Another Perspective on Youngkin Education Policy

Aimee Rogstad Guidera, Virginia Secretary of Education

by Dick Hall-Sizemore

After thinking about this a little more and doing some poking around on the Internet, I want to take issue with some of what Virginia Secretary of Education Aimee Rogstad Guidera said at an AEI forum, as reported on Bacon’s Rebellion yesterday.  The goals are sound, but I am not so sure about the approach this administration seems to be taking.

In order to draw a contrast with the previous administration, she painted a picture of Virginia education that is worse than it is.

On the 4th Grade reading test for the NAEP, 38 percent of Virginia students scored proficient or above.  That was above the national average of 34 percent.  The Commonwealth’s score ranked 8th in the nation.  It is true that Virginia scores are lower than they were in 2015.  In that year, 43 percent of the 4th graders scored at proficiency or higher and the state was tied for 4th in the country.  However, scores across the country have been falling as well.  In 2015, Massachusetts was the highest ranked state with 50 percent of 4th graders scoring proficient or better.  In 2019, Massachusetts was still the highest ranked state, but its percentage of 4th graders scoring proficient or better slipped to 45 percent.  Nevertheless, Virginia did decline in absolute terms, from 43 percent to 38 percent, and in relative terms, from 4th place to 8th place.   There is work that needs to be done.  (For NAEP data, see here for 2015 and here for 2019.)

One hopeful sign was the rise of Wyoming to 3rd place in 2019, with 41 percent of its 4th graders testing at the proficiency level or better.  Youngkin has recruited the Wyoming Superintendent of Public Instruction, Jillian Balow, to come to

Jillian Balow, Virginia Superintendent of Public Instruction

Virginia to serve in the same role here.  It is hoped that she can employ in Virginia some of the practices she used in Wyoming to improve that state’s standing. (That is, unless she decides to flee back to Wyoming after experiencing the heat and humidity of August in Richmond!)

Regarding the NAEP scores, Guidera engaged in some rhetoric that was misleading.  She referred to the “honesty gap” between Virginia’s NAEP score of 38 percent of 4th graders scoring proficient or above and 75 percent of 4th graders meeting Virginia’s SOL “proficiency” standards.  This is not my area, but from the reading I have done, the SOL and NAEP proficiency standards are not comparable.  The SOLs are meant to determine whether a student is reading at grade level.  The NAEP “proficiency” score is much above grade level.  Although Guidera was making a false comparison, the SOL result showing a quarter of 4th graders reading below grade level is certainly concerning.

Guidera is right in saying that the statewide averages “mask the stark disparities in the quality of education and in the results that we are getting across the Commonwealth” and that “we are not serving all students well.”  Over the last year or so, that has been the message coming from Bacon’s Rebellion, with James Sherlock, in particular, using data to point out learning deficits in areas with low-income students, even in some high-income counties.

What to do?  Guidera is not very specific on how the Youngkin administration intends to address those disparities.  She does refer to the Literacy Act, just enacted this year.  This legislation is intended to embrace the “science of reading” in training teachers and implementing reading programs in the state.  It needs to be kept in mind that this is a long-term project.  The state of Mississippi gained national notice for its efforts in this area, but it was a multi-year effort.

The “science of reading” is a very alluring concept.  However, as a prominent Virginia educator (and a frequent commentator on this blog and one whom several BR readers had advocated be appointed state superintendent), Matt Hurt has pointed out that educators have been arguing about the “science of reading” for decades and will probably continue to argue about it.  He has provided graphs showing that Virginia students compare very well, and in some cases are higher, than students in states that have embraced the “science of reading.”

He noted the recent downtown in reading scores, but pointed out that methods of teaching reading had not changed from the times that the scores were higher.  Instead, he posited that recent changes in Department of Education (DOE) policies such as the emphasis on performance-based assessments and the implementation of a growth measure in the accreditation standard may have sent the wrong messages to administrators and teachers.  These are policies that the Youngkin administration may want to examine.

Some on this blog probably do not want to hear this, but the decline in reading scores was not a problem that went unnoticed or ignored by the Northam administration.  James Lane, the Superintendent of Public Instruction under Northam, expressed great concern about the turndown in reading scores in 2019 and said DOE would be “working with districts that saw reading scores increase to identify what’s working as a model for other districts.”  The administration sponsored a statewide summit in early 2020 to discuss with educators how to improve the reading levels of young students.  Then COVID hit, schools closed, and attention was on how to survive after that.

Matt Hurt had basically the same advice earlier this year:  in those areas in which students are doing well, leave them alone, and concentrate on those areas that are not doing so well.  That seems to be common sense.  Rather than trying to impose another new program on teachers and schools, it might be better for DOE to figure out what areas like the Comprehensive Instructional Program are doing right, leave them alone, and try to help those divisions and schools in which students are struggling to implement those approaches, attitudes, and policies that have proved successful elsewhere.  Going at it that way would improve the odds for progress and create less disruption in the whole system.


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47 responses to “Another Perspective on Youngkin Education Policy”

  1. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    I think it would be helpful to see the resources from that summit.
    I found this “link” announcing the summit (you have to download a Word doc!) with no other live links. But I do notice one “equity” component.
    https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=000783915327965917031:ydjbl4xbjqo&q=https://www.doe.virginia.gov/news/news_releases/2020/2-20-20-reading-summit.docx&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj5u8fY-MX3AhXgqXIEHXKoCX4QFnoECAEQAg&usg=AOvVaw0ij491N1Y1exIrXdZZFJKb

    I think the ultimate, true answer is greater parental involvement. And this is best done in a two parent family. My 5 kids all could read before entering school, usually around 4. Word sight and working through tough words and understanding outlaw words worked for 4 of them. Hooked on phonics did it in a week for the other. This is not unlike sex ed. Many assumed the “birds and bees” in middle school was kept to just the facts. Now I’m not so sure about back then and certainly know that is not the case now.

    So, terror of terror, parents have to get involved – at the School Board level and with each child. Different children learn differently.
    Finally, from my dinosaur days…the PTA used to be a real organization where parents showed up and asked questions. My observation from 1992-2020 public schools is the PTA is now totally captive to the teachers and just mostly a fundraising thing…
    It seems all institutions experience this sort of capture and normal citizens have to answer the call and get involved…

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      You are absolutely correct. Parental involvement is immensely important. If parents are not able, for whatever reason, to teach their children to read, then they need to encourage them to go to school and work hard and encourage them. Unfortunately, some kids don’t have that parental help, push, or encouragement.

      1. walter smith Avatar
        walter smith

        This is getting scary. Troll and I agreed on something. Nancy and JAB agreed on something. And now you and me… but that has happened before.
        We spend more than enough money to teach exceptionally well. But we do not spend it well because we just “assume” all is going well. The business world has much to recommend here. “Inspect what you expect.” Outside auditors… When the people reporting on how they are doing are within the organization…perhaps that is not the best. Parents should be the informal auditors (real auditors do the numbers) and MONITOR closely (NOT do the homework for the child!).

        1. Lefty665 Avatar
          Lefty665

          You get what you inspect, not what you expect.

          We have the inspection – Only 38% of Virginia’s 4th graders are proficient readers. That would fail every quality assurance program I was ever part of. No customer I ever met would accept 38% good quality product.

          I try not to should on myself. The fact is that many Virginia kids come from poor, often chaotic, homes. They are often one parent, mostly young women, who have not themselves learned to read well. Strong parental support for reading is not a hallmark of those homes, nor is that easily changed.

          Those are the kids Virginia needs to work hardest to teach. Teaching those hard to reach kids is how Virginia breaks the cycle of failure. It will not be easy, cheap or quick, but that is the path out of our current morass. The kids of Virginia, and the state’s future deserve no less.

          Kids like yours and mine coming from 2 parent, well off homes where reading well is part of the fabric of daily living undoubtedly make up much of the 38% who are proficient. They are not the problem. It is the other almost 2/3 of the kids we and our schools are failing.

          My family had the additional advantage of numeracy. We could count and had 2 kids.

  2. Kathleen Smith Avatar
    Kathleen Smith

    I agree totally. Unfortunately, to get Charter school legislation passed, the current administration has set about making public schools look bad. To be 9th in the nation is not like being 49th. We do a good job of educating most kids. I am an advocate of Charter schools for kids who the system is failing to teach, they need a different approach. But the whole system doesn’t have to look bad.

    1. vicnicholls Avatar
      vicnicholls

      Enough of it looks bad, that is what matters. It will only get bleaker with teacher unions and collective bargaining.

      1. John Martin Avatar
        John Martin

        bullshit

      2. John Martin Avatar
        John Martin

        bullshit

  3. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    The points Dick makes early on in his post are dead on correct. Virginia ranks high on NAEP. Yes scores have dipped a little but not just Virginia – many states including ones like Massachusetts considered tops.

    Youngkin and Guidera are not being entirely honest about their narrative and they are short on specifics as to what to do.

    Beyond that, they seem to be talking a state-led top-down approach – which would be a massive undertaking and no details as to how this would be done.

  4. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    On charter schools – if we actually knew for a fact that most all Charter schools actually did produce better results on SOLS and NAEP – it would not be hard to justify them.

    Instead, what we have is almost zero real data much less data that can be compared and validated. It’s mostly claims from advocates.

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      The data are there, Larry. You have proven immune to it.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Actually, I support Charters with the proviso:

        1. – that we test the same way we do at public schools so we can ascertain that they ARE better.

        2.- That we prioritize the kids that are in most need – that are economically disadvantaged, one-parent, low-income from low-performing schools.

        If we do 1. and 2. and Charters prove superior, I’m all in – in favor.

        can’t get any better than that… in terms of support.

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Charters are public schools and are tested the same way as all others. The Charter Management Organizations (CMOs) that I have recommended recruiting into Virginia specialize in poor kids and take all comers by lottery.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I have read your tomes but I see little real evidence and data. It’s basically beliefs IMHO.

            As I’ve said many times. I support Charters if they actually prioritize the kids in poor performing schools and test in such a way that we can compare their performance to the existing public schools.

            I see no such proposal from advocates of Charters in Virginia. In fact, I see the opposite – Charters not restricted to the kids claimed to need them much less promises to provide SOL/standardized testing to demonstrate their effectiveness.

            When I see real proposals like lotteries that target the kids they claim will be served and testing results I’ll be on board.

            I actually do not have a problem with competition for the public schools. But I also don’t have a problem recognizing a pig in a poke pushed by cynics.

          2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            You are absolutely impervious to facts that do not fit your mental image. I am that advocate that you ask for. But we are done here.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            i would use that same description to apply to you. I’ve never heard from you to advocate charters in Virginia to serve primarily the economically disadvantaged AND to do standardized testing that are SOLs and/or comparable to public schools. You also do not say what happens to kids who wash out of Charters because their parents cannot or willnot do what they are required to do in Success Academics. Your problem here is that you do not like criticism – legitimate criticism IMHO so you play this game of responding to something then say you’re “done” and run away – again.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            If I’m “impervious” to facts, I’m not sure what you are but way worse IMHO in that your beliefs seem dogmatic and immune to facts also to be honest.

            Your sole “fact” seems to be one set of Charters – the Success Academies and few if any other charters even as you then claim that Charters are superior overall and that Virgina should have charters “like” Success without really advocating mandatory admittance only for economically disadvantaged AND SOL testing so that we actually KNOW that Charters in Va WoUld Be better!

            Putting Charters in Virginia sans these requirements would IMHO be implementing de-facto tax-payer funded private schools that actually discourage attendance by low income and would actually not provide transparent academic results.

            That’s why there is opposition Put the requirements on them and you’ll get support. Don’t be claiming Charters are better than refuse to require standards for enrollment and academic transpareny.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Sherlock – nope. you have some anecdotal evidence for some schools like success. You do not have and have never provided systematic data for standardized tests for all Charter Schools such that they can be compared to public schools on an apple-to-apple basis.

        It’s simply not there. If it actually were, the evidence would be compelling if it actually showed superior results.

        Give me some real evidence beyond blind beliefs.

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Charters are public schools. They are tested like every other public school. I have provided evidence of the superior results offered by the best CMOs here for years.

          It runs 47 schools in New York City educates more than 17,000 students. Success Academy had 17,700 applicants for 3,288 available seats in 2018-19, which resulted in a wait list of more than 14,000 families for the that school year. Success Academy schools in New York take the Regents Exams. If it were a separate New York State school district, it would be the highest rated school district in the state based on Regents Exams results. No existing school district is even close. 94% of their students are minority and 82% are economically disadvantaged.

          Its student population would make it the 15th largest school division in Virginia (out of 132) and it would have the poorest student population in the state.

          Need any more evidence?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I’m not seeing results. I see claims of results but not actual results. Until I see real results I chalk it up to just more conservative mythology.

            As I’ve said before. Show me an actual proposal in Virginia that specifically targets the demographic claimed to be served AND true SOL testing so we actually KNOW they do work on a true apple-to-apple basis and I’m on board.

            Most of these kids need special education services. They do not learn like kids of well-educated parents learn.

            Some public schools do well with them while others do not.

            Henrico is a good example. They have some of the best schools in Va and some of the worst. I’m totally in favor of Charters specifically to serve those kids in those low-performing schools – as long as we hold them accountable for their performance.

            That’s a ‘conservative” ethic!

            interesting reading:
            https://www.the74million.org/article/whitmire-both-fans-and-critics-of-success-academys-remarkable-results-will-find-something-to-like-in-pondiscios-new-book-but-dont-use-it-to-judge-all-charter-schools/

            https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/books/review/how-the-other-half-learns-robert-pondiscio.html

  5. Lefty665 Avatar
    Lefty665

    What a sad commentary on both Virginia and the country, 38% of 4th graders proficient in reading and that gets us 8th place. That is an utter disgrace. Wonder what the rate for the Chinese is?

    Make no mistake, the SOLs are a joke and always have been. That the SOL proficiency rate is twice that of the national standards tells us every thing we need to know, SOLs are garbage.

    The results of the “science” have also been clear for a long time. Phonics are where it is at.

    Virginia cannot even hope for success for its citizens until it teaches all its kids to read, and to read proficiently, The first step towards getting there is recognizing the problem. 38% proficiency is a big red flag. Approaching 2/3 of Virginia’s kids cannot read well. That is a disgrace.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      As I pointed out, NAEP “proficiency” is not the same as reading at grade level. It is really reading at beyond-grade level. I agree with you about the importance of teaching phonics.

      1. Lefty665 Avatar
        Lefty665

        https://www.nagb.gov/naep/NAEP-achievement-levels.html

        “The NAEP Proficient achievement level is a benchmark for solid academic performance:”

        I suppose that is too much to expect of more than a few of Virginia’s ignorant kids.

        My concern is that we are not likely to get earnest about solving the problem until we acknowledge that there is a problem. SOLs hide that there is a problem.

        I expect we’ve got more areas of agreement on education than disagreement.

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      38% reading above or at level really ain’t so bad if’n you consider “normal” would be 50%, eh?

      1. Lefty665 Avatar
        Lefty665

        Don’t think so. We would like 100% to be proficient (normal) at a life skill necessary for thriving. We won’t get there, but 38% is profound failure.

        Substitute sight for reading. What would we think if that was taught and only 38% could see proficiently, but Virginia was pleased that 75% could achieve the SOL for successful sight by telling day from night?

        We are leaving tons of kids, both in Virginia and nationally, without the basic tool they need to have the opportunity to thrive and have constructive lives.

        We’ve spent the better part of the last 50 years throwing money at this and not figuring it out. For everyone’s good we’ve got to do far better. Illiteracrocy is lurking, and it is gaining.

  6. Ronnie Chappell Avatar
    Ronnie Chappell

    One last observation about dismal SOL and NAEP scores. My guess is that in the upper grades they are largely the product of repeatedly promoting kids who have failed to master basic math and reading skills. The scores would look very different if kids who failed to achieve “proficiency” were held back until they did or were shunted into remedial classes focused on bringing them up to speed.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      There is no question that the scores for older kids reflect their mastery (or not) of basic math and reading skills. I agree that students should not be “promoted” or allowed to advance to a higher grade until they have demonstrated at least a basic understanding . But, the schools should not wait until the end of the year to “hold them back”. Ideally, those having problems would be identified early in the year and provided additional instruction.

      Going back to your earlier question. It comes down to definitions. For one test, “proficient” is defined differently than it is for another test. One example: When I was in graduate school, one of the requirements was that I demonstrate “proficiency” in a foreign language. I had taken two years of French as an undergraduate, so I took the standardized French exam. I passed by the narrowest margin possible. Therefore, I was proficient in French! (It is a good thing I did not have to engage in a conservation to demonstrate my “proficiency”!) The point is, “proficient” for the NAEP means something different that “proficient” for the SOL. Perhaps the “proficiency” level for the SOL is too low. I don’t know.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      The SOLs and NAEP both define proficiency differently but similarly. If you want to add others, like PISA (for international) or common core ( another US). then one could argue differences perhaps but the larger point is to be able to measure the results of a given academic program – in this case, namely the school systems in Va.

      the SOLs beyond the tests also specify the curriculum and what elements are to be taught.

      what they don’t do is SOL testing each grade much less several times within each grade during the year. The teacher with guidance does their own form of testing which may or may not “track’ the SOLs accurately.

      So one can argue for or against , more or less testing. Right now, the balance is actually for less SOL testing.

      There have been initiatives to change/improve the way that reading and math are being taught. The most recent was called Common Core which was based on international standards (of which we rank 25th against other countries).

      Common Core was soundly rejected by parents and Conservatives as too “top down” and views that such standards should not be national in scope but instead done at the state and local level where the idea of “standardized” is basically diluted and how much or how little local standards might match up with other schools in other regions or states, totally not known. Common core would have established changes in instruction as well as a better way of comparing across states.

      So there is a rough mapping of SOLs with NAEP (and even PISA) because we have experience with kids that take both or three.

      Also , NAEP is NOT given in every school, just a representative number. Most Virginia schools do not give NAEP testing.

    3. Matt Hurt Avatar
      Matt Hurt

      Are you aware that kids who are held back a year typically turn 18 prior to the end of their 12th grade year? Many students who find themselves in that position decide that there’s better ways to spend their time than by attending school after they turn 18 (at that point, the newly minted “adults” are not held to mandatory school attendance). Holding a student back a year increases the likelihood that the student will not earn a diploma, especially for students who come from families that don’t value the diploma, don’t have the structure to support the kid, or don’t have the discipline to ensure the kids continues to attend school past their 18th birthday.

      The thing that most folks don’t understand is that effective, intentional instruction can yield more than one year’s worth of real educational growth each year. If this occurs, kids can reduce their proficiency gap each year until they are grade level proficient.

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        Matt, Where in Virginia (other than I suspect Region 7) is there evidence of such “effective, intentional instruction” succeeding at scale, obviating the need to hold back a third grader who cannot read or multiply?

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I had similar questions but I’m also aware that most public schools provide math and reading and learning disability specialists for kids who are having difficulties.

          It’s one of the things we never hear much about with regard to charter and other schools.

          Not all kids progress the same and some do have problems and need more specialized help to get back on track.

          Not all of them succeed but way more do than not from my conversations with teachers.

          We keep painting public schools as abject failures and they are not at all. Many a kid has gotten a good education , got a diploma and off to post secondary school, got a decent job and is now raising their own family.

          we focus on the failures – but that does not describe the public school system as a whole by any stretch of the imagination.

          Who takes care of autistic kids or kids with disabilities or developmental issues of all kinds? Do the Charter schools do that? Do the Success Academies do that?

        2. Matt Hurt Avatar
          Matt Hurt

          Back in 2017, the Board of Education updated the Standards of Accreditation to provide for such growth. Growth tables were devised to give schools credit in their accreditation rating if students who failed their SOL tests in reading or math realized sufficient growth over the previous year that put them on the path to proficiency. The way the tables were set up is that if a student failed but made sufficient growth, the school got credit for the growth. The growth figures and the pass rates were combined into the Combined Rate- the statistic used to accredit schools. The neat thing about this is that there were major incentives in place to help kids move towards proficiency, and many kids did under this model across the state.

          This model was very beneficial to the student, because this was a spring to spring growth model, and the incentive structure was exactly that same during each SOL administration. If the kid demonstrated growth, there was a very good chance that growth was real, and if the school helped the kid maintain that trajectory, he/she would become proficient over time.

          The current through year “growth” model does not benefit from that consistency in SOL administration, as there is a negative incentive for high performance in the fall (on the pre-assessment). As a consequence of that, there will be tons of “growth”, many schools will be fully accredited that wouldn’t have been otherwise, and this “growth” has a great potential to not lead to eventual proficiency for our students.

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5211b8b6c4c9195c78ea3a3e9afe02df2c042a235abec96de69dbffeed38e323.jpg

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Thank you. There ARE accreditation consequences for schools that do not perform to some standard.

            And the specifics of “growth” as you describe are obviously not known or understood by a great number of folks including some critics.

      2. Ronnie Chappell Avatar
        Ronnie Chappell

        The problem is that there are too many kids who can’t read, write or do math at anything close to grade level receiving high school diplomas. Many schools don’t even require compliance with attendance requirements. We should scrap graduation ceremonies and invite students to drive by their high school with their windows rolled down so administrators can toss their sheepskins into their cars.

        1. Matt Hurt Avatar
          Matt Hurt

          That may be, but I bet that problem is not as bad as it was prior to 1997 with the advent of the SOL tests. Before then, the only objective measure students were required to pass was the Literacy Passport Test (LPT) which was a reading, writing, and math test that was administered in 6th grade. Kids had to pass those tests (as well as earn the requisite high school credits) in order to earn their diploma. If they didn’t pass the LPT in 6th grade, they kept taking it in high school until they did. The LPT was written on a 6th grade skill level.

          Since the advent of the SOL test, students must pass the SOL tests that are on high school level- at least one in each content area. The reading and writing tests are 11th grade level. The science test would be either Earth Science, Biology, or Chemistry. The math test would be at least Algebra I.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            The problem I have is the non-SOL grading done by teachers in grades where SOLs are not administered – and the problem euphemistically referred to as “low expectations” which means higher grades than actually deserved until the SOLs are given and the truth known.

            How do fix this without putting even more onerous testing requirements on all teachers.

            We have a system that allows teachers to give higher grades than deserved and it’s not caught until months or longer after at which point “catch-up” is a much tougher thing to do.

            But it’s also one of these half-glass things. A very large number of kids in Virginia do well on SOLs and do well in comparison with other state school systems. We rank somewhere between 6th and 10th and the problems we have are the same problem most other state systems have, i.e. it’s not just a Virginia issue.

          2. Matt Hurt Avatar
            Matt Hurt

            I think it’s pretty clear that overall, we do better than most as a state. I think it’s also equally clear that we should be doing better by some students than we currently are. Once we do that, we’ll be at the top of the heap.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Agree. It’s half glass and we’re already better than most. The US as a whole is behind Asia and Europe in part because we do not focus enough on critial thinking.

          4. Matt Hurt Avatar
            Matt Hurt

            We don’t value education as much here.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            We say we do, but if we made our standards as rigorous as Asia and Europe, a lot more kids would probably fail and parents would object. As you say, we do not value education like our world competitors do.

          6. Matt Hurt Avatar
            Matt Hurt

            I’m sure that initially more kids would fail, but then they and our teachers would adapt and overcome. I’ve seen this happen in several schools.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            then perhaps that should be where the Gov should be headed. Better that than a tip line.

  7. Ronnie Chappell Avatar
    Ronnie Chappell

    To me the great revelation in this story is the fact that reading proficiency for a 10-year old isn’t the same as reading at a 4th grade level as measured by the SOL. The other is that Virginia SOL’s aren’t linked in any meaningful way national standards. Over the weekend I had the chance to talk with two veteran teachers who explained how time consuming repeated testing for SOL’s, NAEP and to measure classroom progress reduces time for instruction. Perhaps we should just ditch the SOL’s and administer the NAEP at the start and end of each school year, measure student progress, give teachers wide latitude to run their classrooms and pay the good ones for improving “proficiency.”

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      If we did not give standardized tests, how would we measure the performance of the schools?

      When we say that we are behind, how do we know that?

      Why give tests at all if they take away from instruction time?

      1. Ronnie Chappell Avatar
        Ronnie Chappell

        Not recommending that we end all standardized testing. Only that we do less of it and do it at the start and finish of the year.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Right. but isn’t part of the problem that we don’t know between those two if a kid is on-track and we don’t find out until later?

          Teachers do testing at the beginning of the year and at the end even though SOLs are not given every year.

          So trying to understand what you ARE advocating for….

          if we don’t test, we don’t know if the kid is learning and/or if the instruction is effective. Yes, it takes away from instructional time but what good is any amount of instruction if you really don’t know if it is effective or not?

          We might be saying the same thing in differing ways?

  8. Turbocohen Avatar
    Turbocohen

    Is anyone still wondering why Virginia Beach Democrats love Aimee Rogstad Guidera? They love her because she threw the most conservative VB school board member under the bus, which set off a chain reaction with the governor, the unit chair in VB and a technicolor clusterf$%k. Youngkin won because of the issues championed by this school board member 6 years ago who Aimee Rogstad Guidera dumped over a budget concern comment.

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