Greedy Cities and Speeding Ticket Chicanery

by Kerry Dougherty 

Hire more traffic cops. At the very least hire Virginia companies to fleece Virginia drivers.

That’s the advice I have for Chesapeake and Suffolk, where instead of sending cops with radar guns out to catch speeders, they’ve hired out-of-state vendors with cameras.

Worse, according to attorney and former Del. Tim Anderson, who’s filed suit to stop the practice, the cities allow the vendors – did I mention they were out-of-state? – to impersonate cities when collecting fines.

Anderson says the cameras are cropping up all over the commonwealth. He’s handling two local cases pro bono and is seeking reimbursement for all drivers who were ticketed illegally by the vendors pretending to be city officials. If these cases are successful – and it seems clear the cities are violating the state law – he plans to sue in other jurisdictions to halt the process.

A close look at the notices show that the fines in Chesapeake are to be sent to an address in Pennsylvania, and Suffolk’s citations go to Maryland.

Looks official, no? Almost as if it came from the Chesapeake Police Department.

The Virginian-Pilot reported that so far Chesapeake – er, its vendor – has issued 150,788 citations and gobbled up $9.3 million in these phony fines. Suffolk has issued 167,883 and hoovered up $11.72 million. Norfolk has cameras in place in a test phase and Hampton may be next. Portsmouth also has the cameras.

No wonder the cameras are catching on. These things are bigger money makers than casinos!

“Photo speed monitoring” became legal in 2020 during the Northam regime on a mostly party-line vote, with Democrats in support and Republicans in opposition. The law allows a maximum fine of $100 to be assessed.

Apparently, the GOP was able to peer into the future and see that the program would be abused. The law was intended to cut down on speeding, not to be a huge cash cow for localities.

Anderson says local cities are not following the law.

“The notices are supposed to be issued exactly as if law enforcement had issued them,” Anderson told me. “But there is no court date. If someone wants to contest the $100 fine they have to write a letter and contest it. Most people don’t want to take a day off work to sit in court when they can’t get points on their license for these notices.”

The law also says each violation has to be reviewed by law enforcement before it’s sent. Anderson says there is no way that is happening, given the huge volume of notices.

“I’m not saying speeding isn’t wrong, it is,” he added. “But just because someone broke the law doesn’t mean the city gets to break the law.”

“The government is required to obey the law.”

Look, speeding in school or work zones is dangerous and needs to stop. But the answer isn’t out-of-state cash-collecting robots.

It’s traffic cops.

Hire them and can the cameras.

Republished with permission from Kerry: Unemployed and Unedited.


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Comments

146 responses to “Greedy Cities and Speeding Ticket Chicanery”

  1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    You can beat the camera ticket in court. It is easy. Can the camera prove the license plate owner was in the car behind the wheel?

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Uh huh.

  2. It’s a good thing motorcycles have only one tiny little license plate on their back end…

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      15 megapixel.

      1. They still miss it about, I would guess, 80% of the time.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Ah! A gambler!

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Well, he did suggest he drives a motorcycle…

          2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Well, he did suggest he drives a motorcycle…

  3. John Harvie Avatar
    John Harvie

    This is going to be unpopular, but you are all “bitching up the wrong tree”.

    How about just obey the speed limit? What a concept?

    1. walter smith Avatar
      walter smith

      Yeah. How about not being surveilled? It is only about money. There is no noble cause to it. Just have a police car patrol/park on heavily used roads and people slow down. A far less intrusive way to ‘encourage” safety. As opposed to the dishonest money grab.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Wouldn’t you rather those cops be arresting rapists and murderers?

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          well sure… law and order and all that stuff you know… don’t be harassing ordinary law abiding citizens who are in a hurry…. 😉

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            … through a school zone. WTH, they’ll just be killed in a school shooting anyway.

            “If you can dodge a bullet, you can dodge a car.”

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I’m sure….

        2. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          Just Democrats, but I repeat myself…

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Always.

          2. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Have to with slow learners. I’d like to move on, but…

        3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          Exactly! Armed law enforcement has no business issuing traffic citations. That practice has already cost too many lives.

      2. John Harvie Avatar
        John Harvie

        What part is dishonest?

        1. Dishonest in that the government says it is about safety, but it is actually about collecting money.

        2. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          The claim that they do it for safety. They do it for $$$$. And statistics (SCIENCE!) show that as more people speed up to get through without getting pictured, causing an increase in crashes at those busy intersections. And it’s surveillance…

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Actually, surveillance is where a cop uses a traffic stop to ask you things like “where are you going?” and to look for “probable cause” to search your vehicle. A photo of your license plate is way less intrusive.

          2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Actually, surveillance is where a cop uses a traffic stop to ask you things like “where are you going?” and to look for “probable cause” to search your vehicle. A photo of your license plate is way less intrusive.

            Also, the effects of speed cameras on driving behavior has been studied for more than a decade at this point. Every study I have found concludes that drivers slow down as a result. What study did you find that concluded differently?

          3. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            There are lots of studies. Maybe you use the instrument of the State as your search engine?
            Here is 1 – https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/
            I asked DDG and got lots of studies. It’s surveillance and a money grab, period.

          4. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Ummm… first of all that was a red light study and I (and the article) was discussing speed cameras. Nonetheless, you state that people speed up because of red light cameras and I asked for some evidence of this (everything I have read states they slow down or stop). You just cited an article in response which stated:

            “Evidence clearly shows that camera programs are effective at decreasing the number of vehicles running red lights. In one study in Virginia, red light cameras reduced the number of total drivers running red lights by 67 percent”

            In no place in the article does it conclude that drivers are speeding up because of red light cameras. In fact, it suggests that there may be an increase in rear end accidents because drivers are slowing or stopping when the light is turning red. Imagine that…

            And only in the upside down Conservative world is a license plate photo considered surveillance while a traffic stop by an armed law enforcement officer is not. Silly that…

          5. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            It is surveillance, constant. At a traffic stop, the officer presumably has noticed a potential violation. That’s not surveillance, that’s human observation.
            There are tons of studies. Here is one from Virginia – https://ww2.motorists.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/2007Virginia.pdf
            The reality is it is done for money. And fleecing the honest citizens. While pretending to do it for safety. We are already too much like China with our benevolent govt spying on us, checking our spending, etc. We need less constant surveillance. And it is still for the money! Why do you love Big Brother so? Have you had your 2 minutes of hate yet?

          6. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “It is surveillance, constant.”

            Nope, the picture is only taken if you are speeding. The “surveillance” is the equivalent of a state trooper setting up a radar station and monitoring speed until they identify a speeder… it is the very same thing, just with no human element…. which is often abused… the cameras are less invasive.

          7. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            As usual…wrong, but you enjoy your police state. The camera is 24 hours. And the human element is not often abused. It is sometimes abused because humans are fallible. And humans can control the use of the cameras and abuse them, too. At 11 at night and you go through an empty intersection at 42 but the camera is set for 5 miles over the 35mph. Just for the money. And the control. And the surveillance. I’m not good with it. But I don’t love Big Brother like you do.

          8. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “As usual…wrong, but you enjoy your police state.”

            Do you know what is actually central to a “police state”… police… they don’t call them “camera states”, y’know. The irony of someone warning us about a police state but saying they prefer police is just too much…

          9. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I thought Walter was a “Law & Order” guy but I’m seeing now that it’s not so!

          10. Lefty665 Avatar

            You are right, it is the equivalent of a state trooper setting up a radar and monitoring every vehicle’s speed.

            One of the drivers of our revolution was the British putting troops on the streets to search everyone to find some of the patriots they were after.

            It is search and seizure without probable cause and prohibited by the 4th amendment.

          11. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Instead now we just invite 3rd parties to collect data on us, in this instance using speed cameras. The surveillance state is a very real thing.

          12. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Apparently in Walters book, if a COP or COP-operated technology or even a store security camera or toll gantry is “looking”, they are “surveilling”.

          13. John Harvie Avatar
            John Harvie

            Citation, please.

          14. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            This is the page of results I got on DuckDuckGo – lots of evidence. You surely aren’t so naive as to exclude the possibility it is about money, are you?
            https://duckduckgo.com/?q=traffic+cameras+increasing+intersection+accidents&atb=v361-1&ia=web

          15. John Harvie Avatar
            John Harvie

            Chicago says otherwise. Acccidents drasticaly redced.

            What’s so difficult about obeying the law???

          16. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Nothing. But humans are fallible. And cameras are not human. Everybody wants justice when it is someone else, but mercy when it is oneself. I am against the surveillance state. And again, it is only about money.

          17. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Most all places of business now have cameras – not only for thievery but security and protection against those who need to be watched for their illegal behaviors towards others.

            It’s the same folks that also drive irresponsibly and endanger others unfettered.

            We have to have them on school buses – not only for the fools who pass them when stopped but some of the kids themselves, being brought up, no doubt by parents who also exhibit such behaviors.

            If we took every penny from the traffic cameras and plowed back into road safety improvements and/or funds for those injured by irresponsible drivers, etc… the same opponents would very likely STILL be opposed.

            The truth is, some folks just need to be watched because they will not behave and without the cameras , they misbehave
            and cops are called, they’ll just lie their backsides off.

          18. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Now you’re against defunding the police? And in favor of IQ tests? Double racist!!
            A private business is different from the government. I would prefer that we get back to morality, with people regulating themselves.
            But liberal policies are definitely part of the breakdown of standards. Illegitimacy – we know one parent homes put the boys in particular where the one parent is the mother, which is most. We have liberals lowering academic standards and defunding and demeaning the police. We have the CommieLibs advocating killing babies. It’s obvious. But the Commie Libs would have to admit their false religion is false…

        3. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          leftist lawfare?

      3. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        well, okay. No fines but 3 strikes and you lose your insurance and license! Too many scofflaws these days!

        1. Other way around. No points, but must pay a fine.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            too many folks drive way too fast for conditions , not only accidents but pedestrian fatalities, these days and these traffic cameras show it clearly.

            Driving 9 miles over the limit in a school zone where you KNOW there are pedestrians?

        2. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          You know any working people Larry? Taking away the car kinda makes them unemployed. As does the insurance. Take away your dumb posting privileges and you can never post again!!!

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I know plenty but driving to endanger others takes away their right to work also!

            Free speech much Walter?

          2. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            People don’t drive to endanger, unless they are criminals. Who Democrats love.
            You still have free speech – my point – you couldn’t wait to take away licenses to drive for traffic violations, and I asked why not take away your posting privileges since the odds of you being wrong are at Ivory Snow levels.
            The photo tickets are a money grab. Period. And counterproductive. BUt lucrative so more money can be wasted and more honest citizens fleeced. That is all it is.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Oh they do Walter. We have accidents out the wazoo these days despite better cars and safer roads. People simply DO endanger other when they CHOOSE to drive too fast for the conditions.

            MY POINT is that the others who are victims of these id*ots also “lose” their ability to drive and work.

            re: “money grab” – what if the money collected was dedicated solely to transportation improvements and/or paying for the expenses of those who have suffered damages and injuries from these scofflaws?

    2. How about just obey the speed limit?

      Nope. No can do. Out on the open highway I simply cannot do it. And I honestly have made a concerted effort on several occasions over the years.

      I have concluded that most speed limits are simply too low – 35 mph speed limits in business zones and 25 on residential streets is justifiable and should be enforced. Fifty-five on a highway with a 75 mph design speed is not.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        “Fifty-five on a highway with a 75 mph design speed is not.”

        It seems to me that most highways designed for 75 these days have a 65 speed limit (resulting in an effective 75 speed limit due to enforcement thresholds). Heck, I-70 west of Baltimore is 70 (effectively 80 – on the threshold of reckless driving, btw). There are some exceptions (for, instance I-95 near Baltimore where the limit drops to 55 unless you pay for the express lanes – another issue entirely). I suppose these reductions are mainly due to congestion hazard patterns and not road design.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I have no problem going 80+ on a truly open highway and have and do but when in proximity with other vehicles even 55 or 45 can be too fast IMO.

        driving too fast for conditions – for too many folks – accidents are up despite more modern technology … safer cars and safer roads – people drive faster, and way to fast if with nearby vehicles…

        https://virginiamercury.com/2023/11/14/less-driving-but-more-deaths-spike-in-traffic-fatalities-puzzles-lawmakers/#:~:text=Traffic%20deaths%20were%20up%2018,reaching%20a%2030%2Dyear%20high.

        1. Did you miss the part of my comment where I wrote: 35 mph speed limits in business zones and 25 on residential streets is justifiable and should be enforced.?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            did you READ THIS:

            ” What is the VA code for too fast for conditions?
            § 46.2-861. Driving too fast for highway and traffic conditions. A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who exceeds a reasonable speed under the circumstances and traffic conditions existing at the time, regardless of any posted speed limit.” ?

            It’s not the speed per se , it’s the speed for the conditions encountered.

            35 mph, even 25 mph is too fast when there are pedestrians …..

          2. The only time a police officer writes a ticket for driving too fast for conditions is if there has been an accident.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            probably true but the accident is the result and we have plenty of such these days that can be attributed simply to “too fast for conditions” IMO. People drive too fast for conditions – it’s rampant.

          4. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I’d like to see someone getting charged with reckless driving for driving the speed limit and blowing out a tire on a pothole.

            Too fast for conditions…

          5. 35 mph, even 25 mph is too fast when there are pedestrians …..

            Says who?

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            say the folks who count the dead and injured. Too fast for conditions is common sense that
            too many have lost IMO. If you cannot stop without hitting the guy in front of you – is that too fast for conditions or what?

          7. If I can’t stop without hitting the guy in front of me it’s a following distance issue. It falls sunder “following too closely”, not driving too fast for conditions.

          8. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            too fast for conditions, clearly ,not only “following” but a variety of situations where you do run into something IMO.

          9. By the way, this thread started out discussing the use of speed cameras. You dragged “too fast for conditions” into the discussion so perhaps you’d like to tell the class how a camera can tell when someone is driving “too fast for conditions”?

      3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        “Fifty-five on a highway with a 75 mph design speed is not.”

        It seems to me that most highways designed for 75 these days have a 65 speed limit (resulting in an effective 75 speed limit due to enforcement thresholds). Heck, I-70 west of Baltimore is 70 (effectively 80 – on the threshold of reckless driving, btw). There are some exceptions (for, instance I-95 near Baltimore where the limit drops to 55 unless you pay for the express lanes – another issue entirely). I suppose these reductions are mainly due to congestion hazard patterns and not road design.

        1. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          Maryland does not have a reckless driving by speed law like Virginia. So going 81MPH in a 65 won’t get you a reckless driving ticket in Maryland.

          (Virginia did increase the reckless driving threshold from 80MPH to 85MPH several years after the speed limit was raised to 70MPH in some places. Apparently, it took several years for the Imperial Clown Show to realize that a reckless driving ticket for exceeding the speed limit by 11MPH might be considered ridiculous).

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            the vast majority of accidents are basically caused simply by driving too fast for conditions – regardless of the speed limit and Va Law does recognize that.

          2. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I heard that the vast majority of accidents are caused by red light running.

            I guess what they say depends on what automated enforcement system they’re trying to push, eh?

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You need to watch some of those dash cam videos… yes.. a fair number are at traffic lights but clearly most are going way too fast at the get go. Going through a green light at a busy intersection at speed – is dumb – IMO…. even if you are “right”, you have a messed up car, probably higher insurance rates… etc, lose, lose , lose. dumb!

          4. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I like to slow way down at green lights just in case the light turns yellow. Got a new rear bumper that way about 4 times now.

          5. Lefty665 Avatar

            Shoulda gotten a whole bunch more, and maybe some permanent injury for that stupid behavior. Few of us consider having a car in the body shop such a good time we want to do it often.

          6. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Not my fault the other drivers around here aren’t as safe as I am. I also like to drive in the left lane at 10-15MPH under the speed limit. My hero was some guy named Dr. John O Nestor. He got a Wikipedia article for his driving practices. Still waiting for my wikipedia article.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nestor

          7. Lefty665 Avatar

            You really are an ***, and a hazard to navigation. DMV should revoke your license to endanger the highway.

          8. Lefty665 Avatar

            You really are an *** and a hazard to navigation. The DMV should revoke your license to endanger the highway.

          9. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            They never will. Speed kills. Not slow drivers.

          10. Lefty665 Avatar

            No, what kills is speed differentials in traffic. You know, behavior like yours, slowing down for green lights and driving 15mph slower than traffic in the passing lane. Your license should be revoked. You are a danger to all other motorists.

          11. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            So if all the other drivers obeyed the speed limits and went no faster, there would be no problem.

            55, stay alive.

          12. Lefty665 Avatar

            No, you have declared you drive 10-15 mph slower than the speed limit and that you slow down for green lights. The speed differential with other traffic is still there, and that is what kills. Your behavior is the problem.

            Thank you for providing the description of your profound lack of judgement. It provides insight into your other opinions.

          13. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            I drive 10-15MPH slower than the speed limit to get these speeders to slow down. I slow down for green lights because people run the red light all the time.

            The technology is available to limit vehicles to the speed limit, it needs to be implemented NOW.

            It’s either that or outlaw personal vehicles entirely and force them to use safe, clean, efficient public transportation.

          14. Lefty665 Avatar

            Ha ha, keep up the nonsense. Your Indian name would be he who slows for green lights and squats to pee.

          15. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I slow down when approaching a light that has turned red. It’s amazing how many folks are continuing at high speed toward the light and then hitting their brakes hard. I get tailgated and passed when I do that.
            what sense does it make to NOT slow down when approaching red light?

          16. Lefty665 Avatar

            Ha ha, keep up the nonsense. Your Indian name would be he who slows for green lights and squats to pee.

          17. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Additionally, social media monitoring could be used to detect posts like yours and deny you the ability to start your vehicle for several hours. Wrongthink needs to be punished.

          18. Lefty665 Avatar

            You have asserted that you have caused at least 4 accidents at intersections by slowing down for green lights. How many accidents do you need to cause before you decide you have had enough fun?

            How many innocent motorists do you feel the need to involve in your attention getting behaviors?

            Have you talked to your therapist about this? If not it might help you gain insight into your actions.

          19. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Hook, line and sinker.

          20. Lefty665 Avatar

            Talk to your therapist, you will feel better.

          21. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            re: ” Nestor also achieved fame in the Washington, D.C. area in 1984 after The Washington Post published his letter describing his favored driving method: On highways Nestor would settle his vehicle in the far left lane and set the cruise control at the speed limit, at the time 55 mph. He would not move to the right for drivers behind him. “Why,” he asked, “should I inconvenience myself for someone who wants to speed?” [11] Nestor also believed he was performing a public service by forcing people to obey the nationwide 55 mile-per-hour speed limit.[12] Nestor’s letter enraged many motorists and led Paul J. Leonard to coin the term ‘Nestoring’ to describe the practice in another letter to the editor.[13]”

            did not know that, thanks!

          22. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Reagan should’ve given Nestor a Presidential Medal of Freedom for his selfless attempts to slow down traffic in NoVA, saving countless lives by his heroic actions.

          23. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            you think?

          24. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I’m not a fan of impeding others. I only pass in the left lane and stay right at other times and when I pass, I do it quickly, do not “sit” there. If I see someone coming up fast in the rear-view, I move over and let them through. If I get tailgated on a two-lane, I’ll often pull over and let them around. If there is a line in the left lane – I’m pulling right until the “clot” clears. I try not to get “trapped” in a “train” in the left lane because I know folks will start passing on the right.
            But some folks take it too far and just flat out endanger others with their antics. I’m using dash cams now and won’t hesitate to turn it over to police if someone is being a total jerk and causes an accident.

          25. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I got tailgaters but manage to slow down and keep them back by not suddenly slowing down.

          26. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Just hitting the brake pedal every few seconds, just enough to light up the brake lights (but not enough to actually slow down) usually gets ’em to back off. The best part is they won’t know you’re screwing with them because this is about how half the drivers in NoVA roll.

          27. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I do that rarely when I’m really annoyed – called brake checking, right?

          28. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            It’s not technically brake checking if you aren’t actually slowing down. Many drivers in NoVA randomly light up the brakes without slowing down for no apparent reason.

          29. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            take a look at this dash cam:

            https://youtu.be/U_r0hBuwyZI?si=jopSMCOX9MaruPL0

      4. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        Hey 55mph is a leftover from the 70’s embargo that was spun to say it was for safety as well.

        If we actually traversed at design speed, the various DOT’s might have to do their jobs.

      5. John Harvie Avatar
        John Harvie

        Ever hear of cruise control?

        1. It’s not a matter of not being able to control the throttle, it’s a matter of not being able to stand the boredom.

  4. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    There is a whole lot of whining about selective enforcement of these rules on racial grounds. I’d really love to see the statistics on the tickets issued by automated photo systems, whether they show the same demographic patterns as tickets issued by 1) sworn law officers or 2) these hired mercenaries motivated entirely by profit. A nice dissertation topic there for somebody…Aww, the governments would refuse to share the data…

    Richmond City has farmed out its parking enforcement to highly motivated contractors. There is now only one business in the city I still frequent, and that is one reason why.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      I agree but… it may also matter what the demographics are – where the cameras are located, no?

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        Again, it would make one helluva interesting query, wouldn’t it? On the one hand, you place them where the worst driving is evidenced, but on the other hand, you place them where people can afford to pay! I hope Anderson sees these comments and gets inspired. 🙂

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I don’t disagree but again, we’d need to know what the demographics of the overall traffic flow is – also.

          The racial thing with the police is not that much related to speeding as much as it is other factors that are involved in deciding to make a stop – like “improper equipment” which then goes into “saw something in the car”, etc, etc.

          And again, the location of where the enforcement is taking place does also matter.

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      In NN, Va., the City okayed PhotoRed at two of the worst intersections for accidents. It’s worse than Karen can imagine. They aren’t just some greedy corporations. They’re Australian greedy corporations.

      The City doesn’t collect a dime until a certain number of citations are issued. The hope by the City was that they WOULDN’T collect any money; that the number of tickets would eventually drop below the threshold. (This is where you get cynical)

      The physics involved are such that any car not exceeding the posted speed limit by more than 10 MPH can comfortably stop. Light timing is set for a tractor-trailer deceleration rates WITH A GRACE PERIOD of 0.5 seconds. The vehicle has to enter the intersection 1/2 second after the light turns red.

      All incidents are reviewed on video by a city police officer, albeit possibly retired.

    3. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      In NN, Va., the City okayed PhotoRed at two of the worst intersections for accidents. It’s worse than Karen can imagine. They aren’t just some greedy corporations. They’re Australian greedy corporations.

      The City doesn’t collect a dime until a certain number of citations are issued. The hope by the City was that they WOULDN’T collect any money; that the number of tickets would eventually drop below the threshold. (This is where you get cynical)

      The physics involved are such that any car not exceeding the posted speed limit by more than 10 MPH can comfortably stop. Light timing is set for a tractor-trailer deceleration rates WITH A GRACE PERIOD of 0.5 seconds. The vehicle has to enter the intersection 1/2 second after the light turns red.

      All incidents are reviewed on video by a city police officer, albeit possibly retired.

    4. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      In NN, Va., the City okayed PhotoRed at two of the worst intersections for accidents. It’s worse than Karen can imagine. They aren’t just some greedy corporations. They’re Australian greedy corporations.

      The City doesn’t collect a dime until a certain number of citations are issued. The hope by the City was that they WOULDN’T collect any money; that the number of tickets would eventually drop below the threshold. (This is where you get cynical)

      The physics involved are such that any car not exceeding the posted speed limit by more than 10 MPH can comfortably stop. Light timing is set for a tractor-trailer deceleration rates WITH A GRACE PERIOD of 0.5 seconds. The vehicle has to enter the intersection 1/2 second after the light turns red.

      All incidents are reviewed on video by a city police officer, albeit possibly retired.

      1. how_it_works Avatar
        how_it_works

        Is that tractor-trailer deceleration rates with all 18 wheels locked up?

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Loaded. The numbers are the federal highway numbers, and yes, either way, you can stop your car a whole helluva lot faster. (Which BTW is why I don’t ride in front of ‘em. Spend as little time as possible next to them while passing, and don’t waste time leaving them behind.)

          1. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Well, I can configure a traffic signal to increase red-light violations even if the yellow light time is “textbook” correct.

            Here’s how I’d do it. I’d configure the main line (which gets most of the traffic and for which the signal rests in green) to have a very short minimum green. For example, 10 seconds on a mainline with a 55MPH speed limit.

            I’d also make sure that any advance detection which would otherwise keep the light green for oncoming traffic is disabled or not even installed. (Typically on a 55MPH approach you will have loop detectors several hundred feet from the stop line, which extend the green for traffic that is approaching the light–this is done to reduce the chances that drivers will have to slam on their brakes for a yellow, and is certainly undesirable when a red-light camera has been installed).

            That way, a driver approaching the signal who sees it turn yellow and then red and then green again will be quite surprised when it’s only green for 10 seconds, and may run the red because they didn’t expect it to be green for such a short time.

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            I suspect that a prosecutor would charge manslaughter.

            The 1st attempt at photo-red in Virginia was in NoVa somewhere and they got caught with overly short yellow lights. That’s the reason it took nearly 20 years for the next attempt. The GA forced them to bend over backwards to constantly check the lights and calibrate.

            FWIW, I was totally against the system until an email exchange with the City traffic engineer. He wasn’t completely sure where all the timing parameters came from (just kept saying “Feds”), but in the course of our exchange, we derived and solved a lot of the equations that led to the set up. Quadratics, acceleration stuff.

            I’m a complete convert. Nobody can get a ticket if they’re even casually paying attention, and doing the speed limit (+5 or so).

            The problem with your 10-second green is the “all red” requirement. The best way is set the light for a real long yellow for a month. Then change to the proper time. You’ll rack up a clear ton of tickets. Repeat.

          3. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            I suspect that a prosecutor would charge manslaughter.

            The 1st attempt at photo-red in Virginia was in NoVa somewhere and they got caught with overly short yellow lights. That’s the reason it took nearly 20 years for the next attempt. The GA forced them to bend over backwards to constantly check the lights and calibrate.

            FWIW, I was totally against the system until an email exchange with the City traffic engineer. He wasn’t completely sure where all the timing parameters came from (just kept saying “Feds”), but in the course of our exchange, we derived and solved a lot of the equations that led to the set up. Quadratics, acceleration stuff.

            I’m a complete convert. Nobody can get a ticket if they’re even casually paying attention, and doing the speed limit (+5 or so).

            The problem with your 10-second green is the “all red” requirement. The best way is set the light for a real long yellow for a month. Then change to the proper time. You’ll rack up a clear ton of tickets. Repeat.

          4. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            The all-red requirement changes nothing. It’s a completely separate setting (typically, 2 seconds). It still exists in the controller even if you set the minimum green to an absurdly low 10 seconds on a 55MPH highway. (A 10-second minimum green might be OK for a shopping center exit).

          5. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            There is a traffic signal near my house (well, one of the closest ones to my house, it’s about 5 miles away) and it has this small problem where it doesn’t stay green long enough for more than 10 cars in two lanes to get through it (5 cars each lane). If you’re the 6th car in a lane, it’ll sometimes turn yellow before you’ve reached the stop line.

            VDOT has been unable or unwilling to fix the problem since I reported it to them over 3 years ago. I spoke with someone at VDOT who said it “shouldn’t be doing that” and “it should be giving enough green time”. Oh, it gives plenty of green time, if there’s enough traffic going the other way. If there isn’t, as soon as the “A” side of the intersection “gaps out” it’ll change to yellow even if the “B” side still has traffic queued up to go through..

            Interestingly enough, this is one of the intersections where the county wants to put a red light camera.

            This is despite the accident problem at that signal apparently being caused by drivers making a U-turn to get to the Sheetz, when they could just make a normal left turn and access the Sheetz from the rear.

            Instead of doing the sensible thing and prohibiting U-turns, VDOT decided to reprogram the signal so now you have to wait for a green arrow to make a left turn. This has resulted in late-afternoon backups sometimes requiring 3 cycles of the light to make a left turn.

            This despite the fact that oncoming traffic during most of the day and night is so light that anyone not stoned or drunk could safely make a left turn.

          6. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Well, if’n you want to take on VDOT I suggest you start with the NTSB guidelines on traffic lights. As the city engineer told me, “you don’t ignore the guidelines.” Everything you could imagine about an intersection and traffic lights is covered in them. They take on everything, grades, lanes, speed limits, # of vehicles, etc., etc.

            If the intersection violates the guidelines, then you’ve got a damned good start.

          7. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            The problem is that a lot of traffic signal configuration / operation is subject to “engineering judgment”.

            Where, for example, is the document that states what the maximum acceptable time to repair broken left turn lane vehicle detector is?

            As far as I’ve ever seen or heard of, there isn’t one. I had to turn left through a red light every day for almost a month because that’s how long VDOT took to fix the problem of it not detecting any vehicles. (Yes, I called them at least 4 or 5 times about the problem).

            Worth noting that some other agencies in other states consider this a problem to be fixed in 24 hours or less.

            Why would VDOT ever impose such rigorous standards upon themselves. It’s not in their culture.

          8. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Well, up Afton Mountain way on the I-64 there is a memorial to VDOT workers, who no doubt were mostly killed by careless drivers. Maybe they’re just trying to get even?

          9. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            Sounds like the sort of petty behavior one could expect from that outfit.

            How does not fixing a traffic signal for a month “get even” with the careless drivers they think killed VDOT workers?

            If the time to repair this traffic signal is any indication, VDOT workers themselves are careless.

    5. Lefty665 Avatar

      Jeez, for years Richmond was very aggressive on parking tickets. It was a significant cost of driving or even parking in front of my house long ago when I lived in the city. It’s hard to imagine it’s gotten worse, but it sounds like it has.

    6. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      You think the camera logs the race of the person driving the car…?

      But this might be what you are looking for:

      https://transalt.org/blog/no-correlation-between-race-poverty-level-and-speed-safety-camera-tickets

  5. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    I was/am under the impression that the cameras are located at schools and construction zones only:

    (excerpts):

    ” Following a 30-day grace period, the Richmond Police Department is launching its safety camera program next week, which will see speeding drivers hit with $50 or $100 tickets near two Richmond schools.

    The announcement came Thursday morning from Lt. Harold Giles, who said these speed camera monitors are a crucial part of the city’s plan to limit accidents and help make up for a lack of police staff.

    They will be active only between peak school zone hours when the school zone lights are blinking.

    Since launching the pilot program in mid-February, the four cameras have recorded a total of 4,200 speeders.”

    https://richmond.com/news/local/crime/richmond-speed-cameras-tickets-schools/article_94f2aeca-e227-11ee-ba28-c3218ff36b8f.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share

    4000 tickets in what, a couple of months – in school zones? WTH? BURN THEIR BUTTS!

    I’m all for it. People are out of control on speeding these days and part of it is that they know it’s hard for police to effectively enforce it.

    I’d like to them everywhere there are accidents occurring on a higher than normal basis.

    And I’m fine with it being a concessionaire hired by the city – they can put that in fine print on the ticket if it bothers Kerry and company.

  6. Matt Adams Avatar
    Matt Adams

    Traffic and Speed Cameras are about one thing and one thing only. It’s the revenue they generate, they are a fine and only that as the people reviewing the footage aren’t Law Enforcement. Given the way that Del. Anderson present it’s, I’m sure they are only receiving a percentage while the 3rd party is making the gravy train.

    It has become Standard Practice in the state, see Transurban I95 Express and IBW and TRIP II The Greenway.

    1. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      “It has become Standard Practice in the state, see Transurban I95 Express and IBW and TRIP II The Greenway.”

      Bingo!

    2. how_it_works Avatar
      how_it_works

      I find it funny that the City of Manassas is installing as many red light cameras as they can, ostensibly for “safety”…

      …yet they STILL have several intersections in the city that have a left turn yellow trap, and I sent an email to the Traffic Signals Supervisor there, one Glenn Martin, about the problem well over 10 years ago.

      I guess fixing those traffic signals for “safety” isn’t quite as “profitable”….

      edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_trap

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        Much like speed traps, they keep them in place for revenues it’s not about safety. They are quick to do deep studies for items that would impact their budget by pulling from it (grad crossing upgrades), not so quick to study items that would decrease it by reducing its revenue.

  7. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    10+ in a school zone!

    A night or two in the Gray Bar Hotel would be just.

  8. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Stop speeding. As much as Karen is on a tear, these speed cameras and photo reds are designed to reduce speeding and are legal. Pay the bill and you don’t collect insurance points. Don’t pay and a REAL citation requiring the full fine or an appearance in court is the next step.

    Get used to it.

  9. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Remind me the next time a murderer is caught on WalMart security cameras plying his trade in the parking lot that it’s wrong to charge him based on video evidence.

  10. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    The great thing about photo traffic enforcement is it saves lives on many levels. Reduces excessive speeds (come on, just keep it within 10 mpg over the limit), it stops the dangerous practice of two cars stopping on the shoulder, fewer cops are placed in harms way, and cameras can only shoot pictures.

    Win-win-win, all the way around.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Correct. What the complainers ignore is how many other people who have their own means of getting to work , their own cars damaged or totaled and/or hurt, injured, killed by these folks who drive recklessly over the limit and/or too fast for conditions.

      I’m all for reining them in and protecting the majority of other drivers from these heathens.

  11. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Too many folks just drive too dang fast – for conditions whether other vehicles or pedestrians these days.

    They don’t leave enough distance for the speed they are going and of course if you do, someone will cut in front of you and “fix” it!

    Cars are much, much better engineered and safer than ever before but the accident rate including pedestrian deaths has not reduced, in fact, is increasing.

    Make a car or a road safer and guess what happens ? People will drive it faster and faster because they can but in doing so , completely lose reaction and stopping distance.

    Car insurance rates are skyrocketing now, even for people who have had no accidents!

  12. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    Somewhat related, see this incident in DC on Wednesday:

    https://www.timesnownews.com/world/us/us-news/chinatown-dc-man-on-roof-at-6th-and-h-throws-bricks-at-mpd-officers-in-washington-video-article-109573259

    A great example of police deescalating a situation that often would have led to a fatal shooting. This is how we want cops to behave all the time.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Meet your VP choices… part noem.

      “I hated that dog,” Noem recalls, calling Cricket, “less than worthless as a hunting dog,” “untrainable,” and “dangerous to anyone she came in contact with.”

      “At that moment […] I realized I had to put her down,” the governor recalls.

      Noem dragged Cricket to a gravel pit, and shot her dead in front of a startled construction crew. “It was not a pleasant job but it had to be done,” she recounts, “and after it was over, I realized another unpleasant job needed to be done.”

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        “Where is Cricket?” Even I could design that ad…

      2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        “Where is Cricket?” Even I could design that ad…

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Well, Mitt’s finally been relieved of chief cruelty to an animal officer.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            So when Trump says “take em out back and…. “

      3. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Perfect for Trump’s VP!

  13. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Here’s what needs to be done:

    take this: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9af97a0384d99f8e39c1ba7400e1990aada44b3a2cf8700ace207841c3667abe.png

    put it in a small vehicle like a Yaris, autonomous, driving the speed limit – and let it “work”. Have it marked with a blinky light.

    Catch only the really dang fools..

    1. John Harvie Avatar
      John Harvie

      Saw a really clever thing some years ago in Waldorf, MD. Unmarked car on shoulder with jack leaning against a rear tire and trunk open. Upon getting closer I saw there was a radar gun on tripod in trunk.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I LIKE it!

        We have in Spotsylvania now, a Sheriff pickup truck. It looks like any other
        except it is marked on the sides but if behind you… you have to look hard. I see him a
        lot on the side with folks getting their citations. We also have some Sheriff motor-cycles and they too seem to be busy. These days , people need to get dash cams for their cars because the folks that drive crazy and cause accidents, naturally, will lie their butts off until they realize you got em on camera!

        1. John Harvie Avatar
          John Harvie

          We have that too and confiscated unmarked hot cars like Chargers and Challengers

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Then too, go the other way. Life size photos of a motorcycle cop standing next to his bike pointing a radar gun…

    2. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        The basics – a cop patrolling – is no longer really effective to keep a majority of scofflaws behaving and they know it. It’s the wild-wild west out there many times these days.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Larry, crime is down. Bad behavior? Different story.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            some crime is down, is it due to “good/better” policing? road behaviors are, at times, just
            out of control and in heavy traffic, the chance of getting caught by police is nil – and they
            know it and act accordingly. I now have a traffic cam in the vehicles and will not hesitate
            to make copies to police if it put a hitch in the giddy up of the miscreants.

  14. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    One more aspect…besides the surveillance and money-grabbing objections…this is where it is headed unless we start demanding freedom…
    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/cars-obey-speed-limits-automatically-134437613.html

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      “freedom” to do what they want to others…. without restraint… drunk drivers, for example
      who do need restraint…

      1. walter smith Avatar
        walter smith

        Obviously you did not read the article. Nothing about approving drunk drivers. Just you being reflexively wrong. It is a short step from the surveillance state to the state limiting how fast or how far you can drive.

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