Advanced Recycling: A Win-Win for Virginia

by Chris Braunlich

Candidates love to be on the side of the gods – and supporting reduced pollution and greater economic growth is a “win-win.” After all, if Virginia can use new technologies to reduce not only greenhouse gases but also what we send to landfills … while simultaneously creating new, well-paying jobs, who could oppose it?

Technological advances like those invested in by Elon Musk or Google have simultaneously lowered costs and reduced environmental threats for years. But some seem determined to have ideology stand in the way of common sense.

In 2018, more than 35 million tons of plastic municipal waste was produced: only three million tons were recycled; another five million were used for energy production. By far, the greatest amount of plastic waste was simply dumped — American landfills received 27 million tons of plastics because one of the greatest current drawbacks of recycling plastic is … it can’t all be recycled easily or efficiently.

That’s why, if you look at the fine print, most trash recyclers don’t want all your plastic. Hard plastics like milk and beverage bottles are typically recycled through mechanical recycling where the plastic is cleaned, shredded, melted and turned into pellets. But flexible plastics are not because the cost and complexity, combined with potential contamination and impurities, make them unsuitable. Among the most common non-recyclables: Styrofoam and grocery bags.

But new advanced recycling technologies now make it possible to break down post-use plastics previously unrecyclable and convert them into everyday products … significantly reducing the amount of waste sent to landfills. These new technologies decompose the chemical composition of previously hard-to-recycle plastics into basic chemicals or oils which, in turn, provide a diverse range of products, including low-sulfur fuels and manufacturing raw materials or feedstocks used to create new products. The new approach could recycle as much as 90 percent of material.

“It basically takes a waste plastic and unzips it back to its original feedstock or components,” says Jim Becker, vice president at Chevon Phillips Chemical. In the process, these new technologies reduce the amount of waste going into landfills and reduce greenhouse gases by up to 70 percent.

European countries – always more sensitive to the utilization of space for landfill – have leapt on the idea. The U.K.-based company Plastic Energy plans to build 10 such advanced recycling plants by 2025. The potential to reduce landfill waste while promoting economic activity is one short-on-space Europe isn’t letting pass.

So far, the U.S. isn’t standing by. Following China’s 2018 decision to refuse the import of further landfill waste, investment in plastics recycling boomed, generating more than 60 projects valued at more than $5 billion. Industry experts project that U.S. and Canadian activity could ultimately be as much as $120 billion, creating 38,000 jobs and $2.2 billion in annual payroll.

Governor Ralph Northam has similarly recognized the potential, announcing last June Braven Environmental’s $32 million plan to build an advanced recycling plant in Cumberland County after providing county planners $215,000 in state grants for the project. The plant is expected to create up to 90 new jobs and be able to process 71,000 tons a year in waste that would otherwise have gone into landfills.

Virginia Manufacturers Association President Brett Vassey said Virginia could sustain at least five more such plants and one projection suggests they could generate more than $179 million in economic activity each year. In short: An entire industry of green jobs and investment is ready to offer the Commonwealth new opportunities.

But taking full advantage of advanced recycling also requires updating recycling laws, ensuring that the waste going into advanced recycling is defined differently than, and kept separate from, the waste otherwise headed towards landfills. Redefining the process as a form of manufacturing, rather than solid waste disposal, is critical to leveling the playing field.

Legislation offered by Democratic Delegate Ken Plum (HB2173) and Republican Senator Emmett Hanger (SB1164) does just that, smoothing the way to expanding Virginia’s recycling universe. And the legislation attracted bipartisan support – just the antidote Virginians are hoping for during hyper-partisan times.

But some groups couldn’t resist getting involved at the last minute, derailing Plum’s bill back to committee by raising the misleading specter of burning plastic belching smoke into pristine Virginia skies. In actuality, what is done is not incineration, which requires oxygen. Instead, plastic is super-heated in an oxygen-free container until the contents melt and can be separated into components for different uses.

Facts, unfortunately, don’t provide vivid, if inaccurate, visuals. And organizations standing in the way have the luxury of not being held accountable for their positions.

But those running for office are. One unenviable position for a candidate would be explaining why they voted against reducing landfill and greenhouse gases as well as post-Covid economic growth.

Voters who want to help those candidates help themselves, should be certain to let them know a “Yes” vote on those bills is preferable, creating a potential new major industry that could be an economic and environmental game changer for Virginia.

Chris Braunlich is president of the Thomas Jefferson Institute for Public Policy. He may be reached at chris@thomasjeffersoninst.org


This column is republished with permission from the Thomas Jefferson Institute for Public Policy.


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68 responses to “Advanced Recycling: A Win-Win for Virginia”

  1. LarrytheG Avatar

    I talk about climate skeptics but I’ve become a “skeptic” of so-called single stream household trash recycling where cardboard, plastic, aluminum and other stuff is all piled into one container and then in theory separated into constitute parts later on.

    I challenge Chris to go find a real recycling center that actually does that near where he lives. Sure, you can find where it’s collected and talk of “transfer” but go find that actual real recycling operation – where is it?

    If you find one, I’d be thankful and become less of a skeptic

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      I hate throwing stuff in landfills if there is any chance it can be recycled or repurposed. I added links to the bills into the text above. Haven’t talked to Chris about this but need to know who the opponents were who surfaced. Sierra Club, apparently.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Could use it to fill abandoned coal mines.

    2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      On the other hand, does the City charge an additional fee for you to group your various trash components into separate containers… AND THEN just dump it all in the same hole in the ground?

      If you say, “Yes,” then you’re probably right.

    3. Will you please show me where in this article the author advocated, or even mentioned, single-stream recycling?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        do they do separated recycling where you are Wayne or is it single-stream?

        1. idiocracy Avatar

          Larry, they’ve been sorting single-stream recycling for decades.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSiz6kbIZkw&ab_channel=JohnDoe

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            yes.. now tell me where it is done for where you live…

            are you counting how many people are on that conveyor belt?

            How much does it cost to pay that many people to do that?

            Anyhow, tell me where these places are near where you live. Have you actually seen one?

        2. idiocracy Avatar

          Larry, these places are NOT near where I live because nobody is going to pay NoVA labor rates for people to sort recyclables.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            they’re not near me either so where are they?

            here’s a hint:

            Plastics Pile Up as China Refuses to Take the West’s Recycling

            https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/01/12/world/europe/12UK-recycling-2/merlin_131863700_1975c292-ab02-4536-8dcb-299d9c622576-superJumbo.jpg

            nytimes.com/2018/01/11/world/china-recyclables-ban.html

        3. idiocracy Avatar

          Larry, see the following:

          https://americandisposal.com/press-room/ribbon-cutting-for-the-american-recycling-center-and-grand-opening-of-attached-interactive-learning-center/

          And google for the address “10220 Residency Rd, Manassas, VA 20110” and you’ll find a link with pictures of the facility.

          I’m amazed that they actually located this in Manassas, would have thought it would be cheaper to locate it further west or south.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            there is no market for plastics now that China refuses them.

            what do we do with plastics if we separate it ?

            It’s more a scam than anything else.

            What we are doing down my way is collecting cardboard, plastic and aluminum in a dumster then taking it to the landfill and putting it in a different cell than other household trash. The hope is that “someday” there will be a “market” for the plastic. They do sell the aluminum and cardbooard.

            However, if I dump plastic jugs, aluminum and carboard in the regular dumpster – the attendant tells me it’s my choice. He does not care.

            But single-stream – is where it’s all together and has to be separated.

            There was a lot of publicity early on but I think most of it goes to landfills – which if you look around there are several mega landfills in Virginia including one in King George that takes trash is 100 car train sets…and they do not separate it.. it all goes into the landfill.

        4. idiocracy Avatar

          “Plastics Pile Up as China Refuses to Take the West’s Recycling”

          …which is what happens when your political policies have resulted in off-shoring of manufacturing.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            well.. it’s what we were doing all along for plastics. We’d separate it sure enough but we have no use for it and so we’d ship it to China where they apparently had no use for it either and so they stopped it.

      2. We had a single-stream facility near Zion Crossroads where my trash was taken until about 2-3 years ago. It was owned/operated by a guy named Vanderlinde. When China stopped accepting our plastic they could not run it profitably (or even close to profitably) so it shut down.

        I toured the facility once. It was amazing. There was a fair amount of hand sorting required, but the guy that owned/ran it had also designed and built several pieces of custom equipment to automate certain processes. The owner was a very smart guy and he was singularly dedicated (some might say obsessed) to improving trash separation methods so that single-stream waste handling could become mainstream.

        I was very sorry when he was forced to shut things down, but the guy was not independently wealthy and he simply could not make it work financially once China stopped accepting our plastic. I think they also stopped accepting other things at the same time, but I cannot remember what.

        1. PS -I think he still sorts and separates construction debris for recycling.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar

          That’s what I found out locally. They used to send it to a regional facility but then that facility was going to charge them and it was cheaper to landfill it.

          This is another example of the free market. It may well not “work” and we have to decide how much “do gooder” stuff we want to pay for if it is not “free”.

        3. PPS – Here is an article about the closing of the household garbage facility. There used to be a really nice article on line about the facility when it was in operation but I cannot seem to locate it.

          https://www.c-ville.com/van-der-linde-dumps-recycling-program/

  2. LarrytheG Avatar

    I talk about climate skeptics but I’ve become a “skeptic” of so-called single stream household trash recycling where cardboard, plastic, aluminum and other stuff is all piled into one container and then in theory separated into constitute parts later on.

    I challenge Chris to go find a real recycling center that actually does that near where he lives. Sure, you can find where it’s collected and talk of “transfer” but go find that actual real recycling operation – where is it?

    If you find one, I’d be thankful and become less of a skeptic

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      I hate throwing stuff in landfills if there is any chance it can be recycled or repurposed. I added links to the bills into the text above. Haven’t talked to Chris about this but need to know who the opponents were who surfaced. Sierra Club, apparently.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Could use it to fill abandoned coal mines.

    2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      On the other hand, does the City charge an additional fee for you to group your various trash components into separate containers… AND THEN just dump it all in the same hole in the ground?

      If you say, “Yes,” then you’re probably right.

    3. Will you please show me where in this article the author advocated, or even mentioned, single-stream recycling?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        do they do separated recycling where you are Wayne or is it single-stream?

        1. idiocracy Avatar

          Larry, they’ve been sorting single-stream recycling for decades.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSiz6kbIZkw&ab_channel=JohnDoe

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            yes.. now tell me where it is done for where you live…

            are you counting how many people are on that conveyor belt?

            How much does it cost to pay that many people to do that?

            Anyhow, tell me where these places are near where you live. Have you actually seen one?

        2. idiocracy Avatar

          Larry, these places are NOT near where I live because nobody is going to pay NoVA labor rates for people to sort recyclables.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            they’re not near me either so where are they?

            here’s a hint:

            Plastics Pile Up as China Refuses to Take the West’s Recycling

            https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/01/12/world/europe/12UK-recycling-2/merlin_131863700_1975c292-ab02-4536-8dcb-299d9c622576-superJumbo.jpg

            nytimes.com/2018/01/11/world/china-recyclables-ban.html

        3. idiocracy Avatar

          Larry, see the following:

          https://americandisposal.com/press-room/ribbon-cutting-for-the-american-recycling-center-and-grand-opening-of-attached-interactive-learning-center/

          And google for the address “10220 Residency Rd, Manassas, VA 20110” and you’ll find a link with pictures of the facility.

          I’m amazed that they actually located this in Manassas, would have thought it would be cheaper to locate it further west or south.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            there is no market for plastics now that China refuses them.

            what do we do with plastics if we separate it ?

            It’s more a scam than anything else.

            What we are doing down my way is collecting cardboard, plastic and aluminum in a dumster then taking it to the landfill and putting it in a different cell than other household trash. The hope is that “someday” there will be a “market” for the plastic. They do sell the aluminum and cardbooard.

            However, if I dump plastic jugs, aluminum and carboard in the regular dumpster – the attendant tells me it’s my choice. He does not care.

            But single-stream – is where it’s all together and has to be separated.

            There was a lot of publicity early on but I think most of it goes to landfills – which if you look around there are several mega landfills in Virginia including one in King George that takes trash is 100 car train sets…and they do not separate it.. it all goes into the landfill.

        4. idiocracy Avatar

          “Plastics Pile Up as China Refuses to Take the West’s Recycling”

          …which is what happens when your political policies have resulted in off-shoring of manufacturing.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            well.. it’s what we were doing all along for plastics. We’d separate it sure enough but we have no use for it and so we’d ship it to China where they apparently had no use for it either and so they stopped it.

      2. We had a single-stream facility near Zion Crossroads where my trash was taken until about 2-3 years ago. It was owned/operated by a guy named Vanderlinde. When China stopped accepting our plastic they could not run it profitably (or even close to profitably) so it shut down.

        I toured the facility once. It was amazing. There was a fair amount of hand sorting required, but the guy that owned/ran it had also designed and built several pieces of custom equipment to automate certain processes. The owner was a very smart guy and he was singularly dedicated (some might say obsessed) to improving trash separation methods so that single-stream waste handling could become mainstream.

        I was very sorry when he was forced to shut things down, but the guy was not independently wealthy and he simply could not make it work financially once China stopped accepting our plastic. I think they also stopped accepting other things at the same time, but I cannot remember what.

        1. PS -I think he still sorts and separates construction debris for recycling.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar

          That’s what I found out locally. They used to send it to a regional facility but then that facility was going to charge them and it was cheaper to landfill it.

          This is another example of the free market. It may well not “work” and we have to decide how much “do gooder” stuff we want to pay for if it is not “free”.

        3. PPS – Here is an article about the closing of the household garbage facility. There used to be a really nice article on line about the facility when it was in operation but I cannot seem to locate it.

          https://www.c-ville.com/van-der-linde-dumps-recycling-program/

  3. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    They look like good bills. I think localities would be stressed to help pay the cost of this worthy cause. It amazes me in Fauquier. Warrenton collects recyclable materials and then proceeds to dump must of it in the landfill. I have seen it many times with my own eyes. Why bother collecting at all if that is what happens?

  4. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    They look like good bills. I think localities would be stressed to help pay the cost of this worthy cause. It amazes me in Fauquier. Warrenton collects recyclable materials and then proceeds to dump must of it in the landfill. I have seen it many times with my own eyes. Why bother collecting at all if that is what happens?

  5. FWIW:
    Senator Hanger’s and Delegate Plum’s bills change the definition from waste management to manufacturing. Delegate Plum will be withdrawing his bill HB 2173, according to VA LIS as of today. This legislative effort may be part of a country-wide initiative to expand use of this process. From what I’ve read, the bills’ implementation would worsen our plastic pollution problems, not decrease them. What we need is recycling methods that don’t create other, maybe worse problems.

    Clean Fairfax is one organization opposed to these bills. Their arguments against include:
    – Since 2017, the plastics and chemical industry, represented by the American Chemistry Council, has led an effort to make legislative changes to statewide policies in 13 states to promote chemical conversion.
    – “Chemical recycling” or “advanced recycling” are fossil fuel industry terms for Chemical Conversion. A polluting and carbon intensive process that is riddled with system failures and will make the plastic and climate crisis worse. About 50% of the carbon content of waste plastics is typically lost as greenhouse gases during chemical conversion.
    – These vague terms refer to an array of technologies (many of which remain in the lab or pilot phases). They encompass two general categories — plastic-to-fuel and plastic-to-plastic.
    – 79% of waste to energy facilities (another term for plastic to fuel) are located in low-income and communities of color. These facilities expose residents to harmful particulates that cause cancer, respiratory illnesses, and neurological disorders.
    – Chemical Conversion facilities release toxic chemicals including lead, arsenic, mercury, bisphenol-A, cadmium, benzene, brominated compounds, phthalates, tin, antimony, and volatile organic compounds.

    This bill would enable harmful, polluting facilities to expand across Virginia with the most severe impacts placed on vulnerable populations. Chemical Conversion is not economically or environmentally sustainable and this bill is being used to kill HB1902 to ban EPS food and beverage containers. The
    solution to the plastic crisis is reducing waste at its source, not dangerous downstream approaches.

  6. FWIW:
    Senator Hanger’s and Delegate Plum’s bills change the definition from waste management to manufacturing. Delegate Plum will be withdrawing his bill HB 2173, according to VA LIS as of today. This legislative effort may be part of a country-wide initiative to expand use of this process. From what I’ve read, the bills’ implementation would worsen our plastic pollution problems, not decrease them. What we need is recycling methods that don’t create other, maybe worse problems.

    Clean Fairfax is one organization opposed to these bills. Their arguments against include:
    – Since 2017, the plastics and chemical industry, represented by the American Chemistry Council, has led an effort to make legislative changes to statewide policies in 13 states to promote chemical conversion.
    – “Chemical recycling” or “advanced recycling” are fossil fuel industry terms for Chemical Conversion. A polluting and carbon intensive process that is riddled with system failures and will make the plastic and climate crisis worse. About 50% of the carbon content of waste plastics is typically lost as greenhouse gases during chemical conversion.
    – These vague terms refer to an array of technologies (many of which remain in the lab or pilot phases). They encompass two general categories — plastic-to-fuel and plastic-to-plastic.
    – 79% of waste to energy facilities (another term for plastic to fuel) are located in low-income and communities of color. These facilities expose residents to harmful particulates that cause cancer, respiratory illnesses, and neurological disorders.
    – Chemical Conversion facilities release toxic chemicals including lead, arsenic, mercury, bisphenol-A, cadmium, benzene, brominated compounds, phthalates, tin, antimony, and volatile organic compounds.

    This bill would enable harmful, polluting facilities to expand across Virginia with the most severe impacts placed on vulnerable populations. Chemical Conversion is not economically or environmentally sustainable and this bill is being used to kill HB1902 to ban EPS food and beverage containers. The
    solution to the plastic crisis is reducing waste at its source, not dangerous downstream approaches.

  7. Great news for the Greens and ammunition for fossil-fuel users! Recycling all plastics will “reduce greenhouse gases by up to 70 percent.”
    Will these plants be self-supporting, getting sufficient income from the recovered materials? The Fairfax County recycling plant makes money on recovered metals and made money on recovered cardboard before China stopped buying it. It lost money on all other materials.

  8. Great news for the Greens and ammunition for fossil-fuel users! Recycling all plastics will “reduce greenhouse gases by up to 70 percent.”
    Will these plants be self-supporting, getting sufficient income from the recovered materials? The Fairfax County recycling plant makes money on recovered metals and made money on recovered cardboard before China stopped buying it. It lost money on all other materials.

  9. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    (C10H8O4)n aka PET. Most of that C comes from fossil fuels, so I’m down with burying it in the ground again.

    1. Well,
      Liberals want to keep carbon in the ground so I do not see your point exactly. Liberals think huge landfills are good, but they cannot stomach any plastics in there. A hot dog lasts hundreds of years in a landfill, you should be less opinionated what goes in there ( if you only knew). That is really silly liberals want carbon sequestration but cannot stomach plastics in a landfill.

      In my (dumped on) Gloucester County in New Jersey, where elected officials had the “Your Trash is Our Cash” mentality, we had a PET bottle recycling plant. So that is years ago 1990’s. I had no problem with that plant.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Back from whence it came. Well, I wouldn’t eat one of those hot dogs, but considering my nephew studies petrified scat from three-toed sloths in Alaska, and that of California ground squirrels… Funny Gloucesrer VA had the same motto over the same trash.

  10. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    (C10H8O4)n aka PET. Most of that C comes from fossil fuels, so I’m down with burying it in the ground again.

    1. Well,
      Liberals want to keep carbon in the ground so I do not see your point exactly. Liberals think huge landfills are good, but they cannot stomach any plastics in there. A hot dog lasts hundreds of years in a landfill, you should be less opinionated what goes in there ( if you only knew). That is really silly liberals want carbon sequestration but cannot stomach plastics in a landfill.

      In my (dumped on) Gloucester County in New Jersey, where elected officials had the “Your Trash is Our Cash” mentality, we had a PET bottle recycling plant. So that is years ago 1990’s. I had no problem with that plant.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Back from whence it came. Well, I wouldn’t eat one of those hot dogs, but considering my nephew studies petrified scat from three-toed sloths in Alaska, and that of California ground squirrels… Funny Gloucesrer VA had the same motto over the same trash.

  11. Good article.
    I actually did a lot of R&D work on plastics recycling back in the 90’s. There is no shortage of recycling technology, so much as shortage of economic incentive to do it. So I agree with some form of incentives.

    If you pyrolyze plastics into liquid fuel, you get maybe 10-20 cents a pound for the fuel sales, but just collecting and preparing the plastics is probably 40-50 cents a pound. So it is a money loser unless it is structured somehow to share these costs. My numbers probably out of date, but that’s the idea.

    The reason I was doing the R&D was, around 1990 was the last time the enviros whipped up a media frenzy about waste plastics, but the issue fell to the back burner.

    Of course, Fairfax we have waste-to-energy which I feel is far better than landfills. But that needs to be properly done, and enviros want none of that either.

    I see landfills as environmental and social injustice.

  12. Good article.
    I actually did a lot of R&D work on plastics recycling back in the 90’s. There is no shortage of recycling technology, so much as shortage of economic incentive to do it. So I agree with some form of incentives.

    If you pyrolyze plastics into liquid fuel, you get maybe 10-20 cents a pound for the fuel sales, but just collecting and preparing the plastics is probably 40-50 cents a pound. So it is a money loser unless it is structured somehow to share these costs. My numbers probably out of date, but that’s the idea.

    The reason I was doing the R&D was, around 1990 was the last time the enviros whipped up a media frenzy about waste plastics, but the issue fell to the back burner.

    Of course, Fairfax we have waste-to-energy which I feel is far better than landfills. But that needs to be properly done, and enviros want none of that either.

    I see landfills as environmental and social injustice.

  13. LarrytheG Avatar

    so why do folks want to recycle in the first place? Is there any correlation between the folks that want to recycle who also are concerned about pollution and climate change?

    1. idiocracy Avatar

      Recycling of aluminum cans helps ensure plenty of raw materials to build efficient aluminum-block internal combustion engines.

    2. Why recycle?
      The well known hierarchy/steps of waste minimization are:
      1. Reduce/Reuse
      2. Recycle (properly- “sham recycling” is to be avoided)
      3. Treatment to reduce (eg; composting, waste to energy – sure, needs to be properly done)
      4. Disposal of the remaining residue

      So we do that in Fairfax, and we had state policy in NJ to do that. Some NJ counties did it. others rather outhaul their trash to other states, like Virginia who is happy to accept it.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        I sorta thought that folks that thought recycling was worthwhile and important would also have similar feelings towards fossil fuel pollution.

        no?

  14. LarrytheG Avatar

    so why do folks want to recycle in the first place? Is there any correlation between the folks that want to recycle who also are concerned about pollution and climate change?

    1. idiocracy Avatar

      Recycling of aluminum cans helps ensure plenty of raw materials to build efficient aluminum-block internal combustion engines.

    2. Why recycle?
      The well known hierarchy/steps of waste minimization are:
      1. Reduce/Reuse
      2. Recycle (properly- “sham recycling” is to be avoided)
      3. Treatment to reduce (eg; composting, waste to energy – sure, needs to be properly done)
      4. Disposal of the remaining residue

      So we do that in Fairfax, and we had state policy in NJ to do that. Some NJ counties did it. others rather outhaul their trash to other states, like Virginia who is happy to accept it.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        I sorta thought that folks that thought recycling was worthwhile and important would also have similar feelings towards fossil fuel pollution.

        no?

  15. LarrytheG Avatar

    yep – but not so much plastic and even cardboard has to be sorted… any kind of tape or other plastic material on it makes it unuseable.

    Single stream recycling is a concept not a reality. There are all kinds of “stuff” in the “stream” from dead animals to used oil filters, to LP bottles and all manner of stuff that people will throw in it if not stopped.

    It costs money to separate the constituents in the stream and a lot of it is human labor. It would be a perfect job for AI.

  16. LarrytheG Avatar

    yep – but not so much plastic and even cardboard has to be sorted… any kind of tape or other plastic material on it makes it unuseable.

    Single stream recycling is a concept not a reality. There are all kinds of “stuff” in the “stream” from dead animals to used oil filters, to LP bottles and all manner of stuff that people will throw in it if not stopped.

    It costs money to separate the constituents in the stream and a lot of it is human labor. It would be a perfect job for AI.

  17. Proposal- I do not know if this is technically/environmentally feasible, but I suggest the Hybrid Coal plant, or similar facility, be converted to run on Refuse Derived Fuel. Then we would need facilities to make the refuse derived fuel.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      didn’t New Jersey at one time send barges full of trash to be dumped at sea?

      https://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/29/nyregion/ocean-dumping-ending-but-not-problems-new-york-can-t-ship-bury-burn-its-sludge.html

      so people who were opposed to that would also be opposed to the equivalent to fossil fuel pollution?

      1. You’re talking New York.
        New York City is pretty bad. They do not recycle, but also feel unethical to do anything except out-haul their trash (eg; to Virginia). Democrat NIMBY’s to the hilt. Can you imagine we Virginia accept that stuff from New York? Including the plastics they refuse to recycle? Oh My God it will last forever. Whereas the rest of the garbage is completely safe and will decompose to safe by-products immediately in our Mount Trashmore’s.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          I think most all big cities /MSAs (multi million folks) “outsource” their trash , sometimes to other states. More and more things are made out of plastic parts – as opposed to containers… and – like glass there is no market for either any more. Even cardboard has to be “clean” of plastic liners, tape and coatings to be accepted.

          If I recall correctly, there was a court case trying to stop out-of-state trash and it failed and it became an issue of property rights and whether a given locality (like King George) would build a mega-landfill and accept it. That landfill generates millions of dollars of revenue a year for King George – it;’s their cash cow!

          And irony of ironies, it was sited right next to a coal power plant!

          And it also took the coal ash from the plant and layered it on the trash!

          Landfilling is a necessary reality. It’s way better than pretending we don’t need to. It’s one of the consequences of human habitation! No other animal creates “trash”!

  18. Proposal- I do not know if this is technically/environmentally feasible, but I suggest the Hybrid Coal plant, or similar facility, be converted to run on Refuse Derived Fuel. Then we would need facilities to make the refuse derived fuel.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      didn’t New Jersey at one time send barges full of trash to be dumped at sea?

      https://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/29/nyregion/ocean-dumping-ending-but-not-problems-new-york-can-t-ship-bury-burn-its-sludge.html

      so people who were opposed to that would also be opposed to the equivalent to fossil fuel pollution?

      1. You’re talking New York.
        New York City is pretty bad. They do not recycle, but also feel unethical to do anything except out-haul their trash (eg; to Virginia). Democrat NIMBY’s to the hilt. Can you imagine we Virginia accept that stuff from New York? Including the plastics they refuse to recycle? Oh My God it will last forever. Whereas the rest of the garbage is completely safe and will decompose to safe by-products immediately in our Mount Trashmore’s.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          I think most all big cities /MSAs (multi million folks) “outsource” their trash , sometimes to other states. More and more things are made out of plastic parts – as opposed to containers… and – like glass there is no market for either any more. Even cardboard has to be “clean” of plastic liners, tape and coatings to be accepted.

          If I recall correctly, there was a court case trying to stop out-of-state trash and it failed and it became an issue of property rights and whether a given locality (like King George) would build a mega-landfill and accept it. That landfill generates millions of dollars of revenue a year for King George – it;’s their cash cow!

          And irony of ironies, it was sited right next to a coal power plant!

          And it also took the coal ash from the plant and layered it on the trash!

          Landfilling is a necessary reality. It’s way better than pretending we don’t need to. It’s one of the consequences of human habitation! No other animal creates “trash”!

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