Got $26,000 To Replace All Your Gas Appliances?

States in blue have seen localities restrict or ban natural gas in homes and businesses, and those in red have preempted the push by banning such bans. From S&P Global Intelligence story linked below.

by Steve Haner

Maybe not today or tomorrow, but soon the War on Fossil Fuels will be fought in the equipment room or garage of your house. A push to prohibit new natural gas connections and remove existing home gas services is inevitable if Virginia’s current leaders are serious about zero carbon within 20 to 30 years.

Refitting a home with natural gas appliances to all-electric, the dream of some utilities who need not be named, is likely to cost well over $20,000. That figure has been helpfully compiled in a state-by-state analysis by the Consumer Energy Alliance (CEA), with a fact sheet specifically on Virginia.

An energy ban could cost as much as $26,132 for a Richmond household to retrofit existing appliances. depending on the appliance models, home configuration, labor, and reliance on natural gas. These findings dovetail with previous CEA research that found that the cost to replace major gas appliances in homes nationwide would be more than $258 billion. Further, as the report shows, a tremendous amount of new transmission infrastructure will need to be built at significant cost to Virginians to meet the demands to “electrify everything.”

One third of Virginia’s homes use natural gas for heat. The largest part of the conversion expense would be replacing gas heat with electric, which CEA estimated would cost $20,000 (and with all the labor and if you need ductwork, it could).

Then the CEA review adds in the cost of an electric hot water heater and range, plus the cost to upgrade your electric service to at least 200 amps. That decorative gas log fireplace in the family room? Forget about that. Gas is used in some clothes dryers, and propane is also a popular fuel choice. In a zero-carbon- emissions world, they must go.

The advocates of these pie-in-the-sky energy transformation promises, either at the federal level or here in Richmond, never own up to the consumer costs. They shy away from discussing how much that Transportation and Climate Initiative will tax motor fuels, how much the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative is going to add to electric bills, and the massive capital expense behind the Virginia Clean Economy Act.

No Virginia locality has been proposing this, but elsewhere (California, Washington) it has been adopted by local governments. The issue is also active in three of the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative states in the Northeast. Virginia, now a RGGI state, cannot be far behind.

Nineteen U.S. states have passed a ban on these bans, prohibiting such local ordinances, according to an S&P Global article. The map used as illustration above shows them. A recent Wall Street Journal article discussed how California restaurant chefs are fighting to keep their gas stoves.

In Great Britain it is a national effort, with the government pushing to replace 600,000 gas and oil boilers per year by 2028, but anti-CO2 activists are pushing for 900,000, according to an article in The Telegraph cited by the website wattsupwiththat.com. There people are waking up to the billions of pounds it will cost.

Maybe you will wake up when you get the order to rip out the gas furnace and buy a heat pump. Or when your old water heater dies, and you are told you cannot use gas or propane anymore but must go electric. “Who says so?” you will yell, and you will learn the foundation was laid by the Virginia General Assembly in 2020 and 2021. (“…net-zero emission by 2045 in all sectors, including the electric power, transportation, industrial, agricultural, building, and infrastructure…”)

One candidate for Governor this year is promising to accelerate the transformation schedules already on the books. Guess which.

The CEA analysis also taps into Princeton University’s Net Zero America data on what this planned energy transformation will do to the transmission and distribution grids, also a cost which will come your way as consumers. The total national investment works out to $12,000 per household. Specific Virginia predictions from Princeton are on page 5 of the CEA report about Virginia.

If you doubt this will show up on your doorstep, remember that the Atlantic Coast Pipeline was crushed by Virginia opponents, a fairly minor capital upgrade proposed for existing pipelines in existing rights of way to serve Hampton Roads was killed, and the battle over the Mountain Valley Pipeline rages on. This is a war on fossil fuels, every single one you use in your daily life.

The future cost of the electricity that may soon be mandatory for your home appliances and personal car? That’s another story.


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121 responses to “Got $26,000 To Replace All Your Gas Appliances?”

  1. Baconator with extra cheese Avatar
    Baconator with extra cheese

    This is your next Equity issue folks.
    There will be promises of all new “free” appliances for anyone of the correct hue or financial status who votes for the Blue team.
    And I will bet it’ll be a fight for the upgraded appliances too. Anything less would be racist.
    I also ask where are all these appliances going to come from? Demand will most likely drive the prices through the roof. I tried to buy a new washer/ electric drier this spring and delivery was 2 months out.
    I see the writing on the wall and will look to invest in copper, Samsung, and the other manufacturers. Or just quit working and get my guaranteed income, free healthcare, free college, free electricity, free housing, food stamps, and soon free electric appliances.

    1. Communism has never worked except to turn we the people into slavish minions of the oligarchs.

  2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “…and with all the labor and if you need ductwork, it could…”

    Why would you need new ductwork to go from a furnace to a heat pump? Both are forced air systems.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      “Why would you need new ductwork to go from a furnace to a heat pump? Both are forced air systems.”

      The air handler for heat pumps is different then your furnace. At the very least they would have to build a new plenum. Then you have to realize that unless the duct work was designed to operate with the system you’re putting it, you’ll never achieve optimum output.

      Not to mention that below 30 degrees heat pumps use an abundance of electricity to operate.

      1. “Then you have to realize that unless the duct work was designed to operate with the system you’re putting it, you’ll never achieve optimum output.”

        Exactly.

      2. These people have a need to make everyone do as they say… logic not required.

      3. Brian Leeper Avatar
        Brian Leeper

        It isn’t quite true that below 30 degrees heat pumps need the aux heat (which is what I’m assuming you are referring to).

        Assuming (big assumption) that the house is insulated and air sealed well, heat pumps shouldn’t require aux heat until 15F or less.

        Your typical Northern Virginia home is neither well insulated nor air sealed. It’s more important to make them look impressive.

        I strongly doubt that the houses in the rest of the state are any better.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          Your assumption is pretty standard as far as I’ve seen. That aux heat is used a good bit from my experience, even in houses built in the 2000’s.

          It gets even worse when any number of the yahoo’s who call themselves HVAC repairmen don’t install stuff properly.

          1. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            Yes, I wonder how many of these HVAC hacks around here even know what a Manual J is, let alone how to do one!

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            I don’t think they have much knowledge past, you’re refrigerant is low.

          3. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            Or, “your system is shot and you need a new one”

            (when it just has a bad contactor or capacitor).

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            We recently had to replace one of our systems. It was needed as the unit had a leak and was an R-22 unit from 2003.

          5. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            I’d say you got the money’s worth out of it if lasted almost 20 years.

          6. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Someone got their monies worth, we just moved into the house in 2019 haha.

            We ended up replacing it with a Trane dual stage.

        2. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Nor well built. Va is a right to work state and hiring little Johnny to drive nails and cut wood results in crappy houses.

          1. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            It’s also questionable when little Johnny’s cousin happens to be the building inspector…

        3. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Every new house down our way is covered in house wrap. That goes a long way towards sealing the house even if they are using cheap materials inside. HVACs now, because of laws and regulations are far more efficient than they used to be. I’d be surprised if the average house today is less efficient that prior. We’ve lived in houses that did not have house wrap and sufficient insulation in the attic and thermopayne windows and you DO know when the wind is blowing!

          1. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            My house not only has house wrap, I went up into the attic and sealed the top plates. Apparently, few builders do that. I don’t understand why. It doesn’t take that much work if it’s done before the insulation is put in.

            https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/mind-the-gap-air-leakage-at-the-top-plates/

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Don’t forget the practice of dual zoning houses and sticking an air handler in the attic.

            At lot of the practices used by commercial builders which inspectors then okay because VA building codes suck are questionable.

          3. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            A report I read said that installing an air handler in the attic can increase the cooling requirements of the house by as much as 6k to 12k BTUs…

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Especially when said attic isn’t properly vented which also bakes your shingles from the inside out.

            There is also the practice of huge two story foyer’s in houses that just bred humidity.

          5. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            Yes–two story foyers, vaulted ceilings, and bay windows. Three features that serve to waste energy but thankfully have gone out of style.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Anything that adds labor costs…. that the lack of cannot be seen….. 😉

          7. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            I’d have thought that with the now-required blower door testing for air leakage that they would do that, but apparently they can get passing results without it.

    2. Paul Sweet Avatar
      Paul Sweet

      Gas or oil heat puts out hotter air than a heat pump, so you need to move more air with a heat pump to get the same amount of heat from the furnace into the house.

      If you try to push more air through the ducts than they were designed for it will get very noisy and the fan will use more electricity.

      If you install the largest heat pump that the existing ducts are sized for the supplemental (electric resistance) heat will be needed at a higher temperature. Pay for new ducts now or more electricity later.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        Thanks for that explanation. It actually makes sense. I need to have that looked at on my system. Not because I changed over from gas to heat pump but more because we put on a small added space and I am not sure the air handler and duct work is matched to the space properly – I know who did the work and my confidence that they did it properly is simply not there.

    3. Brian Leeper Avatar
      Brian Leeper

      A lot of low-end crappy[1] CD Hylton houses in PWC have boilers and radiators for heat. Apparently it never occurred to them that someday people might want air conditioning in them. So it’s either spend a bunch for ductwork for central AC, or use a bunch of window units, or use a mini-split.

      Same considerations apply if you wanted to go to a heatpump.

      [1]The sort of houses that in any other metro area would probably have been razed and replaced with an office building by now.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        Now you are talking adding AC to a house that did not have it which I agree requires new duct work. For radiant heat, no new duct work is needed to shift from water (with a gas boiler) to electric. Just change out the baseboard.

        1. Brian Leeper Avatar
          Brian Leeper

          Yes, and then use 100% efficient electric resistance heat as opposed to 200% – 300% efficient heat pump heat.

          Electric baseboard heat is nothing more than a glorified electric space heater, and costs just as much to run.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            yes, but if one heats only one room that way verses the whole house… ??

          2. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            I tried that in my old house. The cost increase on my electric bill was NOT offset by the savings on the gas bill.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          I think you talked about a geo-thermal system in your house. I for one would like to hear more about your house in terms of the energy savings.

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I installed a solar residential hot water system like 20 years ago and at the same time a Water Furnace ground coupled heat pump. First thing I did though was add extra insulation in my attic spaces and changed out my old single paned windows with doubles. That helped seal up my house (although it still can leak like a sieve).

            Solar hot water can save about 15% of you r total electric bill. In terms of ground-coupled heat pumps, the relative efficiencies really kick in as we hit the coldest and warmest air temperatures. I have no data from before installation but I can tell you that in 20 years, my system has never to my knowledge needed emergency heat to meet demand. It is far more comfortable than the standard heat pump to boot. The system I own is a Water Furnace. Supposedly I can heat hot water with an additional unit add-on as well. I have never had the need to do so.

            I had one significant breakdown of the system and it was shortly after the original warrantee expired. Water Furnace honored the warrantee anyway and provided a brand new unit for free. A top notch company, in my opinion.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            the hose/pipe into the soil – horizontal or vertical? Ever fail?

          3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            A vertical closed loop system and nope. No issue on that side of the compressor at all.

  3. A while back I lived in a VEPCO gold medallion home where the plaster ceilings were equipped with radiant heat, wires run in the ceilings whose job it was to heat the upper atmosphere in the room and force it down to the living space. I almost went bankrupt until I figured out the system, which is to transfer money from our bank account to theirs.
    I have gas appliances and am very happy with the cost and quality of the creature comforts. The Green Meanies want you to think that someday, after they have used up all the farmland, killed all of the shorebirds and used multiple tons of rare earth minerals they will be able to supply everyone with ‘green energy’, possibly but I don’t feel like being the beneficiary/victim of their theories.

  4. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Fear Porn! 😉 Anyone remember the big hoo haw over the Ozone holes and air conditioning refrigerants?

    Here you go – from the usual suspects: Competitive Enterprise Institute

    “THE HIGH COST OF COOL THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THE CFC PHASEOUT IN THE UNITED STATES Ben Lieberman June 1994

    Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) are an important class of compounds. They have an impact on the life of nearly every American. Yet, as a result of environmental fears, their production will soon be eliminated -by the year 1996. In making this decision, little consideration was given to the costs of eliminating such a widely used class of compounds over a relatively short period of time.This study examines the probable economic cost of the CFC phaseout on the refrigeration and air conditioning sector in the United States. The estimated cost of the CFC phaseout is $44.5 to $99.4 billion over the next decade.”

    This is pretty much what too many Conservatives can’t seem to help themselves from doing every time there are necessary efforts to reduce/eliminate pollutants that are harmful to people and earth.

    We do need to phase out gas OR develop gas appliances that do not emit Co2 similar to how we have handled auto emissions and other toxic and harmful substances that need to be reduced or eliminated.

    1. from that fear tactic we got R134a and my ac hasn’t worked properly since.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        well sure… just like gasoline hasn’t worked right ever since they took the lead out … right?

        1. Gasoline does work better with lead and your engine lasts longer but burning lead does have health implications that over ride those considerations.
          The ozone hole comes and goes as it pleases, affected more by sunspots than human intervention. But it does make a convenient boogie man for globalists.

          1. Gotta go to work Larry, chat later, have a great day

          2. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            Many vehicles go to the junkyard with a perfectly running engine, because the rest of the vehicle wore out around it.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You would have never known that about lead if you listened to the “anti” folks way back when the ban was proposed.

            It’s the same old same old, the same “anti” folks with the same lame arguments that they lose and the ban takes place, then later on they change their tune and say the ban was needed.

            The anti-folks are always a day late and a dollar short on pollution issues… and if we listened to them, we would not have done what needed to be done.

            It’s an old story with the same plot.

          4. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            By the way, Ethyl Corporation is headquartered in Richmond, Virginia. If you aren’t familiar with them, their main product is tetraethyllead–the lead additive for gasoline.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            AND still in business!

          6. Old engines work better and last longer with lead in the gas. Modern engines are designed with hardened surfaces on the valves and valve seats so that they no longer need the protective coating lead used to offer.

            If you like antique vehicles, though, you need to consider upgrading the cylinder heads and valves when doing a rebuild.

      2. Brian Leeper Avatar
        Brian Leeper

        Are you referring to a vehicle that was converted from R12 to R134A (which would be over 25 years old now…) or a vehicle that left the factory with R134A?

        There is no reason why a vehicle designed to use R134A shouldn’t work properly.

        Conversions can be more iffy, but they can be made to work properly, but the knowledge required may exceed the capabilities of the average mechanic.

        For example, you may need to add an electric pusher fan in front of the radiator to supplement the mechanical fan, or upgrade to parallel-flow condenser, or both.

        In some cases you may need to upgrade the compressor, because some compressors are known to fail due to the higher pressures of R134A.

    2. CO2 is a harmful emission?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        indeed – worldwide consensus that it is … despite the usual skeptics…

        1. O…K well you tell that to the trees and stop breathing
          You people and your ‘worldwide consensus’… didn’t your mother ever tell you that following a crowd can lead you off a cliff?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            No cliffs, we have a long history of banning harmful substances – as far as I can remember, not a single one did we screw up and had to “un-ban”. Right?

          2. CO2 is a harmful substance? consensus aside that is.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            determined by legitimate science to be so just as that same science determined other substances that were banned and not a single one “un-banned” later ….

    3. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Neglecting, of course, the efficiency of R410(?) 21 seer versus the R12 14 seer AC unit.

  5. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    One HUGE difference between a heat pump and a gas furnance is that I can go to Bed, Bath & Beyond to buy a $20 digital meat thermometer, and to ACE Hardware to buy a garden hose and filters, and assess and maintain the operation of my heat pump. In 15 years, it has required cleaning of the compressor twice a year (the garden hose) and twice a year reading of the ambient vs evaporator box temperature (meat thermometer) to know if service is required.

  6. If you’d written this column two years ago, I would have said you were crazy. I no longer find your scenario implausible. After all, if the world faces an existential crisis… if humanity is literally in peril… no cost is too great to bear. And then, of course, there’s the fact that some people just love telling other people how to run their lives.

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      There is no existential crisis. The Roman Era was WAAAAY hotter than this. And it has been more than six years since the satellites measured any increase in global temps — the Great Pause That Is Never Reported.

      But…you don’t think anybody at Dominion thinks this is a bad idea, do you? 🙂

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Sez you, scientist extraordinaire.

  7. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Steve is still upset because Richmond codes don’t allow him to dump his chamber pot out the window anymore.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      How Conservatives react to environmental issues and regulation is as predictable as the day is long.

      Of course, after they lose, and the benefits of the regulation become apparent, they claim they were always for it!

      1. It’s interesting that you so easily and casually link “issues” with “regulation”.

    2. Brian Leeper Avatar
      Brian Leeper

      Depending on where you are in Richmond during a storm, when you flush your toilet, you might as well be dumping your chamber pot out the window.

      Combined sewage overflows…

  8. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    How short some memories are: July 11, 2011

    ” Under a “Bring Back the Bulb” banner, Republicans in the House of Representatives will debate legislation on Monday to roll back energy-efficiency standards, thereby permitting Thomas Edison’s original, highly inefficient incandescent light bulb to continue being sold next year.

    But were the bulbs ever actually banned? The bipartisan legislation, passed by Congress and signed into law by President Bush in 2007, sought to boost lighting efficiency and save on energy costs by requiring lightbulbs be more efficient, not by banning any particular style of bulb – part of a long-term government energy efficiency process that has enjoyed both parties’ support for decades. Now, that support is dimming, as “nanny-government” critics complain Americans are so hen-pecked by bureaucrats that they can’t even buy a simple old light bulb.

    “This is about more than just energy consumption, it is about personal freedom,” Rep. Joe Barton (R) of Texas, the new bill’s sponsor, said in a statement earlier this year. “Voters sent us a message in November that it is time for politicians and activists in Washington to stop interfering in their lives and manipulating the free market. The light bulb ban is the perfect symbol of that frustration. People don’t want Congress dictating what light fixtures they can use.”

    “The incandescent light bulb is not being banned, contrary to common misconceptions,” says Randall Moorehead, vice president of government affairs for Philips Electronics North America. “Americans are not being forced to buy compact florescent lights. The only thing people are going to notice about their incandescent light bulb is that their electricity bill is going to go down.”

    Don’t tell that to those who have picked up the light-bulb-ban banner.

    “The American people have voiced overwhelming opposition to the light bulb ban, and the House of Representatives has started to listen,” said Myron Ebell, director of Freedom Action, a group sponsored by the Competitive Enterprise Institute, in a statement. “Freedom Action urges every House member to vote Yes on Rep. Joe Barton’s bill to overturn the ban enacted in 2007 on standard incandescent bulbs.”

    1. Brian Leeper Avatar
      Brian Leeper

      The garage door openers the builder installed in 2017 came with regular incandescent bulbs. I replaced them with LEDs.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          I still have 6 incandescent bulbs in two ceiling fans that are on only when I vacuum the carpet in those two rooms. They came with the house 22 years ago, and I won’t change them because I’m curious as to how long, at 1hr/wk, they’ll last.

          1. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            When I discovered how much fun it was to connect incandescent bulbs to a 1500W metal-halide ballast I very quickly ended up giving all of the remaining incandescent bulbs I had that treatment, which rendered them non-functional.

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Couldn’t you just put them in your garage drop light, plug it in, turn it on, and then “do that”? Same effect, just messier.

          3. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            On the metal-halide ballast, the incandescent bulb glowed an eerie bluish color shortly before the “catastrophic failure”. I suppose, at that moment, it was actually operating as a discharge lamp, although not exactly a “high intensity” one.

            (The flash of white light which preceded the eerie blue glow seemed to indicate that the ballast had blown the filament, and was now arcing between what remained of the filament and/or it’s supports).

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Cool. I really wish I had played more with electricy. All I know about the stuff is I don’t like touching it, and to accomplish any repair just replace the fuse with a piece of buswire, turn it on, and replace whatever catches fire.

        2. Brian Leeper Avatar
          Brian Leeper

          Which is strange because one of the first lighting “upgrade” the 4×4/offroad people do is to replace their halogen headlight bulbs with cheap Chinese-made LED bulbs (which are illegal to import or sell, but there’s no enforcement) and then blind everyone else on the road.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            but not those yokels in farm use pickups, eh? 😉

          2. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            Can’t read the front plate on a vehicle approaching you at night so who knows?

          3. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Those followed after the craze of Xenon HID (High-Intensity-Discharge). Which came in JDM vehicles in the 90’s.

          4. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            I remember that. Aftermarket Xenon HID “upgrades” were not common (at least around here) because the cost was high and it was common knowledge that they are illegal (putting a Xenon HID capsule in a housing designed for a halogen bulb will just blind everyone else).

          5. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Yeah without the projector housing they were a flood light. I had them in a 97 Accord, when they were brand new I could see for a half mile or more.

    2. It is you who have forgotten recent history. Did you notice that the article you posted did not once mention LED lighting? That is because in 2011, LED lighting was in its infancy as far as being truly useful and affordable. The only readily available alternative to incandescent lights were fluorescent lights (and “compact” fluorescents). Fluorescent lights contain trace amounts of mercury. Businesses and governmental agencies are required to dispose of burned out fluorescent lights as as hazardous waste. The disposal cost more than offsets any energy savings realized relative to incandescent bulbs. And some people’s eyes are sensitive to the 60 Hz cycling of fluorescent lighting.

      It was not until good quality, reliable and affordable LED lighting became readily available, from about 2014 on, that the incandescent light bulb became obsolete.

      You can condescendingly repeat the “they were never banned” mantra all you want, but when manufacturers greatly reduce production of a product, and suppliers greatly reduce their inventory of said product, it has essentially the same effect as a ban on said product.

      This conservative abandoned incandescent lighting as soon as an operationally, environmentally and economically viable alternative was available. And as far as I am concerned, if you switched to fluorescents from incandescents when the government told you to, you were environmentally irresponsible.

      1. Brian Leeper Avatar
        Brian Leeper

        And CFLs aren’t good in cold temperatures. They glow dimly until they warm up. It’s fine if you don’t need full brightness right away, like a porch light on a photocontrol, but for something like a garage, you might prefer a bulb that gives you full brightness when you turn it on.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Don’t have to convince me that LEDs are better than CFLs – I had CFLs , they are mostly gone, I can’t bring myself to throw out my unused ones, so I use them in some lamps.

          I’, convinced we’ll see even more breakthroughs on energy-use and will not be surprised if CEI once again opposes such changes, as they have often done.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        “condescension” ? nope.. your own issue again as usual.

        CEI is a conservative think tank that has a long history of being opposed to changes , efficiency standards, banning of toxic or harmful substances, etc… playing the boogeyman game of claiming jobs are the economy are harmed.

        As far as I no, not a single banned product or efficiency standard has been rolled back because it proved to be what CEI claimed it would do.

        I didn’t see recycling of CFLs any worse than recycling oil or anti-freeze or mercury thermometers, etc… just more Conservative fear-mongering.

        1. I didn’t see recycling of CFLs any worse than recycling oil or anti-freeze or mercury thermometers, etc… just more Conservative fear-mongering.

          You can “see” it any way you want. The bottom line is, if your business or government agency is following the law then it is disposing of spent fluorescent bulbs as hazardous waste. The outfits which deal with spent fluorescent bulbs charge between $2.00 and $4.00 per bulb depending upon the size.

          Private citizens can legally throw them in the garbage, but again, that would be very environmentally irresponsible.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            yep, and they charge you to dispose of oil and other also.

            In fact, you pay to dispose of light bulbs, trash and sewage, right?

    1. Matt Adams Avatar
      Matt Adams

      What does biomethane for natural gas powered vehicles have to do with home appliances?

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        A key phrase from the article… “RNG, or biomethane, is a pipeline-quality gas that is fully interchangeable with conventional natural gas…”

        1. Matt Adams Avatar
          Matt Adams

          The key phrase is that your link was only about vehicles.

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            I gave you the key phrase. Sorry you missed it.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            But, you didn’t. You provided an article about Biomethane for use in vehicles that run using NG (CNG or LNG).

          3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Which stated that ” “RNG, or biomethane, is a pipeline-quality gas that is fully interchangeable with conventional natural gas…”

            Don’t be obtuse.

          4. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Minus the whole infrastructure to get it to the customer.

            Do you even know what an NG vehicle is?

            Obtuse, that’s you bro.

  9. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    Thanks for these energy and utility reviews. I was beginning to miss them.

    I am one of those who would not be affected by a ban on natural gas. The house we have owned for more than 30 years has electric baseboard heat. I like it. It is quiet and, best of all, I can control the heat room by room. If we are not going to be using a room, just turn down the thermostat and close the door.

    Please refresh my memory: What happens to the money that Dominion must pay for RGGI allowances?

    1. Brian Leeper Avatar
      Brian Leeper

      Electric baseboard heat is wasteful and inefficient. It is no more efficient than using space heaters.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        but I DO like the idea of zone temperature control. It’s terribly wasteful to heat/cool rooms that are not occupied.

        1. Brian Leeper Avatar
          Brian Leeper

          Turn off your central unit and run a space heater.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            That’s the problem with “central” – We try to close the dampers in some rooms but I’m told that puts a strain on the blower just like super-efficient filters are said to.

          2. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            If the ductwork is marginal to begin with, it probably isn’t a good idea to close any registers.

            Not to mention that on many houses, the ducts are not sealed (it’s now required by building codes as of some time in the last 10 years or so), so closing a register just means that much more duct leakage into the attic, walls, or crawl space.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            You seem to know so I’ll ask. I always thought return registers ought to be in the floor where the cold air sits but in this house and some others I’ve seen, it’s in the attic… where the heat has risen to…

          4. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            If it’s in a heating-dominated climate like Chicago, you want them near the floor. If it’s in a cooling-dominated climate like DC, you want them near the ceiling. If it’s a two-story house they will sometimes split the difference and put the upper floor return near the ceiling and the lower floor return near the floor.

            If your return is in the ceiling it may just be that your air handler is in the attic and that was the easiest way to run the ductwork for the return.

            In a house where the air handler is on the the lower floor or in the basement, they typically run the return air ductwork straight up and down from the top floor to the basement, which allows them to put the return at either the floor or ceiling level as desired.

          5. In a temperate climate like Virginia, you ideally should have a high mounted-register and a low-mounted register attached to the same duct at each return location. You keep the top one blocked and bottom one open in the winter, with the opposite arrangement in the summer.

            My previous house had such a set-up (because I designed it that way) and it worked beautifully.

      2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        It was there when I moved in. There was also central air conditioning. In the 30+ years we have lived here, no maintenance has been needed on the baseboard heating units and only minor maintenance for the air conditioning. I will take inefficient.

        1. Brian Leeper Avatar
          Brian Leeper

          It’s your money. Waste it as you like.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            There is just something about glowing a resistor red to heat your house that is counterintuitive.

            The only radiant heat that I’ve been curious about is the hydronic style that is popular on This Old House.

          2. Brian Leeper Avatar
            Brian Leeper

            A friend of mine lives in Pennsylvania in an old house dating back to the 1700s and it has hydronic heat with a super-efficient gas boiler called a Munchkin. But that was installed after they put natural gas lines in. I think he had a boiler that used heating oil prior to that.

            But boilers seem to be nearly twice as expensive as an equivalent BTU forced-air furnace. Not sure if that’s because not as many are made or they just require more labor and raw materials to build.

          3. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Obviously the boilers and radiators are standard for older building in the NE. I don’t think they are to many This Old House episodes that they don’t have one.

            I think it really depends on the efficiency now. Some of the systems they put in look as complex as wiring, but when done in a good fashion they are pretty to look at.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      We used to have baseboard heat. We still have some of the units but disconnected long ago when we had ductwork put in to air condition the house. We now have a dual-fuel unit that I expect some day will have to be updated with less polluting technology.

    3. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      A couple of things — coastal resilience projects, energy upgrades in low income homes…it’s all in the 2020 bill.

  10. StarboardLift Avatar
    StarboardLift

    88 comments and a single one mentions cooking without gas.

    1. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
      energyNOW_Fan

      Univ of Ca has studied this and have estimated extreme toxicity of gas burning byproducts in the home, killing an estimated several hundred Californians per year. That would translate to thousands of Americans a year. Gimme a break from the extreme chemophobia of our times.

      1. StarboardLift Avatar
        StarboardLift

        Unclear, are you are FOR or AGAINST killing a few hundred Californians annually if it means we can still have gas ranges?

        1. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
          energyNOW_Fan

          I am concerned about extreme fear mongering on the left. But we have an electric stove, because our home here was built around 1980 when gas hookups were banned. However, the former owner did convert to gas heat.

      2. Do Californians know what a range hood is?

        1. Brian Leeper Avatar
          Brian Leeper

          In some particularly “value-engineered” dwellings, the range hood is not vented to the outside.

          1. Nice.

  11. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Well, like everything… grandfather will prevail.

    EPA demands that all replacement, and new, diesels for marine use shall be with ultra-low sulfur, common rail fuel injection “unless it is deemed that physical constraints or modifications limit the use”.

    When I re-engined, the mechanic had to modify the staircase to accommodate the engine computer by removing sound insulation. That would have been sufficient to grandfather my old model engine into the repair and save $2K. But, the old engine used 1.25 gallons per hour, and the new about 1 GPH. DO THE MATH.

    As to a gas furnace, yeah, that’s what I want a Molotov cocktail, CO pump in my garage.

  12. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
    energyNOW_Fan

    One thing to keep in mind, Virginia already has more heat pumps most states. When states like NJ went to oil heat, Va. went with heat pumps.

    That’s why Dominion is so profitable here. That’s why our electric bills are among the highest in the Country, even though our rate per kWhr is not the highest. That why we use more per capita electric than most states.

    That’s why it is harder for us to go to 100% renewable compared to say places like NY or Ma, with nat gas going to their houses. Also they can import power from Canada. The other RGGI states have less need for power generation.

    To put the other RGGI states on the same basis as Virginia, we would need to add in natural gas/oil heating into the mix, and also make them give us some of that low cost hydro power from Canada.

    1. Brian Leeper Avatar
      Brian Leeper

      Your choice in a rural area is either a heat pump, oil heat, or propane heat. Or a dual-fuel setup combining a heat pump with an oil or propane furnace.

      There are lots of places, even in suburban areas, in Virginia where natural gas is simply not available.

      1. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
        energyNOW_Fan

        That is exactly my point.
        Nat gas hookups were banned in the Northeast in the the late 1970’s early 1980’s (due to lack of supply). All of my homes (NJ/VA) were built during the 1980’s nat gas ban. NJ we went mostly with oil heat, Virginia went with more heat pumps. So we already have a fair population of heat pumps in Virginia.

  13. […] The city gas company serves homes, small businesses, and even huge industrial operations.  Those big firms with an industrial process tied to natural gas will simply consider relocating.  Restaurants will need to dump gas ovens.  Residential customers, of course, will need to convert to electric heat pumps and stoves at a substantial costs already outlined in previous Bacon’s Rebellion post. […]

  14. […] This commentary originally appeared August 4, 2021 in the online Bacon’s Rebellion. […]

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