Will Democrats Revisit Virginia Net Zero Laws?

Senator David Marsden, D-Fairfax, sees “serious problems” in Virginia’s net zero laws.

By Steve Haner

For the third year in a row, Democrats in the Virginia Senate have shot down an effort to divorce Virginia’s auto dealers from California’s impending mandates on electric vehicle sales. But before the predetermined vote went down, the new chair of the committee made a surprise announcement that he and his colleagues are open to revisiting Virginia’s legal rush to end fossil fuels.

Senator David Marsden, D-Fairfax, said he and Senator Creigh Deeds, D-Charlottesville, have discussed using the period between the 2024 and 2025 General Assembly sessions to convene a conference on the 2020 Virginia Clean Economy Act (VCEA) and the many other statues they passed to suppress coal, oil and natural gas use.  Republicans later shared his musings on X.

What serious problems, Mr. Chairman? Tell us more.

Marsden is the new chair of the Senate Agriculture, Conservation and Natural Resources Committee and Deeds now chairs the Commerce and Labor Committee. The Virginia Mercury noted Marsden’s comments at the tail end of its report on the meeting, but it was the only actual news to break out that afternoon. The Richmond Times-Dispatch failed to mention Marsden’s announcement but had a nice photo of a half-empty Tesla charging lot in California.

Truth would have been better served by a photo of the stranded EV’s waiting for crowded, failing chargers in frigid climes this week. There is a reason consumers have not been rushing to buy EV’s at the expected rates.  Despite the happy talk from mandate proponents, the targets are pie-in-the-sky. The only winner in this whole process is Tesla, getting rich selling carbon credits under the cap-and-trade element of the California regime.

The various net-zero policy bills passed when Democrats had total control of state government under former Governor Ralph Northam (D). The wind and solar energy mandates in the VCEA are already adding to electricity costs for both major Virginia electric utilities, but the hard deadlines for closing all fossil fuel generating plants are still decades away. The impact of a mandatory percentage of new car sales being EV’s begins with the 2025 model year.

Deeds and Marsden are both Democrats, but their consensus must be seen as “bipartisan” in one way. Marsden receives most of his political money from Dominion Energy Virginia, a utility openly trying to hold onto at least some natural gas generation for challenging weather weeks like this one. Deeds, on the other hand, shows the strident environmental group Clean Virginia as his largest recent donor, with no major check from Dominion on his list. Both mega players will have a leader in their corner.

As to who will be in the average energy consumers’ corner, the list of stakeholders Deeds and Marsden will invite to the meetings is still to come. During the hearing on January 16 on the failed legislation to break from the California regulatory regime, at least some citizens not with a lobbying group spoke in favor of the bill on behalf of people who might not want an EV for some reason, not least the higher cost.

Senate Bill 3 and two related measures were combined into a single bill and then defeated 8-6.  Senate Republicans and Governor Glenn Youngkin (R) had shown a spotlight on the issue before the meeting and decried the outcome afterwards. It would have been more effective if the issue had received more heat and light during the 2023 election campaigns, but it didn’t.

The American Fuel and Petrochemical Manufacturing Association was one of the groups that did send a lobbyist to the meeting in support of the repeal bill. Late last year, it had Mason-Dixon Polling & Strategy add some questions to a survey.  Three years and two election seasons after the Assembly adopted this, it found almost half (48%) of respondents were still unaware that Virginia dealers are under a mandate to reach target percentages of EV sales, eventually eliminating gasoline engines from their new car lots.

Virginia is one of about a dozen states, mostly on the west coast or in the northeast, following the rules of the California Air Resources Board on vehicle sales. The 2021 legislation ordered Virginia’s Air Pollution Control Board to join the group, and if (and more realistically, when) the CARB amends California’s rules the default position is Virginia will follow along.

Supporters of repeal styled that as Virginia surrendering its sovereignty to another state, but backers of the mandate pointed out that complying with the Environmental Protection Agency is the only other choice. Virginia cannot devise its own rules. What the supporters of repeal failed to point out is that Virginians get to vote for EPA’s bosses but have no votes on California’s leaders, so sovereignty is an issue.

EPA is moving toward similar emissions mandates that will narrow the regulatory gap between the California-led coalition and the rest of the United States. The 2024 national election will probably decide the fate of that.  A year from now this could be moot.

Democrats pointed out Tuesday that passage of the initial bill in 2021 was requested and endorsed by Virginia’s auto dealers, significant political donors themselves ($1.25 million in the past cycle.) To underline that Tuesday, the group’s president issued a statement in support of the majority’s vote. His quote, used by Virginia Mercury in the link above, illustrates they understand only the heavy hand of government can make this happen. The free market never will.

“Mass adoption of EVs, however, requires government policies that are technologically achievable, maintain affordability, and complement the efforts of the private sector in advancing the vehicle fleet turnover needed to achieve the targeted environmental benefits within a timeframe that helps, not hurts, new vehicle buyers,” it quoted President Don Hall.

Virginia law already allows the state to provide grants to customers in support of EV sales in the state. Expect a budget amendment soon to provide the millions of dollars in funding to make that reality. Expect the auto dealers to be at the podium in support.

First published this morning by the Thomas Jefferson Institute for Public Policy. 


Share this article



ADVERTISEMENT

(comments below)



ADVERTISEMENT

(comments below)


Comments

63 responses to “Will Democrats Revisit Virginia Net Zero Laws?”

  1. LarrytheG Avatar

    Many, if not most of the laws and regs addressing vehicle pollution , started in California. It’s been the predominate leader that has led us to the much cleaner , less polluting, better gas mileage vehicles that many of us drive today and many urban places enjoy far less “bad air” days.

    Many remember “California Emissions” that made California cars different from other states cars and eventually “California Emissions” became de-facto Virginia emissions (as well as other states).

    So the question really is – is what California trying to do now – too much too soon or is it something that should not be done at all?

    Opponents ought to make that clear.

    Are they arguing for less rigid timelines or are they arguing to not to anything at all?

    Most folks who favor going forward are realists in terms of how soon and how quick and know the difference between “goals” and “drop dead” dates.

    1. James Kiser Avatar
      James Kiser

      the largest EV charging station is in Coalinga CA. it is powered by a diesel generator.

  2. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    Reality eventually wins.
    But due to political ideology of the Left (their false religion), we may not live to see it.
    Nuclear. Nuclear. Nuclear. With continued use of “fossil” fuels. Mandating power sources that aren’t reliable, and mandating the use of autos that are not dependable for “fuel,” is a first world, virtue-signaling cost imposed by the so-called elite on the people who actually make this country work.
    (While they fly to Davos in private jets… There is a reason we have Trump and it is not “extremists” or “Christian nationalism.” Try egghead, godless intellectuals who think they should run the world and impose socialism/communism everywhere which experience has taught, repeatedly, doesn’t work. But you do you Lefties with your non-falsifiable set of beliefs and SAVE OUR DEMOCRACY!)

  3. LarrytheG Avatar

    EV’s are at the “Model T” stage in their evolution. It’s not unlike the issues we had moving to unleaded fuel and with the changes done with “California Emissions”.

    We take for granted the cleaner air we now have that is a result of those changes.

    In a few years or sooner, EV’s will have increased ranges and a ton more places to recharge…

    We have modern-day luddites on EV technology IMO, mixed in liberally with the culture wars.

    EVs are not going to go away, they’re are only going to get better.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      Every cold start in the trusty 70 VW Bug cancels every Tesla in Warrenton for a week. Carbon is good.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        how many times have you had the engine out? That’s what I remember about bugs. 😉

        1. Do VW Beetles require regular engine rebuilds?

          That’d be surprising to me, because “Airhead” BMW motorcycles (their ‘R-bikes’) have the exact same ‘boxer’ engine configuration (horizontally opposed multi-cylinder) and the exact same cooling method (air or air/oil) as VW Beetle engines, and owners routinely get 150,000-200,000 miles out of those motorcycles before a rebuild is needed.

          1. Lefty665 Avatar

            Bet they don’t last nearly as long. HP/weight ratio is so much lower with Beetles that the engines get flogged under much higher load much more of the time. That accelerates wear.

            Wow, that’s a lot of miles on a bike! Believe I’d need a rebuild before I hit those numbers.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar

            Bet they don’t last nearly as long. HP/weight ratio is so much lower with Beetles that the engines get flogged under much higher load much more of the time. That accelerates wear.

            Wow, that’s a lot of miles on a bike! Believe I’d need a rebuild before I hit those numbers.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            I dunno. Perhaps they got better? Used to be way back when folks were extolling the virtues
            of bugs because you could drop the engine so easy. VW vans were famous for blowing engines.

          4. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            If you drive it right, keep clean oil, and avoid cheap gas you can get about 60,000 miles before a rebuild. I spent 1800 bucks on my last rebuild. You have to enjoy turning wrenches if you buy an old school VW.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cMPJjuj2w

          5. Do you know why the engines wear out so fast?

            Does using an oil cooler help make them last longer? Will an upgraded oil pump help?

            The BMW boxer twin engine is very much like “half” a VW engine (with two opposed cylinders instead of four), and they will last 3 to 4 times that many miles if you take proper care of them.

            On the plus side, the VW’s are inexpensive to rebuild.

          6. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            The engine case is pretty soft. Aluminum alloy. The crank shaft eventually beats out the bearings and the saddles wear out past line boring. I believe aluminum is used as part of the cooling for an air cooled system. Yeah external oil coolers help and so will a better oil pump. You can’t go wrong with a full flow oil cooling system.

          7. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Synthetic oil like good old Mobil 1 make any difference?

            I use Mobil 1 5W30 in my riding mower. It never seems to use any oil.

          8. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            I use conventional Castrol 10w 30. It’s so cheap. I change as soon as it looks dirty and loses some of the slipperyness. Clean oil is the key to keeping the crank bearings and rod bearings in shape.

            How boring EVs must be. “What did you do today on your Ev?” Oh I charged it and then admired it.

          9. LarrytheG Avatar

            So, surprised that synthetic would not be better but you know your car.

            EV’s WILL be boring, no question, and probably less expensive to operate. People will be free of oil cartels and price swings for gasoline.

            When I go to the Va State Fair, I always love to go visit the old tractors and steam engines and related. It’s fascinating to see the ingenuity that went into them.

            Some day, long after we’re gone, they’ll have Mustangs and VWs and other vehicles in the old timey tent!

          10. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            If I were going to use a conventional oil in an air-cooled engine, or even an older (pre 1980s) water cooled engine, I’d use a 15W-40 HDEO (heavy duty engine oil). These do not have limits on ZDDP (an anti-wear additive) because they are designed for diesel engines, but also work for gasoline engines. Therefore their formulation is much closer to what older engines were designed for. You can see from the spec sheet that an oil like Valvoline Premium Blue 15W40 has 800PPM of phosphorous and 890 PPM of zinc. Modern oils designed specifically for gasoline engines have very low levels of these additives to protect the catalytic converter. Modern engines are designed not to need higher levels of these additives. But the old ones? A 15W-40 HDEO seems to be the answer, and it’s available wherever engine oil is sold.

          11. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            That is good oil. I used it once on the VW Bus. Regretted it. In cold weather it is too thick. I had leaks everywhere. Ended up dismantling the motor and reassembling. Needed new heads and rings so it was fine and fun.

          12. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Should mention also that HDEO is available in 10W30 as well, but it’s not as commonly available as 15W40. Should you wish to try it again….

          13. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Strange, it’s routinely used in other engines down to 0F without problems.

          14. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            The VW engine case is split. The cylinders only have a paper gasket and torque. The oil cooler has two dinky rubber rings and just 12 foot pounds of torque. The oil pump has a paper gasket and fits in the case split. The rubber rings for 8 push rod tubes have to be perfectly fitted and heads perfectly torqued. There are so many places for an oil leak. Thin oil seems to work best for me. The thick stuff always finds a place to blow out. I keep a drip pan handy.

          15. LarrytheG Avatar

            is that stuff available at ordinary WalMarts?

            You might know… how come newer engines not only get synthetic but often very low viscosities…like 0w20?

          16. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Yes, 15W40 heavy duty engine oil is available at WalMart. Costco too. It’s VERY common stuff. Almost every 18 wheeler and school bus and RV and diesel pickup truck uses it. It’s most commonly sold in 1-gallon jugs.

            Newer engines get synthetic because automakers want to offer long drain intervals (like 7500 or 10000 miles) which require synthetic. The low viscosity is because newer engines have tighter tolerances and for fuel economy (an engine using 0W20 will get better fuel economy vs. one using 5W30).

            Worth noting that Ford started recommending 5W30 instead of 10W30 in the late 80s or early 90s, for fuel economy reasons. I think GM did the same. Most automakers were specifying 5W30 by the end of the 1990s.

            The lighter weight also helps in cold-weather starting but in Virginia we do not (usually) get weather cold enough to make a difference. Even 15W40 is fine down to 0F.

          17. Thanks.

            What rpm is considered “red line” for a VW engine?

            My BMW R100RS tops out at about 7,500, which is on the low side for a motorcycle. The rev limiter in my old FZR400 race bike engines did not kick in until it exceeded 14,000 rpm, and newer bikes can rev even higher.

          18. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
            James Wyatt Whitehead

            The red line is anything above what your grandmother would drive!

          19. LarrytheG Avatar

            air cooled, right?

    2. EV’s are at the “Model T” stage in their evolution.

      Okay. But the mandates on EV sales begin with the 2025 model year, which is the end of this calendar year.

      EVs are not going to go away, they’re are only going to get better.

      100% true. But they will not be sufficiently better by the end of this calendar year to justify the government mandating that a certain number of them be sold.

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        And mandating that eventually, ONLY they can be sold. It won’t stop with new cars sales — they will seek to get the existing ICEs off the road, too. The California Air Board is seeking info on antiques, the cars with the oldest and most polluting engines.

      2. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        And mandating that eventually, ONLY they can be sold. It won’t stop with new cars sales — they will seek to get the existing ICEs off the road, too. The California Air Board is seeking info on antiques, the cars with the oldest and most polluting engines.

        1. It won’t stop with new cars sales — they will seek to get the existing ICEs off the road, too.

          Agreed, but unless they really want to incite a second American Revolution they should hold off on that for another 40 to 50 years or so.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar

          It’s gonna play like the transition to unleaded gas, ethanol and California emissions.

          All the drama was expected but not necessary.

          largely boogeyman politics

      3. LarrytheG Avatar

        they’re going to adjust these dates as we go along I would suspect. NOthing to get rumps
        in an uproar about IMO. When I see the govt coming for my non-EV car… I’ll joint you!

        1. The dems in the Va house of delegates have just refused to revisit a deadline that falls before the next GA session. How do you explain that?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Well what happens if we hit the deadline? I think nothing.

          2. The state can punish car manufacturers and/or dealerships for not selling enough EVs. Will they? I doubt it, but why should these companies have to deal with even the possibility of begin punished under the law?

            And you know democrat politicians will blame the auto manufacturers for failing to meet the sales figures required in the law, even if they refrain from subjecting them to fines or penalties.

            One thing is for sure, they won’t blame themselves for jumping the gun on forcing EVs on the buying public.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            THe Feds/State can punish , true but until I see in the law that they will , then I’ll be skeptical.
            Why? It’s the same deal if they produce a car that does not meet emissions or their fleet does
            not meet fuel mileage standards, etc… the car fails safety standards… gasoline fails ethanol standards,
            etc, etc.. a company discharges stuff into rivers or smokestacks, ladders that are not safe, mercury
            in tuna or paint, etc, etc… you take all these things for granted apparently.

            If it were not for the govt, we’d be more like a 3rd world in terms of dangerous and harmful things
            that can harm people and kids.

            Our cities looked like 3rd world cities until we required vehicles to be cleaner and to burn
            unleaded fuel.

            Govt put restrictions on coal plants because of the SO2 and mercury they were putting into the air.

            The food you eat has govt rules out the wazoo…

            so I just don’t see it as bad or wrong. I’d not want those things revoked.

            Going forward, I trust the process the same way it has worked for all these prior things.

            If we can’t get to the standard, they’ll back off like they have before… they set a goal, if we don’t
            get there, they extend it out…

            I remember the naysayers when we went to unleaded gas. Gloom and Doom like you’re never
            believe! It’s some of the same folks now IMO.

    3. The private sector is speaking with regards to EVs…
      the new Buck-ee’s going in on I-81 will have 120 GAS pumps and 25 EV chargers.
      LISTEN UP

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        EVs will take longer to be accepted than originally envisioned so folks are looking for gas hybrids that use
        battery then switch over to gas when the battery is used up. Once EV’s get longer ranges, re-charge quickly and there are many places to re-charge, the transition will accelerate. Some folks will never switch but a lot of folks will simply because they’ll be cheaper to own and less subject to world oil prices affecting pump prices. Even some of the folks who currently are opposed… will be owners… like Hayner… I bet.

    4. What was the US tax payer subsidy for the Model Ts? And gas stations?

  4. EV charging systems should be limited to wind mills and solar panels.

  5. DJRippert Avatar

    As usual, reality doesn’t seem to intrude on America’s (or Virginia’s) politicians’ plans.

    Ford is cutting back plans for new EV construction based on lagging demand and high costs.
    Hertz is selling off 20,000 of its EV rent-a-cars citing high repair costs.
    Charging stations across the northern US ave long lines as the cold weather runs down EV batteries faster.

    Electronic vehicles will eventually be the obvious choice, economically and environmentally. I look forward to buying on some time in the future.

    But mandating a timeline for their adoption is idiotic.

    Moore’s Law applies to transistors and computer chips, not everything in technology.

    1. Lefty665 Avatar

      Moore’s Law has long since moved well beyond just transistor counts to much of technology, although certainly not everything as you note.

      Different parts progress at different rates, maybe transistor count this year, screens next year, storage next. In all it maintains the curve in Moore’s Law without relying on semi conductor density increases.

      Same with things like EVs, tech will continue to progress. One of the first pieces we’re already seeing is the reduced man hours required to assemble EVs compared to ICEs. Electric motor propulsion vs ICE is a lot simpler too. Progress will be uneven, but continue across many technologies.

      Volume makes a difference too, economies of scale. Texas Instruments used to predict that their costs would drop to 80% each time they doubled production of an item. The more EVs we get the more those economies apply.

      That said it looks like EVs are a good solution in a niche application, short trips in moderate weather. Forcing them universally like CARB and Virginia are doing is madness.

    2. and the rental companies are dumping thousands of EVs into the used car market while thousands more sit idle on car lots for well over 100 days each…. even with our tax money attempting to make them ‘affordable’

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        I think EV’s are like the “dot-com” bust. The early dot.coms failed not because the concept of dot.com was a failure but because the public wasn’t ready and the implementations of the websites were crummy. Once those things got better, look what has happened….

        same thing will happen to EVs.

  6. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
    energyNOW_Fan

    On CNN last nite I caught just the hind-end of a Virginia (Democrat?) political ad saying the recent election was a referendum on Youngkin and BigOil. The ad said Youngkin and BigOil lost the Virginia election because voters want green energy (wind turbines in the video).

    But I thought the recent election was about Youngkin and abortion rights, and Youngkin has supported Dominion ( as do all of our Govs). I admit the ad caught me by surprise, so I missed the intro.

    Electric vehicles in USA are having a serious residual value crisis, depreciating 50% in 3 years. But in Virginia, with our crazy car tax, that is huge incentive to buy an EV and save on tax bite. If Dems fund the Va. EV rebates, that could be triple whammy (with Fed rebates).

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Search in vain for signs of “big oil” on the VPAP website. Not a player in Virginia politics. I wish to hell it was. Certainly never funded me. 🙂

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        Maybe because Virginia is not Wyoming or Texas or Oklahoma…

        Maybe, now we have money from “Big EVs or Big Batteries” ?

  7. James Kiser Avatar
    James Kiser

    Interesting that the whole EV mileage set up by the EPA has turned out to be a mass fictionalization illusion. All EVs had the their mileage arbitrarily multiplied by 6.67. No mechanical or scientific analysis involved. The story was published in the WSJ on Jan 16, 2024. Also all the mass reports of batteries and chargers failing in the cold.

      1. Looks like the govt is the one that addressed this issue almost a year ago.

        You act as if the government did us a favor,

        The government is the only entity which can address issues with fuel mileage standards and fuel mileage computation. The government creates 100% of the fuel mileage standards, and determines the acceptable methods for calculating compliance.

        Congratulations, government, you caused a problem and have deigned to solve it. How nice.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          I think the govt DID do us a favor when it set mileage standards and I think the gov did a GOOD thing to continue looking at it and changing it if need be.

          Perhaps we have different ideas about govt?

  8. James Kiser Avatar
    James Kiser

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-electric-car-cheating-scandal-subsidy-rule-efficiency-falsehood-2798b4ab Here is link to a WSJ article proving the EPA rated mileage ratings for EVs is a charade.

  9. William O'Keefe Avatar
    William O’Keefe

    No one should object to taking a fresh look at the VCEA which will include the actual experience of attempting to get to net zero emissions.
    Actual experience in Europe, along with a number of studies, is demonstrating that the cost far exceeds the alleged benefits. Citizens in Germany and England are balking at the costs being imposed on them and strongly resisting the life style changes they are being forced on them.
    Polls here show a clear preference for gasoline powered cars. And, actual experience is showing that EVs are only popular in niche markets by people with high incomes.
    California has somewhat unique air quality problems which is why they were given an exemption in the Clean Air Act. Its problems don’t justify the stringent emission standards and movement to EVs that the VCEA would require.
    Our nation is making progress in reducing tailpipe emissions and in developing cleaner energy technologies. We do not need to meet an arbitrary deadline and incur either the costs or life style disruptions is will require.
    As members of the General Assembly contemplate the future of the VCEA, they should also keep in mind that we are accumulating a national debt that eventually will crater our economy if we keep spending money as we have been for the last decade.

  10. LarrytheG Avatar

    THe future is EVs and they won’t require govt to mandate it and is not in many parts of the world where China imports EVs that are as cheap or cheaper than ICE cars.

    ” Meanwhile, across the Pacific, car shoppers in China have a much easier time finding EVs within that price range — and thousands of dollars below it. Any Chinese EV brand could serve this point, but for the sake of comparison, consider the near Bolt equivalent, the new BYD Seagull. The electric hatchback gets about 251 miles of range and can charge between 30% and 80% in a half-hour.

    The starting price? 73,800 yuan, or roughly $10,183. That’s about $10,000 cheaper than America’s cheapest EV (after the tax credit), and it’s more than $5,000 cheaper than America’s cheapest car, the Nissan Versa, which lists for about $15,830.

    A vehicle like the Seagull on American soil might attract more EV buyers, decreasing dependence on cheaper gasoline cars and pushing the U.S. closer to achieving a net-zero emission economy by 2050. In China, an estimated one-third of new car sales are electric, compared with 5.8% in the U.S. in 2022.”

    https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/china-electric-cars

    It’s just a question of time before other Asian countries like Korea, start offering their own lower price EVs that will essentially overwhelm the US car market like what happened when Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Subarus nearly wiped out the US car market. Kia’s and Hyundai’s already have a significant share
    of the lower priced basic-car market in the US. EV’s are already
    staring to appear in their models.

    Americans love their big SUVs and Pickup trucks but much of the world drives smaller more fuel efficient cars and cheaper Asian-made EVs are flooding many European, Asian South American markets and the US auto makers are more and more rely on pickup trucks and SUVs with ICE engines while more and more young urban-dwelling Americans will find it easy to switch from Asian-made ICE imports to Asian-made EVs.

    The pro-fossil-fuel folks advocacy are going to further diminish the US as a maker of cars for the world market except for the rich.

    Handwriting is on the wall, question is – should opponents continue to rail against US EV “mandates” or are they going
    to face realities that EVs are already flooding the rest of the world which is starting to reduce dependence on fossil fuels that
    are even more costly in Europe at $5-7 gallon.

    In the next few years, we could easily see EVs in the 10K range (without govt subsidies) that have 500 mile ranges and recharge in minutes.

    Once that happens, ICE cars are doomed except for the hard core and rich.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3545a0ad9652bf902ad6f46260d8500419bafe931148cd66ab1f2ccb7ba2de0f.png

    1. William O'Keefe Avatar
      William O’Keefe

      Larry, you should move to China since you like what they are doing with EVs but what about coal plants and emissions from them. China accounts for something like 60% of global emissions.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        Whether you like coal or not does not change china which also has more solar, wind and nukes than others. Realities bill.

        1. William O'Keefe Avatar
          William O’Keefe

          Yes, realities matter and China is building two coal fired plants each week and leads the world in emissions.
          Have you ever been to China? If so, what do you think about purple air?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            How many nukes are they building? How much solar,wind? How about per capita emissions?

    2. how_it_works Avatar
      how_it_works

      There are some Youtube videos where people in the USA have imported cheap Chinese EVs.

      They’re crap…is all that you can say. The Chinese have no problem lying about what their products are capable of.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        That’s what I’ve heard also and no supply chain/dealer network to boot, but it’s gonna spur Korea and Japan to get in that game also IMO…it’s a matter of time rather than will exist or not

    3. how_it_works Avatar
      how_it_works

      There are some Youtube videos where people in the USA have imported cheap Chinese EVs.

      They’re crap…is all that you can say. The Chinese have no problem lying about what their products are capable of.

    4. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
      energyNOW_Fan

      Yugo was cheap too.

Leave a Reply