State Tax on PPP Grants Reduced Only Slightly

by Steve Haner

A Senate Committee voted today to reduce the amount of tax that Virginia will impose on the Paycheck Protection Plan (PPP) grants that saved Virginia jobs, but not by much. It remains clear many legislators think employers owe Virginia tax on those dollars.

Declining to tax the entire amount is being packaged as a gracious concession on the state’s part. 

“Tax it all” is still the opinion of Governor Ralph Northam, who has been pushing to impose state income tax on the full PPP amounts if those receipts are in effect loans which were forgiven. Arguments that this is not a tax on those grants is shameless sophistry.  I will waste no more words on disputing nonsense.

The Senate Finance and Appropriations Committee amended the Governor’s bill today to allow the affected businesses to deduct $50,000 of the expenses (mainly payroll) used to qualify for the forgiveness of the PPP funds. That was Congress’s purpose for the money – keep Americans working and businesses spending during a flash recession caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.

The amended bill applies only for tax year 2020, but would allow the deduction for all employers, whether organized as corporations or taxed as individuals.

The vote to report the amended bill was 10 to 4 with one abstention. Three Republicans and Senate Majority Leader Richard Saslaw voted no. Republican Senator Emmett Hanger voted aye. The original bill had an emergency clause to go into effect immediately upon approval, and those nays would normally have been sufficient to kill the bill. Emergency measures need 80% support.

But the state’s desire for the hundreds of millions of dollars it will reap by taxing PPP is so strong, the bill was amended to remove that emergency clause. Northam would rather create massive disruption in the tax filing process than have to cut his record state budget, already fattened by its own direct federal COVID grants.

The issue on PPP taxation is buried in the annual bill (usually non-controversial) to update Virginia’s conformity to federal tax law. Failure to pass the bill without the emergency clause means all of the changes coming down from Congress, many of benefit to individuals, cannot be reflected on Virginia returns due in May.

In an earlier meeting of the committee, Northam’s Secretary of Finance Aubrey Layne had discussed setting a $100,000 threshold for deductions of the PPP related expenses, in effect taxing all but $100,000 of the PPP money. That would have removed the problem for about 80% of the 108,000 Virginia employers involved. The average 2020 PPP loan was $107,000. Many exceeded $1 million.

The reason for moving that back to $50,000 was nothing but a refusal to part with revenue already reflected in the state budget, the same motivation for taxing these transactions in the first place. They will not be taxed at the federal level. They will not be taxed in several other states, which are agreeing to conform to the Congressional decision to exempt them.

Unfortunately, the assumption that this is a valid and fair tax has been adopted by the one general newspaper providing any coverage of this issue. Several stories in the Richmond Times-Dispatch have stated that exempting PPP from tax “costs” the state. Provide similar treatment to emergency grants the state offered under a Rebuild VA program “and the state would lose up to $24 million.” (Emphasis added.)

The opinion of Virginia’s senior U.S. Senator, Mark Warner, was sought. He’s a business guy, and he supported tax-free status at the federal level. But he took the same “thank us for not taxing you” stance and told the Times-Dispatch, “by some estimates it could cost the federal government $120 billion.” Somebody at the federal level actually estimated how much tax it could have collected on its own grants?

If Virginia wants a real windfall, it should force everybody who received an individual COVID relief check or deposit to add that to their taxable income.  Philosophically, there is no difference. Those funds might not even have been spent on deductible costs, unlike the business funds.

The Senate bill needs to go to the full Senate and then on to the House, where a similar bill has been “passed by for the day” for more than a week. It is clear the legislators are hearing from the companies, large and small, who are waking up to the reality the state wants a 6% cut of their PPP funds (if taxed as individuals, 5.75%.) This debate could follow the bill all the way to the Governor’s desk, so the pressure should continue.

“I think it is obvious we are going to have to amend the Governor’s proposal,” Senate Finance Chair Janet Howell of Fairfax said earlier this week, “even though some of us wish we didn’t need to.” This amendment may yet be amended again.


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Comments

36 responses to “State Tax on PPP Grants Reduced Only Slightly”

  1. LarrytheG Avatar

    The state taxes unemployment benefits, right?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      6 don’t.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        yep. I got that wrong. Virginia does not tax unemployment benefits but the Feds do.

  2. LarrytheG Avatar

    The state taxes unemployment benefits, right?

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      6 don’t.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        yep. I got that wrong. Virginia does not tax unemployment benefits but the Feds do.

  3. djrippert Avatar

    “If Virginia wants a real windfall, it should force everybody who received an individual COVID relief check or deposit to add that to their taxable income.”

    Of course that’s right.

    If Biden forgives student loans the amount forgiven should be taxed too.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Unless, they sent the check back with “VOID” in the endorsement area.

      Yes, if the student loan is forgiven, it could be taxed as you want. But what Steve is advocating is not taxing it but allowing the Student Loans deductions (line 20 sched 1) to be used anyway. Double dip.

  4. djrippert Avatar

    “If Virginia wants a real windfall, it should force everybody who received an individual COVID relief check or deposit to add that to their taxable income.”

    Of course that’s right.

    If Biden forgives student loans the amount forgiven should be taxed too.

    1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
      Nancy_Naive

      Unless, they sent the check back with “VOID” in the endorsement area.

      Yes, if the student loan is forgiven, it could be taxed as you want. But what Steve is advocating is not taxing it but allowing the Student Loans deductions (line 20 sched 1) to be used anyway. Double dip.

  5. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    28% of households in the bottom 50% of household income lost some or all income.

    The PPP money could have floated every one of those households for a year, maybe more. No missed rent, no unpaid utilities, no money for Trump’s friends.

    Now, the downside would have been more companies going tits-up, which means banks take a hit on business loan defaults. Most of those businesses, especially restaurants and bars will pop like mushrooms on a damp morning when the vaccines are out in earnest.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Now that’s truly an obnoxious statement. The PPP money kept tens of thousands employed. Then they paid rent, bought restaurant food, paid personal income and sales taxes. It is the greedy government seeking a $@&$ double dip. Greed beyond shame.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        10s of 1000s? How does that compare to 1/7 of 120,000,000 households? Every household in the bottom half could have been buoyed for a year!

        How many companies got PPP? How many wanted one?

        $400 billion! Just ballpark it.

        What’s that term of which conservatives are so fond? Moral hazard. The banks are the beneficiaries of PPP. AGAIN.

        1. Steve Haner Avatar
          Steve Haner

          I’m thinking tens of thousands in VA. but even that might be low — 113,o00 entities received loans. You want to debate the wisdom of the whole PPP approach, that’s another argument. But unemployment would have been even higher without it.

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            113,000 Va entities? Or say, 1/50 of that? How many employees in Va?

            It’s far cheaper to float the payroll on an employee by employee basis than float the business to float the employee. lifeboats are cheaper than cruiseliners. Why, just ask Jack and Rose.

            Keeping the business afloat protected the banks.

      2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        “Now that’s truly an obnoxious statement.”

        Oh! Sorry. Belly-up. Yeah, I’ve picked up some rather crude language. Boaters, ya know.

    2. “Most of those businesses, especially restaurants and bars will pop like mushrooms on a damp morning when the vaccines are out in earnest.”

      No guarantee of this. It depends on how many restaurateurs get totally cleaned out and how many preserve equity capital, and it depends upon the willingness of landlords and banks to advance restaurants credit. Most likely the chain restaurants, which enjoy superior access to capital, will survive while the local independents have a much harder time.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Chains? Like Ruth’s Chris? They snagged up something like 10 PPP loans. Yes, chains would have done better than the little guys.

        There are small businesses that did reorganize, threaten landlords and creditors and will come out of this like roses. There are resources aside from PPP.

      2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Best description of the restaurant business — EVER!
        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pEwqH3kbvlk

        When he says, “men,” think “restaurant.” When he says, “sharks,” think “banks and poor business decisions.”

        There’s a reason there are so many reality shows about restaurants going BK. The odds are like 1 in 3 not making 1 year, and that’s in GOOD times.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          Did someone say restaurants and VDH inspections?

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Best selling CD of 2016? Mozart.

            Of course. Who buys CDs? Boomers.

            This is gonna be a wonderful 2 years. Watching James, James, Steve, Dj, aka JJSDj, dance around Amanda “Mini-MTG” Chase take the RPV down the rabbit hole.

          2. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            My interest and attention will wane almost immediately.

  6. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    28% of households in the bottom 50% of household income lost some or all income.

    The PPP money could have floated every one of those households for a year, maybe more. No missed rent, no unpaid utilities, no money for Trump’s friends.

    Now, the downside would have been more companies going tits-up, which means banks take a hit on business loan defaults. Most of those businesses, especially restaurants and bars will pop like mushrooms on a damp morning when the vaccines are out in earnest.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Now that’s truly an obnoxious statement. The PPP money kept tens of thousands employed. Then they paid rent, bought restaurant food, paid personal income and sales taxes. It is the greedy government seeking a $@&$ double dip. Greed beyond shame.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        10s of 1000s? How does that compare to 1/7 of 120,000,000 households? Every household in the bottom half could have been buoyed for a year!

        How many companies got PPP? How many wanted one?

        $400 billion! Just ballpark it.

        What’s that term of which conservatives are so fond? Moral hazard. The banks are the beneficiaries of PPP. AGAIN.

        1. Steve Haner Avatar
          Steve Haner

          I’m thinking tens of thousands in VA. but even that might be low — 113,o00 entities received loans. You want to debate the wisdom of the whole PPP approach, that’s another argument. But unemployment would have been even higher without it.

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            113,000 Va entities? Or say, 1/50 of that? How many employees in Va?

            It’s far cheaper to float the payroll on an employee by employee basis than float the business to float the employee. lifeboats are cheaper than cruiseliners. Why, just ask Jack and Rose.

            Keeping the business afloat protected the banks.

      2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        “Now that’s truly an obnoxious statement.”

        Oh! Sorry. Belly-up. Yeah, I’ve picked up some rather crude language. Boaters, ya know.

    2. “Most of those businesses, especially restaurants and bars will pop like mushrooms on a damp morning when the vaccines are out in earnest.”

      No guarantee of this. It depends on how many restaurateurs get totally cleaned out and how many preserve equity capital, and it depends upon the willingness of landlords and banks to advance restaurants credit. Most likely the chain restaurants, which enjoy superior access to capital, will survive while the local independents have a much harder time.

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Best description of the restaurant business — EVER!
        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pEwqH3kbvlk

        When he says, “men,” think “restaurant.” When he says, “sharks,” think “banks and poor business decisions.”

        There’s a reason there are so many reality shows about restaurants going BK. The odds are like 1 in 3 not making 1 year, and that’s in GOOD times.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          Did someone say restaurants and VDH inspections?

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Best selling CD of 2016? Mozart.

            Of course. Who buys CDs? Boomers.

            This is gonna be a wonderful 2 years. Watching James, James, Steve, Dj, aka JJSDj, dance around Amanda “Mini-MTG” Chase take the RPV down the rabbit hole.

          2. Steve Haner Avatar
            Steve Haner

            My interest and attention will wane almost immediately.

      2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        Chains? Like Ruth’s Chris? They snagged up something like 10 PPP loans. Yes, chains would have done better than the little guys.

        There are small businesses that did reorganize, threaten landlords and creditors and will come out of this like roses. There are resources aside from PPP.

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