McAuliffe Promise to Accelerate VCEA Schedule Will Accelerate VCEA Consumer Bill Increases

2020 SCC staff projection of monthly residential bill increases by 2030 for Dominion Energy Virginia customers, mainly tied to a rapid retreat from fossil fuels.

by Steve Haner

When a State Corporation Commission staff analysis warned last year of $808 annual increases in Dominion Energy Virginia residential bills by 2030, that 58% increase was based on the existing deadlines set for Dominion’s conversion away from using fossil fuels.

Change the deadlines, change the cost. Shorten the deadlines by half, as Democratic gubernatorial nominee Terry McAuliffe is promising to do, and 2030 electricity costs will grow even higher. 

The 2020 Virginia Clean Economy Act set a deadline of 2045 for Dominion Energy to meet a renewable portfolio standard of 100%. The deadline for Appalachian Power Company in the western part of the state is 2050, but it has far fewer generation assets than Dominion within Virginia. Under current law, Dominion only needs to be about 60% fossil-free and APCO 45% by 2035.

In campaign speeches and debates, McAuliffe has pledged to move both 100% deadlines to 2035, ten years earlier for Dominion and fifteen years earlier for Appalachian. That would completely upend years of negotiations between anti-fossil fuel state officials, environmental activists and the utilities, and throw most existing compliance plans in the trash.

Three factors will accelerate the customer bills for both utilities if a quicker timeline is imposed, somewhat by 2030 and significantly by 2035.

Dominion serves 68% of Virginia’s 3.9 million electricity accounts, Appalachian Power 14% and the various rural cooperatives 16%. Source: SCC

First, customer bills will have to reflect a faster build-out of planned new solar, wind and battery assets. The cost of each new unit appears on customer bills when operations begin. More will need to be in service sooner, which of course is what advocates want.

Recent Dominion filings project its renewable investments out to 2035, but the firm is not planning to reach all its renewable generation goals by that point. In Appalachian’s plan to comply with VCEA, an even higher portion of the needed investments were planned beyond 2035. In terms of impact, McAuliffe’s accelerated schedule might hit Appalachian customers harder.

Second, the companies may need to take ratepayer dollars and buy far more renewable energy credits (RECs) on the open market, especially if the renewable build-outs cannot accelerate to the new deadlines. Absent their own renewable power generation, the RECs achieve compliance. REC sellers may prove the biggest beneficiaries of McAuliffe’s idea.

Finally – and often forgotten – customer bills by 2030 (and certainly 2035) may include stranded costs from perfectly useful fossil fuel plants which get closed earlier than planned. Once approved and built, utilities are guaranteed to be paid in full for those plants, even if they close early.

How to compensate Dominion for eleven coal plants already closed early is a key argument in the current accounting review. It involves close to $1 billion in ratepayer cost, money paid for zero power production. Under current plans, most of Dominion’s newer natural gas generators are scheduled to remain online another 20 or 25 years. What will it cost to close them by 2035? Appalachian Power also has fossil fuel plants it could run past 2035.

Appalachian Power has not filed projected rate impacts for compliance with VCEA, but those are expected next year when it begins another integrated resource plan review. Its compliance depends on much smaller amounts of new solar power, onshore wind installations and some battery storage. It does not include the massive offshore wind facility that is central to the Dominion compliance costs.

The SCC residential cost estimate produced for Dominion by staff economist Carol Myers has become a common talking point for Republicans in the 2021 campaigns. It has been dismissed as too high by Dominion, but its own projection (also on the table above) exceeded $600 per year. Both are based on usage of 1,000 kWh per month, which is lower than the actual average for its residential customers’ bills, so add 10% immediately.

The campaign pitches usually don’t note that the projection involves much more than just the impact of the VCEA and includes costs from pre-2020 bills such as those dealing with coal ash disposal and burying lines. The overarching theme, however, is ending the use of coal and gas rapidly and replacing them with solar, onshore and offshore wind, and battery facilities to hold that energy when there is excess. There is every chance the SCC’s preliminary price tags on those future investments are too low.

Informative, huh? Click for larger view of this typical page from the SCC testimony.

The appendix filed with the SCC case documents gets into gritty detail over those costs, year by year until 2035. But the data cannot be seen because Dominion or others have requested it be kept secret. Myer’s testimony has page after page of redacted charts and tables. (See pages 35-49) If visible, it might prove the basis for a guesstimate on how much above $808 per year we might be looking at.

Lacking the data, just know this: It will cost more, much more, if the timetable moves left. Yes, some of that money will be spent building the plants and thus create short-term jobs but, remember, closing fossil plants kills many long-term jobs. Every construction paycheck will be coming from a higher family or business energy bill.


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75 responses to “McAuliffe Promise to Accelerate VCEA Schedule Will Accelerate VCEA Consumer Bill Increases”

  1. Personally, I’m really excited about the idea of paying $600 per year more on my electric bill in exchange for a grid that is more vulnerable than ever to catastrophic, system-wide collapse during extreme weather events. Even better if we’re all driving electric vehicles that can’t be recharged, and we can’t even evacuate. And a special bonus if we manage to shut down gas heat.

    I think shivering in zero degree temperatures for two or three days during a polar vortex could be a very positive communal bonding experience.

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      England in about 90 days….

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      the boogeyman commeth again…and again… and again…we’re all doomed.. and gonna die…. yadda yadda….

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        You do get the irony of that, right?

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          sometimes…. 😉

          One must wonder what might have come to be if Conservatives had succeeded in shutting down the Govt mandated fuel efficiency standards for cars – as well as other energy-consumptive stuff.

          The “conservative” path to energy efficiency is boogeyman boogeyman boogeyman until after the regulations are passed and implemented, then they claim to have been for it all along . 😉

          1. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            Look at what is happening in England and Germany and then make your boogey man statements. Conservatives did not try to shut down fuel efficiency standards; they tried to lessen them. Do you know how much the current standards add to the price of a new light duty vehicle?

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            What’s going on in Germany and England in the eyes of Conservatives is the same thing they claimed in Texas.

            It’s mythology and fairy tales to suit their politics than reality.

            https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/britains-energy-crisis-has-been-decades-in-the-making/

        2. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          I think what’s missing is “soon”. Immediacy takes the humor out of everything.

    3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      Actually distributed generation makes the grid more reliable, not less.

      1. tmtfairfax Avatar
        tmtfairfax

        I get the logic. But who will invest in, and maintain, the grid for distributed generation? I sure hope it’s not Dominion. We’ve been out of power seven times since last October.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          TMT – is your NC provider going to be Duke Power?

          1. tmtfairfax Avatar
            tmtfairfax

            No, I think it will be Wake Electric Coop. If not that, then the town of Wake Forest.

        2. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          As a result of poor fuel supply, generation maintenance, or the crumbling grid infrastructure?

        3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          The beautiful thing is that the grid does not need upgrading for distributed power. There needs to be huge upgrades for bringing on line centralized renewable generators. All the offshore wind will come on shore with big “pipes” which require new substations to handle and new high voltage transmission lines to get it to the grid. Same thing is true for large-scale solar. One of the primary criteria for DE in site selection is proximity to substations and transmission lines. Small residential and small-scale commercial do not have these requirements. In any case, it will be DE who will be responsible for the grid. This is the primary excuse DE uses for sticking net metering customers with a monthly standby charge based on peak demand for any installation over 15kW AC that has no tie to net kWh usage – word to the wise.

          1. tmtfairfax Avatar
            tmtfairfax

            God forbid that Dominion would be in charge of the grid. The plant is old and outdated and they don’t trim trees or remove brush.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I was curious as to your view with respect to WHY some people do buy whole house backup generators for $6K or so?

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        It’s all sparky inside the wires.

    4. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      or be without power for a month because of “weather”? 😉
      Most folks , most sane folks would do what is already done in other countries and in Louisiana and other hurricane-effected states these days and limit heating and cooling to one or two rooms and/or use backup power.

      We are so spoiled in this country. Billions of people live, work, raise their families, and live everyday lives with 1/10th the power we use.

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Energy-consumption-per-capita-2003.png/440px-Energy-consumption-per-capita-2003.png

  2. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    “Your new anti-fossil fuel president is largely responsible for those spikes.”

    Steve Haner has a deep understanding of how the SCC sets electricity rates but I doubt he really understands the dynamics of the global energy picture. At the moment, China is short of energy, Britain has big fluctuations and Germany is lacking coal. The global prices of natural gas and coal have reached highs not seen in a number of years. Blaming Joe Biden for this is absurd. Does he control energy pricing in China, the UK and Germany? Really?

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Biden could read “Art of the Deal” and solve everything.

      Mandate Coal Not Vaccines!

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I wonder if that’s Manchins bottom line. 😉

    2. tmtfairfax Avatar
      tmtfairfax

      Biden is not responsible for what’s going on in other countries, but the dolt is advocating for similar policies that led to these problems. He’s stupid to start with. Who flunked third grade in your class? No one. A number of boys repeated kindergarten or first grade, but no one flunked third grade. To flunk third grade, one really must be dumb. Then Biden suffers from dementia on top of that. But for the media kissing butt daily, Biden would be a laughing stock.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I’m surprised at you. Didn’t you say your son had problems and needed help – and did get it?

        Do you think sometimes other kids don’t get it when they need it ?

        And you’d attribute that to being “stupid” ?

        Not true in your son’s case, right? Just needed “help”?

  3. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    And then this: ” Natural gas prices are rising and could be the most expensive in 13 years this winter

    * Natural gas prices have been racing higher and are now 99% higher year-to-date, on a combination of supply concerns and rising demand.

    * Natural gas is expected to keep rising, and if there is an especially cold winter, Goldman Sachs analysts see the potential for another doubling of price.

    * The jump in prices will impact some consumers who use it for heat, and utilities and companies that use it in production processes.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/09/natural-gas-prices-are-rising-and-could-be-the-most-expensive-in-13-years-this-winter.html

    Having to replace our HVAC this summer (20 yrs old), we paid attention to the energy rating of the new unit. Also had to replace a dryer and again, paying attention to energy rating. I don’t think we’re alone.

    California and New York already pay much higher prices for electricity, and one obvious result is they use much less per capita. Do those folks pay more attention to efficiency and use?

    Will people in Virginia pay more attention to use if the price of electricity increases?

    https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/images/2018.02.13/chart2.png4

    1. tmtfairfax Avatar
      tmtfairfax

      If we really want to eliminate fossil-fuel emissions, we need to put more money into nuclear fusion research instead of gambling on wind and solar.

      The goal of making energy prices higher is stupid. We need reliable, low-cost energy to power the economy. And the wind doesn’t always blow. The sun doesn’t always shine. But the real goal is to enrich the solar and wind folks.

      We were down in Wake Forest earlier this week. While the builder is experiencing some back-order issues, the house is coming along. And I’ll be getting power from the Coop. Good riddance to Dominion and to the idiots in the General Assembly in Richmond.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I agree to put more R&D into fusion and small modular reactors that can be sited in urban areas where demand is high. But I also think R&D should be accelerated into storage because storage would be a game-changer for intermittent energy sources as well as increasing the reliability and fail-over redundancy for the grid
        .

        1. tmtfairfax Avatar
          tmtfairfax

          Massive improvements in battery or other forms of energy storage would be a major plus, as well.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Here’s the hard thing. Despite years of research, we still do not have cost-effective storage. And despite 60+ years of research, we STILL don’t have safe and cost-effective nuclear energy.

            So the question is – is this something we should be paying taxes to pursue, or just leave it up to the private sector?

          2. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            Both statements are false. There has been a lot of progress in nuclear energy–eg SMR–and there is now a push for storage batteries which will come on line soon. There is also a great deal of progress in carbon capture technology. I’d be willing to wager that that combined with gas powered electrical generation will prove more cost-effect than the renewables being pushed by politicians.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Then why are Bacon and Haner playing boogeyman on energy?

            on storage – if cost-effective storage comes to be – what is the argument against solar/wind then?

          4. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I suspect that green hydrogen will play a big role in solving the storage issue.

          5. tmtfairfax Avatar
            tmtfairfax

            I can see an argument for government funding for basic research. Product-related research should be paid by the private sector.

      2. how_it_works Avatar
        how_it_works

        So, you don’t engage in the collective narcissism that makes people think that Virginia is the best state in the country?

        I mean, after all:

        “To be a Virginian either by Birth, Marriage, Adoption, or even on one’s Mother’s side, is an Introduction to any State in the Union, a Passport to any Foreign Country, and a Benediction from Above.”—Anonymous

        Or, put another way:

        “To be a Virginian is to believe that one’s feces are not malodorous”- A realist

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Oh I definitely think some Virginians “stink”, no question!

          1. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Are those the “come heres” that taint the pristine beauty of the state?

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Naw. There’s some pretty stinky Virginia-born folks too. We have a pile of folks who were fine with segregation and massive resistance…. and they raised some offspring …

    2. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Well, Dominion will be burning gas for power for years to come, no matter how this works out. Your new anti-fossil fuel president is largely responsible for those spikes. Europe’s foolish dependence on (failing) offshore wind gets the rest of the blame. Good thing you and I are rich but those middle class folks are up schist creek.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        But isn’t it a fair question with regard to the market price of gas increasing and what effect that will have on demand and use?

        In other words – market forces can also cause increases in prices – and often/usually motivate consumer efforts to use less – which means providers of electricity might also see reduced demand?

        the net result of scarcity is reduced demand and use – no matter what causes the scarcity – market forces or government actions?

        agree? disagree?

        1. William O'Keefe Avatar
          William O’Keefe

          Gas prices are rising because of exports to Europe to compensate for power shortages caused by the rush to renewables and also here because of public policies and investors demanding higher returns.
          It is necessary to look long term and not focus on today’s situation. We have plenty of gas if our elected officials encouraged rather than discourage its use.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            It’s a comfortable fairy-tale for sure for Conservatives… as normal.

            in the real world…… it’s a big world with lot of countries and a lot of markets and the truth is harder to fudge.

          2. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            Do you have a point or are you just blowing smoke, as usual?

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            It’s real point. Ya’ll traffic in un-facts on these issues like you did in Texas this past winter where you claimed that reliance on wind caused their problem. Simply and demonstrably not true.

          4. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            Do you know what’s happening in the UK and Germany? As for Texas, get facts; not greenie talking points.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yes I do. And it’s not what Conservatives are claiming any more than what they said about Texas.

            It’s easy to Google the legitimate information about the UK.

            https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/19/uk-energy-market-crisis-what-caused-it-and-how-does-it-affect-my-bills

            https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/27/uk-fuel-crisis-cause-brexit-covid/

            https://theconversation.com/no-barnaby-the-uk-energy-crisis-has-nothing-to-do-with-its-net-zero-target-and-to-suggest-otherwise-is-outrageous-168869

            Many more. Reference multiple sources to get some common truths and stay away from right wing echo chamber and climate denier sites.

          6. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            We’e talking about power generation; not fuel for cars, Look into Europs’s shut in gas production and the lack of wind in both Germany and UK.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I am… like I said…multiple sources that are legitimate … what’s the common thread they agree on?

            I don’t rely on single sources and especially partisan or climate denier sources.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            really?

            ” Why are natural gas prices rising?
            Natural gas prices have been surging in Europe as demand increases globally. While this is happening with most commodities, it’s been a larger problem with natural gas.

            It’s due to a global economic rebound as countries lift COVID-19 restrictions and fully reopen their economies. Markets are now competing as demand rises after the shock of the pandemic.”

            this is about renewables? I don’t think so.

            If I go through the other links, pretty sure going to be similar info, no?

            ” Why is this happening?

            But why is this happening? Europe gets its energy from various sources, with natural gas accounting for around 20% of that supply. Individual countries are more reliant on it than others; Germany, for example, uses it to heat around half of households.

            The gas squeeze has largely been prompted by the weather. The last European winter was unusually cold, depleting stocks of stored natural gas. Normally this would be replenished during the spring and summer in preparation for the next winter, but one of the coldest Aprils in two decades further hit stock.

            Then there is the Russian question. Russia’s gas exporting monopoly Gazprom, which provides around a third of all Europe’s natural gas, has this year steadfastly refused to increase supply in “spot markets,” where natural gas is bought as the need arises, often to fill a short-term need — as opposed to longer-term contracts planned well in advance.

            The reasons are a source of intrigue and debate. Russia has its own increased storage needs to meet, but some commentators have speculated that Russia has held back supplies to put pressure on the European Union to fully embrace the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.”

            doesn’t sound like the typical Conservative fairy tales to me.

          9. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            I don’t disagree with much of what you say but you don’t understand energy economics and demand elasticity. The impact of reduced wind power and natural gas shortages have had a big price impact. Would all of this be happening if Europe wasn’t rushing to wind and solar and turning away from gas and coal?

          10. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            If you can show that they actually reduced their use of gas and coal AND shut plants when wind/solar came onilne – then perhaps yes.

            But what I suspect is that they ADDED wind/solar to supplant the use of gas/coal , not actually shut plants so they could not subsequently use gas/coal/

            They maintained the ability to USE gas/coal if wind/solar fell short but what happened is that gas itself because more scarce and more expensive.

            Which is going on – around the world including in the US because of stronger demand for gas.

            We’ve seen this before in the energy world – long before wind/solar came online.

            wind/solar have been incorporated into the fuel mix but they have not shut down the ability to burn nat gas – it’s the supply of nat gas that has shortened – as well as wind, apparently.

          11. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yep. reduced use of coal as well as closing some nukes and more reliance on natural gas. They want to sue wind/solar when available, but their fall-back is the gas.

            Same problem in other countries and California.

            Make your specific point.

          12. William O'Keefe Avatar
            William O’Keefe

            It’s about reliability and cost.

          13. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
            energyNOW_Fan

            Larry- Virginia uses more electricity per capita (than CA/NY) in part because those states send more natural gas directly to the homes, whereas Virginia uses more electric heat pumps. Another factor is big cities like NYC do not use as much energy as suburbia. If you want to compare Va. to NY, take NYC out of the data and take account of all the natural gas being burned in the homes there.

            If we normalize the state data for differences in climate/etc. I am not sure your basic premise is true: that Virginia homeowners are energy hogs and thus deserve high electric costs to teach us a lesson and force conservation.

          14. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I don’t know that that is my premise but my premise IS that in general, the higher the cost of electricity (for any reason, market or regulation), people will take steps to conserve it and use less of it – like they would for many commodities from gasoline to propane to natural gas to electricity.

            Further, if you increase the price of electricity but then you take that money and offer it back as a credit to install more energy efficient equipment – you would reduce demand , no?

          15. Merchantseamen Avatar
            Merchantseamen

            Here it comes “climate denier”. He tried but could not pull it off.

          16. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            ???

  4. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “REC sellers may prove the biggest beneficiaries of McAuliffe’s idea.”

    Yes indeed and this is a great thing for anyone who is not a fan of Dominion Energy overlords and supports distributed generation. SRECs make residential solar installations immediately financially viable… now. As they increase in value, the calculus only gets better. Money (in the form of 3rd party agreements and home equity loans) will become readily available to homeowners to finance solar installations. I have heard that there is currently a company offering to buy SRECs on contract for like 20 years at $37 per mWh – before there is even a Virginia market established. What does that tell you about the future? It is certainly not in DE’s interest to have to pay for SRECs rather than retire their own RECs from generation built on the backs of their customers. Further, net metered solar generating DE customers are largely protected from the impact of DE-built renewable generation as they are funded by “per kWh” surcharges – fewer non-solar generating customers means a smaller base to spread these fees across building even more incentive to install residential solar. Even without a shortened timeframe, there will be the effect of better financials for residential solar as DE increases it’s per kWh surcharges but a shorter timeline means higher SRECs and, in turn, more residential solar units, faster, which is a great thing for everybody (except DE).

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      but, but… you’re SCREWING with “markets” and existing players and competitors who have been politically rewarded!

    2. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      A market I need to understand better, my trollish friend….

        1. tmtfairfax Avatar
          tmtfairfax

          How much are people willing to pay out of their pockets for each of these results? Free continues to sell well.

          Fairfax County did a poll that essentially asked what people were will to pay, do or give up to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The results were “not much.”

          How much more per gallon of gas are you willing to pay? How much higher monthly natural gas bill are you willing to pay? How much higher electric bill are you willing to pay? How much higher monthly grocery bill are you willing to pay? How much higher real estate taxes are you willing to pay? How much higher sales taxes are you willing to pay? Would you accept a pay cut if your employer used the savings to reduce its carbon footprint?

          Those are the questions that need to be asked.

          1. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
            energyNOW_Fan

            TMT do you have a link to the Fairfax Co. poll findings?

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        You too can be a producer and not just a consumer.

    3. tmtfairfax Avatar
      tmtfairfax

      “fewer non-solar generating customers means a smaller base to spread these fees across building even more incentive to install residential solar.”

      There are numerous problems with this. One, the Plan limits the number of residential solar installations that Dominion has to accept. Two, people who plan to move in the reasonable future won’t have the payback period for solar. As such, they aren’t likely to install solar, even assuming Dominion’s plan allows it.

      Three, rental housing. What is the incentive for a landlord to install solar? Most small landlords cannot deduct rental losses against ordinary income. And the anti-landlord legislation and agency decrees make the incentives even less.

      Once again, fixing climate change is more about enriching rent seekers and less about reducing greenhouse emissions.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        “One, the Plan limits the number of residential solar installations that Dominion has to accept.”

        No, that is for direct purchase (i.e., the generator sells solar energy to DE straight up) not net metering. Net metering is unlimited and DE will have real problems if they arbitrarily cut off installing net meters at some point in the future.

        “Two, people who plan to move in the reasonable future won’t have the payback period for solar. As such, they aren’t likely to install solar, even assuming Dominion’s plan allows it.”

        Solar arrays increase the property value for exactly the reasons outlined above. Owner will recoup costs on sales and new owner inherits the electricity savings and future SRECs.

        “Three, rental housing. What is the incentive for a landlord to install solar?”

        Somebody pays for utilities so landlords install solar either capturing utility savings and upping their rent or passing it on to renters and increasing demand on that unit. Plus they get to capture the income from SRECs.

        “Most small landlords cannot deduct rental losses against ordinary income.”

        Where are the “rental losses”?

        The real problem comes with properties without south exposures. They tend to get screwed.

        1. tmtfairfax Avatar
          tmtfairfax

          We will be selling our house in McLean within the next 12 months. If we were to install solar, would you enter into a contract that would guarantee we’d recover the costs for solar dollar for dollar? If someone steps up with a secured offer, we might look into it.

          But on the whole, a homeowner would want the payoff from solar to be greater than the payoff for other investments (e.g., a remodeled kitchen or bathroom, or, perhaps, new energy-efficient windows). The homeowner would also want the payoff to be quick – a short break-even point.

          As far as landlords are concerned, the anti-landowner policies of the government(s) create a strong disincentive for added investment in residential rental properties. Moreover, a landlord would compare the returns on alternative investments, including those unrelated to the property(ies). Would the solar pay a greater return and sooner?

          Good catch on the southern exposure issue. I forgot that one.

          Rental losses. Most small landlords lose money, when depreciation expenses are considered, especially in the early years of property ownership. Unless one is a real estate professional, the Tax Code prohibits any deduction of these real estate losses against salary and even other non-real estate investments.

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Just like with any investment, if your window is short, stick with cash.

            Most definitely the cheapest energy is the energy you don’t use. Replacement windows and insulation are low hanging fruit that any homeowner should pursue first. They are fast payoff as well – spend your money there first. Appliance upgrades are another good place to go. After that you start looking at things like ground-coupled heat pumps and solar water heaters but PV arrays are pretty much in line with them financially. The break even point is pretty easy to calculate but ten years is what I’ve been told is normal. While break even is important, it is better to look at it from a home equity loan kind of approach. If you can save more per year than the loan is costing you, then it is a good use of the debt incurred. It looks like with DE charging about $0.10/kWh now, that systems are pretty close to break even. The SRECs put it over the top or should at about $35/mWh. With mine, I project about a 4% ROI annually at that point which should match a home equity loan rate – anything above that is gravy (and it that is assuming current DE rates for like 25 years or more).

          2. tmtfairfax Avatar
            tmtfairfax

            Your answer is too generalized. For people planning to live in their homes for say 15-20 years, longer term investments are more likely. But what about older people (65 plus) who don’t expect to live in their homes more than a few more years (let’s say 5)? What about younger people who plan to move from their starter home in say 5 years? What about people who simply don’t have the cash to make the investment in energy saving products?

            In our old home, we did buy energy-efficient window, but stayed in the home for 12 plus years.

            I’d be more impressed with the wealthy enviros if they sold their mega-estates and lived in an old-fashioned expensive house and put most of their holdings into interest-free loans to homeowners and small businesses for energy saving products.

            I still don’t see the case for a landlord to invest in solar. With all the push for rent control in D-controlled jurisdictions, why assume you’d get back your investment with a good return?

          3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            In a five year window, you should be able to easily recoup your investment just in the equity it would add to your home – with that window, the investment risk would be fairly low plus you would have your electricity savings and SREC income.

            Btw, being able to avoid inflation of energy costs in retirement was a big sell for me (not that I am 65 yet).

            If I was in a starter home and was young, I might not do it especially since young families are less likely to have equity in their home nor the cash saved up. But as the return continues to improve for residential solar arrays, money will come forward and funding will be more readily available. It may get to the point that financing companies provide the guarantees you seek or just do the deal for something like $0.10 a kWh produced and the SRECs leaving the home owner with increased equity free and clear.

        2. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          If the Republicans gain control, all bets are off.

          Just look at Oklahoma.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Arkansas… or is it Kansas? 😉 or is that something else?

  5. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Uh oh. Solar power has it’s first catastrophe! Just heard on the news the was a major sunshine spill off of Huntington Beach, CA.

  6. […] backed its failed natural gas pipeline project, and now has pledged to deeply enrich the company by accelerating the transition to unreliable renewable generation […]

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