SCC Starts Review of Dominion Wind Proposal

by Steve Haner

Acting on its own initiative, the State Corporation Commission has established a docket to consider the coming application from Dominion Energy Virginia for its massive offshore wind proposal, the centerpiece of Virginia Democrats’ plan to save us all from catastrophic climate change.

Earlier this month, the utility started the federal review process with a notice of intent to prepare an environmental impact statement for the project. The clock on the first round of comments to the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management runs out August 2.

If Dominion builds all future planned phases, a full 5,200 megawatts, the sticker price is more than $17 billion, which with profit and financing costs will ding customers in total $37 billion over a few decades.

In its July 26 order establishing the case, the SCC outlined a series of questions the utility will need to answer in its application when it comes. The questions provide just a glimpse into the issues that will develop in what may soon be recognized as the Second Battle of the Virginia Capes.

Cost is front and center:

What is the total cost and the lifetime revenue requirement of the transmission necessary to bring the energy generated by the OSW Project to shore? Of this total lifetime revenue requirement, how much is investment, and how much is the Company’s projected return on equity? Identify the rate recovery mechanism(s) Dominion proposes or will propose to use to recover such costs from eligible customers….

(The Virginia Clean Economy Act) states that in acting upon a request from Dominion for recovery of costs associated with the OSW Project, “the Commission shall determine the reasonableness and prudence of any such costs, provided that such costs shall be presumed to be reasonably and prudently incurred if the Commission determines that… the utility has commenced construction of such facilities for U.S. income taxation purposes prior to January 1, 2024, or has a plan for such facility or facilities to be in service prior to January 1, 2028.”

Note: “…shall be presumed to be reasonably and prudently incurred” is the key phrase there.

With this provision in mind:

  1. Where in the PJM Interconnection, L.L.C. (“PJM”) generation interconnection queue is the OSW Project?
  2. Could any PJM queue backlog impact costs to consumers in Virginia? If so, in what ways? As an increase or decrease to such costs?

What’s next? Not everybody has to pay!

(The Virginia Clean Economy Act) exempts (i) Percentage of Income Payment Program eligible utility customers, (ii) advanced clean energy buyers, and (iii) qualifying large general service customers from any non-bypassable rate adjustment clause (“RAC”) approved for the OSW Project.

(Note: “Non-bypassable” means even customers in its territory able to use a supplier other than Dominion must pay for the offshore wind. Only some Virginians, those with no or with ineffective lobbyists, will actually pay for all this.)

  1. When does Dominion expect to have such customers identified?
  2. How will eligible customers achieve an exempt status? Will customers be required to request an exemption from Dominion?
  3. How does Dominion expect the number of exempt customers to change over time? In Dominion’s view, are the charges non-bypassable only when the customer is actively in one of the exempt statuses? If so, explain how (and how frequently) Dominion will monitor the customer’s on-going exemption status.
  4. Explain the measures Dominion will take to ensure these customers are not billed any OSW Project RAC and associated transmission and distribution costs. Also explain and quantify projected implications of the exemption on non-exempt customers.

Note: Count the electric coops among those with effective lobbyists who kept them out of this.

(The Virginia Clean Economy Act) also requires that “[n]o electric cooperative customer of the utility shall be assigned, nor shall the utility collect from any such cooperative, any of the costs of such facilities, including electrical transmission or distribution facilities associated therewith for interconnection.”

  1. How will Dominion ensure that it does not collect from its electric cooperative customers the costs of the OSW Project?
  2. How will Federal Energy Regulatory Commission jurisdictional transmission costs be allocated and recovered from non-exempt customers?
  3. Are transmission or distribution upgrades throughout the electric grid necessitated by the interconnection of the OSW Project “facilities associated therewith” per (the statute)?
  4. What measures (accounting or otherwise) will Dominion implement to separate OSW Project costs from those costs for which Dominion does bill its electric cooperative customers?

And now a question the obligatory equity and local pork barrel elements.

The Plan must include: “(i) options for utilizing local workers; (ii) the economic development benefits of the [OSW Project] for the Commonwealth, including capital investments and job creation; (iii) consultation with the Commonwealth’s Chief Workforce Development Officer, the Chief Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Officer, and the Virginia Economic Development Partnership on opportunities to advance the Commonwealth’s workforce and economic development goals, including furtherance of apprenticeship and other workforce training programs; and (iv) giving priority to the hiring, apprenticeship, and training of veterans, as that term is defined ….and workers from historically economically disadvantaged communities…..

  1. Should the Commission find that the Plan is not in keeping with the full requirements of the law, what if any effect should such a finding have on the OSW Project filing?

Not to derail it, certainly! Dominion’s answer to that will be, well, you must approve this gigantic investment because the General Assembly has blessed it all as “in the public interest.” Should the SCC disagree, Dominion will be back before the General Assembly as quickly as possible with the necessary tweaks to the law it basically wrote in the first place.


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80 responses to “SCC Starts Review of Dominion Wind Proposal”

  1. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    my head in spinning! whataboutism on steroids! 😉

    Is it appropriate to use the word “skeptic” with regard to expectations for clarity?

    Is it possible to do a gross calculation of how much these turbines will cost compared to how many megawatts they will produce?

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      I gave you the numbers. 5200MW. $17 billion cap ex, but $37 billion in total capitalized cost. That’s, what $7 million per MW of nameplate capacity? With an intermittent capacity? It is known by the technical term SLOM (S***load of money.) Offshore wind is the most incredibly expensive source. That is not in dispute.

      1. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
        energyNOW_Fan

        well, I would say not too many in public are aware of the high offshore wind costs. The liberal message is that all renewable projects are low cost if not free, as compared to ultra expensive fossil fuels.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          The problem is dealing with “facts”. Some folks just won’t, and prefer their beliefs that they obtain from wacadoodle political sources.

          It really makes no sense to purposely ignore the actual facts about the costs of wind AND make it political but that’s what some folks do these days. I’d say there is correlation between the wind/climate “skeptics” and the vaccine skeptics.. both seem to dispute science and prefer non-science sources for info.

          1. WayneS Avatar

            Okay. Please provide us with some “actual facts” so we will not be so ignorant and misinformed.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            it won’t help! 😉

            but here’s the issue for me. Do I believe the folks who are skeptics on climate and politically opposed to renewables, including offshore?

            Nope, I don’t and yep, I’ve gone out and found information that I trust more.

            You can do that too if you are so inclined, no?

          3. WayneS Avatar

            What a cop-out.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        re: ” Offshore wind is the most incredibly expensive source. That is not in dispute.”

        Nope. Once again, you have wandered into confusion about facts and realities.

        Offshore wind is the lowest cost in many, if not most other installations, but not this one and it has nothing to do with wind and everything to do with Dominion and their corrupt influence on Virginia legislative governance.

        Bad on You again for letting your climate skepticism conflate facts!

        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/20201019_Levelized_Cost_of_Energy_%28LCOE%2C_Lazard%29_-_renewable_energy.svg/285px-20201019_Levelized_Cost_of_Energy_%28LCOE%2C_Lazard%29_-_renewable_energy.svg.png

        1. Stephen Haner Avatar
          Stephen Haner

          That is onshore wind, maybe. Not offshore. You are as honest as the rest of the climate catastrophe believers. Go to eia.gov and search a bit….

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            give me a specific link at eia.gov. I can give you several specific links on offshore wind.

            When this issue started in BR, it was all about Dominion perverting the project, now it’s become the “climate skeptic” argument, no?

            😉

          2. WayneS Avatar

            I can give you several specific links on offshore wind.

            Okay. Please do.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            no you!

          4. WayneS Avatar

            Spoken like a petulant 5-year old child.

            You said you could provide links. I did not make such a claim.

            The burden is upon you to either provide the aforementioned links, or admit that you cannot do so.

        2. I expect many readers, like LarrytheG, will confuse the difference in cost between onshore wind and offshore wind. Onshore wind in the Great Plains has a very low levelized cost per megawatt hour. Offshore wind may have a competitive cost some day in the future — when a European-scale wind industry and support infrastructure has been built — but that infrastructure does not now exist on the East Coast. As a first mover, Dominion will help stimulate the creation of that infrastructure. Until that time, it will be paying to lease half-billion-dollar installation barges and the like.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I can pull up offshore wind costs also but the bigger point I was making is that what makes this project problematical is NOT the fact that it’s offshore wind – which has been installed for decades and is proven, but the way Virginia allowed Dominion to do it.

            https://cached.imagescaler.hbpl.co.uk/resize/scaleWidth/882/cached.offlinehbpl.hbpl.co.uk/news/OPW/windEcTHUMB-20190724124201776.gif

          2. You are correct, the big difference here is regulatory, not the siting. There is nothing inherently unwise about OSW. In fact, OSW has a higher capacity factor (percent of maximum output over time) than most on-shore sites because, just above the flat water surface the wind blows more hours per day, and stronger when it blows, plus there are seasonal wind benefits from convection due to the Gulf Stream’s warm waters. Those benefits are offset, of course, by the extra costs of construction and servicing wind generators out in the ocean plus the extra transmission line costs. — but over the lifetime of a wind generator the capacity factor benefit can substantially exceed the greater initial cost.

            Notably, here, Dominion wants its ratepayers to pay for all its initial investments in OSW. Once you’ve made the investment required in the initial infrastructure to support OSW, the incremental cost to add more of it declines. So, if Dominion later decides to build more OSW at shareholder cost, it should be more competitive in the wholesale marketplace than the initial units could have been; that is, the shareholders’ investment will piggy-back on all that earlier investment at ratepayer cost.

  2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    The answer… install solar yourself so you don’t have to pay Dominion for power at all…

    1. Baconator with extra cheese Avatar
      Baconator with extra cheese

      You win today’s white privilege award! This is the boot straps argument with a different bow.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        I think the term is “putting your money where your mouth is”. That being said, you can use a home equity loan to fund the investment and effectively lock into today’s rates for the life of the system (some 25 – 30 years) as a worst case. If SRECs take off, the investment gets even better. The option is available to any property owner with a south facing roof and no overhead shading issues (regardless of race). The installation itself adds equity to your home and might even increase a rental property’s return in the end. So if you think home ownership and rental property investment is a white privilege thing (surprising contention coming from the Right) then, guilty as charged.

    2. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      If you’re going to install solar power, have a professional do it. You’ll help a small business and you won’t blow up your house.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        I don’t think you will actually blow up anything with a solar system. But yes, unless you have the expertise, hire a professional. Make sure they pull the correct permits as well and everything passes inspection. Dominion must approve the system and change out your meter in the end and does not take kindly to you operating any solar system before all approvals and the new meter are in place – for good reason.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Well you’d be wrong, you’re charging batteries with a solar system. An incorrectly connected battery will in fact explode.

          Of course you’d tell them, how else are you going to get your refund.

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            No need to install any battery system with the solar system. A great deal of added expense and complications (and, yes, hazards) that are only necessary if you wish to go off the grid or have backup during outages. Not necessary for most current Dominion customers.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            The point is to not be reliant on the grid, without batteries you are using the grid every time there isn’t enough solar energy to cover your usage or to use your DC-AC inverter.

            Dominion requires the 25kW for this residential customers. That starts around $25k for package to met those requirements.

          3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            That might be your point, but mine was much simpler – install solar and avoid paying Dominion’s increased electric rates. No need for power backup for that benefit.

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Eric the half a troll Matt Adams • 11 minutes ago
            That might be your point, but mine was much simpler – install solar and avoid paying Dominion’s increased electric rates. No need for power backup for that benefit.”

            You’re not going to avoid rates increases, they are still only paying you 15 cents per kW hour for what you’re providing.

            Virginia is the South, with HVAC you’re not going to offset your bill unless you’ve got half a lot filled with panels.

          5. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Looks like my system will meet most if not all of my energy needs and it is just on half my main roof and about a third of my garage. My meter runs backwards when I am generating and forward when I am not. Based on my first three weeks, my bill will be pretty much a net zero.

          6. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            That’s a really funny story, if it were only true it would be less funny. As that isn’t how Dominion operates.

            https://cdn-dominionenergy-prd-001.azureedge.net/-/media/pdfs/virginia/save-energy/net-metering-how-it-works.pdf?la=en&rev=8427bdb713324c80a5e50b5f44a4d9c0

            I find it humorous that you attempt to lie about public information.

          7. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Yes, that is net metering and is what I described and is what I have. Notice, no batteries. As I said, my system will meet most if not all of my energy needs. I will not be impacted by rising energy charges from Dominion. I’m addition, I will ultimately make more money by selling my SRECs on the open market even if I use the energy myself.

          8. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            None of what you just stated us fact, nor is the factual that your meter runs backwards.

            You have a tie-in and clearly don’t understand how it works, by your own words.

            Your system will not meet your energy needs as you have no idea what your energy needs are, nor do solar panels run at night.

            Clearly you have no understanding of energy.

          9. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “…nor is the factual that your meter runs backwards…”

            It is a common expression used to describe net metering. See below for further explanation if this confuses you.

            “On any given day, the vast majority of solar users generate more electricity than they actually use. This excess power can be fed back into the existing grid, resulting in the credit. Effectively, the meter “runs backward” whenever your system is feeding your excess back into the grid.”

            https://www.solarcostguide.com/guides/net-metering-my-meter-spins-backwards/

            I never said I would produce energy at night – that is you making things up again. I said my system will meet most if not all of my energy needs (using net metering, this is true) and I would not be impacted by Dominion rate changes and this is also true. I said that I have no backup battery system and need none because I have no need to go off the grid to realize this benefit which is also true (again thanks to net metering). Further, I will make extra $ by selling SRECs when that market is established in Virginia which is also true.

          10. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Umm again you have no idea what you’re talking about, you’ll still be subject to Dominion rate changes as you are still assessed generation and transmission fees.

            You won’t buy hey it’s fun to pretend you have an iota of an understating what you’re talking about.

          11. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I have attached a snapshot of Dominion’s bill calculator for the “generation” and “transmission” portions of their bill for my area. You will note that all parts of these charges are based on net kWh usage. To ease your understanding, I set the net kWh usage to 0 so you could see exactly what fees will be assessed. In fact, the only part of the bill which is not based on net kWh usage is the Basic Customer Charge (in my case $6.58). One should be careful for if you were to install a >15kW (AC) system, Dominion is able to assign a series of “standby charges” based on peak kW demand. My system does not (by design) exceed this threshold. I hope this is helpful in your continued education on the matter.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/68393a349ed88d8d8d241eac577ad9c3c2303283fcddf04033c4940ba45ee229.jpg

          12. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Ease my understanding? You don’t know a lick about what you’re trying to discuss and are being patronizing.

            P.S. that’s not a Dominon bill format from either Loudoun County, Fairfax County or Spotys as I’ve lived in all three with their service.

            P.S. Dominion doesn’t accept residential systems under 25kW, which was contained in my previous link. So again we can further conclude you’re a lying sack of excrement.

          13. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            The Dominion bill calculator (from which the screen shot came) can be found here:

            https://www.dominionenergy.com/virginia/billing/understand-my-bill

            It shows you all the fees for your Dominion bill and how they are calculated. Not hard to understand – even for you. Please show me any charge that is not based on kWh usage (aside from those I identified above.

            And here you will find the net metering UPPER limit of 25kW. I quote:

            “Maximum renewable generator sizes (AC capacity):

            Virginia Residential – 25 kW
            Virginia Non-residential – 3000 kW”

            Review the FAQs located here:

            https://www.dominionenergy.com/virginia/renewable-energy-programs/net-metering

            In case you are having trouble understanding that is a MAXIMUM size of 25kW not minimum.

            Btw, also from the Standby Charge FAQ item at the same link:

            “The standby charge only applies to Net Metering customers served on Virginia Residential Schedule 1 with a generation system size in excess of 15 kW AC.”

            As I said above. Also last time I looked 15kW was less than 25kW.

            I think I know where you made your mistake but really have lost interest in spelling everything out to you. I suspect you will figure it out eventually.

          14. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Again you lying little troll, you’d still be charged generation and transmission fees as you aren’t using solar power outside of the 5 hour window.

            Hence, what you produce it nothing but BS.

            As I’ve said before I’m well aware of what Dominion bill s look like and yours doesn’t reflect that.

            Would you like me to do the equations for your of how it would be impossible for what your stating?

            Oh and if you’re placing Solar Panels for a 15kW system on your house, it’s a pretty big house as it requires 1000 sq ft to install that amount. Large enough it would require more than you could output.

          15. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            You truly are an idiot. The excess energy you create during the day is logged as credits on your meter (commonly said to “running backwards” as I said above). When not generating, you use up those credits first. You only are charged for electricity that is used after those credits are used up. Based on my current generation rate (and as designed) most, if not all of my electric usage will be covered by my solar system. My net usage will be at or close to 0 so I will not pay any transmission or generation fees. I gave you the link to the bill calculator from Dominion. It is all there for you to see in black and white. That you are too lazy to even look at it is not my problem.

            I believe I have about 756 sq ft of panels on the back half of my roof and about a quarter of my garage roof. As I said, I designed it to be below 15kW. No need to pay Dominion’s Standby Charge.

          16. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Naw, not really. You however don’t have a clue how your “system” operates and the notion that your system supplies you enough energy to offset your usages in the 5 hours daily we get in VA is for a lack of words hilarious.

            You’ve provided nothing but a black snipped that isn’t from Dominions site, as I indicated I’ve used them in multiple locals. Nor does it reflect the documentation that you were provided to tell you how it operated (which I can surmise you hadn’t a clue and still don’t).

            Electricality Supply Services will be used by you regardless and you will be billed for them regardless.

            Derp da derp trolly wonka.

            “Dominion’s basic service charge for all customers – that is, the amount a customer pays before flipping a single light switch — is $9 a month. But solar customers would pay $19.50 a month.
            Plus, Dominion’s new “solar subscription fee” of $5.40 per kilowatt of solar installed would mean a typical customer with an 8kW system would pay $43.20 per month.
            Taken together, the new Dominion charges would mean a typical solar customer would pay $752 yearly just in unavoidable fees, or seven times what that customer pays now.”

            https://www.southernenvironment.org/news-and-press/news-feed/dominion-energy-unveils-job-killing-rate-hiking-solar-fees

            756 sq ft would be for a 13kW system, I doubt you have the capacity to design anything given the lack of knowledge on every topic on this blog.

            So you can again stop lying.

          17. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Umm that’s for additional charges and for future users, what you were shown are the current charges.

            Let me break down the math for your “system”, I say that because you keep changing what you have.

            A 13kW produces ~50kWh per day, which would give you around 1500 kWh per month on average. The average house in VA during the summer consumes around 2000 kWh per month given our climate and HVAC usage.

            So the notion that you have a zero dollar bill is in a word, bogus. Not to mention the fees you were just shown are assessed even before a kW is used. If you are hooked up to the dominion grid, you’re going to be paying them a fee for the connection, regardless of power consumption.

          18. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4067fe9b9a47a2c2c3c9bcf7aa2e39278e0c24d99030e2dd943867d14e05d34b.jpg

            Here is my energy production for the last two weeks, Sparky. Looks like I will exceed your 2000 kWh monthly generation goal. You should also note that I have a solar hot water heater (and have for some 20 years). Hot water accounts for about 15-20% of energy usage so you can chop that off my demand as well.

            You showed me no fees. You linked to an article where Dominion SOUTH CAROLINA proposed new fees for solar system users. I showed you that those proposed fees were rejected. Plus, you know I don’t live in South Carolina… right…??

            I provided the link to Dominion’s bill calculator that showed that all fees (aside from the basic service fee) are calculated on a kWh basis. But here, I’ll give you the link again:

            https://www.dominionenergy.com/virginia/billing/understand-my-bill

            Now in the first sentence, you click on the blue “Bill Calculator Worksheet” link and magically the Bill Calculator Worksheet will download to your computer. Then you can show me (take a snap shot) where there are ANY charges (aside from the Basic Service Charge) that are NOT calculated on a kWh basis. You think you can handle that complex feat, Ace?

            You are wrong yet again – just like when you said that Dominion does not do net metering for <25 kW systems. Just like when you said transmission and generating fees are not calculated on a kWh basis.

            Over and over again. Do you ever tire of being wrong, Sport?

          19. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            You produced ~519 kWh, ~50 kWh/day is 350 kWh, I guess congrats you’re exceeded the mathematical output for your system. So again what size do you have a 13kW or a 15kW, because you keep changing your statement.

            Umm no, your capture doesn’t indicate that you’ll exceed the 2000 kWh for the month, you could be less disingenuous and show July as a whole month. However, I suspect since it would disprove your statement, you won’t.

            “Here is my energy production for the last two weeks, Sparky. Looks like I will exceed your 2000 kWh monthly generation goal. You should also note that I have a solar hot water heater (and have for some 20 years). Hot water accounts for about 15-20% of energy usage so you can chop that off my demand as well.”

            I’ve not even spoken about a water heater, you don’t have a hot water heater. You have a water heater, you don’t need to heat hot water.

            Yes, I did show you fees, you just chose to ignore them (shocked).

            Umm the link you just provided, I provided to you and guess what, it doesn’t reflect what you’ve been saying.

            You’re accessed ESS before you even turn a switch on.

            “You are wrong yet again – just like when you said that Dominion does not do net metering for <25 kW systems”

            That’s a nice strawman I know this because those words never came out of my mouth.

            “Just like when you said transmission and generating fees are not calculated on a kWh basis.”

            They aren’t.

            “Over and over again. Do you ever tire of being wrong, Sport?”

            That’s humorous given the sheer number of lies and errors you’ve stated in this comment alone.

          20. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “I guess congrats you’re exceeded the mathematical output for your system.”

            You calculated the theoretical output of my system. That you don’t know how to do that correctly is not my problem.

            “you could be less disingenuous and show July as a whole month.”

            I’ve not been operating the entire month of July. I gave you the only two complete weeks I have.

            “I’ve not even spoken about a water heater, you don’t have a hot water heater. You have a water heater, you don’t need to heat hot water.”

            Technically I have a solar domestic hot water system. Point remains. My demand is 15-20% lower than those who do not have such a system.

            “Yes, I did show you fees, you just chose to ignore them (shocked).”

            No, you did not (shocked).

            “Umm the link you just provided, I provided to you and guess what, it doesn’t reflect what you’ve been saying.”

            I included a screenshot of the page I linked in my last comment. You see that blue “Bill Calculator Worksheet ” in the first line, go to the page and click it and follow the directions. Jeesh, some people are just complete dolts!!

            “”Just like when you said transmission and generating fees are not calculated on a kWh basis.”

            They aren’t.”

            See second screen shot of Dominion’s Residential Service Rate Schedule. They are.

            “You’re accessed ESS before you even turn a switch on.”

            Not true as they are assessed on a per kWh basis – see snap shot of Residential Service Rate Schedule.

            “That’s a nice strawman I know this because those words never came out of my mouth.”

            From your post 4 days ago:

            “P.S. Dominion doesn’t accept residential systems under 25kW,” https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5d05a0bba2b12d445e5c1c316618f0e88ee47f7de2add8e902a1a24fabd60a59.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4ccd0ca043dc406c3b0d3f99c75a73fea69455ecfbfed7e5e87dff4ea9d7816d.jpg

            Still not tired of being wrong? I’ve got an idea, why don’t you double down?!

          21. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “You calculated the theoretical output of my system. That you don’t know how to do that correctly is not my problem.”

            But I do how the output your system is calculated, there in lies the problem with you claiming on thing and providing data for another.

            Not to mention your values are before the derating factor.

            “I’ve not been operating the entire month of July. I gave you the only two complete weeks I have.”

            So you were lying then? Shocked face.

            News Flash, you produce solar power at peak times which on average is 5 hours a day. The largest draw on systems is at night and morning when you’re producing none. You would be using power delivered by Dominion in those times, therefore depending on your draw you’d be accessed a fee from Dominion.

            “”P.S. Dominion doesn’t accept residential systems under 25kW,””

            A stark difference from what you claimed I stated, however. You’re a dishonest individual, so again I’m not shocked.

            Your ENPHASE data of ~90 kWh (as I can’t tell the exact value with a BS bar graph) is actually 72 kWh watts of usable AC power. Good for you, for again exceeding the power abilities of a 13 kW system. So I’d suspect you don’t have a 13 kW system but rather a 15 kW system which you initially claimed.

            Now I don’t know if you’re aware of this or not, but DC doesn’t convert to AC on a 1 to 1 rate, darn that physics. Which is why a derate factor of .8 is applied.

            Which is why I laugh when you claim your setup will make your bill zero, it won’t, it cannot there is no possible mathematical way for that to occur. As your system cannot mathematically produce over 2000 kWh for a month.

            Oh and just as an aside, read the following:

            “”Plus, where the Customer receives service in accordance with
            Paragraph XXV – NET METERING of the Company’s TERMS AND
            CONDITIONS and where the alternating current capacity of the Renewable
            Fuel Generator exceeds 15 kW, the Customer shall be billed a Distribution
            Standby Charge of $2.62 per kW of demand, minus the charge under II.A.2.,
            above, but not less than zero.””

            Note the bold, which you’ve indicated that your system exceeds the 15kW output and therefore you’d be subject, derp da derp.

          22. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “But I do how the output your system is calculated, there in lies the problem with you claiming on thing and providing data for another.”

            Clearly you made an error when you said I had a 13kW system. I am not surprised.

            “So you were lying then?”

            Not in the slightest.

            “You would be using power delivered by Dominion in those times, therefore depending on your draw you’d be accessed a fee from Dominion.”

            Not if my net usage is zero or less.

            “A stark difference from what you claimed I stated, however.”

            Not at all.

            “Note the bold, which you’ve indicated that your system exceeds the 15kW output and therefore you’d be subject, derp da derp.”

            “where the alternating current capacity of the Renewable
            Fuel Generator exceeds 15 kW”

            You do know what “alternating current” means don’t you… I will be charged no Distributing Standby Charge.

            “As your system cannot mathematically produce over 2000 kWh for a month.”

            Again, that 2000 kWh threshold is a creation of your own mind and does not reflect my actual usage. You do know, for instance, that I have a ground-coupled heat pump system, don’t you. Oops… just shaving away those kWh every day…

            Look, Sport, not like this hasn’t been fun but I’ve got better things to do than to correct your errors all day. At least you have given up your claim that transmission and generation fees are not based on kWh usage… I call that improvement… give yourself a pat on the back….

          23. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Umm nope.

            You said you had a 13kW system, after you indicated you at a 15kW system. The difference in power output in kWh in those two systems is 1200 kWh and ~200 sq ft.

            The calculations are the exact same, the average output per panel is the exact same (~50 kW/day).

            “Not if my net usage is zero or less.”

            False, you’re net usage has nothing to do with Dominion charging you fees based upon when your connection made the demand. You can’t offset something that is operating a variable rate above what you can provide.

            Yes, yes it was.

            “”where the alternating current capacity of the Renewable
            Fuel Generator exceeds 15 kW”
            You do know what “alternating current” means don’t you… I will be charged no Distributing Standby Charge.”

            That statement isn’t logical nor is it valid. Your solar system generates DC direct, which your inverter turns into AC current to power your 120 Vrms house. You’re claiming that you produce in excess of 2000 kWh, which is the threshold for a 15kW system and therefore you’d be subject to the additional rates as described.

            “Again, that 2000 kWh threshold is a creation of your own mind and does not reflect my actual usage. You do know, for instance, that I have a ground-coupled heat pump system, don’t you. Oops… just shaving away those kWh every day…”

            2000 kWh isn’t a creation of my own mind, it’s the output for a 15kW system. (~70 kW/day)*30 days = 2000 kWh.

            Geothermal Heat-Pumps use kWh’s to operate, especially below certain temps.

            “Look, Sport, not like this hasn’t been fun but I’ve got better things to do than to correct your errors all day. At least you have given up your claim that transmission and generation fees are not based on kWh usage… I call that improvement… give yourself a pat on the back….”

            They aren’t, you’re accessed a flat fee for having a connection.

            PS: So you’ve spend $13k on a water heater (which isn’t on demand), ~$30K on a solar system ( you know nothing about) and $30k on a Geothermal heat pump.

          24. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “You said you had a 13kW system”

            You lie.

            “False, you’re net usage has nothing to do with Dominion charging you fees based upon when your connection made the demand. “

            Fees are charged based on your net kWh usage. If it is zero, you get charged zero.

            “2000 kWh isn’t a creation of my own mind, it’s the output for a 15kW system. (~70 kW/day)*30 days = 2000 kWh.”

            Even this calculation is a creation of your own mind. There is no such unit as kW/day. kW is itself a rate not a unit (kWh/h to be exact). kWh is the unit. You can’t even get units correct. My system is <15 kWac. No Distribution Standby Charge for me. I don’t care if you can’t comprehend this fact.

            “Geothermal Heat-Pumps use kWh’s to operate, especially below certain temps.”

            Yes, but significantly less than standard heat pumps. My usage for my house is well below average.

            “So you’ve spend $13k on a water heater (which isn’t on demand)”

            Far less than that and yes it is. Again, you know not of what you speak

            “~$30K on a solar system”

            Actually less than that when you take tax incentive into account.

            “$30k on a Geothermal heat pump”

            Again far less than that.

            “They aren’t, you’re accessed a flat fee for having a connection.”

            Yes, $6.58 basic service fee but not a part of generation or transmission fees.

          25. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Again, that is false. If there is a party who is lying it has been and will always be you.

            “I believe I have about 756 sq ft of panels on the back half of my roof and about a quarter of my garage roof. As I said, I designed it to be below 15kW. No need to pay Dominion’s Standby Charge.”

            756 sq ft is the exact footage to install at 13kW system sold by ENPHASE, your supplier. For a price of $22,706.00 online through solarelectricsupply.com.

            “Fees are charged based on your net kWh usage. If it is zero, you get charged zero.”

            You don’t have zero usage, you don’t have batteries. You’re using Dominion service outside of the 5 hour peak window. Regardless of how many times you repeat it, you’re still wrong.

            Umm no, no it’s not, that’s exactly how it’s calculated.
            kW/day is kW used per day, it’s your monthly usage divided by 30.

            “Yes, but significantly less than standard heat pumps. My usage for my house is well below average.”

            Yeah, that’s not even close to being true. 25%-50% reduction in electricity is a very broad range and would depend if your house was designed with it in mind.

            The tax credit for installation in 2021 is 26%, that’s still north of $20k.

            “Yes, $6.58 basic service fee but not a part of generation or transmission fees.”

            Funny you insisted that you were accessed any fees, now you changed. I’m shocked I tell you shocked.

            If you’re receiving power from Dominion, you will accessed those fees. I’m sorry that you can’t even comprehend your own bill.

          26. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “kW/day is kW used per day”

            You don’t use kW, you dolt, you use kWh. I am done with you. You will never learn.

          27. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            “Eric the half a troll 12 hours ago
            “kW/day is kW used per day”

            You don’t use kW, you dolt, you use kWh. I am done with you. You will never learn.”

            Cool story, so when are you going to stop lying?

            Lets play a game, tell me how a DC to AC converter works and I’ll concede that you “designed” your own system.

  3. Robert Kirby Avatar
    Robert Kirby

    I believe there is an edit/typo error in the post which may lead to some confusion. “If Dominion builds all future planned phases, a full 5,3200 megawatts…” Based on context, the number should read 5,200 megawatts.

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Yep, fixed, thanks. Fat fingers, bad eyes. My copy editor missed it too. No, wait…

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        What you don’t send your work to Half Wit, Larry or Ninny for proofread prior to publish?

  4. tmtfairfax Avatar
    tmtfairfax

    Meanwhile, America’s sh&&&est power company presented me with outage number FIVE since last October. Another reason to look forward to paying my last Dominion bill in the foreseeable future.

    1. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
      energyNOW_Fan

      Tar heel in the making?

      1. tmtfairfax Avatar
        tmtfairfax

        Yes, indeed.

        1. John Harvie Avatar
          John Harvie

          FPL has great rates and a much better dividend payout than Big D.

        2. WayneS Avatar

          Dominion Energy is one of the “big three’ electric utilities in North Carolina. Are you moving to a part of the state where they do not provide electricity?

          1. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            Much of North Carolina is served by electric cooperatives. Dominion is pretty much confined to the north eastern part of the state and only serves 120,000 accounts according to the info on this page:

            https://www.carolinacountry.com/your-energy/energy-education/electric-utilities-in-north-carolina

          2. WayneS Avatar

            Excellent information. Thank you. I may need it myself some day.

    2. Brian Leeper Avatar
      Brian Leeper

      One of my first clues that things in Virginia are just a little “herp-derp hee-haw dum-de-dum-de-doo” happened when I moved here as a young boy of 11 back in 1988.

      The power in the new house we moved into went out EVERY SINGLE TIME IT RAINED. And stayed out for well over an hour.

      And that continued for several years until Dominion found someone with enough brain cells to rub together to find the cause of the problem, as opposed to just replacing a fuse again.

      I think a halfway-decently run electric utility would, at some point (long before several years passed) have had an employee think to themselves, “Gee, we’ve replaced this same fuse 3 times in the last few months, there’s a problem here and we should find it and fix it”..

      I am, of course, making the assumption that Dominion actually sent someone out to find the root cause of the problem, as opposed to it being corrected “accidentally” when the work necessary to connect the new subdivision across the street was done.

      But it’s not just Dominion. I find that doing things half-ass (or not at all) is pretty much the way they roll in Virginia.

      Just the other day I saw a VDOT truck drive right past a sign that fell down. The top bolt apparently fell out so the sign is upside down.

      No f***s were given and the sign remains upside down.

  5. I’m glad to see the SCC is finally taking a serious look at the system-wide consequences of Dominion’s wind farm proposals. It has received no serious scrutiny before. The levelized cost of energy product by the wind farm is only part of the equation. The other issue is how that energy flow enters Dominion’s grid. What will it mean to have such as large percentage of the company’s energy production sitting on the far eastern edge of the grid? What transmission-line upgrades will need to be made to accommodate the electricity flow? How much back-up and redundancy will the system require to counter the intermittency of wind production? The $17 billion that Steve mentions represents only the wind project costs. How much will the system-wide investments cost?

    The only place anyone has discussed such things are here on Bacon’s Rebellion. There has been nada from the Northam administration or the renewable cheerleaders in the media.

    Once upon a time, Virginia’s public, media and political class were highly sensitive to rate increases. Once upon a time, there would have been tremendous pushback. Now nobody evinces the slightest concern about the increases barreling down upon us. Environmentalists don’t care. Indeed, insofar as higher rates help depress energy consumption and CO2 emissions, higher electricity rates are deemed a goodthing. Cost is no object when it comes to saving the planet!

    Meanwhile, Dominion is in hog heaven at the prospect of investing tens of billions of dollars worth of projects to reach zero carbon by 2045 — “don’t throw me in that briar patch. Oh, please, don’t throw me in that briar patch.”

    1. Yes. Now if Dominion had to build all that new generation on its own nickel, at shareholder expense, and recover that cost in the competitive wholesale electricity marketplace like everyone else building generation these days, perhaps the costs would turn out to be reasonable after all. But Dominion has carte blanche to gild the lily at ratepayer expense, thanks to the GA and that damned “Virginia Clean Economy Act.” Don’t blame the SCC for this one.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        and THAT was the essential point prior , not that wind was “costly” – that wind in Virginia was costly because of the way that Virginia went about it with Dominion. Even Haner was outraged initially but then that gradually changed to “outrage” about “wind”, forget the Dominion thing….. 😉

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      re: ” How much back-up and redundancy will the system require to counter the intermittency of wind production?”

      What you have right now is a system that depends on gas and it already has those facilities.

      All the wind generation does is allow Dominion to not burn the gas when wind is available. There is no additional back-up needed, just keep what you have and use wind when you can.

      1. As a member of PJM, Dominion is “backed up” by all the other resources of the PJM region. Of course it has to pay for the electricity it buys when the wind doesn’t blow. Normally those market tradeoffs would impose enough economic discipline that Dominion wouldn’t plan a lopsided dependence on wind power without some backup resources of its own. But Dominion has arranged Virginia law to impose all the risk, all the investment cost, all the operating expense, on its retail electric ratepayers — not on shareholders — regardless of what the SCC or anybody else thinks is reasonable. That is what all of us ought to be outraged about. Not as if I (and many others) haven’t been saying so for years.

      2. “All the wind generation does is allow Dominion to not burn the gas when wind is available. There is no additional back-up needed, just keep what you have and use wind when you can.” I don’t believe it’s true even today that Dominion has enough generation to cover all its off-peak needs, but it will be much farther from true if Dominion builds nothing but OSW for the next decade.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          The implied premise is that there is no backup for the wind and it has to be built – an additional cost to building wind but it’s simply not true at least in the short term.

          Wind and solar are indeed intermittent but all that really means is you don’t build it as REPLACEMENT , you build it to SUPPLANT gas generation – when it is available.

          Keep the gas plants. As time goes by, you may well need additional ones but from what I’ve seen in Dominions IRP, there is some question about increasing demand even with the advent of electric cars.

          All the “climate” stuff aside, from purely an economic perspective – a fuel source that is cheaper than existing is worth using even if it is not always available. Use it when you can to reduce costs which is exactly how gas replaced coal!

          1. Yes, use it when you can — unless the generator you need the rest of the time cannot be cycled off-line efficiently.

            The real solution is battery storage, which cycles instantly. We should all be thrilled by the recent news reports of a cheap, easily-scalable iron-oxide-cycle battery.

          2. WayneS Avatar

            Keep the gas plants. As time goes by, you may well need additional ones

            Aren’t they required to be zero carbon emissions by 2045 (for electric power generation)? If so, why would they build new gas plants?

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You will need the gas plants until battery technology is cost-effective. These dates are goals, not drop-dead dates.

            So, no confidence that in the next 20-25 years, they won’t advance technology as much as we have in the past 25 years?

          4. WayneS Avatar

            These dates are goals, not drop-dead dates.

            The following is from the LIS summary of the “Virginia Clean Economy Act” (emphasis mine):

            “Virginia Clean Economy Act. Establishes a schedule by which Dominion Energy Virginia and American Electric Power are required to retire electric generating units located in the Commonwealth that emit carbon as a by-product of combusting fuel to generate electricity and by which they are required to construct, acquire, or enter into agreements to purchase generating capacity located in the Commonwealth using energy derived from sunlight or onshore wind. The measure replaces the existing voluntary renewable energy portfolio standard program (RPS Program) with a mandatory RPS Program. Under the mandatory RPS Program, Dominion Energy Virginia and American Electric Power are required to produce their electricity from 100 percent renewable sources by 2045 and 2050, respectively.

            That’s a “shall” not a “should”, and while no one is going to literally drop dead if when Dominion miss the deadline, it does not change the fact that the 2045 date is a requirement, not a goal.

            PS – If you require me to, I will look up and cite the actual text of the law itself.

            PPS – Y0u know what, never mind. I already looked it up:

            Code of Virginia §56-585.5.B.3 – “By December 31, 2045, each Phase I and II Utility shall retire all other electric generating units located in the Commonwealth that emit carbon as a by-product of combusting fuel to generate electricity.”

          5. WayneS Avatar

            Keep the gas plants. As time goes by, you may well need additional ones

            Aren’t they required to be zero carbon emissions by 2045 (for electric power generation)? If so, why would they build new gas plants?

  6. William O'Keefe Avatar
    William O’Keefe

    The problem is that the SCC begins by accepting the General Assembly’s theory of the case. That is that the Dominion project is needed to get to zero emissions as part of the effort to save the planet. In fact, this is a colossal boondoggle and example of the Baptist and Bootlegger theory of public choice.
    The narrative that a planet catastrophe is on the horizon is based on a misuse of the IPCC’s scenario–RCP8.5–which is predicated on a continuous rise in emissions with no actions taken to constrain them. This was based on an overestimation of coal outputs. One assessment has concluded that this scenario is “increasingly implausible with each passing year.”

    There are a large number of actions that can be taken to control future emissions and to help developing countries develop while constraining emissions. China, which is building new coal fired power plants on a weekly basis is the major obstacle to more progress. The SCC should ask itself why Virginians should take on such an expensive burden that will have a negligible impact on China’s emissions. It should also explore the cost-effectiveness of alternatives to constraining the emissions of Virginia citizens. The offshore wind farm would not be at the top of the list of sensible actions.

  7. The “Virginia Clean Economy Act” illustrates a disgusting perversion of the regulatory process in Virginia. That said, the provision purporting to pass along these costs to Dominion’s wholesale electric-cooperative customers messes with transmission rates which are FERC-jurisdictional and the FERC will not pay any attention to such a State law. As for Dominion distribution facilities, which are State-jurisdictional, co-ops do not use these.

    You ask where in the PJM interconnection queue these OSW projects might be. There are, today, under-utilized extra-high-voltage transmission facilities connecting the Hampton Roads area to the rest of the grid. However, 5200 MW of new generation looks like it will fill that existing excess capacity and then some — there will have to be new transmission built. Lots of it.

    Who will pay for that, under FERC regulation? Currently, FERC practice is that any incremental transmission additions to the grid required to accommodate new generation are charged to the owner of the new generation. That of course is Dominion, here. How those costs are passed on to retail customers is up to the State Corporation Commission — whose hands are tied by the “presumed reasonable” language you cite in the law. How those costs are passed on to wholesale customers, like electric cooperatives served by Dominion, is up to the FERC, which I expect will approve them to the extent they are grid expansion costs reasonably incurred, and such costs are usually spread over all customers roughly in proportion to load (including co-ops) in the PJM Dominion Zone per the FERC-approved PJM tariff. So the result, transmission-rate-wise, may be just about what the State law demands even if that law is irrelevant to FERC.

    The FERC has just initiated a new investigation of transmission rates nationwide intended to shift some of the longer-range, more far-reaching costs of grid impacts away from generation owners and towards customers generally, because of the large shifts in generation at new locations reflecting newer generation preferences like solar and wind, which impact the existing grid in ways it was not designed for and impose costs that don’t reflect individual generators’ decisions. Former SCC Commissioner Christie, now on the FERC, is participating in this. But here, since the OSW generator’s owner is also the retail electricity supplier, FERC’s transmission rate re-allocation won’t change the impact much on retail bills.

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Gonna be REAL interesting. My absence from this playing field may be ending….Next I need to check in on the rate case! 🙂

      1. I hope the recent decision by the South Carolina PSC to reject Dominion’s IRP filing in that State, followed by a complete re-do by Dominion, does not escape the scrutiny it deserves here in Virginia. Here’s an account of it: https://www.utilitydive.com/news/south-carolina-regulators-ok-a-dramatically-revamped-dominion-irp/602420/

  8. WayneS Avatar

    It’s too big to fail…

  9. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
    energyNOW_Fan

    Yesterday I briefly sat in a virtual meeting about offshore wind sponsored by the BiPartisan Policy Center.

    Here a link:
    “Unlocking the Potential of Offshore Wind”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcEU93KFgbE

    The Vineyard Wind project offshore Massachusetts is the first to get federal approval. It is 800 MW. Most states are different than Virginia approach, going for low cost bids.

    The Vineyard project is quoted at 6.5 cent per KW/hr. I presume that number probably excludes much of the total true cost, such as transmission lines, building of construction plants etc.

    Nonetheless it certainly sounds more attractive to get a low cost bid like the rest of Northeast states are doing.

    In other news, Biden Admin looking at giving federal payouts to fisherman due to loss of fishing grounds if the Northeast progresses the offshore wind turbine mania. Loss of fishing grounds has been a major hold up to date.

    In other words, if you cannot get your way try to legalize bribery. Sort of equivalent to giving over-sized community benefits to town which host landfills.

  10. […] The most expensive element of VCEA compliance, the largest offshore wind project planned anywhere in this hemisphere, is just starting its run for SCC approval. […]

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