Port of Virginia’s Growth Opportunity

by James A. Bacon

The Port of Virginia was the third largest East Coast port ranked by container traffic in 2010, with 11% market share. It trailed Savannah  and New York/New Jersey, and Charleston was nipping on its heals. But the market for U.S. containerized cargo is forecast to double over the next decade, and Virginia’s ports are ideally situated to benefit from that growth.

In a presentation to the Commonwealth Transportation Board Wednesday, Jerry Bridges, executive director of the Virginia Port Authority, explained how the expansion of the Panama Canal would give Virginia’s ports a big competitive edge over its East Coast rivals. I have blogged on this topic before, but Bridges offered a greater level of detail.

The widening, expected to be complete by 2014-2015, will allow ships holding 18,000 TEUs (twenty-foot equivalent units, half of a standard shipping container) to use the canal. Currently, the canal handles ships with capacity of 4,400 TEUs. The use of larger ships will dramatically cut shipping costs from China, Japan and other Far Eastern nations to the U.S. East Coast, bypassing America’s West Coast ports and trans-continental railroads. (I could not attend the CTB meeting Wednesday, so I am basing this post upon Bridge’s PowerPoint presentation, filling in the blanks as necessary.)

Other U.S. ports have limited options to expand capacity. Virginia has the only U.S. port with a permitted expansion project in place. Perhaps most crucial, Hampton Roads has the deepest channels of any East Coast port, meaning that it is best equipped to handle the giganzo container ships now coming out of the shipyards. The graphic below shows the current (blue), authorized (red) and desired (green) channel depths on the Atlantic coast.

Port channel depths. Source: Port of Virginia

Virginia also has partnered with the two East Coast railroads, Norfolk Southern and CSX, to upgrade rail routes emanating from Hampton Roads and Virginia by allow double stacking of container trains. The Heartland Corridor and National Gateway will connect Norfolk to the Midwest, while the Crescent Corridor opens up markets in the Northeast and deep South. Even though Norfolk International Terminals has added six new on-dock rail lines and doubled the capacity of its rail yard, the railroads aren’t expected to be able to handle the influx of traffic. Thousands of containers will have to move by truck.

Freight movement has multiple highway bottlenecks due to the necessity of crossing bodies of water. The map below shows the port’s priority transportation projects in Hampton Roads. Not included here is the upgrade of the U.S. 460 link to Interstates 95 and 85 in Petersburg.


The Midtown Tunnel and Martin Luther King (MLK) extension are already funded. The other multibillion-dollar projects are not.

Two critical questions: First, how solid is the forecast showing a doubling of U.S. containerized shipments by 2022? What assumptions are embedded in that projection? Can international trade continue at the same rate as in the past three decades? What happens if, as President Obama hopes, an increasing share of manufacturing relocates back to the U.S. as China loses its edge as a source of inexpensive manufacturing? Is the forecast solid enough to base an investment of billions of public transportation dollars? And what happens to toll-driven projects if the traffic fails to materialize? I’m not doubting the forecast. I just want to hold it up to public scrutiny.

Second, if the demand is as powerful as Bridges says it is, and if the Port of Virginia will enjoy such an overwhelming competitive advantage in winning the growth in container traffic, why does the U.S. 460 upgrade need to commit $500 million in state subsidies? Do the three construction consortia bidding to partner with the state accept these port projections? If so, how much new truck traffic do they expect the port to generate? And why can’t they pay the full freight?

There are good reasons to believe that the Panama Canal widening will create a great economic opportunity for Virginia. Of course, the state should endeavor to support that opportunity. But I would like to see the analysis, if it exists, that justifies committing the state to a half-billion dollar subsidy.


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29 responses to “Port of Virginia’s Growth Opportunity”

  1. ” Even though Norfolk International Terminals has added six new on-dock rail lines and doubled the capacity of its rail yard, the railroads aren’t expected to be able to handle the influx of traffic. Thousands of containers will have to move by truck.”

    I’m not buying this. Let’s see the rail numbers.

    and then let’s see a bang-for-the-buck comparison between adding additional rail capacity verses additional road capacity.

    then let’s see who pays for the additional capacity for each.

    until they provide compelling/convincing data to demonstrate that roads are the best path.. I’m not convinced.

    where is this truck traffic going after it leaves the port locale?

  2. the port authority folks seem to think that all that needs to be done to handle the additional truck traffic is to add capacity in the regional locale of the port.

    why do they think this?

    what are the other roads in Va that will see dramatic increases in truck traffic?

    and who do they think should be responsible for upgrading interstates and other primary roads in Va to handle increased truck traffic?

    this is a bad idea IMHO.

    we are talking about millions/billions of dollars of infrastructure impacts that the Port Authority wants to offload on taxpayers rather than have private rail add the capacity and add the cost to those that ship.

    very much like developers in Va… eh?

  3. DJRippert Avatar

    Why can’t Baltimore dredge another 5 feet of channel and be equal to Norfolk?

    1. I’m not positive, but I think the problem is that you’d have to dredge a channel the length of the Chesapeake Bay to reach Baltimore. That is cost prohibitive.

      1. DJRippert Avatar

        Jim:

        The depth of the shipping channel in the Bay varies but I recall 50′ being the guaranteed depth. However, the people at the Port of Baltimore are as optimistic as those in Tidewater:

        http://baltimorerealestate.citybizlist.com/1/2011/8/14/GBC-Opportunity-for-Baltimore-Looms-from-Panama.aspx

        I wonder how much money is being spent if you add up all the East Coast ports which are going to take market share from others in this canal widening effort?

        I also wonder if the West Coast ports which (presumably) will be losing business are cutting back.

        This is how bubbles start.

        The Canal Bubble of 2014?

        1. Thanks for pointing out that article, Don. Now you’re beginning to think like I do!!

          You raise an excellent point: What happens if all the East Coast ports spend gobs of money on port improvements, creating a lot of excess capacity — the Canal Bubble of 2014, as you call it? Will Hampton Roads get all the containers that that port authorities now project? Will the truck traffic materialize? Under the P3 agreements under consideration by the state, who will wind up holding the bag? How much will the state stand to lose if the traffic forecasts wilt?

          Very important questions!

  4. you know… the more you think about this….

    ships that carry more mean fewer ships, right?

    but in theory the amount of containers would not change substantially.

    what would change would be how those containers allocate along the East Coast and it may include additional containers if it becomes cheaper to ship them via boat through Panama rather than off load in LA and trucked across country.

    this would dramatically change our transportation network – both rail and road…depending.

    if you drive the wide open spaces EAST of California but WEST of the Mississippi – you see these really, really long unit trains carrying shipping containers.

    there are trucks, yes.. but the rails rule.

    why is that not the logical path also in the East?

    dumping a lot of new trucks on Va roads is a really bad idea.

    not only will it increase congestion at existing bottlenecks but we also know that trucks are what are killing our roadbeds and they do not pay their own way on maintenance.

    We had this big brouhaha over adding lanes to I-81 vs adding more rail and now we actually are dealing with more container and instead of looking at the costs of more rail vs more roads (plus the damage) – we seem to have gone directly to the “we need more roads” – but just in Hampton Roads.. and who knows where they go after they leave there.

    In the world of libertarians and Conservatives, this is not a public taxpayer problem. It’s a problem involving the private sector and how it accommodates new markets.

    what’s wrong with the market-based approach?

  5. by the way DJ – slightly off topic but I did not realize that Fairfax did not have a meals tax and now the GA is offering them a meals tax without a local referenda in trade for devolution.

    Your elected are talking about using meals taxes for transportation.

    what a novel concept! All these years they’ve been collecting personal property on cars and decals and NOT spending it on transportation ..all the while whining about the state not funding their transportation “needs”.

    tsk tsk.

  6. DJRippert Avatar

    “All these years they’ve been collecting personal property on cars and decals and NOT spending it on transportation “.

    Yes, Larry. And they’ve spent years collecting taxes on real estate without spending the proceeds on real estate.

    Personal property taxes are a tax on personal property. They are based on how much the personal property is worth, not how much it is used. The tax applies to many classes of property. Should the personal property tax on my boat be used only for waterway improvement?

    You and Jim Bacon live in a strange world where the best policy is to under-invest in high growth areas while you over-invest in low growth areas. Then, you two wonder why there aren’t enough jobs for everybody. You blame Wall St and Bacon blames Obama. Meanwhile, the Clown Shown continues its multi-century experiment in “opposite day”.

    It’s time to devolve everything – not just roads.

  7. Don, Upon what basis do you say that I “under-invest in growth areas”?

    I’m all in favor of investment. I just argue (a) for a rational system for prioritizing projects based on cost-benefit analysis and ROI, and (b) insist that, to the greatest extent possible, the people who use or benefit from a project should be the ones who pay for it. Once you meet those two criteria, as far as I’m concerned, it’s full speed ahead.

    Under the current logic for building projects, we end up with a lot of projects where costs run out of control, the return on investment is negligible or even negative, and the politically powerful shift costs to the politically weak.

    You seem comfortable with a decision-making process for allocating capital for public infrastructure that you would never, never tolerate as a CEO, venture capitalist or board member of a private company.

    1. DJRippert Avatar

      Jim:

      Your arguments are logically correct but inconsistently applied. The proposal to add tolls to Rt 81 never raised your hackles the way tolling the DTR has. I never heard a peep about tolls on the Charlottesville Bypass. The fact that the trucking lobby all but owns the Clown Show is rarely on your agenda.

      In a John Kerry-esque way, you demand “user pays” unless you don’t.

      Likewise, with ROI. You demand ROI calculations with the implicit understanding that such calculations are possible. However, you exercise a generalized rant at Bob McDonnell for borrowing money for transportation. You claim there are too many unknowns for McDonnell to take us into debt on transportation. The two points seem linked to me. If you can really determine the ROI for a project then you should borrow to the extent that the fixed interest is below the return on investment. Viewed this way, neither borrowing nor Virginia’s vaunted AAA rating would matter. In fact, the only thing that would matter would be maximizing the number of transportation projects where the cost of borrowing was lower than the ROI.

      Yet you seem fixated on an arbitrary AAA rating and “pay as you go” financing. Neither of these are rational when you can accurately measure the ROI of proposed projects.

      The logic of your arguments is fine. The inconsistency with which they are applied makes me wonder if we are seeing the whole picture.

      1. Don, Actually, I have blogged about how trucks in Virginia are not paying their fair share, and I will do so again if I get a good news peg to launch from.

        As for adding tolls for the Charlottesvill Bypass… I would support construction of the project by means of toll revenues… if the market demand existed, and if private entities were willing to assume the risk associated with the project. But the market demand does not exist and private entities would never assume the risk for building the project, so that is an exercise in the hypothetical.

        I don’t have a problem with McDonnell borrowing money. He can borrow the money cheaply now, and he can build roads cheaply. That makes total sense. What I fault is the process for selecting which projects to underwrite.

        I also don’t have problems with Public Private Partnerships… in theory. But I do ask a lot of questions. I don’t just blindly accept the administration’s word that projects like the U.S. 460 upgrade are a great idea. I want to push them into thinking things through and making the case. I have blogged a lot about the port tie-in, which is a legitimate benefit. You haven’t seen anyone else blogging about that, have you?

        I’m not opposed to U.S. 460. I’m agnostic. But when someone is going to spend up to $2 billion on a project, I want to make sure that expenditure has a sound economic basis. Other than issuing the Chmura economic-impact report — which leaves a lot of questions unanswered — the McDonnell administration hasn’t bothered to make the case.

        Given your antipathy to the “Richmond clown show,” I am surprised, nay, shocked, that you would not want to subject these multibillion dollar investments to closer scrutiny!

        1. DJRippert Avatar

          Why can’t the state of Virginia put tolls on the Charlottesville Bypass? That would be “user pays”.

          I would love to see a public ROI analysis of all substantial transportation projects. All that is needed for that to happen is the Clown Show to act. Yet that same Clown Show recently decided to vote down a revamping of the CTB to represent Virginia’s demographics today rather in the 1930s when it was last established.

          The Clown Show is your problem here. But, in the absence of the Clown Show suddenly becoming competent – what should be done? I think McDonnell is right in operating on gut feel in the absence of Clown Show action. He only has four years to make progress.

          I guess you would want him to stop and try to get ROI assessments written, debated and agreed. By the time that happens no transportation progress would be made during his tenure.

          ROIs are important. Are you demanding that the eternal Clown Show which operates with no term limits of any kind legislates such ROI studies? I hope so. If so, given your knowledge of Clown Show history, what time frame would be reasonable to expect the Clown Show to take this reasonable action? I mean, they’ve had 400 years so far. And what would you do in the meantime? Just stop? Hold your breath until you turn red?

          The Clown Show is hopeless. Waiting for them to act is tantamount to deciding to never act.

  8. blame? The folks I blame are the localities that think Richmond is responsible for building any scope and scale of transportation infrastructure – without regard to available revenues.

    I blame localities that make land-use decisions that CAUSE very expensive transportation consequences for Va taxpayers and who claim that’s it’s not the locality’s responsibility.

    As I’ve said over and over, Va is one of but 3 states where the “core” responsibility of the state is to come along like a giant pooper scooper and clean up the transportation messes created by bad land-use decisions made by localities.

    Every city and town in Va is directly responsible for their own roads.

    they have not gone broke… and they use a much higher level of care when making land-use decisions because they’ll end up with the road problems also if they screw up.

    Fairfax is the Poster Child of sucking on the Richmond Teat for transportation infrastructure while at the same time – creating very expensive transportation needs in the way they do businesses.

    DJ blames Richmond but absolves Fairfax of all responsibility for not taking more responsibility for it’s own actions.

    Now we find out that they do not have a meals tax when virtually every jurisdictions in the region has one.

    why is that?

    re: the nexus between car taxes and transportation.

    judging from what DJ said, are we to assume that fuel taxes could be spent on any purpose rather than dedicated to transportation?

    why the double standard? If we dedicate fuel taxes to transportation then what is the flaw in dedicating taxes on vehicles to transportation especially when you have infrastructure deficits?

    Fairfax CHOOSES to spend it’s taxes on it’s schools – to the tune of more than 12K per student… rather than balance spending between education and transportation – as the General Assembly has to do.

    Fairfax still lives in a world where they think ROVA owes them transpo dollars at the same time they refuse to lift a finger themselves to deal with the issue. Even Arlington and Henrico do better than Fairfax.

  9. “I blame localities that make land-use decisions that CAUSE very expensive transportation consequences for Va taxpayers and who claim that’s it’s not the locality’s responsibility.” This statement should be put on billboards and on everyone’s homepage.
    State law provides local governments are supposed to consider the impact of changes in land use on transportation. But this has been done on an exception basis. Fairfax County supervisors over the years — Democrats and Republicans alike — have approved more growth than could be handled by existing and affordable additions to transportation infrastructure. Then they turned around and blamed VDOT and the General Assembly.
    I don’t understand why DJR expects a state senator or delegate from RoVA to vote for higher taxes to help Fairfax County dig out of its hole. Index the gas tax for inflation for maintenance.
    The argument then goes — Fairfax County should raise taxes or get authority to impose new or higher taxes to build the roads that were needed to sustain development built in 20th Century. But then, people say “Wait a minute. Why should I pay more when traffic won’t get any better?” Without a means to delay new development until we can afford to build the roads we need, there will be no improvement in traffic. The demand factor needs to be controlled or increases in supply will not make a bit of difference.
    The big problem remains — the benefits of development go to one small group of people, while the costs are spread to everyone else. People don’t trust the system — i.e., local government on land use issues.
    Commercial real estate generates more real estate tax revenue than it demands in services. But added commercial real estate revenues does not reduce residential real estate taxes. We’ve seen both massive increases in commercial real estate and almost a tripling of residential real estate taxes in Fairfax. No one believes development benefits them. Cuz it doesn’t.
    I grew up in Minnesota. When iron ore and taconite mining was in its heyday, cities located in the Iron Range had some of the best schools and lowest residential taxes in the state. Iron mining development was a huge benefit. But, despite massive commerical development, Fairfax Schools are generally run down and residential taxes have become unaffordable to many. But for foreign immigration, Fairfax’s population would be declining.
    If we want better transportation, we need a new social contract that spreads benefits of development to those paying taxes to support it.

  10. DJRippert Avatar

    “I blame localities that make land-use decisions that CAUSE very expensive transportation consequences for Va taxpayers and who claim that’s it’s not the locality’s responsibility.” This statement should be put on billboards and on everyone’s homepage.

    So, where are the localities which are making good land use decisions? I’ll give you a hint: They don’t exist.

    I had this same debate with EMR. I asked him to name the communities which exhibited the construct of functional human settlement patterns. The answer was two isolated, small scale communities – one in Florida and one in Maryland.

    Later, I would ask why a settlement pattern which (to its adherents) had so many benefits would be so rarely seen. The answer was cost.

    When Bill Clinton left office, the United States spent about 32% of its GDP on government at all levels. Today, that number is 41%.

    I once asked the functional human settlement folks who used to participate on this blog what it would cost to implement the changes required for the US to achieve functional human settlement. Their answer was as shocking as it is probably true – government would have to spend over 60% of US GDP for a couple of decades.

    LarryG and TMT believe that localities can make simple and low cost decisions that would dramatically improve their transportation situation. However, they do not make those decisions because evil “Tyson’s landowners” have corrupted the political process.

    Presumably, the evil “Tyson’s landowners” have not corrupted the political process everywhere in the world. So, the simple and low cost solutions the two of you envision must be visible in the many, many places not yet corrupted by the “Tyson’s land owners”.

    Please name a few places.

    And please …. no small towns or places where the populations has shrunk below the available infrastructure (Buffalo, NY for example). Here are the rules:

    1. A population of at least 500,000.
    2. Population growth of at least 10% in each of the last two decades.
    3. A well functioning transportation system.
    4. Observable land use policies which have supported that transportation system.

    Oh, and one more thing … it would be very nice to see your example localities in a strict Dillon Rule environment such as exists with respect to counties in Virginia.

    Good luck boys.

  11. DJRippert Avatar

    TMT and LarryG:

    In order to help you guys with your research, I went ahead and looked at the 100 most populous counties in the United States. All of those counties had current populations over 500,000 people. Only one (Fairfax) is in Virginia. Then, I looked at those with two consecutive decades of 10% population growth. Then, I eliminated counties which are dominated by a large self-governing city such as Harris County, TX (includes Houston). The inclusion of an autonomous city within a county violates the Dillon Rule restriction I provided.

    Here is the list:

    25 counties in the top 100 have population growth at > 10% for each of the last two decades but are not dominated by a single large city with an autonomous city government. The vast majority of these localities have significantly better transportation systems than Fairfax County. Your thesis is that the problems in Fairfax are caused by poor land use decisions. Please direct me to the good land use practices in place at these counties.

    Riverside County, CA
    San Bernadino County, CA
    Tarrant County, TX
    Bexar County, TX
    Sacramento County, CA
    Palm Beach County, FL
    Fairfax County, VA
    Contra Costa County, CA
    Salt Lake County, UT
    Travis County, TX
    Pima County, AZ
    Montgomery County. MD
    Fresno County, CA
    Wake County, NC
    Duval County, FL
    Kern County, CA
    Gwinnett County, GA
    El Paso County, TX
    Collin County, TX
    Hidalgo County, TX
    Snohomish County, WA
    Cobb County, GA
    San Joaquin County, CA
    Will County, IL
    El Paso County, CO

  12. DJRippert Avatar

    Side note: I should have probably specifically excluded Montgomery County, MD since the Maryland State Legislature (in yet another clear example of superiority to the Clown Show) has specifically accorded Montgomery and Baltimore Counties home rule rights.

  13. DJRippert Avatar

    “As I’ve said over and over, Va is one of but 3 states where the “core” responsibility of the state is to come along like a giant pooper scooper and clean up the transportation messes created by bad land-use decisions made by localities.”.

    LarryG cannot see the forest for the trees. In fact, he can’t see the trees for the bark.

    1. Virginia is the only state with a widespread structure of independent cities. This fractures local government and makes it easier for the Clown Show to reign supreme.

    2. Virginia is the only state with a term limited governor. This reduces the power of the governor and makes it easier for the Clown Show to reign supreme.

    3. Virginia is one of only a hand full of states with extremely limited (if any) home rule for counties. This de-powers localities and makes it easier for the Clown Show to reign supreme.

    4. Virginia has, by far, the most onerous ballot nomination process. This requires national candidates to come, hat in hand, to Richmond’s political elite in order to get on our ballots. This creates favors to the Clown Show which allows the Clown Show to reign supreme.

    5. Virginia is only one of two states which hold off-year elections. This makes state government GOTV programs critical and allows the Clown Show to reign supreme.

    6. Virginia is one of only 3 states to hold core transportation management as a state level function. This added power allows the Clown Show to reign supreme.

    Wake up, LarryG. You are living in a Kleptocracy and you don’t even see it.

  14. DJRippert Avatar

    Virginia is only one of four states where state judges are appointed at the sole discretion of the state government thus allowing the Clown Show to reign supreme.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_state_judges_appointed_or_elected

  15. ” So, where are the localities which are making good land use decisions? I’ll give you a hint: They don’t exist.”

    they do!

    Every city and town in Va plus Henrico and Arlington have to bear the direct transportation consequences of their land-use decisions.

    these Va cities, towns and counties join 46 other states that do it the same way.

    you say: … no.. you BLATHER without offering a scintilla of real evidence:

    ” The vast majority of these localities have significantly better transportation systems than Fairfax County.”

    even if they did what exactly would that prove since the vast majority of them are directly responsible for their local transportation grid?

    your point is: …. all over the map… except on the point issue here…

    Fairfax has built the hell out of it’s county … and did precious little about taking responsibility for the transportation consequences of their land-use decisions.

    DJ keeps saying it’s the Clown Shows fault because Richmond forces Fairfax to go to it’s voters for tax increases and DJ wants the Clown Show to grant Fairfax County the right to create new taxes and increase existing ones without regard to it’s citizens.

    Fairfax has chosen to have a lavishly-funded school system instead of balancing their transportation needs with their education wants.

  16. just for the record. I’d fully support HOME RULE for ANY jurisdiction in Va if it came with the right of citizens to initiate referenda and recalls.

    and I’m willing to bet you that Fairfax County leaders and elected would vociferously oppose citizens having those rights.

  17. DJRippert Avatar

    Yes, LarryG … there are no traffic jams in the city of Alexandria or in Short Pump in Henrico County or on Rt 1 near Crystal City in Arlington County. Or on Rt 66 in Arlington County.

    Sometimes I really wonder about you.

  18. DJRippert Avatar

    Or on I395 in Arlington County.

    How did this happen, LarryG? How did a county with responsibility for its own roads end up with traffic jams?

    Could it be that these localities are still dependent on a financial distribution of the frozen gas tax from the Clown Show?

  19. DJ is on a tear today!

    I did not say they would make perfect decisions guy ESPECIALLY about roads that are NOT local – like the interstates.

    but I did say they have to live with their decisions – which is GOOD. they will long remember the bad decisions and won’t be able to blame them on VDOT.

    in terms of the Cville Bypass. If you did an investment grade toll study on it and it indicated that it would not be self-supporting – what does that mean?

  20. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Much in this blog post is several years old, such as Norfolk Southern’s upgrades.
    Yet the post ignores a larger question. Undoubtedly, the upgrade of the Panamanian waterway will facilitate imports of Asian goods into the U.S.Do we really need or want more cheap stuff from China to fill our car-centric Targets or Wal-Marts. This is just another round of the spending flurry and cheap financing that got us into the 2008 Recession, not to mention promoting more cars, more cul-de-sacs and more strip malls. What it means is that the Chinese will be getting more of our money, aid by their lopsided remnimbi exchange rates and trade deals.There goes our debt and balance of trade yet again. Are we supposed to say, goody-goody, at least Virginia will get some of it. Are we that naive, greedy and stupid?

  21. Peter says, “Much in this blog post is several years old.”

    Yeah, it’s called “background.”

  22. DJRippert Avatar

    Peter’s point about the “big picture” benefits of more imports is well taken. However, ports are two way streets. Exports will leave more efficiently as well, I assume.

    Another point is the continuing erosion of low to mid tier jobs to automation. Containerized shipping hollowed out the employment at ports. Now, bigger (and fewer) ships each carrying more containers will continue the process.

    This is a Virginia-centric blog so Virginia-centric coverage makes sense. However, there are macro issues such as our propensity to buy more than we need or can afford, Chinese currency manipulation and the loss of low and mid skilled jobs that are more important than the specific issues in Virginia.

    Sometimes, these issues can converge. For example, should Virginia adopt a much higher sales tax with a substantial allowance. Say, 10% tax with a $15,000 annual allowance? In other words, the 10% is collected at the point of sale but every taxpayer automatically gets a $1,500 per year refund on their tax return.

    You could even lower the state income tax as compensation.

    That would dampen consumption.

    Would people support it?

    No.

    Overall, people don’t believe that over-consumption is a problem.

    Anyway … just a bit of a ramble there.

  23. actually , there was a NUGGET in your rambling…

    ” Exports will leave more efficiently as well, I assume.”

    hmmmm…. that’s an EXCELLENT POINT!

    What is the plan for exports for Va?

    by the way -look at this:

    U.S. manufacturing sees shortage of skilled factory workers

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/us-manufacturing-sees-shortage-of-skilled-factory-workers/2012/02/17/gIQAo0MLOR_story.html?hpid=z1&tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost

    do you think there is opportunity for Va on this issue?

    Can Va – as a strategy – provide an education system that graduates the kind of educated workers that Manufacturers say they cannot find?

    If we do that, would it attract those kinds of manufacturers to Va?

    back to the Panamax Ships. Will Panamax ships go to the ports that will have exports to ship more than they go to ports that do not?

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