Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

Another List of Best Colleges

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by

Dick Hall-Sizemore
in

Washington and Lee University.

Inspired by the U.S. News & World Report’s ranking of colleges, everyone is getting into the game, each with its own criteria.

The Wall Street Journal has just released its list of “Best 400 Colleges in America.” Its rankings are based on student experiences, social mobility, and salary impact. Its greatest emphasis was on the following questions:

  1. How much will the college improve its students’ chances of graduating on time?
  2. How much will it improve the salaries they earn after receiving their diplomas?

The top school in the ranking was Princeton, followed by M.I.T, Yale, Stanford, and Columbia. Nine Virginia schools were ranked among the top 400, with four landing in the top 100. They were:

44—Washington and Lee
76—Virginia Tech
84—UVa
95—George Mason
152—James Madison
212—W&M
243—Old Dominion
318—VCU
326–Christopher Newport

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15 responses to “Another List of Best Colleges”

  1. Ronnie Chappell Avatar
    Ronnie Chappell

    Dick — I don’t think we’ll be reading about this in W&M’s alumni magazine.

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Question 1 doesn’t mean much when kids come in with those GPAs and test scores. Question 2 doesn’t help when they are rich coming in! But the whole exercise is of little value.

      1. DJRippert Avatar
        DJRippert

        Spoken like a graduate of college #212.

        1. Stephen Haner Avatar
          Stephen Haner

          A proud graduate!

        2. WayneS Avatar
          WayneS

          Well played, sir.

          😉

  2. VaPragamtist Avatar
    VaPragamtist

    Both questions are self-fulfilling prophecies, at least for the top ranked. Top ranked schools attract the top students who generally graduate “on time”.

    Top students from top ranked schools are more marketable, for which companies are willing to pay a premium for their talent.

    So the data shows students graduating on time and getting paid higher. So their rankings continue to be at the top. And the cycle continues.

    Tell me about the quality of academic programs, how much face time students get with faculty, level of affordability in relation to amenities, how efficiently the university is run (salary costs compared to services provided), how graduate students are treated and compensated, and what affordable experiential opportunities all students have access to.

    Give me a ranking based on that. Otherwise I just throw this in the same pile of garbage as pre-season football rankings.

    1. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      So, your logic requires that Virginia Tech attracts better students than William & Mary?

      I don’t think there are any statistics (GPA, SAT, etc) that would support your argument.

      I suspect that the salary measure depends a lot more on the types of degrees (and their proportion) awarded.

      An anthropology major from W&M is unlikely to make as much money as a EE from Virginia Tech. And VT graduates a lot of engineers.

      The general approach used by the WSJ or measuring outcomes rather than inputs seems to have a lot of merit.

      1. VaPragamtist Avatar
        VaPragamtist

        You must have missed the first sentence, “Both questions are self-fulfilling prophecies, at least for the top ranked”.

        I think there’s a boatload of statistics that support the idea that top ranked schools attract top ranked students (and have such competitive acceptance that they only need to accept top ranked students).

        The outcomes need to take context into account.

        A PoliSci major at VT probably won’t make as much as a neuroscience major at W&M. Outcomes also need apples to apples comparisons.

        1. DJRippert Avatar
          DJRippert

          But “top ranked” is quite subjective.

          The USN&WR review puts UVa somewhere around #25. WSJ has it as #84.

          In my opinion, USN&WR placement is “top ranked” the WSJ is not.

          W&M has an even bigger disparity. USN&WR ranks W&M #41. WSJ – #212.

          I don’t subscribe to the WSJ so I can’t see the complete rankings but there appears to be major discrepancies between USN&WR and WSJ.

          It seems to me that USN&WR rates the admission criteria heavily – inputs. WSJ ranks outputs (e.g. salary).

          Given the discrepancy, it seems that the top ranked high school students don’t necessarily end up among the best outputs.

  3. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Well, work is a meritocracy. When you go for your first job, that W&L or UVa, or W&M may make some difference. I doubt seriously that your next employer will even notice your school.

    1. Bubba1855 Avatar
      Bubba1855

      Nancy…just a short reply…If one graduated from a really big time school it will follow you for about 20 years. I was lucky enough to have an MBA from Wharton. It allowed me to get interviews and job offers that I would never have had it not been for that degree. However, in the end I had to ‘produce’…which I did.

      Bubba

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Well Bubba, that may be, but thems what writes here often are all goin’ on 40+ years out. In their cases, their school’s not followin’ them; they’s stalkin’ their school.

        My first job requested transcripts. By my third company, my references and pubs were my ticket. Each path walked is different.

  4. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    The Hokies score on the Cavs again! Love it.

  5. Bubba1855 Avatar
    Bubba1855

    Folks…I love to read your comments about top rated VA colleges…both public and private. But here is my take…’What is your major?’. Also, ‘How much will you have to pay for your major?’. ‘What are your financial expectations for your major?’.
    Sadly, times have changed. We all know that. I graduated from HSC in the 60’s when it had a great reputation. Not as good these days. But I did have a BS in math/physics and got into Wharton Grad. Not sure how, but that’s another story. My daughter, my last child, went to CoC in South Carolina. Duh, she also got a math major. She’s doing great in the Navy as a civilian employee. Bottom line…
    It’s not the school…it’s the major. Like previous posts have said,
    what’s an anthropology degree from W&M worth compared to a STEM degree from VPI, I still think of Blacksburg as VPI (yes, I was accepted to VPI and UVA).
    I’m sure that some degrees from VA schools are worth more than others, but the bottom line in my opinion is the major.
    Sorry, just my 2 cents.
    Bubba…

  6. Stanwood Avatar
    Stanwood

    From the WSJ Methodology details, within Student outcomes (70%) we have (with my emphasis):

    Salary impact versus similar colleges (33%): This measures the extent to which a college boosts its graduates’ salaries beyond what they would be expected to earn regardless of which college they attended. We used statistical modeling to estimate what we would expect the median earnings of a college’s graduates to be on the basis of their demographic profile, taking into account the factors that best predict salary performance. We then scored the college on its performance against that estimate. These scores were then combined with scores for raw graduate salaries to factor in absolute performance alongside performance relative to our estimates. Our analysis for this metric used research on this topic by the Brookings Institution policy-research think tank as a guide.

    If you dig into the Brookings Institution paper it gives a college more credit for raising the salaries of a student from an under-privileged background. This is an interesting metric for judging the social impact of a university. But I’m not sure how practical this is for an individual looking to enroll.

    Compare the rankings among Florida schools. University of Florida still comes in first. As the flagship school they have a high salary impact and a very high graduation rate. You might expect Florida State to come in second but instead it’s Florida International University. FIU is mostly a commuter school with a very diverse and less privileged enrollment. Although their graduation rate is much lower, those that make it see large salary gains and don’t incur much debt. Still, most any student who could afford to attend FSU would choose it over FIU.

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