Slick Selling of Child Gender Transitions at UVa Children’s Hospital

by James C. Sherlock

The University of Virginia Children’s Hospital offers a Madison Avenue-quality sales pitch for child gender transition.

As written and smoothly delivered, it deflects any reservation parents may have in supporting such transitions by telling them they have been misled or are being selfish or both.

It helps parents decide by blaming their reservations on myths.

I offer below both a video and a transcript of that sales presentation.

The presenter uses a variation on the closing technique called the “question close.” In this one she both asks the questions — identified as myths — and answers them. The presentation carefully avoids mention of the word sterilization.

I expect that, given the sensitivity of the subject, it is very likely the best technique for closing the sale. Brilliant even.

If that is your goal.

The reputation of UVa hospital likely will be damaged by this exposure of how it sells this particular product. They have earned it.

Throughout the rest, I add bolding emphasis. The parenthetical statements within the quotations are my own.

Go to For Parents & Caregivers of Trans Youth

First, see the tug on the parental heartstrings followed by soft-pedaling of the medical dangers.

Your Love & Care for Your Transgender Child

(Translation: No question – – your child is transgender.  We treat hundreds of patients a year. The diagnosis is a formality. “Our doctors need this letter in order to treat you, so, we’ll connect you to affirming mental health professionals”.  Affirming. This is only about whether you love him.)

Research shows that transgender teens thrive with support and acceptance. Their mental health improves with affirmation from loving parents and caregivers.

Puberty Blockers

For kids under 18, we offer puberty blockers. These hormones do not alter your child’s sex or cause harm. They do pause the growth of secondary sexual characteristics, like breasts and hair. This gives youth a chance to explore their gender identity. They can do so without the emotional baggage of puberty’s physical changes.

Hormones

We prescribe sex hormones for transgender youth. These help kids who want to look and feel more like their gender identity.

Now you can watch the slick sales video, When Your Child is Transgender.

an outreach coordinator at the Transgender Teen Health Clinic walks us through 5 common myths about parenting transgender teens. She explains how communication, understanding, and respect can help rebuild and strengthen your relationship with your child.

I offer the official transcript of the presentation below. It drips with sales psychology.

Myth # 1 – It’s just a phase. My kid just wants attention.

Teenagers do want attention sometimes. And some of the things that teenagers do as part of their identity development may be a phase. Our experience is that saying that you’re transgender or realizing you are transgender is not often a phase.

And if all your child wants you to do is use the name and pronouns they’re asking you to use, there’s no harm done in doing that. As we go into medical interventions, we do more education about what’s reversible and what’s not. But dismissing it as a phase is not very respectful of your child. Particularly if your child is experiencing a lot of emotional distress around this.

Myth #2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness

Because we do require a gender dysphoria diagnosis that sometimes people consider gender dysphoria a pathology that implies that something is wrong. Gender dysphoria does cause emotional distress that can manifest in anxiety, depression, and suicidal ideation. But gender dysphoria on its own does not signal that somebody is mentally ill.

Myth #3. Puberty blockers and hormones will harm my child and have lasting effects. (There is significant medical evidence that some of the hormones may do harm even beyond sterilization — a word never used — and none have been approved by the FDA for this use in children. But concerns are presented as myths nonetheless.)

I think it’s important to point out that any time you’re introducing medication, there is the possibility for side effects, but often those side effects pale in comparison to the emotional distress that somebody with gender dysphoria is experiencing. Puberty blockers are wonderful because they provide sort of a break, and their effects are reversible.

When someone starts cross-sex hormones like estrogen and testosterone, some of the effects of those medications are not reversible. Which is why we proceed cautiously and slowly when prescribing them. And we generally start with low doses.

Myth #4. Supporting my child would mean I approve of gayness and it would go against my religion. (Religion placed squarely in the myth-to-be-overcome category)

I hear this one a lot too, and often when I try to delve in what’s behind this statement, I find a lot of fear that they’re experiencing based on what they’ve been told by other family members or members of a faith community. And I point out to them that there are a lot of religious denominations who don’t have any problem with somebody identifying as LGBTQ+, and that they need to decide what is most important for their own child or children. A lot of our parents who are initially non-supportive become much more supportive once they see how well their children do when they’re able to be their true selves.

Myth #5. I am losing my child

One of the things that I gently try to point out to them is they’re making it about themselves and not about their child. (Gently telling parents they are selfish)

I can understand them perhaps feeling that way, and that may be something they can share with a therapist or a close friend, but it’s not an empowering message to convey to their children. These kiddos not only survive, but thrive. And I think the more affirming and empowering the messages they get from their parents, the better they’re going to do. (Kiddos – nice touch for humanizing the discussion)

Bottom line

.

The closer plays on the emotions of the customers, parents, by presenting hormone treatments as gifts without which their children cannot “thrive.”

Puberty blockers are wonderful. They provide sort of a break.

Pity the child who gets left out. Like failing to catch the Good Humor truck.

But I have to say, given the topic and the customers, it is a great sales pitch. Mad Men quality.

Some will point out that the endocrinologists who do this are creating lifelong patients.  Transitioned children, men and women will need estrogen or testosterone for the rest of their lives.  Medically transitioned children have to be carefully handed off to an adult system of hormone maintenance. Many are sterilized by the treatments.

None of this is in the hard sell by UVa.

The staff who do this are clearly true believers.  They are smart, and this is how they have chosen to practice medicine.  There are too many people who are sure to despise them for what they do to choose this path lightly.

But even believing the procedures are a boon to mankind, selling them this way is wrong.  Snake oil comes to mind.  Additional undercoating.

UVa Hospital should be ashamed of itself. Even if they think they should provide this “service,” they deserve criticism for selling it like a used car.

I hope Virginia, which already requires a court order for surgical sterilization of children, extends that law to cover this procedure, which often leads to medical sterilization.

UVa Children’s Hospital should never have designed this cynical, insulting sales pitch, much less put it on video to welcome parents to child gender transformation.  It can either be a child health care facility or whatever this sales pitch represents.

The leadership will need to pick one.

Updated Sept 25 at 14:58


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108 responses to “Slick Selling of Child Gender Transitions at UVa Children’s Hospital”

  1. As more of this diabolical mutilation comes to light, hospitals are deleting their internet evidence of such…… see UCSF. VANDERBILT. BOSTON CHILDRENS, etc….. let’s see what UVACH does….

    1. killerhertz Avatar
      killerhertz

      Monsters. They should all be tossed in the woodchipper

  2. LesGabriel Avatar

    “we do require a gender dysphoria diagnosis.” Does this require a second opinion. Is this diagnosis done at UVACH? Is it requested by the teen or the parents? This appears to be another instance of an insistence on “Choice” to do with one’s body what one wishes, although in this case complicated by the fact that one is a minor who by law cannot make such decisions and by the fact that neither the parents nor the teen are provided with all of the information needed to make an informed decision.

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      No. It does not require a second opinion. And, as I told Dick, the teen gender clinic offers in print to arrange for the diagnosis.

    2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      No. It does not require a second opinion. And, as I told Dick, the teen gender clinic offers in print to arrange for the diagnosis.

    3. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      What is the basis for your assertion that “neither the parents nor the teen are provided with all of the information needed to make an informed decision?” What is presented in this article is a transcript of a video discussing myths about transgender treatment. It does not purport to be a substitute for meetings and in-depth discussions between doctors and teens with their parents.

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        Are you seriously not disgusted by this hard sell?

      2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        I have looked in vain for where I wrote that. Point me to it.

        1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
          Dick Hall-Sizemore

          My comment was directed to LesGabriel.

      3. vicnicholls Avatar
        vicnicholls

        The above statements Dick.

  3. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    Here is a key statement that you overlook, or purposely leave out: “we do require a gender dysphoria diagnosis.” Therefore, this “sales pitch” as you call it is not intended to convince parents that their child is transgender. That diagnosis has been made. This presentation is intended to let parents know what they can do for their child, rather than disown him or her.

    I don’t understand why you are so opposed to teens getting help in dealing with their gender dysphoria unless you feel, contrary to a vast number of psychiatrists and psychologists, that such a condition is not legitimate or is not real.

    1. Hmmm. Is there any discussion on the website about the medical pros, cons, and risks associated with gender transition treatments and surgeries? Is there any acknowledgement anywhere that a not-insignificant percentage of those who have undergone treatments and surgeries have come to regret it?

      I wonder if the UVA hospital has found that treating transgenders is good, profitable business — as journalist Matt Walsh exposed at Vanderbilt?

      UVa is a public institution, hence internal documents are discoverable under FOIA. Someone should dig up the profit/loss statement for transgender procedures at UVa Hospital. Walter Smith — are you reading this?

      1. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        The website info is info, not a prescription ad listing side effects or ingredients. It is an invitation to explore a sensitive issue. It does not compel any viewer. Y’all know well even not for profit hospitals rarely lose money on services. Does the BR website offer discussion on its content? The risks to woke folk of being called names, insulted? Any acknowledgement that commenters have regretted a visit to BR? George Soros—are you reading this?

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          No sales pitch compels any viewer.

          You wrote: ‘‘Invitation to explore a sensitive issue?”

          It is a high pressure sales pitch. I highlighted the pressure points for you. It is a no holds barred threat to parents about what will happen to their child if they don’t sign him up.

          So what does your comment have to do with the actual video that we have watched as opposed to your description of it?

          1. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            “No sales pitch compels any viewer.” High pressure or low pressure. “No holds barred threat” which cannot compel any viewer. You highlighted what offended you. How do your contradictory statements inform anyone?

      2. vicnicholls Avatar
        vicnicholls

        Can anyone ask?

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Yes.

          1. vicnicholls Avatar
            vicnicholls

            I did – and it seems the link isn’t correct. https://universitycounsel.virginia.edu/foia/request-records

    2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Actually, Dick, if you look closer, you will see that many of the kids they see don’t have a diagnosis. That is why they offer to arrange one. From a local psychologist who is no stranger to the diagnosis.

      Are you really OK with this hard sell?

    3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Dick, I am seriously disappointed.

      You are, as I have pointed out, wrong on the facts of your contention that kids and their parents show up at this clinic with a prior diagnosis of gender dysphasia.

      The entire second paragraph attacks me for something you assume I believe. For which there is no evidence you will ever find. You conflate treatment with off-label drugs, which I oppose for children for this purpose, with help with psychological problems, which I strongly encourage.

      Stop it.

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        So, how do you propose that a parent proceed with a child who strongly feels that he or she is trapped in the wrong gender body? Wait until the child attempts suicide, or even worse, actually commits suicide?

        https://news.arizona.edu/press-release/suicide-risk-transgender-teens

        https://www.pitt.edu/pittwire/features-articles/study-transgender-teens-suicide-risk-higher-cisgender-peers

        https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/

        1. According to a 30-year long Swedish study those how undertook sex change as a kid are 19 times more likely to commit suicide… far greater than those who do not.

          1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            Can you provide a link to that study?

        2. vicnicholls Avatar
          vicnicholls

          Word you state is C H I L D. There is a long history and good solid reasons for not giving in.

        3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Ah, the suicide card. It is meant as the trump card in this conversation.

          You have to ask yourself how humans dealt with this for thousands of years.

          If a child is suicidal, parents should love him and today get him mental health support.

          Sterilizing him to make him feel better has a downside.

          And get him off the internet and find him a new school if necessary to change his environment.

          Just be a good parent.

          The child transgender endocrinology cabal needs to face legal sanction.

          You may not know that every time they transition a child, they create a lifelong endocrinology patient. Transitioned men and women need hormone maintenance treatments for the rest of their lives. Not an accusation, just a fact.

          Medicare and Medicaid both pay those bills. Maintenance treatments are paid by the government insurance programs at rates of $100 a month for the medical tech,, $100 a month for the hormones. Adjusted for inflation.

          Transition treatments that require direct physician involvement are inevitably reimbursed at a far higher rate.

          Commercial insurers pay more. Often much more.

          UVa advertises they start the hormone transition doses low and build them up over time. With physician supervision. Not an accusation, just an observation.

          Any thoughts on why the Endocrine Society is the most radical of the American physicians groups on the subject of ‘support” for child transitions? I need not wait for an answer.

          All that said, I suspect the staff of that clinic are true believers. They know a lot of people are going to despise them for what they do and do it anyway. Certainly brave. And principled as they see it.

          That doesn’t make it acceptable in my view, but they could find another way to practice medicine if they were just in it for the money.

          1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            “The suicide card”? Is that how you view the possibility of suicide? Do you deny that suicide or attempted suicide is higher among those with gender dysphoria?

            Humans dealt with this for thousands of years by committing suicide, living in the shadows, or suffering severe depression.

            “If a child is suicidal, parents should love him and today get him mental health support.” That is what a diagnosis of gender dysphoria is–mental health support. But, once that diagnosis is made, should not the parents seek out what treatment–medical or mental–is available?

            “You may not know that every time they transition a child, they create a lifelong endocrinology patient. Transitioned men and women need hormone treatments every month for the rest of their lives.” So do individuals with Graves disease who have their thyroid gland removed surgically or zapped through radioactive iodine therapy. Are you suggesting that endocrinologists should not recommend this treatment because the patient will then need to take hormone treatments for the rest of her life and see an endocrinologist on a regular basis?

            “UVa advertises they start the hormone transition doses low and build them up over time. With physician supervision.” Sounds like a conservative, responsible approach.

            Just because it is not “acceptable” in your view does not make it legally or even ethically wrong. A parent of a teen who is experiencing the effects of gender dysphoria would probably not find your opposition acceptable.

          2. vicnicholls Avatar
            vicnicholls

            The “I’ll kill myself if I don’t get what I want” is only a further extension of I’ll throw a tantrum until I do. Kids never told no … nor do I see honesty in all the outcome of not telling kids no orgasm, no waiting for them to get out of that phase (like they did in years past) or going after the school people or the like who talked them into it.

          3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            Diagnosis is diagnosis. Mental health support is another level of care post diagnosis and you know it.

            I am suggesting, which you are also aware, that endocrine treatment of gender dysphoria be postponed until the child reaches the age of majority.

            As one of those pesky side effects, the course of cross-gender hormone treatment can and often does result in sterilization, which may only be done to a child surgically in Virginia under a court order.

            I recommend that at a minimum that Virginia’s § 54.1-2975. Sterilization operations for certain children incapable of informed consent banning surgical sterilization of children and adolescents without a court order be updated to include medical sterilization.

            Once they are adults, they can make whatever decision they want.

            I strongly support parental and psychological care until that point.

            Finally, this blog is by definition about our views, Dick. Yours and mine. This is mine.

          4. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “I am suggesting, which you are also aware, that endocrine treatment of gender dysphoria be postponed until the child reaches the age of majority.”

            On another thread, it was determined that Virginia law allows a parent and child (as young as 14) to refuse medical treatment if they agree it is in the best interest of the child. Why should they not be able to do the same thing in seeking treatment?

          5. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “I am suggesting, which you are also aware, that endocrine treatment of gender dysphoria be postponed until the child reaches the age of majority.”

            On another thread, it was determined that Virginia law allows a parent and child (as young as 14) to refuse medical treatment if they agree it is in the best interest of the child. Why should they not be able to do the same thing in seeking treatment?

          6. James McCarthy Avatar
            James McCarthy

            Aye, it is a view —- only.

          7. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            “Ah, the suicide card….”

            And you all wonder why Conservatives are labeled as deplorable….

          8. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            It is used in an attempt to end all discussion. Not gonna work.

          9. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Having what you think is a good excuse for being deplorable does not make you less deplorable, you know…

          10. James C. Sherlock Avatar
            James C. Sherlock

            Thanks as usual, Hillary.

          11. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Well, in this case it appears that she was spot on…

  4. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    There is a suggestion in these comments that UVaCH would misdiagnose a teenager for the purpose of enticing the parents of that teenager to agree to expensive surgery. That is a serious accusation. I would advise anyone suggesting that to have some solid grounds for it.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Or a really, really good lawyer.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        I think I will forward a link to this article to the clinic and back it up with a snap shot in case BR decides to take it down… does seem like some pretty serious accusations are laid out here…

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          The Captain began his “career” in medicine with an attack on the hospital in Danville after many, many minutes of study. They swatted back at him. Undeterred, he studied more, and more minutes and conferred upon himself a degree in medical administration.

          Maybe, one of UVa’s less humorous lawyers will be willing to swat too. Suggestions of medical malpractice without solid evidence could border on the libelous. We could ask Alex Jones.

        2. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          The Captain began his “career” in medicine with an attack on the hospital in Danville after many, many minutes of study. They swatted back at him. Undeterred, he studied more, and more minutes and conferred upon himself a degree in medical administration.

          Maybe, one of UVa’s less humorous lawyers will be willing to swat too. Suggestions of medical malpractice without solid evidence could border on the libelous. We could ask Alex Jones.

        3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          I already sent one to the Board of Visitors.

    2. vicnicholls Avatar
      vicnicholls

      Pretty obvious they do it – since they’re not the only ones.

    3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      This conversation, like the UVa teen gender center, is not about surgery. They don’t offer it. It is a child endocrinology clinic.

      Don’t get me wrong. It is child mutilation, but medical. Not surgical. One of the drugs often used has an on label use for chemical castration of sex criminals.

    4. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      I just read the comments, Dick. You appear to be the only one to mention surgery.

      This conversation, like the UVa teen gender center, is not about surgery. That clinic doesn’t offer surgery. It is a child gender transition endocrinology clinic.

      Don’t get me wrong. It is child mutilation, but medical. Not surgical.

      One of the drugs often used has an on label use for chemical castration of sex criminals.

      1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
        Dick Hall-Sizemore

        You are correct. I jumped the gun on surgery. However, the comment still is valid. The suggestion is that UVaCH would misdiagnose a child in order to entice the parents into agreeing to expensive endocrine treatments. That is still a serious charge.

        1. vicnicholls Avatar
          vicnicholls

          and pretty obvious to others.

        2. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Again. UVaCH does not perform gender dysphoria diagnoses. They farm them out.

          “Our doctors need this letter in to treat you, so, we’ll connect you to affirming mental health professionals”. https://childrens.uvahealth.com/services/transgender-youth-health

          Affirming (wink).

          The clinic staff, as I wrote, are true believers. They want to transition children to another gender. That is how they have chosen to practice medicine.

        3. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Again. UVaCH does not perform gender dysphoria diagnoses. They farm them out.

          “Our doctors need this letter in to treat you, so, we’ll connect you to affirming mental health professionals”. https://childrens.uvahealth.com/services/transgender-youth-health

          Affirming (wink).

          The clinic staff, as I wrote, are true believers. They want to transition children to another gender. That is how they have chosen to practice medicine.

        4. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Again. UVaCH does not perform gender dysphoria diagnoses. They farm them out.

          “Our doctors need this letter in to treat you, so, we’ll connect you to affirming mental health professionals”. https://childrens.uvahealth.com/services/transgender-youth-health

          Affirming (wink).

          The clinic staff, as I wrote, are true believers. They want to transition children to another gender. That is how they have chosen to practice medicine.

  5. Everyone involved in these programs needs to be in prison for life. There is no possible redemption for those who mutilate children for cash – and let’s be perfectly clear here, well beyond the ideological motivation, it’s the cold hard cash that is the primary driver of this phenomenon.

    The entire practice is akin to human sacrifice. It cannot be tolerated in a civilized society.

  6. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Somebody needs psychiatric assistance and it is NOT those in the subject of this story.

  7. Questions:

    1- what is the downside of waiting until a person is 18/21 before performing surgery/hormone replacement?

    2- What evidence is there that the medical profession’s treatments actually are effective? Other than their own hubris and possibly self-serving claims.

    3- What is the downside to the patient of a wrong diagnosis, and what remedy does he/she have?

    4- At what age does a child become able to overcome peer pressure and liberal indoctrination, so we are sure they are making the decision based on their true circumstances?

    5- What safeguards will be imposed to make sure that radically liberal parents don’t force their child into something they, the parents, want to prove their liberal creds?

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      1. In my opinion, surgery, such as a double mastectomy, should be delayed until the individual is at least 18 and, possibly, older. As for hormone treatments, a downside of waiting until a child is 18 is an increased risk of depression and suicide. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31886068/

      2. I am not sure what you mean by “effective”. The puberty blockers work and the use of “sex” hormones–estrogen and testerone–have their intended effects.

      3. The downside of a wrong diagnosis can be serious, as it would be for many medical and mental conditions. That is why it is prudent to start with puberty blockers, if possible, in order to give the child and parents time to evaluate feelings of gender dysphoria. Those treatments can be stopped if the child and/or parents discover that the gender dysphoria is not a valid diagnosis. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075

      4. The age at which a child can overcome indoctrination of any kind, conservative or liberal, will differ with the child.

      5. This one is a doozy. I gather that you don’t agree with some commenters on this blog that the child “belongs” to the parents or with Governor Youngkin’s frequent reference to Sec. 1-240.1 of the Code of Virginia, which says: “A parent has a fundamental right to make decisions concerning the upbringing, education, and care of the parent’s child.” Or, perhaps, you believe that applies only to “conservative” parents and not “radically liberal parents”?

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        ” That is why it is prudent to start with puberty blockers, if possible, in order to give the child and parents time to evaluate feelings of gender dysphoria. Those treatments can be stopped if the child and/or parents discover that the gender dysphoria is not a valid diagnosis.”

        That is not exactly the same thing as saying, as was said in the video,

        “Puberty blockers are wonderful. They provide sort of a break.”

        Let’s look at the evidence.

        The interim report of the ongoing Cass Review (of transgender clinics in the U.K. concluded:

        “At this stage the Review is not able to provide advice on the use of hormone treatments due to gaps in the evidence base. Recommendations will be developed as our research programme progresses.”

        The distance between those findings and the hard sell at UVa is more than an ocean.

        Please note that the FDA has put a new warning label on puberty blockers because six minors developed severe brain-related symptoms after taking them.

        The children reportedly experienced pseudotumor cerebri, in which increased pressure inside the brain leads to symptoms that mimic brain tumor symptoms. Such symptoms include eye paralysis, headache, vomiting, optic nerve swelling, and vision disturbances in which patients see lights that do not exist.

        More from Children’s Hospital St. Louis, which offers puberty blockers for child gender transition:

        Possible long-term side effects of puberty blockers:

        Lower bone density. To protect against this, we work to make sure every patient gets enough exercise, calcium and vitamin D, which can help keep bones healthy and strong. We also closely monitor patients’ bone density.

        Delayed growth plate closure, leading to slightly taller adult height.

        Less development of genital tissue, which may limit options for gender affirming surgery (bottom surgery) later in life.

        Other possible long-term side effects that are not yet known.

        Possible short-term side effects of puberty blockers:

        Headache, fatigue, insomnia and muscle aches.

        Changes in weight, mood or breast tissue.

        Spotting or irregular periods (in menstruating patients whose periods are not completely suppressed by puberty blockers).”

        Other than that, nothing to see here.

        “Puberty blockers are wonderful. They provide sort of a break.”

        1. the primary real-world purpose of “puberty blockers” is so pedophiles can get more mileage out of their victims

      2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        “Or, perhaps, you believe that applies only to “conservative” parents and not “radically liberal parents”?”

        As I have pointed out multiple times on this board, that is the position put forward by Youngkin’s model policy – plain and simple…

    2. 1. The child goes through puberty, which can have changes that are irreversible or require surgery. A trans woman may require shaving of the laryngeal prominence (“Adam’s Apple”) once it develops, and nothing can be done about broader shoulders, etc. Trans men develop breasts, et al. With some sports organizations restricting trans participation, this is also important as a child that goes through male Tanner Stage 2, for example, won’t be able to participate in college swimming.

      Surgery prior to 18 is a last resort for extreme dysphoria. This is just logic as some if the surgeries need time for proper development.

      2. There’s been two decades of studies showing that transitioning is effective at reducing dysphoria. Surveys of people who gotten the surgery report an over 90% satisfaction rate: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2017.1326190 .

      3. The downsides depend on what has been done. Some is reversible, some only with surgery, and some not. What we can do for those that detransition is to offer counseling, medical intervention where possible, and support as best we can. To learn from it and do what we can do to minimize such situations. It’s why I advocate therapy for children to get an accurate, as opposed to Sherlock wanting “mental health” that simply reaches a desired outcome (“My kid ain’t queer!”). There is a case of a man born with a disfigured penis, and doctors thought it was best to have him raised as a woman and surgically remove it. The result was a miserable life that ended in him taking his own life as an adult. (Sorry, is that still considered the suicide card, Sherlock?) Which is why you don’t force a child down a specific path, but work together to figure out which path is best to take.

      4. Liberal indoctrination is a made-up specter in your head, and transgender peer pressure is a myth from a bad study that only interviewed parents of trans children and not the children themselves. For hormones, 16 or 17 is recommended to drop blockers and move to those, and 18 or older for surgeries except in extreme cases that demand it.

      5. Surgery at any age requires a formal diagnosis. Same with medication. Now, what safeguards are there for the opposite scenario, where parents deny proper treatment for trans kids into to prove their religious cred? Or are “parental rights” only supreme when convenient to your beliefs?

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        “ …where parents deny proper treatment for trans kids into to prove their religious cred?”

        Not in Virginia… heck you can use religion to avoid treating your child for injuries inflicted by the parent himself… Va. Code 18–2-314…

        1. Oh, I’m aware.

    3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      “5- What safeguards will be imposed to make sure that radically liberal parents don’t force their child into something they, the parents, want to prove their liberal creds?”

      And there you have it… the Conservative position that only Conservative parents know what is best for their children and liberal parents and parents of trans children have no rights to make decisions for their children without state intervention. As shown in Youngkin’s model policies, THIS is the Conservative policy position in black and white.

    4. Fred Costello Avatar
      Fred Costello

      You forgot to ask: What makes you think that the psychologists and the hospital are unbiased? (Have they reason to be biased in favor of transitioning?)

  8. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    What are the Most Common Unnecessary Surgeries?

    The most common unneeded operations each year in the U.S. are the following[5]:

    heart stents
    pacemakers
    back (spine) surgeries
    knee and hip surgeries
    hysterectomies
    radical prostatectomy
    gallbladder removal
    Cesarean sections
    tonsillectomies

    https://www.clorelaw.com/insights/unnecessary-surgery-when-the-doctor-gambles-who-puts-up-the-stakes

    That’s a pretty lucrative list. With all of that to choose from, you actually think they’re out to make money from reassignmennt?

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      Okay then, let’s look…

      9000 transgender surgeries
      1 Introduction. There are about 9000 transgender surgeries being performed annually across the United States (US). The latest statistics indicate that 0.6% of the US population identifies as transgender. About 10.9% of medical encounters of transsexualism result in gender-affirming surgeries.

      https://journals.lww.com/cur/fulltext/2021/03000/transgender_surgery___knowledge_gap_among.12.aspx

      So Virginia’s share is ~200 per year.

      1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
        James C. Sherlock

        The clinic in question does not offer diagnoses or surgical procedures. It is a child endocrinology clinic.

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        What percentage of surgeries are unnecessary?
        10-20 percent
        Researchers found that unnecessary surgeries account for 10-20 percent of all operations in some specialties. The report revealed that some patients that undergo unnecessary surgeries are victims of predators that aim to defraud insurance companies for procedures that are not medically justified.
        https://www.gislaw.com › firm-articles
        Report finds unnecessary surgeries plague many thousands each year

        Just spitballing, that’s 20 to 40 “unnecessary”?

        That’s assuming that surgeries are fungilble.

  9. WeAreTheClay Avatar
    WeAreTheClay

    The sneer on Mary Sullivans face when she mentions people of faith is telling. She voices her opinion that people get religious ideas from others and fails to mention that in Christianity, the Bible is very clear on sexuality and gender. That’s where Christians get their beliefs, not from other people.

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Did non-Christians write the Bible?

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        No. It was written in Rome in 400 CE by well-motivated persons.

        1. Some of my Jewish friends are going to be very surprised to hear that.

          1. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            New/Old Do your friends actually call it the “Bible”? I’ll bet not.

      2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        God is a Christian… isn’t She…??

      3. Non-Christians most definitely wrote the old testament. But what difference does that make?

  10. Cassie Gentry Avatar
    Cassie Gentry

    The cloaking of this vile business as somehow OK all revolves around the idea that they don’t proceed without a”diagnosis”, but what’s not said is exactly what a diagnosis entails. And here’s the truth about what a diagnosis is: It’s the rendition of an opinion, and an opinion only, from a “professional” who is an “expert” in whatever’s fashionable in today’s world of psychobabble. They adumbrate the lack of justifying foundation for for their medical malpractice which inflicts lasting and, in the case of “Gender Reassignment Surgery”, irreversible physical mutilation of kids, by using a term like diagnosis which implies some sort of scientific validity to an opinion tendered by someone invested in the practice of transitioning.
    A diagnosis of Diabetes or Hepatitis is a what is meant by the term. What these people are doing is like a priest diagnosing demonic possession. These are the types of people for whom “cancel culture” should be taylor made.

    1. Well said. If the people giving the “diagnosis” are fervent supporters of the transgender movement… if they believe transgender children need “affirmation”… they are more likely to render a positive diagnosis than an objective observer. Admittedly, the same can be said of someone who is a fervent opponent of gender-realignment treatment and surgery. The difference is that the latter does no immediate harm.

      So, what’s the harm in waiting?

      The main concern we hear is that gender-dysphoric children are more likely to commit suicide. That is a valid thing to worry about, but it does not settle the question. It is not a trump card that ends the discussion.

      Anxiety and depression are rampant in our society. Children (and adults, for that matter) suffering depression often threaten suicide. So do distraught spouses whose marriage has broken up or who have lost their jobs. Some make good on their threats. But that doesn’t mean society should do whatever they want. People learn that threatening suicide gives them a power over others. “If you don’t do X, I’ll kill myself. Then you’ll feel really guilty!” Often it works. But sometimes you just have to say, “I’m sorry, but I cannot submit to emotional blackmail.”

      For parents of a child claiming to be transgender, a delicate balancing act is called for. There are no certainties in these kinds of situations, and any decision, no matter how carefully thought out, can be the wrong one.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        “People learn that threatening suicide gives them a power over others. “If you don’t do X, I’ll kill myself. Then you’ll feel really guilty!” Often it works. But sometimes you just have to say, “I’m sorry, but I cannot submit to emotional blackmail.””

        Good god! Do you really believe this stuff? Sorry but trans kids are not saying to their parents “let me transition or I will kill myself!”. Teens don’t just threaten suicide to get their own way… they actually kill themselves with very little warning. But even more disturbing is that you think that IF a child said to their parent “I identify as a different sex and if you don’t let me transition I will kill myself” (which again isn’t what is happening) the parent should say, “I’m sorry, but I cannot submit to emotional blackmail.”. Really… THAT should be the response?? Again… good god!!

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          You really have to work at being deplorable. For them, it comes naturally.

          Would really HAVE TO work HARD. Not saing you do, just saying it would be difficult for you.

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Say what you like about her but Hillary was right on this point, Conservatives these days are truly deplorable through and through. This thread is all the evidence you need.

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Can’t speak for all, but one spent nearly 3/8 of his life wearing exactly the same clothes as his cohorts and saying the same words while living under a code of conduct that went so far as to ban umbrellas. It had to have detrimental effects. And to refer to k-12 as “indoctrination”. SHEESH

          3. Now we know where Shannon Brandt got the idea that murdering Trump supporters was OK.

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Wow! Murder? Or, euthanasia?

        2. Aren’t there responses between the 2 extreme ones your straw man argument presents?

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Straw man? I directly quoted him…🤷‍♂️ Also, what two extremes? I did not offer a suggested response. But, yes JAB’s suggested response was extreme and there are far better options available to parents than his suggestion.

      2. How do you define an “objective” observer? Because your view on transgender medicine seems to be to minimize transgender diagnoses as opposed to maximize correct diagnoses.

      3. Easy decision making for parents of “transgender” children:

        1) if it’s you who encouraged that, turn yourself in for child abuse

        2) if it wasn’t you, call the cops and initiate a criminal investigation to find out who the adults sexually grooming your kid is

    2. the alleged science behind these diagnoses is basically pure fraud conducted through an iterative process of publishing as science-of-record unsubstantiated claims based on unreproducible experiments

      James Lindsay proved this beyond a reasonable doubt.

  11. Can we accept the following propositions?

    1. Yes, there are children who are genuinely gender dysphoric. They are a tiny minority, but their feelings are deeply rooted (either in genes or fetal development) and in a compassionate society they deserve our sympathy and some reasonable accommodation.

    2. The current surge in gender dysphoria is driven also by social contagion. For a variety of psychological reasons, a large number of children — mostly but not exclusively adolescent females — come to see themselves as transgenders as an explanation of their anxiety, depression, or other issues. Elements of our society in schools and the medical establishment today often give affirmation to these feelings.

    3. It is useful to distinguish between children for whom gender dysphoria is likely a permanent condition and those for whom it is a passing phase. While hormonal treatment and surgery might be justifiable for the former, they can be highly damaging to the latter.

    These propositions avoid all the messy talk about specifics — the devil is in the details — but it might help us stop talking past one another if we can agree on a few fundamentals.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      1. Are you stating undisputed facts or your own beliefs?

      2. Even if a “tiny” number, would you deny them access to medical diagnosis and treatment?

      3. Have you considered that there may be MORE transgender that you thought – and they’ve been hiding much like gays used to?

    2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      If you would define what you mean by “reasonable accommodation”, I might be able to accept your propositions.

    3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      “Can we accept the following propositions?”

      Ummmm… nope….

    4. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Propositions containing pejorative phrases like”gender dysphasia is driven also by social contagion” are normative.

    5. Fred Costello Avatar
      Fred Costello

      When the mind does not agree with physical reality (e.g., DNA found in the body), the mind needs fixing, not the body. Would the pro-trans people encourage a person who thinks he is an eagle to fly off the top of a high building?

  12. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    (1,0)? Mais non.
    https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/10/its-intersex-awareness-day-here-are-5-myths-we-need-to-shatter/

    Well, personally speaking, I have reached the opinion that those who obsess on the positions and behavior of others do so out of a fear of their own uncertainties.

  13. Warmac9999 Avatar

    The hula hopes and pet rock craze was a lot less dangerous. Although to be honest you can throw your back out or accidentally hit someone with a rock.🤡

    1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      No need to add the “🤡” signature to your posts… they are self-evident…

      1. Warmac9999 Avatar

        Yes you are.

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          Hey, great retort, “Dr” Warren… 😂🤣😂

          1. Warmac9999 Avatar

            Yes you are..🤡

  14. Just in case it’s not 100% clear

    Every person in Virginia involved in the child sexualization industry

    is going to prison for a long long time

    and this is not a negotiation… there is nothing to negotiate

    we will stop this crime against humanity and make sure every person who is responsible for it does hard time and carries a lifelong sex offender label – if they survive their term in prison, which I understand those who prey sexually on children often do not.

  15. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    It’s about the money. Not the children. The doctors who do this are violating the Hippocratic Oath, but since we threw away Nuremberg Protocols to mandate participating in a medical experiment, what the hey

  16. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    It is so odd that conservative Republicans are obssessed with transgender and youth issues. It is creepy.

    1. killerhertz Avatar
      killerhertz

      It’s odd that progressives want children confused and vulnerable without well-informed parents to guard them from their filthy hands.

  17. killerhertz Avatar
    killerhertz

    Hospitals have a massive fiscal interest in promoting gender transition. There’s huge amounts of money for the surgeries and treatments. https://www.upward.news/gender-transition-clinic-shuts-down-website-after-leaked-video/

    Healthcare is yet another dying industry in the US. COVID-19 was the death nell. These same bureaucrats told children, teens, and young adults to take a largely untested mRNA vax that has now shown to be disproportionately disadvantageous from a risk/benefit analysis. Anyone with a brain questioned their motivations and were silenced. At least these same hospitals will offer treatment for long term myocarditis! Winner winner chicken dinner!

    https://twitter.com/anish_koka/status/1571186794644873217

  18. Chris O'Connor Avatar
    Chris O’Connor

    Google Dr Walter Freeman. The gender dysphoria crowd will someday – I hope – be classified with him as medical lunacy.

  19. Merchantseamen Avatar
    Merchantseamen

    Rush always said “Follow the money.” It is always about the money! They could care less who gets destroyed. Mentally or physically. Even the Gay Community is becoming disgusted with the “Trans movement”. They are trying to get the “T”dropped and distance themselves from this phenomenon.

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