Bacon's Rebellion

Democracy Thrives in Sunlight

Even With a New Name, Community College Can Be Free

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by

Dick Hall-Sizemore
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by Dick Hall-Sizemore

Lost in the discussion of last year’s General Assembly actions and the current discussion of renaming community colleges is the restoration of funding for Governor Northam’s “Get Skilled, Get a Job, Give Back” (G3) program. This program will provide a free community college education for low-and middle-income students enrolled in “high demand” programs.

To be eligible, a student’s family income must be equal to or lower than 400 percent of the federal poverty level. According to the Virginia Community College System, “As a rule of thumb, students could qualify for G3 support if they come from a family of four with a household income of $106,000 per year.” The student must also be enrolled in one of numerous, designated “high demand” programs and taking at least six credit hours per semester. (A list of the high demand programs can be found here.)

G3 program grants cover the “last dollar” (after accounting for any other federal or state financial assistance available) cost of tuition, mandatory fees, and textbooks. In addition, each student in the program will be eligible for a “Student Support Incentive” grant  of up to $900 per semester.

Language added in the 2021 expanded eligibility to include “healthcare workers, first responders and other essential workers …that are serving in the frontline of the COVID-19 pandemic” who “shall…be eligible for programs offered under the G-3 initiative that enhance or upgrade their skills at no cost during the period that is covered under the state of emergency and for two years thereafter.”

The enacted budget includes an appropriation of $34.5 million for the G3 program in the current fiscal year. This program has been the subject of discussion on Bacon’s Rebellion here and here.

Despite their lower costs and the ability to transfer credits to four-year institutions, enrollment in community colleges has been falling in recent years. The last academic year, the year of the pandemic, was no exception. Although people laid off from their jobs due to the pandemic could have used that as an opportunity to get training in new skills, community college enrollment declined by more than 7,000 (5%) to its lowest level since 2002. It will be interesting to see what effect the G3 program will have on boosting enrollment in the upcoming fall semester.

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37 responses to “Even With a New Name, Community College Can Be Free”

  1. Steve Gillispie Avatar
    Steve Gillispie

    Good posting. Thank you.

  2. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Yes. I immediately recalled this when somebody recently asserted it was something Virginia needed to do. Indeed it will be very interesting to see how it plays out, how many take advantage of it. It should surprise no one that community college enrollment suffered in the pandemic, but it needs to rebound. When I went on SCHEV the shipyard vice president in charge of the workforce training, who had himself been on the Community College Board, sat me down and made a strong case for deeper attention and investment in those schools. He was dead right and I did what I could until I was “TMac-ed Off” the board after the next election.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Hmmm, a college graduate currently earns $1.5M more in his career than will a worker who is just a high school graduate.

      $1,500,000.00 x 0.0575 is how much? For every person who forgoes college because they cannot afford the tuition, the State loses that money.

  3. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Free community college? Still can’t afford rent on minimum wage.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      well… this: ” In addition, each student in the program will be eligible for a “Student Support Incentive” grant of up to $900 per semester.”

      heckfire, live with mom/dad or share an apartment with buddies… that’s the way it used to work, no?

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Up to $900/semester… keywords: up to.

        But even $900 is only $300/month or lemme see 300/(2080/12) = $1.73/hr added to minimum wage… still can’t afford rent.

        Hmmm. Wasn’t “borrow from mom and dad” the Romney solution?

        What’s dumber than a dumb Democrat? A smart Republican.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Well, some of us back in the day, worked a full-time job then went to Community College at night and got home at 10pm and started all over at 5am next morning. “self absuse”

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Your mid-70s minimum wage equates to $10+/hr in today’s dollar. So $7.25 + $1.73 and our grandkids are still sucking hind teat.

  4. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Thanks much. With all the hoo haw on other issues, this one slipped below the radar until your post!

    It IS inexplicable to me that enrollment at Community Colleges has been declining – even prior to the pandemic, if I recall correctly.

    With all the talk about “crappy” low-paying jobs, one might think the trend would be headed the other way. Even more so in the economically depressed areas of Virginia, Community College is an essentially stepping stone to a job even if it’s not where the kid grew up It’s how they can escape to a life where they CAN earn a living.

    I do wonder if some kids who graduate from high school , have good enough skills to be successful in community college. There are certainly some school systems where both end-of-course SOLs as well as graduation levels or less than wonderful and I wonder if these kids just don’t feel they can make it.

    Are there remedial programs at the Community Colleges? I know there are in Maryland because when I enrolled many years ago, I was required to enroll in remedial English which did help but I’m sure some notice, it’s way short of good!

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Yes, much of the time in Community College can be spent bringing high school graduates up to speed, which is criminal. As I said, this will be one of those “lead a horse to water” experiments. I worry too few will take full advantage. You will dismiss this as right-wing hogwash, but it is pretty clear to me the national focus is not on getting people to work but on making their lives pretty comfortable without it. Harsh? Just keep watching….

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        I don’t think it’s right-wing hogwash but I do think the right is more readily willing to give up and throw away than stay the course on this and similar issues that are not going to be solved silver-bullet style or even close. It’s a matter of steps, some back, then some forward. Progress but not at all at the pace or outcome desired.

        If the choice is incremental, step-by-step progress and walk away and curse the darkness (and progressives), it’s a no-brainer.

        Too many Conservatives are not willing to deal with the realities, and much more willing to condemn and walk away.

        And public education – Pre-K, K-12 and Community College is where too many Conservatives just pretty much bail altogether.

        This “works” in almost every other developed country – why not here? I bet all those other developed countries are filthy with progressives also, right?

        😉

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          American Exceptionalism is Exceptional Stupidity…
          https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net%2Fproduction%2Fb7a5a938-5cd8-41bd-9c21-3efe995c2619.png?fit=scale-down&source=next&width=700

          Fauci… Carlson… Fauci… Carlson… now who can I believe?

          What’s dumber than a dumb Democrat? A smart Republican.

          1. DJRippert Avatar
            DJRippert

            Apparently, your ability to read and interpret charts is unexceptional. Per your chart, the US is vaccinated at a higher rate than Canada, the European Union, China and India. The UK and Israel have higher rates although the Israelis started earlier and have flattened out over the past four months.

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Check “vaccine availability”. Then, open mouth, insert foot.”

            Leveling at 50% would be exactly what one could expect if IQ is the independent variable in the decision.
            https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/health/2021/05/12/state-vaccination-rates-falling-along-political-party-lines

            Again, what’s dumber than a dumb Democrat? A smart Republican.

          3. Stephen Haner Avatar
            Stephen Haner

            Classic troll move, Nancy…

            And no, Larry, you could not be more wrong and nothing in more important to most of the voter Republicans seek to motivate then education. You and your team are the ones turning them into an ideological battleground (and you’ve gone far enough to lose, finally.)

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Nope. We’re not the ones going apeshit over CRT and related. Go read Sherlocks latest boogeyman post.

          5. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Uh, … never mind.

            Have another cuppa joe, and “edit” is an option.

  5. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    ………
    I don’t know about others posting here, but I do not get notice of responses and comments until a day or two later. I have to directly monitor the thread if I want to see new comments and respond on a timely basis. If you respond to me and I do not answer (and it’s not a personal attack), go to the latest thread and direct me to the other older thread and I’ll track it down. It’s either Disgus or how it is configured that is causing this and I don’t know if everyone is having the same issue.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Nope. It’s Disgust and they notify me immediately. Of course, their focus with my outdated OS 10.3.3 makes it difficult to post.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        not immediately, 12, 24, 36 hours, even on this thread.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          here’s an example, I just now got the email notice:

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b7ee79cef6f7885b2e1ece5146083f8d7be4a80d808fd29dcfce548cf4a50558.jpg

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Oh, I don’t use email notification. I see a little red dot on my Disgust profile page.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            how does that work?

          3. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Don’t know.
            But this is the URL. https://disqus.com/home/inbox/?

            You stay logged in, and have your notifications set to not get email, maybe?

  6. DJRippert Avatar
    DJRippert

    Needless to say, there is nothing free about this. It is simply the transfer of assets from one group to another. One would think that a loan would be more appropriate for a low cost education in a high potential field.

    Also, needless to say – the adults who will get this “free” handout are just another example of infantilism by the state. Once an adult turns 18 there should be no further reference to that adult’s parents’ wealth. The only topic of concern is whether that adult can be lent money with a reasonable expectation of payback.

    For example, an HVAC mechanic (perhaps trained in a community college) averages $57,064 per year in Virginia. Meanwhile, the median per-capita income is $39,278.

    $5,270 is the cost of in-state tuition for the average community college in Virginia. A two year Associate’s Degree would cost $10,540. A 10-year loan in that amount at 4.5% interest would be paid off with monthly payments of $109.23.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      If we used your criteria–“no further reference to that adult’s parents’ wealth”–every student 18 years and older applying to a state four-year school would qualify for financial assistance.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        yep

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        I like it… and it would more than pay for itself in just 10 years of addition income tax revenues.

    2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      Entry salary’s for HVAC is more like $35,000 and average apartment rent in VA is around $825 per month (right about 30% of starting salaries). So with the given that HVAC is well above the state average salary, that $100/month loan payment would likely make all the difference between a successful start to working life (and a contributing citizen over many years) and failure (and maybe being a draw – you think of it as asset transfer – over the long run) for many people.

      Clearly, the investment on our part (which is what it really is) is worth it … that is IF those in need take advantage of it.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        except Conservative types don’t see “investment”, they see “cost” and “income transfer”.

    3. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      “Needless to say, there is nothing free about this. It is simply the transfer of assets from one group to another. ”

      Only in a zero-sum world.

      Repeat from below…

      Hmmm, a college graduate currently earns $1.5M more in his career than will a worker who is just a high school graduate.

      $1,500,000.00 x 0.0575 is how much? For every person who forgoes college because they cannot afford the tuition, the State loses that money.

      I like your example numbers. Assuming a 2-year makes only $750K more over the career, to collect that $10k in tuition, the state risks losing $43K.

      Coincidentally, if the State paid the tuition for your HVAC guy, they collect (57-39)*0.0575 more in taxes, or about $1000 more per year and they’re repaid in 10 years too.

      1. Paul Sweet Avatar
        Paul Sweet

        I wonder how much of the $1.5M difference is due to people with professional and advanced degrees vs. a BA in a low paying field.

        In many cases a community college degree isn’t the end of somebody’s higher education. A lot of people have gone on from community college to get a 4-year degree and even onto graduate school.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Well, therein lies the problem, sorting out the small stuff. But the data is available. Since it’s all lumped in, one can only imagine that a potential doctor who spends his life fixing air conditioners because he couldn’t afford tuition costs the State a barrel in lost tax revenue.

          We could agree to use these numbers
          http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/?level=nation&mode=data&state=0&submeasure=368

  7. Ronnie Chappell Avatar
    Ronnie Chappell

    My problem with this post is the assertion that Community College can be free. Somebody pays. One can argue that funding tuition for some needy students is a good investment for taxpayers. But attendance isn’t free. Instead it involves taking a dollar out of some working Virginian’s pocket and spending it to benefit someone else. It’s what government does. It’s often beneficial. But it ain’t free.

  8. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Personally, I think the idea of 100%”free” (as in zero) tuition is a terrible idea. Everybody should have skin in the game, meaning everyone should be required to contribute at least a modest sum toward his or her own education. But if government has got to be in the wealth-transfer business, reduced-cost community college tuition for demonstrably needed skills is one of the less wasteful ways of going about it. Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, etc.

    Society needs electricians and HVAC techs than it needs women’s- studies or social-justice majors. Technical education is more likely to create productive tax-paying citizens.

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      I think I agree with you. However, one could argue that the “opportunity cost”, i.e. the time spent in class and in studying, when one could have been doing something else (whether it be working, spending time with one’s family, or watching Monday Night Football), constitutes “skin in the game”.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      If someone is a low earner and receives entitlements, then obtains a economically-viable skill that pays enough he does not need entitlements any longer?

      Isn’t that really what K-12 is about? How do we justify K-12 if not that?

      My bet is that there is a direct correlation between nation education level and GDP, no?

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