Alleged Shooter’s Dorm Room on UVa Property Exposed Him to University Actions Not Taken

Bice House – All photos and diagrams courtesy University of Virginia

by James C. Sherlock

Updated Nov. 19 at 8:50 AM. See details at end.

So, the University of Virginia conducted a formal threat investigation of allegations of student possession of firearms on the Grounds.

Except it really didn’t.

The accused was found after three murders and two woundings to have possessed in his dorm room a small arsenal.

The Threat Assessment Team (TAT) knew that the student had been accused of talking of possessing a gun. That was the reason the TAT was convened.

The TAT had access to State Police records including

  • his legal gun purchases;
  • his conviction in Chesterfield County on a concealed weapon charge, a misdemeanor;
  • his Petersburg conviction on a felony hit-and-run charge that was reduced to a misdemeanor; and
  • the fact that he was on suspended jail sentences for both of the crimes.

Let’s see who they sent to interview him. From the Charlottesville Daily Progress:

However, (Chief) Longo noted, neither the off-Grounds tipster nor Jones’s roommate ever saw a weapon, and Longo implied that the Office of Student Affairs unsuccessfully attempted to speak to Jones.

They sent someone from the Office of Student Affairs. On a gun-threat issue.  What could have gone wrong? It is perhaps a good thing the student refused to cooperate.

TAT members individually had all the authority and evidence they needed to inspect his room on university property, seize the weapons and, as a result, arrest and ban him from the grounds (possession of weapons on university property), expel him, and evict him from University housing.

They did none of that. They “meant” to refer him to the student-run Judiciary Committee. For a three-month wait for a trial and a stern warning or community service. The University actually announced that had happened. But that announcement was not true.

They later announced there was a “snafu.”

The student, the now-accused murderer, was treated with extreme and deadly deference by University security officials.

Three young men are dead.

The authorities and responsibilities for action.  The members of the TAT had two sources of authorities and responsibilities to act in the case of the man accused of killing three and wounding two.

University Virginia policy SEC-030: Regulation of Weapons, Fireworks, Explosives, and Other Prohibited Items

  1. Regulation of Weapons, Fireworks, and Explosives: Weapons:
    1. Members of the University Community:
      The possession, storage, or use of any weapon by any University student, faculty, employee, contractor, trainee, or volunteer is prohibited on University property. This prohibition also applies regardless of whether a person has a concealed weapon permit.
    2. Persons Lawfully in Charge:  In addition to University personnel responsible for the management or supervision of University property and activities, University law-enforcement officers are lawfully in charge of University property for purposes of forbidding entry upon or within or prohibiting remaining upon or within University property while possessing weapons.  (emphasis added)

Accused Shooter’s Housing Contract. The Undergraduate Terms and Conditions of Housing include:

Safety: …  All University housing residents must adhere to expectations and rules instituted by the University including Housing & Residence Life and the Office of the Dean of Students. Failure to adhere to such rules and expectations may result in removal from University housing and/or disciplinary proceedings.

Prohibited Possessions: To ensure the safety of all residents, certain items are prohibited within all on-Grounds residential areas; it is your responsibility to review and remain aware of the list of prohibited items.

Removal of Student Property: In the event of an emergency or other exigent circumstance, the University and its agents may remove students’ belongings from the Premises for cleaning, inspection, repair, storage, and/or protection …. Should the University discover items that raise concern for immediate safety or a significant violation of University policy or law, this matter may be referred to the appropriate authorities.

Student Conduct: Students at the University of Virginia are subject to all Federal, State, and local laws, as well as the University’s Standards of Conduct, academic, financial, and non-academic rules and regulations. This License prohibits violations of those laws and regulations. All sections of this document and any policies referenced by it are considered formal requirements and part of Housing & Residence Life policies. Failure to adhere to these laws, regulations, and requirements may result in immediate removal from University housing, Interim Suspension, and/or disciplinary proceedings. (emphasis added)

The arsenal.

Again from The Daily Progress:

The inventory included a Ruger AR-556, which is a semi-automatic rifle, and a Smith & Wesson model 39 pistol—along with a pair of full or nearly full 30-round AR magazines, a box of Winchester .223 ammunition, and a pair of Glock 9-millimeter magazines.

Other things that (Trooper) Tuggle seized from Jones’s apartment in Bice House included an optical sight, a red dot sight, fiberglass gloves, a buffer spring, holster, and a back strap. Among the items taken was a single 9-millimeter bullet.

The AR-556 is three feet long. With case, four feet long. It retails for $1,000.

The Smith and Wesson Model 39 retails for $600.

The dorm room seizure did not include the Glock 45 9-millimeter pistol that he bought from the sporting goods store. Depending upon the configuration, a Glock 45 retails for between $540 and $700.

The .223 ammunition was for the rifle. The 9 mm bullet was for either of the pistols. A single bullet signals he loaded a clip and had one round left over. He may have taken the box with him.

He bought the rifle and the AR-566 legally at Dance’s Sporting Goods in Colonial Heights after his Petersburg felony charge had been reduced to a misdemeanor. No word yet that I can find on the origin of the Smith and Wesson 9mm.

I expect the Glock was the weapon he used to kill three and wound two.

Bice House. Bice is an eight-story apartment building with double occupancy bedrooms in two- or three-bedroom configurations. It is for upperclassmen and has a Resident Advisor (RA). For a tour see here.

From the University of Virginia.

Bice’s air-conditioned, furnished apartments are located south of Cabell Hall at 583 Brandon Avenue. The two- and three-bedroom units offer double occupancy in each room and one or two bathrooms. Each apartment features a large living area and a kitchen with stove, refrigerator, and sink. Kitchens in Bice have been upgraded with new cabinets, countertops, and appliances.

It is university property, a key factor in this case.

Floor Plans

Bice Three Bedroom

Hardly a Victorian mansion.

Bice bedroom

 

Bice bedroom closet
Bice Kitchen
Bice living rook

So were did he keep the arsenal that State Police found? In the common storage closet? Under his bed? In his small clothes closet?

The search. So, by living in University Housing, the shooter had signed away some of the privacy he could have expected in private housing.

The State Police, investigating three homicides, got a warrant for a search that turned up the arsenal.

Authority and responsibility unfulfilled. University security officials apparently had not needed a warrant to search University property in their investigation. Let’s look at their authority.

Was the shooter’s reported possession of a gun reported to the University’s “Just Report It” hotline: yes.

Is unsanctioned possession of firearms defined as violent or threatening behavior at the University? Yes.

Are all students required to cooperate with the TAT 

including but not limited to: answering questions about violent or threatening behavior, answering questions about persons of concern (e.g., the environment where they live, work, study, or receive care; stressors, health, emotional health, history of violence or threatening statements, and weapon possession),

Yes.

Are firearms prohibited items in the dorms? Of course.  See University Virginia policy SEC-030: Regulation of Weapons, Fireworks, Explosives, and Other Prohibited Items.

Which members of the TAT had authority and responsibilities to enforce sec-030?   Answer: personnel responsible for the management or supervision of University property and activities and University law-enforcement officers.  Those were the police department, its Chief and the Office of Student Affairs.  Officials on the TAT with responsibilities to ensure those regulations were enforced included every member of the team.

Did they do so?  No.

Is a firearms investigation an “exigent circumstance” as stated in the contract authorizing removal of student property for inspection? Exigent means pressing or demanding. How could it not be?

Do TAT members in their day jobs appear to have had probable cause — the report to the hotline and his criminal and gun purchase records — and the authority and responsibility to conduct a search of university property: yes.

Is failure to comply with those policies, including refusal to cooperate with a TAT investigation, good cause for disciplinary action up to and including expulsion: yes.

The violation of gun regulations at the University likely would have resulted in the vacation of the suspension of his jail sentence on a gun charge in Chesterfield County.

Was any of that done?

No.

Bottom line. This particular student was not just treated with kid gloves, but rather no gloves at all. By people on the TAT with direct responsibility for University security. Including people directly reporting to the President of the University.

Three young men are dead.

The Board of Visitors has asked the Attorney General to convene an investigation of University processes in this case. That is the right thing to do.

There is some reason that this particular student was singled out for such deference.

I will leave it to the investigators to make their own assessments of what that might be.

Updated Nov. 19 at 8:50 AM.  This article has been reformatted to emphasize the authorities and responsibilities of members of the TAT and has removed any reference to the binary trigger or gloves found in the shooter’s arsenal.  

Separately, I have sent a query on the legality of the binary trigger to the State Police.  I thank the readers who pointed out the controversy over the legality of that trigger.  I note that Dance’s Sporting Goods in Colonial Heights, which sold some of the weapons to the accused shooter, sells binary triggers ($400, only three left in stock!) so that seems to indicate readers are correct.  

That issue is not dispositive of what should have been done or the consequences if the arsenal had been found as a result of the TAT, so I have removed the reference.


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133 responses to “Alleged Shooter’s Dorm Room on UVa Property Exposed Him to University Actions Not Taken”

  1. Ronnie Chappell Avatar
    Ronnie Chappell

    My money is on “general incompetence” and the fact that responsibility for action by the TAT is so diffuse that rapid decision making is difficult if not impossible. Just have to see how it plays out. We’ll know when the finger-pointing begins in earnest and the civil suits are filed against UVA, the administration and members of the TAT.

    1. walter smith Avatar
      walter smith

      I’m not thinking that level of generosity may be warranted.
      It looks really bad, but let’s back up.
      If Petersburg had held him to the felony, would he have been able to purchase the firearms?
      The WaPo had a ridiculous headline – something to the effect of – After Troubled Childhood, Shooter Flourished – which got pwned and probably withdrawn.
      I take it he had some kind of a difficult childhood – from a broken home?
      We have to get serious about old-fashioned societal norms which worked.
      And this is just touching the many, many issues involved. Maybe people will pay attention and maybe we will see serious positive changes. It is a shame 5 got shot at UVA to get attention. This sort of senseless violence happens almost every weekend in Chicago, and most major cities are hellholes of crime and poor education. The minority communities are the ones affected. Just a suggestion here – maybe do something different!
      I’m still going to wait for more details to get the full picture because there are so many things wrong, but what Mr. Sherlock has set forth is pretty damning. It could be incompetence. But when you pile up “mistakes” and “oversights” – one on top of the other – at what point is it something worse?

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        “If Petersburg had held him to the felony, would he have been able to purchase the firearms?” No. But I looked into this.

        After looking at all of the facts, I do not hold the Petersburg CA at fault here. Her office is overwhelmed with murder cases. This can be called a reasonable deal to get a plea.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          But the VSP KNEW of this guy, denied him gun purchases and still had an open investigation on him – LONG BEFORE subsequent events and the TAT involvement.

          1. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Larry has clearly gotten the memo – pin this on the PO-lice, and absolve UVA of any possible blame…
            Now I understand…

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            Nope. get the facts and assign the blame and I’m betting that this is not a single point of failure at all as the UVA police, the State Police, the gun purchase policies, are all somewhat involved.

            This is going to end up the way many of these mass killings do where we are conflicted between just how intrusive we want to be in front of potential crime verses how much crime will occur if we are not more intrusive.

            This guy had a known history to law enforcement before it ever got to the TAT and once it got to TAT , it was the UVA police primary responsibility to take action because the TAT itself does not have police powers nor resources… it relies on the UVA police membership in the TAT.

          3. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Getting almost close to correct for once. There is a lot to find fault with. It seems you are trying to pin all on the police. Not all on them… And does Chief Longo report to Pres Ryan?
            Like the summer of hate in 2017, did the Mayor or TMac give orders to not keep Antifa separate from the so-called supremacists? I am not trained in crowd control, but I know to keep them separate. It seems procedures were not followed here.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            No I’m not at all. I’m pointing out that it’s not solely the TAT that might SHARE some responsibility and basically it’s ignorant and partisan to try to stick this 100% on the TAT but it’s what some folks do these days.

            It’s dishonest and disingenuous gaslighting that actually undermines institutions – which is the real point with some folks.

            There is a structure to how law enforcement works. When other non LEO functions are added to it – like having mental health folks involved – it gets more complicated and harder to maintain lines of authority.

            Not unlike what happened in the military when there was an effort to make JAG the top authority over the base commander in sexual assault cases.

            When you do that, no matter the good intentions, the lines of authority get less clear and it’s easier for things to actually slip past both.

            Ditto Uvalde and the “active shooter” protocol when you have multiple LEO groups on site and no clear understanding of which group should be the incident commander.

            This is human nature stuff that folks on the right USE for partisan gains… sometimes…

            (The left does it also).

          5. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            I’d say the Left does it all the time. At least you acknowledged it. Paul Pelosi story? Anyone? Anyone?
            No one likes HIS OX being gored. But you must have a thin skin on the Left because you are so infrequently held to it. Biden’s corruption which is known vs the hatred for Trump and all the efforts to get him. He actually must be incredibly clean for a horrible politician that nothing can be pinned on him despite all the illegal, immoral attempts to get him.

        2. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          So, can’t say Soros prosecutor leniency, but the felony conviction would have stopped the purchases?
          And back to societal decay. Why are CAs so overwhelmed?

          1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            That is correct, Walter. The Petersburg CA is not a Soros bot.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            …. this time….

    2. Rob Austin Avatar

      Well, my money is on Chief Longo being told to fall on his sword and take the hit. For certain it will no be Ryan (God forbid!) or any of his hand-picked woke minions or his Thought Police. Love to be a fly on the wall when the BoV wrestles with this whole thing. Caravans of lawyers ascending upon Charlottesville as we speak, no doubt.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        it boils down to what the UVA police responsibility was in gathering info.

        Was it at the behest of the TAT or was it in the normal course of UVA police duties?

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Yes to both questions

  2. Fiberglass gloves? For shooting?

    Did they perhaps mean fingerless gloves?

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      removed

      1. Yes, you reported it as it appeared in the Daily Progress.

        However, I still question whether the word “fiberglass” is correct. If fingerless is not correct, then perhaps they were referring to the armor used on the knuckles and backs of the fingers.

        However, tactical gloves typically use ABS plastic, HDPE, aluminum, or Kevlar & carbon fiber for armor. I have never seen fiberglass used for that purpose on a pair of gloves, not for shooting gloves or motorcycle racing gloves.

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          removed

          1. Thank you.

            That is a lot of gloves. Will you please direct me to the ones with fiberglass content?

            I found a couple of pairs with polymer armor on the knuckles but no fiberglass.

            I also did a web search for “fiberglass gloves” and some very strange looking work gloves and heat-resistant gloves came up, but nothing in the way of a shooting glove.

        2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          You are correct. See the updated column. Thanks for the tip.

          1. Nice update.

          2. Thanks, but I think the original reference to fiberglass gloves was in a newspaper article.

  3. This particular student was not just treated with kid gloves, but rather no gloves at all.

    Not even fiberglass gloves?

    😉

  4. Here is a question: Did Jones have a roommate? That’s a nice dormitory. Surely, he didn’t have a room all to himself. If he did have a roommate, did the roommate know Jones had all that firepower. (How could he not?) If he didn’t have a roommate, why not?

    1. Numerous news reports have mentioned his roommate, so I’d guess he had one.

      Also, according to some of these news reports, the roommate indicated/said that he did not see any of Mr. Jones’ guns.

      1. DJRippert Avatar

        Put the damn roommate under oath and ask that question. Then, when the jackass admits that he lied to the TAT investigator throw his ass out on an honor code violation. Oh wait. I forgot. The snowflakes who call themselves UVa students removed the single sanction.

      2. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        At this point he wouldn’t admit knowing Jones.

        Lots of folks must have known. During the coming holiday exodus, dare they search all the dorms? I bet not….

        1. At this point he wouldn’t admit knowing Jones.

          🙂

        2. At this point he wouldn’t admit knowing Jones.

          🙂

    2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      He had a roommate. Who testified that he had never seen a gun in the room.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        so the VSP .. .KNEW he had weapons, right?

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Yes.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            BEFORE the Tat knew?

          2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            The TAT had access,

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            How would they know to access and would they do it through the UVA police?

            How would they KNOW of the gun purchases ?

            Would they know themselves independent of the UVA police or would they know via the UVA police?

            Would the TAT be accessing background and gun data independent of the UVA police?

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            God like powers.

          5. I’d rather have Dog like powers…

          6. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Well, dumping on the rug would cut down on water usage. But really, think about it. With a nose 100,000 times more sensitive than it is now, you might not find that pretty woman so pretty.

          7. You do remember the joke don’t you about the agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac who sat up all night wondering if there was a Dog?

          8. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            The UVA police had to run the check. Remember, he was being investigated for gun possession. First step would be to check if he owned any.

          9. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            Of course.

  5. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    “The TAT had access to State Police records including
    — his legal gun purchases;”

    Wow! That surprises me. You mean the State Police shares gun purchase or application information across State agencies? God, I hope the Dept. of Taxation doesn’t share my stuff! That’d be like giving it to the FBI.

    Now, the OPM has already given my personal information to China, so I guess I couldn’t complain about my weapons purchases.

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Records search by police departments pursuant to an investigation.

  6. Smith and Wesson 9mm Luger

    Minor Correction: An S&W Model 39 is not a Luger. In layman’s terms, the Model 39 is more akin to a 9mm version of the Colt 1911 .45 ACP.

    On a side note, I sure wish I’d been wealthy enough as a student to be able to spend +/-$2,200 on firearms.

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Removed.

      1. As Matt said, 9 mm Luger is the cartridge both pistols use, but that does not mean the origin of the Model 39 is the German Luger.

      2. Matt Adams Avatar

        9mm Luger is the round the Model 39 is chambered it, outside of that it has nothing to do with Luger.

        This is a Luger.

        https://irongatearmory.com/product/luger-p08-with-wooden-grip-germany-1898/

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          removed

          1. Yes, the Walther P38. Not the Luger.

            They are two very different takes on the semi-automatic pistol.

          2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            removed.

          3. It was not intended to be a seminar.

            I understand that, but given that you are routinely and sometimes viciously attacked for every minor error you make in any of your posts, I wanted to make you aware of this one. I was not trying to attack you with my correction, but I do apologize if I caused offense.

          4. It was not intended to be a seminar.

            I understand that, but given that you are routinely and sometimes viciously attacked for every minor error you make in any of your posts, I wanted to make you aware of this one. I was not trying to attack you with my correction, but I do apologize if I caused offense.

          5. It was not intended to be a seminar.

            I understand that, but given that you are routinely and sometimes viciously attacked for every minor error you make in any of your posts, I wanted to make you aware of this one. I was not trying to attack you with my correction, but I do apologize if I caused offense.

      3. My description was accurate.

        If the Model 39 can be traced back to any German pistol it would be the Walther P38.

    2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      removed

    3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      removed

      1. From the link you posted:

        Favorably impressed with the Walther P38, he wanted S&W to have a double-action 9mm semi-auto.

        As I said, if it was derived from any German pistol it was the Walther P38.

        PS – The Luger is single-action, both the P38 and the Model 39 are double-action.

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          removed

    4. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      You are correct. See the revised article. Thanks for the tip.

  7. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Of course, if the TAT had never approached this kid, the event may have never happened…

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Thanks for the contribution.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        In a perfect world, you’d still be unhappy. Or, everyone else would be.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          well.. if he could blame the woke and get everyone to agree.. maybe…

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Met a lot of arrogant people in my life, some justifiably so, but no one here.

            He’s a self-made man. It’s all in his curriculum vitae.

  8. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Of course the last time the TAT (or previous equivalent) did its thing, BR went on and on about the student’s 1st Amendment rights and blew up the opinions on how UVa was gonna get it this time.

    What happened then? Oh yeah. The guy was as crazier than a rabid bat and the judge tossed the case.

    The TAT’s job is to differentiate between figuratively and literally. When a student says, “We’re gonna blow this place up!”, the TAT has to determine whether it’s with C4 or Bose.

    1. DJRippert Avatar

      As far as I recall from the prior case, the person in question had no history of violence, did not possess any firearms, had not been convicted of any firearms violations. Instead, he verbally argued with a professor about what a micro-aggression was. Meanwhile, the University threw the man out.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        IF the man had obtained a weapon, would UVA had known it?

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Simple background check though sources that the University Police uses every day.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            So the UVA police would have done so and communicated that to the TAT or someone on the TAT would do it independent of the UVA police?

            What circumstance would have motivated the background check?

            Don’t we need to know these things if we are going to pass judgement?

          2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            The university police are on the TAT.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            Correct. Is it the police that gather the gun and criminal data – for the TAT?

          4. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            Yes

      2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        Exactly.

      3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        Correct.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar

      ergo – the narrative must “fit” the desired partisan claims…. the fact it is 180 is neither here nor there….

      re: ”
      The TAT had access to State Police records including

      his legal gun purchases;
      his conviction in Chesterfield County on a concealed weapon charge, a misdemeanor;
      his Petersburg conviction on a felony hit-and-run charge that was reduced to a misdemeanor; and
      the facts that he was on suspended jail sentences for both of the crimes.”

      Is that ANYONE on the tat or just the police ?

      You can never be sure with Sherlock…

      The fact that the State Police had denied him gun purchases, then it was apparently allowed, but they still had an open investigation – ALL of this PRIOR to the later activities that the TAT was supposed to deal with….

      what is the truth? Don’t expect it here …

      If the AJ has integrity, perhaps there but even that is at question …

      1. DJRippert Avatar

        As far as I can tell from what Capt Sherlock wrote, the TAT is almost entirely a bunch of preening educrats with no law enforcement experience. Chief Longo might be the sole exception.

        Once the facts in the case became apparent to the TAT it should have immediately referred the case to the police – either UVa or Charlottesville.

        Saying that they meant to refer the situation to the Judiciary Committee proves how clueless and out of touch the TAT really is.

        No more amateur hour when it comes to student physical safety.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          If the police were on the Tat and the police had access to the criminal history and gun purchases?

        2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          I disagree. The members of the TAT were not beamed down from Mars. Many of them had real jobs in University security.

          That is my basic point.

          1. Just in case someone does not know, the Associate Vice President of Safety and Security at UVA is Police Chief Longo.

          2. Just in case someone does not know, the Associate Vice President of Safety and Security at UVA is Police Chief Longo.

          3. He had a pretty good rep as Chief in C’ville before he went to UVa didn’t he?

          4. I think so. Public officials rotate in and out of C’ville so fast it’s hard to keep track.

          5. My recollection is that he was Chief in C’ville for quite a while before the door started revolving, and that he resolved some issues in the community. My one encounter with him was very pleasant. He was helpful and we were both polite.

          6. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            I wrote previously that he manned up in the news conference.

          7. Not really. Remember Jessie Matthews? Longo was in charge when Matthews escaped while being tailed, which was inexcusable at the time.

          8. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            I pointed that out in my previous post. Thanks.

    3. You are correct, but in the previous case the student had no criminal history and never claimed to have a gun. Even so, his argumentative and ‘hurtful’ words were deemed sufficient justification to mount a thorough investigation of him.

      That being the case, saying “I have a gun” (or words to that effect) should be sufficient justification for a very thorough investigation of the student who uttered them.

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        My point exactly. Why do you think this particular student was given a pass?

        1. While I will admit the reason I think you want me to give has crossed my mind, thus far I have seen no evidence or indications that the young man received any special consideration.

          1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            If that was not special consideration, then the TAT is breathtaking incompetent and needs to be replaced.

          2. What’s the old saw, never assume malice when incompetence or ignorance is an easy explanation?

            I’ve been abbreviating it as DIE instead of DEI for some time. I never expected it to be literal, but perhaps here we are.

            You’ve got some good issues, don’t get sidetracked.

          3. Okay, but even if he did receive some sort of consideration, we still do not know why it was given.

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        This is my rifle,
        This is my gun…

    4. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      The discussion in that case was about free speech. You do see the difference here, do you not?

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        2nd Amendment comes 1st?

  9. There appears to be some debate about whether a “binary trigger” is illegal in Virginia.

    In short, Virginia law bars “trigger activators”, and possession is a felony as Sherlock has reported. However, paragraph D of the code says nothing in the section prohibits anything that is legal under the federal National Firearms Act (NFA). Binary triggers are legal under federal law.

    There are several places Jones was in violation of Virginia law and UVa regulations, but it is not clear on the face of it that the binary trigger was one of them.

    Bump stocks and triggers that facilitate essentially full auto fire are considered machine guns and are prohibited under both the NFA and Virginia law. A “binary trigger” fires once when it is pulled and once again when it is released. Thus it fires two rounds with each pull and release of the trigger, not multiple rounds with each trigger pull as with a bump stock or equivalent trigger.

    Here is the state code: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter7/section18.2-308.5:1/

    1. Matt Adams Avatar

      “There are several places Jones was in violation of Virginia law and UVa regulations, but it is not clear on the face of it that the binary trigger was one of them.”

      Was actually having this discussion over wings and beer the other weekend with a friend who works for an Alphabet. Indeed for the time being binary triggers are legal, I do believe that the ATF has their sights set on them though, so I guess if you want a highly inaccurate and highly unpredictable item in your trigger group, go for it. Just be safe and keep your weapon always pointed down range.

      1. Yeah, muzzle rise being what it is, “inaccurate” is generous for those without considerable practice. Personally, something that goes bang when releasing the trigger would make me nervous.That’s just so backwards from everything I ever learned.

        Seems to me that Sherlock is working on several good issues. He does not need to get sidetracked on things like the legality of binary triggers, what’s a Luger or fiberglass gloves.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar

          I agree, as I stayed yesterday. The shooter is responsible for their actions, but the university can be responsible for their inaction as well.

          Stick to the facts and leave the weeds and red herring where they belong.

          Also, those triggers are not something I have any interest in, I’ve fired enough select fire weapons and not would that scare me, but the amount of gas you’d take in the face isn’t fun.

      2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        You are correct. I have updated the article both for clarity and to remove this reference. It is better for it. Thanks.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar

          Citation is wrong. According to law, they are only illegal in Delaware. They’re not an NFA item.

          Does that mean I think they’re useful? No, they are not. They are inaccurate, they are unpredictable. They do not fire around for anything other than a trigger, depressed or release. Therefore, they do not meet the definition of a machine gun.

          That’s someone who’s fired. Machine guns, they are only area accurate items. We do not employ machine guns for point targets.

          They are not NFA regulated. The states can do nothing to stop there being in circulation.

          1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            removed

          2. Matt Adams Avatar

            Yes, they are.

            Have fun with that, because it’s irrelevant to any of my statements.

        2. You have several legitimate issues you are working on with UVa and the TAT. However, the paragraph from your original post (included below) is wrong. It is not material to what you are doing and that detracts from your purpose. I encourage you to edit the paragraph out.

          “possessed in his dorm room a small arsenal, including a device, possession of which constituted a Class 6 felony in Virginia.”

          As Matt and I have noted a binary trigger is not illegal in Virginia, it is not a felony of any number. I included the relevant section of the Virginia code in my prior post, and Matt explained it very nicely in his response to you.

          A pistol and a rifle are both clearly prohibited in the dorm. They do not constitute an “arsenal” in any reasonable understanding of that term.

          I encourage what you are pursuing, and urge you to, as Matt commented, “leave the weeds and red herring where they belong.”

          1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            All of those references have been removed from the updated article. Thanks.

          2. The TAT’s failure to act is egregious. They did not involve either law enforcement/UVa policy or engage mental health resources. Either way it looks like nonfeasance. It would not be surprising to find that was rooted in DIE, although it is likely that contingent will be keeping a low profile in the aftermath.

            While we have not seen diagnostic evidence yet it is very possible that Jones has significant mental illness. My long distance guess is young adult onset schizophrenia. That would explain, not excuse, what could be paranoia and violent acting out.

            The TAT ignoring that possibility is explicitly contrasted with their actions in the prior case to remove a student from UVa. It also is consistent with Cho, “Gus” deeds and others as a pattern of Virginia’s repeated institutional failure to help those in acute need of mental health services.

            I look forward to seeing what you learn as you pursue the issues. Please keep at it.

    2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      The legality of binary triggers in Virginia is controversial. The fact of the trigger being present would not have been dispositive in this case, so I removed any reference to it in the article. See the update. And thank you.

  10. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Hey! Here’s plan. Just have admissions gather all the gun ownership data from VSP, and income data from DoTax,.. hell, just gather all data they can on all applicants and take only the best and the ones who can afford it.

    Why Hell, that way we won’t have some frat boy beat pretty little girls to death with a hockey stick.

    1. It was a Lacrosse stick.

      Everyone knows hockey players are not violent…

      😉

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Practically toothless.

    2. Then pass it along to the Homeland Security Fusion Centers (assuming they don’t have it already) and the IRS so their 87,000 new crack agents can get on the case. Them UVa students are likely to be high earners so it’s good to start tracking them early.

      1. how_it_works Avatar
        how_it_works

        Are those the 87,000 agents that must be willing to shoot to kill in order to be hired?

        1. Dunno that it’s all of them, nobody has said how many it will be. About 5k will be in customer service, that leaves 80k+ do do other things, including shooting taxpayers.

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        There are 100,000 1040s that should be audited annually.

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          250,000 Forms 990.

        2. Slightly more than 1/2 of audits are done on people making less than $75k a year and 3/4 are done on people making less than $100k.

          The IRS does about 650k audits a year. That means close to a half million audits of people making less than $100k. Do you think that’s not enough middle class audits? Do we need another 75k audits of run of the mill Americans?

  11. Several comments imply that the VSP were the ones who dropped the ball here. That’s possible, but I have not yet seen sufficient evidence to support that assertion. Firearms are not prohibited in Virginia. They most certainly are on the grounds of UVA. UVA had the ability and responsibility to enforce its own restrictions. It failed miserably, and the administration should be held accountable.

    Gun restrictions are not unique to UVA. Airlines, courts, sports stadiums and numerous other venues have similar restrictions. Responsible institutions enforce their safety restrictions, and responsible people obey them (or avoid those places).

    Micro aggressions on the other hand appear to be enforced vigorously at UVA. These incidents are by definition “very small.” Prioritizing the very small, while virtually ignoring the VERY LARGE displays a profound lack of judgement that demands inquiry and action.

    How many other reports of serious safety concerns have been reported to UVA without an appropriate response? We need answers.

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      You are correct. The VSP did nothing wrong.

      1. I wish to thank you for your considerable efforts to shed light on this shooting, and the failure of UVA to take appropriate action to prevent it.

        One would think everyone would support finding out what went wrong here. In a sane world, it wouldn’t be so controversial.

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Some people are by nature argumentative.

          And others are, in this case, afraid that some of their sacred cows may get gored.

          They find protecting the herd more compelling that finding out what was done wrong that let a man go free to kill.

          I want accountability everywhere fault lies. At the end of the day it is Ryan’s ship that ran aground. And the DEI bureaucracy was on watch. It was assigned by Ryan to oversee the actions of the TAT.

          The Roman army had a defensive formation called the turtle. Bureaucracies have perfected it. It is, in my experience, what they are best at.

          I have spent so much time on this to ensure that the leadership at UVa will not be able go into a shell to avoid responsibility.

          I think it is clear to them now that someone will have to go in this case.

          They are likely targeting the Chief of Police. He is the most junior person in the hierarchy that failed in their responsibilities here.

          I am trying to hold the rest of them and the system they have built up to the light so this never happens again.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Some folks are argumentative especially when dunderheads are defining what “failure” and “accountability” is with partisan underpinnings.

            There ARE killings on a regular basis all over the country DESPITE the fact that there are folks who are responsible for finding the killers before they kill.

            It’s not a high success thing so far.

            But we don’t go on witch hunts to find who is responsible and hold them “accountable”.

            Mr. Ryan is no more responsible for this than Youngkin or the Head of VSP is for VSP “failures”.

            It’s not the way the real world works.

            It’s the way some partisans want it to work.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar

      re: ” Firearms are not prohibited in Virginia. They most certainly are on the grounds of UVA. UVA had the ability and responsibility to enforce its own restrictions. It failed miserably, and the administration should be held accountable.”

      UVA accomplishes that responsibility with it’s police force, no?

      UVA no more “failed” than assigning blame to Youngkin for something the VSP might have failed to do.

      Using that approach, ANYTHING that happens to a subordinate agency becomes the responsibility of the person in charge so that if a VDOT worker screws up a light at an intersection and there is a wreck, it’s the head guy at VDOT or even the Governor that is “responsible”.

      How reasonable is that kind of thinking?

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        That just about sums it up.

      2. Perhaps you didn’t read my comment very carefully. Read it again. I didn’t assign responsibility to any specific individual, as I have yet to understand the dynamics of how this happened.

        Your own post (earlier in the thread) shows that there are at least 12 offices represented by TAT. Were they all involved? Who supported further action and who did not? Everyone on that list reports to the UVA President do they not? Was he aware of their procedures and lack of follow through on important matters such as this? There’s still much we don’t know.

        While it may be premature to assign complete responsibility to a specific individual or individuals, it’s totally appropriate to say that the institution failed. That’s what I said.

        Your words:

        “Using that approach, ANYTHING that happens to a subordinate agency becomes the responsibility of the person in charge …”

        The 12 or more TAT representatives are not as you put it, subordinate agencies. They are all part of UVA.

        I said UVA failed and you objected to my comments. So you think this was a success?

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          I did not assign responsibility either, asked if it might be shared once we know more.

          When you say the “institution failed” , aren’t you, in fact, assigning responsibility? Did you consider the other “institutions” involved?

          No, what I said is if a subordinate agency or person ends up being found responsible, does that make the institution they work for and it’s head person responsible?

          Is the guy/gal that runs VDOT responsible if a VDOT worker or even a VDOT agency screws up?

  12. systemic incompetence…. and not a single person [all of whom failed the UVA and great C-ville community] will be held accountable and fired or prosecuted. I hope the families get a very good lawyer and sues everyone responsible for everything they own.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Of interest to me is who is responsible for insuring that no student at UVA (or other universities) has a gun if guns are not allowed?

      Are they supposed to take their total enrollment and submit it to the VSP to run against the state database?

      Is the state responsible for telling UVA when one of the students has purchased a gun?

      Is UVA supposed to query the database every week or so to see if any students have purchased guns or tried to?

      ‘how does that work?

      Is it the Tats responsibility to do that?

      ‘UVA Police?

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        Reasonable cause to search. The hot line tip was reasonable cause to search.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          I don’t disagree at all but I’m asking who does what and who decides who does what.

          A good investigation will find this out.

  13. “The Office of the Attorney General, at the request of the University of Virginia and its Board of Visitors, will be conducting a review of the events that led to the tragic death of three university students last Sunday evening. Attorney General Jason Miyares will enlist special counsel to assist the Office in completing this important work.”

    “A public report will be shared with students, families, the larger UVA community, and government officials at the appropriate time. The Attorney General will work with deliberate speed while ensuring that all necessary resources remain devoted to the criminal investigation being conducted by state and local authorities.”

    Victoria LaCivita, Miyares spokesperson

    https://www.wsls.com/news/2022/11/17/att-gen-miyares-to-investigate-what-led-to-sundays-uva-shooting/

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