Another Hard Year in 2015

Ranked by job growth, 2014 and 2015
Ranked by job growth, 2014 and 2015

It looks like another year of sub-par economic growth for Virginia, according to The Thomas Jefferson Institute for Public Policy’s “Virginia Economic Forecast 2015.” Sequestration and the resulting taming of federal government spending is doing the overall U.S. economy no harm — expected annual national growth of 2.3% in 2014 and 3.3% in 2015 is the strongest since the Great Recession ended six years ago. But federal spending cuts are concentrated geographically in the Washington capital region, and much of the fallout is being felt in Virginia, especially in the defense-dependent economies of Northern Virginia and Hampton Roads.

Meanwhile, Virginia’s smaller metros continue to lag the recovery, as do many small metros around the country not benefiting from the energy boom. (It will be interesting to see how energy-boom communities perform next year with oil at $50 per barrel.)

in Virginia, Winchester leads the way. (I’m not sure why, so I don’t have much to add).

Among the major metro regions, Richmond is the slow-but-steady tortoise that keeps plugging along at a middle-of-the-road pace nationally — enough to make it a top performer in Virginia. It’s not evident from the top-line growth figures but I see the change on the ground-floor level: The region is reinventing itself. Although Richmond is never likely to become a boom town, I do expect to see the region emerge as a region capable of sustained, faster-than-average growth in the years ahead.

The big question mark is Northern Virginia. How rapidly can the region with the greatest concentration of brainpower and high-tech industry in Virginia wean itself from dependency upon the federal government? Can companies transition from the arcane and stifling culture of government contracting to a more free-wheeling, entrepreneurial culture? Under the radar screen, there are a lot of positive signs. The future doesn’t reside in established Beltway Bandit contractors but in a slew of new start-ups. Once the contraction in government spending eases, I expect Northern Virginia to resume its growth leadership.

Without strong defense spending, Hampton Roads seems destined to be a laggard. The port and tourism industries just aren’t powerful enough to carry the entire region with it. Despite incredible quality-of-life advantages, the region is having difficulty reinventing itself.

Then there’s small metro/non-metro Virginia. Roanoke, Charlottesville and Lynchburg continue to struggle. I don’t understand what’s happening in Charlottesville. The University of Virginia doesn’t seem to have the same power to transform the local economy that Blacksburg does in the isolated New River Valley. Meanwhile, Virginia’s mill-town economy, as epitomized now by Lynchburg — Danville has hit such hard times that it no longer ranks as a metropolitan region — seems destined to continue its long, slow slide to oblivion. I hope I’m wrong about that, but I see no evidence to contradict me.

— JAB


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38 responses to “Another Hard Year in 2015”

  1. I don’t understand Charlottesville either and it’s more than the University – it has one of the premier medical centers in the state. So I’m wondering if there’s not some anomaly …in the data.

    Winchester also – is a huge regional medical center with 5000 employees.

    some other thoughts:

    The US Govt – drives a lot of technology – GPS, weather, and other satellite technology, drones, etc. It starts at DARPA and then continues on in the Govt R&D labs…

    If the govt could have licensed one technology – GPS -it would have become as big as the biggest private companies on the globe. Instead – it gets turned over for free to the private sector.

    next – the loss of jobs that are not coming back – anything that can go onto a computer or a cell phone or some combination – is one less job.

    I’ve had work done on the house in the last 12 months – and the workers all have cell phones – and they use them – to coordinate work, arrange to get equipment, get deliveries from construction supply.. etc. Have watched folks buy and sell homes – without an agent… all jobs that used to be primarily information gate-keeper type jobs are going away.

    my doctor now sits down at a keyboard/monitor when I go for an appointment and and she’s keying in data and reading lab results, writing prescriptions – all on the computer..

    when people fly – they no longer go to a travel reservations office – they do it themselves online.

    Uber is transforming the way we move about in cities.

    on and on – technology is replacing jobs – and it accelerated when the economy tanked and business were forced to find way to operate with fewer employee costs.

    I went to have a windshield replaced – and found out that Safelite is a franchise operation and the workers are not employees but independent contractors – who, yes, can be hired from a cellphone and instead of waiting a week for an appointment – they come out the same day …

    so any smallish town that has no real industry – is losing more and more jobs to automation and the internet.

    Walmart figures out the demographics for a given geography – and next thing you know virtually all the mom/pops in that area are toast.

    The only jobs left in many smaller towns – are govt – Post Office, Sheriff, Schools, municipal services, etc…

    the only industry that is actually consistently growing – is health care… because people are living longer – and can be saved from dying (from what used to be old age) if they get treatment and Medicare will pay for it and MedicAid where the expansion has been accepted and the employer-provided for the govt workers.

    The only places that rise above this are the places that produce something that is sold beyond the borders of the locality. Manufacturing, software, services, etc.

    and as we are finding out – these companies go to where the best bid for lower taxes or even net incentives are offered.

    What should Virginia do?

    In a word – education. and not just College – the Community Colleges need to become not only way-stops for 4 year college but places where kids can get certificates – for medical technology, vehicle technology, software, etc.

    the more we provide a real path to rural youngsters to get enough education to actually leave and get one of the jobs that IS available – the fewer the people who do have jobs will have to provide welfare and entitlements for.

    That’s your most effective economic development in the 21st century.

    the idea of attracting some company to some locality – has become the modern day economic Hail Mary pass and made worse when we have really crappy schools in some places… that businesses just don’t want to be located near anyhow.

    1. Charlottesville still isn’t big enough to reach critical mass. It moves along just fine but it isn’t “on fire” like Austin.

      Economic development is catalyzed when top tier educational institutions are located in or near population centers. In Virginia, there are a lot of good colleges and universities. However, the top 3 are not located near population centers. So, an economic development opportunity is missed. Austin has been growing like a weed for many decades. However, it is both the capital of fast-growing Texas and home to the University of Texas.

      Virginia needs to start making some bets. We can selectively add more funding to universities already in population centers in the hope of improving their reputation. Or, a systematic effort at business expansion investment could be undertaken around one or more of the top tier universities. For example, Virginia could move some of the more technically oriented state agencies to Charlottesville and rebuild the airport into a full regional airport. Of course, this would require our weak executive, strong legislative model of government to make trade-offs since money spent in one place can’t be spent again somewhere else. Given that the power in the state is ridiculously centered in the legislature we should expect the same parochial and ineffective behavior we have seen over the last … oh, I don’t know … century.

      The overly powerful legislative model inhibits effective economic development.

      1. I sorta get confused when I hear Bacon and Don going on about the free market but then talking about what govt needs to do …for economic development.

        very confusing.

        ;-0

    2. virginiagal2 Avatar
      virginiagal2

      I would have said the other way around – with technology, where you work is getting less and less important, and it’s getting easier and easier to get high level technical skills online.

      Remote jobs, and starting your own business, have never been easier.

      The stumbling block is getting good high speed Internet – you can get satellite, but it has limitations.

      1. Virginiagal:

        I’d argue that trend is reversing. From Marisa Mayer at Yahoo to paired development I am seeing more and more technology companies insist on working from work vs working from home.

        Now, the “war for talent” is in full bloom in technology. So, companies are more and more willing to open relatively small shops in locales where they can mop up some decent skills for reasonable salaries. Tallahassee has always been a favorite of mine for finding affordable technical skills who don’t switch jobs more often than they change undershirts.

        McAuliffe should stop focusing on getting companies to move their headquarters to Virginia and start focusing on getting companies to open software development operations in Virginia.

        1. If what virginiagal2 is saying is true – and Don seems to be not in violent disagreement with it – then what explains the horrendous exurban commuting going on – in many if not most urban areas including the DC/Md/Nova area?

          the more I read about start-ups these days – the more one realizes that they are often not in high-visibility office towers .. many times in non-descript strip shopping centers, closed big-boxes and even warehouses…

          We had Capital One build two 6 story office buildings right off I-95 in Fredericksburg. In about 3 years, they were gone – the company had changed it’s mind about how they would be organized – physically.

          it’s taken years to re-fill them.. they now have govt security contractors and college loan companies.. but still lots of empty ….

          we’ve also built satellite commuting centers – located near major roads with very good internet – and they have basically flopped….

          we have tons of empty strip that could easily be smaller software operations … but they stay empty or they get filled with hair and nail salons, pawn shops, store-front churches, and the like.

        2. virginiagal2 Avatar
          virginiagal2

          Despite the publicity about Mayer – and there were a couple of others at about the same time – I personally have not seen an overall decrease in tech jobs with ability to work from home. There definitely are specific companies that have backed away from it, but technology has made it significantly easier to be extremely productive from home, and others have moved towards it.

          I do agree that many companies prefer to have satellite offices rather than individuals working remote. Virginia has an excellent workforce to tap for this, with a high percentage of technically skilled workers, and a good educational infrastructure. I definitely think software development operations would be a good sector for the state to target.

          Starting a small business from home is definitely very much on the upswing, particularly tech and tech-enabled businesses. I see this both with people opening a full time business and others opening a secondary business on the side.

          1. re: working from home –

            this is a pretty big issue that has been flying under the radar in my view.

            first – it basically requires for management to know how it’s work is organized and structured ahead of time instead of a chaotic ad hoc environment.

            In other words – if you want to use a person at home for 40 hours worth of work – as a manager you actually have to know – from a productivity viewpoint how much 40 hours of work actually is!

            you can’t be swinging by their cubical twice a day to see what they are doing and you don’t have the flexibility of having some impromptu meetings with the staff to make mid-course corrections if things are not proceeding as expected…

            so you give the work to the guy/gal at home and then you’re stuck with figuring out what to do with the stuff they were not given…

            some bosses know the work and are knowledgeable and savvy enough to know how to adjust by emailing the remote workers or having impromptu emails or video conferencing.

            but some bosses are not particularly knowledgeable nor competent as managers.. themselves. Sometimes someone who is good at doing a job is not good when elevated to manage. And sometimes – the boss really has no idea how long it takes to actually do a particular task – and truly productive people can usually easily accomplish the task faster than the boss thinks they can!

            we tried lines-of-code as a metric for a while but that’s full of problematical aspects… i.e. how difficult is the task to be coded? Are you writing code that can be maintained by others? are the coding techniques you are using – safe and not risky? etc, etc.. it’s sort of like rating a doctor by how many patients they see and not looking at how many are staying sick or dying…

            Also – is the person working remotely – a real employee whom you can direct in the ways to accomplish the work – or are they an independent contractor from which if you follow IRS rules -you are supposed to give them the job and the specifications for the work product – and go away and let them do the work however they decide to best get it done…

            okay … some my point is – that working from home is fundamentally different than working at the office. I’ve done both – and the difference is night and day – in my view though if Virginiagal2 says otherwise, I’d certainly say that people’s “mileage” might vary as there are all kinds of potential formal and informal variations in producing stuff between home and office.

          2. virginiagal2 Avatar
            virginiagal2

            Larry, agreed, and I’d add that the important metric for successful home work is often productivity, rather than looking busy.

            Measuring looking busy requires less knowledge of the job. A manager needs to understand the work pretty well to be comfortable measuring productivity.

          3. re: ” Larry, agreed, and I’d add that the important metric for successful home work is often productivity, rather than looking busy.

            Measuring looking busy requires less knowledge of the job. A manager needs to understand the work pretty well to be comfortable measuring productivity.”

            we totally agree. A GOOD manager knows what real productivity looks like and trusts those who produce to do so – regardless of where they do it.

            a lazy manager is paranoid – and probably ought to be…

            but why do we not have more folks in rural areas “employed” in this way and unemployment stats tend to align with proximity to urban job centers?

            In theory – someone who is good at what they do and chooses to not be a victim to commuter hell – should transform our rush hours…and at the same time improve the economy of the rural areas…

            maybe this is something Jim should delve more into….

            are we using 20th century metrics for 21st century economies or are economies still stuck in 20th century policies?

            see JIm and Don and Richard Florida call cities “knowledge centers” and as you point out – it attracts the young because there are “more things to do” but on the other hand they are very expensive places and “affordable” housing and gawd awful traffic are big negatives.

            We have 300,000 people in the Fredericksburg Area – about 50-60,000 of them – every day get on I-95 commuter hell.. and endure it – day after day – so they can have an “affordable” home.

            They whine and bleat about Fredericksburg not have “good paying jobs”.

            You’ll find this to be a fairly common sentiment in all the exurban places arrayed around the DC area – from Capon Bridge West Virginia to western Md to the Northern Neck of Virginia!

            earlier in the week it was taking 90 minutes to go 15 miles on I-95.. and when I-95 is not “broke”.. VRE – the commuter rail – has run over a dead hog on something and its dorked for the duration…

            and then we have Virginiagal2 – just living the life! what do you know that all these commuting schmucks don’t?

            😉

      2. re: ” I would have said the other way around – with technology, where you work is getting less and less important, and it’s getting easier and easier to get high level technical skills online.”

        I cannot really disagree but I am still sort of stuck in 20th century thinking myself sometimes.

        but even startups have to have a physical presence somewhere and have to book their business revenue – somewhere… right? or am I wrong?

        on the internet – you are also dead on correct – the number one complaint often heard in suburbia is not where the water/sewer end – but where the internet cable ends.. and people then have to use hughesnet or cellular internet…

        but your view also runs counter to Dons and Jim’s views who believe it’s the cities that attract young people and therefore the high tech companies for the labor pool… and the best cities have top tier colleges, top notch medical, etc and a panoply of other amenities and services not general found in suburbia and even less so in rural areas.

        so I wonder if what you think is actually more 21st century and what Don and Jim think – more 20th century.

        good discussion.

        1. virginiagal2 Avatar
          virginiagal2

          You have to have a physical address to pay taxes. For small businesses, that address can be a home. There are zoning requirements as to what businesses you can or can’t do in residential or agricultural zoning (it’s not rare for people living further out to be on land that’s zoned as the latter.)

          I think a lot of young people, technical or not, like to live in cities. More people to date, more to do. From personal observation, a fair number of slightly-less-young ranging up to older techies like living a little further out once they’ve settled down. Maybe it’s because many techies are somewhat introverted, and actually don’t mind being a little further away from lots of people? Plus cheaper housing, lower taxes, less crime, etc. If you can eliminate the commute, and if the schools are decent, it’s pretty appealing.

          Realistically, many of the things that are fun to do in the city are not things that we have time to do all that often. Many very good hospitals are in the suburbs rather than core city. Once you’re out of school, online classes or training can keep your technical skills fresh without having to attend classes in the city.

          Depending on what you’re looking for, any more, you can get an awful lot of things online, you can get physical amenities delivered (even specialty foods), and occasional trips in to the city or even exurbs can deliver much of the rest. You have to be pretty far out not to be within driving distance of a Starbucks, and even if your town doesn’t have one, quite a few teeny tiny places have coffee shops with very good lattes.

          It does depend on what you’re doing for a living. Some things are well suited to doing remote, others very much aren’t. Another option might be to work remote but meet with the people you work with regularly – I have seen that work well for work that is largely individual in execution, but that requires collaboration.

          It also depends on how you like to live.

          I’m not saying this is what everyone will do – I am saying it’s more of an option than it used to be, and I definitely do see a pattern of people taking advantage of it, including a moderate number of techies. It seems like every group of technical people I work with has at least one person who lives on a hobby farm pretty far out in the country.

  2. Cville Resident Avatar
    Cville Resident

    And then there are the VEC’s employment numbers:

    http://virginialmi.com/?page=3&print=1&release=225

    Charlottesville had 1.6% job growth from 11/13 to 11/14

    The other localities numbers are also way off from the 2014 “projection.”

    Not really sure what data they’re getting their projections from.

    As to this neck of the woods, I have a hard time believing that things aren’t going well from an economic perspective….New Costco, New Wegman’s, Huge new redevelopment of the Coke plant underway, new high dollar hotel at the corner of McIntire and W. Main all coming online in 2015….I have a hard time believing we’d be seeing that type of development if things weren’t going well with the broader economy.

    1. Once possibility is that Charlotesville is becoming an attractive location for wealthy retirees. That would help the economy without increasing employment or growing wages as much as additional employed people would increase employment and wages.

      I don’t have statistics but I know quite a few people who have retired from NoVa to Charlottesville.

      1. Cville Resident Avatar
        Cville Resident

        Very good point. Median family income in Albemarle is 98K per year compared to 60K for Henrico and 47K for Montgomery.

        Somehow I don’t find that to be “struggling.”

        1. lots of retired UVA profs.. who probably get more in retirement than most full-time non-professor workers in Cville get…

        2. That doesn’t sound right to me. Are you sure that you aren’t quoting mean (or average) family income? That would be a very, very high median family income. Also, I think you’d have to add the City of Charlottesville to the calculation to make it fully relevant.

          However, despite the possible statistical quirks – Charlottesville seems to be doing fine economically. It’s just not nearly big enough to “move the needle” on the overall economics of Virginia. That is unfortunate since I believe the modern economics of states is becoming an economy of a couple of large population centers driving growth and prosperity across the state. America’s poorest states consistently lack a major population center with a substantial percentage of the state’s population – Mississippi, Kentucky, etc. Meanwhile, America’s richest state (Maryland) has a large percentage of its population in Baltimore and the DC suburbs.

          Virginia has prospered by dint of the federal government. Take away the federal government and the wealth and population growth it brought to Virginia and you pretty much have Kentucky.

          1. re: ” Virginia has prospered by dint of the federal government. Take away the federal government and the wealth and population growth it brought to Virginia and you pretty much have Kentucky.”

            wow – that’s a huge change from a couple years ago when you were bragging on what an economic powerhouse NoVa was and how they had to subsidize RoVa!

            So now we find out that RoVa is just an intermediate stopping point for Federal dollars to RoVa?

            ;-]

          2. Cville Resident Avatar
            Cville Resident

            Wikipedia also has the figure for Albemarle (98K as mean family income):

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albemarle_County,_Virginia

            You are completely right about West of Richmond and south of 66. Honestly, outside of Charlottesville/Albemarle, it’s extremely poor and lagging.

            I’ve written on here many times: if Mr. Bacon wants to write a story about Virginia’s economy, he needs to spend some time in Roanoke. That’s an enormous story waiting to be written. Up until the 60s, Roanoke was on par with the rest of the state during the 20th century in a lot of socioeconomic indicators.

            But Roanoke is now a shell compared to the Commonwealth as a whole. What was once a regional hub (even parts of West Virginia viewed Roanoke as “the big city”) has really fallen on hard times.

            It’s a shame, b/c Roanoke is my favorite city in Virginia (I lived there for 2 years a while ago). But from friends there, I hear the City is very worried. Advance Auto moved some of its functions to Raleigh last year. If Advance pulled out of the Star City, it would be an unmitigated disaster. That’s the only true high wage employer in the area outside of Carillion.

          3. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
            Reed Fawell 3rd

            C’ville has awkward geography and transport net for a booming commercial center, although its emerging high tech offsets it a bit, but likely not enough.

          4. UVA has some significant research areas including the Curry School for education where they are at the forefront of assessment protocols to do instead of high stakes testing. PALS is part of it but they are also working with changes to Math assessments…

            Schools across the county -not only public schools but private and charter, even Home schooling are, despite the uproar over common core – are increasingly moving into software that “tests” as the kid does the exercises and the assessments are going on as the kid is learning – without having a high stakes component… the assessments themselves are more granular so that the kids strengths and weaknesses are differentiated and exercises to focus on his weaknesses are increased.

            Of all the money spent in the US – education is second only to health care and we have some catching up to do with OECD countries so this would seem to be a fertile area for start-ups and no better location that where the research is ongoing.

            So Don -thinks Virginia needs to up it’s game and I’d not disagree but we do have some assets already. Va Tech has significant Transportation Research Facility – to include a Smart Road…

            Finally – both Tech and UVA have considerable satellite facilities to extend their presence…. beyond their home campuses..

        3. I lived in Roanoke for four years in the early 1980s. I was very fond of the place. At the time, it was the HQ to Norfolk & Western Railway and the business center of western Virginia with a number of regional headquarters. It wasn’t setting the world on fire, but it had a strong economic base. I’m disheartened by what’s happened (or hasn’t happened) there. It’s really sad.

          1. Cville Resident Avatar
            Cville Resident

            Any chance you would write a story about it? I enjoy your writing and would love to see a deep dive into what’s happened in Roanoke.

          2. If you do – please be sure to include the Salvage Dawgs:

            Black Dog Architectural Salvage – with their own show on DIY channel!

            http://www.blackdogsalvage.com/section.aspx?pid=115

          3. Additional idea – contrast what did (or didn’t) happen in Roanoke with a similar place that has prospered. I’d suggest Greenville, SC as a candidate.

          4. I think Don picked a good city to compare and contrast:

            “Greenville’s economy was formerly based largely on textile manufacturing, and the city was long known as “The Textile Capital of the World.” In the last few decades, favorable wages and tax benefits have lured foreign companies to invest heavily in the area.

            The city is the North American headquarters for Hubbell Lighting, PerceptIS, and Michelin, and has offices for BMW. In 2003, the International Center for Automotive Research was created, establishing CUICAR as the new model for automotive research. The Center for Emerging Technologies in mobility and energy was opened in 2011, hosting a number of companies in leading edge R&D and the headquarters for Sage Automotive.

            When the former Donaldson Air Force Base closed, the land became the South Carolina Technology and Aviation Center, and became home to a Lockheed Martin aircraft and logistics center, as well as facilities operated by 3M and Honeywell.

            Caterpillar Inc. has a diesel engine manufacturing plant and engineering operations located in Greenville. General Electric has a gas turbine, Aviation and wind energy manufacturing operations located in Greenville. O’Neal, Inc. a project planning, design, and construction firm, has its headquarters in Greenville.”

            Now South Carolina is the top State in the union for Home Rule. I wonder if Don knew that…

            😉

            the other thing is that SC as lavished tax and incentive deals to attract companies to SC and Greenville – something Jim Bacon has said he disagrees with.

            Estimated median household income in 2012: $40,023
            Estimated median house or condo value in 2012: $204,772

            Roanoke:

            Estimated median household income in 2012: $37,890
            Estimated median house or condo value in 2012: $132,300

            compare these to NoVa…

            household income > 100,000
            Median home sale price:
            Arlington $524,375
            Loudoun $387,200

            Roanoke and Greenville are more like Charlottesville than NoVa.

    2. virginiagal2 Avatar
      virginiagal2

      In looking at it, I’m wondering if part of why employment isn’t increasing more is that it was pretty high already – not as much room to go up. Note that wages and salaries are increasing well, which doesn’t suggest a glut of supply.

      I don’t think this is retirees although that’s some of it. A lot of the people I know in C’ville have their own, largely location-independent, businesses – basically picking an area where they really want to live, doing much of their work from there, and traveling when necessary.

      That sort of thing is getting steadily easier.

      1. virginiagal2 – a question on your location-independent thinking.

        do you think you could locate ANYWHERE and still be doing work for some company – headquartered many cities away from you .. like working in Norto for a company in NoVA ….OR are you basically just “out” a bit from a place like Cville? in other words is it truly location independent or is it more like a local satellite situation where the workers are arrayed in rural/suburban areas around the urban area where the company is located?

        1. virginiagal2 Avatar
          virginiagal2

          It depends.

          Consulting jobs, you can live anywhere, but you need to be close to an airport. That’s the one that comes to mind first, but it’s not uncommon for people working from home to want to be within reasonable driving distance of a metro center, either for work or personal preference. Note that reasonable varies depending on how often you’re visiting.

          Some jobs are truly location independent, but others want you to come in periodically for meetings. How often you need to come in can affect how far out you want to be.

          A fair number of small online businesses really don’t require you to ever see the humans you’re working with. A lot of people who work remote are working for themselves, either alone or with a small group of other people also working online. Some examples – native or web app development (small scale – big companies need a physical site); freelance writing, editing, design, layout; online sales of items made to order by a third party, which has gotten much more accessible to ordinary small business people; consulting; remote system or database administration; remote web development and administration; etc.

          Keep in mind, on-site consulting is fairly location independent, and many consultants live wherever they prefer, since they have to travel to the client anyway.

          There are more opportunities to work online and remote than ever, but not every job can be done remote, and some are difficult to do well solely remote.

          1. I hear you Virginiagal2 but I have a question for you.

            if there are jobs and opportunities to work from home – online –
            why do we have such high unemployment in some areas – especially rural?

            and why do we have so many people – still commuting to work?

            these are not in-your-face challenges.. just questions that you might have insight on more than myself or others.

            I would think – as you say – that a bright kid in Norton, Va could, now days, no matter his K-12 school – truly excel at learning if he/she was so inclined AND that he/she and others could actually work their way through college by doing some kinds of coding work that employers need done.. for cheap…

            I won’t go on – but you got my drift I hope… if we truly live in an online world – what is holding back education and employment?

          2. Cville Resident Avatar
            Cville Resident

            You bring up some good points. I do work for a biotech and I completely agree that so, so, so many jobs are site independent nowadays. Tech and research have a ton of people who simply live where they like. I doubt these statistics and surveys come anywhere close to their actual impact on employment/economic growth in an area.

            I’d urge Mr. Bacon to stop posting stories like this, b/c it’s the equivalent of talking about DOS in this day and age. “Employment and wage” statistics are pretty unreliable nowadays. The metrics haven’t changed, and we still use these dinosaur barometers. And this is something that economists from both the left and right agree…the self-employed is an enormous gap in economic measurements. Some “self-employed” can be a guy who mows lawns and makes 20K a year. Nothing wrong with that. But it’s ludicrous to put them in the same category as a tech consultant pulling in 150K a year. Their impact on a local economy is much different.

            A better way to measure an area’s economic vitality is commercial/artistic/cuisine churn/etc. development. “Employment and wages” can be awfully deceiving. I get down to Richmond 2 to 4 times per year. And I can definitively say that even though employment and traditional statistics don’t show it, the City’s been buzzing for 3 years now compared to the past. Richmond’s a very good example of why these stories are ridiculous in 2015. The City’s 100 times more vibrant in 2015 than say, 2008. But looking at the chart with this story, you’d think it’s just treading water/standing still. Simply not true.

          3. virginiagal2 Avatar
            virginiagal2

            Larry, the thing is, an increased ability in theory doesn’t mean that every individual is able to take advantage of it. Also, I’m not sure that how we measure employment is capturing this well.

            To the first point, not all work can be done online. If you are a miner, or a laborer, or a retail clerk, you may have to turn to other skills if you want to be able to work online. Some jobs that don’t take place on line increasingly use it for marketing (example – small farms.)

            And your ability to work online, even if you have suitable skills or are able to start an online business, may be limited by the broadband infrastructure, or lack thereof.

            The other point is that I’m not sure how well we measure this. If someone works for a Richmond firm, but is working from home most days from, say, Nottoway, I’m guessing that job is counted as Richmond, not Nottoway.

            If someone has a small online business that is set up as an LLC, and they and any partners do the actual work and take any profits as their payment, rather than having actual employees – I’m wondering if that gets counted in employment statistics at all.

            I do think we have more of this than is being measured, because our metrics weren’t designed with this in mind.

          4. re: ” If someone works for a Richmond firm, but is working from home most days from, say, Nottoway, I’m guessing that job is counted as Richmond, not Nottoway.’

            that’s an excellent point.

            but Nottoway should see a bump in it’s median income… I would think as well as expanding population, taxable property and ….kids in K-12.

            but agree.. are we using informative metrics for the 21st century?

  3. Cville Resident Avatar
    Cville Resident

    Good call larryg. A Greenville-Roanoke comparison would be interesting (and unfortunately, probably depressing).

    I’ve always thought it’s a little ridiculous to view places like Charlottesville/Harrisonburg/Blacksburg as MSAs. They’re just too small to get a good macro feel for data. Hell, I believe Staunton/Waynesboro/Augusta is now an MSA????

    Lynchburg’s on the edge as well, but I guess I can see some utility in measuring a “Lynchburg region.” But that’s as small as I’d go.

    I’d love to hear from Hill City Jim and other Lunchbaggers (they’ll get the reference)….what are your thoughts on 2015 Lynchburg? That’s an area that really seems to have 2 sharply divided schools of thought. Some seem to believe that the recent population growth in the city augurs something good in the future. Others view the area as struggling to hold on and in real danger of becoming more like Danville. I’ve enjoyed visiting Lynchburg on a few occasions. I would like to think that the future is brighter rather than darker.

  4. Hill City Jim Avatar
    Hill City Jim

    Well, we are not exactly an old mill town slowly fading into the sunset. The biggest change in recent years is the explosive growth of Liberty University. Both in enrollment which effects the population data and their employment WHICH DOES NOT HAVE TO BE REPORTED TO THE VEC, thus showing little or negative employment growth here in Region 2000.
    On the other end, AREVA and Babcock & Wilcox, our 2 largest tech employers may be on the decline as nuclear costs to generate electricity are way more than carbon burning methods and the naval division is dependent upon government contracts for fueling and re-fueling the fleet. Jim Cramer says the nuclear industry is dead, we shall see. We are also home to Genworth’s Long Term Care business and there are, as many of you know, discussions of what they will do with that business, and it is scary as they employ over 1% of the region’s jobs.
    Many people think this is a good place to retire and are anti-growth, I am more of a pro-business growth person that believes the necessity of such.
    Because Liberty people send their kids to their K-12 schools which entitles them to a free college ride, the public schools are left with a much higher percentage of EDs, and minority children which test poorly thus requiring education costs higher than they should be. As there has been very little tax base expansion, Liberty is tax exempt, thus we are consistently ranked as one of the most fiscally stressed localities in the state. (updated report due Monday from the Commission on Local Government)
    As long as the state maintains their Robin Hood financing, we will survive. Left to our own resources, we would be in trouble.

  5. Cville Resident Avatar
    Cville Resident

    Thanks for your perspective.

    I certainly hope Genworth maintains their presence there.

    1. sorta makes one wonder what it is about Lynchburg that compels Generworth to stay there.. it seems to be a bit out of the way… in the modern world.

      1. Not really any more out of the way than Cville, Roanoke, or even Greenville. Genworth exists in Lynchburg because it was once headquartered there as First Colony life Insurance. I’d say that the “mill town” comparison doesn’t fit Lynchburg since the industries in Lynchburg tend to be more centered around engineering than low income blue collar labor. Genworth actually uses a large number of foreign laborers in Lynchburg as opposed to Lynchburg area residents. Lynchburg has a strong medical sector and and pretty good sized employment base in education. We have an odd economy that really seemed to hum along when the state economy was growing and local economic development officials worked together to grow the region’s workforce. Business recruitment in VA is just a shadow of what it was in the ’90s and ’00s and leaders in Lynchburg have lagged even further behind . Either way, to say the Lynchburg is the new Danville is probably rooted in not being familiar with the area.

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