoline Tax revenue."

    Loudoun County and the other counties know exactly what their two percent gas tax raises and from that data you could easly calculate how much each county that is part of the NVTC raises in state gas tax.

    RH

  66. If someone had SOME CLUE as to how much money was involved – you know like a low and a high range… and at least some information if not all of it then their comment would have some merit.

    But they have absolutely no idea at all.

    If you asked them to estimate how much money is generated and how much comes back – their answer would be most likely just gibberish….

    and that's the problem.

    People don't know how much gas tax they pay at the pump per fill-up…

    they don't know how much gas tax they pay for the year.

    and yet.. they are convinced.. that we send "millions" and get back "thousands"… much less the actual difference between the two.

    what amount would they advocate for that actually "belongs" to NoVa and not Richmond?

    and yet.. no shortage of folks who are willing to posit that NoVa pays millions and get's back thousands…

    shouldn't people want to know the facts before they form opinions?

  67. " Loudoun County and the other counties know exactly what their two percent gas tax raises and from that data you could easly calculate how much each county that is part of the NVTC raises in state gas tax."

    Really? How about going through an example to show how to do it?

  68. Anonymous Avatar

    "Virginia transportation officials have begun thinking about linking the highway gasoline tax to the miles that vehicles drive on the state's roads.

    Doing that, however, would not be a painless fix for the state's highway woes.

    "It would mean that the gas tax itself would go up," Ralph M. Davis, state deputy secretary of transportation, said in an interview.

    Transitioning to a GPS-based tax on vehicle miles traveled would be technically and politically difficult, officials agree, and making such a shift would take upwards of two decades.

    However, Virginia could create a sort of mileage tax by annually adjusting the motor-fuel tax rate by the percentage change in statewide vehicle-miles traveled, Davis said, and add a factor to protect the revenue source from inflation.

    "It's a concept, an option for our consideration," he said, and not a proposal for action by the administration of Gov. Timothy M. Kaine.

    In one example of how the tax might work, Davis calculated that the pseudo-mileage tax would add about 2 cents a gallon to the price of gasoline and raise about $102 million a year for state transportation needs. His example used 2000 as the base year and the statewide vehicle-miles traveled and the inflation rate from 2007."

    RTD, April 2009

    ——————————–

    I guess that means it is now for McDonnell's consideration.

    RH

  69. Anonymous Avatar

    Really? How about going through an example to show how to do it?

    If a 2% local tax results in $1 million to the county and the state tax is 10% then the amount the county sends to the stae is $5million.

    OK, you are going to argue that the state tax is expressed as cents per gallon. I'm sure NVTC could give you the exact data, but even failing that you could get close enough to kill the argument that NOVA isn't subsidising ROVA.

    RH

  70. nope.. just tell me how much Loudoun County or Fairfax or Prince William generate in State Gas tx…and show me how you got the number.

  71. Anonymous Avatar

    It's also true that the General Assembly has not raised the gas tax since 1986, when it bumped the gas tax by 2.5 cents to the current 17.5 cents a gallon–and that more than doubling the tax now, as the GOP has asserted Deeds would do, would be well nigh impossible in a recession, especially with Republicans in command of the House of Delegates.

    (And yet, such a tax levy is also not unheard of: four states charge as much, and Virginia could add a dime to the current levy and still be under the average state gas tax in the U.S. today, which is 28.9 cents per gallon, according to the American Petroleum Institute.)

    At the request of House Speaker William J. Howell (R-Stafford), House appropriations committee staff, in an Oct. 1 memo, calculated that a 20-cent increase in the gas tax would cost the average two-car family an $300 a year, or $1,200 over the next governor's four-year term.

    ——————————–

    So, a 10 cent tax increase would cost the average two car family $150 a year. In NOVA, where 24% of population lives, congestion is already costing them $1069 per year and subsidy to transit is costing them another $30 per year. And that is per commuter not per houshold.

    By my calculations a 10 cent gas tax would cost all of Vrginia $507million of which $123million would come from NOVA. If you could solve 20% of NOVA's congestion problem that would be worth $602 million.

    This would pass the test of positive net public value, but the winners would not gain enough to pay off the losers, at least not in one year. That would take about six years.

    But since NOVA has already been paying similar excess amounts to ROVA for 20 years, ROVA hasn't really got any standing to complain.

    RH

  72. Anonymous Avatar

    I would need to know how much they got from their 2% sales tax. but lets say for th esake of argument it is $1,000,000 in Loudoun.

    A 2% gas tax at $2.50 a gallon is 5 cents per gallon and to generate a million ollars they must have used 20 million gallons. The state tax is 19 cents per gallon so Loudoun would have sent $3.8 million to the state in gas revenues.

    RH

  73. Anonymous Avatar

    In September 1986, a special session of the General Assembly was called to address transportation. As recommended by the Commission on Transportation in the 21st Century, Baliles hoped to raise $571 million the first year for a total of $6.3 billion over 10 years. That works out, when adjusted for inflation, to a little over $1 billion a year–or just about the sum Deeds and some transportation experts have said would be needed now.

    Baliles got less than what he wanted, but still a record tax increase at the time. The package raised $421.7 million the first year, of which Northern Virginia pocketed about $22 million.

    All together, the $422 million in new revenues cost $125 a year for a family making $30,000 a year. Adjusting for inflation, that $422 million translates into $831.6 million today– and an inflation-adjusted tax bill of about $295.58 today.

    Fred Kunkle in WAPO.

    As Fred notes it would be effectively less than that because there are more people, more of them are in NOVA and people are wealther today (even if it does not seem that way).

    At the time Baliles gas tax put us at fourth highest in the nation. To reach that status today we would have to increase the gas tax by 41 cents.

    RH

  74. Anonymous Avatar

    "The US DOT misused that data to suggest the federal motor fuels tax can no longer finance federal investments in highway and mass transit improvements,” ARTBA Vice President William Buechner said. “The data in fact suggest that the federal motor fuels taxes can remain a viable source of revenues for highway investments for the foreseeable future. The trust fund’s real problem is not the decline in VMT, but rather the economic slowdown and the fact the federal motor fuel tax rates have not been changed since 1993.”

    TheNewspaper has previously reported that gas tax revenues have not plunged at the state level. In Virginia, for example, fuel tax revenues were up 2.6 percent in fiscal 2008 (more). Motor carrier fuel tax receipts likewise increased in Illinois (more). At the same time, overall traffic has plunged on toll roads forcing huge increases in the tolling rates to prevent a loss in profit for private investors (more)."

    By The Newspaper
    December 23, 2008

  75. Gooze Views Avatar
    Gooze Views

    JMK
    Re:
    . . .the main stream media that Peter keeps defending the 'commonwealth' ..etc"

    Are you reading what I've been writing? I hardly defending the MSM in this state; quite the contrary. I have seen an extrremely unhealthy move towards advertising types running the show and of having "strategic market specialists" attend story meetings to enforce some story line whose goal is to rake in an increasingly smaller pile of dollar.s In fact, if you knew anything abhout me, you'd know I lost a job over this very issue a few years back.

    What you seem to be confusing is my suspicion of "citizens journalism" — or the idea that just any old person can tap away and provide the same kind of reporting that a democracy desperately needs. There is a skill set involved here and it's not all that easy to learn. Too often, the "citizens" can't report and can't separate the wheat from the chaff. Or, they are such lousy writers that their tomes are impenetrable.
    Take yours. You write clearly, but you have woefully misinterpreted me.

    Peter Galuszka

  76. Anonymous Avatar

    Peter G:

    Talk about missing the point!

    No one disagrees about the skill set.

    The question is what “pays” for employing the skills?

    It cannot be advertising because that ‘firewall’ is history.

    It cannot be circulation because citizens expect information for nothing — and they expect it to be entertaining.

    See “Cheap: The High Cost of Discount Culture.”

    Citizens must learn they have to pay far more for:

    Energy that is sustainable,

    Food that is nutritious,

    Drugs that are effective,

    A medical system that provides care,

    Industrial processes that pay the full cost of production…

    Who is going to tell them these things?

    Not the Main Stream Media and for sure not the electeds.

    JMK

  77. Gooze Views Avatar
    Gooze Views

    JMK

    "Citizens must learn they have to pay far more for:

    Energy that is sustainable,

    Food that is nutritious,

    Drugs that are effective,

    A medical system that provides care,

    Industrial processes that pay the full cost of production…

    Who is going to tell them these things?

    Not the Main Stream Media and for sure not the electeds."

    Some parts of the MSM report exactly this information. I don't think I'm missing the point; I'm not sure you are reading much in the way of news.

    Peter Galuszka

  78. Anonymous Avatar

    Peter G:

    Now I know you are confused.

    You are talking about alternative media, not Main Stream Media.

    Just to be sure, please list ten widely distributed Main Stream Media outlets that are addressing most or all of these issues.

    Also please put an asterisk next to those that are now hiring trained journalists with proven ability to apply the skill set.

    JMK

  79. Anonymous Avatar

    "Energy that is sustainable,

    Food that is nutritious,

    Drugs that are effective,

    A medical system that provides care,

    Industrial processes that pay the full cost of production…"

    All of those things cost more.

    Whether ctizens will pay more for them depends on whther the added value is worth the added cost. They are NOT going to pay more just because someone says it is worth it.

    Near me there is a sustainable agriculture billonaires estate that sells free range turkeys – for $6.50 a pound. I don't imagine they are selling very well in Mexico where the minimumm wage is around $4 – —a DAY.

    What sustains this is not the market for sustainable agriculture but the billions the owner made doing something rapacious.

    ————————–

    Which brings us around to"

    "Citizens must learn they have to pay far more for:"

    Who Sez?

    Where is the money coming from?

    If we have less pollution we may eventually spend a little less on cancer. How do we capture that savings in such a way that we can afford to spend "much more" on energy that is sustainable? Ar e our childeren and grandchildren of the futre going to send money back to us, somehow?

    Nope, we are gong to have to borrow the money, long term, and send them the bill that way. we have to look out for our own short term profits in order to be able to send them the long term gains.

    But that is just tne example. Where does the REST of the money come from? How do we decide what expenditure of public funds gives us the highest net public benefit?

    Is it going to be just because someone says "You must pay more for these things….."?

    I sure hope not.

    RH

  80. Anonymous Avatar

    RH

    As usual you miss the point.

    In an attempt to be cute and appear clever you just step in your one mess.

    The discussion is about the press and who is telling the whole story, not about your attempt to be clever.

    Do you have a list of Main Stream Media outlets that are telling the straight story?

    Perhaps you need to strat your own blog.

  81. Anonymous Avatar

    This is no attempt to be clever.

    I'm merely pointing out that to be sustainable any project must also be affordable.

    If the people who can afford it try to enforce the idea that people MUST pay MUCH MORE, for sustainable goods and services on those people that cannot afford it the result will be black markets, contempt for the law and ultimately open resistance.

    The idea that free range turkey at $6.50 a pound is somehow sustainable is outright laughable.

    We are developing a sort of environmental elitism that will be the downfall of the movement, if we don't start getting real about what things cost and what they are worth.

    Right now we have an idea we can clean up CO2 issues for only around 3% of global GDP, but that estimate may well be considerably understated.

    If it turns out to be 6 or ten percent that will translate into massive hardship for the worlds poorest peoples unless we have a massive transfer of global wealth.

    When the true effects of this become known the resulting conflict will result in as much damage as global warming might ever have done.

    Watch Copenhagen for a preview of coming events.

    RH

  82. Gooze Views Avatar
    Gooze Views

    JMK,
    Sorry, but I do not accept story assignments from acronyms or initials
    Peter Galuszka

  83. Anonymous Avatar

    I'll be happy to start my own blog when PEC pays me to do it.

    RH

Leave a Reply