Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

A Backlash at Last

—

by

James A. Bacon
in ,

Scene on the Lawn at the University of Virginia.

A message addressed to “Friends of UVA” by Bert Ellis, class of 1975, is passing around virally by email. Reed Fawell posted the message in the comments on a previous post but did not mention Ellis by name. Given the fact that Ellis is a prominent and wealthy alumnus — he is CEO of Ellis Capital — his opinions matter. I am republishing his open letter on the blog because everyone needs to see what has become of “Mr. Jefferson’s University.” — JAB

This is a sign posted on a Lawn Room door right now. It has been up like this for about 2 weeks. I sent the picture to President Ryan a week ago and asked if the University was going to permit such a sign to stay up on such a public place as the Lawn. I told President Ryan that I absolutely support this student’s right to his/her political opinions and hir/her right to express them on his/her Lawn Room door but not the profanity. Ryan responded immediately and told me “We’re working on it”.

This past Friday I went to Cville to knock on this door (room 36 East Lawn) and discuss the sign with the current occupant….if the sign was still there. It was. Not only is the University not going to remove it, they have assigned 2 UVA Ambassadors … to patrol the Lawn and prevent anybody else from taking it down, ie me. The University has determined this is her first amendment right.

So I guess by their new standards it would be okay to hold up a Fuck Duke sign in the JPJ during a televised basketball game…or okay to put a Trump sign on another Lawn Room door underneath a big Fuck Liberals sign. Do you think???? I walked around the entire Lawn and was rather dumbfounded to see how many very radical liberal signs were posted on doors albeit this was the only one with such profanity. Not one alternative POV did I see.

I did knock on the door and introduced myself as a former Lawn Resident of many years ago and asked the resident of this room in a very calm voice from a comfortable social distance why she needed to use such profanity to make her point in such a public place. She told me that these issues needed attention and the profanity of this sign gets attention. I asked her if she had not learned during her 3 years at UVA any other way to get attention to make her case in a political discussion other than by using incendiary and profane language to which she said “it certainly got your attention.” I told her that the rest of the sign also got my attention and I am here to discuss it.

I then asked her why the need for the denigration of UVA to which she said UVA is as much a cause of all of this as anything. I asked her to explain that and she said the following; (I think this is a very accurate quote):

“This institution was founded by a degenerate who owned and raped his slaves and then stole this property to build this institution for rich white people with slave labor.”

Then she told me she did not appreciate me knocking on her door and slammed the door in my face

I spoke a little longer to her “door” and said the sign certainly got my attention, but I can only assume she is not willing to debate any aspect of her views except with people that totally agree with her….this is the new collegiate way of debate. Only the liberal (and now increasingly radical liberal) point of view is allowed in signage or debate on any college campus including our own UVA. Nothing else is permitted or even tolerated.

Then the 2 UVA ambassadors who were standing right behind me asked me to leave. I engaged in a discussion with them as to what they are instructed to do by the University and they answered they are posted to prevent any damage to that sign. I was prepared to use a small razor blade to remove the Fuck UVA part of this sign and they said I could not do that as it would be considered malicious damage to the University and a violation of this student’s First Amendment Rights and they were prepared to restrain me from so doing. I politely debated this incredibly stupid position with them but left without modifying the sign as I intended.

This is the level to which our University has disintegrated. Pres Ryan could certainly prohibit the profanity as is done at JPJ or other sports arenas ( at least it used to be done) and/or he could just ban all signage except on specific public posting sites, ie bulletin boards , but he has decided as just another liberal academic to tolerate this bull crap.

In my view, this is now the official UVA position and I think this woman feels she could go paint Fuck UVA on any bldg and certainly on any Jefferson statue as her “right of free speech”. I think she would argue the University allows The 7 Society, Z, and IMP to paint signs on the bldgs so why not her message. I think our current President and his administration see it her way and would permit this. President Ryan is as bad if not worse than his predecessor at UVA.

Get ready for more of this. Our only ability to do anything about this is to withhold our checks. The University is about to embark on anther huge fundraising campaign and we need to say no.

I do urge you to go see this for yourself. In my view, it is totally disgusting.

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Comments

183 responses to “A Backlash at Last”

  1. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    If you get to the bottom of the letter, you will see this:

    “Get ready for more of this. Our only ability to do anything about this is to withhold our checks. The University is about to embark on anther huge fundraising campaign and we need to say no.”

    That’s the backlash I was referring to in the headline. I’ve been predicting an alumni backlash for several years, and it’s never materialized. I think that’s about to change.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      After 35 years as a regular donor, I quit more than a decade ago.

    2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Backlash? Have you ever seen Newton’s Cradle? Several balls sit in place as another comes crashing in, strikes the first in line, sending the last in line flying while seemingly taking its place, stationary, as the target of the next, soon to happen, event. In a perfectly conserved system, this will continue ad infinitum, unless, say, a suspension line were to break.

      “I am innocent of this man’s blood; see to it yourselves.”

  2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    The real backlash comes if the UVA crowd tries to smear the Hokies at the ball game on Dec 12. That used to be the only sort of bad language signs and vandalism you could find on a college campus. I noticed the student failed to mention on her sign that 20% of the state population accounts for over 40% of the abortions.

    1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      I will never forget the goings on at the half-times of the annual UVA / Virginia Tech football games at Scott Stadium in the early and mid 1960s. It was the most popular half time event of entire football season. Here is how it went.

      First, there appeared a farmer on a small tractor driving erratically around the football field, an obviously tall gangling figure in floppy straw hat and dungarees, his knees hiked high, exposing his sockless skinny white shins above his heavy black work boots. On his inevitable appearance, the home crowd when wild, hooting and laughing.

      Next, out galloped a white dappled gray high stepping stallion, whose gay Cavalier rider and master rode complete with sword, jodhpurs clad in high riding boots, scarlet cape and grey white plumed hat. Now the crowd roared. And then they clapped, hooted, hollered, and laughed as our Gay Cavalier chased the now highly erratic dungareed hick who, increasingly desperate to escape, finally got herded off the field by the Gay Cavalier atop in his noble high stepping white gray dappled stead.

      Next, as too happenings at UVA some 45 years later:

      Also I will never forget Uva’s communications department under the Imperial Reign of Teresa Sullivan.

      For example, now google “Virginia Sports,” and then, after that, and better yet, google this: “Video: Graduation Memories Aplenty for UVA’s Class of 2018” or go directly to the video found at:

      https://news.virginia.edu/content/video-graduation-memories-aplenty-uvas-class-2018

      Do you see any differences between what was happening at UVA in the early and middle 1960s and what is happening at UVA in 2018?

      If you do see differences, what are the differences?

      For example, who, according to this 2018 video would you expect to have “Graduation Memories Aplenty from the Class of 2018”, and who, what group of people appear to have none at all? How about with Sports at UVA too?

      Pondering all this, not avoiding it, but looking at the images and communications, have things at UVa. really not changed at all?

      What does this have to do with zoning?

      I suggest a lot …

      See https://www.baconsrebellion.com/stay-put-young-man-stay-put/

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        Yeah but in the second half Don Strock would throw deep passes from across the drill field to Ricky Scales and Roscoe Coles would run right over the tacklers for the big score. The UVA/VPI rivalry could only be matched by the early 20th century grudge matches of VPI/VMI in leather skin helmets.

    2. TBill Avatar
      TBill

      Not me personally but I have serious Hokies in the extended fam…I know UVa is a sensitive issue.

  3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Ah well, I suppose I can divert my annual gift from W&M for this one year to (spit) UVa.

    And, while I’m sure he spins in his grave when I say it, as a fellow alumni, I can forgive his second worst mistake (not the big one) and come to his defense, especially from the attacks of the graduates of Virginia’s meager attempt at vocation training, VoTech.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      There is a razor’s edge being walked by the school. It is clearly a political statement, and while obscene by almost all standards, obscene language is protected speech, especially in political speech.

      1. sherlockj Avatar
        sherlockj

        Stupidity is generally protected too. She exposes herself to the very obvious question of why she is in her fourth year at a university she so publicly despises.

        Perhaps the Cavalier Daily can ask her. Inquiring minds want to know. But the last inquiring mind at the CD may have graduated decades ago.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          well… sounds like she shares that view with several Alumni here. No? Maybe for different reasons?

          😉

  4. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    I don’t think the 60s missed UVA. It just showed up 55 years late to the party west coast style.

  5. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
    Reed Fawell 3rd

    I have been highly critical of the university I love. There of course is another side, namely, the UVa. professors who have remained true to their profession, and enriched us all, myself included, because of their efforts, often lasting over decades. I have mentioned many here over the past years.

    One of those professors is Mark Edmundson, a writer of two fine and timeless books that should never go out of print, including Self and Soul: A Defense of Ideals, and The Heart of the Humanities, Reading, Writing, Teaching. Mark’s new book Song of Ourselves: Walt Whitman and the Fight for Democracy, will be published in the Spring. Read these books, particularly now.

    Also read Mark’s very recent essay in the America Scholar entitled Teach What You Love, a modest proposal for professors of literature. It’s linked in below:

    https://theamericanscholar.org/teach-what-you-love/#.X2TnY9Z7k8Y

  6. Nathan Avatar
    Nathan

    “Not one alternative POV did I see.”

    So much for the marketplace of ideas. Sounds like an indoctrination mill.

    “This institution was founded by a degenerate who owned and raped his slaves and then stole this property to build this institution for rich white people with slave labor.”

    I believe the land for UVA was purchased from James Monroe. If she thinks all North American land belongs to the Native Americans, then is she suggesting we give it all back? Does her family own property?

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      At that which Native Americans should we return it to? I mean the ones that Monroe probably procured it from undoubtedly acquired it through violent means from the tribe before them.

      1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
        Reed Fawell 3rd

        “”This institution was founded by a degenerate who owned and raped his slaves and then stole this property to build this institution for rich white people with slave labor.”

        In fact Thomas Jefferson did more than anyone in history to lay the conceptual and practical framework that ultimately Lincoln deployed and built upon to free the slaves in America less than 4o years after Jefferson’s death.

    2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      “… is she suggesting we give it all back? ”

      Didn’t SCOTUS just do that with a huge chunk of Oklahoma?

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        Nancy asked – “Didn’t SCOTUS just do that with a huge chunk of Oklahoma?”

        No. Have you read the case?

        The central question in the case was who has jurisdiction to prosecute crimes committed by Native Americans on Native American land.

  7. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    If you get to the bottom of the letter, you will see this:

    “Get ready for more of this. Our only ability to do anything about this is to withhold our checks. The University is about to embark on anther huge fundraising campaign and we need to say no.”

    That’s the backlash I was referring to in the headline. I’ve been predicting an alumni backlash for several years, and it’s never materialized. I think that’s about to change.

    1. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      After 35 years as a regular donor, I quit more than a decade ago.

    2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Backlash? Have you ever seen Newton’s Cradle? Several balls sit in place as another comes crashing in, strikes the first in line, sending the last in line flying while seemingly taking its place, stationary, as the target of the next, soon to happen, event. In a perfectly conserved system, this will continue ad infinitum, unless, say, a suspension line were to break.

      “I am innocent of this man’s blood; see to it yourselves.”

  8. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    The real backlash comes if the UVA crowd tries to smear the Hokies at the ball game on Dec 12. That used to be the only sort of bad language signs and vandalism you could find on a college campus. I noticed the student failed to mention on her sign that 20% of the state population accounts for over 40% of the abortions.

    1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      I will never forget the goings on at the half-times of the annual UVA / Virginia Tech football games at Scott Stadium in the early and mid 1960s. It was the most popular half time event of entire football season. Here is how it went.

      First, there appeared a farmer on a small tractor driving erratically around the football field, an obviously tall gangling figure in floppy straw hat and dungarees, his knees hiked high, exposing his sockless skinny white shins above his heavy black work boots. On his inevitable appearance, the home crowd when wild, hooting and laughing.

      Next, out galloped a white dappled gray high stepping stallion, whose gay Cavalier rider and master rode complete with sword, jodhpurs clad in high riding boots, scarlet cape and grey white plumed hat. Now the crowd roared. And then they clapped, hooted, hollered, and laughed as our Gay Cavalier chased the now highly erratic dungareed hick who, increasingly desperate to escape, finally got herded off the field by the Gay Cavalier atop in his noble high stepping white gray dappled stead.

      Next, as too happenings at UVA some 45 years later:

      Also I will never forget Uva’s communications department under the Imperial Reign of Teresa Sullivan.

      For example, now google “Virginia Sports,” and then, after that, and better yet, google this: “Video: Graduation Memories Aplenty for UVA’s Class of 2018” or go directly to the video found at:

      https://news.virginia.edu/content/video-graduation-memories-aplenty-uvas-class-2018

      Do you see any differences between what was happening at UVA in the early and middle 1960s and what is happening at UVA in 2018?

      If you do see differences, what are the differences?

      For example, who, according to this 2018 video would you expect to have “Graduation Memories Aplenty from the Class of 2018”, and who, what group of people appear to have none at all? How about with Sports at UVA too?

      Pondering all this, not avoiding it, but looking at the images and communications, have things at UVa. really not changed at all?

      What does this have to do with zoning?

      I suggest a lot …

      See https://www.baconsrebellion.com/stay-put-young-man-stay-put/

      1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        Yeah but in the second half Don Strock would throw deep passes from across the drill field to Ricky Scales and Roscoe Coles would run right over the tacklers for the big score. The UVA/VPI rivalry could only be matched by the early 20th century grudge matches of VPI/VMI in leather skin helmets.

    2. TBill Avatar
      TBill

      Not me personally but I have serious Hokies in the extended fam…I know UVa is a sensitive issue.

  9. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Ah well, I suppose I can divert my annual gift from W&M for this one year to (spit) UVa.

    And, while I’m sure he spins in his grave when I say it, as a fellow alumni, I can forgive his second worst mistake (not the big one) and come to his defense, especially from the attacks of the graduates of Virginia’s meager attempt at vocation training, VoTech.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      There is a razor’s edge being walked by the school. It is clearly a political statement, and while obscene by almost all standards, obscene language is protected speech, especially in political speech.

      1. sherlockj Avatar
        sherlockj

        Stupidity is generally protected too. She exposes herself to the very obvious question of why she is in her fourth year at a university she so publicly despises.

        Perhaps the Cavalier Daily can ask her. Inquiring minds want to know. But the last inquiring mind at the CD may have graduated decades ago.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          well… sounds like she shares that view with several Alumni here. No? Maybe for different reasons?

          😉

  10. V N Avatar
    V N

    I agree with the gentleman. I am for free speech, just not for bullying, intimidation, and not acting like an adult. The only outcome is not going to be one that the female involved is going to like. Her indications of violence are at some point going to be met with the same. I find more disturbing the 2 university “minders”. Receptions like that need to go public. Let folks see that if that is how the university feels, maybe they should just close the university.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      “… just not for bullying, intimidation, and not acting like an adult. ”

      So, that’s a vote for Biden, a write-in, or just staying home then, eh?

  11. V N Avatar
    V N

    I agree with the gentleman. I am for free speech, just not for bullying, intimidation, and not acting like an adult. The only outcome is not going to be one that the female involved is going to like. Her indications of violence are at some point going to be met with the same. I find more disturbing the 2 university “minders”. Receptions like that need to go public. Let folks see that if that is how the university feels, maybe they should just close the university.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      “… just not for bullying, intimidation, and not acting like an adult. ”

      So, that’s a vote for Biden, a write-in, or just staying home then, eh?

  12. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Couda been worse:

    “F_ck UVA, Bert Ellis and the ugly horse you rode in on”.

    Really? This is the big backlash? Man the desperation is palpable.

    Now if he goes back with Dragas , I change my view.

  13. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Couda been worse:

    “F_ck UVA, Bert Ellis and the ugly horse you rode in on”.

    Really? This is the big backlash? Man the desperation is palpable.

    Now if he goes back with Dragas , I change my view.

  14. sbostian Avatar
    sbostian

    I am not sure how anybody can make a cogent case that the modern academic community is not a vicious enemy of Western Civilization – and civility. I have argued here in responses to other articles that only one viewpoint – progressive, cultural marxism – is tolerated in the modern academy. It is sad to see institutions which I have loved and respected for most of my life (from K – 12 to the universities) become the most prolific purveyors of hatred and division in our society.

    I would love to hear the cogent argument to the contrary. It might make my day happier if it is a good argument instead of a regurgitation of predictable talking points.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Uh, did you miss 4th of May, 1970?

      1. sbostian Avatar
        sbostian

        No. I was on a protest line then, just not at Kent State. I was a university student then and a young antiwar, anti big government anti mega-corporattion liberal. Still am. I was not however a marxist – economic or cultural. What I do remember (at least in the universities I was familiar with) was diversity of viewpoint and a desire to interact with those who held different viewpoints. In my main social group we had marxists, democratic socialists, paleo conservatives, libertarians, garden variety rednecks and insufferable yankees. Somehow we got along with and learned from each other. Your point?

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          He doesn’t understand that political ideology is more than one dimensional.

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            In answer to your previous ramble, after 1934 it was.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Ramble? It was pretty concise in pointing out that you have very little understanding of the Nazi and Hitler and rely on information that conforms to you own bias. Nor are you capable of debating the topic.

            Again, the right/left dogma originated in the French Revolution that ended in 1799 a few years before 1934.

            I’m sorry that you believe politics is one dimensional, it’s not.

            Maybe you should audit a Poli Sci class and gain some experience?

            https://kaiserscience.wordpress.com/reading-connections/history/politics/

          3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            And then there are those who will tell you how multidimensional and inclusive the Nazis were. What’s that word? Oh yeah, apologist.

            Nazis. Pretty much only one side to that story.

            Now, I might believe that at one time the party was more than that, but then along came a charismatic leader who through intimidation drove out…. hey!

        2. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          “And then there are those who will tell you how multidimensional and inclusive the Nazis were. What’s that word? Oh yeah, apologist.”

          Where is that any part of my argument? It wasn’t, that was a straw man because you can’t debate your point of view.

          NAZI’s were bad the fact that you resorted to Godwin proves that you couldn’t win the debate. The point was to lable the NAZI’s right or left is a complete and utter misnomer done by the woefully simple minded partisan (is: you).

          PS:. All your comments point out one thing, you’re a fascist that unless someone shares your opinion they are wrong. You’re literally incapable of having a rational conversation as you lack the awareness that you are possible not as intelligent as you believe yourself to be.

          1. James A. Bacon Avatar
            James A. Bacon

            Matt, You are absolutely justified in skewering Nancy Naive’s argument. (I’m not sure you can even call the reference to Nazis an “argument” — a sarcastic provocation might be a better description.) But I ask you again to refrain from personal attacks such as references to N.N.’s intelligence. N.N. could have the IQ of a turtle but that does not in itself invalidate his statement.

            A word of advice: Don’t let N.N. bait you. You have much to contribute to the blog and should not waste your time responding to remarks that most readers will regard as irrelevant or unhelpful to the discussion. Trust me, no one will think any less of you for passing up a chance to respond to a provocation.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Mr. Bacon,

            As it were in regards to interactions with NN, I feel there are no bounds when one is the subject of the following responses:

            “Nancy_Naive | September 3, 2020 at 4:40 pm |
            Why? Is Key West cool sounding to you? It’s okay. Grenada was cool. Mustique was way cool.

            No, the cats weren’t in the pamphlet. That would be cruel. They were mentioned in the pamphlet; them and their 6 toes.

            Hemingway may not have been “violate”, but if you don’t think suicide is an act of violence, try it and get back to us with your results. I’ll wait.”

            When a poster tells you that you should commit suicide and tell them if it was violent or not, I find no reason to keep the kid gloves on. Even at that I’ve been rather innocuous with my replies where as I could’ve respond with much more force.

            He’s incapable of having legitimate discord without being a pompous as$. I can only presume that’s because he’s got his silver spoon so supplanted up his 4th point that it’s coming out his mouth.

  15. sbostian Avatar
    sbostian

    I am not sure how anybody can make a cogent case that the modern academic community is not a vicious enemy of Western Civilization – and civility. I have argued here in responses to other articles that only one viewpoint – progressive, cultural marxism – is tolerated in the modern academy. It is sad to see institutions which I have loved and respected for most of my life (from K – 12 to the universities) become the most prolific purveyors of hatred and division in our society.

    I would love to hear the cogent argument to the contrary. It might make my day happier if it is a good argument instead of a regurgitation of predictable talking points.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Uh, did you miss 4th of May, 1970?

      1. sbostian Avatar
        sbostian

        No. I was on a protest line then, just not at Kent State. I was a university student then and a young antiwar, anti big government anti mega-corporattion liberal. Still am. I was not however a marxist – economic or cultural. What I do remember (at least in the universities I was familiar with) was diversity of viewpoint and a desire to interact with those who held different viewpoints. In my main social group we had marxists, democratic socialists, paleo conservatives, libertarians, garden variety rednecks and insufferable yankees. Somehow we got along with and learned from each other. Your point?

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          He doesn’t understand that political ideology is more than one dimensional.

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            And then there are those who will tell you how multidimensional and inclusive the Nazis were. What’s that word? Oh yeah, apologist.

            Nazis. Pretty much only one side to that story.

            Now, I might believe that at one time the party was more than that, but then along came a charismatic leader who through intimidation drove out…. hey!

        2. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          “And then there are those who will tell you how multidimensional and inclusive the Nazis were. What’s that word? Oh yeah, apologist.”

          Where is that any part of my argument? It wasn’t, that was a straw man because you can’t debate your point of view.

          NAZI’s were bad the fact that you resorted to Godwin proves that you couldn’t win the debate. The point was to lable the NAZI’s right or left is a complete and utter misnomer done by the woefully simple minded partisan (is: you).

          PS:. All your comments point out one thing, you’re a fascist that unless someone shares your opinion they are wrong. You’re literally incapable of having a rational conversation as you lack the awareness that you are possible not as intelligent as you believe yourself to be.

          1. James A. Bacon Avatar
            James A. Bacon

            Matt, You are absolutely justified in skewering Nancy Naive’s argument. (I’m not sure you can even call the reference to Nazis an “argument” — a sarcastic provocation might be a better description.) But I ask you again to refrain from personal attacks such as references to N.N.’s intelligence. N.N. could have the IQ of a turtle but that does not in itself invalidate his statement.

            A word of advice: Don’t let N.N. bait you. You have much to contribute to the blog and should not waste your time responding to remarks that most readers will regard as irrelevant or unhelpful to the discussion. Trust me, no one will think any less of you for passing up a chance to respond to a provocation.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Mr. Bacon,

            As it were in regards to interactions with NN, I feel there are no bounds when one is the subject of the following responses:

            “Nancy_Naive | September 3, 2020 at 4:40 pm |
            Why? Is Key West cool sounding to you? It’s okay. Grenada was cool. Mustique was way cool.

            No, the cats weren’t in the pamphlet. That would be cruel. They were mentioned in the pamphlet; them and their 6 toes.

            Hemingway may not have been “violate”, but if you don’t think suicide is an act of violence, try it and get back to us with your results. I’ll wait.”

            When a poster tells you that you should commit suicide and tell them if it was violent or not, I find no reason to keep the kid gloves on. Even at that I’ve been rather innocuous with my replies where as I could’ve respond with much more force.

            He’s incapable of having legitimate discord without being a pompous as$. I can only presume that’s because he’s got his silver spoon so supplanted up his 4th point that it’s coming out his mouth.

  16. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Did the 1960s somehow bypass UVA?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      1975 graduate, so yeah, pretty much. Probably of the opinion that he would have had to go to ‘Nam.

      1. TBill Avatar
        TBill

        I am also 75 grad (PSU). I was almost drafted due to 007 draft number and we were the first year to lose college deferment…had 1A physical and all that but lucked out, but it was difficult year.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Big differences happened between 68 and 72. By a 74 graduation (me, sort of) things had pretty much gone South for the hawks, and the big brood of newly hatched chickenhawks, i.e., all those GOP politicians who had bone spurs, flat feet, tennis elbow, etc.

          I think the 1st Draft Lottery drew in to about 125 deep, or so. I don’t think the 2nd made it to 50, and the third didn’t draft at all. That would have been yours. If you were born in 53, you were not called.

          Between turning 16 and wanting to join,and “Save ‘Merica”, and turning 19 where I was packing my bags for Canada, there was a period of ‘woke’.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Fair number of geezers here ……… and diversity of political philosphies!

          2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Yeah, I suppose. If you consider bipolar diverse.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            If you “average” it out? 😉

    2. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      I graduated in 1966. You’ll have to get a younger witness.

  17. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Did the 1960s somehow bypass UVA?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      1975 graduate, so yeah, pretty much. Probably of the opinion that he would have had to go to ‘Nam.

      1. TBill Avatar
        TBill

        I am also 75 grad (PSU). I was almost drafted due to 007 draft number and we were the first year to lose college deferment…had 1A physical and all that but lucked out, but it was difficult year.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Big differences happened between 68 and 72. By a 74 graduation (me, sort of) things had pretty much gone South for the hawks, and the big brood of newly hatched chickenhawks, i.e., all those GOP politicians who had bone spurs, flat feet, tennis elbow, etc.

          I think the 1st Draft Lottery drew in to about 125 deep, or so. I don’t think the 2nd made it to 50, and the third didn’t draft at all. That would have been yours. If you were born in 53, you were not called.

          Between turning 16 and wanting to join,and “Save ‘Merica”, and turning 19 where I was packing my bags for Canada, there was a period of ‘woke’.

    2. sherlockj Avatar
      sherlockj

      I graduated in 1966. You’ll have to get a younger witness.

  18. bodkinpoint Avatar
    bodkinpoint

    How can she continue to attend such a vile school?

    1. sbostian Avatar
      sbostian

      Most likely she isn’t paying the bills herself. Perhaps parents, generous donors, or student loans (it is so gauche to repay them, so treat them like free money) are allowing her to attend. If I were a prankster, I would attach her name to the a photo of the sign and make if famous. It would make interesting background check information when job search time comes around.

      1. WayneS Avatar
        WayneS

        You’re devious.

        1. sherlockj Avatar
          sherlockj

          Brilliantly so.

      2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        Gauche. I had to look that one up. I like that word. Vive la france!

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Then this is a gift to you… perhaps even an offering.

          “Rive Gauche” or “Left Bank” generally refers to the Paris of an earlier era: the Paris of artists, writers, and philosophers,…

          So, gauche means left… apropos.

          1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead V

            I bet Jefferson visited Rive Gauche when he was ambassador to France.

          2. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            Jefferson’s statue along the Seine is on the Left Bank, near Musee D’Orsay.

          3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            I did not know he has a statue there, but Lady Liberty stands in the middle.

        2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Oh, you’ll also like Rive Droite, and the masculine (English) droit.

        3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Both sides, I’m sure. But, not likely he would have found the artists, philosphers, and such Rive Gauche was known for. That came long after Jefferson’s death, second half of the 19th century.

      3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Sounds like a plan… except, Roger Stone, Karl Rove, etc., etc.,… Betcha AOC will hire her for big bucks.

        Know your audience.

      4. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
        Reed Fawell 3rd

        Perhaps the lady’s Lawn door declarations follow in the tradition of Luther’s Ninety- Five Theses nailed to the church door at the University of Witteburg.

        Or perhaps hers is an effort at shock and awe, akin to the hecklers veto of screaming children (UVA students) who invaded and shut down the meeting of the Board of Visitors, and also the meeting at UVA Jewish Center, or when UVA’s security forces hauled the Jew off the steps of the Rotunda for reading his Torah few years back, or the students’ and faculty mob that marched on and trashed a UVA Fraternity house in the middle of the night, and the demonizing of white frat boys, over Jackies false charges that festered for years at UVA, or UVa.’s undeniable faculty and student roll in the 2017 spring /summer riots at Charlottesville.

        But surely, in any case, all of these ugly incidents and affairs that have been going on for so long must be woven from a toxic mix taught and, in some quarters, chronically practiced at UVA with apparent impunity.

  19. bodkinpoint Avatar
    bodkinpoint

    How can she continue to attend such a vile school?

    1. sbostian Avatar
      sbostian

      Most likely she isn’t paying the bills herself. Perhaps parents, generous donors, or student loans (it is so gauche to repay them, so treat them like free money) are allowing her to attend. If I were a prankster, I would attach her name to the a photo of the sign and make if famous. It would make interesting background check information when job search time comes around.

      1. WayneS Avatar
        WayneS

        You’re devious.

        1. sherlockj Avatar
          sherlockj

          Brilliantly so.

      2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
        James Wyatt Whitehead V

        Gauche. I had to look that one up. I like that word. Vive la france!

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Then this is a gift to you… perhaps even an offering.

          “Rive Gauche” or “Left Bank” generally refers to the Paris of an earlier era: the Paris of artists, writers, and philosophers,…

          So, gauche means left… apropos.

          1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead V

            I bet Jefferson visited Rive Gauche when he was ambassador to France.

          2. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            Jefferson’s statue along the Seine is on the Left Bank, near Musee D’Orsay.

          3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            I did not know he has a statue there, but Lady Liberty stands in the middle.

        2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Oh, you’ll also like Rive Droite, and the masculine (English) droit.

        3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Both sides, I’m sure. But, not likely he would have found the artists, philosphers, and such Rive Gauche was known for. That came long after Jefferson’s death, second half of the 19th century.

      3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Sounds like a plan… except, Roger Stone, Karl Rove, etc., etc.,… Betcha AOC will hire her for big bucks.

        Know your audience.

      4. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
        Reed Fawell 3rd

        Perhaps the lady’s Lawn door declarations follow in the tradition of Luther’s Ninety- Five Theses nailed to the church door at the University of Witteburg.

        Or perhaps hers is an effort at shock and awe, akin to the hecklers veto of screaming children (UVA students) who invaded and shut down the meeting of the Board of Visitors, and also the meeting at UVA Jewish Center, or when UVA’s security forces hauled the Jew off the steps of the Rotunda for reading his Torah few years back, or the students’ and faculty mob that marched on and trashed a UVA Fraternity house in the middle of the night, and the demonizing of white frat boys, over Jackies false charges that festered for years at UVA, or UVa.’s undeniable faculty and student roll in the 2017 spring /summer riots at Charlottesville.

        But surely, in any case, all of these ugly incidents and affairs that have been going on for so long must be woven from a toxic mix taught and, in some quarters, chronically practiced at UVA with apparent impunity.

  20. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    I don’t think the 60s missed UVA. It just showed up 55 years late to the party west coast style.

  21. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
    Reed Fawell 3rd

    I have been highly critical of the university I love. There of course is another side, namely, the UVa. professors who have remained true to their profession, and enriched us all, myself included, because of their efforts, often lasting over decades. I have mentioned many here over the past years.

    One of those professors is Mark Edmundson, a writer of two fine and timeless books that should never go out of print, including Self and Soul: A Defense of Ideals, and The Heart of the Humanities, Reading, Writing, Teaching. Mark’s new book Song of Ourselves: Walt Whitman and the Fight for Democracy, will be published in the Spring. Read these books, particularly now.

    Also read Mark’s very recent essay in the America Scholar entitled Teach What You Love, a modest proposal for professors of literature. It’s linked in below:

    https://theamericanscholar.org/teach-what-you-love/#.X2TnY9Z7k8Y

  22. Nathan Avatar
    Nathan

    “Not one alternative POV did I see.”

    So much for the marketplace of ideas. Sounds like an indoctrination mill.

    “This institution was founded by a degenerate who owned and raped his slaves and then stole this property to build this institution for rich white people with slave labor.”

    I believe the land for UVA was purchased from James Monroe. If she thinks all North American land belongs to the Native Americans, then is she suggesting we give it all back? Does her family own property?

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      At that which Native Americans should we return it to? I mean the ones that Monroe probably procured it from undoubtedly acquired it through violent means from the tribe before them.

      1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
        Reed Fawell 3rd

        ““This institution was founded by a degenerate who owned and raped his slaves and then stole this property to build this institution for rich white people with slave labor.”

        In fact Thomas Jefferson did more than anyone in history to lay the conceptual and practical framework that ultimately Lincoln deployed and built upon to free the slaves in America less than 4o years after Jefferson’s death.

    2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      “… is she suggesting we give it all back? ”

      Didn’t SCOTUS just do that with a huge chunk of Oklahoma?

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        Nancy asked – “Didn’t SCOTUS just do that with a huge chunk of Oklahoma?”

        No. Have you read the case?

        The central question in the case was who has jurisdiction to prosecute crimes committed by Native Americans on Native American land.

  23. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Exactly. This guy Bert Ellis sounds like a dick. I had dinner with my daughter, a fairly recent whoo grad and told her the story about the confrontation on the Lawn. She said this guy sounds really creepy regardless of the use of the rough word.

  24. faxtar221 Avatar
    faxtar221

    Why are you going around knocking on some young woman’s door. Just post something worst case scenario, don’t cross that line. Just seems really creepy and inappropriate.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      yep. He went looking for a confrontation… and actually said he intended to deface the sign.

      This is the guy who is going to start the “big backlash”?

      I think ya’ll backlash wishers need a better leader… unless perhaps you like the “creepy” part…

  25. faxtar221 Avatar
    faxtar221

    Why are you going around knocking on some young woman’s door. Just post something worst case scenario, don’t cross that line. Just seems really creepy and inappropriate.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      yep. He went looking for a confrontation… and actually said he intended to deface the sign.

      This is the guy who is going to start the “big backlash”?

      I think ya’ll backlash wishers need a better leader… unless perhaps you like the “creepy” part…

  26. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Exactly. This guy Bert Ellis sounds like a dick. I had dinner with my daughter, a fairly recent whoo grad and told her the story about the confrontation on the Lawn. She said this guy sounds really creepy regardless of the use of the rough word.

  27. VDOTyranny Avatar
    VDOTyranny

    Never understood why anyone would want to live in those cramped, antiquated holes surrounding “the lawn.” I’d be upset too, if UVa stuck me in one of those. Then again, you UVa dorks think wearing a bow-tie to a football game is kewl (hint: wearing a bow-tie is never cool).

    1. sbostian Avatar
      sbostian

      One of my sons lived on “the Range” (the graduate student equivalent of “the Lawn”) for several years. Despite the cramped, sparse accommodations, it is considered an honor to be allowed to reside there. Besides the historical significance of the Lawn and the Range one has to be approved as a resident based a number of different criteria (no one is “assigned” to the Lawn). There used to be some social requirements attached to residing there and there used to be something of a fraternal bond between current and former residents. Presuming that Ellis once resided on the Lawn, he might have been under the impression that a current resident would feel some obligation to speak with him. However, I think that he should have contacted the resident in advance and asked for an appointment. In today’s environment, an older male showing up, unannounced, at a woman student’s room on the Lawn would seem to have no favorable outcomes available.

  28. VDOTyranny Avatar
    VDOTyranny

    Never understood why anyone would want to live in those cramped, antiquated holes surrounding “the lawn.” I’d be upset too, if UVa stuck me in one of those. Then again, you UVa dorks think wearing a bow-tie to a football game is kewl (hint: wearing a bow-tie is never cool).

    1. sbostian Avatar
      sbostian

      One of my sons lived on “the Range” (the graduate student equivalent of “the Lawn”) for several years. Despite the cramped, sparse accommodations, it is considered an honor to be allowed to reside there. Besides the historical significance of the Lawn and the Range one has to be approved as a resident based a number of different criteria (no one is “assigned” to the Lawn). There used to be some social requirements attached to residing there and there used to be something of a fraternal bond between current and former residents. Presuming that Ellis once resided on the Lawn, he might have been under the impression that a current resident would feel some obligation to speak with him. However, I think that he should have contacted the resident in advance and asked for an appointment. In today’s environment, an older male showing up, unannounced, at a woman student’s room on the Lawn would seem to have no favorable outcomes available.

  29. Izzo Avatar
    Izzo

    This would not be universally protected speech. If she posted this on the front door of the Rotunda, it could be taken down. However, I imagine the UVA lawyers looked at this and said that it would be inconsistent to take this down because the school has allowed similar (if not always as prominent and profane) postings on other dorm doors (assuming all residents of the dorm room are in agreement). If this were West Point or VMI, it could be taken down without violating First Amendment protections because it would not be inconsistent with policy.

    Mr. Ellis could have been charged had he defaced this sign. But here is where the inconsistency causes a backlash. The people who defaced the public statues were breaking the law as well but were not charged.

  30. John Harvie Avatar
    John Harvie

    Might be interesting to send a picture of the door to her parents (if they could be located) just to see what reaction that might engender…

  31. John Harvie Avatar
    John Harvie

    Might be interesting to send a picture of the door to her parents (if they could be located) just to see what reaction that might engender…

  32. Izzo Avatar
    Izzo

    This would not be universally protected speech. If she posted this on the front door of the Rotunda, it could be taken down. However, I imagine the UVA lawyers looked at this and said that it would be inconsistent to take this down because the school has allowed similar (if not always as prominent and profane) postings on other dorm doors (assuming all residents of the dorm room are in agreement). If this were West Point or VMI, it could be taken down without violating First Amendment protections because it would not be inconsistent with policy.

    Mr. Ellis could have been charged had he defaced this sign. But here is where the inconsistency causes a backlash. The people who defaced the public statues were breaking the law as well but were not charged.

  33. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
    Reed Fawell 3rd

    What a indefatigable digital warrior Steve Haner is, fighting 24/7 for Freedom and the American Way!

    See this night-fighter Steve Haner protecting us all at night against 20 to 1 odds on the BR Friday night comment board, though he’s completed surrounded by the half wits (Larry the G, Nancy-Naive, and Eric the Half Troll) who last night all night have scrambled out through the darkness to scurry endlessly across Bacon’s Rebellion comment board, attacking Steve.

    Steve, I am impressed. Thank you for your service to Virginia and the nation at large.

  34. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Steve, were you aware that I was attcking you? Well, next time let me know.

  35. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
    Reed Fawell 3rd

    This we call passive / aggressive behavior by folks trying to erase the learned and significant comments of others with their own nonsensical gibberish. This is a very common practice by some around here, a tactic deployed in effort to undermine the blog.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Why am I suddenly in this conversation I have otherwise avoided? Just because I mentioned TJ’s statue in Paris? Should find my photo of it.

      1. Izzo Avatar
        Izzo

        A UVA professor is advocating for the removal of that French Jefferson statue:

        https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/175963

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          On the other hand, it doesn’t belong to us, so their business.

  36. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
    Reed Fawell 3rd

    What a indefatigable digital warrior Steve Haner is, fighting 24/7 for Freedom and the American Way!

    See this night-fighter Steve Haner protecting us all at night against 20 to 1 odds on the BR Friday night comment board, though he’s completed surrounded by the half wits (Larry the G, Nancy-Naive, and Eric the Half Troll) who last night all night have scrambled out through the darkness to scurry endlessly across Bacon’s Rebellion comment board, attacking Steve.

    Steve, I am impressed. Thank you for your service to Virginia and the nation at large.

  37. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Steve, were you aware that I was attcking you? Well, next time let me know.

  38. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
    Reed Fawell 3rd

    This we call passive / aggressive behavior by folks trying to erase the learned and significant comments of others with their own nonsensical gibberish. This is a very common practice by some around here, a tactic deployed in effort to undermine the blog.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Why am I suddenly in this conversation I have otherwise avoided? Just because I mentioned TJ’s statue in Paris? Should find my photo of it.

      1. Izzo Avatar
        Izzo

        A UVA professor is advocating for the removal of that French Jefferson statue:

        https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/175963

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          On the other hand, it doesn’t belong to us, so their business.

  39. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    He seems to have huge hands and fingers, unlike Donald Trump

  40. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Jefferson was 6 foot 2 inches in height. Very straight bodied. Long taught muscles like a runner. His skin, on the inside of the arms, milky white. Skin exposed to the elements red from sunburn. In fact his his cheeks, nose, and chin always appeared to be recovering from a sunburn. Lots of freckles. Very long face and roman/english nose. Eye color? Blue, hazel, or green. Depending on the light. Hair was reddish too blonde. Very thick and full hair. Avoided whigs when possible. Square shouldered. Like Washington he detested shaking hands. He bowed. Erect and straight bodied standing or walking. A superb horseback rider. Yet when TJ sat in a chair or a sofa he seemed to melt into the furniture very casually. Described as a jackknife or accordion when using furniture. Slept upright in his bed. Detested sleep. Soaked his feet for 20 minutes every morning in iced water. Dressed informally when possible. Preferred his PJs and slippers. You would know when the presence of Jefferson was near. He constantly sang songs to himself.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      thanks for the description!

  41. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Thanks as well. But can you provide same for Trump? He is clinically obese, has a huge gut, and, according to Stormy Daniel, well look it up!

    1. sbostian Avatar
      sbostian

      Not to nitpick, but does clinical obesity really bear on Trump’s fitness for his office? Almost every NFL offensive lineman is “clinically obese”. (I made the diagnosis remotely on the basis of photographs, like yours of Trump’s obesity.) However, many seem to perform ably. I’m happy that we aren’t required to provide full length photos here. I would hate to have my physique critiqued by the left leaning contributors here.

  42. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Here he is:

    https://www.baconsrebellion.com/app/uploads/2020/09/10-Jefferson-on-La-Seine.jpg

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      I didn’t know he was that skinny!

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Or, that she was so short…
        https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/statue-of-liberty-pont-de-grenelle

    2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Personal photo? Nice camera work.

      Oh wait. I’m supposed to attack you. Shoulda slowed the shutter and closed the aperature.

      No, nice shot.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        We also found the UVA-funded plaque on the Champs-Elysees, where he resided when ambassador, another reference to him on a famous old Left Bank restaurant (which also has one of Napoleon’s hats), and then down on the Rhone there was another Roman temple which also claims it was the model for our Capitol (not just the one in Nimes). They brag on him in Bordeaux, too, where he bought wine by the barrel. We kick him out I think the French will keep him.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Yeah, they love Jefferson. But then, Jerry Lewis too. And don’t forget, in the early 2000 pre-election polling, it was a tightly contested race, unless you included Bill Clinton’s name in the poll.

          I love “The Jefferson Hour”. I especially like the tales of his exploits in Europe. Jefferson, thief and smuggler.

  43. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    Here he is:

    https://www.baconsrebellion.com/app/uploads/2020/09/10-Jefferson-on-La-Seine.jpg

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Personal photo? Nice camera work.

      Oh wait. I’m supposed to attack you. Shoulda slowed the shutter and closed the aperature.

      No, nice shot.

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        We also found the UVA-funded plaque on the Champs-Elysees, where he resided when ambassador, another reference to him on a famous old Left Bank restaurant (which also has one of Napoleon’s hats), and then down on the Rhone there was another Roman temple which also claims it was the model for our Capitol (not just the one in Nimes). They brag on him in Bordeaux, too, where he bought wine by the barrel. We kick him out I think the French will keep him.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Yeah, they love Jefferson. But then, Jerry Lewis too. And don’t forget, in the early 2000 pre-election polling, it was a tightly contested race, unless you included Bill Clinton’s name in the poll.

          I love “The Jefferson Hour”. I especially like the tales of his exploits in Europe. Jefferson, thief and smuggler.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      I didn’t know he was that skinny!

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Or, that she was so short…
        https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/statue-of-liberty-pont-de-grenelle

  44. Nathan Avatar
    Nathan

    I find it quite amazing how radical liberals have gotten since John F. Kennedy was President. I think someone with his views today would be considered a right wing extremist.

    I’ve always appreciate this story from Kennedy’s time as President:

    Extract from John F. Kennedy’s Remarks at a Dinner Honoring Nobel Prize Winners of the Western Hemisphere

    “I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone. Someone once said that Thomas Jefferson was a gentleman of 32 who could calculate an eclipse, survey an estate, tie an artery, plan an edifice, try a cause, break a horse, and dance the minuet.”

    http://tjrs.monticello.org/letter/1856

  45. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    John F Kennedy argues for universal healthcare

    https://youtu.be/14A1zxaHpD8

  46. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    John F Kennedy supported the establishment of Medicare and Medicaid also.

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      Increased defense spending
      Containing Communism around the world
      Confronting Cuba
      Space exploration
      Patriotism
      Tax cuts.

      “Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country,”

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      The other side is he supported universal health care, Medicare, Medicaid, the Peace Corp , public schools, Higher Ed, Science, public housing, desegregation, Social Security, Keynesian economics, liberalized immigration laws, and Civil Rights.

      Just really misleading to claim he would be radical right when most of his positions are pretty much what Dems support today and many Conservatives oppose.

      He was a National Security hawk – yes but most of his domestic policy positions where very much what you see with modern day Dems.

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        Talk about misleading. Conservatives oppose Civil Rights?

        Conversing with you is always good for a laugh.

        The Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed the Senate on a 73-to-27 vote. The Democratic supermajority in the Senate split their vote 46 (69%) for and 21 (31%) against. The Republicans, on the other hand, split their vote 27 for (82%) and 6 against (18%). Thus, the no vote consisted of 78% Democrats. Further, the infamous 74-day filibuster was led by the Southern Democrats, who overwhelmingly voted against the act.

        And how did Virginia’s Democratic Senators vote?

        Nay VA D Byrd, Harry
        Nay VA D Robertson, Absalom

        1. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Dick Russell was the key man in the Senate filibuster. He was the master of the archaic rules of the Senate and held the Southern Bloc together for one last stand via the filibuster. Everett Dirksen was able to cobble together the compromise and bring cloture to the issue. One of the only times Russell was outflanked. Passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act is a great political story lost to time.
          https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b0/5b/59/b05b5982ee68620b2cd131d5414ce244.jpg

  47. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    He seems to have huge hands and fingers, unlike Donald Trump

  48. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Jefferson was 6 foot 2 inches in height. Very straight bodied. Long taught muscles like a runner. His skin, on the inside of the arms, milky white. Skin exposed to the elements red from sunburn. In fact his his cheeks, nose, and chin always appeared to be recovering from a sunburn. Lots of freckles. Very long face and roman/english nose. Eye color? Blue, hazel, or green. Depending on the light. Hair was reddish too blonde. Very thick and full hair. Avoided whigs when possible. Square shouldered. Like Washington he detested shaking hands. He bowed. Erect and straight bodied standing or walking. A superb horseback rider. Yet when TJ sat in a chair or a sofa he seemed to melt into the furniture very casually. Described as a jackknife or accordion when using furniture. Slept upright in his bed. Detested sleep. Soaked his feet for 20 minutes every morning in iced water. Dressed informally when possible. Preferred his PJs and slippers. You would know when the presence of Jefferson was near. He constantly sang songs to himself.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      thanks for the description!

  49. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Thanks as well. But can you provide same for Trump? He is clinically obese, has a huge gut, and, according to Stormy Daniel, well look it up!

    1. sbostian Avatar
      sbostian

      Not to nitpick, but does clinical obesity really bear on Trump’s fitness for his office? Almost every NFL offensive lineman is “clinically obese”. (I made the diagnosis remotely on the basis of photographs, like yours of Trump’s obesity.) However, many seem to perform ably. I’m happy that we aren’t required to provide full length photos here. I would hate to have my physique critiqued by the left leaning contributors here.

  50. Nathan Avatar
    Nathan

    I find it quite amazing how radical liberals have gotten since John F. Kennedy was President. I think someone with his views today would be considered a right wing extremist.

    I’ve always appreciate this story from Kennedy’s time as President:

    Extract from John F. Kennedy’s Remarks at a Dinner Honoring Nobel Prize Winners of the Western Hemisphere

    “I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone. Someone once said that Thomas Jefferson was a gentleman of 32 who could calculate an eclipse, survey an estate, tie an artery, plan an edifice, try a cause, break a horse, and dance the minuet.”

    http://tjrs.monticello.org/letter/1856

  51. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    John F Kennedy argues for universal healthcare

    https://youtu.be/14A1zxaHpD8

  52. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    John F Kennedy supported the establishment of Medicare and Medicaid also.

    1. Nathan Avatar
      Nathan

      Increased defense spending
      Containing Communism around the world
      Confronting Cuba
      Space exploration
      Patriotism
      Tax cuts.

      “Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country,”

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      The other side is he supported universal health care, Medicare, Medicaid, the Peace Corp , public schools, Higher Ed, Science, public housing, desegregation, Social Security, Keynesian economics, liberalized immigration laws, and Civil Rights.

      Just really misleading to claim he would be radical right when most of his positions are pretty much what Dems support today and many Conservatives oppose.

      He was a National Security hawk – yes but most of his domestic policy positions where very much what you see with modern day Dems.

      1. Nathan Avatar
        Nathan

        Talk about misleading. Conservatives oppose Civil Rights?

        Conversing with you is always good for a laugh.

        The Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed the Senate on a 73-to-27 vote. The Democratic supermajority in the Senate split their vote 46 (69%) for and 21 (31%) against. The Republicans, on the other hand, split their vote 27 for (82%) and 6 against (18%). Thus, the no vote consisted of 78% Democrats. Further, the infamous 74-day filibuster was led by the Southern Democrats, who overwhelmingly voted against the act.

        And how did Virginia’s Democratic Senators vote?

        Nay VA D Byrd, Harry
        Nay VA D Robertson, Absalom

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          You’re confusing political philosophy with party labels which did change.

          The Southern Dems were not like mainstream Dems like Kennedy. They were hard core Conservatives, racists and segregationists who staunchly opposed civil rights.

          The Republicans who supported Civil Rights were largely GOP moderates, now rejected as RINOs and CINOs by mainstream GOP – who you will find are the voices now who reject the idea there is systemic racism.

          https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/28/republicans-party-of-civil-rights

        2. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
          James Wyatt Whitehead V

          Dick Russell was the key man in the Senate filibuster. He was the master of the archaic rules of the Senate and held the Southern Bloc together for one last stand via the filibuster. Everett Dirksen was able to cobble together the compromise and bring cloture to the issue. One of the only times Russell was outflanked. Passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act is a great political story lost to time.
          https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b0/5b/59/b05b5982ee68620b2cd131d5414ce244.jpg

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Here are the actual votes – by geography:

            https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/8/27/1377639850437/bothcivilrights.jpeg?width=300&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=37d7c473a3c0087b900987b22d5983a9

  53. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
    Reed Fawell 3rd

    Be careful what you wish for, and chronically lie about. It may come around bite you hard.

    “Princeton’s Confession of Bias
    Admission of ‘systemic racism’ could cost the school federal funds.

    The folks at Princeton are supposed to be smart. But you have to wonder about the intelligence of inviting federal scrutiny by declaring their own school guilty of racism.

    Amid a struggle session with progressive faculty and students this month, Princeton President Christopher Eisgruber published an open letter promising to combat “systemic racism” at the school. That’s an eye-opener since Princeton has assured students and the federal government that it doesn’t discriminate. Has the university been lying?

    Enter the Education Department, which wants to know. On Wednesday Assistant Secretary Robert King wrote Mr. Eisgruber requesting records related to his confession of bias. “Among other things,” Mr. King writes, “you said ‘[r]acism and the damage it does to people of color persist at Princeton . . .’ and ‘[r]acist assumptions . . . remain embedded in structures of the University itself.’” End Quote.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/princetons-confession-of-bias-11600469066?mod=hp_opin_pos_3

  54. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
    Reed Fawell 3rd

    Be careful what you wish for, and chronically lie about. It may come around bite you hard.

    “Princeton’s Confession of Bias
    Admission of ‘systemic racism’ could cost the school federal funds.

    The folks at Princeton are supposed to be smart. But you have to wonder about the intelligence of inviting federal scrutiny by declaring their own school guilty of racism.

    Amid a struggle session with progressive faculty and students this month, Princeton President Christopher Eisgruber published an open letter promising to combat “systemic racism” at the school. That’s an eye-opener since Princeton has assured students and the federal government that it doesn’t discriminate. Has the university been lying?

    Enter the Education Department, which wants to know. On Wednesday Assistant Secretary Robert King wrote Mr. Eisgruber requesting records related to his confession of bias. “Among other things,” Mr. King writes, “you said ‘[r]acism and the damage it does to people of color persist at Princeton . . .’ and ‘[r]acist assumptions . . . remain embedded in structures of the University itself.’” End Quote.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/princetons-confession-of-bias-11600469066?mod=hp_opin_pos_3

  55. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    so…any University or college or other institution, cities, towns, non-profits, etc… who admit to discriminatory policies will now be de-funded?

    Yep…

    does that also mean we de-fund the police if they did wrong also?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Nope. Because that’s their job.

  56. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    so…any University or college or other institution, cities, towns, non-profits, etc… who admit to discriminatory policies will now be de-funded?

    Yep…

    does that also mean we de-fund the police if they did wrong also?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Nope. Because that’s their job.

  57. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    https://www.baconsrebellion.com/app/uploads/2020/09/8-Jefferson-Marker-Champs-Elysees.jpg

    There’s the marker on Champs Elysees. There should be a three-year commission to decide what to do about it. I can be appointed since I attended his actual alma mater. I figure a month in Paris should be enough time for me to reach a decision….with side trips to Bordeaux and Vienne.

    I get a bit goosebumpy with the phrase “soldats de la guerre mondiale…” I dare you, President Ryan.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      “since I attended his actual alma mater. “.

      Like I said earlier, “Even though he spins in his grave when I say it, as a fellow alumni,” I too could volunteer for such service.

      But alas, our passports will keep us stuck in Le Havre for awhile.

      Judging from the fashion on the racks, this was within the decade, yes?

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Yes. 2017 trip. Both shots. Me, I’m doing my 14 day quarantine at the George V.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Take me with you. I’ll pick up the bar bills.

  58. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    re: “confessions” and de-funding….

    “Oh , we did not fully realize the varied ways that this could happen so when we signed that we were not, we were confident, but upon further review, we realize there may be more to look at”.

    this is just some guy at the Dept of Ed – screwing around, must have time on his hands.. or posturing to get Devos attention.

    seems like we also promised to de-fund the schools if they did not go back to “in-person” … right?

    gonna boycott the sports if they don’t stop kneeling…

    yadda yadda.

  59. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    re: “confessions” and de-funding….

    “Oh , we did not fully realize the varied ways that this could happen so when we signed that we were not, we were confident, but upon further review, we realize there may be more to look at”.

    this is just some guy at the Dept of Ed – screwing around, must have time on his hands.. or posturing to get Devos attention.

    seems like we also promised to de-fund the schools if they did not go back to “in-person” … right?

    gonna boycott the sports if they don’t stop kneeling…

    yadda yadda.

  60. Steve Haner Avatar
    Steve Haner

    https://www.baconsrebellion.com/app/uploads/2020/09/8-Jefferson-Marker-Champs-Elysees.jpg

    There’s the marker on Champs Elysees. There should be a three-year commission to decide what to do about it. I can be appointed since I attended his actual alma mater. I figure a month in Paris should be enough time for me to reach a decision….with side trips to Bordeaux and Vienne.

    I get a bit goosebumpy with the phrase “soldats de la guerre mondiale…” I dare you, President Ryan.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      “since I attended his actual alma mater. “.

      Like I said earlier, “Even though he spins in his grave when I say it, as a fellow alumni,” I too could volunteer for such service.

      But alas, our passports will keep us stuck in Le Havre for awhile.

      Judging from the fashion on the racks, this was within the decade, yes?

      1. Steve Haner Avatar
        Steve Haner

        Yes. 2017 trip. Both shots. Me, I’m doing my 14 day quarantine at the George V.

        1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
          Nancy_Naive

          Take me with you. I’ll pick up the bar bills.

  61. Seamus Avatar
    Seamus

    If a resident were to post a Confederate battle flag on the door of her Lawn room, would the administration would assign a pair of “UVA ambassadors” to protect the sign from vandalism? Asking for a friend.

    1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      Of course, Ryan would remove a Confederate flag in a nanosecond from the Lawn. No, constitutional protections there. MAGA Hats too. Outta here. Drill, Baby, Drill! Frack, Baby, Frack! Outta here! Along with 21 guns salutes to dead American soldiers on Veterans Day, verboten, too, and outta here, if UVa’s Ryan could have gotten away with it.

  62. Seamus Avatar
    Seamus

    If a resident were to post a Confederate battle flag on the door of her Lawn room, would the administration would assign a pair of “UVA ambassadors” to protect the sign from vandalism? Asking for a friend.

    1. Reed Fawell 3rd Avatar
      Reed Fawell 3rd

      Of course, Ryan would remove a Confederate flag in a nanosecond from the Lawn. No, constitutional protections there. MAGA Hats too. Outta here. Drill, Baby, Drill! Frack, Baby, Frack! Outta here! Along with 21 guns salutes to dead American soldiers on Veterans Day, verboten, too, and outta here, if UVa’s Ryan could have gotten away with it.

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