Are the Millennials Really Different?

Millennials: the smart phone generation
Millennials: the smart phone generation

by James A. Bacon

One of the key questions in forecasting future trends in urban development is a demographic one: How different are the Millennials from previous generations? Sure, young people are flocking to urban centers, they’re driving less and they’re riding their bicycles more than Boomers and Generation Xers did at the same age. Here’s the million-dollar question: What will happen when they settle down, get married and have kids? Will they pack up and move to the burbs like previous generations?

In the “smart growth” view, Millennials are a different breed. While Boomers equated the automobile with freedom and mobility, Millennials are defined by the smart phone. The Millennial migration to urban centers, the preference for mixed-use development and mass transit, and the decline in Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) are structural shifts embedded in the generational zeitgeist that must be recognized in our long-term planning for zoning and transportation. Skeptics view the downturn in VMT as a short-term blip caused by the large size of the Millennial generation and economic hardship associated with the Great Recession and slow economic recovery. As Millennials age and the economy recovers, the skeptics say, America will return to the pattern of low-density, auto-centric growth and development that prevailed in the post-World War II era.

Against the backdrop of that debate, it is informative to read an op-ed written by my old boss, John W. Martin, president of the Southeastern Institute of Research, home of the Boomer Project. John comes to conclusions similar to those in the Smart Growth camp, but he reaches them by very different means — from marketing surveys used to tease out differences between the generations. 

Martin predicts continued urban revival. He writes:

The real story is what’s happening with the rebirth of the urban core and other high-density activity centers. Millennials and boomers are moving in, but with different motivations. Millennials, wired with a collective sense of self and a drive to change the world, crave the social connectedness and sustainable lifestyles that come with the high density of urban areas. … A greater number of people in more condensed spaces will help build a greater sense of community.

Defined by the smart phone revolution, Millennials are wired differently from Boomers and Gen-Xers, Martin says.

A more recent sign pointing to a greater sense of community is the emergence of the sharing economy. Ushered in by social media, millennials’ hyper-connected shared sense of self, and economic necessity, the sharing economy is about sharing, not owning. Some examples: bike sharing, car sharing and house sharing. There’s even sugar sharing (www.sharesomesugar.com), which helps you find someone in your neighborhood who is willing to share something you need. Sharing is the DNA of community and more sharing is in everyone’s future.

Rather than retreating to the privacy of their cul-de-sac homes and turning their backs on public life, Millennials are doing the opposite:

Community-building (diversity, inclusiveness, tolerance and purposefulness) and place-making activities (public spaces, festivals, public art, transportation options, a unified brand, etc.) are fueling community pride. We see this in our research studies among young millennials in cities like Austin, Denver, Atlanta and Richmond. Most report that their cities are uniquely authentic. Moreover, they don’t want to live any place else … they want to be part of their community.

Assuredly, as the Millennials age and settle down, some will move back to the burbs. But the generational migration will be far less pronounced than in the past. The shift in preferences for urban life, with its richer array of transportation options, a deeper sharing economy and emphasis on community and place-making will drive American communities, including those in Virginia, to a more smart-growth future.


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44 responses to “Are the Millennials Really Different?”

  1. Sometimes I think we think too much in US-only terms.

    For instance, if we look at Europe or Japan and talk about Millennials and their lifestyles… is the perspective the same?

    In Europe.. people generally are active their entire lives.. riding bikes, skiing, etc.. and just don’t move to the “burbs” to have kids, etc…

    In this country, I’m not sure I by the Millennial Smartphone idea 100% because it’s well known that places like Bend, Oregon, Austin, Texas, Boise Idaho and Missoula, Montana … attract Millennials who own Subarus and enjoy an active outdoor life… kayaking..hiking.. skateboarding… skiing, etc…

    and we know that in places like Washington.. Millennials find RECREATIONAL bike trails enormously appealing – a separate thing from riding bikes to/from work.

    No one I know that Kayaks.. goes to the river hauling the kayak behind their bike… No one I know rides a bike to go skiing or hiking…

    so the Millennial “thing” lacks some important elements about the outdoor life – in my view.

    Yes.. we have become a herd of “fatties” including a good number of Millennials who prefer the sedentary life… spending their lives fingering away on the Smartphone… but as an older guy who paddles.. and hikes.. I see a lot of young people including ones carrying their babies on their backs.. or putting them in life preservers… etc.. and I’m a little skeptical of the supposed strong linkage between Millennials and “Smart Growth”.

    People leave the cities when their careers are established .. they want a family and cannot afford the size condo or house for a family that fits their budget – in a relatively safe place. The cheaper the housing the less secure.

    The young people that live out in places like Bend, Oregon and Denver, Colorado do not necessarily gravitate to “smart growth”. They are just fine living in a cheap apartment or single family home .. as long as they can ride their bike or go kayaking… etc…

  2. Tysons Engineer Avatar
    Tysons Engineer

    Millennial here (83), my career has been long established as has my wife’s and we would both rather take a massive hypothetical pay cut than move to the burbs. It is completely unappetizing to us and has none of the priorities we have. Some have said “that will change if/when you have a baby” but I sincerely disagree. I would rather have less space (many of my friends and family have tons of space they use just to store stuff anyways) than to deal with longer commutes, nothing to do, and stripmalls/franchise restaurants.

    Am I the typical? I have no idea, but I think the point is that as an aggregate there is a slightly higher trend of people like me in the millennial generation than in prior generations. That slight change in percentage equates to huge booms of growth in urban areas and major reductions in marketability in the suburbs because in housing supply and demand its a lot like titration, the change in dynamics is sudden and amplified depending on trend not on overall.

    In other words, whether 75% of people currently live in the burbs is irrelevant to home builders. All that matters is what the next 1% of people (those moving) are preferring. If that percentage is greater than 25% of that 1% then it means huge shifts in what the market is demanding.

    1. well.. TE .. tickles me…!!!!

      and he’s dead on… subdivisions and franchise restaurants.. etc, et all.

      300,000 live in the Fredericksburg/Stafford/Spotsylvania MSA.

      two million live in NoVa.

      Of course you need to add in the other exurban counties arrayed radially around NoVa, like Loudoun, Prince William, Culpeper, even Winchester and Front Royal.

      so I’d give it about a million or so in the exurban commuting counties.

      but I think TE is on to something. “Millennials” may be, in addition to a age demographic, a lifestyle Demographic .. that some folks simple do not outgrow…. they LIKE the varied and diverse urban life and consider the exurbs to be sterile places …safe for childraising perhaps but crushing on the soul – i.e. generic cookie cutter subdivisions as far as the eye can see, strip malls, franchise restaurants, decent schools, but largely devoid of much else and an absolute armpit of a commute unlike the cornucopia buffet easily available to urban area dwellers.

      I have a pet theory that people who grew up in the suburbs eventually go back to live there and people who grew up in urbanized areas.. would not go to the suburbs willingly.

      How about it TE. Did you grow up in the suburbs or the city/nearby?

      1. Tysons Engineer Avatar
        Tysons Engineer

        I grew up in Burke (fairfax county). I wouldn’t consider it necessarily a suburb or urban, its a continued transition from sub to urban. But, interestingly, when I was younger it was far more suburban and one reason I have remained is only because it is transitioning to urban. I have considered several times a move to Manhattan/DC and if the right circumstances with career were in place I’d be all for it as would the wife.

    2. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      Where do you live, Tysons Engineer?

  3. Les Schreiber Avatar
    Les Schreiber

    The real test of this theory will be when this generation has children of school age. Until urban school districts can deliver an education to prepare the the children of today’s youth I believe they will behave just as their parents and head for the ‘burbs.

    1. Tysons Engineer Avatar
      Tysons Engineer

      I don’t disagree, in fact I find it laughable that DC continues to proposed millions towards a soccer stadium, instead of really addressing schools/police.

      That being said, the more affluent people move into cities, the more those city schools statistically do better. That might be considered class warfare to some, but it is the reality.

      When people don’t have to work 2 jobs, have more time at home for child care, can afford private preschool early on and special programs, it equates to more educated children. In this country money still equals education. Its no shock then why NYC/DC schools have been on an uptrend as the populations have skyrocketed.

      If I were to live in NYC or DC I would likely do public for elementary with private tutoring, and continued on to private highschools unless dynamics were changed to the point where the public schools would be safe. It would cost more, but then again my commute cost reduction and other benefits non-monetary would outweigh that additional cost.

    2. Home run from Les. I’m active in community affairs and see more and more, mainly mothers, in Fairfax County who are concerned virtually 100% with kid-related issues – quality of schools, class size, sidewalks connecting neighborhoods with schools; neighborhood overcrowding, overcrowding of parks and fields. Many say they are new to Fairfax County, meaning, at least, they lived somewhere else prior to moving into their current home. And more and more, I see the dads coming to the same meetings. They have chosen to live in Fairfax County.

      New York is fun to visit (I went twice in 2013 for pleasure), but I sure would not accept the decline in my quality of life to live there. Likewise, 29 years ago I moved from Iowa to this area as a single guy. I settled in Arlington by choice. I didn’t want the high taxes, inefficient local government, higher crime, dirtier surroundings and being on top of my neighbors and they on top of me that comes with an urban area. Hence, I rejected D.C. (& Maryland) even before I came here to look for a place to live. After getting and staying married, I’ve moved twice (to and within McLean) and specifically rejected D.C. and Maryland both times. Upon retirement, we plan to get the hell out of Dodge, probably to some place in the Carolinas.

      1. Tysons Engineer Avatar
        Tysons Engineer

        And I’d say that pretty much sums up the difference between the generations 😛 atleast on an aggregate basis.

        1. I think so. I’ll be interested to see what my kids do when they finish college and become self-supporting. Not that I’m hopefully awaiting the end of college financing responsibilities. 🙂

  4. FreeDem Avatar

    Also a Millennial. Grew up in Southwest Virginia. I have no interest in living in suburbs like that area. I currently walk to work in DC, before that I took the Metro. Really moving toward extreme yuppie.

    I think something overlooked is where jobs are located for Millennials. I’ve had six jobs in six years, working mainly as an independent contractor in different forms. With the turnover in jobs, the downsizing of established firms, and the outsourcing of more and more to different contractors, I don’t think Millennials see a future of one big home in the suburbs with the same office park for ten years.

    Higher unemployment = more job insecurity. More job insecurity = more desirability to be in big areas where you can find the next opportunity.

    Probably also argues in favor of renting over an emphasis on buying a home.

  5. Darrell Avatar

    A sharing economy… Gad I want to puke.

    Let’s see how sharing these urban idealists are after they have played punching bag for a street smart realist that wants to OWN their iPhone.

    1. Tysons Engineer Avatar
      Tysons Engineer

      I think you might mis-understand the idea of the sharing economy. Not to say there aren’t some real granola types in the current millennial generation, but when people use “sharing economy” it really refers to pooling of a groups funds or assets to achieve something that otherwise would be impossible (not giving away your stuff).

      Instead of renting a 3br townhouse (which often is cheaper than a 2br apartment by the way) by yourself, you split it 3 ways. Instead of renting a car or hotel room from a corporation, you go p2p. P2P will be a major shift in how business occurs, atleast in the hospitality industry; just as it was to how second hand retail transformed with craigslist.

      Could that be rife with criminal possibility? Sure, but some of the bigger P2P players have systems of verification (like Uber, AirBnB, etc) so it isn’t quite the wildwest, and its not like going to an equivalent priced, den of ill-repute isn’t equally dangerous at times 😛

      1. Uncle Sam and the IRC will be one of the biggest challenges to P2P. A cab company that reports its income is not going to like competing with a virtual cab company that doesn’t report its income. P2P has a great opportunity to cheat on taxes.

        Also, the liability issues will be significant. A owns a car and is involved in sharing arrangement. B shares the car, with A’s permission, and is then involved in an accident with C. A has money and insurance; B not so much. Can C sue A? Does A’s insurance cover B?

        Pooling money or assets outside of a personal relationship is a business. Sharing is a partnership or joint venture. They need more than a handshake.

    2. ocschwar Avatar

      You do realize we’re not talking about hypotheticals here, I hope. These urban idealists are living this right now. Shared cars from Zipcar. Shared bikes from Alta and B-Cycle. And a whole community around shared random crap on Craig’s List.

      And it works.

      And yes, if you live in the city, you run the risk of your iPhone being snatched on the subway. Even then, it’s a $300 loss. Still cheaper than living in a big house with a big lawn you have to mow, miles from anything.

      1. I won’t defend the exurban sprawl lifestyle – but it’s all about family for the people that do it. They want a big house with a kitchen big enough for the family to stand around it … ditto dining area, ditto family room, ditto patio/yard.

        I speculate that these people probably grew up that way and see it as continuing that lifestyle.

        and it’s not necessarily that they want to commute. Some would gladly live in a smaller city/town area on grid streets if they could find a house they could afford in that kind of locale.

        they want to live in a detached home, not shared housing… and they drive until they can find the right combination of house and cost.

        They do very much depend on heavy-duty commuting infrastructure and co-opt existing roads from their original purpose and “re-purpose” it and in the process degrade that road for it’s original use – aka the I-95 corridor from Fredericksburg to Washington (but not unique).

        I don’t know how you make single family detached homes – less expensive in a place like NoVa. There seems to be an almost insatiable demand for it that drives the price out of reach of many.

        The people who want that kind of housing are not going to be happy in a condo or apartment UNLESS it’s got a lot of other things going for it that the house does not have AND it’s a secure place AND it has good schools.

        I think sometimes on the Smart Growth deal – we see the harm caused by the sprawl lifestyle.. it’s consumption of resources and infrastructure and we want to do “something” to “encourage” more Smart Growth – but we fail to really understand what is motivating people to do those sprawl behaviors and solutions cannot be – perceived – as efforts to penalize their housing choice preferences… and “force” them into housing the don’t like or want. At that point, govt is engaging in social engineering.

        but I compliment the various folks who have chosen to comment on the thread and hope they stick around .. Jim does an excellent job writing on relevant issues.. as they play out in Va and unlike some blogs, people are polite even if they get passionate and Ad Hominems and flame wars are very, very rare.

        1. FreeDem Avatar

          On the comment about a living area large enough to fit the family around, I wonder how you tie this into declining fertility rates.

          That would be another factor too, right?

          1. perhaps… but it would show up in existing stats also.

            so… are you saying that people who prefer urban locales have less/fewer kids maybe?

            if the reverse is true and people who want more kids need bigger affordable living space then “sprawl” is much, much more than a “I just wanna live in the exurbs” …. “problem”, eh?

            that’s why I say that the folks who advocate for Smart Growth need to understand WHY people “sprawl” more than they now seem to know… and that supporting policies that penalize it without understanding the forces that drive it may undermine support for Smart growth “policies” even as most say they support the “idea” of Smart Growth – but rebel in implementation.

            so… do people who live (and stay) in urban locales have less kids?

  6. Re: Sharing economy…….

    I think this phenomenon is largely due to the fact that many millennials are broke. Younger workers simply don’t make the same as our parents did and must do more with less.

    College loans, stagnant wages and unstable careers will define the economic choices of GenX and Millennials for a long time to come, we just haven’t admitted that yet as a group.

  7. FreeDem Avatar

    Amen to that RBV.

    There’s an automatic assumption that the burbs have to be cheaper than the city, but that’s not always the case when you consider transportation costs. And there’s also quality of life. If I’m on the edge of being broke, do I want to try to maximize my enjoyment of life by spending more time commuting, or cutting that down so I can at the very least sleep more?

  8. here’s the BLS unemployment data:

    http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea10.htm

    the most amazing thing (at least to me) is that above 25, it’s somewhere around
    5%-6%… and but at the younger ages, it’s horrific and when factored in to the overall – it drags it down a lot.

    but questions to FreeDem and and RBV – married with kids?

  9. FreeDem Avatar

    Engaged, living with spouse to be.

    But here’s my question.

    Set aside the lower income, lower educational attainment Millennials who are having children earlier, often outside of marriage, because they don’t represent the higher earners with the disposable income to drive market forces. They are more likely to stay in their established homes, closer to families, they aren’t the new kids moving into the up and coming gentrified neighborhoods. For many, many, metropolitan areas I believe the traditional suburban sprawl approach will continue because they can “afford” to use land so wastefully, and the average commuter’s salary is so low that a 40 to 60 minute commute a day is manageable. Time is money!

    But your higher educational attainment Millennials are still facing crushing college debt, a very hostile job market, and on top of that long-term job insecurity. They are also being shamed for not putting in 5% or 10% into retirement ASAP. They are feeling squeezed from all sides. And these are the lucky ones who have gone to college and have a lifetime of opportunity ahead of them! Hah!

    Economically, this all delays family formation, and reduces overall family size.

    The assumption that folks marry to the suburbs when they have kids rests on the assumption that you can financially move out to the suburbs to have kids. Want to figure out how to budget for a down payment while paying off student loans and saving for retirement?

    And, again, moving out to some types of suburbs comes with exposed danger to the downside of job insecurity. After ten years of hopping from job to job, project to project, what makes a Millennial say at 31, alright, I’ve found the job that will last me for the next ten years, time for the suburbs, let’s buy a home!

    At the very least it favors closer in, more diverse suburbs like Fairfax over a Stafford or Fauquier. Look at the population projects for Virginia, it’s Fauquier, not Fairfax, that’s projected to grow at a higher percent to 2020. That’s a very questionable assumption on my part.

    “Drive until you qualify?” is a busted myth, but if Millennials are having steeper financial challenges, that means they are driven further and further out into the suburbs. But at that point, transportation time and costs flip the affordability equation. The shift is that Millennials seem to value their time more, because with the explosion of technology there are more things we could be doing, more social media, more people to talk to, more YouTube to watch. Opportunity costs! The big surprise here could be driverless cars, but I still think it’s until the 2030s until we see them roll out big. That’s the next generation.

    The spouse to be has some telework opportunities. I unfortunately do not, but I’m exploring career opportunities that may open that up down the line. Telework can help change the approach to housing, and it’s going to be another big trend (before driverless cars), but you’re left trying to figure out what people are looking at in a home aside from work. I know a lot of older, more traditional suburbanites favored “privacy” and “space,” which I think are concepts increasingly foreign to today’s social media driven generation. If I have four walls, don’t I have “privacy?” What good is two acres of trees?

    For my fiancée and I, we’ve talked about Southern Fairfax if we moved out to the suburbs if teleworking was a significant choice for both of us (so around 2020), but we would like to see more dense settlement and an expansion of the Yellow line, or some other transit option into DC. Although the VRE could work too, at least for work related travel (but still not ideal).

    1. The quality of the local elementary school will be a key driver in where married or “permanently” partnered Millenials with children live. A lot of people make otherwise unacceptable commutes for the benefit of their kids’ educations.

      1. FreeDem Avatar

        On the quality of schools, I think this is another under-discussed aspect of the suburbs. We’ve already seen suburban poverty start to rise, I think the low-wage service workers of the future will continue to be driven out into the suburbs. This is going to impact the desirability of a lot of schools.

        Back in the day, when white flight was driving higher incomes out of urban areas, you commuted for your kids’ education. But today there’s a very different calculus to be made.

        1. FreeDem Avatar

          For example, from both this (http://www.northernvirginiamag.com/best-elementary-schools-public/) and this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/education/vafull/va.html) the best public elementary schools tend to be in Arlington and Fairfax. I’m not impressed at all by any of the Fauquier, Prince William or Stafford schools.

          You can think of Fairfax as the quintessential suburban community, but it’s rapidly changing. Silver Line, remaking Tyson’s Corner, more plans for denser development, other metro and transit expansion.

          1. Tysons will develop into an urban center over time. But its cost structure is such that it will be very expensive. I think the demographics will be different from the R-B corridor in Arlington. Tysons will be older and wealthier. (A couple years ago, JBG managers stated that, for stick built apartments near the Sheraton, it needed rents around $2500-2600 for an 800-sq. ft. apartment.) There is some provision for workforce housing (police, teachers, some retail employees) but there will be few low-income people living in Tysons. I can see younger people with good jobs sharing residences in Tysons, but the amenities will be much different than those in the R-B corridor.

            Fairfax County does expect more crime in Tysons as it has added 9 new police positions for Tysons even without significant new development. I think Metro expansion will be slow in coming. First, the Obama administration has cut back on funding for heavy rail on the ground it is not very cost-effective. Second, the experience of MWAA and its backers screwing DTR drivers is not going to incentivize more costly expansions. Third, any significant expansion of rail is likely to trigger a need for one or more new Potomac crossing costing $5 billion plus.

          2. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            “You can think of Fairfax as the quintessential suburban community, but it’s rapidly changing. Silver Line, remaking Tyson’s Corner, more plans for denser development, other metro and transit expansion.”.

            BINGO!

            Fairfax County is far more urban than the so-called City of Richmond.

            Now, this presents a real problem to people like Jim Bacon. Jim wants to be a Richmond booster and uses anti-suburban rhetoric to disparage Northern Virginia. However, the population concentrations and densities just don’t support his arguments.

            The future of Virginia is urban living in Arlington, Fairfax County and Alexandria with suburban and rural living elsewhere.

            If Jim Bacon really wants to move to an urban locale inside the Commonwealth he’ll need to relocate to Northern Virginia.

            The human settlement pattern for “core NoVa” needs to be about 250 sq mi at a density of 7,500 per sq mi. Or, about 2M people in a single, unified city.

            If you ever want to see a traditionalist Richmonder pee his pants – suggest a future Virginia with America’s fifth largest city as a single municipal entity in NoVa!

          3. Don, Welcome back from vacation. I hope you caught a lot of fish.

            No, I’m not anti-suburban, nor am I anti-Northern Virginia. I’m anti “suburban sprawl” (with sprawl being defined as the scattered, low-density, auto-centric pattern of development that has predominated since World War II). Yes, I think that “sprawl” has hurt those parts of Northern Virginia most afflicted by it. Given the high praise that I lavish on Arlington County, which I see as an exemplar for the state, even you would have to concede that my criticisms are directed at the human settlement patterns, not the Northern Virginia region (in vivid contrast to, say, the way you exhibit prejudice against all things Richmond!).

            Yes, I am a Richmond booster in the sense that I find much here to enjoy and I want to see the region prosper — but I am no fan of its human settlement patterns. Indeed, by your definition, I “disparage” Richmond because I routinely point out the fact that the region has sprawled more than any other part of the state. We have many of the same ills as Northern Virginia, all self inflicted. It is the human settlement patterns that I decry, not the people or the region.

            Indeed, I am guilty of anything, it is of applying the same principles with icy detachment to all parts of Virginia!

        2. I agree. Not every suburban school is good. Fairfax County has parents engaged in fraud (falsifying residence and parental/guardianship information) to get their kids in different elementary schools than they are assigned by residence. And there are some good big city schools. But the level of featherbedding and general corruption found in many big city school systems is not anywhere as strong in most suburban districts. I don’t think many people who could make choices would chose to educate their children from K-12 in the D.C. Public Schools, for example.

          Also, look at a map of attendance boundaries for Fairfax County. There are some strange fingers for some schools. I’ve been told deals were made between the County and builders to include X subdivision in Scho0l A’s attendance area. It could well be true.

    2. Thanks FreeDem for your views and perspectives.

      Mine is from an exurb where we grew fro 15K to 130K and about 40% of our workforce commutes to NoVa/DC.

      Most of them live..married with kids.. in very typical cul-de-sac’ed subdivisions in homes that cost 200-300K here but would cost 700K and up in NoVa.

      in the Fredericksburg Area, the city and two counties, we have about 300K people. To our west are other exurban commuter counties like Orange, Culpeper, Rappahannock, Clark, and Loudoun all with commuters to NoVa.

      2 million live in NoVa. It’s my guess that about a million live in the exurban commuting counties that ring NoVa.

      We probably have very few Millennials who commute.. but I could be wrong. But after..say 10 years .. when folks are getting into their 30’s and 40’s what do former Millennials do?

      In the Washington DC area, we may not have the typical workforce that would contain typical Millennials because the Federal Govt drives the workforce pool… even the private companies that usually are connected in some way to providing goods and services to the government agencies.

      A more typical Millineal demographic probably would be found in places that donj’t have the massive presence that the govt has in this area.

      1. FreeDem Avatar

        Good point on the DC metro area not being typical. But is Virginia having much success in attracting Millenials outside of the DC area?

  10. […] Are the Millennials Really Different? Bacon’s Rebellion – January 2, 2014 In the “smart growth” view, Millennials are a different breed. […]

  11. mbaldwin Avatar

    Good for those of us — assuming more than just me — born in the Depression era (not sure what we’re called) to read the sensible comments from actual Millenials! The sustained urban life does indeed depend on decent schools, which, with children, will surely drive living choices.
    Two other perspectives: my Millenial daughter in Truckee, CA lives simply like her comrade Millenials to enjoy skiing and outdoor life, albeit while doing clinical psychology. They’ve no interest in the burbs or the urbs. Then we have young folks around here in rural Loudoun seeking ways to farm, which isn’t easy. But refreshing priorities. Now if they’d all just read newspapers I’d be happier.

  12. […] Are the Millennials Really Different? Bacon’s Rebellion – January 2, 2014 In the “smart growth” view, Millennials are a different breed. […]

  13. FreeDem;

    “There’s an automatic assumption that the burbs have to be cheaper than the city…..”

    This is true until you get a calculator, which it sounds like you have already done. It really comes down to whether you would rather buy gas for a car or pay higher rent to live closer to public transportation. At the end of the day, because of stagnant wages and increasing costs for everything else, you’re going to feel the pinch no matter which one you choose. It really is a lifestyle choice with pro’s and con’s for each.

    Re: Stay-At-Home-Millennial’s versus the Go-To-College-Millennial’s. To make a long story short, it’s too early in the game to say which road was better.

    However, I think it will be very, very hard to justify taking on significant amounts of debt to obtain a college degree. When all of these folks with $80k+ (or more) in college debt wake up one day 20 years from now (or sooner) and realize they still owe someone $40k or $50k, I am not sure what’s going to happen. It won’t be pretty.

    Not sure how a college education is funded in other countries, but I would have to assume the U.S. is at the higher end of the scale, particularly when you include the total cost (principal + interest).

    Oh, about me – Mid 30’s, no-kids, graduated college in 2000 (class of the century!), probably had 8 or 9 jobs in 14 years. Been at the one I have now for 6 years and have a (legit) side business. It’s been a wild ride so far.

  14. RBV – 8 or 9 jobs.

    would I be too nosy if I asked how you deal with health insurance?

  15. All the folks who have responded to this subject… your age, demographic and lifestyle would be an important asset in comments… as it is largely lacking and is needed….

    we have Salz from Charlottesville and Darrell from Tidewater/Hampton and a farmer MBALDWIN.. and Breckinridge ( a Henrico guy?)… etc…

    so you new guys.. stick around and add your views!!!!

    1. FreeDem Avatar

      I have lived and/or worked in:

      Roanoke (suburbs)
      Richmond (suburbs)
      Williamsburg (college)
      Danville
      Charlottesville
      Vienna (Northern Virginia, sadly not Austria)
      DC

      With family I visit regularly in Tidewater, both north and south of the James.

      Plus half a dozen other cities and towns in the Southeast United States ranging from Mississippi to North Carolina.

  16. youngincleveland Avatar
    youngincleveland

    The demographic trend of people moving back into cities is THE most important trend in transportation politics today. It doesn’t matter whether MOST people will continue to choose the suburbs, what matters is that many MORE people are choosing cities than before. As Tyson’s Engineer said above, regarding people wanting to move into cities: “the point is that as an aggregate there is a slightly higher trend of people like me in the millennial generation than in prior generations. That slight change in percentage equates to huge booms of growth in urban areas and major reductions in marketability in the suburbs.” In the last several decades, the perception has been that “no one wants to live in the city.” Now, in almost every city including small, Midwestern cities, young people are starting to live downtown. This trend completely changes the conversation on issues like public transportation vs highway expansion. For example, it is only possible for state and federal legislators to ignore cities when the perception is that they are full of disenfranchised populations…as that perception changes, the unique needs of cities will become more politically visible.

    Speaking of those unique needs, the shifting growth trends back into the cities also changes the needs of cities. For the last several decades, cities tried to compete with suburbs by becoming more suburban (clearing out buildings for parking lots, building urban malls, etc). As the tide turns to cities competing with other CITIES for young people, they will focus more on issues of urban livability, again driving a surge of development in public transportation, urban green space, etc…anything that makes cities a nicer place to live.

    Three important points:
    -A major reason that Millenials want to stay in cities, which I don’t see discussed enough, is this: unlike our parents, most of us are not married until our late 20’s or early 30’s. When you are young and unmarried, you want to be around other young people so you have a chance of meeting someone. You don’t want to be stuck in the suburbs on your couch with no other young people around. There is a whole new post-college, pre-marriage phase of life that has become the standard, and that phase of life is tailor-made for city living.

    -Many people who want to live in cities DO feel that they need to move to the suburbs when they have kids. But again, they feel that they HAVE TO…not that they WANT TO. Eventually, urban school options will improve to the point where they will have a choice of staying vs leaving. One way it could happen is with more private schools. Another is that as more middle class people who can’t afford private schools make the choice to stay and end up keeping their kids in public school, they improve the numbers to the point where more families feel like urban public schools are a viable option.

    -Millenials know what it’s like to live in the suburbs, they grew up there…and they don’t want to go back. That should concern people who believe that the suburbs will stay dominant about the quality of the product the suburbs offer, if the people who are most familiar with it are rejecting it. Put another way, if the suburbs were so great, how come the people who grew up there don’t want to go back?

    It is all demographics…it has nothing to do with “cities are good” vs “cities are bad”…it’s just that for the last 50 years everyone has wanted to live in the suburbs and now that’s changing. And that will change everything.

    30 years old, moved to Cleveland for work and chose to live in the city in a walkable neighborhood.

    1. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      youngincleveland … please provide your definition of “city”.

  17. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    As far as the so-called “smart phone revolution”. Spare me. The “smart phone revolution” is no more than a continuation of Moore’s Law. It follows the computing revolution, the minicomputer revolution, the client server revolution, the PC revolution, the cell phone revolution, the internet revolution and is concurrent with the cloud revolution.

    At some point everything can’t be a revolution.

    Moore’s Law, properly extrapolated, calls for ubiquitous computing to increase. To claim that one aspect of this (the “smart phone revolution”) will cause people to move back into urban locales represents logic so elastic as to make Stretch Armstrong blush.

    I can easily argue that increasingly ubiquitous computing will make low density lifestyles more efficient, more quickly than high density lifestyles.

    Why are all the cabs in high density “cities”? Because their sales protocol is to drive around until somebody steps out from the curb and holds their hand in the air. That sales protocol only works at scale in high density areas. Now, add ubiquitous computing. The cabbie doesn’t have to visibly observe potential customers and customers don’t need eye contact with cabs. Guess what? Cabs just became more economically viable in the so-called suburbs!

    Millennial generation folks want to have 9 jobs in 14 years and so they have to live in the high density “city” so they can keep finding new jobs. OK. Doesn’t effective ubiquitous computing make the need for employee physical co-location less critical? So, isn’t improving technology something that actually will work against city living?

    Young, two income couples without kids like to live in walkable areas. Of course they do. They have relatively high disposable income (whether they realize that or not) and have none of the obligations that come with children. When I was 28 and living in Manhattan it was a blast. Then I got married. Then I had a kid. Then lots of kids. Things change. Who is going to take Junior to soccer practice after school? Let’s say Junior is six. Are you going to get him a Metro ticket and send him on his merry way? Hire a nanny? Have one spouse stop working or take a reduced time commitment job? Oh uh – so much for the disposable income that made walking to restaurants every night so much fun. Where will Junior sleep? In Mom and Dad’s bedroom? Well, that will help ensure that Junior doesn’t have any younger siblings I guess. Oh, Junior needs his own room? Well, so much for that really cool one bedroom loft in the walkable community.

    Things change. The Baby Boomers’ babies are a population bulge in and of themselves. They are presently in the “high disposable income, independent adult stage of life”. That creates some interesting effects. But … they will get older. They will get married. They will have kids. They will need to tradeoff the needs of their children for their own wants and desires.

    This is a story as old as humanity itself.

  18. Darrell Avatar

    I was young in Cleveland once, although I was a summer time resident. Things were a blast. Going to see the Beatles, riding the bus all over, catching the Indians games for free, taking Boy’s Club trips to radio WIXY 1260 sponsored events. Then a funny thing happened. All hell started breaking loose, the Bohemian neighbors joined the emigration to Parma and beyond, jobs disappeared, and our cozy little West Side hideaway, with scenic views of the Terminal Tower across the Flats, turned into a rat infested dump. Maybe the Millennials can turn things around. I’d really like to believe that. History and billions of dollars wasted says it’s easier to run than to stay.

  19. youngincleveland Avatar
    youngincleveland

    Darrell:
    Maybe it’ll happen again. All I can say is that young people keep having to move to Cleveland for work and more and more they choose to live downtown. Occupancy rates downtown are over 90 percent and several new apartment developments either opened or were announced this year. The first new office building in 20 years was built on the riverfront. This trend of a couple thousand extra people choosing to live downtown is transforming the development landscape, which will provide the kind of positive reinforcement for that trend to continue.

    DJRippert:
    A city is a place with mostly urban environments. Urban environments do not have to be in a city. Not everyone in my generation chooses a city…but more people are making that choice than they used to, and that trend is growing into a seismic shift in the development landscape. This wave of young people will eventually grow older and many will choose to leave the city for more space. But some will not. And the next wave of young people will find a country filled with redeveloped, attractive, enjoyable downtowns in which to live out their pre-marriage 20’s.

  20. I end up with two questions out of this after hearing from several self-identified Millennials (and an opinion of course):

    1. – Do people in general have less kids in urban environments?

    2. – What can we say about some folks who prefer urban locales their entire
    lives and others who leave for less urbanized locales – with less amenities?

    It seems like some folks who prefer urban locales view non-urban locales as “sterile” but my experience is that some folks who move to non-urban locales find proximity to a more natural world .. trees, birds, gardens, fruit trees… etc.. more to their liking.

    For myself.. I have pretty much always found cities to be dirty and not particularly safe – that there are pockets of safe places and there are definitely pockets of places you do not want to be especially at night.

    Out in cul-de-saced suburbia if bad guys showed up one night.. they’d be outnumbered and outgunned even before 911 was called.. In an urban area, people hide in their tripled-locked doors apartments/condos when bad guys are roaming around.

    If a bad guy comes into my house in the woods, he’s going to have to figure out what to do with the business end of a 12-gauge pump before he can get to his reason for coming into a place that is not his in the first place.

    and I do not have to worry about him hanging around the neighborhood either.. he’ll be confronted by one of more residents in short order.

    So people in urban locales take these kinds of threats either for granted or with a grain of salt but when I visit a place – like Shocoe Slip, I can see just a few blocks away are places you do not want to be at night.

    that kind of thing bothers me… a lot…. but apparently urban dwellers accept this … either they know where to NOT live and/or they know where NOT to be especially at night.

    okay.. so now the urban dwellers can poo poo me…

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